BSF, CRPF and other Paramilitary Forces Discussion

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When a band of 400-odd armed to teeth Maoists crept up the craggy slopes of the bauxite-rich Panchpatmali hilltop in Damanjodi area of Orissa’s Koraput district on the night of April 12, Constable Salim Khan had no idea that it would be one of the longest nights of his life.
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As the rebels, armed with sophisticated weapons like AK-47 Rifles, SLRs, country-made weapons, petrol bombs, grenades and IEDs, launched the biggest-ever Maoist attack in Orissa that evening, they asked Head Constable Amarendra Sarmah and Constable Serbjeet Singh—of the Quick Reaction Team at the CISF fire barrack—to surrender. Sarmah fired at them instead. “He told the rebels that he would rather die,” recalls a CISF jawan. Sarmah and Singh kept firing though the two were heavily outnumbered. Sarmah was blown off when the rebels blasted the door of the barrack with IEDs. When Singh jumped from the first floor of the fire barrack to confront the enemy directly, he was riddled with bullets and died soon after.
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Constable Lalit Kumar, though off duty, took position near the magazine. He was captured by rebels and ordered to hurl grenades at other CISF personnel. When he refused, his hands were tied and a bomb strapped to his body to blow him off.
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The jawans fought with several handicaps—the barbwires around the warehouse had rusted, there were no fortifications and the enforcements did not arrive till almost eight hours after the attack started. By then the 26 jawans at the warehouse had saved Nalco’s cache of 29 metric tonne of industrial explosives—the Maoists could not subdue their raw courage.

Twenty -two of the jawans have been selected for the President’s Police Medal and the Police Medal for Gallantry.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 15 Aug 2009 07:29

Constable Golap Saikia was to come home to his wife and son, but fell fighting Black Widow militants.

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Golap Saikia (27), Constable No. 343 with the 16 Assam Police (IR) Battalion, fell fighting Black Widow militants in the strife-torn North Cachar Hills district.

On April 20, 2009, Saikia was among the nine constables escorting 14 empty trucks from Diyungmukh to a cement factory at Umrangshu, when three of the vehicles were caught in an ambush laid by the Black Widow militants at Lanku. Even as the constables put up a brave fight, the 20-odd militants, eventually gained advantage, killing a civilian driver and five constables.

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Saving the day

Showing exemplary courage on extremely hostile terrain in the “liberated zone” of Maoists, Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) Deputy Commandant Diwakar Tiwari, 31, rescued many of his colleagues trapped in heavy guerrilla ambush before laying down his life on April 10 in the dense forests of Minappa near Chintagufa in the South Bastar region of Chhattisgarh. He had been posted with CRPF 55th Battalion, which was deployed for three years at Dornapal in Dantewada.
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When Assistant Commandant Veer Singh sensed that his ‘area domination party’ was encircled by 400-500 armed Naxals in combat dress—locally known as Jan Militia—armed with traditional weapons, he used his walkie-talkie to seek additional reinforcement. A team of 27 personnel, led by Diwakar Tiwari, swiftly rushed from Dornapal on 11 motorcycles, covering a distance of 37 km.
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As Tiwari took position, he saw Assistant Commandant Shankar Kumar lying injured at a close distance. In spite of heavy firing from the Naxals, Tiwari rescued Kumar, who lay unconscious. As he returned and made an attempt to guide his troops for an offensive action, he was hit by a bullet near his collar bone, which pierced his lungs. He succumbed on the spot. Ten CRPF personnel, including the deputy commandant, died in that incident.
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However, CRPF Samachar, an in-house magazine of the paramilitary force, reported that a private airline refused to carry Tiwari’s body from New Delhi to Lucknow, from where it was to be taken to his home town—Sultanpur. The airline agreed to carry the body only after top CRPF officials intervened. Sadly, things did not end there as his death sparked litigation between his parents and wife over the settlement of his claims.

Cut to the chase

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After verifying its authenticity, Sub-Inspector Kanchan Kumar, 38, along with chowkidar Etwa Swansi and driver Devendra Singh, set out for Birhu Patratoli, 20 km from the station. When they spotted the Maoists on the morning of September 2, 2008, they were greeted with gunfire, but very soon Kumar had them encircled with the support of nearly 500 villagers. “Soon, he overpowered one of the Maoists. After leaving him in my custody, he began to chase the rest,” recalls Swansi.
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Duty takes toll

Belonging to one of the aboriginal tribal communities—for whose cause the Maoists claim to be fighting—Inspector Vinod Kumar Dhurv, 35, in charge of Mohalla police station in Rajnandgaon district of Chhattisgarh, fell prey to Naxalite bullets.
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Dhurv was one of five personnel sent from Mohalla police station to Madanwada. Dhurv was pillion riding on constable Rajnikant Thakur’s motorcycle. At Manpur, they were joined by security personnel from other districts . “Nobody anticipated an attack on the main road,” says a constable who survived. “Twenty-eight security personnel, including the SP, died,” he says.
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So many police officers dead in the fight against Naxalites. The past five years of inaction, and calling them "misguided children" has allowed them to regroup and is now taking a toll on the nation. A police medal and all is forgotten. When will this menace end?

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 15 Aug 2009 13:22

Who are the men in blue in this pic? It reminds of the old uniform of the SPG.

ChandraS · Post by **ChandraS** » 16 Aug 2009 04:09

^ Delhi Police SWAT team. The badge on the commando's left arm looks to be DP.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 24 Aug 2009 02:27

BSF to focus on optimising deployments along border: Srivastava

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 24 Aug 2009 02:57

Dmurphy wrote:Who are the men in blue in this pic? It reminds of the old uniform of the SPG.

For a Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) team, they look too mediocrely equipped - no kneepads, armpads, helmets or visible gas or shock grenades i.e no special weapons. And what is a SWAT team doing outside on road patrol and sanitization duty ? SWAT should be kept as a hidden force, to be unveiled only in cases when terrorists get holed up in a building or when the Delhi Police is in a situation beyond its capability i.e. somewhere where its special tactics are of use.
IMO, it would be rather better to not have an additional force like this (with its distinctive colors and name) , unless we do it right. SWAT teams don't carry AK-47's !

EDITED: On second thoughts, this might not be a SWAT team at all. Delhi Police has a ambitious plan for raising a world-class SWAT team - complete with motion cameras, shotguns and entry tools. LINK

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 24 Aug 2009 08:41

Nikhil T wrote:For a Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) team, they look too mediocrely equipped - no kneepads, armpads, helmets or visible gas or shock grenades i.e no special weapons.

IMHO, In case they ARE SWAT, then they aren't being used for a special tactics mission here, so why all that extra burden?

And what kind of uniform is that? Its the kind thats generally associated with motor mechanics!

VikB · Post by **VikB** » 24 Aug 2009 14:19

Earlier Crime Branch used to be the defacto 'SWAT' team of Delhi Police. In a way the Batla house encounter and 26/11 shock has changed the thinking now.

Btw, I have seen some guards wearing a similar uniform as above with big bold 'COMMANDO' written at Hazi Ali and Siddhi Vinayak in Mumbai recently. Frankly I call them 'guards' because they looked worse (in looks as well as body language) than the local pandu standing nearby. There was nothing 'commando' about them. Even the big bold commando word was looking too much in the face types. Somehow they were also not mixing with the local police around. Could not take a pic but will try next time.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 24 Aug 2009 15:50

VikB wrote:Frankly I call them 'guards' because they looked worse (in looks as well as body language) than the local pandu standing nearby.

I know i'm gonna draw a lot of flak for this, but honestly, the NSGs i've seen till date looked the same way! Listless, unfit, overweight and 'unsmart'. Be it in the person or in the countless pics we saw during 26/11. May be thats why they too a national security 'guards' and not commandos!

In contrast, the Garuds, MARCOS, SPGs, PARAs - they all looked top of the line!

Sorry guys, but i had to get it off my chest.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 24 Aug 2009 19:40

Dmurphy wrote:I know i'm gonna draw a lot of flak for this, but honestly, the NSGs i've seen till date looked the same way! Listless, unfit, overweight and 'unsmart'.

Unless you have a basis for calling them unfit etc, you will get a lot of flak. Underequipped maybe, but listless and unsmart dont cut it my friend.

Drevin · Post by **Drevin** » 24 Aug 2009 19:48

Maybe since its a public place the commandos have to not look too out-of-the-way. In real combat for a known threat the gear would include more protection etc. I think we just have the wrong pictures to know for sure.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 24 Aug 2009 19:57

Dmurphy wrote:
VikB wrote:Frankly I call them 'guards' because they looked worse (in looks as well as body language) than the local pandu standing nearby.
I know i'm gonna draw a lot of flak for this, but honestly, the NSGs i've seen till date looked the same way! Listless, unfit, overweight and 'unsmart'. Be it in the person or in the countless pics we saw during 26/11. May be thats why they too a national security 'guards' and not commandos!

In contrast, the Garuds, MARCOS, SPGs, PARAs - they all looked top of the line!

Sorry guys, but i had to get it off my chest.

Sorry DMurphy, but I will be one of the first to "throw" flak on you. You shouldn't mind, because you are prepared for it, right? You said "unsmart". Well, NSG is for counter-terrorist operations, not for bloody ramp-walking. I wouldn't mind an NSG commando with the ugliest face, as long he does his job well. "Overweight", eh? Well, firstly, post ONE pic of an overweight commando. And then, read about the grueling physical fitness tests they have to go through, before they are given the title of "commando". And even after all that, a commando looks hefty, that wouldn't be "overweight". Same explanation for "unfit".

If NSG commandos were really as useless as you make them out to be, then 26/11 would continued on till 2 weeks. And remember, NSG commandos were involved in over 101 operations in J&K. I would love to know how a bunch of "listless, unfit, overweight and unsmart" commandos performed so commendably against such adversaries.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 24 Aug 2009 21:41

atreya wrote:If NSG commandos were really as useless as you make them out to be

Wow

! where did you get that from? i have no intention of undermining their usefulness or capabilities. It was always about how they looked physically. I was just making my honest opinions known, thats all. And very frankly, they weren't off-the-cuff remarks either, i have photographic proof. And i really dont want to get into a one-on-one argument here on BRF, so i'm not gonna get drawn into one.

Peace.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 24 Aug 2009 21:42

Dmurphy wrote:
Nikhil T wrote:For a Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) team, they look too mediocrely equipped - no kneepads, armpads, helmets or visible gas or shock grenades i.e no special weapons.
IMHO, In case they ARE SWAT, then they aren't being used for a special tactics mission here, so why all that extra burden?

And what kind of uniform is that? Its the kind thats generally associated with motor mechanics!

Dmurphy, that is exactly my point. Don't use them for 'guard' duties ! Tell me , if there was a situation right then , would they first go to HQs to 'weapon up' and then go to the actual scene for their SWAT duties? Its better to have them at a central location where a team would be ready all the time while other's train.

But I do agree with you on the looks aspect. There is nothing commando-looking about them. Someone said they need to 'gel' with the local public - I'm afraid a green bullet-proof army-like vest over a blue-dress would give them away. Better to actually look like a commando. Secondly, they arent supposed to be out like this in public.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 24 Aug 2009 21:52

Nikhil T wrote:Dmurphy, that is exactly my point. Don't use them for 'guard' duties ! Tell me , if there was a situation right then , would they first go to HQs to 'weapon up' and then go to the actual scene for their SWAT duties?

Point taken. Recall the Garuds and the Paras were all equipped with everything, including elbow/knee caps during Aero India 2009 over the entire event cycle.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 25 Aug 2009 20:12

Dmurphy wrote:
atreya wrote:If NSG commandos were really as useless as you make them out to be
Wow ! where did you get that from? i have no intention of undermining their usefulness or capabilities. It was always about how they looked physically. I was just making my honest opinions known, thats all. And very frankly, they weren't off-the-cuff remarks either, i have photographic proof. And i really dont want to get into a one-on-one argument here on BRF, so i'm not gonna get drawn into one.

Peace.

I concede. You didn't say"useless". But I interpreted your comments in that manner. Sorry for that. However, I still feel that even in the looks department, the NSG commandos look mean and tough. Looks are a subjective matter. Lets leave it that.
Peace!

By the way, from the above replies, you seem to have concluded that those men-in-blue ARE commandos. How sure are we about that?

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 25 Aug 2009 21:05

atreya wrote:By the way, from the above replies, you seem to have concluded that those men-in-blue ARE commandos. How sure are we about that?

Errr...i didn't conclude they were commandos. I was the one who put this:

Dmurphy wrote:Who are the men in blue in this pic? It reminds of the old uniform of the SPG.

VikB · Post by **VikB** » 08 Sep 2009 10:51

Was at CST, Mumbai yesterday. Saw two all-black-clad commandu looking guys with INSAS slung on their backs taking rounds of the station area. This was on the inter-city side of the station. They looked very fit and didnt look local at all. The closeness of their dress to the Black-cat commandos/NSG guys seen with the politicians in Delhi, made me inquisitive. I approached one duo and asked if they are NSG - got a curt no. Didnt push it further. After some time on my way out, I again saw another 'buddy-pair' chatting. This time could not resist. Went to them and asked what force they belonged to? Got told that they are from RPF (Railway Protection Force) and they have been seperately given 'special' training. They do not have any distinct name of their unit.
I was really impressed with the taunt body and the way they were standing - smartly and fully alert. Other observation - except for the INSAS rifle, they didnt have anything else on them. As in, no pocket was buldging so dont know if they had more ammunition. Plus none of the magazines were full. No other weapon like dagger etc was visible.

Thought would share.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 08 Sep 2009 13:21

VikB wrote:Got told that they are from RPF (Railway Protection Force) and they have been seperately given 'special' training. They do not have any distinct name of their unit.

Railways had an establishment Railway Protection Special Force (RPSF) for quite some time. A pal of mine was in there for nearly 8 years. Had his training a Tiruchirapally, and after that he moved along with his unit - which was pretty much in the lines of an infantry battalion. They had better arms and training, and were even posted to North East and in J&K (for election bandobust). The differences in uniform was the shoulder insignia was RPSF and they wore a khakhi sloutch hat (and not the black beret).

VikB · Post by **VikB** » 08 Sep 2009 14:17

^^^ thanks Sachin. The curious part of these guys and the reason i could not identify them was 1. They had a black berret along with black overalls and 2) they had no insgnia on shoulder!
I have seen the black cats in Delhi from up close - they used to surround HKL Bhagat (when he was alive). These guys were absolutely the same except for the shoulder patch which was absent in this case. They were really well built and atleast all the four that I met were above 6'
There was a news item that was posted in BR earlier where after 26/11 the railways had also mentioned having their own commandos. This maybe them. By the talk of the guy it seemed that they had been given the 'special' training only recently. And guess they were following the 'buddy' system - ie team of two. Their ammunition was also different (to my eyes) - as I mentioned earlier that they only had one rifle each with less than full filled magazines. They had lot of pockets so cant really vouch for more but I could not see the tell tale signs of a 'heavily armed' nature. I surely believe that the Railways high ups should not be expecting the exact event of 26/11 nature to happen again. If this time it is a long drawn out shoot out with multiple pigs, I wonder about the ammunition of our guys. Again - just a few thoughts.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 08 Sep 2009 15:52

^^^ Was it these guys? http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 98#p727398

VikB · Post by **VikB** » 09 Sep 2009 10:26

^^^ Differences were - Black beret, no shoulder patch, no name tag, INSAS and not AK. However if you read the news article below the photos in the above link, it says that they would be armed with INSAS.

I think they are the same with some dress change

Damn, I should have taken a mobile pic.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 05 Oct 2009 15:35

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 06 Oct 2009 06:42

BSF Avro at IGI
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaganpvs/3 ... 9/sizes/o/

Seems to be in use currently.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 14 Oct 2009 19:39

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 124220.cms

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 15 Oct 2009 19:35

Gulzar Pens a New Song for the NSG

The four-minute song is about the courage and valour of the NSG commandos who valiantly fought terrorists during the 26/11 Mumbai attacks, and will be unveiled by Union Home Minister P Chidambaram here on Friday.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 20 Oct 2009 23:34

we sleep peacefully at night despite Taliban threat to "fight the Indians" because of Rashtriya Rifles. But noe we have this

Technically speaking this means that RR can be disbanded!

http://www.indianexpress.com/story-print/527958/

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Rashtriya Rifles in a spot, Finance Ministry objects to permanent mandate
Manu Pubby Posted online: Monday , Oct 12, 2009 at 0422 hrs

New Delhi : The country’s largest counter-insurgency fighting force that has close to one lakh specially trained soldiers is caught in a bind with the government still undecided on giving it a permanent mandate. It is reliably learnt that the Rashtriya Rifles (RR) mandate — the force is currently deployed in Jammu and Kashmir — ran out on September 30 and its renewal is now stuck in inter-ministry wrangling.

While the ministries of Defence and Home as well as the National Security Advisor are learnt to have supported a permanent mandate for the RR, the Finance Ministry has held back, arguing that the force should be granted a five-year extension.

Since 1990, when the force was raised to deal with the rising violence in Kashmir, the RR has been given six extensions, the last being in March this year for a mere six months. This has put the force in a limbo as it is unable to plan ahead and go in for long-term capital acquisitions to modernise troops with new weapons and technologies.

The Finance Ministry has objected to a permanent mandate saying that no “strong justification has arisen in terms of the security situation” that justifies a permanent stature for the 63 battalion-strong RR. Ironically, this objection was conveyed in January this year, barely two months after the Mumbai attacks brought out the vulnerability of the country to terror groups .

While the RR was granted a six-month temporary “administrative” extension in March after this objection by the Finance Ministry, another objection in September has again put the matter off the list of the Cabinet Committee on Security, raising fears in Army HQ about the future of the force.

In response to the January letter, the Defence Ministry pointed to difficulties in training, maintaining and modernising a force without a permanent mandate but the Finance Ministry again objected on the ground that paramilitary forces were also being expanded.

The Finance Ministry has now said that according a permanent mandate to the RR would “appear to run contrary to the avowed objectives” of expanding the paramilitary forces. The Ministry argued that the RR is not needed as Central forces like CRPF and BSF are being strengthened to tackle internal security.

What has been left unsaid is that none of the paramilitary forces are being expanded to take on the job of the RR in Jammu and Kashmir or counter-insurgency operations in the North-East. The primary objective of the CRPF expansion is directed at anti-Naxal operations. In J&K and the North-East, counter-insurgency operations are carried out by the Army while Central forces are in charge of security in towns and cities.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 21 Oct 2009 04:32

ITBP forces to get satellite phones on India-China border

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 21 Oct 2009 10:03

Aditya G wrote:we sleep peacefully at night despite Taliban threat to "fight the Indians" because of Rashtriya Rifles. But noe we have this

Technically speaking this means that RR can be disbanded!

http://www.indianexpress.com/story-print/527958/

The Finance Ministry has objected to a permanent mandate saying that no “strong justification has arisen in terms of the security situation” that justifies a permanent stature for the 63 battalion-strong RR. Ironically, this objection was conveyed in January this year, barely two months after the Mumbai attacks brought out the vulnerability of the country to terror groups

I hope officials in finance ministry read the news before giving their "opinion" on such matters. It's better to spend some money to maintain CI troops rather than dole out of lakhs of rupees as compensation after civilians have been massacred by terrorists. RR saves both lives and money. Hope finance ministry officials are not trying to be penny smart and pound foolish.

Three militants killed in encounter in Reasi District

Jammu, Oct 21 (PTI) Three militants were shot dead by security forces in an encounter in Mahore area of Reasi district today.

On tip off, Rashtriya Rifles troops and police launched a joint operation in Pathria, about 200 km from Jammu, in Mahore area around 0145 hours, a defence spokesman said.

Militants opened fire on the security forces who retaliated. In the subsequent encounter, three militants were gunned down by the security forces.

Two AK rifles, a pistol and four hand grenades were recovered from the slain militants, whose identity was being ascertained, the spokesman said.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 21 Oct 2009 13:10

Whine:

Saw a few RPF personnel wandering aimlessly outside the Thane railway station with their INSAS strapped diagonally across their back like some frigging school bags with the barrel pointing downwards. Didn't get to click a pic of theirs since it was too dark then. Though these guys looked lean and fit enough, the apparent laxity wasn't too encouraging. A surpirse attacker can easily take them out before they can unsaddle their guns.

jai · Post by **jai** » 21 Oct 2009 14:51

Given the Naxal situation, I think GOI needs to seriously re-vamp all paramilitary and state police forces - from enhanced CI training to latest hi tech equipment - NVG's, Modern Assault rifles, Grenade Launchers, UAV's, and robust air arms with at least 50 helicopters with each force (could be a mix of Dhruv's/Chetak's, MI 17's, and at least 10 light attack choppers - WSI Dhruv or LCH types).

Time also that defence PSU's went in for JV's with the best defence co's to bring in the latest equipment to our forces, perhaps the govt needs to divest 50% stake to private players like TATA's, L& T, Mahindra's, Godrej etc for this purpose.

Given the terrorism and Naxal challenges facing India today, our response also needs to be a national and consolidated effort, and can not be left to the states Individually. I am therefore wondering if there is any merit in centralizing all state police forces as one force......

ParGha · Post by **ParGha** » 21 Oct 2009 15:34

Aditya G wrote:we sleep peacefully at night despite Taliban threat to "fight the Indians" because of Rashtriya Rifles. But noe we have this
Technically speaking this means that RR can be disbanded!
http://www.indianexpress.com/story-print/527958/

The Finance Ministry has now said that according a permanent mandate to the RR would “appear to run contrary to the avowed objectives” of expanding the paramilitary forces. The Ministry argued that the RR is not needed as Central forces like CRPF and BSF are being strengthened to tackle internal security.

What has been left unsaid is that none of the paramilitary forces are being expanded to take on the job of the RR in Jammu and Kashmir or counter-insurgency operations in the North-East. The primary objective of the CRPF expansion is directed at anti-Naxal operations. In J&K and the North-East, counter-insurgency operations are carried out by the Army while Central forces are in charge of security in towns and cities.

Withholding funding from operational units is shameful. In principle the FinMin is correct that eventually the internal security duties must devolve to a central constabulary force and the RR should be treated as an ad hoc measure. However even if it is an ad hoc measure (running nearly 2 decades now

), it still must be funded - doesn't it? Whatever happened to the idea of setting up a permanent force along the lines of Assam Rifles... Northern Rifles or Northern Watch, I think, it was to be called.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 21 Oct 2009 17:51

The Fin Man guys have a point

The lazy asses at MHA have basically let the Army struggle with the whole CI process.

with all these battalions of CPMF being built up - why can't they shore up and take ove the CI role.

Eventually funding will come through - but this is a bureaucratic battle and the MHA tryng not to be accountable.