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Now we hear of a "China Study Group" - a bunch of bureaucrats that's been putting restrictions on the army for a while by the looks of it. Restrictions of this kind only serve to weaken our claim on the border areas - quite simply if you don't assert ownership - by regular patrols, your hold on the land is weakened.
Both China and Pakistan have been playing the good cop bad cop game with India for God knows how long and it appears that India's bright bureaucrats haven't learned how to counter it.
It also quoted an unnamed military source as telling the paper, a sister publication of the ruling Communist Party's mouthpiece, The People's Daily, that the UAE airplane, a C-130 Hercules, was on a mission transporting Chinese arms from an arms expo in Abu Dhabi.
India released the China-bound cargo plane on September 10, four days after it was grounded in Kolkata for not declaring the consignment of arms and ammunition it was carrying.
if this news is indeed true(havent seen reported anywhere else), then i have to say 4 days of going over design etc of panda weaponary is always a good thing.
now wouldnt it be nice to know what "arms and ammunition" was it carrying ?
^^^
the same news has been discussed b4 on Indo-China news thread in Strat forum.
It is quiet an expected move from chinks.But is unfortunate that analysts on rediff failed to show thier bit of nationalism.
Mr B.Raman a former secretary did commented on the same issue and again being such an experienced person he failed to point the faults of the crew to show the right documents at the right time instead he blamed the Indian media for the hysteria..
Our units with personnel from hilly areas will be essential for any showdown with dragon.
My friends and family members serving IA in high altitude areas always say this. The hilly
brothers with short and stout structures are more agile in hilly areas and can better adjust
with terrain.
Anyway, what do you make of this? ....
Morcha plans own ‘army’
The Telegraph, Kolkata, Sept 14, 2009
Darjeeling, Sept. 13: The Gorkha Janmukti Morcha will raise a “guerrilla” force to “protect the country’s frontiers” in case of a Chinese aggression, Bimal Gurung said today.
“I’m informing the government of this (through the speech) because it must provide the arms training,” the Morcha chief said. Another leader claimed that the hill outfit had “borrowed the idea from the people of Ladakh who had formed volunteer forces when Pakistan had invaded India”.
Gurung said the 500-strong force would be named after Durga Malla — a member of Subhas Chandra Bose’s INA.
Sorry for the double post, just spotted something on the various web fora I trawl through.
These are pics of Chinese troops relocating from guangzhou to the Xinjiang autonomous region. Would they need automatic weapons for riot control? Me thinks not!
A question Out Of Curiosity, If Hostilities do break along the border. Can India expect any sort of support from Chinese occupied Tibet .. I guess it can a significant phase in battle if india is somehow able to bring uprising ... It can be a knee breaker for Chinese .IMHO RAW modules need to be activated across the border ...
Kati wrote:Our units with personnel from hilly areas will be essential for any showdown with dragon.
My friends and family members serving IA in high altitude areas always say this. The hilly
brothers with short and stout structures are more agile in hilly areas and can better adjust
with terrain.
Anyway, what do you make of this? ....
Morcha plans own ‘army’
The Telegraph, Kolkata, Sept 14, 2009
Darjeeling, Sept. 13: The Gorkha Janmukti Morcha will raise a “guerrilla” force to “protect the country’s frontiers” in case of a Chinese aggression, Bimal Gurung said today.
“I’m informing the government of this (through the speech) because it must provide the arms training,” the Morcha chief said. Another leader claimed that the hill outfit had “borrowed the idea from the people of Ladakh who had formed volunteer forces when Pakistan had invaded India”.
Gurung said the 500-strong force would be named after Durga Malla — a member of Subhas Chandra Bose’s INA.
This is were SSB, before it's reorganisation, would have been useful to train and equip partisan groups if there is an large scale invasion. They sadly turned it into just another border guarding force. Would be great if SSB has retained some of the elements which can train people in "stay behind" warfare.
mountain trails and helis does permit capability to lift troops and light guns/mortars. but needs lot of effort to concentrate enough men and materials to dislodge strong defences.
the 1962 military and political leadership did not exactly cover themselves with high glory in the big decisions. as always it was the field units who were the fall guys.
hopefully things are different now - we will know soon I expect .
Just bought Neville Maxwell's 'India's China War'. While the book gives good historical background and discusses the Military aspect of the war, the focus is primarily on the historical perspective and them contemporary happenings like Nehru's policies and roles, BM Kaul, Menon et all.
Can any one advise on a correct book which provides in depth analysis of the military aspect of the 62 war? Also, the western sector seems to be always sidelined in any 62 discussion. I want a book which can cover both the aspects evenly. I'm aware of Brig. Dalvi's book.
rohitvats wrote:Just bought Neville Maxwell's 'India's China War'. While the book gives good historical background and discusses the Military aspect of the war, the focus is primarily on the historical perspective and them contemporary happenings like Nehru's policies and roles, BM Kaul, Menon et all.
Can any one advise on a correct book which provides in depth analysis of the military aspect of the 62 war? Also, the western sector seems to be always sidelined in any 62 discussion. I want a book which can cover both the aspects evenly. I'm aware of Brig. Dalvi's book.
Read all the books available.
They are basically glorifying themselves to justify their incompetence.
If they were so good and the situation was hopeless as they claim, then they should have resigned rather than lose a war badly directed right from the GOI policies and directives.
Why did they hang on if things were not to their liking and professional instincts?
As far as the foreign commentators, they too have an axe to grind!
[quote="pandyan"]china has installed cameras on the border?
best soln is to use paint ball guns and every morning cover the camera with paint ....that will keep them busy...or better still let them clean the bird poops (aka defending the feces...thanks NPR)[/quote]
Why lasers when paint can do the job just as well? Ever heard the joke about NASA spending a million dollars in coming up with a pen that could write in space? The soviets just used a pencil...
Why lasers when paint can do the job just as well? Ever heard the joke about NASA spending a million dollars in coming up with a pen that could write in space? The soviets just used a pencil...
Yeah that joke is a classic. Satire at its best in a joke IMO.
A question Out Of Curiosity, If Hostilities do break along the border. Can India expect any sort of support from Chinese occupied Tibet .. I guess it can a significant phase in battle if india is somehow able to bring uprising ... It can be a knee breaker for Chinese .IMHO RAW modules need to be activated across the border ...
Just my thought.
Why is HH Dalai Lama suddenly visiting Arunachal?
And why is China so jittery over it, apart from delusive bunkum like South Tibet?!
Yeah that joke is a classic. Satire at its best in a joke IMO.[/quote]
Hate to spoil the joke...but it was the graphite particles which were geting ingested in the delicate instruments onboard which lead to americans develop the pen.
And why is China so jittery over it, apart from delusive bunkum like South Tibet?!
Brigadier Sir, Well I would not peep deep into Dalai Lama 's Visit. He was in fact blocked by GOI earlier to go to arunachal pradesh . So this visit is not sudden. just appear to be another psy op by GOI against Chinese in response to there incursions ... A Humble way to say that we don't care.... But that is just my guess..
But if i got it right towards the point you made that . If We have the desire Dalai Lama can ceratinly provide the resources to effectively mobilize our friends across the border against PLA and somehow i do believe that this will be massive punch across their face ..But again it is just my opinion and wih IA commanders do really draw attention towards it as the best thing with this idea would be you need not go to war with Chinese and can start it now !!!
RayC wrote:
Why is HH Dalai Lama suddenly visiting Arunachal?
Dalai Lama was earlier invited to inaugurate a hydro-electric project in Arunachal Pr by the CM, and bless the people too. His current itinerary on his webpage does not have a listing for mid-November when he was supposed to go to AP. We will have to wait and see if he actually makes it, too far ahead.
Basic question: What kind of camouflage are these? Rainforest? Also, for the blue color for the APC, what is that for?
Added: Asked Google...may have found the answer.
The whitewall "tires" are commie parade tradition, and not part of the standard camouflage. The pixelated camouflage is new, and I'm not sure if the PLA will retain it after the festivities are over. The pixelated blue camouflage for the Air Force SAM units and Naval shore based anti-ship missiles are definitely not standard and one off, they are to identify for on-lookers the PLAAF and PLAN respectively and distinguish them from the PLA. Normally they share the same camouflage pattern as the PLA.
The parade seems to be celebrations for Mao's butchering party from the the long walk, aka: PRC 60th year celebrations. Video link of a parade here
If you were taking aim against an armada of these vehicles coming towards the beach, the blue merging with blue background would be difficult to see. At least it would be better than green or brown. Once the beach is secure, green painted stuff of the PLA will roll forward. In theory.
The whitewall "tires" are commie parade tradition, and not part of the standard camouflage. The pixelated camouflage is new, and I'm not sure if the PLA will retain it after the festivities are over. The pixelated blue camouflage for the Air Force SAM units and Naval shore based anti-ship missiles are definitely not standard and one off, they are to identify for on-lookers the PLAAF and PLAN respectively and distinguish them from the PLA. Normally they share the same camouflage pattern as the PLA.
RayC wrote:
Why is HH Dalai Lama suddenly visiting Arunachal?
Dalai Lama was earlier invited to inaugurate a hydro-electric project in Arunachal Pr by the CM, and bless the people too. His current itinerary on his webpage does not have a listing for mid-November when he was supposed to go to AP. We will have to wait and see if he actually makes it, too far ahead.
That is one thing that India can avoid not just cause it upsets the Chinese but because AP was in not so long ago part of the Tibet. This does not bode well for India too.
AmitR wrote:
That is one thing that India can avoid not just cause it upsets the Chinese but because AP was in not so long ago part of the Tibet. This does not bode well for India too.
I think China will find a reason to upset itself no matter what we do. The day we start controlling the movement of Dalai Lama in India is the day we would have a made another mistake in a long list of blunders regarding China and Tibetan people would have lost even more hope of ever having their own independent homeland – The way it should be.
AmitR wrote:
That is one thing that India can avoid not just cause it upsets the Chinese but because AP was in not so long ago part of the Tibet. This does not bode well for India too.
I think China will find a reason to upset itself no matter what we do. The day we start controlling the movement of Dalai Lama in India is the day we would have a made another mistake in a long list of blunders regarding China and Tibetan
people would have lost even more hope of ever having their own independent homeland – The way it should be.
I second with Vijay...
Come on yaar Amit...I was feeling happy that at last Indian govt has started putting a brave front wrt China....
Let us not worry that some one sitting in China will be upset if Dalai Lama visits AP.
Let's not be defensive...it is time to show that we are NOT worried of anyone in the world... even if that is US of A or China...we have to do what is right to us...not to please someone else or NOT to worry abt some one else....
AmitR wrote:
That is one thing that India can avoid not just cause it upsets the Chinese but because AP was in not so long ago part of the Tibet. This does not bode well for India too.
I think China will find a reason to upset itself no matter what we do. The day we start controlling the movement of Dalai Lama in India is the day we would have a made another mistake in a long list of blunders regarding China and Tibetan people would have lost even more hope of ever having their own independent homeland – The way it should be.
Vijay/Mahesh, I don't think I made myself very clear. Allowing DLama in AP can cause some serious problems for India in future as the indigenous people of AP are of Tibetan origin. We don't want another separatist movement in India do we?
AmitR wrote:
Vijay/Mahesh, I don't think I made myself very clear. Allowing DLama in AP can cause some serious problems for India in future as the indigenous people of AP are of Tibetan origin. We don't want another separatist movement in India do we?
Amit, I think on the contrary not allowing Dalai Lama ji to visit any place he wants to in India will cause that separatist movement that you are talking about. The people of the Tawang valley would prefer to live in India where they can practice their religion rather than with China or by themselves, where they can be easily targeted by China for another conquest.
Dalai Lama ji, is on our side his presence will soothe the tibetan population there and not antagonize it.
Whenever, Tibet becomes free, I think it would be in India's favor to allow the area across the himalayas on our side to rejoin the Tibet on the other side. So that it can once again become a buffer state between us and the Cheeni’s
AmitR wrote:
Vijay/Mahesh, I don't think I made myself very clear. Allowing DLama in AP can cause some serious problems for India in future as the indigenous people of AP are of Tibetan origin. We don't want another separatist movement in India do we?
And exactly on what basis did you arrive at the conclusion that Ar.P may see insurrection if HH Dalai Lama visits the state?
AmitR wrote:
Vijay/Mahesh, I don't think I made myself very clear. Allowing DLama in AP can cause some serious problems for India in future as the indigenous people of AP are of Tibetan origin. We don't want another separatist movement in India do we?
And exactly on what basis did you arrive at the conclusion that Ar.P may see insurrection if HH Dalai Lama visits the state?
I said in future, if and when the Tibetans start to assert themselves. DL is their spiritual head and if they cannot get Tibet back from China, Tibetans may start demanding autonomous status for them inside India. DL is a refugee and he should be treated as one, not like a nominal head of the people living inside India. Yaar Dosti is ok but lets keep the trouble at bay.
@AmitR, If I were a Tibetan, I would be very stupid to piss both China & India at the same time. While I dont deny the possibility, but I dont see it as being probable. This is without taking into account the goodwill India has amongst Tibetans, for hosting & allowing them to practice their religion. If anything the average Tibetan feels that India is afraid of China, & that should stand up more to China. My 2 cents.
but the recent visit for closed door meeting by the Obama aides to the Dalai Lama's office in Dharamshala - was it just a "routine" visit in preparation for the Dalai Lama's visit to the US- as put out in the media
Or
Is it a visit to "convince" the Dalai Lama not to visit Ar. Pradesh?
China doing and planning to do:
-Break India into small pieces
-Occupy Indian land
-Try to do so more in future
-Oppose us in IAEA, UN, ADB, and NSG and openly at every other platform
-Using Nepal, Pak, Bangladesh, Myanmar, SL etc against us
-Ordering us what to do and what not do
And Indian Neta log dum hila rahe hai...
IMHO... let DL go to AP and give him some award to burn China's butt. Carefully increase our strength along the boarder and internally.
arunsrinivasan wrote:@AmitR, If I were a Tibetan, I would be very stupid to piss both China & India at the same time. While I dont deny the possibility, but I dont see it as being probable. This is without taking into account the goodwill India has amongst Tibetans, for hosting & allowing them to practice their religion. If anything the average Tibetan feels that India is afraid of China, & that should stand up more to China. My 2 cents.
Mr Srinivasan, they have been pissing off China for a very long time and getting spanked by the Chinese. India is a different country. Every Tom, Dick and Harry here thinks that he owns the country. Have a look around to see how people from different states, languages and ethnicity are fighting with each other over every issue like river water, religion and outsider vs insider. As far as goodwill goes that is a good foundation to build relationships but not trustworthy in the long run. Remember, India help create Bangladesh in 71 and now it is barking and biting us like a mad dog. Learn from history and don't make mistakes.
