![BWAHAHAHAHAHAWAHA :((](./images/smilies/whine.gif)
![BWAHAHAHAHAHAWAHA :((](./images/smilies/whine.gif)
![BWAHAHAHAHAHAWAHA :((](./images/smilies/whine.gif)
Dignity of billion yindusnukavarapu wrote:After the statement by Santhanam, I have been in dilemma for two days. It seems Ameer-Khan has systematically sabotaged our right to self respect and survival. There is no point in shedding tears, that wont stop the porkis and chipandas from the other side to throw their gifts at us. I can already hear rejoicing and merrymaking on both borders.
What is strange is it took 11 years for Mr. Santhanam to give this statement, or is this some kind of psy-opsI personally dont think that he gave that statement to stop the Italian and White Worshiper to lick Ameer-Khan's a** by signing CTBT and selling away the dignity of billion yindus.
When India was designing its nuclear weapons it could not import computers with > 10 Mega FLOP capability, for the fear that non-kosher Yindu's not use it for computer simulation fo nuclear BUM.Gagan wrote:The only real solution to this is to proof test a reworked design.
I hope our scientists now don't back down and say that LIF will also do, or that given adequate computing power we can be 99.9999999999999% sure onlee.
'Indian hydrogen bomb was a dud'
Manoj Joshi
New Delhi, August 27, 2009
K. Santhanam, the Defence Research and Development Organisation official who coordinated India's nuclear weapons programme during the Pokhran nuclear tests in 1998, has thrown a bombshell.
He has declared that the first and most powerful of the three tests conducted on May 11 that year - a thermonuclear or hydrogen bomb - was a " fizzle." This is the first time that a topranked figure, directly associated with the nuclear weapons programme, has acknowledged the test had not been as successful as was trumpeted at the time. ...............
Santhanam made the remarks at a semipublic seminar on the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty at the Institute of Defence Studies and Analyses on Tuesday that followed off- the- record Chatham House rules ( where the identity of the speaker is not revealed, although what he or she said can be freely quoted).
However, after reports of his remarks appeared in a section of the media, he said on Wednesday that his recollection of his statements was slightly more nuanced. His view was that India should not sign the CTBT and that it needed to conduct more thermonuclear tests.
"There is no country in the world," he emphasised, " which managed to get its thermonuclear weapon right in just one test." He said that he had also pointed to the fact that western seismic experts had doubted India's claim that the three simultaneous tests on May 11 had a combined explosives yield of 60 kt. .......................
Santhanam's doubts about the hydrogen bomb after the Pokhran tests were first featured, on an unattributable basis, in security analyst Bharat Karnad's book India's Nuclear Policy ( 2008) where he pointed out that " a senior DRDO official involved in the testing" had, some six months after the tests, " recommended resumption of testing to the government because he was convinced that the test of the hydrogen bomb was inadequate". Karnad, a professor at the Centre for Policy Research, felt that the Indian need to test again " is less a matter of opinion than of fact." In his view, Santhanam's " extremely courageous stand" had struck a fatal blow at the foundation of the Indo- US nuclear deal " predicated on India's never testing again and at any accommodationist policies the Manmohan Singh regime may be considering visa- vis the CTBT and the Fissile Material Cutoff Treaty". .........................
Santhanam's revelation is likely to be like a bucket of cold water on the security establishment in the country.
India claims that it is second to none as a military power. It is building a nuclear triad - basing nuclear weapons on land, air and sea - just like the US, China and Russia.
But the lack of a weapon of adequate explosive yield undermines Indian claims of possessing world- class strategic capability and damages its nuclear force posture.
Asked why Santhanam might have decided to go public now, Karnad said that it was his belief that " as a nuclear scientist who has always dealt in physical certainties, try as he might Santhanam could not reconcile the physical facts of deficiencies in the design of the thermonuclear device evidenced in the test results with the profession of satisfaction by the government with the same results." He said that for reasons best known to him, the DAE chief Chidambaram had claimed success, a position that had undermined the credibility of India's deterrent posture and brought into question the reliability of the unproven thermonuclear armaments in the country's arsenal.
Mail Today via India Today
In Kalyug Drama rules Dharma.Gagan wrote:Problem is that in Kalyug, the Prime Ministers who hold our scientists back are also following the "Dharma" on their watch.
Saar are you really sure about that? I have a feeling K.Santhanam came out with this news precisely because of this scare. If the TN test was a dud and we go on to sign these treaties, India can kiss its a$$ goodbye with the kind of neighbours and allies we have. No one would like the blame for such a thing to be placed at his door steps, even if it happens after 50 years from now.vina wrote:I really think that India should NOT test. We are not going to sign the CTBT and NPT anyways.
This is what I was asking. Since we know that there was fusion (a few kt) then wouldn't the data allow the scientists to improve their designs. Ofcourse, that has to be tested to be 100% verified.vina wrote:I really think that India should NOT test. We are not going to sign the CTBT and NPT anyways. Yes, the Shakti II might have fizzled, but it definitely WOULD have given sufficient real time data to model it better and fix it. Why if your updated models can show that the design you tested would fizzile, that itself is a big improvement(note, predicting failure is different from guaranteeing success , so I grant that there is still a gap there)..
This is supposed to change with the ATV deployment. It is OK to defer tests until the ATV is ready, but they have to test the weapon that will be in the ATV. If I understand correctly, this weapon is supposed to be a different design from that tested in 1998.vina wrote:Remember, Indian nuclear posture is recessed and most probably warhead and missiles are separate.
Vina-jivina wrote:I really think that India should NOT test.....India NEEDs to integrate with the broader world.
has relevanceRemember, Indian nuclear posture is recessed
Otherwise it is relapsedRecessed if Possessed
You can rule (2) out.a_bharat wrote:Any insight into the timing of Sanathanam's disclosure? Would it not have been more appropriate before signing the nuke deal? Or, perhaps we want to get whatever we can from the deal, and then test?
Some possibilities:
- he is a patriot
- he is a loose cannon; shooting his mouth off
- he is doing it under govt. guidance
|-- to counter Obama's anti nuke-deal moves
|-- increased threat from China
Listen, I tend to believe that all babus collectively are pin heads and collectively the system is dumber than a bag of stones. But however, that said, one thing is true about babus like these in sensitive positions. They are simply NEVER allowed to open their mouths (retd or serving doesnt matter) unless cleared by the Govt (remember something called Official Secrets Acts and Oath of secrecy ?) . A retd govt babu opening his mouth on such things. it means absolutely ONE thing and ONE thing only .Saar are you really sure about that? I have a feeling K.Santhanam came out with this news precisely because of this scare
And what is it they are telling the world ?. See what is BO's and NPA's big takleef and next agenda ?. get the CTBT ratified and bring it into force. This is India's way of laying the "red line" / "lakshman rekha" .The GOI of India is signalling to the world via demi/semi "official" channels with good credibilty
Actually what it means , when translated in to Inglees.Govt Babu Santhanam wrote: Indian bomb fizzled
Well, we are willing to sign CTBT. But we will have to resume testing before we can do that. So think hard before you push the CTBT on us. There will be unintended consequence.. After all, we have France's example in front of us . We are all Polynesians now , right?
sanjaykumar wrote:So while GOI uses Santy's clauses to signal on CTBT, its own citizens are told 'we lied to you' but we do have a not-so-big bomb so it doesn't really matter.
Guys. guys.. Cool it. Yeah. Santhanam as the good dhoti clad Yindoo babu is just being "His Master's Voice" .arnab wrote:K Sathanam's views on the nuke deal. So is he a patriot ?![]()
Think of the irony of it. In the worst case, if we accept full Poodledom like UK Stan, we could even have the US nuke warheads sitting on top of the Agni III in Arihant , just like in UK stan nuke subs.. Yeah ,under no circumstance will be be Nuke nood from going forward.Bottom line.. The signal reads this. Okay , you want us to sign the CTBT and NPT. We are willing to do a deal. We test and sign.
So the trade is CTBT and NPT go through (India stops being obstacle) and You recognize India as De Jure nuke power ( an upgrade from being De Facto) and all the privileges that go with it including full nuke trade
Actually going and testing now is a terrible terrible idea . That is dumbness to a Paki level
Yes I will birader. After all I still have my kushpoo. Isnt that the great SDRE chankian game plan? Care only about your ayesha, kushpoo and the fake Rs.500 notes. Rest is all maya onleeGagan wrote:Dilbu,
Just like a true paki consoles the other, "keep jour chin up biradher"
PS: And you need to respond with, "Don't worry I will biradher" followed by numerous smilies depicting a flag and happy smileys.
Washington has informed China, Japan, Russia and other nations of its intent to win Senate approval for the agreement ahead of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty review conference, according to diplomatic sources connected to the United Nations
I have been vilified many times in the last one year on this forum (and threads).Surya wrote:Singha has it right
A decisive win for Arun_S
and what a win - it cuts across so many major threads, nuclear, missile, arihant and hell even the MRCA!!!!
I do not have any deserving quality to be President.kit wrote:ps : Is Arun_S running for president ? Hope he does
If you saying 17kt for boosted primary plus few kt of fusion and (few kt?) of secondary fission then say 17+3+10? = 30kt???Arun_S wrote:I answered that in my post many weeks ago.Raj Malhotra wrote:My fear is whether TN even reached 20kt and boosted fission worked on it or it fizzled below that yield also?
Pls get this straight, Santy was Kalam's BOSS. Not the other way around.Austin wrote:Brijesh says in an interview to Times Now that Santy Boss was Kalam and what Kalam said was the test was sucessful , In a way BM says I relied on Kalam's word.
Arun_S wrote:When India was designing its nuclear weapons it could not import computers with > 10 Mega FLOP capability, for the fear that non-kosher Yindu's not use it for computer simulation fo nuclear BUM.Gagan wrote:The only real solution to this is to proof test a reworked design.
I hope our scientists now don't back down and say that LIF will also do, or that given adequate computing power we can be 99.9999999999999% sure onlee.
Now I have many computers in home that I have junked, with that is 100 times more powerful than 10 MFLOP. Having adequate computing power by its own will not mean I or BARC can make credible BUM !!
To make BUM, BARC need to have competent people. process and organization. Credibility does not come from reciting "Chidambrum Mantra" but by explicit adherence to Scientific process, questioning/challenge, peer review and experimental verification.
Reminds me of a poem by "Nirala" (Suryakant Tripathi 'Nirala' सूर्यकांत त्रिपाठी 'निराला'):
- "Sankranti Kaal Ki vela hai; Kuch Kaam Karo, Kuch Kaam Karo !"
Do your "Dharma", and all will be forgiven.
Raj saab: I partially answered that earlier. Yield from secondary fusion fuel was just few KT. and yes the rest of the yield came from imploding tertiary.Raj Malhotra wrote:So it seems in Indian TN, the primary worked and gave 10-20kt, so what happened to the secondary. Was it complete fizzle which means that there was some fission in secondary but practically nil fusion or there was some fusion in secondary which further raised yield from sympathic fission in the secondary spark plug/tamper/tertiary (and in remaining primary fissile material?).