Afghanistan News & Discussion

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Pranav
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Pranav »

Rudradev wrote: The ISI doesn't expect to be doing business with or co-opting Abdullah... they will welcome a Tajik as the ISAF Coalition-Backed Candidate only because it will bring all the Pashtuns completely on to their side, weakening the Kabul government to their advantage. The Taliban will then become the natural repository of Pashtun nationalist aspirations, gaining full support from the Pashtun people of southern Afghanistan against the Americans and their Tajik figurehead.
I do not think the Afghan Pushtuns will so easily support a Pak backed candidate. There is great anger with Pakistan amongst the Afghans, even amongst the Pashtun Afghans. If a person of mixed Pashtun-Tajik heritage such as Abdullah were to provide good governance, the Pushtuns would be sensible enough to support him, IMHO.

The greater danger, at present, is of Karzai being forced to take in Taliban elements into the government under some kind of West-backed deal.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Sanjay M »

I knew this would happen:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01894.html
White House officials are resisting McChrystal's call for urgent U.S. action on Afghanistan, which he underscored Thursday during a speech in London. Officials also are questioning important elements of the general's assessment, which calls for a vast expansion of an increasingly unpopular war. One senior administration official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss the meeting, said, "A lot of assumptions -- and I don't want to say myths, but a lot of assumptions -- were exposed to the light of day."

Among them, according to three senior administration officials who attended Wednesday's meeting at the White House, is McChrystal's contention that the Taliban and al-Qaeda share the same strategic interests and that the return to power of the Taliban would automatically mean a new sanctuary for al-Qaeda.
I've told you that the Atlanticist lobbies are maneuvering to have Taliban rehabilitated. They are claiming that Taliban can be allowed to come back, and that they can be dealt with, because they are ideologically different from AlQaeda.

When movies like "Road to 9/11" came out, showing how the US Democrats were at fault for allowing the Taliban/AlQaeda menace to get out of control, the Democrats were immediately furious and indignant, insisting that they were the ones who were most aggressive against terrorism while Bush was a terrorist-appeaser.

But you can see that once again, left to their own devices, the US Democrat Whitehouse and their Atlanticist coterie will rush to accommodate Islamist terrorists like Taliban, allowing them to return to power. You can see the arguments for this being constructed gradually, and being laid into place.


Mark my words - once the Taliban return to power, and the Afghan civil war resumes, then the Taliban will quickly take help from AlQaeda to fight the civil war. And AlQaeda will be more than willing to offer itself up for this purpose, because when they say "The Base", they know that only Afghanistan can be that base.

But AlQaeda has now smelled greater opportunity in going after Pakistan's nuclear weapons.
Apparently, they weren't smart enough to go after the Pakistani state during the previous round of Afghan civil war that occurred prior to 9/11. It's only now in the wake of Pak-US "alliance" in the war against Taliban, that the jihadis have decided to target the Pak state, with the eventual hope of overthrowing it and acquiring its nukes.

So once the Taliban come back to power again, a wiser AlQaeda might see its best opportunity in continuing the drive to go after Pakistan's nuclear weapons. There will be more Baitullah Mehsuds being supported, and more Swat Valleys.

The Americans are like Prithvi Rai Chauhan (and so are we, obviously). They keep pulling back from finishing off the jihadis, thus allowing the jihadis to learn and improve themselves for the next round of conflict. Jihadi Darwinism. It's therefore only a matter of time before the jihadis win.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by muraliravi »

Sanjay,

If that happens, we are living in interesting times. The closer they get to the nukes, the more the fun. I strongly believe, they will never get the nukes, but as you said, very soon they will be within reaching distance from the nukes. There will be at least 4-5 different scenarios that will play out once that happens. In my opinion, bottom line is they cant win. The closer they get to the nukes, the faster they will be destroyed along with millions in their jihadi homeland who happens to be our very infamous neighbour.

History repeats itself, Mahabharath is true after all. The catch here is that when that scenario comes up, even the leftists will call a spade a spade.

Murali
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by CRamS »

Pranav:

You are completely missing the point. Nobody is perfect. If the west wants to nit-pick on who their puppet should be, even our own 'saintly' MMS can be scapegoated. The point is that Karzai may be inefficient, corrupt; who is not in that part of the world? USA's munnas in TSP are the model democrats? Give me a break. Don't take US protestations seriously. Karzai is being targeted because he is not going along with US plan to prop up TSP. He points out correctly, that all this bogus Afghan Taliban, TSP Taliban aside, the real answer to peace in Afganisthan is to castrate the generals in Pindi.

As an aside, the other night I was chatting with a check out clerk in my neighborhood WalGreens. His name was Hamid, and spoke to me in Urdu; I thought he was a Paki, but he told me he is an Afghan. In an informal conversation, be burst into laughter on the mere mention of US charactrizing the situation in his country. He is not the biggest fan of Karzai, but he reinforces what we know, namely, it is TSP that needs to be dealt with a death blow. It was so heart warming and a feeling of pride in the manner in which he distuinguished Indian efforts in Afganisthan with those of TSP. The very fact that USA twists benign Indian efforts 180 degrees to suit their munna's objectives tells you the fraud with with which the suprpower acts to preserve what it deems as its national interests. As much as I detest and embarassed by Bollywood junk (except of course the beautiful actresses in their colorful attire and song and dance :-)), I am told Bollywood junk is very popular among Afghans, even more so than Hollywood tripe. This might be another sore point for USA :-).
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Ankit Desai »

Pakistan fears India's rise in Afghanistan: US official
"I am not making any accusations against any given country in the region. All of them are looking out for their vital interests. But India is becoming involved in Afghanistan to an extent that the Pakistanis consider Afghanistan as developing into an Indian garrison,"
Milt Bearden, ex-Central Intelligence Agency Station Chief in Islamabad told Senators during a hearing.

Ankit
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by CRamS »

Ankit Desai wrote:Pakistan fears India's rise in Afghanistan: US official
"I am not making any accusations against any given country in the region. All of them are looking out for their vital interests. But India is becoming involved in Afghanistan to an extent that the Pakistanis consider Afghanistan as developing into an Indian garrison,"
Milt Bearden, ex-Central Intelligence Agency Station Chief in Islamabad told Senators during a hearing.

Ankit
This needs to be countered forcefully by Indian diplomats, or else the simple falshood TSP and USA are spreading will spread like wildfire and become gospel truth.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by surinder »

If India is ejected out or curtailed in A'stan, it should stop *ALL* aid (amounting to billions of dollars), and pull out *ALL* people out. (India has substantial # of people doing aid activities there. I met a Sardar in India recently who has beeing doing health-related aid work in A'stan for many years now.)

Not only that, it must advertise & let the Afhgaans know that India was kicked out to bring TSP in by Amirkhans. Let that be the -ive publicity. In the mean time, keep the powder dry, I mean keep links with Northern Alliance active.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Pranav wrote:
Rudradev wrote: The ISI doesn't expect to be doing business with or co-opting Abdullah... they will welcome a Tajik as the ISAF Coalition-Backed Candidate only because it will bring all the Pashtuns completely on to their side, weakening the Kabul government to their advantage. The Taliban will then become the natural repository of Pashtun nationalist aspirations, gaining full support from the Pashtun people of southern Afghanistan against the Americans and their Tajik figurehead.
I do not think the Afghan Pushtuns will so easily support a Pak backed candidate. There is great anger with Pakistan amongst the Afghans, even amongst the Pashtun Afghans. If a person of mixed Pashtun-Tajik heritage such as Abdullah were to provide good governance, the Pushtuns would be sensible enough to support him, IMHO.

The greater danger, at present, is of Karzai being forced to take in Taliban elements into the government under some kind of West-backed deal.
When the choice is a Pashtun vs a mixed origin person, they will support the Pashtun. That is Pashtunwa the tribal code of conduct. Let Pashtun tribal society evlove then they might give good governance and all that a chance. And it wont happen in the course you advocate.

Reading suggestion:
Olaf Caroe: The Pashtuns.

Rudradev can you summarize your two posts as an op-ed.?

thanks, ramana
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Sanjay M »

muraliravi wrote:Sanjay,

If that happens, we are living in interesting times. The closer they get to the nukes, the more the fun. I strongly believe, they will never get the nukes, but as you said, very soon they will be within reaching distance from the nukes. There will be at least 4-5 different scenarios that will play out once that happens. In my opinion, bottom line is they cant win. The closer they get to the nukes, the faster they will be destroyed along with millions in their jihadi homeland who happens to be our very infamous neighbour.

History repeats itself, Mahabharath is true after all. The catch here is that when that scenario comes up, even the leftists will call a spade a spade.

Murali

You can see that the Atlanticists get shrill when their interests are at stake. Look at the reaction to Iran's nearing nuclearization -- you can see all types of shrill calls appearing in the NYT and other Atlanticist publications, about how Iran's nuclear capability is much exaggerated, and how it will be many years before Iran can produce its first bomb. Meanwhile, the Brzezinski types are directly taking aim at the Israel lobby, labeling them as obstructionists, narrow special interests, extraterritorialists (as if the Atlanticists themselves aren't all of these things!)

This is all occurring because the Atlanticists have staked their future on a strong Islamic bloc, which they see as vital to their security. They see Islam as the only serious challenger to the Russian bear whom they fear most.

Therefore likewise, in the case of Pakistan and imminent encroachment of the jihadis into its nuclear domain, the Atlanticists are again aggressively arguing that there is no need to worry about Pak nukes falling into jihadi hands. They also aggressively downplay the proliferation antics of the Pakistani state, despite their undeniably destabilizing impact on the nuclearization of multiple rogue regimes. Instead, the Atlanticists will spare no effort to heap blame onto India at every turn.

So even when the jihadis start coming perilously close to seizing Pak nukes, the Atlanticists will certainly keep screaming that such fears are overblown, and this will result in the inevitable tumultuous confrontation that occurs when reality overtakes rhetoric, causing the latter to crumble suddenly and catastrophically. The 1979 Iranian Revolution was one such example of naive perceptions being derailed by the oncoming locomotive of reality. Ironically, it was the Israelis who then had to bear the fallout from this, rather than the Atlanticists themselves -- ironic, but unsurprising, since the Atlanticists pursue their own ethnic agenda at the expense of certain other ethnic groups (such as ourselves). No small coincidence that Brzezinski was the National Security Advisor under Carter, when the Iranian Revolution blew up in their faces.

The same situation would replay itself in the case of imminent jihadi seizure of Pak nukes.
I'm thinking that Pakistan would turn a non-functional "abdicating" state, to quote Hillary, thus handing victory to the jihadis by default, while the US watched powerlessly.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Airavat »

Gus wrote:Milton Bearden was CIA station chief of Islamaintbad during the heights of CIA-ISI run Afghan jihad. He has consistently pushed, mouthed, defended etc...Pakistani interests....... Bearden has a lot of blood, Afghan and Indian, on his hands. A few years back, after his retirement, in a televised war game, he moved for nuking advancing Indian troops in Pakistan.
Thanks for the info. Bearden really is a pseudo-jihadi.

Afghanistan Focus of Senate Foreign Relations

John Kerry agreed with Bearden that al Qaeda isn't in Afghanistan anymore, but questioned if the United States has achieved its goal. He said the United States might want to keep a presence in Afghanistan in order to keep al Qaeda at bay.

Here again, Bearden appeared to have no worries. "I don't see all those planets lining up again ever," he said. Former Pakistani ambassador Lodhi agreed. "Al Qaeda exists more as an idea today," Lodhi said in a slightly British accent.

"There is no possible way for the United States to supply enough troops to pacify the situation," Bearden said. He estimated that roughly 500,000 troops would be needed to pacify the region, something he said could only be done with a draft.

New Hampshire Democrat Jeanne Shaheen questioned Bearden's earlier suggestion that the United States should not give militants a reason to fight. She said the militants have often brought it on themselves, noting that they abuse girls who go to school, inciting the military to provide security, and then the process escalates. Bearden responded by calling the girls' schools "a nice thought" but said they have been "a lightning rod" for conflict, and questioned whether the United States should be imposing its social ideals on the Afghan culture.

Wow! A real jihadi this ex-CIA clown has become. Crafty old fart will never acknowledge that girls' schools functioned under the Northern Alliance of Ahmad Shah Massoud, and their closure in other parts of Afghanistan was done by the alien creed of the Taliban and the Pakistan Army:
Ambassador Farhadi told CNN: "The Taliban has implemented what they call their version of Islam. They have closed all girls' schools. They have forbidden all women's education. They have imposed total seclusion on Afghanistan's women. They are against all signs of civilization -- no TV, no music -- this is bringing Afghanistan to the Middle Ages."
The Murder of Commander Ahmad Shah Massoud
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Rudradev »

ramana wrote: Rudradev can you summarize your two posts as an op-ed.?

thanks, ramana
Sure: for publication where? With what audience in mind? And how many words?

Please let me know.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Pranav »

CRamS wrote:Pranav:

You are completely missing the point.
....
Karzai is being targeted because he is not going along with US plan to prop up TSP.
Ok, let us try to clarify the points we have so far.

1. What is the objective? Prevention of Jihadi takeover in Afghanistan.


2. What are the possible modes of this happening?

(A) Karzai wins and is forced by the West to accept Taliban presence in his government.

(B) Abdullah wins and loses all Pushtun support to a Pak-backed entity.


3. What are the data points so far:

(A) Indications of massive fraud in the elections.

(B) UN support for this fraud.

(C) White house reluctance to back military commanders' demand for a surge to control the Taliban.

(D) Western governments accepting Karzai's victory despite the fraud.

(E) Karzai's statements saying that he wants a settlement with the Taliban.

(F) Strong antipathy against the Taliban from Abdullah camp.

(G) Statements from the US that it is OK for the Taliban to be given power in Afghanistan, that Taliban is not equal to Al Qaeda.

(H) General disillusionment with Karzai, even amongst the Pashtuns.

(I) Anger against Pak, even amongst Pashtuns.

(J) Karzai's friendliness towards India so far (although Abdullah will also be at least as friendly).

(K) Known ingrained western tendencies to prop up Pak for fulfilling its anti-India mission.

Now, join these data points using Occam's razor.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Sanjay M »

When I join the points, I see the Atlanticist lobby working at cross-purposes with US interests in Afghanistan, working to overturn previously established national security goals by shifting the goalposts.

This isn't about an anti-India mission, but rather about keeping the Taliban assets alive to fight Russia again down the road.
India is just getting the collateral damage, that's all.

The thing is - will the US support for the corrupt Karzai, even in a power-sharing with Taliban, be enough to see AlQaeda expelled from the country? As we know, the more hardline Haqqani types will never abandon Osama, while the "moderate" Taliban are indifferent at best.

It seems to me that the US will soon suffer a Soviet-style military withdrawal from Afghanistan in humiliation, and the Afghans will again be able to crow that they have beaten the mightiest power of the day.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Pranav »

Sanjay M wrote:When I join the points, I see the Atlanticist lobby working at cross-purposes with US interests in Afghanistan, working to overturn previously established national security goals by shifting the goalposts.
Some powerful elements in the West have never been sincere regarding Afghanistan, as is shown by the chronic shortage of resources and attention for Afghanistan.

However, that may change if they decide that Pakistan and its nukes have become a greater threat. We can wait to see how the debate plays out.
Sanjay M wrote: This isn't about an anti-India mission, but rather about keeping the Taliban assets alive to fight Russia again down the road.
India is just getting the collateral damage, that's all.
Why was Pakistan's quest for nukes actively supported by the West.
Deception: Pakistan, the United States and the Global Nuclear Weapons Conspiracy by Adrian Levy and Catherine Scott-Clark
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 368174.ece
Behind this desperately worrying state of affairs lies a grand deception. For three decades, consecutive US administrations, Republican and Democrat, as well as governments in Britain and other European countries, allowed Pakistan to acquire highly restricted nuclear technology. Key US agencies were then misdirected and countermanded in order to disguise how Pakistan had sold it on.

Intelligence gathering in the US was blunted while the departments of state and defence were corralled into backing the White House agenda and forced to side-step Congress and break federal laws. Officials who tried to stop the charade were purged.
Was this kind of support needed so that Pakistan could be a conduit against the Soviets in Afghanistan? And what about the contemporaneous tacit support to the Khalistanis? IMHO, this was more about India rather than Russia.
Sanjay M wrote: It seems to me that the US will soon suffer a Soviet-style military withdrawal from Afghanistan in humiliation, and the Afghans will again be able to crow that they have beaten the mightiest power of the day.
Afghans hate the Taliban. It's the Paks who will be doing the crowing.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Sanjay M »

Pranav wrote:The West has never been sincere regarding Afghanistan, as is shown by the chronic shortage of resources and attention for Afghanistan.

However, that may change if they decide that Pakistan and its nukes have become a greater threat. We can wait to see how the debate plays out.
The Americans think they have Pak under control for now, with AQ Khan being the fall-guy, and Pak Army having crushed the various PakTalib offensives that came down near their main cities.
Why was Pakistan's quest for nukes supported aby the West. IMHO, this is more about India rather than Russia.
Well, they wanted to win the Afghan War against the Soviets at all costs. We're now seeing those costs in the proliferation realm much later, of course.

They understand that the side-effect of their propping up Pak against Russia is that it antagonizes India and drives up tensions on the subcontinent. But they're willing to accept that, because they think that we're the kind of suckers who'll absorb more punishment from Pak without raising much fuss. We should show them otherwise.
Afghans hate the Taliban. It's the Paks who will be doing the crowing.
Fair enuf - the Paks have mostly appointed themselves spokesmen for all those under their domination, speaking on their behalf.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Sanjay M »

Again, the Atlanticist NYT questions whether the US has to achieve victory in Afghanistan:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/04/weeki ... traub.html
George Kennan was right about the cold war. But the question now is whether “containment” is also the right metaphor for Afghanistan, and for the threat of Islamic extremism. Containment (Mr. Kennan also used the imagery of chess and the pruning and pinning of trees) is a metaphor of geographical contiguity. Soviet ambitions could be checked here, conceded there. America’s adversary was not, Mr. Kennan insisted, a global force called Communism; it was Russia, an expansionist but conservative power. By that logic, the United States could lose in Vietnam with no lasting harm to itself.

But Al Qaeda, and jihadism generally, is a global force that seeks control of territory chiefly as a means to carry out its global strategy. It has no borders at which to be checked; its success or failure is measured in ideological rather than territorial terms — like Communism without Russia. Mr. Kennan often suggested that America’s own example of democratic prosperity was one of its most powerful weapons during the cold war; and plainly that is so today as well. That is one weapon with which the threat of Islamic extremism must be challenged; but it is only one.

The question boils down to this: How grave a price would Americans pay if Afghanistan were lost to the Taliban? Would this be a disaster, or merely, as with Vietnam, a terrible misfortune for which the United States could compensate through a contemporary version of Mr. Kennan’s “intelligent long-range policies”? If the latter, then how can Americans justify the immense cost in money and manpower, and the inevitable loss of life, attendant upon General McChrystal’s plan? How can they gamble so much on the corrupt, enfeebled and barely legitimate government of President Karzai? Why insist on seeking to do that which in all probability can not be done?
What idiots - how grave a price did America pay when the Taliban originally took power and helped AlQaeda launch the 9/11 attacks? As it the question needs to even be asked. :roll:
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by CRamS »

Pranav:

If I connect the dots, and factor in the only immutable facet of US empire's motives: econpmic/politicval primacy of itself and those of its western lackeys, here is how I see it:

1) During the Soviet occupation of Afganisthan, when Bin Ladin & Co were USA's best buddies, as was TSPA/ISI, the US just looked the other way, perhaps even faciliated Chincom nukes to TSP. Not much of a conspracy there; just hard core real-politick.

2) Once India tested in 1998 (which some say was a thussss pataki), and true to form, TSP responded with Chincom maal painted green, US sensed an opportunity. And this is where the conspiracy starts.

3) Without TSP nukes and its blackmail as a counterweight to India, USA's nuclear caste hierarchy that seeks to deny India nukes, gets a bit complicated. But TSP's meglomaniac terror and nuke blackmail aginst India serves to create this 'nuclear flashpoint' bogey, and puts India on the defensive. And add to that "Kashmir dispute", WKKs and assorted scum like Sandeep Pandey singing their tune of nuke free 'South Asia', Paki nukes serve the purpose of castrating India. Thats the conspiracy.

4) If not for the India factor, just look at TSP: it is the hot bed of Islamic terrorism. It has proliferated nukes with impunity. It is a military dictatorship for the most part. You think there is not enough ammuniton there for US to make the case through its mouthpiece media that TSP must be rendered nuke nude? Of course, if the so called 'free media' were really 'free', they should be asking these tough questions. But you see, the media is only so free to talk about Billy "BJ" Clinton's semen on Monica's skirt, more substantive freedom needs to be frst vetted by pentagon & state dept to determine if it is in US empire's interests.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by arun »

X Posted.

US Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on “Afghanistan’s impact on Pakistan”

Testimony of Dr. Maleeha Lodhi, Milton Bearden and Steve Coll:

Afghanistan’s impact on Pakistan
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by pgbhat »

A Voice Worth Heeding on Afghanistan ---- By ALBERT R. HUNT
Mr. Brzezinski’s views deserve attention. Few policy makers have studied Afghanistan as long; he was President Jimmy Carter’s national security adviser during the Soviet invasion of 1979. He has Mr. Obama’s interests at heart — he was a prominent supporter during the presidential campaign — and is the most respected Democratic geopolitical thinker outside the administration.
“General McChrystal’s recommendation makes sense in a narrow military framework; he has been given a particular task, to defeat the counterinsurgency,” Mr. Brzezinski says.

“But suppose the counterinsurgency becomes a bigger insurgency,” he goes on. “This is why I’ve been saying let’s not do what the Russians did.”

In short, let’s not get into the nation-building business. “We’ve had some sort of a notion that we build a modern society, democracy, with the help of Western-type Afghans.”
“Our biggest mistake was in 1989,” he says. “The Taliban arose not because of what we did in Afghanistan to help defeat the Soviets. They arose because of what we did not do in Afghanistan, which was to continue helping after the Soviets were driven out.” Looking at these Afghanistan bookends, he says Mr. Obama should “draw those two lessons together.”

“We have to stay in Afghanistan politically and economically,” he says, “but at the same time we must not make the war against the Taliban our central preoccupation, thereby giving them the opportunity to label us the way the Soviets became labeled, as enemies of Afghans.”


The Brzezinski view seems strikingly similar to the perspective of another surprising source, the Pakistani intelligence agency. America has long been suspicious of the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate, which has been infiltrated by Islamic fundamentalists. Now, the Obama administration believes that after the Taliban’s march toward Islamabad, there may be a genuine awakening on the terrorism threat in the I.S.I., which had previously been focused almost exclusively on countering India.
While opposing a wide-scale escalation, and deeper U.S. involvement, Mr. Brzezinski says “some troop increases may be necessary maybe to hold Kandahar, maybe to hold the main cities in general. But beyond that, where is this sort of dawn in sight in a period of some darkness? I do not see that yet.”
Mr. Brzezinski responds that Mr. Karzai may not be a bargain but that to cut him off would be a flawed approach. “If someone says to me, ‘Dump Karzai,’ my question always is, ‘Who do you replace him with?”’ he says. “We do not ostentatiously pick and dump rulers.”
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by CRamS »

As much as I hate to admit it, but on paper, India is supposed to be the dominant regional power, and an impending 'global supoer power', but the simple truth of the matter is that should US leave Af-Pak, the Paki dogs, with all their weaponry at their disposal, will be at their vintage best: terrorizing India with impunity. At least with US presence, TSP behavior will be calibrated. Such a no war, no peace scenario suits India just fine. But then again, if TSP feels the heat of US presence in Af-Pak, they sure will up the ante against India as they did on 26/11. So India has to be vigilent of this possibility. But on balance, I say US presence in Af-Pak taking on the Isalmic scum can only benefit India, however miniscule.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by AjitK »

India powers Kabul

Amid all the political wrangling over the presidential elections in Afghanistan and sharp differences over the military campaign among major countries, India quietly crossed an important milestone in its diplomatic efforts as it successfully completed a four-year effort to build a 202-km transmission line to bring electricity to power-starved Kabul.

Until this, the city was running on a single gas turbine and some 25 heavy duty diesel generators for which the US was providing over $100 million of fuel. Kabul had long power cuts and matters became worse during winter. With the recent launch of the transmission line and the Chimtala sub-station near Kabul, there has been a dramatic change.

The Chimtala sub-station today distributes 90-120 MW, which is enough for Kabul. While distribution needs to be streamlined to reach each household, there is now excess power and the Afghanistan government wants India to help start an industrial estate near Kabul. This may be the next big project for India because it has already funded a well-equipped tool room for skill training.

Bringing electricity to Kabul was a project which started after a power-purchase agreement was finalised between Afghanistan and Uzbekistan. A 462-km transmission line had to be built from the Uzbek border to Kabul of which the last part of 202 km from Pul-e-Khumri near the Salang pass on the Hindu Kush was to be constructed by India’s Power Grid Corporation.

Much of this fell in the “snow zone” at heights reaching up to 3,800 m. As many as 613 towers have been erected, and these were designed in India to withstand inclement weather. Pakistan refused the use of its territory for transporting these towers which then had to be sent via Iran. Also, heavy turbine equipment was moved in what was among the largest airlift operations to Kabul.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by CRamS »

Tanmay K wrote:India powers Kabul

Amid all the political wrangling over the presidential elections in Afghanistan and sharp differences over the military campaign among major countries, India quietly crossed an important milestone in its diplomatic efforts as it successfully completed a four-year effort to build a 202-km transmission line to bring electricity to power-starved Kabul.

Until this, the city was running on a single gas turbine and some 25 heavy duty diesel generators for which the US was providing over $100 million of fuel. Kabul had long power cuts and matters became worse during winter. With the recent launch of the transmission line and the Chimtala sub-station near Kabul, there has been a dramatic change.

The Chimtala sub-station today distributes 90-120 MW, which is enough for Kabul. While distribution needs to be streamlined to reach each household, there is now excess power and the Afghanistan government wants India to help start an industrial estate near Kabul. This may be the next big project for India because it has already funded a well-equipped tool room for skill training.

Bringing electricity to Kabul was a project which started after a power-purchase agreement was finalised between Afghanistan and Uzbekistan. A 462-km transmission line had to be built from the Uzbek border to Kabul of which the last part of 202 km from Pul-e-Khumri near the Salang pass on the Hindu Kush was to be constructed by India’s Power Grid Corporation.

Much of this fell in the “snow zone” at heights reaching up to 3,800 m. As many as 613 towers have been erected, and these were designed in India to withstand inclement weather. Pakistan refused the use of its territory for transporting these towers which then had to be sent via Iran. Also, heavy turbine equipment was moved in what was among the largest airlift operations to Kabul.
But according to the senate foregn relations committee, 150-star general Stanley McCrystal, demi God general David Petraus, Honcho Holbrooke, Obama, Hilary, and of course not to mention, NYT/WP/NPR/CNN/BBC/FOX...; oh & did I forget Sarkozi, Brown, Merkel; and above all, madam Maleeha Lodi, shudh angrezi speaking, suave frontal spokesman for TSPA/ISI/Taliban/LeT/Jaish; according to all these worthies, this exacarbates regional tensions between India & TSP, and Kashmir must be resolved for peace in Afganisthan.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by CRamS »

Can such a brazen attack against a super power army with breathtaking firepower take place without massive logistical and intelligence support of the TSPA/ISI? I remember a few years back, LeT Cadres would storm Indian army posts in J&K and gun down our officers and jawans with impunity. At that time, I used to think our army were just sitting ducks, now its clear that TSPA/ISI have mastered the art of insurgency tactics, which ironically, they picked up from US itself :-).
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Sanjay M »

And that outpost was due to be abandoned anyway, as part of MacChrystal's change in strategy for the war:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/1004/p02s07-usmi.html

If the US abandons the countryside to head for the population centres, then this will amount to handing control of the countryside over to Taliban, who will then operate freely and eventually encircle major population centres to cut them off. This would be reminiscent of the
Soviet behavior pattern during the waning days of war leading to their withdrawal.


The Pakistanis are saying, "don't worry, nothing of the sort will happen - trust us"

Obama's Atlanticist coterie will whisper into his ear, "trust the Pakistanis, they know these areas"


Eventually, rural warfare would give way to urban warfare. Remember even how the Vietcong eventually came in from the countryside, and launched attacks in the main cities. Same with Mao's guerrillas, or Tito's, etc.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Pranav »

ramana wrote:
When the choice is a Pashtun vs a mixed origin person, they will support the Pashtun. That is Pashtunwa the tribal code of conduct. Let Pashtun tribal society evlove then they might give good governance and all that a chance. And it wont happen in the course you advocate.

Reading suggestion:
Olaf Caroe: The Pashtuns.
thanks, ramana
One should be wary of motivated mythology-building exercises by Westerners. Like the "Martial Races" theory. Regarding Caroe:
Caroe was attracted to Jinnah’s theory
of two nations and to his plan to Partition
the subcontinent into a Muslim Pakistan
and a Hindu India. Like Kipling before
him, Caroe was attracted to Muslim char-
acter and culture and sympathised with
Mohammed Ali Jinnah’s call for a Muslim
state on the subcontinent. A Jinnah-led
Pakistan would be a more suitable vehicle
to help secure the “wells of power”.

Source: Making US Foreign Policy for South Asia: Off-shore Balancing in Historical Perspective: http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_ ... 0429-1.php
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Pranav »

Sanjay M wrote:And that outpost was due to be abandoned anyway, as part of MacChrystal's change in strategy for the war:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/1004/p02s07-usmi.html

If the US abandons the countryside to head for the population centres, then this will amount to handing control of the countryside over to Taliban, who will then operate freely and eventually encircle major population centres to cut them off. This would be reminiscent of the
Soviet behavior pattern during the waning days of war leading to their withdrawal.


The Pakistanis are saying, "don't worry, nothing of the sort will happen - trust us"

....

Eventually, rural warfare would give way to urban warfare. Remember even how the Vietcong eventually came in from the countryside, and launched attacks in the main cities. Same with Mao's guerrillas, or Tito's, etc.
Yes, abandoning the country-side to the Taliban is a recipe for disaster. Difficult times ahead.

This particular incident may have the effect of making the American public to want to get the hell out. Whether by accident or otherwise, this incident does serve the interests of some elements in Washington (can call it the Milt Bearden school of thought).
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Pranav »

What I Saw at the Afghan Election
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02855.html


By Peter W. Galbraith
Sunday, October 4, 2009

Before firing me last week from my post as his deputy special representative in Afghanistan, U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon conveyed one last instruction: Do not talk to the press. In effect, I was being told to remain a team player after being thrown off the team. Nonetheless, I agreed.

As my differences with my boss, Norwegian diplomat Kai Eide, had already been well publicized (through no fault of either of us), I asked only that the statement announcing my dismissal reflect the real reasons. Alain LeRoy, the head of U.N. peacekeeping and my immediate superior in New York, proposed that the United Nations say I was being recalled over a "disagreement as to how the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA) would respond to electoral fraud." Although this was not entirely accurate -- the dispute was really about whether the U.N. mission would respond to the massive electoral fraud -- I agreed.

Instead, the United Nations announced my recall as occurring "in the best interests of the mission," and U.N. press officials told reporters on background that my firing was necessitated by a "personality clash" with Eide, a friend of 15 years who had introduced me to my future wife.

I might have tolerated even this last act of dishonesty in a dispute dating back many months if the stakes were not so high. For weeks, Eide had been denying or playing down the fraud in Afghanistan's recent presidential election, telling me he was concerned that even discussing the fraud might inflame tensions in the country. But in my view, the fraud was a fact that the United Nations had to acknowledge or risk losing its credibility with the many Afghans who did not support President Hamid Karzai.

I also felt loyal to my U.N. colleagues who worked in a dangerous environment to help Afghans hold honest elections -- at least five of whom have now told me they are leaving jobs they love in disgust over the events leading to my firing.

Afghanistan's presidential election, held Aug. 20, should have been a milestone in the country's transition from 30 years of war to stability and democracy. Instead, it was just the opposite. As many as 30 percent of Karzai's votes were fraudulent, and lesser fraud was committed on behalf of other candidates. In several provinces, including Kandahar, four to 10 times as many votes were recorded as voters actually cast. The fraud has handed the Taliban its greatest strategic victory in eight years of fighting the United States and its Afghan partners.

The election was a foreseeable train wreck. Unlike the United Nations-run elections in 2004, this balloting was managed by Afghanistan's Independent Election Commission (IEC). Despite its name, the commission is subservient to Karzai, who appointed its seven members. Even so, the international role was extensive. The United States and other Western nations paid the more than $300 million to hold the vote, and U.N. technical staff took the lead in organizing much of the process, including printing ballot papers, distributing election materials and designing safeguards against fraud.

Part of my job was to supervise all this U.N. support. In July, I learned that at least 1,500 polling centers (out of 7,000) were to be located in places so insecure that no one from the IEC, the Afghan National Army or the Afghan National Police had ever visited them. Clearly, these polling centers would not open on Election Day. At a minimum, their existence on the books would create large-scale confusion, but I was more concerned about the risk of fraud.

Local commission staff members were hardly experienced election professionals; in many instances they were simply agents of the local power brokers, usually aligned with Karzai. If no independent observers or candidate representatives, let alone voters, could even visit the listed location of a polling center, these IEC staffers could easily stuff ballot boxes without ever taking them to the assigned location. Or they could simply report results without any votes being in the ballot boxes.

Along with ambassadors from the United States and key allies, I met with the Afghan ministers of defense and the interior as well as the commission's chief election officer. We urged them either to produce a credible plan to secure these polling centers (which the head of the Afghan army had told me was impossible) or to close them down. Not surprisingly, the ministers -- who served a president benefiting from the fraud -- complained that I had even raised the matter. Eide ordered me not to discuss the ghost polling centers any further. On Election Day, these sites produced hundreds of thousands of phony Karzai votes.

At other critical stages in the election process, I was similarly ordered not to pursue the issue of fraud. The U.N. mission set up a 24-hour election center during the voting and in the early stages of the counting. My staff collected evidence on hundreds of cases of fraud around the country and, more important, gathered information on turnout in key southern provinces where few voters showed up but large numbers of votes were being reported. Eide ordered us not to share this data with anyone, including the Electoral Complaints Commission, a U.N.-backed Afghan institution legally mandated to investigate fraud. Naturally, my colleagues wondered why they had taken the risks to collect this evidence if it was not to be used.

In early September, I got word that the IEC was about to abandon its published anti-fraud policies, allowing it to include enough fraudulent votes in the final tally to put Karzai over the 50 percent threshold needed to avoid a runoff. After I called the chief electoral officer to urge him to stick with the original guidelines, Karzai issued a formal protest accusing me of foreign interference. My boss sided with Karzai.

Afghanistan is deeply divided ethnically and geographically. Both Karzai and the Taliban are Pashtun, Afghanistan's dominant ethnic group, which makes up about 45 percent of the country's population. Abdullah Abdullah, Karzai's main challenger, is half Pashtun and half Tajik but is politically identified with the Tajiks, who dominate the north and are Afghanistan's second largest ethnic group. If the Tajiks believe that fraud denied their candidate the chance to compete in a second round, they may respond by simply not recognizing the authority of the central government. The north already has de facto autonomy; these elections could add an ethnic fault line to a conflict between the Taliban and the government that to date has largely been a civil war among Pashtuns.

Since my disagreements with Eide went public, Eide and his supporters have argued that the United Nations had no mandate to interfere in the Afghan electoral process. This is not technically correct. The U.N. Security Council directed the U.N. mission to support Afghanistan's electoral institutions in holding a "free, fair and transparent" vote, not a fraudulent one. And with so much at stake -- and with more than 100,000 U.S. and coalition troops deployed in the country -- the international community had an obvious interest in ensuring that Afghanistan's election did not make the situation worse.

President Obama needs a legitimate Afghan partner to make any new strategy for the country work. However, the extensive fraud that took place on Aug. 20 virtually guarantees that a government emerging from the tainted vote will not be credible with many Afghans.

As I write, Afghanistan's Electoral Complaints Commission is auditing 10 percent of the suspect polling boxes. If the audit shows this sample to be fraudulent, the commission will throw out some 3,000 suspect ballot boxes, which could lead to a runoff vote between Karzai and Abdullah. By itself, a runoff is no antidote for Afghanistan's electoral challenges. The widespread problems that allowed for fraud in the first round of voting must be addressed. In particular, all ghost polling stations should be removed from the books ("closed" is not the right word since they never opened), and the election staff that facilitated the fraud must be replaced.

Afghanistan's pro-Karzai election commission will not do this on its own. Fixing those problems will require resolve from the head of the U.N. mission in Afghanistan -- a quality that so far has been lacking.

[email protected]

Peter W. Galbraith served as deputy special representative of the United Nations in Afghanistan from June until last week.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Johann »

The Viet Cong failed - the South Vietnamese state was able to push them out of most villages between 1968 and 1970.

South Vietnam fell to the North Vietnamese Army which occupied the jungle, well supplied with Soviet and Chinese aid through the 'Ho Chi Minh Trail'. Their big push in 1973 was a huge failure, but Congress and Gerald Ford's subsequent decision to abandon Vietnam meant a very different outcome in 1975.

The VC was largely South Vietnamese - its defeat and decimation in contrast to eventual NVA triumph is one of the reasons there were no South Vietnamese communist leaders in the united Vietnam after 1975.

The Taliban's big push in 1996 to Kabul and beyond and after was a semi-conventional offensive, not a guerrilla war. It succeeded in part thanks to the support of the regular PA military who provided the staff officers needed to keep the POL and ammunition moving, the lorries rolling, the helicopters flying, etc.

The Afghan state has historically never had a strong presence beyond the provincial capitals - control at the village level ultimately depended on local/tribal alliances, unless you can put troops everywhere, which thins them out and makes them vulnerable to these kinds of attacks.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Sanjay M »

There's no reason why there won't be covert Pak support for an extended Taliban campaign to encircle the cities. After all, the Taliban are already taking plenty of help from Pak soil as it is.

One further comparison of Vietnam is that you can't keep a country artificially divided in the long run, when the people want to reunite. This is true of the Irish, the Kurds, the Albanians, and the Pashtuns, among others. The people on both sides of the Durand Line regard themselves as a single nation. Therefore it's fairly certain that the Afghan Taliban will be getting help from their brethren on the Pak side of the "border", such as it is. And since the US taxpayer is helping to keep Pak afloat, it amounts to the US taxpayer footing the bill for the assaults on their own troops.

Haqqania is an example of a madrassa based on Pak soil that fuels the Taliban network - of Mullah Haqqani, in this case.

http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnis ... cle/633429

There's nothing preventing this kind of stuff continuing from all corners of Pakistan.
Once the Pakistanis sense real weakness on the part of the Americans, like blood in the water, then they'll come swarming like sharks.
They'll run from difficult battles, but when they sense the tipping point, then they'll pile on - and Kabul will fall like Saigon.

Then Taliban will come back to power on their own terms - with AlQaeda riding on their coattails back into their traditional haven. Then their planning will start in earnest. Rather than aiming northward to again pointlessly fight with the Tajiks under Masood's heirs, Osama's henchmen might see greater value in turning southward this time, having seen the recent successes of Baitullah Mehsud in making inroads into Pakistan. AlQaeda could offer the Pashtuns the chance to reunify, and throw off Islamabad's dictats. They could even take it further, and offer all of Pakistan a new social revolution under Wahhabist fundamentalist Islam.

I could see many poor and impoverished Pakistanis responding positively to this call.

I'm wondering what we Indians would do in that case. Some US experts have quietly made contingency plans for eliminating Pak's nuclear arsenal, in the event that it were to truly be in danger of falling into extremist hands.
Would we Indians care to put America's convictions to the test?
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Philip »

War within War! Gen.McChrystal vs Obama.

Gen.McChrystal's crystal clear views on the Afghan War make him the favourite to follow in another famous Gen. who ran foul of his president,Gen.Douglas MacArthur! The problem is that the US State and Defence Depts. view the war very differently.The strategy of mollycoddling rent-boy Pak is at the root of it all.The global problem is not terrorism based in Afghanistan,but terrorism that is Pakistan.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... istan.html
Barack Obama furious at General Stanley McChrystal speech on Afghanistan

The relationship between President Barack Obama and the commander of Nato forces in Afghanistan has been put under severe strain by Gen Stanley McChrystal's comments on strategy for the war.

By Alex Spillius in Washington
Published: 7:00AM BST 05 Oct 2009

US General Stanley McChrystal Photo: AFP/GETTY
According to sources close to the administration, Gen McChrystal shocked and angered presidential advisers with the bluntness of a speech given in London last week.

The next day he was summoned to an awkward 25-minute face-to-face meeting on board Air Force One on the tarmac in Copenhagen, where the president had arrived to tout Chicago's unsuccessful Olympic bid.

Eight US soldiers killed as Taliban storm outpost

US diplomat claims UN tried to gag him Gen James Jones, the national security adviser, yesterday did little to allay the impression the meeting had been awkward.

Asked if the president had told the general to tone down his remarks, he told CBS: "I wasn't there so I can't answer that question. But it was an opportunity for them to get to know each other a little bit better. I am sure they exchanged direct views."

An adviser to the administration said: "People aren't sure whether McChrystal is being naïve or an upstart. To my mind he doesn't seem ready for this Washington hard-ball and is just speaking his mind too plainly."

In London, Gen McChrystal, who heads the 68,000 US troops in Afghanistan as well as the 100,000 Nato forces, flatly rejected proposals to switch to a strategy more reliant on drone missile strikes and special forces operations against al-Qaeda.

He told the Institute of International and Strategic Studies that the formula, which is favoured by Vice-President Joe Biden, would lead to "Chaos-istan".

When asked whether he would support it, he said: "The short answer is: No."

He went on to say: "Waiting does not prolong a favorable outcome. This effort will not remain winnable indefinitely, and nor will public support."

The remarks have been seen by some in the Obama administration as a barbed reference to the slow pace of debate within the White House.

Gen McChrystal delivered a report on Afghanistan requested by the president on Aug 31, but Mr Obama held only his second "principals meeting" on the issue last week.

He will hold at least one more this week, but a decision on how far to follow Gen McChrystal's recommendation to send 40,000 more US troops will not be made for several weeks.

A military expert said: "They still have working relationship but all in all it's not great for now."

Some commentators regarded the general's London comments as verging on insubordination.

Bruce Ackerman, an expert on constitutional law at Yale University, said in the Washington Post: "As commanding general, McChrystal has no business making such public pronouncements."

He added that it was highly unusual for a senior military officer to "pressure the president in public to adopt his strategy".

Relations between the general and the White House began to sour when his report, which painted a grim picture of the allied mission in Afghanistan, was leaked. White House aides have since briefed against the general's recommendations.

The general has responded with a series of candid interviews as well as the speech. He told Newsweek he was firmly against half measures in Afghanistan: "You can't hope to contain the fire by letting just half the building burn."

As a divide opened up between the military and the White House, senior military figures began criticising the White House for failing to tackle the issue more quickly.

They made no secret of their view that without the vast ground force recommended by Gen McChrystal, the Afghan mission could end in failure and a return to power of the Taliban.

"They want to make sure people know what they asked for if things go wrong," said Lawrence Korb, a former assistant secretary of defence.

Critics also pointed out that before their Copenhagen encounter Mr Obama had only met Gen McChrystal once since his appointment in June.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Pranav »

Philip wrote:The strategy of mollycoddling rent-boy Pak is at the root of it all.The global problem is not terrorism based in Afghanistan,but terrorism that is Pakistan.
Very true. And this molly-coddling has always caused conflicts within the US.

For example, in 1971, the US consulate in Dhaka was sending telegrams describing the genocide - but the US was supporting the Paks.
In the infamous Blood telegram, the Consulate in Dacca condemns the United States for failing "to denounce the suppression of democracy," for failing "to denounce atrocities," and for "bending over backwards to placate the West Pak dominated government and to lessen any deservedly negative international public relations impact against them."

source: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB79/


The interesting issue is what motivates this molly-coddling. The rationale in 1971 might perhaps be explicable in terms of the cold-war bipolarity.

What about now? Is it some kind of protection money, to bribe the Paks into not spreading their nukes? Or is it to prop up the Paks for an anti-India purpose, to keep India tied up in South Asia?

Today, there again is a conflict within the US Government. The military brass are all for cracking down on the Taliban. Holbrooke, Hillary and Gates seem to support them. On the other side we have Rahm Emmanuel and Gen James Jones. These are the personalities that are publicly visible. Undoubtedly there will be other players behind the scenes.

There is also the issue of the election fraud - the side which is more likely to settle with the Taliban seems to be getting the favourable treatment.

It does seem, that in the ultimate analysis, it is the molly-coddlers who hold more power than those who oppose the molly-coddling.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by CRamS »

Pranav:

If you closely look at how US works, its govt, media, people etc; they take the 'best' of everything without going to the complete exptreme, and this everything includes the beneficial part of abhorrent things like fascism, military dictatorship, communism etc.

To this end, note the complete reverence, almost slavish submission by many to what military generals think. Look at the public spat between an elected lkeader like Biden, and a maacho general like McCrystal. Thus, when it comes to mollycoddling TSP, my own view is that the generals and Pentagon bosses hold the sway. And for sure TSP is providing them with enough help to continue this mollycoddling. Just think about it; from complete denial that they have anything to do with terrorism just a few years back, TSP turncoats now pose as the warriors against this scourage.

And of course, given that India is neither a white country, nor does it have enough sgtrategic value to US, and given that US interests are served anyway by an ever willing Indian public and pliant govt and elite; there is no backlash. I can't for example fathom billions of $s of aid to TSP even if the penatgon bosses want it, if TSP terror were directed against a western country for example; the US media would have exposed it, there would be debates, consternation from the public etc. In India's case, there are no hic-cups even to all the aid pouring into TSP coffers even as they direct that against India.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Prem »

White House: Leaving Afghanistan not an option
WASHINGTON – The White House said Monday that President Barack Obama is not considering a strategy for Afghanistan that would withdraw U.S. troops from the eroding war there.

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said that walking away isn't a viable option to deal with a war that is about to enter its ninth year.

"I don't think we have the option to leave. That's quite clear," Gibbs said.

The debate over whether to send as many as 40,000 more U.S. troops to Afghanistan is a major element of a strategy overhaul that senior administration policy advisers will consider this week as they gather for top-level meetings on the evolving direction of the war.

Obama has invited a bipartisan group of congressional leaders to the White House on Tuesday to confer about the war. He said the administration would brief leaders from both parties and key committee chairmen and would seek their opinions.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091005/ap_ ... fghanistan
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Johann »

Pranav,

The USG view is that dishonest as the Pakistanis are, the current arrangement has been sufficient to prevent any further attacks within the US. That is the only thing that matters in US public opinion, and hence elections.

I had posted on the forum both after the US elections, and after the administration that the Obama administration for all its rhetoric does *not* have a strategy, and will experiment with different approaches, even though there really isnt time to play around.

The Obama administration wants the lowest cost option in terms of committed troop strengths and casualties,. Along with preventing domestic attacks, it is the other political bottom line. The Obama administration is willing to redefine the mission to give themselves the answer they want to hear.

In any case all influential American points of view agree that the US can not disengage complete with 'Af-Pak'.

The Americans are also unlikely to let up pressure on the Pakistanis about Waziristan, and after Waziristan the Taliban leadership in Quetta, which remains openly ideologically committed to alliance with Al-Qaeda.

In any case, neither Afghanistan nor Pakistan are going to see much peace even if the US strategy changes yet again. What happens if Quetta is targeted? Will Bahwalpur have to become the new leadership refuge? What will the 'Punjabi Taliban' do if the bombs follow? The violence in Pakistan is going to be spectacular, and awful as the jihadis lash at the Pakistani state for its double game.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Sanjay M »

The Atlanticist NYT is unhappy with General McChrystal's challenging of Obama's troop-light strategy, and so the NYT has chosen to highlight the "unprofessional" nature of McChrystal's remiarks:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/06/world/06gates.html

They're telling McChrystal to shut up.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

The US is so thoroughly messed up in Afghanistan. It just doesn't know what to do as its casualties keep mounting by the day. It realizes that it is fighting an unwinnable war just as it was in Vietnam four decades back. Look at the confused suggestions flowing from all directions within the US administration. While Gen. McChrystal wants 40000 additional troops, Obama seems to fear that this may suck US troops in a terrain that is not favourable to them just as it was in Vietnam. He certainly wants to remove his armed forces as soon as possible and yet retain influence over Afghanistan, an impossible goal. At times, it even thinks of outsourcing the Afghan operations to the Pakistanis even as they are refusing to help eliminate the Quetta Shura ! The US is now caught in an 'Eagle Trap'. It is not helped by the utter inability of the NATO troops in the Afghan campaign. The US wavers between a non-Taliban partner and sometimes even a Talibani partner in Kabul. It wants Indian involvement in reconstruction of Afghanistan, training of its administrators etc but some sections of the Administration also want to curtail it. The Pakistanis have outsmarted the US and yet US is unable to do anything about that. At times, it gives the impression of not realizing the various ways by which the Pakistanis are toying with them and at other times it talks tough only to dilute its stand soon thereafter. There is nobody who has messed up the world more than the Americans.
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Sanjay M »

Here's a more detailed analysis of McChrystal's comments:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03792.html
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Pranav »

The abandonment of the Afghan country-side:
The death of eight American soldiers in a Taliban attack in Kamdesh District in Afghanistan's north-eastern Nuristan province on October 3 could expedite the planned withdrawal of US-led coalition forces. This is already happening as there are reports that the beleaguered coalition troops have already pulled out from combat outposts such as Machadad Kot, Marghai and Rakha in Paktika and Khost provinces and from the strategic and dangerous, Taliban-infested Sato Kandao pass in Paktia.
source: http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=201840

It is true that security forces should not be unnecessarily exposed. But then, is there any alternate plan for preventing the Pak sponsored Talibs from moving into the vacated areas?
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Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Sanjay M »

Yes - put troops in Pak.
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