Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Sep 2009 13:33

ISRO generously offered free rides to other organisations' instruments. little did it know that this will pay back such handsomely in terms of PR !
for the M3 is after all a NASA payload and was scheduled to go up in a later NASA mission.

when ISRO's offer came in NASA created another M3 and hitched it on the free ticket of CY-1.

bottomline : good karma pays !

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 26 Sep 2009 21:04

ss_roy wrote:I prefer astronaut.. why try to inject sanskrit in it.

Ant riksh = devoid of end = universe
astro = astra = tara = star
cosmos = ordered universe

If you want to restore 'classical' india, start with changing names of indian cities named after muslim tyrants.

Antariska -अंतरिक्ष - antar + iksh (अंतर + इक्ष ) distance seen by eyes.. in other words, region between the horizons is antariksh.

the other word aakaash - aa + kaash
aa - no/ away from/devoid of
kaash - luminiscence

Aakaash is that region which lacks luminiscence completely..Much better word to describe Space than antariksh..

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 26 Sep 2009 21:33

RayC wrote: I am of the opinion that one must be factually correct and take credit with both hands where it is due! But I take no pride in someone else’s reflected glory!

Reflected glory it is...literally, M3's spectral analysis is out of the reflected light from the moon! Anyways, when ISRO becomes as popular (and wealthy) as NASA these credit sharing will just be a matter of formality. Good science needs no deliberate exposition. It will speak on its own!

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 26 Sep 2009 22:18

The interview or press release from Madhavan Nair has a statement that the MIP instrument saw the presence of water, increasing from the the equator to the poles of the moon. So all the speculation that the MIP signal was probably simple water contamination from earth, and due to poor calibration procedures on part of ISRO cannot be true.

Since, passing references were made to older data from non-Chandrayaan probes by the NASA press conference and release, why was the MIP data also not highlighted ?

Lack of collaboration meetings in discussing the results of individual payloads, again due to ITAR related embargo could be the sole reason. So NASA can claim honestly we did not see the results of MIP just as ISRO did not get to see the results from M3. But, when it comes to publications we know for sure that NASA scientists will not be found slacking in getting to the press first.

Lesson for ISRO for all future collaborations in scientific endeavors. ISRO is so used to technical collaborations, that they probably assumed that it will always be a joint statement followed by a paper. NASA still did include representatives from ISRO and PRL in their science paper. So they can be forgiven for now.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 26 Sep 2009 23:00

Rahul M wrote:ISRO generously offered free rides to other organisations' instruments. little did it know that this will pay back such handsomely in terms of PR !

There was criticism of ISRO on the forum over this. Some felt that such collaboration was more appropriate to a second mission, that the first Indian probe should be an India-only affair for the sake of national pride. ISRO was said to lack understanding of PR as displayed by the Chinese.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 26 Sep 2009 23:12

^^^ Not to mention cheap barbs targeted at APJ-thaatha for suggesting MIP

A highly deplorable and opportunistic attack, trying to piggyback on the unrelated Pokhran issue.

This was one of those instances were Sun Tzu is left scratching his head.

Sandipan · Post by **Sandipan** » 27 Sep 2009 00:03

Question for BRFITES, soviets have named their space going citizens as Cosmonaut, Americans - Astronaut and Chinese - Taikonaut. What should Indians name our Antarix Yatris??

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 27 Sep 2009 01:05

Sandipan wrote:Question for BRFITES, soviets have named their space going citizens as Cosmonaut, Americans - Astronaut and Chinese - Taikonaut. What should Indians name our Antarix Yatris??

Donut or rather Donaut, may be

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 27 Sep 2009 01:38

I am about to have an "AHA" moment.

Antrix corp. has a meaning after all.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Sep 2009 03:24

Gagan wrote:I am about to have an "AHA" moment.

Antrix corp. has a meaning after all.

Hah, of course - you didn't know that?

Meanwhile, Kalam has more ideas for Chandrayaan-2:

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/kalam ... ii/521893/

"I suggested to both ISRO and NASA to work on future mission of Chandrayaan-II using moon surface robotic penetrator during my recent visit to California Institute of Technology in US

M Annadurai is back for Chandrayaan-2:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 060063.cms

"Chandrayaan II will not be just a probe. It will be landing on Moon and is incrementally and technically challenging mission for Indian scientists," Annadurai said in an interactive session with the students at the South Indian Education Society (SIES) college at Sion in Central Mumbai.

And India will now be including its own indigenously-made rover alongside the Russian-made one:

http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... er/371282/

“Following findings of Chandrayaan I, it would have to now look at midcourse correction of its objectives. We have to fine tune it. There is some loud thinking on the issue going on,” ISRO Chairman G Madhavan Nair had told earlier. ISRO has already completed the design of the Chandrayaan-II spacecraft. Quite interestingly, unlike the Chandrayaan-I when ISRO could not get enough proposal from India to carry scientific instruments on board Chandrayaan-I, the space agency has received good response from both Indian and international scientific community. “We have got nearly 20 proposals for carrying the instruments on board Chandrayaan-II, even before we made a formal announcement evincing the interest. But unlike Chandrayaan-I, we won’t be able to carry so many instruments. Besides, we plan to carry as much as indegenised instruments as possible this time,” Annadurai added.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Sep 2009 08:13

Mid-course correction for Chandrayaan-2: Isro

“We are making a mid-course correction for Chandrayaan-2,” G. Madhavan Nair, chairman of the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), said on Friday. “We will mine the moon’s surface much deeper to find more water.”

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Sep 2009 09:26

TIME:

Water on the Moon Buoys India's Space Program

Indian Space Research Organization chief Madhavan Nair, left, and Principal Scientist Chandrayaan-1, J.N. Goswami after finding the presence of water on the lunar surface.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Sep 2009 09:57

Haha, at least Time's Madhur Singh gave BJP credit, even after calling them "right-wing, Hindu nationalist blahblah who breached international non-proliferation norms with nuclear tests blahblah"

manoba · Post by **manoba** » 27 Sep 2009 11:28

Errrr, the ISRO lords answered my wishes (I flipped a gold coin in the wish well)...

manoba wrote:
rgsrini wrote: SaiK wrote:
I want Indian lander and not russkier lander for chandrayan-2.

I agree. Why would we want to go through all the difficulty of carrying a payload to the moon and land a Russian stuff to roam on it, unless Russia contracts/pays ISRO to do it. I hope better sense prevail amongst the scientific and political community.
Why can't they send two rovers then? One from the Russkies and second from, say the IIT-Kanpur student's project. We all know the ISRO guys are good at cramming loads of things in one single box, pack and deliver it to Chandamama's door step.

Hope the ISRO guys are reading BRF

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Sep 2009 11:54

From what I see, the reason why Indians are partnering to put a Russian rover on the Moon, is because the Russians are the only ones who know how to land on the Moon.

We could have made a rover on our own, but we wouldn't be able to land it.

The Russians are the ones with the lander technology, so they're the only ones who can actually land on the Moon. We can transport the lander to lunar orbit, but they're the only ones capable of bringing the payload from orbit down onto the surface of the Moon. So we will agree to transporting a rover that is Russian-made and Russian-controlled, in exchange for them landing that rover on the Moon and sharing the data from it with us.

But now with the discovery of water adding new investigative impetus, we may try to piggyback our own indigenous rover on the Russian lander, to get it to the surface and have it investigate more about the lunar water.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Sep 2009 13:03

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Int ... 059864.cms

First moon mission will change the way we look at planets, says ISRO chairman
26 Sep 2009, 1554 hrs IST, TNN

BANGALORE: “Our mission is indeed a resounding success,” ISRO chairman G Madhavan Nair said of Chandrayaan-1

What was your first reaction to Chandrayaan-1 finding water on Moon?

I am very excited. For the first time, India has made a scientific contribution that’s global in nature. And, for the first time, a mission has confirmed water on the Moon on this scale. The discovery is remarkable.

What does this discovery mean to Indians?

It’s a demonstration that India can do pathbreaking science in planetary exploration . And that we can do science as well as anybody else in the world. India’s first moon mission is on the verge of changing the way we look at planets.

How will the Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft be designed?

We’ll have two Rovers instead of one in the original plan - one Indian and the other Russian. They will fly along with a lander and the orbiter will be ours.

Is there possibility of habitation?

We have the first possibilities of the Moon turning into a base for further planetary exploration. We can say setting up stations is now a distinct possibility and therefore human habitation. But, there is still no life on the Moon.

Can we extract water from what we have discovered?

It could be possible if we develop novel techniques. But from 1 tonne of soil, we may get only half a litre of water and that’s a real challenge. We are still some distance away from getting water we see but we’re seeing water on a scale never seen before.

Did ISRO expect to find water?

The instruments were planned for many things, predominantly to locate minerals and understand the Moon’s surface.

While that may have revealed things anyway, we sometimes stumble upon findings we may not have exactly planned for. We’re very thankful to Carle Pieters who saw something different in the M3’s measurement of sunlight. She took a look at that different data again and through a slow but carefully examined process arrived at the conclusion that minerals apart, there was water. Because she saw something special in the M3 data, stopped and researched , we have what we have - water. It was lovely the way Nasa called me and gave a full presentation of how they arrived at the presence of water.

What’s the position on the manned mission to the Moon?

All the corrections we bring from Chandrayaaan-1 and 2 will go into the manned Moon mission that will happen in the 2020s...

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Sep 2009 13:16

The idea for a smaller Indian rover is quite new, but regarding the Russian rover, has anybody come up with a name for it yet?

Haha, if we have larger Russian rover and a smaller Indian one, let's call them Ursa-1 and Ursa-2.

Call it our poor man's version of the Constellation program, which seems to have died a faster death in the US than Chandrayaan-1 did near the Moon.

Unmanned Remote Soil Analyzer ?

Unmanned Robot for Selene Analyses ?

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 27 Sep 2009 13:37

its Luna-Glob according to russians

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Sep 2009 13:42

Huh? What kind of crappy name is that?

Who comes up with such crummy and uninspired names?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna-Glob

Luna-Glob (Russian: Луна-Глоб, meaning "Lunar sphere") is the name of a Moon-exploration program by the Russian Federal Space Agency (FKA) based on plans dating back to 1997. Due to financial problems, however, the project was put on hold only to be revived a few years later. Initially scheduled for launch in 2012,[1] the mission has been brought forward twice, first to 2010 and then to 2009. However, as of late 2008, the plan is again to meet the original 2012 launch date.
Luna-Glob is the first of four missions planned before the creation of a fully robotic lunar base scheduled for after 2015.

Luna-Glob 2

Luna-Glob 2
Organization FKA, ISRO
Mission type Landing module, moon rover
Launch date 2012
Launch vehicle Soyuz-Fregate rocket
Mission duration 1 year
Mass 1000 kg total, 50 kg rover
A Luna-Glob 2 joint orbiter-rover mission (the orbiter will be the Indian Chandrayaan-2), is also planned for in 2012, and will feature a 58 kg russian Polar Moon Rover and lander, as part of the International Lunar Network. This mission will land in Moon's south pole, examine a crater and operate for up to one year. The six wheeled, solar powered rover will land near one of the poles and will survive for a year, roving up to 150 km at a speed of 360 m/h.

I thought the launch vehicle would be GSLV-Mk3?
Should we edit this article, to update it?

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 27 Sep 2009 13:47

Well their follow on to Luna-Glob is Luna-Grunt

manoba · Post by **manoba** » 27 Sep 2009 14:13

Sanjay M wrote:From what I see, the reason why Indians are partnering to put a Russian rover on the Moon, is because the Russians are the only ones who know how to land on the Moon.

We could have made a rover on our own, but we wouldn't be able to land it.

The Russians are the ones with the lander technology, so they're the only ones who can actually land on the Moon. We can transport the lander to lunar orbit, but they're the only ones capable of bringing the payload from orbit down onto the surface of the Moon. So we will agree to transporting a rover that is Russian-made and Russian-controlled, in exchange for them landing that rover on the Moon and sharing the data from it with us.

But now with the discovery of water adding new investigative impetus, we may try to piggyback our own indigenous rover on the Russian lander, to get it to the surface and have it investigate more about the lunar water.

So the Russkies are the only ones who know the lunar landing technology, which will very well imply that all the Apollo landings are fake. Are you sure it's true? That is quite a news. I never knew the Russkies are the only ones who managed to land their objects on moon.

Sanjay M wrote: Haha, if we have larger Russian rover and a smaller Indian one, let's call them Ursa-1 and Ursa-2.

How about Ursa(e) Majoris and Ursa(e) Minoris?

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Sep 2009 14:18

manoba wrote:

So the Russkies are the only ones who know the lunar landing technology, which will very well imply that all the Apollo landings are fake. Are you sure it's true? That is quite a news. I never knew the Russkies are the only ones who managed to land their objects on moon.

You know what I mean - I'm talking about between our two countries, it's the Russians who know about Moon landings, while we don't. So we're pretty much piggybacking off of their larger Luna-Glob program, to get some science done with Chandrayaan-2.

How about Ursa(e) Majoris and Ursa(e) Minoris?

Yes, that's obviously what I was referring to - hence my comments about NASA's now defunct "Constellation" program - I just didn't want to make it sound too obvious.
Ursa-1 and Ursa-2 (big bear and little bear) would be suitable enough, without sounding corny.
Technically, since they would also be dipping into the soil to analyze it, they can also be seen as big dipper and little dipper.

Hey, I've got it - Unmanned Rover for Selene Surface Analysis

juvva · Post by **juvva** » 27 Sep 2009 14:33

Sanjay M wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna-Glob

Luna-Glob 2
................
.................
. This mission will land in Moon's south pole, examine a crater and operate for up to one year. The six wheeled, solar powered rover will land near one of the poles and will survive for a year, roving up to 150 km at a speed of 360 m/h.
.......................
.......................

I would guess "polar" rover and "solar" powered would me mutually exclusive ?

ppatil · Post by **ppatil** » 27 Sep 2009 16:54

What might have been?

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/Mini- ... earch.html

WASHINGTON – On Aug. 20, 2009 NASA and the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) will attempt a novel joint experiment that could yield more information on whether ice exists in a permanently shadowed crater near the north pole of the moon. Currently the ISRO’s Chandrayaan-1 and NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) spacecraft are orbiting the moon. While LRO is in its commissioning phase the two spacecraft pass close enough to each other when they are over the lunar north pole to attempt a unique experiment. Both spacecraft are equipped with a NASA Miniature Radio Frequency (RF) instrument that functions as a Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR), known as Mini-SAR on Chandrayaan-1 and Mini-RF on LRO. The experiment uses both radars to point at Erlanger Crater at the same time.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 27 Sep 2009 17:14

As mentioned before, CY carried on it a very interesting array of instrumentation. Ironically however in the context of this water news, few people realize the instrument/s intended to find water/ ice was not the M3...

Three of its 11 scientific payloads will look for water in the polar regions including the Shackleton crater.

One of them is the High Energy X-ray Spectrometer built by the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO).

According to ISRO, this is the first planetary experiment to carry out spectral studies at those X-ray energies capable of identifying polar regions covered by thick water-ice deposits.

The other is the Mini Synthetic Aperture Radar (MiniSAR) supplied by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) of the US.

According to NASA documents, MiniSAR is mainly intended for detecting water-ice in the permanently shadowed regions of the lunar poles up to a depth of a few meters. It can optimally distinguish water-ice from the dry lunar surface.

The other NASA-supplied payload - Moon Mineralogy Mapper - is an imaging spectrometer. It is mainly intended to assess and map lunar mineral resources but ISRO says "may also help in identifying water-ice in the lunar polar areas".

http://newsx.com/story/32683

Now we have news that MIP and HySI also were into the business of locating water..so there's going to be a lot of data here to check and cross check on. Will have to wait till the data generated by these instruments is analyzed and results published. Is anyone aware when ISRO/ associated organizations will come out with published scientific data?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 27 Sep 2009 17:24

On some checking seems there have been some sessions and they decided to give some more time to scientists because the data CY generated is voluminous..excerpts:

Top international space scientists on Monday lauded India's maiden lunar mission for the excellent quality of the data sent by Chandrayaan-1 spacecraft, a senior space agency official said.

"About 50 scientists from Europe, America and India met here to review the data received from Chandrayaan during its 10-month tryst with the moon and expressed happiness at the excellent quality of its pictures, graphs and imagery," Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) director S Satish told IANS in Bangalore.

A dozen scientists from the European Space Agency (ESA), the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) of the US and the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences participated in the day-long review meetings at the space agency's headquarters in this tech hub.

About 40 scientists from ISRO and its affiliated agencies also attended the closed-door meeting, where data from the 11 scientific instruments ('payloads') onboard the spacecraft were presented by the space agencies.

The inconclusive meeting decided to give more time for scientists of the respective space agencies to analyse the voluminous data to reveal more information about the moon, its origins and evolution," Satish said.The huge volume of data, including about 70,000 images of the moon and its structure needs a few more sittings of experts to find out the availability of chemical, mineral and water ice on the lunar surface," Satish pointed out.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Scientist ... 51318.aspx

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 27 Sep 2009 18:04

CY also discovers Helium 3, excerpts:

The Chandrayaan-1 spacecraft, which set out on India’s first lunar voyage in October last year, has identified deposits of helium-3 (He-3), accomplishing one of the key objectives of its mission, top officials of the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) said.

“Our mineral mapper has identified that there are plenty of these areas where such compounds are present. That gives the indication; we can further look for exact details of the quantity with our Chandrayaan-2 mission,” Isro chairman G Madhavan Nair said. India’s second lunar sojourn is due in 2013.

Believed to be abundant on the moon, the non-radioactive He-3 is regarded as having the potential to power future nuclear fusion reactors for hundreds of years.

Isro said its Moon Impact Probe (MIP) and Hyper Spectral Imager (HySI) — two of the 11 scientific instruments that formed the cargo of the Chandrayaan-1 spacecraft — shattered the belief that the moon is bone dry. The payloads had detected the presence of water some months ago and this was confirmed by data gathered by the American space agency Nasa. “We had indications of water way back in June, but we didn’t want to announce it for the simple reason that this is of global significance,” said Mr Nair.

Another interesting fact some people have not understood:

Ajey Lele, space analyst at The Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses (IDSA), said the discovery has proved that Chandrayaan-1 was not just a carrier of payloads: success was achieved due to the unique orientation, design and manoeuvring of the craft.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/New ... 058349.cms

More than anything else, helium 3 provides an extremely good source for fusion energy in the future. That may well be the economic intiative to launch futre moon missions for. Presence of water provides sustainability for a lunar base that could mine for He 3 for reactors on earth.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 27 Sep 2009 18:15

harbans wrote:As mentioned before, CY carried on it a very interesting array of instrumentation. Ironically however in the context of this water news, few people realize the instrument/s intended to find water/ ice was not the M3...

Three of its 11 scientific payloads will look for water in the polar regions including the Shackleton crater.

One of them is the High Energy X-ray Spectrometer built by the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO).

According to ISRO, this is the first planetary experiment to carry out spectral studies at those X-ray energies capable of identifying polar regions covered by thick water-ice deposits.

The other is the Mini Synthetic Aperture Radar (MiniSAR) supplied by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) of the US.

According to NASA documents, MiniSAR is mainly intended for detecting water-ice in the permanently shadowed regions of the lunar poles up to a depth of a few meters. It can optimally distinguish water-ice from the dry lunar surface.

The other NASA-supplied payload - Moon Mineralogy Mapper - is an imaging spectrometer. It is mainly intended to assess and map lunar mineral resources but ISRO says "may also help in identifying water-ice in the lunar polar areas".
http://newsx.com/story/32683

Now we have news that MIP and HySI also were into the business of locating water..so there's going to be a lot of data here to check and cross check on. Will have to wait till the data generated by these instruments is analyzed and results published. Is anyone aware when ISRO/ associated organizations will come out with published scientific data?

good catch harbans. it would be interesting to know what info these payloads conveyed.

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 27 Sep 2009 18:29

Gerard wrote:There was criticism of ISRO on the forum over this. Some felt that such collaboration was more appropriate to a second mission, that the first Indian probe should be an India-only affair for the sake of national pride. ISRO was said to lack understanding of PR as displayed by the Chinese.

ISRO's plan was to go solo only. It was political pressure from West-aping lobby in GoI who refused to show confidence in solo mission and instead advised to seek foreign "ashivraad".

Same lobby is the one who proposes making domestic LCA programme open to foreign arms companies. This lobby believes Indian scientists are good for nothing. Same with nuclear technologies.

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 27 Sep 2009 18:48

The most positive aspect of Indian moon mission is, it has now opened a vast scientific data on Moon mineralogy to developing countries like India and others.

Imagine India without an ISRO, approaching NASA for such scientific data. They would hear back just one word - "Stay off, you are under sanctions. You can buy from us, when our MNCs excavate there."

If NASA has came forward to join ISRO today, that shows ISRO's growing capabilities. If they don't join us today, they will miss the bus and get isolated. ISRO is on growth path and it has a reliable partner like Russian space agencies. At this point of time, ISRO has more bargaining power because it has nothing to loose.

Russia is not even a democracy but they are more open minded to Indians with technology sharing while democracies like USA are suspicious about India. That makes one ask question, what USA want for herself? A friendship or silly empire dreams?

When Russians were busy building friends in sub-continent, westerners were busy in funding dissident groups to bridge the divide between communities on the subcontinent.

There are no favours. Only business. Power respects power.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 27 Sep 2009 19:13

ISRO's plan was to go solo only. It was political pressure from West-aping lobby in GoI who refused to show confidence in solo mission and instead advised to seek foreign "ashivraad".

source please.

mahan · Post by **mahan** » 27 Sep 2009 19:22

www.chandrayaan-i.com

info!

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 27 Sep 2009 19:48

If you happen to discover a new species somewhere in Africa..you “carried” a Canon camera with you..and took a picture and told everyone that you discovered a new species…

who should get credit?
1. you
2. No Japanese..because you carried Japanese camera..(you used Japanese technology)
3. No..no wait..Chinese…because these days everything is made in china…they provided the camera…

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 27 Sep 2009 19:57

Rahul M wrote:
ISRO's plan was to go solo only. It was political pressure from West-aping lobby in GoI who refused to show confidence in solo mission and instead advised to seek foreign "ashivraad".
source please.

When CY-1 was being planned, an ISRO scientist termed it as Indian project having payloads only from IIT and SAC, on Zee Alpha(local language channel) in his interview and also gave some details of purpose of mission. Also the payloads he termed were not 11 but 5 to 6 at most.

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 27 Sep 2009 19:58

vishwakarmaa wrote:
If you happen to discover a new species somewhere in Africa..you “carried” a Canon camera with you..and took a picture and told everyone that you discovered a new species…

who should get credit?
1. you
2. No Japanese..because you carried Japanese camera..(you used Japanese technology)
3. No..no wait..Chinese…because these days everything is made in china…they provided the camera…

I am going to play the devil's advocate here:

Just because the europeans launch INSATs for us doesnt mean the INSAT belongs to them, similarly your camera logic is flawed in my opinion. You are assuming the C-1 NASA payload was available off the shelf commercial technology that ISRO could have purchased from the local doodhwala if not NASA. Eventually if Canon developed a special technology, or a spl one off custom camera and lens for you (with the express purpose of discovering a new species) and that wasn't only used to caputre a new species but that facilitated the discovery, as in you would not have discovered/achieved the same result without that spl equipment that Canon made for you then yes, part credit goes to Canon and part to you.

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 27 Sep 2009 20:07

Raveen wrote:Just because the europeans launch INSATs for us doesnt mean the INSAT belongs to them, similarly your camera logic is flawed in my opinion. You are assuming the C-1 NASA payload was available off the shelf commercial technology that ISRO could have purchased from the local doodhwala if not NASA. Eventually if Canon developed a special technology, or a spl one off custom camera and lens for you (with the express purpose of discovering a new species) and that wasn't only used to caputre a new species but that facilitated the discovery, as in you would not have discovered/achieved the same result without that spl equipment that Canon made for you then yes, part credit goes to Canon and part to you.

Its not my logic. It is X-posted from following.
http://blog.livemint.com/lab-rats/2009/ ... -hyped-up/

And, I don't need a logic to say, NASA is a greedy scientific-political organisation, rather than scientific body. That's an established fact, looking at their historic record of denying others a share in Moon minerology data. Only when under developed like ISRO announced free-ride to moon, they jumped in to take a free ride and now media limelight too. NASA or no NASA, ISRO would anyway would have accomplished the goal. NASA is not a monopoly anymore.

If they had interest in "science", they would have atleast invited Mission Incharge from ISRO in press conference, if not in doing scientific investigations together. NASA is so much paranoid of inviting ISRO to study finds of M3 together. They don't want others to learn the tricks of Moon data analysis. They lack the understanding of human values like "sharing with others".

Its not about showing off your capabilities and boasting. But its about showing generosity and sharing with others even what little you have got. ISRO shared a lot more than what they had. On other hand, NASA tried to protect lot more than what they have. Its difficult for westerners to understand these values.

Russians on other hand have been more open in sharing what they have with Indians, at the same time, they try to ensure their interests too. But, best thing about them is, they are confident and proud of their relations with Indians. For others, its difficult to understand what friends mean because they are greedy and greedy people don't make friends. They only run behind wealth and try to keep it to themselves only(Hint: creation of NSG).

I posted that quote just to check how people respond to that.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Sep 2009 20:18

juvva wrote:
Sanjay M wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna-Glob

Luna-Glob 2
................
.................
. This mission will land in Moon's south pole, examine a crater and operate for up to one year. The six wheeled, solar powered rover will land near one of the poles and will survive for a year, roving up to 150 km at a speed of 360 m/h.
.......................
.......................
I would guess "polar" rover and "solar" powered would me mutually exclusive ?

Well, that would make our rovers "polar bears"

So I again vote for Ursa-1 and Ursa-2 as names for them.

I'm also wondering if the rovers couldn't also be powered by microwaves beamed down from the orbiter? If a rover carried a rectenna to supplement its solar panels, then the rectenna could catch microwave energy beamed down from the Chandrayaan-2 orbiter to provide it with power when there was no direct solar energy available for the rover. This would enable operation in shadowed areas where the rovers might otherwise not be able to go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_ ... ansmission

The Russian rover's design has already been completed, but since the Indian rover is yet to even be designed, I think that it should be made to include a rectenna in its design.
Even if the rovers aren't actually going to go into the shadowed regions on this mission, I feel that the microwave-beaming-to-rectenna idea should still be included, in order to test out the technology, which could prove to be valuable on other future missions. At some point, we're going to want to go into the shadowed unlit areas to investigate the cold traps for their water and helium-3 content, and an orbital-microwave-beaming power supply could greatly facilitate such activities.

How can I submit my idea to ISRO - specifically the designers working on the Indian rover?
(I'm talking about the rover names, as well as the microwave-beaming idea)

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 27 Sep 2009 20:25

http://www.chandrayaan-i.com

Chandrayaan-1 mission poll:
Is Chandrayaan Mission Successful ?

Yes - 665 - 86.1%
No - 78 - 10.1%
I don't know - 29 - 3.8%

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 27 Sep 2009 20:28

vishwakarmaa wrote:[They lack the understanding of human values like "sharing with others".

...

Its difficult for westerners to understand these values.

Russians on other hand have been more open in sharing what they have with Indians, at the same time, they try to ensure their interests too. But, best thing about them is, they are confident and proud of their relations with Indians. For others, its difficult to understand what friends mean because they are greedy and greedy people don't make friends. They only run behind wealth and try to keep it to themselves only(Hint: creation of NSG).

I posted that quote just to check how people respond to that.

I have realized a few things sir,
1. You have something negative to say about anything that lies to west of the west most point of the Russian border.
2. You can not post without attacking someone, and how that any of this is more acceptable or justified than the member who got a month off for using a similar tone beats me.
3. You will take any and every oppurtunity to plug in your Soviet/Communist/Russian dream into every post of every thread irrespective of how irrelevant and OT it might be.
Hence I appologize, but I can not argue/discuss with you...for multiple reasons including the fact that I don't want to facilitate your Soviet/Communist propoganda here. Thank you for your time.

manoba · Post by **manoba** » 27 Sep 2009 20:31

vishwakarmaa wrote:If you happen to discover a new species somewhere in Africa..you “carried” a Canon camera with you..and took a picture and told everyone that you discovered a new species…

The problem is, it is the "Canon" guys who first told the world that a discovery of new species has been made in Africa.

That is where the ISRO is lagging. The ISRO tells, that MIP and HySI have already made the discovery of H2O and OH presence on moon way back in June. Then what were they waiting for? They didn't have the balls to announce it first. Instead, they were waiting for the US of A to bless and "halal"ize the discovery.

The NASA cons grabbed the opportunity, and claimed that it is the Cassini which "made the discovery first" which is "confirmed" by Deep Impact Probe's data which is finally "strongly confirmed" by M3. And yes there is something called ISRO which is also part of this process. No mention of "free ride". No inclusion of ISRO guys in the panel.

And we are still waiting for the MIP and HySI results. Even if we get excellent result from those data, the humble, Gandhian ISRO won't claim any publicity.

Whereas the NASA clowns dance up and down singing "We serve humanity". Sigh. There are clowns and there are clowns.