Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

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Anujan
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Anujan »

raghunath wrote:‘World should investigate Kashmir rights abuses’ : Qureshi :(( :((

So much takleef for the TSP FM Qureshi after SM Krishna shot-down the left-, right-, front-, back-channel diplomacy offer.
He said that after he finished watching this video of brave and gentle pakistani army in swat.

Image

BBC Article. With this submission, it is clear that pakistani army has one-upped taliban in swat. It has made its own video of abusing random pakistani citizens. So is messiah chaudry going to take notice of this ?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

Arihant affects 'strategic stability' in the region
We can now expect that Pakistan will receive some sort of a nuke boat from its 3½ friends (1½ of them can only fund).
Pakistan foreign minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi on Thursday said that the recent launch of a nuclear-powered submarine by India has undermined strategic stability in the region.

"We are opposed to nuclear proliferation as well as an arms race in the region," he said, adding that Pakistan believes the launch of the Indian nuclear-powered submarine will affect strategic stability.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Prem »

Anujan wrote:
raghunath wrote:‘World should investigate Kashmir rights abuses’ : Qureshi :(( :((

So much takleef for the TSP FM Qureshi after SM Krishna shot-down the left-, right-, front-, back-channel diplomacy offer.
He said that after he finished watching this video of brave and gentle pakistani army in swat.

Image

BBC Article. With this submission, it is clear that pakistani army has one-upped taliban in swat. It has made its own video of abusing random pakistani citizens. So is messiah chaudry going to take notice of this ?
Hence forth he shall be called Show Maha-boob Qooraishi of Pakistan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

Vivek_A wrote:TFT is out and grand poohbah, speaking for the TSPA, is distressed at the GUBOing

No prizes for guessing what Pakistan will do

Ejaz Haider
From the time Jinnah told the US journalist that "the US needed Pakistan more than Pakistan needed the US", either situations developed in such ways that Pakistan was at an advantage and exploited them or Pakistan 'created' situations. Nevertheless, the wicked ingenuity of Pakistan has to be recognized. Ejaz Haider brings out once again the audacity with which Pakistan pursues its dream.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

US pouring money into Pakistan through various ways
The United States and Pakistan on Thursday signed agreements worth $899 million in the areas of health, education, governance, and reconstruction.

“The agreements bring the total obligations to Pakistan through USAID this year to $920 million,” a statement by the US embassy said.

These agreements are in addition to the Enhanced Partnership with Pakistan Act of 2009, often referred to as the Kerry-Lugar bill, which is expected to further increase development funding for Pakistan to $1.5 billion per year for five years.
Meanwhile, how do the Pakistanis view the Americans ? Most Pakistanis reject US partnership: Poll
An overwhelming majority of Pakistanis continues to reject the US as a partner in the country’s fight against militancy, to a recent poll conducted by the International Republican Institute (IRI) reveals.

The findings are based on face-to-face interviews with 4,900 Pakistani adults conducted between July 15 and August 7. The organisation, financed by the US government, found that 80 percent of the respondents opposed the US assistance in Pakistan’s fight against terrorism – a 19 percent increase since March.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Satya_anveshi »

a_kumar wrote:I don't subscribe to the theory that only reason West got Pak's back is to needle India. It was definitely the theory 60 years back. Its more deep now.
Saar..what are you saying? You don't believe that as the only reason but are saying its more deep now. :)

All this has been said over and over and over again here but somehow we keep repeating (that's the fun of forum :lol: )

Think what was the strategy to create Pakistan? Has the dynamic changed now? What can change that dynamic? How to achieve that change in dynamic ?
So, let’s focus on the first question:
Pakistan as a bulwark against India. Why?
+India has potential to challenge west across many spheres of influence:
o Socio-Cultural –Soft power it projects in its greater neighborhood not just immediate; Hinduism, Buddhism are practiced by over 80% in the immediate neighborhood;
o Political - together with neighboring countries can pose significant challenge in any multilateral forum and there by prevent the outcome desired by status quo powers
o Economic – Self sustaining economy that is mostly independent of global economy, self sufficient in natural resources, currency shared by its neighbors and accepted in the greater neighborhood;
o Military – Armed forces that can back any goal that the country likes to achieve within the democratic and righteous mandate
+India has potential impediment in their resource grab – Actually this is an extension of economic factor above
o With huge population it does need access to resources that have often competing demands from various countries. In effort to get its share albeit at an unfairly lower cost over longer durations, the west will consider India an impediment
+Race / Religion
o IMO these are important factors too and are critical elements of soft power. India is in a unique position to a project more logical and appealing version of religion that can fit anyone spiritual needs and wants. These are differences in identity are therefore subject to imposition of superiority / morale booster / aid in maintaining cohesion. We can clearly see the contempt with which they see their respective counterparts (be it race based or religion based) and it is visible. How come a bunch of pagans and us be at the same level and share space equitably? Let’s impose our superiority by whatever means.

If you see a lot of power attributable to India depends on good relations and partnership with neighbors. Obvious fault line was along the religious divisions and rest is history.

Ofcourse we have to go thru other questions but in short the solutions is a) fix the paki problem by reducing it to smaller zize, may be to the size of BD or better like Nepal. b) reinvigourate , revitalizing SAARC and realize its fullest potential.
Last edited by Satya_anveshi on 02 Oct 2009 10:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Suraj »

Suraj wrote:India's economy already has an annual increment roughly equal to or exceeding the Paki one, give or take a few $$ depending on dynamic exchange rates. For example, between the last two fiscal years (07-08 and 08-09), our GDP grew approx $170-200 billion, more than the largest (inflated) figure for their GDP.
In addition to the above, soon, there will be a handful of Indian states whose economic output exceed that of Pakistan. For example, Maharashtra, UP, TN, AP and Gujarat are all candidates whose GSDP isn't far from their GDP, particularly that of the first two. Any engagement should repeatedly underline this simple economic disparity and their subsequent irrelevance, as a reason for any lack of overtures on our part.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

US of today has its roots in India of Mahatma Gandhi: Obama
"His teachings and ideals, shared with Martin Luther King Jr. on his 1959 pilgrimage to India, transformed American society through our civil rights movement," Obama said on the occasion of the birth anniversary of Mahatma Gandhi. Americans owe enormous gratitude to Gandhi, he said.

"The America of today has its roots in the India of Mahatma Gandhi and the nonviolent social action movement for Indian independence which he led," Obama said in a statement.

On behalf of the American people, Obama said he wants to express appreciation for the life and lessons of Mahatma Gandhi on the anniversary of his birth. "This is an important moment to reflect on his message of non-violence, which continues to inspire people and political movements across the globe," he said.

"We join the people of India in celebrating this great soul who lived a life dedicated to the cause of advancing justice, showing tolerance to all, and creating change through non-violent resistance," Obama said.

As the world remembers the Mahatma on his birthday, Obama said: "We must renew our commitment to live his ideals and to celebrate the dignity of all human beings.

Last month Obama had said that if given a chance he would love to have dinner with Mahatma Gandhi.
For the benefit of our Pak lurkers, where does it leave Jinnah ? After all, hasn't Pakistan been the most allied of allies and tighter than the tightest buddies ? And, hasn't Jinnah always considered him to be at least equal if not superior to Mahatma Gandhi ? Obviously, Obama's appreciation of Gandhiji's non-violent resistance to win freedom means just the opposite for Jinnah et al's violent means, doesn't it ? Didn't those who clamoured for Pakistan in those days disapprove of ahimsa as something untenable to Muslims as they argued that Prophet Mohammed, PBUH, had preached only the use of sword ?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

The 'Mother of all Wars' looms in Waziristan
After fighting brief skirmishes against militants, the Pakistan Army plans to unfold in the next few days what military officials characterise as the mother of all battles in South Waziristan, senior military and security officials said on Thursday.

‘If we don’t take the battle to them, they will bring the battle to us,’ a senior military official said of the militants. ‘The epicentre of the behemoth called the Taliban lies in South Waziristan, and this is where we will be fighting the toughest of all battles.’

For three months, the military has been drawing up plans, holding in-depth deliberations and carrying out studies on past expeditions to make what seems to be the last grand stand against Pakistani Taliban in the Mehsud heartland a success.

‘We are ready. The environment is ready,’ the senior officer said. But military officials also admit Waziristan will not be an easy battle. ‘It will not be a walkover. This is going to be casualty-intensive hard fighting. The nation will have to bear the pain,’ said another officer.

Already this past summer, the military has lost more than three hundred of its soldiers in the Swat valley. One out of ten was officer — the highest soldier-to-officer casualty ratio in any war, skirmish or operation in the world, a spokesman for the military said. {Is that true ?}
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

Pak fears rising India in Afghanistan: US Official
Pakistan believes Afghanistan is developing into an Indian garrison and has been nurturing groups like the Taliban and Lashkar-e-Tayiba over the years to counter it, a key United States Senate Committee has been told. {It is neither in India's interest definitely nor even in the US interest to let the Taliban come back and the Strategic Depth re-emanate. Such a situation will re-create Al Qaeda, my be under a new name. But, it will cetainly happen because no Islamic country likes the US, especially more so the Pakistanis. The US has to see the writing on the wall. It cannot buy these people by offering them money and arms or succumbing to their pressure.}

"I am not making any accusations against any given country in the region. All of them are looking out for their vital interests. But India is becoming involved in Afghanistan to an extent that the Pakistanis consider Afghanistan as developing into an Indian garrison," Milt Bearden, ex-Central Intelligence Agency Station Chief in Islamabad told Senators during a hearing.

"This is not hysteria. This is a real concern," he said in his testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee during the hearing on 'Afghanistan's Impact on Pakistan.' He also noted that China has its own interest in the region and has taken a 25 per cent share of a huge copper operation in Afghanistan. "They are building a major port in Pakistan at Gwadar," he added.

"Meanwhile, the Indians, working with the Iranians, are doing the same thing across -- in Iran on the Arabian Sea, building a major port. You have China getting a naval anchor on the Arabian Sea in Pakistan, India and Iran doing exactly the same thing across the border," Bearden said.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by harbans »

Pakistan believes Afghanistan is developing into an Indian garrison and has been nurturing groups like the Taliban and Lashkar-e-Tayiba over the years to counter it, a key United States Senate Committee has been told.
Complete lie and fabrication being told to the US Senate committee.

1. LeT and Taliban were Pakistans creations in the first place, not Afghanistan.
2. When they were created India had no presence, no garisson in Afghanistan. Including in Soviet times.
3. LeT has little or nothing to do with Afghanistan. It is India centric.
"This is not hysteria. This is a real concern,"
Whats the real concern here:

Afghanistan becoming an Indian garisson with 20 odd soldiers? Or Pakistan nurturing Taliban and AlQaeda to counter Indian influence?
US must make it's mind up on what sort of influence it would like prevailing in Afghanistan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by shiv »

harbans wrote: Whats the real concern here: .
Let me tell you he real concern here, from the link provided by S Sridhar
Pak fears rising India in Afghanistan: US Official

The real concern is that idiot mentioned in the link, Milt Bearden, ex-Central Intelligence Agency Station Chief in Islamabad is a oiseaule of the first order who would perfectly fit the role of "Man from the Cape" in the following poem by Shakespeare

There was a man from the Cape
Who wanted to bugger an ape
The ape said, "You fool!"
"I've got a square tool"
"And I'll bugger your a*se out of shape!"
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by BijuShet »

SSridhar wrote:The Kerry-Lugar Bill
But some lawmakers expressed scepticism that Pakistan would ever become a real partner. “Both governments – the Chinese and the Pakistanis – plot and manoeuvre against our interests all the time,” said Representative Dana Rohrbacher, a Republican.

“The threat of radical Islam is real, but it’s not going to be solved by us being irresponsible” with billions in taxpayer money, he said.
Just as an FYI, Dana Rohrbacher is a known India hater in the House of Reps and he has a history of proposing anti-Indian interests bills. So I dont put much value when he is anti-TSP coz it may be some play acting on his part.

U.S. rejects calls for a plebiscite
By Sridhar Krishnaswami
Washington July 19. The Bush administration has brushed aside calls for a plebiscite in Jammu and Kashmir saying that it was for India and Pakistan to settle the issue bilaterally. The United States also said that it saw the coming elections in the State as a first step towards the resolution of the problem.

"... The U.S. supported successive U.N. efforts... But in 1972, India and Pakistan reached an agreement (Shimla) that it would be a bilateral issue. We support India and Pakistan and we are working towards getting these two countries to the table to resolve the issue,'' the U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for South Asia, Christina Rocca, said at a hearing in a House International Relations Sub-Committee.

Ms. Rocca was responding to the Republican Congressman, Dana Rohrabacher of California, who wanted to know where the Bush administration stood on the issue of plebiscite. A critic of India, Mr. Rohrabacher, in his opening remarks, argued that much of the instability in the sub-continent stemmed from the "unwillingness, arrogance and intransigence'' on the part of India for not permitting the people of Kashmir the "right to control their own destiny''


As the Hon. Dana Rohrabacher, (R-Cal) had said as far as the minorities (the Sikhs, Muslims in general, Muslims of the Internationally Disputed Areas of Jammu and Kashmir, Christians, Dalits, Adivasasis or the indigenous native people, and other non-Hindu, non-Brahmin) are concerned, India is a Nazi Germany for them (Tim Phares 2006 Int J Sikh Affairs 16(1),40-42 ISSN 1481-5435).
...
Resolution for plebiscite in Punjab
Two US Congressmen from California introduced a resolution in the US House of Representatives, suggesting an internationally-supervised plebiscite in Punjab on the demand for an independent Khalistan which the Clinton administration has publicly opposed. California has a sizeable population of Sikh immigrants.
The proposal, by Democrat Gary Condit and Republican Dana Rohrabacher, is unlikely to have any political significance, something like the special mentions in the Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha during zero hour in India.

The resolution is apparently part of an effort to keep alive the controversy raised when US vice-president Al Gore’s office inadvertantly sent a reply to the leader of a proponent of Khalistan in Gore’s name claiming he had taken note of the matter.

Earlier, Republican Dan Burton had given notice of an amendment to the US Foreign Aid Bill, seeking to cut development assistance to India because of its human rights record. While the proposal is likely to fall through, it could trigger a discussion on India’s human rights record, repellent as it is to India.
wiki on Gurmit Singh Aulakh
...
Anti-India legislations
Aulakh and his supporters have been active in introducing anti-India legislations and have opposed aid to India.

In 1997, HR 182, the Human Rights in India Act, was sponsored by Rep. Dan Burton (R-IN) and Rep. Gary Condit (D-CA). to cut-off U.S. development aid to India until the president certifies to Congress that India has taken "certain steps to prevent human rights abuses" in India. Another resolution, H. Con. Res. 37, sponsored by Condit and Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) called for an internationally-supervised plebiscite in Punjab on the question of independence for the region. The act secured the support of only 82 members while 342 voted against it. Gurmit Singh Aulakh was involved in these legislations.[4][5]

Almost none of these legislations have had any major effect. Dan Burton beat a hasty retreat again in the House of Representatives in August 1999, withdrawing his amendment seeking a 25 per cent cut in the US development aid to India, in the face of an overwhelming opposition. Burton could line up only two lawmakers to speak in his favor. On the other hand, at least 21 Congressmen successfully resisted the anti-India proposal. The opposition to the anti-India measure was so strong that Burton withdrew instead facing a decisive defeat on the floor.[5]
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by AnimeshP »

Chicago Loses Bid To Host 2016 Olympics
Hours after President Obama personally lobbied the International Olympic Committee, Chicago was the first city eliminated from contention for hosting the 2016 Olympics, finishing last in among four contenders in the voting.

Guess who sabotaged Chicago's Olympic dreams ... Obama is not going to be happy ... :rotfl:

IOC votes for 2016 Olympic host
An uncomfortable moment for Chicago came when an IOC member from Pakistan, Syed Shahid Ali, noted that going through U.S. customs can be harrowing for foreigners.

Obama responded that he wanted a Chicago games to offer "a reminder that America at its best is open to the world."
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by ramana »

On the contrary he will increase the 'subsidy' to TSP from $7.5B to $10B!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Gus »

shiv wrote:The real concern is that idiot mentioned in the link, Milt Bearden, ex-Central Intelligence Agency Station Chief in Islamabad is a oiseaule of the first order ...
Milton Bearden was CIA station chief of Islamaintbad during the heights of CIA-ISI run Afghan jihad. He is one of those who has 'gone native'. He has consistently pushed, mouthed, defended etc...Pakistani interests. He backed Hekmatyar, was against Massoud, blocked all efforts by well-meaning but cloutless officials who tried to push for a broad based coalition of moderate elements of Afghan jihad coming to power in Afg following Soviet withdrawal. He backed the Pakistani line of 'strategic depth' which, among other things, led to training camps in Afg through which killers were trained and sent to kill Indians.

Bearden has a lot of blood, Afghan and Indian, on his hands. A few years back, after his retirement, in a televised war game, he moved for nuking advancing Indian troops in Pakistan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Prem »

Pakistani probe indicts Lashkar for Mumbai attack: NYT


Washington: Pakistan’s own investigation into 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks concludes "beyond any reasonable doubt" that it was militants from the terror group Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) who carried out the carnage, according to the New York Times.Among the organizers, the Pakistani investigation document says, was Hammad Amin Sadiq, a homeopathic pharmacist, who arranged bank accounts and secured supplies. Pakistani and Indian dossiers on the Mumbai investigations, copies of which the Times said were obtained by it, offer a detailed picture of the operations of a Lashkar network that spans Pakistan. It included four houses and two training camps in Karachi that were used to prepare the 26/11 attacks. According to testimony by the only surviving attacker, Ajmal Kasab, 22, Lashkar recruits were vetted and trained around the country, including at well-established camps in Muzaffarabad, in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir, as well as in Mansehra, in North-West Frontier Province. A core group, the 10 chosen for the Mumbai assault, was eventually moved to Karachi and its suburbs, where the real drilling began and where Pakistani investigators later retraced the plotters’ steps. Beginning as early as May 2008, the group trained and planned brazenly while living in various neighborhoods in and around Karachi. They made scores of calls using cellphones, some with stolen numbers, starting in August. They set up voice lines over the Internet. At one water sports shop, they bought inflatable boats, air pumps, life jackets and engines. One of their training camps, with five thatched rooms and a three-room house, was located near a creek, where they conducted water drills in the open. Police later recovered an abundance of evidence: militant literature, pocket diaries, spent and live ammunition, empty gun magazines, life vests and receipts for supplies, including distributed weapons and explosives, the Pakistani dossier says, according to the Times. At the other camp, which they named Azizabad, the group and their trainers set up a classroom. Using handwritten manuals, the recruits were trained how to use mobile phones to keep in contact with their handlers during the attack. They pored over detailed maps of the Indian coastline, plotting the course they would take to Mumbai. They learned how to use global positioning devices. Working from Millat Town, a dusty, middle-class Karachi suburb on the eastern edge of the city, Sadiq organized the cadre. Neighbors described him as quiet and pious, riding around the streets with his two young sons perched on his motorbike. The Pakistani dossier, according to the Times, says he was a committed Lashkar militant
http://www.thepakistaninewspaper.com/ne ... p?id=14679
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Gagan »

Milton Bearden
ImageImageImage
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Nandu »

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by a_kumar »

Satya_anveshi wrote: Think what was the strategy to create Pakistan? Has the dynamic changed now? What can change that dynamic? How to achieve that change in dynamic ?
So, let’s focus on the first question:
Pakistan as a bulwark against India. Why?
+India has potential to challenge west across many spheres of influence:
o Socio-Cultural –Soft power it projects in its greater neighborhood not just immediate; Hinduism, Buddhism are practiced by over 80% in the immediate neighborhood;
o Political - together with neighboring countries can pose significant challenge in any multilateral forum and there by prevent the outcome desired by status quo powers
o Economic – Self sustaining economy that is mostly independent of global economy, self sufficient in natural resources, currency shared by its neighbors and accepted in the greater neighborhood;
o Military – Armed forces that can back any goal that the country likes to achieve within the democratic and righteous mandate
+India has potential impediment in their resource grab – Actually this is an extension of economic factor above
o With huge population it does need access to resources that have often competing demands from various countries. In effort to get its share albeit at an unfairly lower cost over longer durations, the west will consider India an impediment
+Race / Religion
o IMO these are important factors too and are critical elements of soft power. India is in a unique position to a project more logical and appealing version of religion that can fit anyone spiritual needs and wants. These are differences in identity are therefore subject to imposition of superiority / morale booster / aid in maintaining cohesion. We can clearly see the contempt with which they see their respective counterparts (be it race based or religion based) and it is visible. How come a bunch of pagans and us be at the same level and share space equitably? Let’s impose our superiority by whatever means.

If you see a lot of power attributable to India depends on good relations and partnership with neighbors. Obvious fault line was along the religious divisions and rest is history.
All good points. But, the days of India leading NAM are long gone. Those were the times where Indian currency was more widely used. Those were also the times where lot of nations allayed behind India. That initiative has watered down and post-coldwar the countries got absorbed under the Saud/Islam or Chini bhais. Even though India was a closed economy, it held a lot more clout (just counting the numbers) 30-40 years ago than now. As for social-cultural-political points, the powers-be don't need Pakistan. We have our own breed of secularists and YSRs to eat away at the core.

Just goodwill from smuggled DVDs of Bollywood will not suffice. There is soft power and there is soft "power". It is soft "power" only if it is nurtured by the policy makers to actually be of any use. Where are we with that?

I completely agree that the deep hatred of Atlantists (well hidden) benefits Pakistan. But, none of this explains Japan's role in all this, which is the odd man out (US/UK/China have obvious reasons). Whatever keeps Japan in the group ("X-factor"), must also be in play with others. We don't understand this right now and so we cannot counter it. If there are theories, I would be glad to see pointers.

My point in the end is, West's current obsession with Pakistan *cannot* be *completely explained* away with "they hate India". By sticking to that viewpoint, we are missing out on the things that may actually matter in this equation.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by A_Gupta »

Thanks for the warm welcome!

For a while I've been fed up with the whole Paki. mess and simply stopped following things.
Here to catch up :)

Y'all might have noted that US economic policy is run by the bankers. Foreign policy has not yet fallen to them. But maybe it will :)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Airavat »

Gus wrote:Milton Bearden was CIA station chief of Islamaintbad during the heights of CIA-ISI run Afghan jihad. He has consistently pushed, mouthed, defended etc...Pakistani interests....... Bearden has a lot of blood, Afghan and Indian, on his hands. A few years back, after his retirement, in a televised war game, he moved for nuking advancing Indian troops in Pakistan.
Thanks for the info. Bearden really is a pseudo-jihadi.

Afghanistan Focus of Senate Foreign Relations

John Kerry agreed with Bearden that al Qaeda isn't in Afghanistan anymore, but questioned if the United States has achieved its goal. He said the United States might want to keep a presence in Afghanistan in order to keep al Qaeda at bay.

Here again, Bearden appeared to have no worries. "I don't see all those planets lining up again ever," he said. Former Pakistani ambassador Lodhi agreed. "Al Qaeda exists more as an idea today," Lodhi said in a slightly British accent.

"There is no possible way for the United States to supply enough troops to pacify the situation," Bearden said. He estimated that roughly 500,000 troops would be needed to pacify the region, something he said could only be done with a draft.

New Hampshire Democrat Jeanne Shaheen questioned Bearden's earlier suggestion that the United States should not give militants a reason to fight. She said the militants have often brought it on themselves, noting that they abuse girls who go to school, inciting the military to provide security, and then the process escalates. Bearden responded by calling the girls' schools "a nice thought" but said they have been "a lightning rod" for conflict, and questioned whether the United States should be imposing its social ideals on the Afghan culture.

Wow! A real jihadi this ex-CIA clown has become. Crafty old fart will never acknowledge that girls' schools functioned under the Northern Alliance of Ahmad Shah Massoud, and their closure in other parts of Afghanistan was done by the alien creed of the Taliban and the Pakistan Army:
Ambassador Farhadi told CNN: "The Taliban has implemented what they call their version of Islam. They have closed all girls' schools. They have forbidden all women's education. They have imposed total seclusion on Afghanistan's women. They are against all signs of civilization -- no TV, no music -- this is bringing Afghanistan to the Middle Ages."
The Murder of Commander Ahmad Shah Massoud
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by pgbhat »

Threats to the state ---- Farzana Bari
Pakistan appears to be crumbling down not because of external threats but from the internal crisis intensified by the competing forces within the state elite and institutions. The contemporary crisis of the state and its internal contradictions can only be understood in its historical and colonial context.

Pakistan inherited internal and external security dilemmas from the colonial rule as part of independence. The major internal threat to the state stems from the very ideology of Pakistan itself. In the absence of a commonly shared notion of nationhood, the post-colonial state establishment started using Islam as a unifying force to keep the ethnically and culturally diverse population together. The state was Islamised through the Objectives Resolution in 1949. Thus, the ideology of Pakistan created a need for a strong centre. Despite the initial contract between the centre and the various federating units that the latter would be sovereign and autonomous, the centre refused to grant provincial autonomy to its federating units in the successive military and civilian governments for the last 62 years. The over-centralised state created tension between the federal and provincial units. The independence of Bangladesh was a nail in the coffin of the ideology of Pakistan.
The criminal neglect of human security concerns and lack of investment in human capital by the self-serving state elite is the most serious threat to Pakistan -- not external but emanating from within the national borders.

To save the country from contemporary traditional and non-traditional security threat, the new social contract is the need of the day. The key element of this new contract must include the separation of religion from state, :rotfl: {And become kufr India} complete provincial autonomy, balance between the security needs of the individual, community and state, massive investment in human capital, inclusion of citizens in governance, gender equality and an independent foreign policy.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

Twists, Turns & U-turns
Did Pakistan’s strategy as a major supporter of the Taliban actually change?

I believe that even the talking heads on our private TV channels have realised by now that General Musharraf’s support to the Taliban did not reverse; it merely became clandestine. As all records and memoirs of the Winter War of 2001-02 show, Al Qaeda and the Taliban consciously fled south and east from the ISAF bombings, knowing they would find safety in Pakistan. . . . Therefore, no real U-turn by Musharraf in 2001, merely continued clandestine support of the Taliban assets who had helped project Pakistan’s “strategic depth” into Afghanistan. If there was any U-turn, it was by the US Presidency, which reversed its principled disapproval of usurper regimes to becoming a ‘tight buddy’ of General Musharraf. This was not just a change of personalities in the White House. It was a fundamental change of tactics. An American U-turn, if there ever was one.
Read the whole article. Quite interesting coming from a Paki. This particular author has been one of the saner analysts in Pakistan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by pgbhat »

No place to keep surrendering Taliban: Gilani
ISLAMABAD: Following the successful military operation in Swat, Malakand and their surrounding tribal areas, the government is now having trouble accommodating the thousands of Taliban who have surrendered to security forces, said Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani on Friday.

Addressing the Senate, he said 3,000 terrorists had surrendered to the government already and another 2,000 were expected to surrender in the coming weeks. However, he added, there was no room to house all these prisoners. Discussing law and order, he said the government had successfully brought the situation under control with the help of the nation and its political leadership.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Satya_anveshi »

SSridhar wrote:This particular author has been one of the saner analysts in Pakistan
It is indeed a fresh breath of air amidst the stink of toilet aka pakistan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Satya_anveshi »

a_kumar wrote:But, none of this explains Japan's role in all this, which is the odd man out (US/UK/China have obvious reasons). Whatever keeps Japan in the group ("X-factor"), must also be in play with others. We don't understand this right now and so we cannot counter it. If there are theories, I would be glad to see pointers.
Following possible explainations:

[*]Provides ability to gain and influence NoKo, which has developed relationship with Pakistan. This can be easily established/proved if we see historical relationship of Pakistan with Japan.
[*]Japan tries its best to be considered as "west"
[*]US leverage on Japan makes it to do
[*]simply to snub India and gain leverage knowing India wont retaliate (if so, we need to show it them once and fix this)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

Another US diplomat in TSP also speaks of Quetta Shura
Feierstein {Gerald M Feierstein – the deputy chief of the US mission in Pakistan } claimed that Afghan Taliban leaders were “hiding in Quetta, and creating problems for international troops through the Quetta shura”. He said Mullah Muhammad Omar “moves freely across the border and some other major cities of Pakistan, including Karachi”. {So, MQM's assertions about Taliban in Karachi, which the Pak govt. denies, are true, then ?}

We are confident that Mullah Omar is in Quetta. We do believe that these people move around, but their locus of operation is Quetta,” he added.

He did not directly blame Pakistan for “showing indifference towards cross-border activities of the Taliban”, but maintained that “individuals” in Pakistan were sympathetic towards them.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Lalmohan »

milton mian clearly doesnt understand the concept of khilafat and dar-ul-islam. appease the jehad and it will become benign... ever since the christians formally gave up on global crusade they've totally misunderstood wahabbism
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Dilbu »

Lalmohan wrote:milton mian clearly doesnt understand the concept of khilafat and dar-ul-islam. appease the jehad and it will become benign... ever since the christians formally gave up on global crusade they've totally misunderstood wahabbism
They have never seen it upclose to completely understand the danger of underlying ideology. A Palestine problem or a taliban run afghanistan was always thought of as situations to be 'contained' and utilised to manipulate the immediate neighbourhood. They try to see each hotspot individually (eg.cashmere issue) and miss the big picture of global jihad entirely.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

US should not do a Sabra or a Shatila like action on Quetta
Pakistan cannot do a Sabra-Shatila in Quetta, warns Dr Maleeha Lodhi, the former Pakistani envoy to the US and Britain.

“If we tried, for example, to do a Sabra and a Shatila in one of the camps in Quetta, you can imagine what the outcry will be from within Pakistan, much less the international community,” she told the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations.

This was a reference to the 1982 massacre of Palestinian refugees in Sabra and Shatila in Lebanon when the Israeli army surrounded the two camps and allowed a Christian militia to kill more than 3,000 people. {That pales into comparison with the Zia-ul-Haq led operation of Black September on hapless Palestenians in their refugee camps in Jordan in 1970-71 when over 25000 Palestenians and co-religionists were massacred in cold blood}
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Lalmohan »

Dilbu wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:milton mian clearly doesnt understand the concept of khilafat and dar-ul-islam. appease the jehad and it will become benign... ever since the christians formally gave up on global crusade they've totally misunderstood wahabbism
They have never seen it upclose to completely understand the danger of underlying ideology.
actually they have.

the crusades were not far off the mark here, except it was a 2 way thing. the british empire certainly understood it in terms of the 1857 events - which had a far bigger jehadi underpinning than our secular education tells us (and a far more focused anti-muslim response from the forces of empire) - and atleast 60-70 years of frontier warfare in the pashtun heartlands, whilst simulataneously keeping an eye on egypt and turkey fighting the wahabbi/sauds in the gulf and their own wars in north africa and the sudan (remember the mahdi?). the british, french and dutch a 150 years ago understood the nature of global jehad, just that they were overwhelmingly powerful to let it worry them too much.

its the americans who don't get it
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by rohitvats »

I know this should go into the book review section but considering that this concerns Partition and story of formation of Pakistan, I thought of posting it here. This is one book every self respecting jingo should read. Apologies if it has been posted earlier:
Book Review: The Shadow of the Great Game – The Untold Story of India’s Partition
Well-researched, demolishes many myths and presents an intriguing perspective on India Pakistan Partition

The Shadow of the Great Game – The Untold Story of India’s Partition by Narendra Singh Sarila - Carroll & Graft Publishers, New York, 2006


This is a well researched, extremely readable book that has largely gone unnoticed, just as its main thesis about the geo-strategic drivers and theAnglo-Russian ‘Great Game’ has received scant study in the historical events leading up to India’s Partition in 1947. This book should serve as a cautionary tale to Indians and Pakistanis alike, although for different reasons for each.

The author, Narendra Singh Sarila, was the aide-de-camp to Earl Mountbatten of Burma, the last Viceroy of India, and had a ring-side view of the events just before and after Partition.

Partition remains a defining historical moment for the Indian Subcontinent, and has received significant scrutiny by many researchers. As the British government selectively publishes historical documents surrounding Partition, researches have access to new materials to rewrite history and challenge conventional theories. In the 1980s, the British government declassified certain theretofore secret documents 40 years after Partition. The eminent Pakistani author, Ayesha Jalal, used this material and provided a new twist to the conventional wisdom on Partition by putting forth a well-researched and plausible thesis that Jinnah used the notion of a sovereign Pakistani state as a bargaining chip to extract greater concessions for Muslim-majority provinces from the Congress Party of India. Her book, The Sole Spokesman, also made the claim that Jinnah never desired an undivided India (despite his public pronouncements and bluster to the contrary), but rather a federated India with provincial autonomy. The eminent Indian jurist, H.M. Seervai, reached approximately the same conclusion in his magnum opus, “Partition Of India: Legend And Reality”. Seervai challenged the existing view that blamed the partition of India on the Muslim League. He argued instead that it was the latent bias on the part of Indian National Congress leadership which resulted in partition. Both these books have been controversial, but have also been thoroughly researched.

Sarila decided to write his book, “The Shadow of the Great Game – The Untold Story of India’s Partition” after he came across documents in the Oriental and Indian Collection of the British Library, London, in 1997 which revealed that “the Partition of India may not have been totally unconnected with the British concern that the Great Game between them and the USSR for acquiring influence in the area lying between Turkey and India was likely to recommence with even greater gusto after the Second World War and the start of the Cold War. And to find military bases and partners for the same.” Sarila also researched other historical British and the US State Department’s archives for his book. Incidentally, while many records have been unsealed, some important ones have not. Significantly, most of Mountbatten’s official correspondence during the period after Independence with London is still sealed, and unlikely to be made public anytime soon. This further fuels the controversy that the British Government has something to conceal regarding Partition and the question of Kashmir.

Sarila’s thesis rests on the fact that for nearly a hundred years prior to Partition, the British had engaged in what came to be known as the ‘Great Game’ with tsarist Russia over influence in Trans Oxania and Central Asia. The British believed that the safety of their Indian empire and access to the oil fields in the Middle East lay in keeping the Russians at a distance beyond the Oxus river on the northern fringes of Afghanistan. British strategic interests demanded that they have access to and partners in the northwest of India even after India’s independence. Indeed, the start of the Cold War even before India’s independence made this even more imperative, and the USSR’s invasion of Afghanistan nearly 30 years after independence confirmed British fears.

Sarila faults the Congress Party for not understanding the larger geo-political compulsions of Britain and for pursuing naïve policies that were in many cases counterproductive, but reinforced the feeling with both the Churchill and Attlee governments in Britain that Partition of India was necessary to protect British interests. Sarila does give credit, where it is due, to the Congress nationalists for mobilizing the masses in India that eventually made British rule in India untenable.

Some of the examples of Congress’ missteps in the late 1930s and the early ‘40s were: (i) resigning from the provincial ministries in 1939 on the entry of India into WWII, and leaving the field open to Jinnah to assume the reins of government even though the Congress was sympathetic to the Allied cause (ii) launching Quit India movement in the middle of WWII when there were millions of Allied troops in India – the movement was quickly quashed with no effect, (iii) not agreeing to joining the British Commonwealth until almost the 11th hour thereby raising British insecurity, and (iv) not giving any assurance to the British that they would cooperate on diplomatic and military matters after Independence.

These led the British to believe that their strategic interests could not be safeguarded in an India led by the Congress party. The British had other compulsions too: a prudent approach would require not putting ‘all eggs in one basket’. They also believed (incorrectly as it turned out later) that India would not survive as a single state given its heterogeneity, whereas Muslim-Pakistan stood a better chance of being a united, strategic partner. Lastly, by 1947, most British politicians and bureaucrats had come to loathe the Congress Party and had become distrustful of Hindu politicians.

A mistake that the Congress Party made was to accept the Muslim League as part of the Interim Government without extracting a concession that the League also join the Constituent Assembly and stop any future ‘Direct Actions’. This enabled the League to play an obstructionist role in the Interim Government without facing any consequences.

According to Sarila, “Protected by British power for so long and then focused on a non-violent struggle, the Indian leaders were ill prepared, as independence dawned, to confront the power play in our predatory world…They had failed to see through the real British motivation for their support to the Pakistan scheme and take remedial measures. Nor did they understand that, at the end of the Raj, America wanted a free and united India to emerge and to find ways to work this powerful lever”.

Jinnah, by contrast, had a better understanding of British motivations and the growing American influence on British policy, and used this to greater effect. He cooperated better with the Allied war effort, did not embarrass the British government, and was rewarded by a British policy that nudged events towards Partition. An example is cited of Nehru’s sister, Vijayalaxmi Pandit, leading the charge in 1946 at the UN to pass a resolution critical of apartheid (South Africa was a close British ally at the time) with the support of the developing countries. This was at a time when India’s own fate was to be decided. This ‘diplomatic success’ won India little laurels, except confirmed the fears in the minds of the British about what might come to pass under a Congress-led India. By contrast, when the Communist Chinese finally gained recognition in the UN in 1972, their diplomats were ordered by Peking to stay quiet for several years, and they made no moves at the UN. Even today, Beijing rarely sponsors or vetoes UN resolutions, preferring to reach consensus in back-door deals in advance. There are numerous other examples to cite of Nehru’s naïveté in dealing with foreign affairs (too many to summarize in this review).

Jinnah, it is revealed, also had secret correspondence with Churchill during the war and thereafter. The details of this correspondence are not known, except that Jinnah sought his help in reigning in the Viceroys in Delhi and promised support to Britain after independence to make the case for Pakistan. Jinnah’s cooperation with the British dovetailed with their efforts to carve out a friendly sphere of influence in the North West. It is also possible that he received advice to be intransigent during negotiations with the Congress, because the reward would be his Pakistan. This he proceeded to do with great flourish, with tacit British support behind the scenes.

Field Marshall Wavell, Viceroy of India, 1943-47, and predecessor of Mountbatten concluded that India had to be partitioned to preserve British interests, and even drew maps (eerily similar to the Sir Cyrill Radcliff division of India) as early as 1946 that showed the desired boundary demarcation. Sarila writes, “While in London, Wavell, on 31 August 1945, called on Churchill. According to Wavell's account: 'He warned me that the anchor [himself] was now gone and I was on a lee shore with rash pilots...His final remark, as I closed the door of the lift was: "keep a bit of India."'. Churchill, no longer Prime Minister, believed that the Attlee government, then in power, having decided to grant India independence, was not in favor of Partition and would sacrifice British interests in their haste to grant freedom to India. Attlee, who served as Churchill’s deputy in the War Cabinet and the Defence Committee during the Second World War, was fully alive to British interests.

Indeed, under Attlee, Britain's position at this stage (August, 1945) could be summarized as follows:

1. The British military was emphatic on the value of retaining its base for defensive and offensive action against the USSR
2. Wavell was quite clear that this objective could not be achieved through partition - keeping a bit of India-because the Congress Party after independence would not cooperate with Britain on military and strategic matters;
3. While Labour leaders did not agree with Wavell that all was lost with the Congress Party, Attlee was, nonetheless, ready to support the division of India as long as the responsibility could not be attributed to Britain

Britain, then proceeded to assiduously implement this policy, through both the Churchill and Attlee governments. Mountbatten inherited this policy that Wavell had helped formulate. This policy necessitated that the corridor running from Baluchistan, Sind (for the port of Karachi), NWFP, northern Kashmir to Sinkiang be placed under a friendly regime. At the same time, Britain did not want to place any more territory than minimally necessary to serve their strategic interests.


The British had a few hurdles to overcome:

1. Jinnah had to be installed as the ‘sole spokesman’ of India’s Muslims, even though the Muslim League could muster only two governments in the five provinces of India that the League demanded to be part of Pakistan in the 1946 elections (Bengal and Sind – the latter being possible only through a tie-breaker vote cast by the British governor of Sind). Significantly, Muslim League could not form governments in Punjab (Unionists), NWFP (Congress), and Assam (Congress).
2. Jinnah had to be made to accept a truncated Pakistan with partitioned Punjab and Bengal
3. NWFP, which had a Congress ministry in 1946 and a 95% Muslim population, had to be made part of Pakistan
4. Congress Party had to be persuaded to join the British Commonwealth
5. The Americans, who favored a united India, had to be persuaded that the Partition was the only inevitable outcome given ‘Hindu-Muslim’ question
6. The blame for Partition had to rest with Indians, not the British


On each of the above issues, the British succeeded brilliantly. They continuously raised the smokescreen of protection of Muslim rights and gave Jinnah an effective veto on all proposals not acceptable to the League. The Cabinet Mission Plan was used successfully to persuade Indians (and world opinion) that the Partition was the only reasonable outcome. These helped Jinnah position himself as the ‘sole spokesman’. Jinnah was persuaded to accept a truncated Pakistan by Mountbatten who basically told Jinnah that if didn’t accept Partition, there would be no Pakistan. The Cabinet Mission Plan, by providing an alternative to Partition, also persuaded Jinnah to accept a smaller Pakistan. Nehru/Patel were tempted to swallow the bitter pill of losing NWFP by being promised a quick transfer of power. The Congress stabbed the Khudai Khidmatgars and Dr. Khan Sahib, Chief Minister, NWFP by agreeing to a unique referendum that was not implemented in any other British province, even though Congress already had the peoples’ mandate in 1946. Congress then boycotted the referendum, and the fate of NWFP was decided by a narrow margin of 50.28% of the electorate. Thus, NWFP was handed to Pakistan without a contest by the thinnest of margins. Had the Congress and the Khudai Khidtmgars (they boycotted for fear of violence by the Muslim League) contested the elections, NWFP may well have voted for India and Pakistan would have been stillborn. Congress agreed to join the Commonwealth after Mountbatten promised all his help in integrating the princely states in India. The British, to their credit, even as they assisted in the birth of Pakistan, ensured that what remained of India was consolidated by the accession of the princely states to it.

Mountbatten did India a huge service by taking independence as an option off the table from the princely states. They had only two choices: accede to India or to Pakistan. The Americans, even though did not want to see India balkanized and favored the emergence of a united India, were made to believe that Partition was the only option by the British. Once the Indian politicians had accepted Partition, the American voice for Indian unity was muted, and the blame for it passed on to Indians.

On Kashmir, the record is also quite clear: once the Pakistani raiders entered Kashmir, Mountbatten goaded Nehru to take the matter to the UN, where the British succeeded in closing military options for India and legitimizing the locus standi of Pakistan. In the open forum of the UN, the British could no longer conceal their bias for Gilgit and Baltistan to be joined with Pakistan as part of an essential corridor to Central Asia.

Sarila writes that the British ‘Pakistan Strategy’ succeeded brilliantly. Pakistan joined the Baghdad Pact and later, CENTO to form the defensive barrier again Soviet intentions in the Middle East, and went on to provide bases to the US for U-2 overflights. Later Pakistan provided the US access to China to pressurize the Soviets and provided a base against the Soviets in the Afghan war.

Sarila asks, “would the 1962 Sino-India clash have occurred had India remained united? Would the Indian subcontinent have been nuclearized in the 20th century but for Partition? Would the communal virus have spread throughout Pakistan and India in recent years, but for Partition? The genie of Islamist terrorism centered around Pakistan has made British policies come full circle. Some of the roots for its emergence lay in Partition. Would undivided India have been able to absorb 500 millions Muslims today in its midst?

Sarila concludes by saying that, ‘the awareness that it was global politics, Britain’s insecurity and the errors of judgment of Indian leaders that resulted in Partition of India might help India and Pakistan in search for reconciliation.’
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Dilbu »

Musharraf: U.S., Pakistan 'suddenly' lost track of bin Laden
SIOUX FALLS, S.D — The United States and Pakistan were closing in on Osama bin Laden about five years ago, but suddenly lost the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, former Pakistan leader Pervez Musharraf said Friday.
"I don't know whether he's dead or alive," Musharraf told a near-capacity crowd at the Elmen Center at Augustana College.

"It was some five years back when there was some intelligence that got picked up of a broad location," he said. "Then suddenly, we lost track."
The comments were in response to a question from a student during the final portion of Friday night's Boe Forum, which has hosted several world leaders over the years.

"It was a failure of Pakistan and a failure of U.S. intelligence also," he said of the search for bin Laden.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Dilbu »

Did Hakeemullah get his 72?
US Officials Believe Pakistani Taliban Leader Dead
U.S. intelligence agencies say they believe Pakistani Taliban leader Hakimullah Mehsud died in a firefight with a rival faction weeks ago.

U.S. authorities are in the process of reviewing their information before they can definitively say Hakimullah Mehsud is dead.

So far, there has not been any evidence to confirm Mehsud's death.

But the recent U.S. comments confirm what Pakistani officials said weeks ago, that they believe Mehsud died during Taliban infighting following the death of former group leader Baitullah Mehsud.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Nandu »

SSridhar wrote:US should not do a Sabra or a Shatila like action on Quetta
Pakistan cannot do a Sabra-Shatila in Quetta, warns Dr Maleeha Lodhi, the former Pakistani envoy to the US and Britain.

“If we tried, for example, to do a Sabra and a Shatila in one of the camps in Quetta, you can imagine what the outcry will be from within Pakistan, much less the international community,” she told the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations.
"We"? When did Maleeha become American?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by Satya_anveshi »

I think something seriously cooking in Pakjab where the Sharifs are postponing the elections for one reason or the other. Apparently the current reason is that jihadis are out to get Sharifs (which is laughable given that they are the biggest bunch of jihadis). This is p!ssing a lot of people the wrong way. Now the case is in court.

It is to be noted that earlier PML-N objected the PPP demand of postpone and Sharifs vehemently objected and that eventually resulted in BB's murder. Let's see if jihadis will succeed or not.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by a_kumar »

Satya_anveshi wrote: Following possible explainations:
[*]Provides ability to gain and influence NoKo, which has developed relationship with Pakistan. This can be easily established/proved if we see historical relationship of Pakistan with Japan. IMO, providing NOKO with nuke capability creates an existential threat to Japan and it should trump any indirect/limited influence Pakistan can have on NOKO. In contrast, remember the ruckus they made in 1998. There was a slight course correction, but where is half the outrage with respect to Pakistan?

[*]Japan tries its best to be considered as "west"
This is the most plausible, but still didn't think this could be it

[*]US leverage on Japan makes it to do
I am not sure. US-Japan thing is not one sided. Economy wise, Japan has a considerable advantage in trade, infact to some extent, it used to be what China is right now to US. So the leverage is limited

[*]simply to snub India and gain leverage knowing India wont retaliate (if so, we need to show it them once and fix this)I will partially agree with the snub part, as an extension of no2 above. Japan does have a superior air towards the quote "third-world" country.
All the above is still circumstantial I think.

Consider that Pakistan gave NOKO nukes.
In a decade, China can get away with lot of mischief against Japan, if US Carriers shy away from East Asian coasts. In more decades, it can even make Japan its bitch. Atleast India has got geography to its advantage (Himalayas and IOR). Japan is naked that way.

I would think Japan would start building some bridges with India, just to increase its chances than for anything else. But something else trumps the above points and makes them cozy in the gang of US-China-Pakistan. Japan's Pak-lovefest is not even reactive or hesitant, its pretty proactive and aggressive like its life depends on it. Japan goes ahead and hosts "Friends of Pakistan" :roll:and it has no common border, limited economic relations, no need to access CAR, no interest in Afghanistan

It just doesn't make sense.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by pgbhat »

Grabbing land ---- Shahdana Minhas.
The dailies have lately been strangely mum on the ongoing negotiations between local decision-makers and Gulf-based investors interested in a local land-grab. The euphemism for this land-grab--in which over half-a-million acres of arable land across our four provinces would be "granted" to a foreign government for cultivation to offset its own inevitable food shortages -- is "agricultural joint venture." At least that is what they have been calling it when wealthy rapacious states have snapped up land in countries like Madagascar, Sudan, Burma, Cameroon, Laos, Mozambique and Uganda in recent years. Clearly we are in august (familiar) company, with the other usual (vulnerable) suspects from the bottom of assorted development indices.

Here is how some have observed it tends to work: the bait of 'agricultural development' is dangled before a struggling economy. It is swallowed, whole, by the decision making over class under the pretext of long-term investment; there might be a greasing of palms, or the promise of collusion with the powerful might be sufficiently seductive. Contracts signed lean heavily in favour of the foreign investor, with nearly all projected produce intended for export back to the country funding its growth. Additional infrastructure development, often touted as a USP to the local populace, concentrates only on power generation, irrigation, transport and storage facilities required to ensure a smooth flow of the produce from the point of origin to its intended market. The promised transfer of technology and skills is hamstrung by the import and placement of expatriate management and technical staff. The only involvement of locals tends to be as manual farm workers who, if that, are paid at little above the going market rate and also denied means and opportunity to unionise. In return, the parasitic foreign investors reap profits, ensure a ready supply of valuable goods at subsidised rates and accumulate increased political clout in the host economy. If this sounds familiar to any of you, it is because it is reminiscent of what the Dutch East India Company used to do.

<SNIP>

There is also our own food security to consider. Now we know our government functionaries are moved enough by the impending plight of their brothers and sisters in other parts of the globe to offer them patches of our own backyard for the food they might soon face a shortage of. But what can they tell us about their plans to make sure our own people don't starve to death once water dries up and global warming really raises the temperature? What? That happens already and we've built up immunity to it and so don't really give a crap? Ok, then, onwards to other important things, though if we all gave a crap we could probably package it and export it as fertiliser for profit to a country that, in terms of sustainable development, is even worse off than we are. Like… er… never mind.

<SNIP>

Culture imperilled might seem out of place in this context, but here is a thought. A significant percentage of the manual labour force on arable land in Pakistan is female. Women tend crops, drive livestock, walk though fields in garishly coloured clothes while humming folk ditties. (In the movies anyway, considering recent trends in violence against women they probably now walk softly and carry a big stick.) If we lease this land to Saudi Arabia -- a country where women are not allowed to drive cars, vote, work in public places with a namehram -- to do with as it pleases -- will there still, across the proposed acreage reportedly twice the size of Hong Kong, be room for them?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Post by asprinzl »

Nandu,
I think it is widespread practise among diplomats posted at the UN, Western Europe and in consulates and embassies across the US to acquire Green Card or American citizenship. Currently in circle of people that I hang out I know of three individuals whose diplomatic families from India that acquired either greencard or citizenship, two others from Pakistan and another from Bangladesh. Spoilts brats all of them.
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