India-US News and Discussion

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 21 Sep 2009 14:40

Hari,
I would love to believe in what you think but even US dependent countries like UK dont follow most of things unkil says even though it is more dependent than India. For eg. Pan-Am bomber, Magrahi release. If we think we cannot debate and pass resolutions on US actions we should be shameful of our democracy, politicians are doing nothing in Delhi but eating, drinking and enjoying 5 star hotels. I think even the most banana rebulic nation in the world would debate these kind of actions from a country which calls itself an ally in thier house of representatives. A country which cannot do anything is a poodle and not an ally.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 21 Sep 2009 19:03

India-U.S. Defense Partnership Needs a Rethink

India, America: Looking Beyond the Nuclear Deal

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Sep 2009 15:32

US needs to change its lifestyle to save Planet Earth: India
At last, the truth which is well known.

Ahead of the Climate Change Summit here, India has underlined the need for the United States to embark on a "lifestyle change" to save the planet as New Delhi said it was on the path to unilateral voluntary mitigation measures by 2020 to combat climate change.

"In terms of lifestyle changes the time has come that we should not be shy about raising this issue," said Mr. Pachauri, the chairperson of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which received the Nobel Peace Prize in 2007.

"If it is affecting the rest of the planet then it should be up for negotiation," the scientist underlined.

"We are not part of the problem but we want to be part of the solution," he stressed.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 22 Sep 2009 16:28

India "challenges" US on climate change.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/e ... 839231.ece

India challenges US by agreeing to impose limits on carbon emissions'
Jeremy Page in Delhi, Giles Whittell in Washington and David Charter in Brussels

An electricity worker in India repairs faulty wires. The country says it will rely more on solar power for its energy

India wrong-footed the United States and other rich nations yesterday by agreeing for the first time to set numerical targets for curbing its greenhouse gas emissions.

The move added to pressure on the Obama Administration to deliver on its own climate change pledges even as senior Democrats warned that US legislation may face severe delays.

Jairam Ramesh, the Indian Environment Minister, told The Times that legislation was being drafted in Delhi to limit India’s carbon footprint and in the process repair his country’s reputation for intransigence on climate change before the crucial UN conference in Copenhagen in December.

The announcement marks a breakthough in international talks, which have stalled over whether emissions curbs in a new UN climate treaty should apply to developing nations as well as to the developed countries covered by the Kyoto Protocol.

Climate change summit may dodge big decisions
Poor nations will struggle to go Green

It came as Gordon Brown sought to goad the US into tougher action on climate change, and as environmental groups reacted with alarm to a Senate forecast that there would be no US carbon “cap-and-trade” Bill until 2010 — if at all. Harry Reid, the Senate’s Democratic Majority Leader, indicated on Wednesday that bitter congressional wrangling over healthcare reform could delay climate change legislation for months.

Sources close to the Administration have said that the White House considers climate change “a much harder poll” than healthcare. Alternatives being considered to Mr Obama’s preferred option of tradable carbon permits include scrapping the cap-and-trade Bill in favour of an energy Bill that would cover only power stations, and abandoning the climate change fight in Congress altogether. In that event, curbing emissions could be left to the US Environmental Protection Agency, an option that many business leaders favour. However, restricting new curbs to the energy sector “would be worse than no Bill at all”, Fred Krupp, president of the Environmental Defence Fund, said yesterday.

India has long refused to commit itself to any cuts on the ground that its per capita emissions are far lower than developed countries’ and any caps would hamper its economic development.

Mr Ramesh said that in Copenhagen, India would stick to its long-standing commitment to keep per capita emissions below those of developed nations – and would not agree to any internationally binding cuts.

He added, however, that India was drafting legislation that would set its own targets for mitigating carbon emissions through various domestic initiatives, such as a massive plan to promote solar energy. Carbon emissions in India are set to soar as its economy expands rapidly and industrialisation gathers pace. The new targets would be consistent with an annual growth rate of 8 to 9 per cent for India’s GDP, Mr Ramesh said.

The announcement was designed to improve India’s image in the West as an obstacle to climate change talks and to put the onus on the developed world to commit to deeper emissions cuts.

Mr Brown yesterday backed plans for a €100 billion-a-year commitment by 2020 to help developing countries to move to a low-carbon economy, with much of that coming from an international emissions trading scheme. The EU has said that it will provide between €2 billion and €15 billion and that it expects the US to find up to €13 billion a year.

EU leaders meeting in Brussels last night before the Pittsburgh summit of the world’s 20 leading economies, called on the G20 leaders to inject much needed urgency into the climate change talks.

In Delhi, Mr Ramesh said: “This notion that India is intransigent on mitigation is crap. We are mitigating and mitigating considerably to save our forests and our rivers. But for an international agreement, the developed world has to demonstrate its seriousness much more credibly than it has done so far.”

A coalition of Indian experts is urging the Government to reduce the country’s projected emissions by 25 per cent by 2030. The Delhi Science Forum, which meets today, also recommends making that commitment conditional on developed countries adopting emissions targets set by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

“Such a position could be a game-changer for Copenhagen and propel India into a leadership role on the climate issue,” said D. Raghunandan, secretary of the Delhi Science Forum.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 22 Sep 2009 21:29

It is funny how every time INdia is talked off as challenging someone, it is inevitably by doing something unexpedectly to limit itself (shootng itself in the foot really) or by self-restraint or peace. Here India agrees to a cap, and by doing so has supposedly challenged the US. Like hitting your face to spite the opponent.

Could India even get "per capita" as an agenda point in any discussion on climate change? Fat chance.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Sep 2009 21:40

SSridhar wrote:US needs to change its lifestyle to save Planet Earth: India
At last, the truth which is well known.

India should not comment on US or on its lifestyle.
Other should talk about it. India should avoid being the target

munna · Post by **munna** » 23 Sep 2009 06:14

US should surrender! Says SM Krishna A story by WSJ

India, one of the biggest investors in Afghanistan, believes there is no military solution to the conflict in that country and that NATO combat operations should give way to a political settlement with the Taliban, according to Indian Foreign Minister S.M. Krishna.

Solid kick to NATO H&D. So gurulog we want US out of Fak-Ap but what happens next?

He played down the findings of electoral fraud, noting the U.S. election fracas in Florida in 2000, saying, "It happens in every election, [that results are] questioned."

Seriously speaking he has questioned US electoral legitimacy when in US, this guy has lots of those rotund objects which we accuse our politicians of not having! This seems to be some new kind of era where we become party to Baloch dispute at S-E-S, protect our deterrent by wrong footing NPAs and then question US elections on their soil! Fun all the way, let us see where we end up..

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 23 Sep 2009 06:35

Krishna Interview Excerpts

Krishna Interview Excerpts

ON AFGHANISTAN

India doesn't believe that war could be a solution for solving any problem and it applies to Afghanistan also. I think there could be a political settlement. I think we should strive towards a political settlement.

India is an optimistic nation. We believe a solution can be found. If India can work happily with Great Britain after they having ruled us for so long, it only shows that we can play the game. We can be partners in development.

If there internal differences within Afghanistan I think the people of Afghanistan, the leaders of Afghanistan will sort it out by themselves.

India's role in Afghanistan is to help them to stabilize on their infrastructure development. That's our immediate concern. That is the reason why we were asked to come to Afghanistan. We are building roads, we are building school buildings and we are building transmission lines.

Afghanistan as a nation has to grow. They have come through a process of holding elections. I think giving democracy a try, they have succeeded. I think we should support them.

You in the United States in Florida were counting, we cannot forget that. It happens in every election, it is questioned.

I think that [the Taliban] and the [ISI] are a tandem and they are still together, yes.

ON MUMBAI

[Lashkar-e-Taiba leader Hafiz Muhammed Saeed] is being has been put under house arrest for certain inflammatory speeches he made in some part of Pakistan. What India is interested in, according to the six dossiers provided by India to the Pakistani government, [is] evidence we provided to show how Saeed was the chief conspirator in the attack on Mumbai. So we want Saeed to be tried for his Mumbai attack. They are trying to camouflage the whole idea to suit themselves. So India cannot be lulled into some kind of satisfaction that they are proceeding against them. We can see through the game.

We will appeal to our friends across the board to prevail on Pakistan to see the part of reason and bring to justice all those behind the attack on Mumbai.

I hope there won't be any attacks, but if there is an attack on India, India is fully prepared to meet any kind of attack.

ON CLIMATE CHANGE

India certainly would like to be part of the solution to this climate change. But we have a huge development agenda and there are millions of people in India who live below the poverty line and the Indian government's pre-occupation, the Congress Party's pre-occupation in India is to bring them to the level of those below the poverty line. So the development, which has impact on the way of life, that has to improve. If it has to improve then naturally our energy requirements have to be at enormously met. We need to create sources of energy. Even though we are trying to be part of the solution, it is meant that trying solar energy, lots of funds are being funneled into solar energy, so I think India is contributing in its own humble way to mitigate.

We have said that development comes first to us. It is total. Then we cannot be responsible for all the evil impact of this climate change. I think it is the developed countries that have been responsible for this. I think it is the legacy that they created, a liability they have made, I think they should come out in terms of providing the technology, the resources so that developing countries can become part of the solution.

All the complications are flowing out of the developed countries. So I don't think that the developing nations can be blamed for this. The major responsibility of finding a solution to this problem rests with the developed nations.

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 23 Sep 2009 06:43

munna wrote:US should surrender! Says SM Krishna A story by WSJ
India, one of the biggest investors in Afghanistan, believes there is no military solution to the conflict in that country and that NATO combat operations should give way to a political settlement with the Taliban, according to Indian Foreign Minister S.M. Krishna.
Solid kick to NATO H&D. So gurulog we want US out of Fak-Ap but what happens next?
He played down the findings of electoral fraud, noting the U.S. election fracas in Florida in 2000, saying, "It happens in every election, [that results are] questioned."
Seriously speaking he has questioned US electoral legitimacy when in US, this guy has lots of those rotund objects which we accuse our politicians of not having! This seems to be some new kind of era where we become party to Baloch dispute at S-E-S, protect our deterrent by wrong footing NPAs and then question US elections on their soil! Fun all the way, let us see where we end up..

Interesting development indeed ... I think it is too early to decide what is motive behind this and what will be the outcome. But one thing I can be certain of ... lotsa

to happen on this board in the next few days ... time to pop open a beer, sit back and enjoy the show ...

munna · Post by **munna** » 23 Sep 2009 06:51

g.kacha wrote:Interesting development indeed ... I think it is too early to decide what is motive behind this and what will be the outcome. But one thing I can be certain of ... lotsa to happen on this board in the next few days ... time to pop open a beer, sit back and enjoy the show ...

With nook thread going in circles and now coming round to the view that all is maya only it will be interesting to watch out what our SDRE government pulls out next vis a vis Ombaba-e-cheenii-surrenderi!

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 23 Sep 2009 07:02

What's pathetic is how Pak gets off the hook for everything.

Even when they practically bombed the Twin Towers themselves, they get a big fat gravy train ride for "finding the real killers" - this is like OJ getting rich off his book.

Well, if Kaangress can keep going on a joyride while not delivering security to the Indian people, I don't know how they can credibly lecture the US for joyriding in Afghanistan without delivering a victory there.

The Atlanticists are pretty wily interlocutors and are quite alert on spin management from moment to moment. Foggy Bottom is full of such people. That's part of how Pak gets it free ride, and gets off scot-free. And while their glass is always spun as half-full, meanwhile ours always gets spun as half-empty.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 23 Sep 2009 08:04

munna wrote:Seriously speaking he has questioned US electoral legitimacy when in US, this guy has lots of those rotund objects which we accuse our politicians of not having!

You may be seeing things where none exists

It is just the way you want to see things.

The budhau said everyone questions election results no matter what...it does not translate to calling elections being fraud in US or anywhere.

Your spin creates two impacts
a) it may unncessarily put SM Krishna in position of being mistaken where he didn't intend
b) it may, like you say, project non-existant objects where all one can see (in actions) is well...

munna · Post by **munna** » 23 Sep 2009 08:09

Satya_anveshi wrote:Your spin creates two impacts
a) it may unncessarily put SM Krishna in position of being mistaken where he didn't intend
b) it may, like you say, project non-existant objects where all one can see (in actions) is well...

Its good either way! Matters of statecraft are neither shorn of double meanings nor are they conducted in street talk way of straight speak. Something is there. .

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 23 Sep 2009 08:20

There's no state craft when politicians like SMK speak. Mostly they're just giving a talk down to reporters. Why go on Obamas turf and talk about GWBs legitimacy? Specially when what GWB did for us is being kicked by what Hussain is doing or not doing. I don't see any savvy in recommending talking to Taliban. Let the US continue slaughtering the fanatic. India loses nothing here. This is just 'talking down to reporters bluster'. These people don't understand what impression they are conveying by off the cuff remarks like these. For certain the understanding of strategic affairs of Indian politicians is way way less than the average BRFite. We defeinitely deserve better leadership than whats on offer here.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 23 Sep 2009 08:24

munna wrote:Seriously speaking he has questioned US electoral legitimacy when in US, this guy has lots of those rotund objects which we accuse our politicians of not having!

Oh, there are rotund objects all right, to me they seem like they all lie in the vicinity of the interior of the skull.
Now is the time to co-opt ombaba, not to antagonize.

munna · Post by **munna** » 23 Sep 2009 08:32

harbans wrote:There's no state craft when politicians like SMK speak. Mostly they're just giving a talk down to reporters. Why go on Obamas turf and talk about GWBs legitimacy? Specially when what GWB did for us is being kicked by what Hussain is doing or not doing. I don't see any savvy in recommending talking to Taliban. Let the US continue slaughtering the fanatic. India loses nothing here. This is just 'talking down to reporters bluster'. These people don't understand what impression they are conveying by off the cuff remarks like these. For certain the understanding of strategic affairs of Indian politicians is way way less than the average BRFite. We defeinitely deserve better leadership than whats on offer here.

How many foreign ministers of India have openly given an opinion on a US domestic political event in the past and that too on US soil? Even if our clueless param pujya phoren minister is trying to appease the big owl by dissing US election process he will not be taken kindly to in the US policy making circles.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 23 Sep 2009 08:50

Perhaps krishna-ji wants to shift over to the agriculture ministry, and MMS wasn't acquiescing. Hence this soosai attempt.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 23 Sep 2009 08:51

munna wrote:How many foreign ministers of India have openly given an opinion on a US domestic political event in the past and that too on US soil? Even if our clueless param pujya phoren minister is trying to appease the big owl by dissing US election process he will not be taken kindly to in the US policy making circles.

Well, it seems he's currying favor with the people the election was stolen from. And getting out of Afghanistan would suit the current Administration just fine.

munna · Post by **munna** » 23 Sep 2009 08:56

Gagan wrote:
Perhaps krishna-ji wants to shift over to the agriculture ministry, and MMS wasn't acquiescing. Hence this soosai attempt.

More like it at least it will highlight the need to remove the green horns from MEA and send in some of India's hardest boiled netajis.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Sep 2009 10:28

munna wrote:
harbans wrote:There's no state craft when politicians like SMK speak. Mostly they're just giving a talk down to reporters. Why go on Obamas turf and talk about GWBs legitimacy? Specially when what GWB did for us is being kicked by what Hussain is doing or not doing. I don't see any savvy in recommending talking to Taliban. Let the US continue slaughtering the fanatic. India loses nothing here. This is just 'talking down to reporters bluster'. These people don't understand what impression they are conveying by off the cuff remarks like these. For certain the understanding of strategic affairs of Indian politicians is way way less than the average BRFite. We defeinitely deserve better leadership than whats on offer here.
How many foreign ministers of India have openly given an opinion on a US domestic political event in the past and that too on US soil? Even if our clueless param pujya phoren minister is trying to appease the big owl by dissing US election process he will not be taken kindly to in the US policy making circles.

Munnaji, I said this on Sept 10th, 2009....

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 65#p736265

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 23 Sep 2009 10:38

Krishn'a style is that of an ancient Roman senator.The cut and thrust of modern diplomacy has little time for his grand soliquoy.His words are ususally addressed to his audience,himself.In this interview,he has made the astonishing faux-pas of legitimising the barbaric Taliban,who respect dogs and pigs over women and resort to inhuman interpretations of the Koran to justify their devilry.Yes,the US and NATO should not be in the region at all,but what should replace them is an independent govt. in Afghanistan that relies upon its traditional methods of achieving tribal peace and a firm exit also of the Pakistanis and the ISI from that country.

This is what SMK should've emphasised,that the trouble in Afghanistan is fundamentally due to Pakistan's ambitions,to conquer that country,rule it by evil proxy and use it as a launching pad for its mischief against India and the surrounding Central Asian states.SMK should've called for a total ban on supply of advanced weaponry to pak by the US in the light of its misuse of US weaponry,especially Harpoon missiles,the revelations of the Paki establishment's nuclear proliferation and the continuing Sino-Pak-NoKo axis for the same.He should've also asked the US to investigate who and why the US which all along knew about Pak's perfidy,did bu**er all about it,adding to India's detriment.

amit · Post by **amit** » 23 Sep 2009 11:10

It's interesting that everyone bemoans the fact that our netas don't have the cajones to stand up to the US.

And yet when some minister comes forward and makes a statement which is bound to not be taken kindly by the US and that too on US soil, then immediately the tsk, tsk, tsk, Oh what naive netas refrain comes on!

Head you lose, tails also you lose!

But more than the Fak-Ap or Florida statement I would urge folks to have a look at the stand taken on climate change. It's pretty interesting and I think gives a clue to what this government is thinking vis a vis the US.

It's not all bend over and enjoy the gubo as many would like to think. IMVHO, of course.

arun · Post by **arun** » 23 Sep 2009 16:43

:

India’s growing clout in Kabul may impact stability: US Gen

Chidanand Rajghatta , TNN 23 September 2009, 01:33am IST .............................

The mixed signals emanating from Washington is best illustrated by one paragraph, the only one relating to India, in the report by US General Stanley McChrystal about the dire situation in the Af-Pak theatre. It reads: “Indian political and economic influence is increasing in Afghanistan, including significant development efforts and financial investment. In addition, the current Afghan government is perceived by Islamabad to be pro-Indian. While Indian activities largely benefit the Afghan people, increasing Indian influence in Afghanistan is likely to exacerbate regional tensions and encourage Pakistani countermeasures in Afghanistan or India.’’

Dubbed the “McChrystal Unclear’’ report, the observation has left Indian officials scratching their heads. So what exactly does the remark imply? That India should scale down its influence in Afghanistan, even though its activities “largely benefit the Afghan people”? That the Obama administration needs to ask New Delhi to dilute its presence in Afghanistan in order not to “exacerbate regional tensions and encourage Pakistani countermeasures in Afghanistan or India’’ a thinly-disguised euphemism for Pakistani terrorism? ………………

Times of India

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 23 Sep 2009 17:13

munna wrote:US should surrender! Says SM Krishna A story by WSJ
India, one of the biggest investors in Afghanistan, believes there is no military solution to the conflict in that country and that NATO combat operations should give way to a political settlement with the Taliban, according to Indian Foreign Minister S.M. Krishna.
Solid kick to NATO H&D. So gurulog we want US out of Fak-Ap but what happens next?

That was an unfortunate articulation by SM Krishna in my opinion. He is siding with the US view that somehow they could find 'good' Taliban and settle the political issues with them. In my opinion, this is one more instance where Indian foreign policy increasingly follows the American policy without being worried about consequences. Yes, finally there has to be a political solution and yes, Pashtun (not Taliban) will have to play a major role in Afghanistan, but to suggest at this stage of an accommodation with the Taliban is preposterous.

munna wrote:
He played down the findings of electoral fraud, noting the U.S. election fracas in Florida in 2000, saying, "It happens in every election, [that results are] questioned."
Seriously speaking he has questioned US electoral legitimacy when in US, this guy has lots of those rotund objects which we accuse our politicians of not having! This seems to be some new kind of era where we become party to Baloch dispute at S-E-S, protect our deterrent by wrong footing NPAs and then question US elections on their soil! Fun all the way, let us see where we end up..

I am not sure whether the gentle SM Krishna has suddenly decided to be combative, aggressive or even forceful etc. We cannot attribute these qualities unless he consistently exhibits such behaviour. This could very well be unintentional rather than pre-meditated. By the way, I do not consider the self insertion into Baloch affairs at SeS as macho or clever. I consider that as a blunder but there is a separate thread for discussing that anyway, not here.

However, I still welcome anything that hammers the American hubris, intentional or unintentional, because they need to be brought down to terra firma every now and then.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 23 Sep 2009 17:39

SSridhar wrote: That was an unfortunate articulation by SM Krishna in my opinion. He is siding with the US view that somehow they could find 'good' Taliban and settle the political issues with them. In my opinion, this is one more instance where Indian foreign policy increasingly follows the American policy without being worried about consequences. Yes, finally there has to be a political solution and yes, Pashtun (not Taliban) will have to play a major role in Afghanistan, but to suggest at this stage of an accommodation with the Taliban is preposterous..

Its particularly interesting that just after Chidambaram returned from US, in his interview he made it clear that he has told the Americans that there is just one Taliban-AlQ setup, the difference in names such as LeT, JuD etc are just like names of divisions of a single organization.

SM Krishna seems to have a very different view of things.

In general I find that the present govt seems to be suffering from a rather serious split personality type issues. On one hand we have Sashi Tharoor--SM Krishna -- MMS and on the other AK Antony--Pranab Da--PC.

There are almost divergent on many basic issues, and it seems that the PC-Pranab Da "group" has taken upon themselves to also do external affairs (PC to US), PMO like functions (Pranab da asking the Ministers to get out of the Suites) and other many actions which seem to suggest that we have a real govt working in the background and a chai-biskoot party of MMS and co.

Its crazy.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 23 Sep 2009 17:44

Regarding SMK's so called assertiveness, give me a break. Like US is trembling on its feet to SMK's combativeness. If you recall, severl years back, even the so called "Hindu nationalist", "Jinnah was a great patriot", "my friend Strobe" guboing Jassu bhai in a finacial times interview took pot shots at US election fraud in Florida. These are cheap, supercillous taunts and don't advance Indian interests one iota. Remember, the way US politics works. Ask Blacks. There are certain Laksham Rekhas that are drawn, established by white liberals that are acceptable to the overwhelmingly rabid right polity, and within that boundary any silly brouha will be tolerated. This is the extent of 'free speech'. But any independent, harsh, biting criticism of US, in a manner in which they dole it out through 'human rights' demarches, annual 'religious freedom' reports BS etc; wll be met with the shoot first and talk later response. Thius, if the honorable SMK has real b@lls, not the phony ones, let him write in the WSJ that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld etc should be tried for war crimes and other crimes against humanity for their actions in Iraq, and lets see if WSJ would even publish that. This crap about Afganisthan is being talked about in US circles too, so SMK looses nothoing, least of all, any cojones he might have, in regurgitating what is essentially US domestic discourse. How does it serve Indian interests? How does it deal with India's Paki problem? How does India deal with Najam Sethi's the so called 'liberal' Paki's threat that India can do didly squat if they launch another Mumbai? Real men will stand up and respond to these threats.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 23 Sep 2009 17:51

Sanku wrote:Its particularly interesting that just after Chidambaram returned from US, in his interview he made it clear that he has told the Americans that there is just one Taliban-AlQ setup, the difference in names such as LeT, JuD etc are just like names of divisions of a single organization.

Sanku, yes, that is how it appears. Even on the Hafeez Saeed issue, such divergence was apparent between him and SMK initially until there was correction later on.

Read the Ayesha Siddiqa article that Malayappan posted in the 'Global Terrorism' thread to understand where exactly Taliban stand and how the Punjabi Taliban are embedded within them and how the State not only ignores that but also actively supports that. Not that we weren't aware but coming from Ayesha, it is credible.

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 23 Sep 2009 18:02

amit wrote:It's interesting that everyone bemoans the fact that our netas don't have the cajones to stand up to the US.

And yet when some minister comes forward and makes a statement which is bound to not be taken kindly by the US and that too on US soil, then immediately the tsk, tsk, tsk, Oh what naive netas refrain comes on!

Head you lose, tails also you lose!

But more than the Fak-Ap or Florida statement I would urge folks to have a look at the stand taken on climate change. It's pretty interesting and I think gives a clue to what this government is thinking vis a vis the US.

It's not all bend over and enjoy the gubo as many would like to think. IMVHO, of course.

As we say in my native place ... "Chit bhi meri, pat bhi meri kyunki anta mere tau ka" (Heads I win, Tails you lose cuz the coin belongs to my uncle) ...

Its kinda funny to see our esteemed members suddenly rediscover the virtues of diplomatic talks and diplomacy ...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Sep 2009 18:32

I heard SMK talk on LET arrest issue yesterday . such a firm leadership and can-do posture. even the kids in my sons LKG class would be total rotfl after hearing him.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 23 Sep 2009 19:34

arun wrote:
Dubbed the “McChrystal Unclear’’ report, the observation has left Indian officials scratching their heads. So what exactly does the remark imply? That India should scale down its influence in Afghanistan, even though its activities “largely benefit the Afghan people”? That the Obama administration needs to ask New Delhi to dilute its presence in Afghanistan in order not to “exacerbate regional tensions and encourage Pakistani countermeasures in Afghanistan or India’’ a thinly-disguised euphemism for Pakistani terrorism?

What is there to scratch ones head. US has said & implied that many times. The message is clear, unless you want to bury your head in the sand.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 23 Sep 2009 19:41

blah blah blah. big O talking. same old preachy non-sense.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 23 Sep 2009 19:54

Hussain spent some time in Pakistan. I think he's convinced by the Paki version of events and India as a big bad bully boy in the neighbourhood. Thats why the focus on Kashmir, buying the Indian 'nuisance' in Afghanistan (imagine complaining/ whining that India is benefitting the Afghan people as bad for the region

), calling Mushy for strategic discussions on Afpak, giving India the cold shoulder in Asia. Hussain buys the Paki version inside out. GOI must be very very careful in the next 3.5 years. Hussain is upto no good as far as India is concerned..

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 23 Sep 2009 20:48

harbans wrote: buying the Indian 'nuisance' in Afghanistan (imagine complaining/ whining that India is benefitting the Afghan people as bad for the region ),

This Afghanistan is considered a Muslim country and part of Middle east now by the US policymakers.
So it is like India interfering inside Aghanistan and ME>

They want to ignore the entire historical links and histocial political capitol of India in the region.
It is a massive geo-political engineering attempted to erase history

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 Sep 2009 22:17

Acharyaji

one can understand western world wanting to do that for their self-interests. But our own 100% pure Indians do that always. I wish these guys voluntarily go to those jihadi camps for target practice so they understand what their forefathers and mothers went thru and what their roots are.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 23 Sep 2009 22:53

arun wrote:
India’s growing clout in Kabul may impact stability: US Gen

Chidanand Rajghatta , TNN 23 September 2009, 01:33am IST .............................
While Indian activities largely benefit the Afghan people, increasing Indian influence in Afghanistan is likely to exacerbate regional tensions and encourage Pakistani countermeasures in Afghanistan or India.

The countermeasures "In India" is the salient point here. So repeated recycling of Paki talking points makes Massa think that terrorism to achieve political objectives is legitimate. (Massa started it in A'stan anyway). Let us not discuss that now. Look at the other salient aspect: Pakis have been very successful in spin-speak and this should be countered by pointing out obvious flaws in logic. A few of their statements include

1. Failure to supply conventional weapons (by the US) will cause a over-reliance on nuke weapons by Pakistan {Fine. Then quit complaining about Indian buildup to counter the Paki over-reliance on nukes}

2. Resolving the Cashmere issue will settle all outstanding problems with India and facilitate deployment of Paki army to the west {Fallacious argument. The list of India-pak problems is miles long.}

3. Failure to support a civilian government, though thoroughly incompetent, will cause an army take over {Supporting a incompetent civilian government simply lays groundwork for more extremism in the society and more disenchantment of the public, facilitating an army takeover}

4. Curbing the power (political and economic) of the army, and making it subservient to civilians will provoke it into taking over the government. {Portraying the perpetrator as the victim. Same argument as "Rapes are caused by good looking women"}

5. Pakistan has genuine security interests vis-a-vis A'stan {So does India}

6. Pakistani support to Afghan taliban will cease if India is removed from the equation in Afghanistan {I wont rape my neighbor if she stops seeing her boyfriend}

7. What India and Pakistan are doing in Afghanistan to gain influence is essentially the same {Development projects vs training suicide bombers are certainly the same in cuckooland}

8. Solving the cashmere issue is the first step to peace in the region. {Fine, Pakistan drops all claims to cashmere. Issue solved.}

9. Pakistan cannot drop all claims to cashmere because of the sweat and blood it has shed over the years {Of terrorists. India has shed equal sweat and blood of her citizens and armed forces.}

10. Pakistan cannot drop all claims to cashmere because it is close to the heart of all Pakistanis {Akhand bharat is close to the heart of all Indians.}

11. Fighting through proxies is a legitimate way of solving Inter-state disputes. {Then why this takleef about 10,000 consulates in A'stan and "intereference in Blochistan" ?}

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 23 Sep 2009 22:56

^^ Very crisp and nice response Anujan. I am surely going to use these one-liners in my next debate with WKK / BLH type crowd.

Ameet · Post by **Ameet** » 23 Sep 2009 23:10

More of World's talented workers opt to leave USA - comments section is always a joy to read

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... rain_N.htm

"What was a trickle has become a flood," says Duke University's Vivek Wadhwa, who studies reverse immigration.

Wadhwa projects that in the next five years, 100,000 immigrants will go back to India and 100,000 to China, countries that have had rapid economic growth.

"For the first time in American history, we are experiencing the brain drain that other countries experienced," he says.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Sep 2009 23:13

Correction. Those countries experienced brain drain form native populations. Here US is experiencing reverse migration of borrowed brains. Their native population is not experienicing brain drain. Its a correction of the imbalance.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 24 Sep 2009 01:44

Multinational companies that belong to the American Council on International Personnel tell Executive Director Lynn Shotwell that skilled immigrants are discouraged by the immigration process, she says. Some can wait up to a decade for permanent residency, she says. "They're frustrated with having an uncertain immigration status," she says. "They're giving up."

But, nowadays even naturalized US citizens are going back to India. This was never heard of 20 yrs ago. So it is not just about legal residency issues.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 24 Sep 2009 16:04

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/s ... 846639.ece

Harry June wrote:
@Andrew: Please, most the negativity is not coming from "a few thousand miles across the Atlantic." In fact, it is a joint US-India team that made this discovery. Our Indian friends gathered the data but the data was interpreted by US scientists and thus the joint announcement with NASA.

Your hatred of the USA shouldn't be a theme on a discussion of joint exercises by the USA and India, two great allies who will together hold up the flag for democracy in the 21st century. For the record, as a tired Europe and UK recede into history, this American is proud to have 21st century allies as strong and capable as India, who like us also had to fight to remove the yoke of British oppression to found a more perfect union.