You need to read my post from an unbiased and right perspective, without using your made in US specs which you love so much.RameshC wrote:c'mon stop being so naive..26/11 happened not because of renewed LET will to disrupt life in India, they have always been doing that, there is nothing new about it, besides 26/11 happned and which is why now our seas are much more secure, just like after 9/11 the US is much safer, i remember i could carry a massive kitchen knife on an US aircraft while travelling those days are gone. things happen, they hit the parliament what heck is the oberoi, they had the balls to come in our own capital and hit our symbol of democracy, you think those people care, 26/11 has highlighted gaps in training, equipment and martime security, terrible things happen but everything is a learning exp. today 3 jawans and major died in encounter in J&K trying to kill 4 militants..3 jawans and 1 major for 4 militants, sorry but poor training, these daily casualities shows more gaps in training, equipment and tactics. besides the constant activity at border is why our troops are very potent because they always keep busy, an army cant afford to laze around, besides we have no problem killing them...so yes they make good target practice, matter of fact i think they should just dump young probationary jawans into the field and gain some exp killing those ********.
full-tot has nothing to do with source codes, US can give full-tot but source codes...no way...they could allow us to add to the source code which is possible. well even with source codes it will take us well over 7 years just to understand the flow of the code not to mention learn to add to it or customize it further, this even for a mig or rafale will take just as much time. its not easy working with source codes or understanding them. who cares if we dont have bomb that makes a bigger explosion, regardless of what anyone tells you, India is never going to bomb an enemy city, its not in our nature to hit cities, our enemy will try to hit our cities but our BMD will prevail, our smaller, easily deployable nukes will be used on key targets like air bases, naval bases and army divisions, one dosesnt need 200kt bonbs to level Pak. regardless of what you believe you never bomb civilians or cities with nukes, karma has way to come back around. we already have 200kt nukes so i dont think we need any more powerful weapons. for the past decade, we have slowly begun working with the US, you dont expect this to be one night stand right, both US and India are looking for a long term relationship, so yeah long term relations need work, a basis has to be set, and what nuclear castration, please stop being so foolish, as if we didnt have enough weapons to level both china and Pak what more do you want, these are nukes and not some toys.
people find ways to talk shit all the time, nuclear castration, trust me if we set on off now in Pak, millions will still die, nuclear castraion, what a load of bs. shame on you for wanting a bigger weapon. what we need is good platforms and need to stop worrying about some strategic stuff that hardly matter, instead of acting like begger, we should simply take control, tell the US to put up or shut up and if we do it properly they will oblige. you underestimate the power of the worlds' largest democracy. indo -us relations are beyong one admin. ofama or whoever the fak he is dont matter, because in the end its companies like LM, boeing that decide his fate, without defence lobby, president is nothing. defence products are their biggest exports, companies are powerful and can influence. moreover Gripen , Rafale, EF, SH and F-16 all have US made parts, mig is late, in one way or the other you will have to deal with them. they can as of now cancel the delivery of remining 2 awacs if they want. even with mig doesnt matter, India cant go to war with Pak or china without US permission or atleast letting them know. so please stop the whining, more people flood from india to US than to any place else, we are both democracies and have much to learn from eachother.
Regarding your 26/11 hallucination you say that since they can attack the parliament they can strike anywhere at their will and that is quite normal. Seriously, the logic is totally bull shXX. What I was trying to say in my previous post was that even if you cover one area and totally secure it , even then the problem will not be solved as the so called rats will try to sneak from some other place and the same happened in 26/11. Yes comparatively now we are taking some steps to secure our coastline but saying that this will make us as secure as US is height of optimism. Intruders will always try some other new and unique way of harming India next time You cannot term this as a learning experience, there is fine line which divides negligence and learning experience. Be clear about that. You yourself says that the casualties suffered by Indian troops can be a case of poor training but still rubbishes the intruders as rats and sitting ducks. Contradictory I would say.
OK, for time being even if I assume that full source code has nothing to do with full ToT what I was trying to emphasize there is that full ToT is not unkils strong point. You may counter this by saying that unkil is ready for ToT as per the RFP but still if others contenders can provide better value for our bucks then why not, we should obviously choose their bird. FYI, every other contender has agreed to for transfer of source code other that your beloved unkil.
http://expressbuzz.com/edition/story.as ... 0%20combat
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/unc ... 15243.html
Can you kindly let me know the source of this inside and confidential info of taking more than 7 year just to understand source codes? Are you of this opinion that the IAF is not looking for source codes just because its too complex?
"regardless of what anyone tells you, India is never going to bomb an enemy city, its not in our nature to hit cities"
You obviously have not heard of MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction). We dont need 200 KT n bomb to level Beijing or Shangai but we do need it to tell the chinks and any other adversary that we guarantee their destruction if they think of ours. It is the fear of 200 kt n Bomb which will prevent 200 kt n bomb landing on our heads. You need to learn more about MAD and second strike capabilities which again are of top most priority to India. There is a reason why US and SU never went to war even at the height of cold war.
"karma has way to come back around."
Ohh puhleese, do not preach me the theory of Karma as it is your unkil, the only n power which actually nuked the "civilian population". Tell him how it can hit him back as per his Bad Karma. Look who is talking here, funny !
"we already have 200kt nukes" .
I would be happy if we do have but just remember that the confusion about the TN device is still going on.
Again I am reiterating myself here that let the country scientific community and security situation decide the need of testing. We should not take unkils permission to asses and address our security concerns.
"i dont think we need any more powerful weapons."
Would you mind keeping your suggestion to yourself. I can see the same fact was once upon a time in 1960s said by Pt. Jawahar Lal Nehru and we all know what happened next.
"we have slowly begun working with the US, you dont expect this to be one night stand right."
Right, but have you for a second thought that from where else can US Army get an handsome combat like experience with a powerful army which uses primarily non NATO combat equipments.This relationship is atleast mutually beneficial. The same is true for rest of the defence forces of both countries.
"what nuclear castration, please stop being so foolish, as if we didnt have enough weapons to level both china and Pak what more do you want, these are nukes and not some toys."
It seems like after reading my post you straightway went to nuclear vault and personally supervised all the nukes we had and then came to this conclusion. Good Morning !, please wake up now.
"shame on you for wanting a bigger weapon."
A big shame on you for all the above points. Seriously, people comment on subject without actually understanding them. Learn about MAD and then try to understand what I have said.
"what we need is good platforms and need to stop worrying about some strategic stuff that hardly matter."
We need good platforms but stop worrying strategic stuff? Are you serious here? Do you know these strategic stuff most of the time prevents two countries going for an all out war. Learn about the importance of Strategic Stuff.
"instead of acting like begger, we should simply take control, tell the US to put up or shut up and if we do it properly they will oblige."
Music to the ears.
"you underestimate the power of the worlds' largest democracy. indo -us relations are beyong one admin. ofama or whoever the fak he is dont matter, because in the end its companies like LM, boeing that decide his fate, without defence lobby, president is nothing."
OMG, India was and is the largest democracy for the past more than 6 decade. Can you cite a single example how successfully we have used this argument in our benefit wrt unkil. Indi-US realtions are beyond one admin. obviously but it fluctuates heavily when the administration changes. Do I need to tell you how the approach of Bush admin. was differernt from "Hussian" admn? Ahh today morning I got the news of unkil releasing another package of 7.5 billion $ for TSP which obviously it will use against Taliban, gr8.
"moreover Gripen , Rafale, EF, SH and F-16 all have US made parts, mig is late, in one way or the other you will have to deal with them"
I am no supporter of MiG but even if I have to deal with unkil and if their policies remains detrimental to India then I would choose a product which has minimum exposure to US techs. BTW can you tell me what critical component Rafale is using which is of US origin? Try to understand one thing that we need a weapon to defend ourselves in which we have full faith and more important full control.
"they can as of now cancel the delivery of remining 2 awacs if they want"
AWACS was the game changer in South Asia. We could not get this without issy help. But also remember that it was signed when Bush was at the helm.You are right they can cancel if they want, but obviously they will not do anything stupid unless and untill we do something completely different to their expectations. Who would want to loose a multi billion market ? Try supporting IPI gas line and you would see different music coming from white house.
"India cant go to war with Pak or china without US permission or atleast letting them know"
There is a BIG BIG difference between letting them know and taking permission from them. Be clear about that. For that matter we may inform Russia also but taking permission is different case altogether. I am not sure but are you saying that if tomorrow TSP or Chink attack us , we would take permission from unkil to defend ourselves. Did TSP took permission from unkil when they did Kargil? Or are you saying we are even more pathetic and dependent then TSP?. Its a dangerous and irresponsible statement you are making without any proof. The country is doomed if it needs permission to defend itself . We may ask for help but taking permission.. (slave mentality working)
"stop the whining, more people flood from india to US than to any place else, we are both democracies and have much to learn from each other."
Yeah I know that, if given a chance more and more people would migrate to US but thats a human tendency to go for a luxurious and comfortable life. If today US can provide that environment, more and more people would like to go there. But keep that argument aside when talkin about defence. We have to defend our nation irrespective of US. We need to think in a manner which is best for our interest not US.
