India-US News and Discussion

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 27 Aug 2009 00:24

Acharya wrote:I have met some girls similar to the one in the video

A Woman tried to convert me when i used to work in a Cyber Cafe in Mumbai.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 27 Aug 2009 08:16

It could be possible that Ted Kennedy did not think that this deal served any good purpose for India and that is why he opposed it.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Aug 2009 12:00

Acharaya,good review of the book about JFK and his assassination.According to several sources,LBJ and the right wing Texas oil barons were heavily involved.One report also says that Nixon was also in Dallas the day before the deed.LBJ over the phone,allegedly gave orders to try to get a dying statement from Oswald while he was in the operating theatre over the phone (the Doc. who operated on both JFK and Oswald)!

Get hold of "Double Cross",by Sam and Chuck Giancana,brother and nephew of the Chicago mafia boss Sam Giancana.They give full details of how the Mafia,under Giancana,"hit" JFK,RFK,Marilyn Monroe,and others working along with the CIA .According to the Mafia boss,the Mafia and CIA were "two sides of the same coin".JFK was deliberately forced to go to Dallas where with local support the plot was carried out.JFK's father Ambassador Joe Kennedy had been saved by Gianaca from being "hit" for his infamous bootlegging operations in Mafia territory during prohibition days.He brokered a deal whereby the mob helped JFK win the crucial Chicago vote in the presidential election,but JFK and RFK double-crossed the Mafia afterwards reneging as agreed to allow exiled mob leaders like Lucky Luciano back into the US,a go-slow on organised crime prevention,and failed to overthrow Castro (whose revolution saw the mob lose billions in their hotels,casino,vice and other interests in Cuba) chickening out during the Bay of Pigs invasion.JFK blamed the CIA for the debacle and used the opportunity to clean up the CIA sacking Allen Dulles its chief.His brother,John Foster Dulles was in Dallas when JFK was shot.Oswald was a CIA double-agent who had deliberately defected to Russia earlier and was used as the "patsy" (Oswald's own words)for the deed.The Warren Commission was a whitewash.Ruby was not allowed to speak openly.Warren was also part of the cover-up.Two snipers in the famous grassy knoll in front of the cavalcade,shot JFK from the front.His face was later doctored to make it look like the bullet entered from the back despite the Zapruder film showing the opposite.Jack Ruby who shot Oswald later was on Giancana's payroll in Dallas,his job was to pay off the Dallas police for mob favours.The mob carried out several ops for the CIA across the Americas,using a priest "Father cash" to make the pay-offs.

Sirhan,another patsy for the RFK job,owed the mob money.There were more bullets in the pantry where RFK was shot than in Sirhans gun!The assassin was dressed like a cop and shot RFK from behind.Same method was used to hit Aquino.Marilyn was murdered ("Needles" the hit man,gave her an injection up her anus after her doc had given her sedatives) because she had had affairs with both JFK and RFK and GIancana.She was beginning to talk loosely.The mob/CIA needed to expose RFK's relations with her to disgrace him.RFK used the FBI and Hoover to clean up her murder,making it look like a suicide.

Teddy Kennedy did not vigorously pursue his quest for the Presidency because he and the family knew the truh and real reasons for the assassinations of the brothers.They were worried that Teddy would also be hit and that too much of the sordid truth would be revealed.However,he proved to be a truly great Senator,fighting for the rights of the under-priviliged in the US and abroad till the end.

Here's a new film."The Shock Doctrine", on the dubious and damaging US foreign policy.

Excerpt:

The Shock Doctrine examines the way that the free-market policies of Milton Friedman and the Chicago School were forced through in Chile, Russia, Britain and, most recently, Iraq by either exploiting or engineering disasters — coups, floods and wars. It’s an obvious fit for Winterbottom, a left-leaning director in the tradition of his one-time mentor Lindsay Anderson. He had long been a fan of Klein’s journalism and her bestselling first book, No Logo, though he admits that he hadn’t read The Shock Doctrine before Klein approached him about turning a shorter film she had made into something feature length.

Klein suggests a link between economic shock (radical spending cuts, mass unemployment) and the shock therapy practised in the 1950s by the psychiatrist Ewen Cameron, which led to the development of Guantánamo-style torture techniques. It impressed Winterbottom as “a simple and clever idea that makes you look at things in a different way”. He adds: “Naomi harnesses these events, especially the connections between what went on in Chile under Pinochet and what’s going on now in Iraq, which I hadn’t thought of before.”

There was a more personal appeal, too. Winterbottom realised after talking to his own children that their generation knew little or nothing about, say, glasnost or the Falklands conflict. His 18-year-old daughter (the eldest of two) was, he decided, his ideal viewer. “She’s going to be able to vote for the first time at the next election,” he says. “I wanted to communicate the idea that this era she’s grown up in, the era of rampant free-market capitalism, the world hasn’t always been like this. For her, even the Berlin Wall is prehistory. I wanted to do justice to Naomi’s arguments, but for the argument to have force you need knowledge of the facts.” This the film supplies through skilful use of archive footage.

It also incorporates elements from Klein’s original short film: striking animated sequences of prisoners being tortured, based on the CIA’s notorious 1963 KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation manual, intended to instruct US Army specialists in coercive techniques including electric shocks and sleep deprivation.

Winterbottom makes the point that when the current economic crisis hit, many people were not aware that to be pro-Friedman was to adopt a political position: his policies, implemented first by President Reagan and Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s, were the water we all swam in. “I’m an optimist and I think this is a good time to be arguing this case because there’s a possibility we could be talking about a comeback for a Keynesian model,” he says. “Naomi feels differently. She thinks that the powerful people who have benefited from these changes over the years are going to hold on to them. Maybe she’s right. You only have to look at Goldman Sachs paying out record bonuses.”

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 28 Aug 2009 00:16

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20 ... index.html

Some response to this article

But do all paths lead to God? HARDLY!

In a survey of the world's religions, Christianity is still the dominant one, with 2.1 billion believers (33% of the world's population). Islam is next with 1.3 billion (21%), followed by Hinduism (900 million, 14%), Sikhism (23 million, 0.36%), Judaism, Bahaism, Buddhism, etc. Interestingly, atheists number about 1.1 billion (16%). However, the numbers for Islam are inflated a bit, considering that it's essentially forced upon people in countries like Iran or Malaysia.

• Pantheists believe that all life is unity. In particular, they believe that the spirit (atman) is the nonmaterial, intangible self connecting with the concrete world. The concept of reincarnation is also different between Hinduism and Buddhism. Hindus believe in moksha, where you reappear in a new form. Buddhists believe in nirvana, where your moral effect is carried over in a karmic cycle. Each birth is a rebirth, and each birth is a result of karma. The human condition can thus be summarized as misery and opportunity. And, the way to obtain bliss (atman siddhi) is through knowledge, works, and devotion.

Can you get to heaven, according to Christian Orthodoxy, by works? Ephesians 2:9-10 is a hint.

• Hinduism started around 2500 BC. Buddhism started around 500 BC as a response to Hinduism. In general, lower caste Hindus fled to Buddhism because the latter had no vegas and no caste system, thus they felt more valued.

• The goal of Hinduism is unity with an impersonal absolute. The goal of Christianity is communion with the divine, or a relationship with God, a personal being.

As you can see, all paths DO NOT lead to God, nor do they hope to. Add to this scenario the other 21 or so major religions and you can see how ridiculous an idea it is to suggest that all paths lead to God.

negi · Post by **negi** » 28 Aug 2009 10:30

Where is US duplicity and perfidy thread which Shiv ji created ?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 29 Aug 2009 18:57

Heil Heil-Breich!

"Bulldozer" Heil-Break,sorry Holbrooke's frequent hopping into the region on diiplomatic duty has instead has made many of its leaders "hopping" mad,as he has all the diplomatic tact of an Israeli bulldozer heading for Gaza! Having bulldozed the Balkans into warring entities,the Reichs-Fuhrer of the White House,was entrusted by the Messiah,Fuhrer Obama,to shake up the Indian sub-continent in particular the Af-Pak region.Cracking heads together Heil-Breich style may have achieved the desired results in the Balkans,the break-up of the former Yugoslavia,but the bulldozer is finding some stubborn unforseen resistance in our parts.

"Bulldozer" Heil-Briech,was dismayed to find that India's MEA mandarins weren't that eager to engage with him in his sub-continental shuttle-diplomacy,as he had hoped.His demands to meet the highest in our land whenever it suited him raised the hackles of the guardians of our diplomatic protocol.Even the supposedly softy,Subedar "Surrender Singh",was shy of meeting this most important functionary of the Washington Reichstag.While the rent-boys in Islamabad were a-bowing and a-bending to him awaiting his pleasure,he found unexpected insolence fom the Kapitan of Kabul,Karzai,who neither bowed,scraped,genuflected or prostrated himself to the Reichs-Fuhrer.Nor did he hang his head in shame at the manner in which he was conducting his electoral victory, in true sub-continental fashion.Heil-Breich did not find any humour in the time honoured pastime of stuffing of ballot boxes,such a pleasant sport in our region,so much less dangerous than Afghan's national sport Buzkashi.

But Heil-Breich was there on urgent business to engineer that the election produced a winner in the personage of one Dr.Abdullah Abdullah,former Foreign Minister,possesing a more flexible waist and more amenable to obeying the commands of Heil-Breich.Kapitan Karzai however has is not amenable at all to being turfed out into the cold Afghan political night and a slanging match was reported between the two.Spectators are waiting to see which of the two,Kapitan Karzai or Reichs-Fuhrer Heil-Breich gets shafted by an IED in the coming days!

Hamid Karzai’s outburst will not help ‘Bulldozer’ Richard Holbrooke
Catherine Philip, Diplomatic Correspondent

A “battle royal” is exactly what Richard Holbrooke’s detractors feared when he was appointed special envoy to the poisoned chalice of “Afpak”.

Not for nothing did he earn the sobriquet of the Bulldozer while knocking Balkan heads together to bring an end to the Bosnian war.

“Impatience will not solve this problem,” Ahmad Rashid, the veteran Pakistani journalist, warned, “and Holbrooke is an impatient guy.”

Hamid Karzai is a touchy one. All is sunny when you agree with him but he can quickly fly off the handle.

Related Links
Afghan president rows over election 'fraud'
Four British soldiers die for the sake of 150 votes

He was charm itself when I first met him in the days after September 11, 2001; by the time we were reacquainted in Kabul in 2002 he was tiring of his Western overlords and jumped down my throat halfway through a question about the wisdom of cosying up to murderous warlords.

At a press conference the day after his first election in 2005, he was livid at journalists’ questions about the ink scandal, all but walking out of the room at our failure to join in the victory parade.

A leader in The Times lampooning him as “a lonely Pashtun in a Tajik-dominated government” is said to have propelled him into such a rage that he spiked Paddy Ashdown’s candidacy for UN envoy in revenge.

Karzai’s fury will go down well in Afghanistan, where he has struggled to cast off the label of Western stooge. It will not help his relations with Washington.

The two have enjoyedhad a testy relationship from the start, not helped by Holbrooke’s outspoken criticism of Karzai as corrupt and feckless, even before he had been confirmed to the job.

Such criticism did nothing to prevent Mr Karzai from selecting the drug-trafficking warlord Mohammed Qasim Fahim as his running-mate in these elections.

Perhaps the only surprising thing about this bust-up is that it took this long. Even the Bulldozer should have known better than to lose his rag with a foreign head of state. Karzai will not back down and Holbrooke cannot afford to. Where does he go from here?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 814306.ece

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 30 Aug 2009 11:32

Camelot or estrangement: US-India relations in Obama era

By Harold A. Gould
Hillary Clinton, America’s Secretary of State in the Obama administration, made her pilgrimage to India (July 17-21) for the purpose of determining the nature of the relationship which the world’s two largest democracies will pursue with each other now that the George W. Bush administration has run its course.

There is a touch of almost romantic irony in the fact that for the first time in US history the country’s foreign policy has been conducted in sequence and across successive administrations by women secretaries of state.

This is an especially poignant fact with respect to US-India relations because Clinton’s predecessor, Condoleezza Rice, during her tenure as secretary of state (June 26, 2005, to Jan 20, 2009) is credited with being a leading proponent of the Bush administration’s late-blooming determination to forge a strategic relationship between the US and India, while Hillary Clinton, during her tenure as first lady during the Clinton administration in the 1990s, helped create the favourable atmosphere that paved the way for her husband’s epoch-making “de-linking” of US policy towards India and Pakistan.

The Bush policy towards South Asia was a striking manifestation of a growing diminution of the influence of the neo-conservative faction which had dominated American foreign policy throughout the president’s first term, and had wrought the disastrous Iraq war, burgeoning budget deficits in order to fund it, diminished American international prestige, and mounting controversy over the propagation of state-sponsored torture such as water-boarding and so-called ‘rendition’ (transporting prisoners to countries that condone torture).

One of the first symptoms of the political disarray which heralded this diminution in neo-con influence on president Bush was the resignation of General Colin Powell that created the vacancy in the State Department which Condoleezza Rice could then occupy. Rice had been head of the National Security Council, enjoyed a special insider relationship with the president, and was known to be an advocate of a more flexible, less ideologically strident approach to foreign policy, including rapprochement with India.

Rice, in fact, regarded democratic India as an especially fertile venue for demonstrating her determination to significantly alter the tone and objectives of American diplomacy throughout the world.

Her status as secretary of state with the power, prestige and flexibility to uninhibitedly shape the Bush administration’s foreign policy was materially enhanced by the departure of then defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and then deputy defence secretary Paul Wolfowitz, from the Pentagon, and perhaps even more crucially, by a gradual estrangement between Bush and the supreme proponent of neo-con doctrine, then vice president Dick Cheney.

Originally designated by the neo-con establishment as ‘keeper’ of a politically inexperienced George W. Bush, Cheney had originally been the undisputed power behind the throne who called the political shots. But with the passage of time, Bush gained confidence, ‘grew into the job’, as it were, and with new, more stable advisers, like Ms Rice, and Robert Gates as secretary of defence, in the face of mounting failure of key neo-con policies, both at home and abroad, grew more independent. As a recent Washington Post article stated: “In the second term, (Cheney) felt Bush was moving away from him.” And this was true.

It will be the task of history to determine whether this trend was the inevitable result of Bush’s ‘on-the job maturation’, or the by-product of increased intercession by the father, former president George Herbert Walker Bush, and his more senior, politically mature associates like General Brent Scowcroft and James A. Baker.

Cheney’s emerging successor, as far as influencing foreign policy is concerned, was Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. Her goal was to bring American foreign policy back into the mainstream of international diplomacy, and within the ambit of this altered conception of the use of American power, latitude for a formalised strategic relationship with India.

Thanks to her initiative and the diplomatic skills of her principal assistant, then under secretary of state for political affairs Nicholas J. Burns, the Non-Proliferation Enhancement Act was signed Oct 10, 2008.

One of the least appreciated aspects of the process which led to this momentously important rapprochement between the world’s two largest democracies was the outcome of the remarkable two-and-a-half-year dialogue between Strobe Talbott, the Clinton administration’s deputy secretary of state, and Jaswant Singh, then India’s external affairs minister in the Bharatiya Janata Party-led government of Atal Bihari Vajpayee.

As is well known, the two diplomats met 14 times between June 1998 and September 2000. The outcome of this dialogue unquestionably created the foundation for the strategic agreement that ultimately was achieved by the Bush administration through Condoleezza Rice and Nicholas Burns, and whatever might follow under the aegis of Hillary Clinton and the Obama administration.

But contrary to the conventional assumptions about why the Talbott-Singh dialogue achieved what it did (that there was a profound meeting of minds and sentiments between the two men), the actual reason was because India had neither signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) nor ratified the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT).

Had it been otherwise, Talbott by his own admission, in his book (”Engaging India: Diplomacy, Democracy and The Bomb”), concedes that the US probably would not have been able to achieve any treaty arrangement which allowed India to retain a nuclear weapons capability on the terms it sought for itself. This is because the non-proliferation constraints inherent in these treaties, combined with the influence of the non-proliferation lobby in the United States, would have prevented it.

Quite apart from the technical issues, Talbott admits that had the NPT and CTBT been in effect under US and international law, he himself would have insisted on an agreement between the two countries dependent on India’s conformity to the letter of the treaties’ non-proliferation strictures. He was not in his heart personally favourably disposed towards India achieving the special status it sought and obtained through some sort of agreement.

In the actual circumstances, therefore, Talbott bowed to a kind of ad hoc pragmatism, partially at least because: “Jaswant Singh achieved more of his objectives than I achieved of mine.” It was, in other words, because Jaswant Singh proved to be a highly, skilled and ethical negotiator who convinced Talbott that any agreement that could be had would have to be based on allowing India to retain her weapons capability and re-processing rights, and trusting that India would be a morally responsible nuclear state despite the misgivings of the orthodox non-proliferation community.

So now Hillary Clinton and President Obama are the legatees of this somewhat arcane process which led to the US-Indian Strategic Agreement which entitles India to remain a respectable nuclear power in the eyes of the international community, buttressed with an array of special ties to America. Secretary Clinton and India’s External Affairs Minister S.M. Krishna issued a joint statement in which they “agreed to strengthen the existing bilateral relationships and mechanisms for cooperation…”

What remains questionable is how harmoniously this relationship will endure when the differences in perspective between the new administration and its predecessor surface on the critical issues of non-proliferation and global climate change. In the words of Strobe Talbott: “Mr. Obama… is committed to ratifying the CTBT, strengthening the NPT, and pursuing other treaties to prevent the spread of dangerous material and technology.”
Should this happen, the zone of ambiguity which benefitted the Talbott-Singh dialogue will disappear, which will pave the way for the re-entry of the non-proliferation hardliners back into the fray, and lead to US-Indian relations, including the strategic agreement, relapsing back into ‘estrangement’.
Since Obama also favours replacement of the Kyoto protocol with “a treaty-based climate-control regime including India, China and other emerging powers”, this could become another area of stress and tension down the road.

Should this happen, it remains to be seen if the now substantial Indian-American community would become a new variable in mediating and ameliorating differences between the two countries.

But whatever happens, it must be realised that the last 20 years of Camelot might be facing some serious challenges.

(Harold Gould is a visiting scholar in the Centre for South Asian Studies at the University of Virginia. He can be contacted at [email protected])

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 30 Aug 2009 14:34

Times TV reports that a US report says that Pak has modified its 165 Harpoon anti-ship missiles and P-3 Orions,so that these missiles can be used for land attack against India.IS there anything new in pak using US military eqpt. given to them by the US (for other uses ) against India?It has been doing this right from the '60s.The US has not learnt its lesson or more accurately has beefed up its rent-boy to check a resurgent free India.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Aug 2009 00:53

a little OT but funny.

To Molly - A brief Geography lesson

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 31 Aug 2009 00:55

Philip wrote:Times TV reports that a US report says that Pak has modified its 165 Harpoon anti-ship missiles and P-3 Orions,so that these missiles can be used for land attack against India.IS there anything new in pak using US military eqpt. given to them by the US (for other uses ) against India?It has been doing this right from the '60s.The US has not learnt its lesson or more accurately has beefed up its rent-boy to check a resurgent free India.

Given the end user agreements that US Govt requires, it is impossible to believe that there is something for US to learn here. US knew this from the beginning and just trying to put some sort of pressure on pukes.

arun · Post by **arun** » 31 Aug 2009 14:00

More of the usual

.

The US back pedals with regard to Pakistan’s responsibility for the July 2008 suicide bombing of the Indian Embassy in Kabul.

On the question of responsibility, all the National Counter Terrorism Centre, a US Government body, has to say is:

No group claimed responsibility although some Afghan officials blamed the Pakistani-based Taliban.

2008 NCTC Report on Terrorism

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Aug 2009 14:05

how exactly does pak have the expertise to replace the ASM harpoon seeker and firmware with a land attack SLAM type ?
thats a hard task by any yardstick. SLAM has a optical window
for image sensor.

methinks they gave a few to the Tongchi, who replaced the entire seeker section with a new section lifted from their cruise missiles keeping the amt of power drawn from battery as same and weight same.

americans are playing dumb now...they knew very well where
the stuff would end up.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Sep 2009 03:14

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/28/nyregion/28choir.html

Old Faith Innovates in a New Land
James Estrin/The New York Times

Michael Sample directing the choir of the Ganesha Temple in Flushing, Queens. A temple choir is a rarity in Hinduism. More Photos >

Article Tools Sponsored By
By JONATHAN ALLEN
Published: August 27, 2009

With less than an hour to go before the newly formed Hindu temple choir would make its debut, there was time for only a few final run-throughs of the hymn that had been prepared.
“Don’t rush!” implored the conductor, Michael Sample, as the singers surged ahead of the accompanying keyboard’s programmed beat.

About 50 singers had gathered on Sunday morning in the senior center across the street from the Ganesha Temple, operated by the Hindu Temple Society of North America, in Flushing, Queens. They would be performing on the busiest day of the temple calendar — the first day of the festival dedicated to Ganesha, the elephant-headed god.

Ganesha is revered as the remover of obstacles, and his festival is considered an auspicious time to begin new endeavors, not least an experiment in adapting an old religion for a new land. And of the singers, most of whom grew up in India, none had ever heard of a Hindu choir before.

“For us as Indians to learn a whole new thing is wonderful,” said Raji Samant, a member of the choir who runs a bookkeeping business in the city. She said she was drawn by the choir’s novelty.

Choirs are virtually unheard of in temples in India because worshipers tend not to cohere into anything resembling an attentive congregation, said Vasudha Narayanan, a professor of religion and the director of the Center for the Study of Hindu Traditions at the University of Florida.

“People come and go as they please within the temple hours, and it’s more individual prayers,” she said in a telephone interview.

While there are numerous musical traditions that have sprung from Hinduism, they tend to favor solos and improvisation, in keeping with the individualistic and free-flowing nature of Hindu worship, Professor Narayanan said.

She sees the choir as a “gentle process of Americanization” — a kind of adaptation of Hindu traditions to be more “recognizable” to the children of Hindu immigrants and the broader American public.

In Queens, there was a little skepticism at first, said Uma Mysorekar, the president of the temple, one of the largest and oldest Hindu temples in the country. “In the beginning people were a little bit upset with this word ‘choir,’ ” she said. “ ‘Choir — what is this?’ It’s not generally used among Hindus; it’s connected to a Christian choir.”

Resistance quickly faded as Chandrika Tandon, the choir’s founder, who grew up in South India, communicated the joy she had encountered in the gospel choirs of Harlem and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

Nearly 200 people showed up after fliers advertising auditions were posted in the temple and on its Web site in March.

On Sunday, after a final pep talk from Ms. Tandon, the singers, men dressed in kurtas — collarless cotton tunics — in varying shades of cream, and women swathed in embroidered fabrics of deep maroon, padded across Bowne Street in their socks or bare feet and joined the devotees pouring into the temple.

The choir stood crowded into a corner at the rear of the temple near the door, a sea of devotees’ backs between them and the temple’s holiest space, the ornate chamber that houses an image of Ganesha.

For a moment, nothing happened. Then the keyboard’s beat came to life, soon joined by the tabla and harmonium. The choir launched into song: “Om! Ganesha Sharanam!” the choristers sang, in praise of the deity.

Some devotees turned to look over their shoulders. A few began clapping in time. Others started mouthing along to the words. Not everyone was rapt: some continued their conversations, and two bare-chested priests standing nearby chatted and joked.

Nine minutes after they began, the choristers came to a sudden climax with a final “Sharanam Ganesha!”

There swiftly followed another sound rarely heard in the temple: applause. But not for long. Dr. Mysorekar, the temple president, hushed it as soon as she could. “In this temple, the Lord has supremacy,” she explained afterward.

The audience response was politely approving. “I was not expecting it at all,” said Navin Mithal, a retired flight engineer. But he said he liked it: “I was singing along inside me.”

A priest came over and said he had never heard anything like it, in a good way. Then came a clamoring of bells, drums and a woodwind as a palanquin bearing another garlanded image of Ganesha was lifted high.

Devotees rushed to their feet, some heading for the palanquin’s procession, others for a corner of the temple for private prayer, others still for the exit.

The brief experiment in unison was over for now. The familiar disorder was restored.

With one song already under its belt, the choir will resume rehearsals of another work — a medley of “America the Beautiful” and “Vande Mataram” (“Bow to Thee, Mother”), India’s national song. Its ultimate plan is to become a temple fixture. “First,” Ms. Tandon said, “we need to expand our repertoire.”

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Sep 2009 03:20

The Flushing N.Y. Ganesha Temple was one of the first to be constructed in the mid 70's. After that the Pittsburgh Temple was the next big one.

paramu · Post by **paramu** » 01 Sep 2009 04:19

Acharya wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/28/nyregion/28choir.html

Old Faith Innovates in a New Land
James Estrin/The New York Times

What is this? Christianization of a Hindu temple?

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 01 Sep 2009 04:40

^^ paramuji. Please google U-turn theory by Rajeev Malhotra. That's precisely why dharma should be decentralized and there should million paths within the dharmic panth. This will ensure that no one is able to hijack. although there is very steep attempt to usurp many of them. Key people are targetted and many blindingly oblivious to the fact follow them like lemmings. Here is a link: http://www.iisc.ernet.in/prasthu/pages/ ... /uturn.pdf .

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 01 Sep 2009 07:23

Why do they say that there is no tradition of harmonized group worship in temples? Nama sankeertanam is a well established form of worship across India. Great saints across the land have been at the forefront in creating beautiful compositions in several Indian languages and they are celebrated to this day in temples across India too.

In the south the pasurams of thirupavai and the compositions of nayanmars are sung by oduvars; there is a tradition of oonchavrithis and group singing during the month of margazhi. The Ganesh Bhajans during Ganesh Festival, the abhangs of Mahrashtra, the Meera Bhajans and Jagrans in the North are all examples of group worship through music and singing. Choir is just a western terms. The idea is not new. Perhaps those who spoke are not familiar with the living traditions of India?

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 01 Sep 2009 07:42

Raja Ramji, you are more than correct. Anyone who bothers to know the meaning of thirupaavi, and pirati's call for worship in public domain; would not make statements about no tradition of harmonized group worship. Sat sangs, Bhajans are all part of the schemes. I'm sure you are aware of "Impressing the Whites" by Richard Crasta. The sepoy syndrome is tough to get rid of. It has taken many a sepoys to places where they otherwise couldn't dream of.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Sep 2009 08:40

JwalaMukhi wrote:Raja Ramji, you are more than correct. Anyone who bothers to know the meaning of thirupaavi, and pirati's call for worship in public domain; would not make statements about no tradition of harmonized group worship. Sat sangs, Bhajans are all part of the schemes. I'm sure you are aware of "Impressing the Whites" by Richard Crasta. The sepoy syndrome is tough to get rid of. It has taken many a sepoys to places where they otherwise couldn't dream of.

Probably this will give rise to American Hindu Sampradaya

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 01 Sep 2009 08:47

OT:

I was there last week while visiting New York. The temple is undergoing construction.

If you do go there, don't miss the cafeteria. The food was delicious

. I am not kidding.

ramana wrote:The Flushing N.Y. Ganesha Temple was one of the first to be constructed in the mid 70's. After that the Pittsburgh Temple was the next big one.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 01 Sep 2009 17:28

TIME: US-Pakistan Missile Spat

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 01 Sep 2009 18:06

I second Raja Ram's view. Anyone that says that there is no harmonized worship in Hinduism need only come to Chennai, in particular to Mylapore or Mambalam very early in the morning during the Tamil month of Margazhi. Even in the US, I remember taking part in a mass chanting of Vishnu Sahasranamam at a temple in New Jersey. In fact, whether it is for a wedding or to signify the end of the ritual mourning period (12th day) after someone's passing, my family traditions have always included group chanting of vedas, i.e "Veda Parayanam".

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 01 Sep 2009 18:14

I'm sure you are aware of "Impressing the Whites" by Richard Crasta.

Here it is:

http://www.richardcrasta.com/impressing_the_whites.htm

bahdada · Post by **bahdada** » 02 Sep 2009 20:48

‘Lord of the Flies’ at U.S. Embassy in Kabul?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32644749/ns ... tral_asia/
Oversight group: Workers subjected to hazing, other inappropriate behavior
NBC News and news services

WASHINGTON - Guards hired by the State Department to protect diplomats and staff at the U.S. Embassy in Afghanistan live and work in a "Lord of the Flies" environment in which they are subjected to hazing and other inappropriate behavior by supervisors, a government oversight group charged Tuesday.

...
Lurid conditions described in e-mail
One e-mail from a guard describes lurid conditions at Camp Sullivan, the guards' quarters a few miles from the embassy. The message described scenes of abuse including guards and supervisors urinating on people and "threats and intimidation from those leaders participating in this activity."

Photographs show guards and supervisors in various stages of nudity at parties that took place near the housing of other supervisors.
....

Nearly two-thirds of the embassy guards are Gurkhas from Nepal and northern India who don't speak adequate English, a situation that creates communications breakdowns, the group says. Pantomime is often used to convey orders and instructions.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 03 Sep 2009 00:00

May be Molly is doing a Borat act and people are going nuts

Shows how poor job she did in making that short video

Ameet · Post by **Ameet** » 04 Sep 2009 01:31

Lawmakers approved other bills involving public safety:

* AB 504 would provide sensitivity training so police officers do not improperly arrest members of the Sikh faith for carrying a kirpan, a religious article resembling a dagger. The measure has passed the Assembly.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... 0159.story

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 04 Sep 2009 02:49

Ameet wrote:Lawmakers approved other bills involving public safety:

* AB 504 would provide sensitivity training so police officers do not improperly arrest members of the Sikh faith for carrying a kirpan, a religious article resembling a dagger. The measure has passed the Assembly.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... 0159.story

Urelated, fwiw, my previous "orange" advisory of being very very wary has changed based on very recent experience to "avoid at all cost if you value your dignity". From someone who is now stuck on the wrong side of the pond. No amount of laws/training will change anything now.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 06 Sep 2009 23:19

I have a few serious concerns of how congress is ruling our country though they came back to power second time. Because there is no strong opposition at present as BJP is messing up with their infight and so there is no proper constructive criticism of the present Indian government. Also I am really worried the way Sonia and her group makes influence on the political decision regarding foreign policy. I must say this concern is not linked her being a foreigner rather her non-firm directions and their groups unskilled foreign tactics do not work rather isolate India altogether. Krishna is good for IT and management. He is not good for foreign policies. There should be someone who has a good external relationship and experience should become the foreign minister. There are a number of recent failures such as isolating India in G8 and Pakistan's courage to prepare for another attack and Chinese courageous incursions are all part of the failures of Indian government at present. India has been successfully isolated by Chinese policy at present. India has to take a strong step to build up good relationship with US and others too. In terms of buying updated arms we must go for US. Indian government should engage with president Obama particularly arms trading and other relationship. We must move forward in terms of missile defence systems. We should avoid personality clashes with Obama. Ground work needs to be done even in arms trading such as F16 and other defense systems to buy from US and also from an country who is ready to give up well protected systems against China and any other countries who threaten to support terror in India or make incursions in India.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 08 Sep 2009 06:31

correction to the above post
I mean either F16s or F 18s or even F 22s (if there is any chance?!), Patriach missiles and also Missile defence systems...

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 09 Sep 2009 02:37

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32723625/ns ... ite_house/

One young person asked the president whom he would choose to dine with if he could make only one such selection.

"Gandhi," Obama replied. "He's somebody I find a lot of inspiration in. He inspired Dr. (Martin Luther) King" with his message of nonviolence.

"He ended up doing so much and changed the world just by the power of his ethics," Obama said of the inspirational leader Mahatma Gandhi. At another point, Obama told the students that "a lot of people are counting on me."

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 09 Sep 2009 02:41

As I said, Ombaba.

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 09 Sep 2009 07:12

Please protest against the depiction of the map of India on the MIT (www.mit.edu) website that is not showing J&K not as part of India. It is even more unfortunate that the webpage is announcing a forthcoming talk by Chief of the Planning Commission, Shri Montek Singh Ahluwalia at MIT. Mail your protests at

[email protected]

Here was my protest:

The map of India depicted on the MIT homepage is misrepresented. Why is the state of Jammu and Kashmir not shown as part of the map? This amounts to dissemination of misinformation regarding the territorial integrity of India. It is even more unfortunate that this is part of the announcement of the forthcoming speech by the Chief of the Planning Commission of India. Such a misrepresentation is not expected from an institution such as MIT. Hope the misrepresentation will be rectified.

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 09 Sep 2009 18:02

I sent a protest mail yesterday to MIT for misrepresntation of the map of India. Here is what I received as reply from MIT. MIT updates it website every 12 hours. So that main page is no longer there. I should have saved it for future reference.

I do no think the representation is politically motivated. Assam is also not represented. JP

Something is really brewing....J&K, Arunachal etc.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 Sep 2009 22:30

Abhi_G wrote:I sent a protest mail yesterday to MIT for misrepresntation of the map of India. Here is what I received as reply from MIT. MIT updates it website every 12 hours. So that main page is no longer there. I should have saved it for future reference.

I do no think the representation is politically motivated. Assam is also not represented. JP
Something is really brewing....J&K, Arunachal etc.

This is the political map of India which is being approved by all the states which have interest inside India. THis tells us what is the status of the Indian state in the comity of nation. It should also tell why India does not get nominated for UNSC seat and all four letter treaty is against India.

THey may even create a coalition of states which is directly against Indian state.

a_kumar · Post by **a_kumar** » 09 Sep 2009 22:56

Wasn't Google going to take care of misrepresenting Arunachal?

Only change I see now is that it doesn't display names in Chinese script. Arunachal Pradesh is still shown as disputed territory (dotted lines).. was that how it was in Google way back? I can't recollect.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Sep 2009 23:03

People in India should raise hue and cry that GOI officials are presiding over functions where there are cartographic misrepresentations.

Can BRF members in Delhi gather together and issue a statement?

a_kumar · Post by **a_kumar** » 09 Sep 2009 23:05

Abhi_G wrote:I sent a protest mail yesterday to MIT for misrepresntation of the map of India. Here is what I received as reply from MIT. MIT updates it website every 12 hours. So that main page is no longer there. I should have saved it for future reference.

I do no think the representation is politically motivated. Assam is also not represented. JP
Something is really brewing....J&K, Arunachal etc.

You should publish that email in a blog or something.. can you please forward it to akumar2000 at mailcity dot com?

archan · Post by **archan** » 10 Sep 2009 19:27

US supports India's stand on conditions for talks with Pak

Ahead of a crucial meeting between Union Home Minister P Chidambaram and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, the Obama Administration came out in support of India's stand on pre-conditions for talks with Pakistan.

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 10 Sep 2009 19:48

a_kumar wrote:
You should publish that email in a blog or something.. can you please forward it to akumar2000 at mailcity dot com?

a_kumar-ji, the best thing would be is to write a barrage of mails to Shri Ahluwalia along with links to that website which is not possible since I did not save the webpage. Nevertheless informing him will still be the best option. I am going to do that. It does not matter whether babus respond or not. But we should respond if there are cartographic violations by "renowned" institutions inviting the babus.

Here is Shri Ahluwalia's contact info:
[email protected]

from
http://planningcommission.gov.in/aboutus/dch.html

a_kumar · Post by **a_kumar** » 11 Sep 2009 00:13

Abhi_G wrote: a_kumar-ji, the best thing would be is to write a barrage of mails to Shri Ahluwalia along with links to that website which is not possible since I did not save the webpage. Nevertheless informing him will still be the best option. I am going to do that. It does not matter whether babus respond or not. But we should respond if there are cartographic violations by "renowned" institutions inviting the babus.

Here is Shri Ahluwalia's contact info:
[email protected]

from
http://planningcommission.gov.in/aboutus/dch.html

(Thanks for the "ji", I would rather you dont

)

Ahbi, It is important to bring it to Ahluwalia's attention. But do note that there is nothing he can do about it as there is no proof (except his email to you). Guess it will prepare him in case they put up the map in his presence. But they may very well put up the right map this time.. who knows.

Going by his brazen response, I am bound to think it is a "symptom" and not "mistake". We cannot realistically watch the MIT page every day to see if the "symptom" reoccurs. What I am focussing on is the root of this, hence the request to forward the email. I understand if you have concerns and we can consider this closed.

Only way to ensure such things don't repeat is raising by it with the folks responsible for it.. in this case "Jason Pontin" with enough people in CC. And the thing about "Even Assam is not shown" is outrageous, because it shows he is well familiar with Indian NE states (unlike several western commentators). I guess in his mind it was supposed to justify misrepresenting other parts, but it just enrages me to know there is more.

If its not political, then I would be interested in finding out what other rationale there is to alter India's map. Its not like India map without Assam is commonly available so one can copy paste it.

Or maybe its all a case of me missing something in rest of the email...