Indian Space Program Discussion

[prataparudra]

Isro redesigned its home page.
It really sucks. Whats up with the font? who uses a cursive style font on a Major website like that. I'm really frustrated

http://www.isro.org/

[Chinmayanand]

Design of Chandrayaan-2 ready

BANGALORE: India has completed the design of Chandrayaan-2, its next mission to the moon -- this time in collaboration with Russia -- that would have a lander and rover which can collect samples of the lunar soil and analyse them and send back the data.

[AmitR]

Isro redesigned its home page.
It really sucks. Whats up with the font? who uses a cursive style font on a Major website like that. I'm really frustrated

http://www.isro.org/

Looks like they gave the work to some undergrads who came to work as summer interns.
Pay peanuts get monkeys.

[KrishG]

Isro redesigned its home page.
It really sucks. Whats up with the font? who uses a cursive style font on a Major website like that. I'm really frustrated

http://www.isro.org/

Looks like they gave the work to some undergrads who came to work as summer interns.
Pay peanuts get monkeys.

It's atleast better than other GOI websites. I think it's on par with DRDO website. ISRO should understand that more interactive websites with graphics and 3D animations will attract more attention, especially among the younger generation. ISRO should atleast have a website on par with ESA. Even the Chinese website is full of illustrations and 3D animations of future missions!

[Sanjay M]

Vee arr beeg Eye-Tee Shooparpawarr

Mhoon meeshaan $10M
Vebshite 10 paise

[arun]

X Posted:

August 19th, 2009

LRO, Chandrayaan-1 Team Up For Unique Search for Water Ice

Written by Nancy Atkinson

NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter and India's Chandrayaan-1 will team up on August 20 to perform a Bi-Static radar experiment to search for water ice in a crater on the Moon's north pole. Both spacecraft will be in close proximity approximately 200 km above the lunar surface, and both are equipped with radar instruments. The two instruments will look at the same location from different angles, with Chandrayaan-1's radar transmitting a signal which will be reflected off the interior of Erlanger crater, and then be picked up by LRO. Scientists will compare the signal that bounces straight back to Chandrayaan with the signal that bounces at a slight angle to LRO to garner unique information, particularly about any water ice that may be present inside the crater. ………………………..

Universe Today

[ss_roy]

One project that ISRO should look at:

An unmanned outer-solar system probe that uses a small nuclear reactor (like the TOPAZ series), coupled to an innovative ion engine (something like the VASIMR concept). I am thinking along the lines of Project Prometheus.

It would not be much more expensive than flying people in space, and for once it will be a true innovation (as nobody has ever built and flown something like that). However I have feeling that naysayers will destroy such an idea.

The biggest reason I left India- too many naysayers, who have no clue , but still control money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOPAZ_nuclear_reactor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_Specific_Impulse_Magnetoplasma_Rocket

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Prometheus

[Sanjay M]

India should send a balloon probe to Mars, perhaps in a joint effort with ESA.

Mars is on everyone's radar screen right now, and a balloon would accomplish detailed exploration over a much broader range than mere rovers could.

[Sanjay M]

WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125107281002652587.html

A new crop of private companies is going to challenge dominance of the space field by govt institutions.

Can ISRO compete?

[krishnan]

http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20090825/8 ... sat-2.html

Coimbatore, Aug 25 (ANI0: The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) will launch Oceansat-2, a unique integrated satellite to track marine life and identify potential fishing zones in September.

This was disclosed by Y V N Krishnamurthy, Director of ISRO's Regional Remote Sensing Service Centre here on Monday.

The integration of the satellite, designed to identify potential fishing zones, assists in forecasting marine trends and coastal zone studies will also provide inputs for weather forecasting and climate studies.

Krishnamurthy said that all pre-launch tests on the functional aspects of the satellite have been successfully completed.

"We are launching a satellite called Oceansat-2 based on the ocean colour and the wind vectors. This scatterometer, which gives us, the wind vectors will provide information on where the fish potential zones are and how these are moving. In a dynamic situation also, the fishermen can get the advisories from the remote sensing information," he added.

Oceansat-2 would blast off on board India's indigenous workhorse, the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV) from the Satish Dhawan Space Centre (SDSC) at Sriharikota located on the Indian east coast.

This satellite will be an in-orbit replacement to Oceansat-1, which was launched by ISRO in May 1999 to study physical and biological aspects of oceanography.

Oceansat-2 would carry an Ocean Colour Monitor (OCM) and a Ku-band pencil beam Scatterometer - for the first time, besides a Radio Occultation Sounder for Atmospheric Studies (ROSA). (ANI)

[Drevin]

By the time ISRO begins manned missions, technology/research would make it much easier to set up a lunar/mars base.

Adapting a chemical process they originally created to extract metal, the Cambridge team has designed a reactor that strips the oxygen from the metal oxides found in moon rocks. Essentially a giant electrode sitting in a vat of melted salt, the reactor creates an electric current that chemically breaks the oxygen off of the metal, and frees it into the atmosphere.

According to the scientists, three ten foot tall reactors working on three tons of moon rocks could produce a cubic ton of oxygen over the course of a year. Additionally, the reactor doesn't require much more electricity than a hot water heater, so it won't eat up the limited energy of the potential moon base.

note:I think the term reactor used here is misleading.

link here
Breathable Air Out of Moon Rocks

[arun]

PSLV C-14 to provide a piggyback ride to orbit for a Swiss micro-satellite, Swiss Cube along with Oceansat-2, next month:

University builds first all-Swiss satellite, chooses ISRO for launch

[SSridhar]

Enhance Space Vision: Manmohan
Excerpts

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Tuesday suggested that the “Space Vision,” being developed for the country up to the year 2025, should “spell out not only our expansion plans but also the new frontiers of technology that we wish to master and cover.”

“Exploring the new frontiers of space technology aimed at low cost access to space, development of heavy lift boosters to launch heavier satellites, realising high power and high bandwidth communication satellites and remote sensing satellites with all weather capability are some of these challenges.”

[Daedalus]

note:I think the term reactor used here is misleading.

Adapting a chemical process they originally created to extract metal, the Cambridge team has designed a reactor that strips the oxygen from the metal oxides found in moon rocks.

The term reactor is not misleading, you are not fully informed. Read this and get enlightened.

[KrishG]

I was just going through GSLV-Mk III numbers and found out something confusing.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/AeroIndia2009/krishG/IMG_0023.JPG.html

The ISRO poster says that the bun time of S200 is around 140 seconds while some of the earlier estimates put it at around 110 seconds. The L110burn time is saud to be 200 seconds while I expected 240 seconds and ISRO has previously tested it to 240 seconds and stated that it was it's full burn time.

[narayana]

Mars mission by 2013-2015, says ISRO

are we capable of handling 2 major projects in same timeline?,chandrayaan-2 is also slated for 2013,or are we becoming too ambitious or want to overcome the tragedy of chandrayaan-1 with a new hope.and also our manned space mission is also slated for 2015...

[Nihat]

Mars mission by 2013-2015, says ISRO

are we capable of handling 2 major projects in same timeline?,chandrayaan-2 is also slated for 2013.or are we becoming too ambitious or want to cover up the tragedy of chandrayaan-1 with a new hope.

CY-1 sure ended in a tragic and unfortunate way but in no was the whole mission a tragedy , especially one which completed most of it's objectives.

Also , reading below the link you have given one can find comments of common Indian citizen and this just goes to highlight how inept we are at understanding long term objectives and how gullible the citizen of this nation is to be carried away by propoganda of a few regarding poverty , unemployment blah , blah.

According to these people unless we get rid of all economic , social and political ills of our society we should not waste money on petty matters such as defense technology or space exploration. Pathetic.

I bet they would also argue that whats the need for a 1000 cr. Rs worth of AWACS when millions die in hunger.

[ss_roy]

Indian scientific establishments have a mental block about using/ funding/ supporting PR. Have you noticed that ISRO never pushed good press releases that compared CY-1 imagery to that obtained from other probes?

[symontk]

I was just going through GSLV-Mk III numbers and found out something confusing.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/AeroIndia2009/krishG/IMG_0023.JPG.html

The ISRO poster says that the bun time of S200 is around 140 seconds while some of the earlier estimates put it at around 110 seconds. The L110burn time is saud to be 200 seconds while I expected 240 seconds and ISRO has previously tested it to 240 seconds and stated that it was it's full burn time.

The Vikas engine is expected to have burn time of 240 seconds for a loading of 60ton fuel. Since we have only 55 ton fuel for each engine in L110, the burn time would be 220 seconds.

Not sure about S200, it could be easily 140 seconds or more, depends more of the cut they made inside the solid motor (for example star shape), if its having more surface area, it will be having least burn time but will generate more pressure. If the cut is round with less surface area, it will burn for more time. The final cut design will depend on the strength of the stage metal covering. The metal covering should be able to withstand the enormous pressure generated by the solid stage burning.

In US space shuttle, they made a huge circular cut and the stage burns out pretty quickly giving the needed push to the vehicle.

[Sanjay M]

Mars mission by 2013-2015, says ISRO

are we capable of handling 2 major projects in same timeline?,chandrayaan-2 is also slated for 2013,or are we becoming too ambitious or want to overcome the tragedy of chandrayaan-1 with a new hope.and also our manned space mission is also slated for 2015...

from the article:

Mars mission by 2013-2015, says ISRO
PTI 31 August 2009, 11:30am IST

PANAJI: India's mission to Mars will take place between 2013-2015, Indian Space Research Organisation chief G Madhavan Nair said on Monday.

"We have given a call for proposal to different scientific communities. Depending on the type of experiments they propose, we will be able to plan the mission," he said.

The mission is at conceptual stage and will be taken up after Chandrayaan-2, Nair said.

How can I submit a proposal idea, or get others to submit it?

I've posted some ideas on here before about a Mars mission.

Prez Kalam pointed out that if we were going to take all the trouble to go to the Moon, then we might as well land our flag on it. Likewise, if we're going to take the trouble to go all the way to Mars, then we should send a flag down there. I would prefer a soft landing, rather than a hard one, so that our flag survives intact. Have the spacecraft release an entry payload into the atmosphere, which could perhaps deploy a ballute to serve as both heat shield and aerobrake.

Another idea is not to touch down on the surface at all, but to deploy a balloon during atmospheric entry. The balloon could then float around, conducting an aerial survey of the planet, for mineral mapping. It could take pictures far more detailed than any orbital craft.

Instead of using Mylar, make the balloon's skin out of a graphene-impregnated polymer, since graphene has very high strength and is considered to be the most impermeable to gases, to minimize the loss of buoyant gas. This would maximize the longevity of the balloon's mission.
Hydrogen could be used as the buoyant gas, since there is no danger of combustion in the Martian CO2 atmosphere, or else Helium could be used, since it also leaks less than Hydrogen does. The Indian flag could be painted on the balloon, and it might even be visible from space. A large balloon could have good surface area for solar energy collection, to power an instrument package.

One of the goals of the Mars mission should be to survey the planet for useful substances like water or nitrogen, or even minerals. I saw a map produced by the gamma-ray spectrometer on NASA's Mars Odyssey spacecraft, which showed the distribution of Thorium on the planet's surface. Since Thorium is considered to be an area where India has expertise in for nuclear energy production, it might be useful for India to survey for this material in much greater detail.

Conducting high-altitude balloon experiments here on Earth would be relatively inexpensive, and even smaller-sized rockets or aircraft could be used to test out balloon deployment, and to develop high-strength gas-impermeable materials for the balloon's skin, like the graphene polymer I've suggested.

[Arunkumar]

Sanjay M saar all are good ideas.

Nasa allows public participation in many of its deep space missions by way of a CD that is carried on board the spacecraft with names of general public (nationality not an issue) submitted via internet. Such a public outreach program has very high PR value for ensuring public support.
Long time back I sent a email to isro to include such a CD in future missions(CY-2 and after that). Dont know what is the status. Will try again.

[Sanjay M]

Why can't India also develop a space-station on the cheap, by simply creating a large high-altitude balloon platform floating very high in the sky in "near space" conditions, on which it could mount telescopes, or equipment it wants to test, or even have personnel live, in order to simulate all the conditions of space except for weightlessness. It could even be used to train astronauts, and test their endurance in living in a constrained environment.

Other than actual rocket-borne space missions, what's the highest Indians have ever been?
Also, there have only been a few Indians in space - what was the longest duration by one of them?

[KrishG]

Why can't India also develop a space-station on the cheap, by simply creating a large high-altitude balloon platform floating very high in the sky in "near space" conditions, on which it could mount telescopes, or equipment it wants to test, or even have personnel live, in order to simulate all the conditions of space except for weightlessness. It could even be used to train astronauts, and test their endurance in living in a constrained environment.

Other than actual rocket-borne space missions, what's the highest Indians have ever been?
Also, there have only been a few Indians in space - what was the longest duration by one of them?

Rakesh Sharma was the only Indian citizen (not dual) to go into space, others are irrelevant.

[Raveen]

Rakesh Sharma was the only Indian citizen (not dual) to go into space, others are irrelevant.

No one is irrelevant
Pakis count the number of muslims in space, we cant even count the number of dual citizens?
Sir, no one and nothing is irrelevant, including your and my opinion...just a thought

[Yogi_G]

Why can't India also develop a space-station on the cheap, by simply creating a large high-altitude balloon platform floating very high in the sky in "near space" conditions, on which it could mount telescopes, or equipment it wants to test, or even have personnel live, in order to simulate all the conditions of space except for weightlessness. It could even be used to train astronauts, and test their endurance in living in a constrained environment.

Other than actual rocket-borne space missions, what's the highest Indians have ever been?
Also, there have only been a few Indians in space - what was the longest duration by one of them?

I have always wondered how far up the Indian pilots would have taken the Mig-25 given its abilities.

[KrishG]

Rakesh Sharma was the only Indian citizen (not dual) to go into space, others are irrelevant.

No one is irrelevant
Pakis count the number of muslims in space, we cant even count the number of dual citizens?
Sir, no one and nothing is irrelevant, including your and my opinion...just a thought

Rakesh Sharma's voyage was part of a strategic deal between India and the USSR. He went aboard the Salyut-7 as an Indian while others didn't.

[KrishG]

Why can't India also develop a space-station on the cheap, by simply creating a large high-altitude balloon platform floating very high in the sky in "near space" conditions, on which it could mount telescopes, or equipment it wants to test, or even have personnel live, in order to simulate all the conditions of space except for weightlessness. It could even be used to train astronauts, and test their endurance in living in a constrained environment.

Other than actual rocket-borne space missions, what's the highest Indians have ever been?
Also, there have only been a few Indians in space - what was the longest duration by one of them?

I have always wondered how far up the Indian pilots would have taken the Mig-25 given its abilities.

The Foxbats had the capability of flying upto 80,000 feet which is about 25 km. The Kármán line, which is the boundary between atmosphere and space is at 100 km from the earth's surface.

[Sanjay M]

Read this one:

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2004/Jer ... ayek.shtml

Something like this would take a lot of nerve, but it wouldn't take high technology by today's standards.

I would say that the latest advances in materials like graphene could make ballooning a leading-edge technology in the future, opening up the upper atmosphere to easier/cheaper access for scientific/technical applications. Given India's emphasis on low-cost science, this would be a natural avenue for space research.

It might once again be feasible to have Telstar-like satellites in the future, or even manned stations floating high in the upper atmosphere to give astronauts training in near-space-like environments. Balloon "stratellites" can easily be deployed and taken down for maintenance, unlike spacecraft which are difficult to retrieve.

Furthermore, such balloon platforms would be ideal atmospheric entry vehicles for exploration of other planets, including Mars. A cubic metre of hydrogen has enough buoyant force to lift 2kg in the lower Martian atmosphere, while being inflammable due to lack of oxygen there.

Ordinary air could be a buoyant lifting gas for a balloon probe surveying Venus, given its dense atmosphere.

[Sanjay M]

Read this too:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/10046867/Im ... ene-Sheets

Here's the latest comments from Nair:

Here's the latest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSqn2bPQ-IQ

and another article:

http://www.dailytech.com/Indias+Moon+Mi ... e16133.htm

[Sanjay M]

NASA is investigating balloons for Martian exploration:

http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/technology/balloons/


Solar Montgolfiere Balloon Concept:

[Sanjay M]

What's the word on what science projects are being considered for Chandrayaan-2?

I was thinking that it might be useful to equip the Chandrayaan-2 rover with something like the Mineral Science Laser that the US plans to put on its next rover for Mars.





I think that creating a similar instrument is within Indian and especially Russian technical capabilities (Russia is designing the rover). The laser sampling type of approach would allow a very intimate and detailed prospecting of the lunar surface. Diose-lasers are nice solid-state equipment with a decent lifespan, which would not break down like a drill bit.
Since the Moon receives plenty of solar radiation, I think that there would be no shortage of power to supply such instruments.

[Sridhar]

Cross posting from the Chandrayaan-1 thread.....

Chandrayaan-1 confirms moon was once completely molten
http://beta.thehindu.com/sci-tech/article13939.ece

“It proves beyond doubt the magma ocean hypothesis. There is no other way this massive rock type could be formed,” said Carle Pieters, science manager at the NASA-supported spectroscopy facility at Brown University in the U.S.

s. Pieters also said that the Chandrayaan-1 mission, which was abandoned after communication was lost with the satellite, had thrown up a couple of surprise findings, which included identification of a new rock type on the moon.

[KrishG]

Why isn't there a Lunar X prize team from India ? IIT-Kanpur students had developed a design for a simple lunar rover for Chandrayaan-2(ie before ISRO decided to go to Natasha). Why can't they take forward their work through X-prize ? I really hope they do!

[Sanjay M]

I thought X-prize was not about lunar rover competition, but rather about lunar lander competition.
Otherwise, every Tom, Dick and Harry would be submitting their design for a rover.

I think there needs to be an X-prize competition for an orbital habitat or space station.
I liked the concepts by Bigelow Aerospace, which are based on NASA-developed technology.

http://www.bigelowaerospace.com/

To me, inflatable structures seem like the best way to go -- just inflate it with some kind foam that cures under UV. Developing this level of technology should be right up India's alley. Just embed the wires for communication and power inside the fabric/lamination during its design, so that you can later inflate the structure in space by pumping in the foam/gel, which would then cure/harden under UV to give a fully functional space station. Obviously key components like hatchways, window-ports, and perhaps some key load-bearing members would be pre-fabricated components made from standard engineering alloys/materials. But the rest of the space station structure would simply be composed of cured foam filled in between lamination layers.

The technology for such self-deployable living-habitat systems could first be tested out in the Himalayas, perhaps in harsh places like Ladakh, etc. They could later be hoisted up on large balloon platforms into the upper stratosphere, to test their robustness in "near space" conditions.
Developing such technology might even help us to maintain manned stations in the high Himalayas, which could be useful for scientific and even military purposes.

[Sanjay M]

Furthermore, if such foam-filled habitats were deployed in space, we could put them into a sun-synchronous orbit, so that they are always in the Earth's shadow, protected from the Sun's electromagnetic radiation.

Later on, if they were shifted to the Moon, then they could be similarly kept in the Moon's shadow.

[SwamyG]

It has been quite since I visited www.isro.org. Looks like their website has gone through a redo. Better than last one - still not good enough.

[Sanjay M]

Yeah, ISRO still seems rather backward in the marketing and presentation department, which is a shame for an organization that India is using to showcase its technological capabilities.

Take a look at this recent launch video from the private company SpaceX, for their recent satellite launch:



Look at their nice camera footage showing the breathtaking launch flight trajectory. Look at how professional and polished their launch video is. Compare that to ISRO with a mere plot-graph of the progress of its flight trajectory. We look like a bunch of nose-pickers compared to them. I don't understand why some people are too cheap to put a few cameras on the damn rocket. After having watched countless TV shows of the Americans doing these things for all these decades, we're still too goofy to know to do it too.

A picture is worth a thousand words, and a video is worth much more. Instead we get this crap:



It's a bloody graph plot! This is about as memorable as showing pictures of the staff sweeping the floors.

They do publish beautiful photo stills of the launch facilities, though:

[sunny y]

Hi

For the past couple of days, news reports have been saying that ISRO has employed a special aircraft for the search of YSR's chopper....

Can anybody please tell us which aircraft are they talking about ?
If possible any links for further study.....


Thanks

[Shankar]

may be a dornier with small magnetic anomaly detector -did hear some news channel mention it in passing -but not sure

[Kakarat]

I was the aircraft of National Remote Sensing Agency (NRSA)