Indian Military Aviation
Re: Indian Military Aviation
There is 30% growth margins in the shakti engine. It will take time to get there and I think that option should be explored to allow a nicely armored heavily weaponised system to be created.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation
This weight problem with the LCH is in fact substantial as Ajai Shukla has pointed out. Attached below is a chart that predicts the performance problem for this particular helicopter.

Basically speaking, a NAG missile weighs around 50 Kg. 500 rounds of ammo weighs around 85 Kg. Four rounds of HELINA and 500 rounds of ammo amounts to around 285 Kg. A mean value of ROC (refer chart) for combat is around 5.0m/sec. Now see the chart to find the altitude that this corresponds to.
Now here's the fun part:
I had created the above chart for a baseline LCH whose weight was 2.5 tonnes. If the weight problem persists, subtract that extra weight from the above payload values and you see what the problem is.
-Vivek

Basically speaking, a NAG missile weighs around 50 Kg. 500 rounds of ammo weighs around 85 Kg. Four rounds of HELINA and 500 rounds of ammo amounts to around 285 Kg. A mean value of ROC (refer chart) for combat is around 5.0m/sec. Now see the chart to find the altitude that this corresponds to.
The above chart verifies the highlighted part in the above quote.Seshadri’s statement is quite clear. He indicates that the total payload at 20,000 feet will be some 350-500 kg. The cannon and its turret are not payload. They are a part of the helicopter fitment. Their ammunition, however, is payload. As are the missiles, rockets (the pods are not payload, they are fitment), etc
Now here's the fun part:
I had created the above chart for a baseline LCH whose weight was 2.5 tonnes. If the weight problem persists, subtract that extra weight from the above payload values and you see what the problem is.
-Vivek
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Re: Indian Military Aviation
MiG-29 16 As and 2 UMs 28, 47, 223 3 48 6
Mirage 2000H 16 Hs and 2 THs
6 THs and 4 Hs 1, 7
9 3 36 10
MiG-21 Bison 16 Bison and 2 U 3, 4,21, 23, 32, 35'B', 51 6.5 104 13
Sukhoi-30 MKI 16 MKI 2, 8, 20, 24, 30, 31 6 98
MiG-21Bis 16 + 2 Us 15, 26 2 48 8
Total for Air Superiority and Multi Role 334 37
Do all the aircraft that are manufactured serve as active units??? If so, what about the attrition reserve for emergencies???
Mirage 2000H 16 Hs and 2 THs
6 THs and 4 Hs 1, 7
9 3 36 10
MiG-21 Bison 16 Bison and 2 U 3, 4,21, 23, 32, 35'B', 51 6.5 104 13
Sukhoi-30 MKI 16 MKI 2, 8, 20, 24, 30, 31 6 98
MiG-21Bis 16 + 2 Us 15, 26 2 48 8
Total for Air Superiority and Multi Role 334 37
Do all the aircraft that are manufactured serve as active units??? If so, what about the attrition reserve for emergencies???
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Re: Indian Military Aviation
Cross posting from MRCA discussion thread...
I just remember that there were some negotiations going on about it.. Never knew what happened to it later on...
Is it true???Ajatshatru wrote:Not sure if TU-160 Blackjack was ever seriously offered to India.btw...why does IAF doesn't have Strategic bombers...like B1, B2 or Tu-160...
Four Tu-22M may have been leased to India in 2001 for maritime reconnaissance and strike purposes.
Anyway, now back to MRCA discussion.
I just remember that there were some negotiations going on about it.. Never knew what happened to it later on...
Re: Indian Military Aviation
The runway looks like it is road rolled into place. If war breaks out, this runway will be pounded heavily.
But with a crew of bulldozers and road rollers, and aircraft like the An-32 and choppers around, this airfield should be active throughout any war in south J&K.
But with a crew of bulldozers and road rollers, and aircraft like the An-32 and choppers around, this airfield should be active throughout any war in south J&K.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation
Russia will complete MiG-29 upgradation by 2013
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/New ... 034219.cms
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/New ... 034219.cms
"new multi-functional Zhuk-ME" is this the new AESA ....The upgrade MiG-29s will be fitted with advanced avionics, new multi-functional Zhuk-ME radars, a new weapon control system, as well as modernised RD-33 engines.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation
No, Zhuk ME is not AESA..SanjibGhosh wrote:"new multi-functional Zhuk-ME" is this the new AESA ....The upgrade MiG-29s will be fitted with advanced avionics, new multi-functional Zhuk-ME radars, a new weapon control system, as well as modernised RD-33 engines.
Re: Indian Military Aviation
I dont think its an AESA radar
Re: Indian Military Aviation
Sriman wrote:No, Zhuk ME is not AESA..
It is an AESA.krishnan wrote:I dont think its an AESA radar
Russia ready to help India build its own advanced radar
We are ready to develop a new advanced radar jointly with India,” said Vyacheslav Tishchenko, head of the Phazotron-NIIR Corporation. The company has built Russia’s first Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, Zhuk-ME, for the MiG-35 fighter, the Russian contender in the IAF tender for the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA). Two planes will go to India next month for flight evaluation trials.
Re: Indian Military Aviation
first set of AN32 images from Nyoma FOP - where eagles dare. there is a lone lady
IAF officer too.
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/09/ia ... adakh.html
wrt the haunting pic of the AN32 against the mountains, put in some strong caves
and change the AN32 to a line of tall big twin tailplanes rolling for takeoff
live free or die!
IAF officer too.
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/09/ia ... adakh.html
wrt the haunting pic of the AN32 against the mountains, put in some strong caves
and change the AN32 to a line of tall big twin tailplanes rolling for takeoff

live free or die!
Re: Indian Military Aviation
Do we know who that lady is ? She does not look like a pilot/co-pilot to me , Ground Crew ?
Re: Indian Military Aviation
Looks like the engines were not turned off.Singha wrote:first set of AN32 images from Nyoma FOP - where eagles dare. there is a lone lady
IAF officer too.
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/09/ia ... adakh.html
wrt the haunting pic of the AN32 against the mountains, put in some strong caves
and change the AN32 to a line of tall big twin tailplanes rolling for takeoff
live free or die!
Re: Indian Military Aviation
She is holding jacket like the big person standing next to him. So she must be the co-pilot.Austin wrote:Do we know who that lady is ? She does not look like a pilot/co-pilot to me , Ground Crew ?
Re: Indian Military Aviation
Emm .... I do not see the wings on her outfit , compare those to the other pilots with wings , could she be an Airman ( or Airwomen ? )RKumar wrote:She is holding jacket like the big person standing next to him. So she must be the co-pilot.Austin wrote:Do we know who that lady is ? She does not look like a pilot/co-pilot to me , Ground Crew ?
Why does she look so dead serious , no smiles why ?

Re: Indian Military Aviation
the wings will be on the jacket ?
Re: Indian Military Aviation
Auro ko dekho , they may or may not have their names but have their wings on their outfit , but the lady has name on her outfit not wingsRahul M wrote:the wings will be on the jacket ?
Re: Indian Military Aviation
none of them are wearing jackets. the only one who is has it on his jacket.
now where's jag when you need him.

now where's jag when you need him.
Re: Indian Military Aviation
BecauseAustin wrote:
Why does she look so dead serious , no smiles why ?
1)all us men are spending all our time looking at her when there are so many other things to look at.
2) The photographer was also looking at her and he may think she is trying to get friendly

Re: Indian Military Aviation
Dont look for the wings but look on the strips, which match to that of the guy wearing jacket is having.Austin wrote: Emm .... I do not see the wings on her outfit , compare those to the other pilots with wings , could she be an Airman ( or Airwomen ? )

Re: Indian Military Aviation
If all those guys have wings on their outfit , the lady cant be an exception , I think she is an Airmen or Engineer/technical dept.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation
Well She's an Air Officer... not an air women... My guess is she's probably AF public Relations Cell or IA-IAF liaison office... I could be wrong...Austin wrote:If all those guys have wings on their outfit , the lady cant be an exception , I think she is an Airmen or Engineer/technical dept.
Re: Indian Military Aviation
shiv wrote:Looks like the engines were not turned off.Singha wrote:first set of AN32 images from Nyoma FOP - where eagles dare. there is a lone lady
IAF officer too.
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/09/ia ... adakh.html
wrt the haunting pic of the AN32 against the mountains, put in some strong caves
and change the AN32 to a line of tall big twin tailplanes rolling for takeoff
live free or die!
Normal ops procedure.
Engines may not easily start up again at that altitude.
Re: Indian Military Aviation
WRT the Wings: The jacket/pullover should carry the wings and the name plate. But I dunno why she has name plate on the overalls while holding the jacket?
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Re: Indian Military Aviation
Probably there's another name patch in jacket/pullover...rohitvats wrote:WRT the Wings: The jacket/pullover should carry the wings and the name plate. But I dunno why she has name plate on the overalls while holding the jacket?
Re: Indian Military Aviation
rohitvats wrote:WRT the Wings: The jacket/pullover should carry the wings and the name plate. But I dunno why she has name plate on the overalls while holding the jacket?
No wings on flight suit means not flight crew for sure.
That leaves Medical, Logistics, ATC, or maybe Technical Officer.
Re: Indian Military Aviation
chetak wrote: Normal ops procedure.
Engines may not easily start up again at that altitude.
Yes - that is what I thought. The Daulat Beg Oldi story says that too.
Have you looked at DBO on Google Earth/Bhuvan? No airfield is visible to me. The terrain is all flat though and probably suitable to create a "rough field" of the sort that all ex-Soviet aircraft with their variable pressure tyres were designed to use.
You have IAF aircraft taking off with full loads at around MSL - landing at these fields to offload men and material - to fly out with a light load. Does that tell anyone anything?
Re: Indian Military Aviation
These airfields are all designated advanced landing grounds for a purpose. The Aircraft land quickly offload and are gone in like < 30mins, the engines running at low speeds the time they spend on the ground.
This is better than airdropping of cargo from transport planes (not helicopters), which IAF had to resort to during '62. This was expensive, with some supplies landing with the enemy and some which were unretrievable / damaged.
The ALG concept is fine until the shooting starts, then its all just touch and go.
Are IAF aircraft equipped to land on these grounds say at night time if they are required in the event of hostilities? I understand that landing on any of these places at the best of times is hazardous, but I wondered.
This is better than airdropping of cargo from transport planes (not helicopters), which IAF had to resort to during '62. This was expensive, with some supplies landing with the enemy and some which were unretrievable / damaged.
The ALG concept is fine until the shooting starts, then its all just touch and go.
Are IAF aircraft equipped to land on these grounds say at night time if they are required in the event of hostilities? I understand that landing on any of these places at the best of times is hazardous, but I wondered.
Re: Indian Military Aviation
yes they can certainly land at night if needed - weather permitting. portable flares
have been used for ages in AGL/jungle strips even petromax lamps in WW2 I think.
my guess is the lady was a medical officer given the top brass on board and their age.
have been used for ages in AGL/jungle strips even petromax lamps in WW2 I think.
my guess is the lady was a medical officer given the top brass on board and their age.
Re: Indian Military Aviation
Do we have any information about whether the IAF trains for 'Touch and Go' supply drops on ALG's ?Gagan wrote:These airfields are all designated advanced landing grounds for a purpose. The Aircraft land quickly offload and are gone in like < 30mins, the engines running at low speeds the time they spend on the ground.
This is better than airdropping of cargo from transport planes (not helicopters), which IAF had to resort to during '62. This was expensive, with some supplies landing with the enemy and some which were unretrievable / damaged.
The ALG concept is fine until the shooting starts, then its all just touch and go.[/color]
Are IAF aircraft equipped to land on these grounds say at night time if they are required in the event of hostilities? I understand that landing on any of these places at the best of times is hazardous, but I wondered.
Any IAF / Ex IAF air warriors (similar to Ray sir on the Army side) who can conform / deny / comment on this.
Re: Indian Military Aviation
Our Air force strength is one third of China: IAF chief
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news ... 046670.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news ... 046670.cms
Re: Indian Military Aviation
Even with full sanctioned strength (42 Squadrons) , we will reach no where near PLAAF who has around 2000 aricrafts in fighter, ground attack and bomber role...dinesha wrote:Our Air force strength is one third of China: IAF chief
It is high time we increase our sanctioned strength to 60 squadrons as minimum.. But again just increasing it will not matter. It will take decades for GOI and IAF to fill it physically...
Pathetic...
-Nitin
Re: Indian Military Aviation
you know air chief will never criticize govt. or he just loose his jobnrshah wrote:Even with full sanctioned strength (42 Squadrons) , we will reach no where near PLAAF who has around 2000 aricrafts in fighter, ground attack and bomber role...dinesha wrote:Our Air force strength is one third of China: IAF chief
It is high time we increase our sanctioned strength to 60 squadrons as minimum.. But again just increasing it will not matter. It will take decades for GOI and IAF to fill it physically...
Pathetic..-Nitin

Re: Indian Military Aviation
IAF sanctioned strength is 39.5 sqns (why half a sqdn, don't ask me, it's another of the mysteries of babudom)
IAF dream is 55 sqn/1000 aircraft.
PLAAF numbers around 1500 including bombers. I'm not counting the fantans which would be near useless in Sino-Indian contexts, not too mention that they are really long in the tooth.
also note that around 500 of these are old J-7s, not exactly state of the art either and difficult to use against India due to range/performance/payload considerations in tibet.
the older J-8s too will find it difficult to find anything useful to do in case of a war with India.
bottomline is yes PLAAF is large and all that but not as much some people think.
IAF dream is 55 sqn/1000 aircraft.
PLAAF numbers around 1500 including bombers. I'm not counting the fantans which would be near useless in Sino-Indian contexts, not too mention that they are really long in the tooth.
also note that around 500 of these are old J-7s, not exactly state of the art either and difficult to use against India due to range/performance/payload considerations in tibet.
the older J-8s too will find it difficult to find anything useful to do in case of a war with India.
bottomline is yes PLAAF is large and all that but not as much some people think.
Re: Indian Military Aviation
First the Navy chief and now the IAF chief. Add to that the media hype!! I'm loving this dog n' pony show!! Maybe the forces have figured out how to get new hardware quicker!!
Re: Indian Military Aviation
But this also means that PLAAF has the numbers, specifically the numbers in trained airmen and pilots.
They could easily do a wave type attack like in the 50s and 60s by cycling pilots and quickly turning around aircraft on the ground for a new attack.
Even if the number of capable fighters with PLAAF will roughly correspond to IAF 42 sq dream, PLAAF can still hold the advantage because of this.
They could easily do a wave type attack like in the 50s and 60s by cycling pilots and quickly turning around aircraft on the ground for a new attack.
Even if the number of capable fighters with PLAAF will roughly correspond to IAF 42 sq dream, PLAAF can still hold the advantage because of this.
Re: Indian Military Aviation
hi guys here are a few numbers of chinese air force from air fleet mag
120 H6(TU-16) free fall bombs
250 H5(IL-28) cruise missiles,tanker,EW
500 Q5 (modernized MIG-19)
25 J-6(MIG-19)
392 J-7(MIG-21)
248 SU-27(151-SK,MK 98 J-11)
140 J-10
98 J-8(comparable to SU-15)
TOTAL 1700 combat aircraft
22% 4,4+ generation(su-30mk,su-27,j-11,j-10)
5% 3 gen(j-8)
22% 2 gen(j-7)
51% 1 gen(h-5,h-6,j-6,q-5)
120 H6(TU-16) free fall bombs
250 H5(IL-28) cruise missiles,tanker,EW
500 Q5 (modernized MIG-19)
25 J-6(MIG-19)
392 J-7(MIG-21)
248 SU-27(151-SK,MK 98 J-11)
140 J-10
98 J-8(comparable to SU-15)
TOTAL 1700 combat aircraft
22% 4,4+ generation(su-30mk,su-27,j-11,j-10)
5% 3 gen(j-8)
22% 2 gen(j-7)
51% 1 gen(h-5,h-6,j-6,q-5)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation
On comparison with our fleet OrBat, we have qualitatively more superior aircraft as most of our fleet is 4th generation aircraft... At least the one's assigned for air defence are... Only the Bis version is a 3rd generation aircraft... So this should help tip the scales in our favour for at least the air defence... Or at least I hope so...chiru wrote:hi guys here are a few numbers of chinese air force from air fleet mag
120 H6(TU-16) free fall bombs
250 H5(IL-28) cruise missiles,tanker,EW
500 Q5 (modernized MIG-19)
25 J-6(MIG-19)
392 J-7(MIG-21)
248 SU-27(151-SK,MK 98 J-11)
140 J-10
98 J-8(comparable to SU-15)
TOTAL 1700 combat aircraft
22% 4,4+ generation(su-30mk,su-27,j-11,j-10)
5% 3 gen(j-8)
22% 2 gen(j-7)
51% 1 gen(h-5,h-6,j-6,q-5)