J & K news and discussion

armenon · Post by **armenon** » 31 Aug 2009 12:30

Just read in Indian Express online edition that Chinese choppers intruded in to Indian airspace in Kashmir and dropped food items over there and in another incident have stolen fuel and supplies meant for our Jawan's. Are we going to respond this or will chalta hain attitude prevail ?

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/army- ... rs/509398/

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 31 Aug 2009 14:24

Two killed, four injured in two separate strikes on CRPF in Srinagar

Srinagar, Aug 31 (ANI): At least two jawans of the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) were killed and four others injured in two separate militant strikes in Srinagar on Monday.

In a first incident, militants opened indiscriminate firing in Lal Chowk area, killing two CRPF jawans.

The militants also reportedly lob grenades on CRPF’s G/28 battalion, situated in Maisuma area injuring four jawans.

Following these incidents, the security forces cordoned off the Lal Chowk, and Aftab Market for search operations. (ANI)

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 31 Aug 2009 15:06

2 jawans killed in twin militant attacks near J-K Assembly
http://www.ptinews.com/news/256999_2-ja ... K-Assembly
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STAFF WRITER 14:7 HRS IST
Srinagar, Aug 31 (PTI) Two CRPF personnel were killed and eight people injured in twin-attacks by militants in the crowded Lal Chowk and Batmaloo areas of the city, barely half a kilometre from the Assembly this afternoon.

Armed with guns and grenades, the militants struck almost simultaneously at around 1 PM when the Jammu and Kashmir Assembly went for a recess after completing the morning session, officials said.

Militants shot two CRPF jawans of 28th battalion in the head from point blank range outside a bank at Lal Chowk, Srinagar's nerve centre, sparking panic in the city.

A few minutes later, militants lobbed a grenade on a CRPF patrol party outside Fire and Emergency Services headquarters at Batmaloo causing injuries to eight persons including three jawans, they said.

This is unfortunate. It is really necesaary to have CRPF people in uniform. Maybe gurus will be able to expound. I would prefer for central forces to be in plain clothes as far as possible, blend in with the population. They could even go around carrying carbines beneath burkhas.

sum · Post by **sum** » 31 Aug 2009 17:35

I would prefer for central forces to be in plain clothes as far as possible, blend in with the population. They could even go around carrying carbines beneath burkhas.

Errr...nothing to suggest our forces dont do all this?

A few in uniform will have to be there for psychological purposes...a lot will surely be in civvies.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 31 Aug 2009 23:07

sum wrote:
I would prefer for central forces to be in plain clothes as far as possible, blend in with the population. They could even go around carrying carbines beneath burkhas.
Errr...nothing to suggest our forces dont do all this?

A few in uniform will have to be there for psychological purposes...a lot will surely be in civvies.

Had once talked to an army colonel serving in J&K. Apparently, that sort of thing does not happen very much. The could be a few mil int people in civvies but bulk of troops are used in a fairly traditional way. imho at least in urban areas, uniformed troops should not be posted unless absolutely necessary. for example, troops manning a check point might need to be in uniform. But troops in say Lal Chowk or Maisuma should not be in uniform.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 01 Sep 2009 07:14

SSP Reasi, Anand Jain, told the Daily Excelsior that a joint team of 61 Rashtriya Rifles and Mahore police was looking for two LeT commanders. The operation was supervised by DIG Udhampur-Reasi range Gulzar Singh Slathia. Police party in the operation was led by SHO Mahore. Additional SP Reasi, Abdul Razzaq, DySP Mahore, K S Jasrotia, and DySP (Operations) Mahore, Surinder Choudhary, were leading searches in Sildhar for past one week.

On August 25, one of the LeT commanders, Aijaz Ahmed Khandey, had been trapped by Army and police in Sildhar. In the heavy exchange of gun-battle, Abdullah Sani was eliminated by Army and police while Khandey had escaped late in the night taking cover of darkness and grown up maize crop. The militant, identified as Aijaz Ahmed Khandey alias Abu Shoib son of Saidullah, a resident of Kulhand, Doda, was traced in a dhok by Army and police in wee hours of this morning. He was asked to surrender but he opened firing with an AK-47 rifle, which he had taken away from killed Army jawan, and lobbed grenades on the security personnel, who retaliated.

Besides the rifle, other recoveries made from the slain ultra included one Nokia mobile handset with one SIM card, 600 AK rounds, one wireless set, 10 rounds of .303, one purse and some documents.

In the same encounter, Army and police had gunned down a hardcore Pakistani commander Abdullah Sani from whose possession 20 SIM cards of all mobile companies operating in the State and an Election Commission’s Electoral Photo Identity Card (EPIC) were seized. With today’s killing, a total of 16 top commanders of LeT and Hizbul Mujahideen (HM) have been eliminated in Mahore and Gulabgarh areas of Reasi district during last about two months.

Meanwhile, according to sources, security forces and police today noticed 22 hide-outs, both natural and man made, in upper reaches of Sildhar, which had enough space to accommodate two to five militants at a time. "These hide-outs might have been used by the militants for taking shelter", sources said, adding police have decided to smash them to ensure that they were not used by the ultras in future.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Sep 2009 07:48

Gilgit-Baltistan generates suspicion
Excerpts

But it falls short of the main demand of the people of Gilgit-Baltistan for a constitutional status to the region as a fifth province and for Pakistani citizenship to its people.

On the other hand, Kashmiri political leaders have slammed the package as a step that undermines the “disputed” status of Jammu & Kashmir by seeking to formalise the status quo that exists on the ground.

According to them, the move aims to turn Gilgit-Baltistan into a virtual province of Pakistan, and is a tacit shift away from Islamabad’s stated position of support to the struggle for the self-determination of the people of Jammu & Kashmir.

Yasin Malik, leader of the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF), who is on a visit to Pakistan, expressed strong opposition to the move. He described the decision as “an arrow that has been shot into the hearts of Kashmiris” by Pakistan.

Reminding Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani of his promise to consult all stakeholders before making any decision, he demanded that the Pakistan government consult the entire Kashmiri leadership first.

Amanullah Khan, leader of his own faction of the JKLF, also denounced the move. He said it was on account of Pakistan’s “wavering stand” on the Kashmir issue that it had lost the support of the Security Council, and now it was squandering any goodwill left for it by “merging” Gilgit-Baltistan with Pakistan.

At an iftaar organised by the PoK government on Sunday in the capital, at which Mr. Malik was the chief guest, all the talk was about the new move in Gilgit-Baltistan, with various theories being offered for the government move, including the “American hand,” and the “Indian hand.”

There have been protests in many parts of PoK over the decision. Despite holding the position that Kashmir should merge with Pakistan, the Jamat-e-Islami too has lent its voice to the protests, saying it opposes a piece-meal solution to the Kashmir issue.

Apparently bowing to the protests and to the Kashmiri accusations that Islamabad did not consult them, Pakistan’s Foreign Ministry is to hold a briefing for Kashmiri leaders on September 4 about the new package for the Northern Areas.

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 01 Sep 2009 08:07

SSridhar wrote:Gilgit-Baltistan generates suspicion

Looks like the folks of Gilgit-Baltistan are also not too happy with the arrangement .. This guy seems pissed at Paki perfidy ...
Delusions of autonomy for Gilgit - Baltistan

Excerpts:

Despite of high claims of granting internal autonomy, a governor, to be appointed by the presdient, and the prime minister, himself, have been made the supreme authorities. The Gilgit – Baltistan Council would be chaired by the prime minister, who will not be elected by votes of the people of Gilgit – Baltistan, while an un-elected governor, to be appointed by the president, would act as vice – chairman of the council. This arrangement is being seen as a major ploy to control the elected representatives of Gilgit – Baltistan.

A new designation, called Chief Minister, has been created but the CM would not be authorized to form his cabinet. The governor would form a cabinet, albeit with “advise” of the chief minister. Also, the legislative assembly would not be able to elect the chief minister. He would be selected by the Gilgit – Baltistan Council

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 01 Sep 2009 08:45

Must Watch!!

This is a very interesting interview with Yasin Malik with one of my favorite Pakistani journalist Iftikhar Ahmed.

http://www.pkaffairs.com/playshow.asp?pageId=5169

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Sep 2009 09:09

Satya_anveshi wrote:Must Watch!!

This is a very interesting interview with Yasin Malik with one of my favorite Pakistani journalist Iftikhar Ahmed.

http://www.pkaffairs.com/playshow.asp?pageId=5169

Good one.
Can see the Paki psyche for violence

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 01 Sep 2009 09:30

Acharya wrote:Good one.
Can see the Paki psyche for violence

More than that this episode captures the transformation of Yasin Malik the terrorist to Yasin Malik the leader of J&K. It highlights the dynamics in Kashmir at that time and of today. There is enough ammo to paint Yason Malik a great civil rights leader or the one who ditched his team and got thousands killed. Pretty much who ever opposed him in JKLF got killed at Indian hands

He comes across being a western piddu for his continued belief in the "third option" just as other harried rats are

.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Sep 2009 09:34

Satya_anveshi wrote:
Acharya wrote:Good one.
Can see the Paki psyche for violence
More than that this episode captures the transformation of Yasin Malik the terrorist to Yasin Malik the leader of J&K. It highlights the dynamics in Kashmir at that time and of today. There is enough ammo to paint Yason Malik a great civil rights leader to the one who ditched his team and got thousands killed. Pretty much who ever opposed him in JKLF got killed at Indian hands

He comes as across being a western piddu for his continued belief in the "third option" just as other harried rats are.

I talk to K Pandits regularily. If Yasin Malik is genuine then he should invite the KP back to Srinagar. Non violence is also being secular and making sure that everybody and their religion has a space in JK.
If he is smart and has got the message from Kuldip Nayyar and Tushar Gandhi he will accept the broader meaning of the non violence.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Sep 2009 09:38

Which 5 thousand years history he is talking about ? From Aurangjeb's time or Paki Qasim time ?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Sep 2009 09:41

Prem wrote:Which 5 thousand years history he is talking about ? From Aurangjeb's time or Paki Qasim time ?

THey have to claim the entire history but only talk about Islamic period just like Paki. This is part of the Islamists talk which is actually Islamo fascism and Islam centric. There is no concept of giving any space even in history to non muslim part. This Aryan part of the Indian history is reluctantly adopted just because the British/west adopts it to show superiority over the SDRE.

This will be a first for Islamist talking and practicing non violence.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Sep 2009 09:46

The 5 thousand years historical heritage belongs to us Indoos and with that claim on the land now occupied by Islamist wheather Kashsmiri or Lahori. The History of Islamists and islamiats have no relevance when deciding Indian national issues.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 01 Sep 2009 13:44

Kashmiris oppose Pakistan’s Northern Areas package: Dawn

ISLAMABAD: Kashmiri politicians opposed a Pakistani plan on Monday they say is aimed at integrating the strategic but disputed Northern Areas into Pakistan, arguing it will undermine their case for independence from India.

The Northern Areas of Gilgit and Baltistan were bundled in with Kashmir and demarcated as disputed territory under UN resolutions passed after Pakistan and India fought the first of their three wars in 1948.

Amanullah Khan, leader of the pro-independence Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front, rejected the package, saying it appeared to be aimed at merging the disputed areas into Pakistan.

‘We strongly condemn this package. It will harm the interests of Pakistan as well as Kashmiris,’ he told Reuters.

‘It looks like they are integrating these areas into Pakistan as done by India.’

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 01 Sep 2009 16:26

Terrorist Paki army violates ceasefire http://indiatoday.intoday.in/index.php? ... ssueid=121

Indian reaction

India reacted sharply to the incident and will lodge a strong protest with Pakistan over the truce violation.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 01 Sep 2009 17:15

"Uncle uncle look what pakistan is doing. They are being bad boys

"

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Sep 2009 17:24

rkirankr Terrorist Paki army violates ceasefire http://indiatoday.intoday.in/index.php? ... ssueid=121

Indian reaction

Quote:
India reacted sharply to the incident and will lodge a strong protest with Pakistan over the truce violation.

The cheapest life in the world is that of an Indian Soldier, a cold blooded murder takes place and we have a protest and peaceniks will chai biscuit with the man who ordered the killing. Next cheapest is the life of Indian civilian.

Offcourse we are more concerned with sentencing of a Die like Anand Jon

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 02 Sep 2009 03:39

Army withdrawing 39 Mountain Division from Jammu and Kashmir

An army division, comprising around 15,000 troops, is being withdrawn from Jammu and Kashmir and some of its
units have already returned to its base in Himachal Pradesh, a senior army officer said on Tuesday.

The shifting of the division from the districts in Jammu and Kashmir comes close on the demand of separatists and opposition PDP to withdraw troops from the state in view of the improved security situation there.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 07 Sep 2009 07:24

Yasin Malik's Interview with Iftikhar Ahmed - Part II

Pardah Phaash!! Just as I said before...this $hit is out-and-out chamcha of US. Finds great support frm MMS's administration.

Claims Uneven Cohen is his friend. Sees himself among the likes of Aang Sun Sue Ki, Dalai Lama et al. Wel...at this rate he poses a great competition to MMS. May be both will share.

Overall, again, interesting to watch.

Satya_anveshi wrote:Must Watch!!

This is a very interesting interview with Yasin Malik with one of my favorite Pakistani journalist Iftikhar Ahmed.

http://www.pkaffairs.com/playshow.asp?pageId=5169

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 07 Sep 2009 09:25

15 top militants killed recently in Kashmir: Police Chief

Jammu: Security forces have eliminated 15 top militant commanders of various outfits in recent months, Jammu and Kashmir Director General of Police (DGP) Kuldeep Khoda said here on Sunday.

Those killed include Abu Jindal and Abu Hamza, he told mediapersons after a function.
"This is a big achievement for security forces fighting militancy in the state," he noted.Kudos. Can we do something about some of the sick rats in the valley?

Khoda, however, said there was a rise in infiltration of militants from Pakistan across the Line of Control (LOC) and "Pakistan is backing the infiltrators".

General Officer Commanding in Chief of Northern Command, Lt Col P.C. Bhardwaj, recently told newspersons that over 70 infiltrators had sneaked into India this year, compared to 45 over the same period last yearInfilteration is picking up, again

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Sep 2009 23:59

Pioneer reports...

FLASH | Saturday, September 12, 2009 | Email | Print |

Police officials gets bail in Shopian case

PTI | Srinagar

Nearly two months after they were arrested, Jammu and Kashmir High Court on Friday granted bail to four police officials including the suspended SP Javed Iqbal Matoo in the Shopian rape and double murder case.

The order was passed by Justice Sunil Hali on Friday after he had reserved the same on September eight. The four police officials including Matoo, DySP Rohit Baskotra, SHO Shafeeq Ahmad and sub-inspector Qazi Abdul Karim have been asked to furnish a bail bond of Rs 15,000.

They were arrested on July 15 on the orders given by a division bench of the High Court for allegedly destroying the evidence in case of alleged rape and murder of Neelofar (22) and Aasiya (17), whose bodies were found on May 30 from a stream in Shopian, 70 kilometers from here.

Justice Hali had reserved the orders after defence counsel for the police officers Aseem Mehrotra concluded his counter- arguments by claiming that the police officials were being made scapegoats by the Government.

Advocate General Mohammad Ishaq Qadri and Kashmir High Court Bar Association President Mian Abdul Qayoom, during their arguments, had opposed the bail plea of the officers.

The Jammu and Kashmir Government has already handed over the case to the CBI and was waiting for the agency to take a decision on taking up the investigation.

So the facts are two women were raped and murdered. And these four police offcials colluded and destoryed the evidence. And all this prosecution is of these four. So what happened to the real perpetrators of the crime? Any comments?

And what can CBI do after so many months with tampered evidence? Is state govt passing the buck?

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 18 Sep 2009 02:55

Pakistan Gilgit Package: Self Rule or Annexation - Prof. Bhim Singh

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Sep 2009 03:00

Its annexation. However Mrs. G didnt care for those Northern Areas in the Shimla pact.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 18 Sep 2009 04:13

Satya_anveshi wrote:Must Watch!!

This is a very interesting interview with Yasin Malik with one of my favorite Pakistani journalist Iftikhar Ahmed.

http://www.pkaffairs.com/playshow.asp?pageId=5169

Have to agree - nice viewing.

The journalist is fantastic - he doesnt hold back.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 18 Sep 2009 05:59

Anti-India time over: Mirwaiz

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 18 Sep 2009 13:33

High alert sounded in Jammu

Jammu, Sept 18 (PTI) Apprehending that some militants might have sneaked into the Indian side during the cross-border firing in Nikowal Pargwal area last night, Jammu and Kashmir police has sounded a high alert in the district.

All entry and exit points have been sealed, vehicles are being checked and people frisked. Security in the city and adjoining routes have been intensified to check for any suspected person, police said.

A major check point has been set up on Jammu-Akhnoor road to check all passengers coming via buses, trucks and other two and three wheelers, they said.

Additional security has been also deployed at Jammu bus stand, Railway station and other vital points.

The security has also been tightened in view of the Navratras, the nine days festivity of Goddess Durga, starting tomorrow.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 22 Sep 2009 11:46

Minister for Revenue and Relief Raman Bhalla paid floral tributes to Maharaja Hari Singh on his 114th birth anniversary function organised by JK Duggar Vikas Manch at Bagh-e-Bahu, here this afternoon. Mr. Bhalla threw light on the life of Maharaja Hari Singh. He highlighted the social reforms introduced by him such as prohibition of child marriage, smoking among children and polygamy besides opening the doors of temples for schedule castes.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 22 Sep 2009 12:47

After 18 yrs, peaceful Eid in Valley

SRINAGAR: During the last 18 years of militancy, religious fervor in the Kashmir Valley has been subdued by blasts and killings. But, this
Eid-ul-Fitr was different: There was no violence or even the customarily shrill `azadi' speeches.

That's not to say there wasn't a flutter either: Soon after Eid prayers at various shrines in Srinagar on Monday, Hurriyat activists marched toward the Hyderpora house of hardliner Syed Ali Shah Geelani under house arrest for the last one month. The police resorted to a mild lathi charge to dissuade them from continuing their walk.

Meanwhile Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, addressing a large gathering at the Eidgah ground notably without the rigorous security ring urged the Centre to "open a dialogue with Kashmiris to end uncertainty.'' He said Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's forthcoming visit to Kashmir had created hopes of a resolution to the Kashmir issue.

For thousands of people who turned up at the prayer ground in their best dressed, the day marked a welcome change. Ghulam Mohammad Najar, a resident of Rawalpora who attended the prayers, said: "Everyone looked relaxed because there were no security men around Eidgah.''

Recalling the difficult days, Dr Rouf Jeelani of Buchpora, who too attended the Eidgah prayers, said: "The place used to be under the control of separatists. But this year, it was only religion that was being talked about.'' He hoped the situation would return to pre-1990 days.

According to Director General of Police Kuldeep Khoda, there has been a sharp decline in militant activity in the last three years. "Today, people came out on the streets without fear. The police had to face a tough time regulating traffic.''

Men, women and children wearing new clothes were seen strolling along the Dal Lake Boulevard. "I haven't experienced such a huge rush here,'' said Bashir Ahmad Wani, a resident of Nishat. Special prayers were also held at Dargah Hazratbal and at the sprawling TRC Ground in Civil Lines, where Jamiat-e-Ahli Hadees chief Maulana Shawkat Ahmad Shah led a congregation.

Residents of Shopian, too, celebrated without protests.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 23 Sep 2009 11:29

New tactic by Pakistan army

In Pathri Gali forward area in Mendhar sector of Poonch district, arms, ammunition and explosive devices were dropped from a Pakistan army post located at a height towards the Indian village. The consignment of weaponry was to be picked up by Over Ground Workers (OGWs) of the militants and delivered to Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) activists. However, it fell into the hands of security forces before it could be picked-up.

So what's next? Medieval style catapults for lobbing across arms and ammo?

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 23 Sep 2009 13:59

Indian soldier, rebels killed in Kashmir: police

SRINAGAR, India — An Indian soldier and three militants were killed and six soldiers wounded in clashes in the volatile region of Kashmir, police said Wednesday.

The three clashes occurred in the northern districts of Kupwara, Baramulla and Bandipora, a police spokesman said, adding two of the gunbattles that started overnight were still raging.

---

Army major, jawan killed in Bandipora encounter in J&K

SRINAGAR: An Army major and a jawan were killed in a gunbattle with militants in Bandipora district of north Kashmir on Wednesday.

Major JS Suri and the jawan in the rank of Naik went down fighting the terrorists in village Boniyari-Sumbal, 30 km from Srinagar, officials said.

Acting on a tip-off, the Army party led by the Major stormed a house where terrorists were hiding on Tuesday evening. Though other members of the party came out, the duo was trapped in heavy firing by the terrorists.

Reports suggest that more terrorists are holed up in a house at the encounter site. The number has not been confirmed yet, though sources say that there could be around 5 terrorists.

Meanwhile, sources have told Times Now that one of the trapped terrorist is the dreaded Hizbul commander Pasha.

After a night-long lull, the terrorists resumed firing on Wednesday morning.

The Army along with police had strengthened the cordon around the house during night to prevent any attempt by the terrorists to escape under the cover of darkness.

In another encounter in Baramulla district, two Army jawans and as many militants were killed on Tuesday in an operation at Ladoo forest in Panzla area in Rafaibad, 65 kms from Srinagar.

Security forces continue their search operations in the area, after they believe that there is a chance for these terrorists to have escaped.

The number of encounters along the Line of Control (LoC) is increasing day by day, with the one in Bandipura being the 33 rd encounter in a span of 46 days.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Sep 2009 07:03

Army Major, 3 Soldiers killed in North Kashmir encounters
Not a new one, but the same as posted above.

The heavy Army casualties concern me. Of course, my heart goes out to these soldiers and their families. But, such heavy casualties are not worth against these terrorists. We need to be merciless and ruthless with these scums. May be it calls for different tactics. For example, the report says

When a posse of soldiers led by a Lt. Col and two Majors approached a house, one of the militants hiding there hurled a grenade, injuring at least six of them including officers.

Major J. S. Suri and a soldier of the rank of Naik were killed when they were trapped inside. The others managed to come out but in the process a Major and two others were injured. An unconfirmed report said a Lt. Col. received a bullet in the hand.

Of course, I don't know much about Army counterterrorism operations. But, I feel that if we suspect there are terrorists inside a house, we need to take that house down after a failure by occupants to come out when asked to do so through megaphones, for example. There is no need to approach the house to try to get in. The report further states

After the fierce fighting, firing on both sides stopped for the night and it resumed in the morning and continued till late in the afternoon. But overnight, the Army had tightened the cordon. It then used improvised explosive devices to bring down the house, killing the militants hiding there, ending the 25-hour operation.

Do we need a 25-hour operation and bring down the house after that ? There is no possibility that these terrorists will surrender. We don't need to take them alive. Why prolong the agony and increase the possibility of more Army casualties ?

“It was a great loss to us. Major Suri and others fought valiantly,” said an officer who was in tears.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 24 Sep 2009 09:46

^There were civilians trapped inside the house with the militants; only after the civilians had been safely evacuated the house were the militant was hiding was demolished; this is what starnews was reporting live from the site of encounter.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 24 Sep 2009 09:50

SSridhar wrote:Army Major, 3 Soldiers killed in North Kashmir encounters
Not a new one, but the same as posted above.

The heavy Army casualties concern me. Of course, my heart goes out to these soldiers and their families. But, such heavy casualties are not worth against these terrorists. We need to be merciless and ruthless with these scums. May be it calls for different tactics. For example, the report says
When a posse of soldiers led by a Lt. Col and two Majors approached a house, one of the militants hiding there hurled a grenade, injuring at least six of them including officers.

Major J. S. Suri and a soldier of the rank of Naik were killed when they were trapped inside. The others managed to come out but in the process a Major and two others were injured. An unconfirmed report said a Lt. Col. received a bullet in the hand.
Of course, I don't know much about Army counterterrorism operations. But, I feel that if we suspect there are terrorists inside a house, we need to take that house down after a failure by occupants to come out when asked to do so through megaphones, for example. There is no need to approach the house to try to get in. The report further states
After the fierce fighting, firing on both sides stopped for the night and it resumed in the morning and continued till late in the afternoon. But overnight, the Army had tightened the cordon. It then used improvised explosive devices to bring down the house, killing the militants hiding there, ending the 25-hour operation.
Do we need a 25-hour operation and bring down the house after that ? There is no possibility that these terrorists will surrender. We don't need to take them alive. Why prolong the agony and increase the possibility of more Army casualties ?
“It was a great loss to us. Major Suri and others fought valiantly,” said an officer who was in tears.

From the news report, one cannot with exactitude know how the operation was conducted to comment.

However, generally speaking, when information is received that terrorists have holed out in a village and the troops reach the spot, one cannot be sure as to how many militants are there and in which all houses they have holed up in. At best, a general idea is given by the informer. It must be understood that the informer will not be too keen with information since his own life thereafter will be in danger. Even if the exact house is told, yet, one will have to take it at face value and go through the procedure of Cordon and Search.

To be sure where the terrorists are, it becomes essential to draw fire from them to locate them, unless they have started firing on the troops approaching the village.

As the inner cordon closes in and tighten while going through the search procedure, the terrorists fire and are detected. However, it does not mean that all terrorists are in that house alone. Therefore, as the cordon tightens further and there is a possibility that some terrorists holed out in other houses then open up.

There is a possibility that the cordon has gone past these terrorists who have opened up now, they having been silent so far (It maybe mentioned that some of the houses have secret chambers built into the wall, or underground where the terrorists can hide undetected when a house is being checked). If the troops are exposed, then the possibility of buying own casualties cannot be ruled out. However, it is not that this should happen, since the cordon tightening the noose and the search is a careful and a deliberate process. Walls are tapped for hollow sounds etc. That is why it takes immense amount of time to conduct these operations. The more deliberate it is, the less is own casualties. However, time is also at a premium since the terrorists can escape if it is too time consuming. A careful balance thus has to be made.

Once the terrorists location has been determined, they are asked to come out. If they don't, then explosives are laid to demolish the building. This again is a period when the troops who are doing can get exposed from the house where the terrorists are firing from, or from a flanking house from where the terrorists have not given away their position by firing.

Unlike the Pakistani Army or the US Army, the Indian Army is very sensitive to causing collateral damage or killing people not involved. Hence, even when laying the explosive to blow the target house, one has to be careful to ensure that it is laid in such a manner that there is minimum collateral damage. Hence, more danger to own troops.

While one could blast through the village and save IA lives, it may not be the ideal way to do things as the Pakistan Army is realising in NWFP and the the US in Afghanistan.

The very fact that Kashmir per se is not on the boil and that it is only the foreign sponsored who are keeping the kettle boiling proves that our mode is not too wrong! I agree we have to sacrifice dearly for our ideals!

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Sep 2009 10:27

Avinash R wrote:^There were civilians trapped inside the house with the militants; only after the civilians had been safely evacuated the house were the militant was hiding was demolished; this is what starnews was reporting live from the site of encounter.

Other reports indicated that the major was taken hostage by the pigs...However, once he was killed by the pigs, the IA went the whole hog and brought the house down.

Also, a MARCOS has been KIA in a seperate encounter...

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 24 Sep 2009 10:50

Which other reports?

How did he become a hostage?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 24 Sep 2009 11:03

RayC wrote:Which other reports?

How did he become a hostage?

Ray sir,

This report also mentions the hostage taking (X-posting link from DMurphy's post): Source 1

Have you in your extensive experience ever come across troops taken hostage during a COIN operation?? Very disturbing beyond imagination on what the brave Major probably went through during his last moments.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 24 Sep 2009 11:13

How was he taken as a hostage?

In a Search and Cordon that would be surprising an event.

Was he a hostage before the Ops? Could be, if he were on a intelligence trip.

I am sorry the news report does not elaborate for comments!

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 24 Sep 2009 11:22

^^^ Based on the sketchy reports (and they can be 100% incorrect), it seems the Major and one Naik got trapped in the heavy crossfire and could not get out of the house. The Naik died and the Major was probably badly injured and got dragged in. Without a carefully setup ambush (i.e. the terrorists were forewarned well in time possibly by the same informer or some other traitor) something like this happening looks unlikely.