Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Pranav
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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby Pranav » 05 Oct 2009 09:33

shiv wrote:
If I have interpreted this article right the S1 Thermonuclear device was in an L shaped shaft that was 200 meters deep and then ran off to one side for 120 meters. (The other interpretation is that the shaft was 120 meters deep). I am assuming the former - i.e 200 meters deep and going off to one side for a further 120 meters at a depth of 200 meters.

If that is the case- and surface disturbance and crater if any should form with its center at a spot 120 meters away from the shaft and winch. The wrong place to look for a crater would be at the site of the vertical shaft and winch. Any crater must form directly above the explosion cavity and if that cavity is 120 meters away from the bottom of the vertical shaft then the intact winch means nothing. It means only what Sublette said 10 years ago - the test could have been a fizzle but a sizzle can't be ruled out.


Ahaa, there must have been a nice big crater but they looked for it in the wrong place, the real crater was actually some 120 meters away and these dudes had blinkers on.
{OT image deleted}

(Sorry Shiv, part of the game.)
{Pranav, kindly put all pictures of Pakistanis in the BENIS dhaga. Thx. :mrgreen: Here ppl are all browsing with their Attack Sensors on High Alert and tend to launch missiles on whim. }

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby shiv » 05 Oct 2009 09:47

Pranav wrote:Ahaa, there must have been a nice big crater but they looked for it in the wrong place, the real crater was actually some 120 meters away and these dudes had blinkers on.


(Sorry Shiv, part of the game.)


No need to say sorry. I have no problems with people agreeing with me or disagreeing. I can survive in the forum either way. But if expresbuzz is to be believed then this new "120meters" figure is a mystery

It says "over 120 meters". Over 120 meters down or off to the side? If it is "over 120 meters down" it means very little. But what Expressbuzz seems to be saying is that it was not as deep as alleged and only 50 meters deeper than the other.

In a "first" - Expressbuzz reverses S1 and S2 - another mystery.

I have been using Bing to see if I can find out who first gave the names S1 and S2 etc to those tests.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby rakall » 05 Oct 2009 10:48

Arun_S wrote:Dear friends, please note that I stand by my statements on BR, and time will reveal the self evident truth. Interesting times lie ahead, and matters will become clearer as major events unfold.

It is sad to note that BRF no longer represent "Bharat" and has become a propaganda media for GoI official line; an echo-chamber

I hereby withdraw from BR and BRF.

My thanks to everybody for your support, discussions and bearing with me.

There is a real "Bharat" out there to serve, and I urge my friends to look up to it.

I ask the powers to be on BRF to leave my last post intact.

Thank you
Arun_S



Arun_S's contribution to BRF was & is highly valued.. it is disappointing that he chose to go..

however i cannot agree with the content of his last post. I cannnot help but highlight the error of judgement (for the benefit of others still reading the posts) -- the forum has not suddenly become bereft of "Bharat" or "Bharat rakshak" becoz a certain line of argument on the success of TN test was not won.. As a memeber of the forum, I take exceptional slight to the statement..

Even as the DRDO/MoD were talking of 2000km Agni2 or 3000km range Agni-3 missile etc - Arun, you have attributed higher ranges to them.. and many of us believed it or wanted to believe it.. if we are "Bharat" for that, how do we suddenly become purged of all "Bharat" inside us just bcoz everyone here conclusively did not believe what Santhanam said & then you said it again here..

Most of us here are here bcoz we have a certain spirit that brings us here.. no matter if I have an argument with XYZ on a ABC thread, I will dine with him in the next Bangalore BR meet.. he does not become a Paki for disagreeing with me.. I believe, each one of us (including Shiv) have a certain spirit that cannot be judged or tried_to_be_taken_away by anyone on the sole basis of an argument based on the TN test.. "Bharat" is really a lot lot more than just weapons & missiles..

Humble request to the mods to leave this post in the defence of the spirit of the forum unedited...

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby Sanku » 05 Oct 2009 11:08

{I have edited this post, deleted false, ignorant and/or hate-mongering / flame-baiting content if any, and left only the content that is relevant to this thread.}
Last edited by enqyoob on 05 Oct 2009 17:20, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: stated above

amit
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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby amit » 05 Oct 2009 11:21

Its difficult to understand how this:

It is sad to note that BRF no longer represent "Bharat" and has become a propaganda media for GoI official line; an echo-chamber <N^3 snip of a blatant personal attack>


Can be interpreted as this:

I do not think that Arun_S is talking about what is happening on the thread.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby rakall » 05 Oct 2009 11:33

Sanku wrote:@rakall

I do not think that Arun_S is talking about what is happening on the thread.

Meanwhile something to remember is that the strongest defense of TN being a sizzle has come from those who have sought to prove the point by clowning around and mocking others and when that did not work by trying to shut down the thread.


Jai ho.




1. Please read the first statement of Arun - "I stand by my statements on BR, and time will reveal the self evident truth" and also "has become a propaganda media for GoI official line; an echo-chamber {false statement snipped}"

Can you please relate those statements to anything that is happening on "any other thread"..


2. Anyway - my main objection in my post (or better call it rant) which forms the main body of my post/rant is his statement "It is sad to note that BRF no longer represent "Bharat" and has become a propaganda media for GoI official line".

As a part of the forum I feel bad by such attributions (that too coming from a very senior & long standing/serving BRFite).. I take an exception to that..

The above has nothing to do with TN being a fizzle or sizzle..

{OK, folks, there has been enough on this topic, pls. }

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby Raj Malhotra » 05 Oct 2009 11:56

{I have edited this post, deleted false, ignorant and/or flame-baiting content if any, and left only the content that is relevant to this thread. I believe this postor was already informed about the value of his contributions a while back by someone else.}
Last edited by enqyoob on 05 Oct 2009 17:25, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: stated above

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby vina » 05 Oct 2009 12:01

Hmm. Wonder how many in this forum and this thread specifically have traveled to Pokhran and also seen Kheotelai. I proudly announce that I just came back from Rajasthan and journeyed via Pokhran and Kheotelai .

Pokhran lies on the road between Jodhpur and Jaisalmer. Pokhran seems to be one of those typical Thar desert towns.. A fort and a small settlement with the highway running through it. Actually stopped there and bought mint lozenges for the kid.

Some couple of kilometers (5 I think) is a board on the highway that says MES Kheotelai (military engg services) facility that points north out of the highway (which runs east west) and there is a high tower kind of thing that can be seen clearly from the highway . That is quite close to Kheotelai village and I saw scrub and sand dunes kind of ground out there beyond that. All that part looked fenced off and a clearly military facility. I guess the Pokhran range (IAF,Army etc, including the New Clear Bum range) must be around there.

If the new clear bum shook kheotelai decently enough to put cracks there (which is 5 km away as per Chidambaram et al), I wonder what would happen to Pokhran town itself and Kheotelai village if they tested a 1 to 5 Megaton weapon . Interesting. Maybe they would go deeper in to the desert away from Pokhran town to do that I think.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby RayC » 05 Oct 2009 12:02

Raj Malhotra wrote:What you don't know is that Arun_S has been pressurized by some other admins/Oldies to leave who "might" want to protect their own point of view which was coming apart.



If that was so, then how do you know it?

CIA with moles in every nook and cranny?

Or pure Sherlock Holmes stuff?

There is no point of view of an Admin or Mod.

In fact, I am a Mod. Have I participated?

No.

Let those who feel they are better than the Indian nuclear scientists pontificate. I watch on the sidelines and wonder why such great scientific talent exhibited on this thread has been wasted by the GOI!

I am sure Iran maybe out for some recruitment and is watching this thread closely!

This thread is under CCTV (Metaphorically). Therefore, be cautioned on your outburst and your language. Applicable to all!

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby rakall » 05 Oct 2009 12:12

{Rakall, I am ending this discussion. I think RayC said what needed to be said about the post in question. Thanks.}

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby manoba » 05 Oct 2009 12:17

Arun_S wrote:Dear friends, please note that I stand by my statements on BR, and time will reveal the self evident truth. Interesting times lie ahead, and matters will become clearer as major events unfold.

It is sad to note that BRF no longer represent "Bharat" and has become a propaganda media for GoI official line; an echo-chamber **snip snip and snip**

I hereby withdraw from BR and BRF.

My thanks to everybody for your support, discussions and bearing with me.

There is a real "Bharat" out there to serve, and I urge my friends to look up to it.

I ask the powers to be on BRF to leave my last post intact.

Thank you
Arun_S


The Chinese curse is: May you live in interesting times! But then, what are these "interesting times" we are talking about?

Arun, I know you are one heck of stubborn Bharathiya (from one of your comments you posted on my blog), but it doesn't mean one must not disagree with you and one must think in sync with you. Unless and otherwise there is something completely different going on on the back stage independent of BRF posts, leaving the forum for some people strongly oppose/challenge/contradict your views is not in the spirit of BRFite.

But seeing you leaving is bit sad, especially after all your highly-valued contribution to BRF. Hope you may revisit your decision after your vacation.

Hope too, I won't be labeled as "non Bharath" for I have employed a Chinese proverb.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby amit » 05 Oct 2009 12:18

{Amit, I am ending this discussion. I think RayC said what needed to be said about the post in question. Thanks.}
Last edited by enqyoob on 05 Oct 2009 17:29, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: get discussion back to techno-political

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby Neela » 05 Oct 2009 12:18

rakall,

your reaction comes a little bit too late.
What you have quoted is just a teeny bit of many such posts from a lot of senior members of BRF.
Far too much has happened in the 130+ pages. Where were the mods through all this?

Senior members post with impunity here. I am appalled at the lack of basic courtesies and their choice of words.

From this beginning, this thread was bound to be controversial. Common sense should have prevailed and a few more mods to monitor this thread would have helped. It takes very little for things to spiral out of control. The mods slept through all this.

Anujan is right. Disagreements should be handled in a better way.

But it is important to remember that BR needs certain people for their contributions.Fact!
The job of the mods is to hold the pieces together. The mods have failed!

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby svinayak » 05 Oct 2009 12:31

NRao wrote:

I would compromise to "We are asking for a TN test and a credible demonstrated TN weapon". (I would reword it tho'.)

Thank you


Even if the structure (of PRC leaders) remains the same, I am arguing that their mentality is very different. Like Indian "leaders" they also have similar pressure points - as individuals or very small groups. (For deterrence: target those pressure points.)

Since India inherited the problem there will be problems for India. It has to protect itself from bullying and war from China.

Inherited some 60 years ago. Tested something in 1974, something else in 1998 and in 2009 complaining that more needs to be done to "protect itself"?

On "bullying", yes true. But, a bully can ONLY bully someone who is willing to get bullied.

You got it

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby RayC » 05 Oct 2009 12:35

Enough of discussion on Arun.

He has his reasons and let him be.

That is not the aim of the thread.

Any further discussion on this, will invite a warning. Be informed and duly cautioned.

If you have nothing constructive to offer on the main issue of the thread, you are advised to maintain silence.

Neela,

It is not for you to comment on the Mods. Please do not assume the mantle of Sir Oracle! Or Lord of Tartary!

Own a forum and have a ball.

Any more of your unwarranted comments, you shall have to quit your stay here.

If you have nothing to contribute, then just cut the slack!

There is no senior and junior members here. It is the content.

If you are meaning Shiv, I had a huge fracas with him when I has just joined over Iraq and his supporting some US Sargent! I survived. That proves that it is equal all the way!!

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby Raj Malhotra » 05 Oct 2009 12:40

{I have edited out irrelevant stuff in the interests of protecting the postor, and left only comments relevant to this thread, which is after all about the following:}

blank

blank

blank
Last edited by enqyoob on 05 Oct 2009 17:31, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: stated above

RayC
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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby RayC » 05 Oct 2009 12:46

RayC wrote:
Raj Malhotra wrote:What you don't know is that Arun_S has been pressurized by some other admins/Oldies to leave who "might" want to protect their own point of view which was coming apart.



If that was so, then how do you know it?

CIA with moles in every nook and cranny?

Or pure Sherlock Holmes stuff?

There is no point of view of an Admin or Mod.

In fact, I am a Mod. Have I participated?

No.

Let those who feel they are better than the Indian nuclear scientists pontificate. I watch on the sidelines and wonder why such great scientific talent exhibited on this thread has been wasted by the GOI!

I am sure Iran maybe out for some recruitment and is watching this thread closely!

This thread is under CCTV (Metaphorically). Therefore, be cautioned on your outburst and your language. Applicable to all!


Read Shiv posts, few pages back asking "publically" Arun_S to resign. And as to outburst and language, i find nothing wrong with my language. If Iran is about then Emergency Censorship may also be about. So In keeping with blank pages of those era, here is my view:-


blank

blank

blank


Shiv is a part of the Admin and Mod team?

Till now, things have been accepted, but no more. Be it anyone. There are no Holy Cows.

Easy does it!

No more on this, if you don't mind!

Get back to the subject, if you have something to contribute and in moderate language, which I insist.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby Raj Malhotra » 05 Oct 2009 12:53

RayC wrote:Shiv is a part of the Admin and Mod team?

Till now, things have been accepted, but no more. Be it anyone. There are no Holy Cows.



Am I allowed to reply to that? Pls note that you put a "?" after the sentence, so grammatically it is question asking for an answer.
Last edited by Raj Malhotra on 05 Oct 2009 12:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby RayC » 05 Oct 2009 12:55

Raj Malhotra wrote:
RayC wrote:Shiv is a part of the Admin and Mod team?

Till now, things have been accepted, but no more. Be it anyone. There are no Holy Cows.



Am I allowed to reply to that?


I would prefer not since it is an universal truth and discussion is a waste of time.

Understand the bottomline of my post - PEACE!

War is costly. It hurts the aggressor and the defender!

And in the end everyone loses!

But if you are very keen, who I am I to stop you? Others can judge.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby Raj Malhotra » 05 Oct 2009 13:00

RayC wrote:
I would prefer not since it is an universal truth and discussion is a waste of time.



:rotfl:

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby RayC » 05 Oct 2009 13:03

arunsrinivasan,

The cleaning process has started.

Your post has vanished since it was OT and totally contrary to my peace advisory.

More OT and more cleaning!

As they say any more for any more for Tambola. House Closing.

Only thing, I would go beyond the rules and ban - three warnings or not and then let the Admins decide.

Can't reduce the forum to a circus!

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby Neela » 05 Oct 2009 13:13

RayC wrote:Neela,

It is not for you to comment on the Mods. Please do not assume the mantle of Sir Oracle! Or Lord of Tartary!

Own a forum and have a ball.

Any more of your unwarranted comments, you shall have to quit your stay here.

If you have nothing to contribute, then just cut the slack!

There is no senior and junior members here. It is the content.

If you are meaning Shiv, I had a huge fracas with him when I has just joined over Iraq and his supporting some US Sargent! I survived. That proves that it is equal all the way!!



RayC Sir,
the highlighted parts were uncalled for. Your message can be conveyed more politely and in simpler words.

And I still believe and respect your position as mod on this forum and I know you have a job to do.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby RayC » 05 Oct 2009 13:33

Neela wrote:
RayC wrote:Neela,

It is not for you to comment on the Mods. Please do not assume the mantle of Sir Oracle! Or Lord of Tartary!

Own a forum and have a ball.

Any more of your unwarranted comments, you shall have to quit your stay here.

If you have nothing to contribute, then just cut the slack!

There is no senior and junior members here. It is the content.

If you are meaning Shiv, I had a huge fracas with him when I has just joined over Iraq and his supporting some US Sargent! I survived. That proves that it is equal all the way!!


Indeed I am a Moderator and I have no doubt about that till I am asked to quit. And I normally do not impose since I get educated by divergent views. More than being a Moderator, I enjoy this forum since it has so much to teach.

However, it is not fair to comment on Moderators that they have failed without a detailed report. As far as what you have highlighted, may I ask you if you know how this forum is Moderated? Are you aware that Moderators are not beyond moderation? So, personally, when I find 'considered' opinions delivered in a vacuum of a 'sub junta' attitude (know all) air of superciliousness, it does vindicate the remarks I gave and justifies that it was indeed warranted. Are you aware what rules the Moderators are subjected to? You imply that we are a circus. Rest your pretty head in peace. This is no circus. We are watching over you and there are those who are watching over us and they are more than fair and more with you than with us. So, get that straight!

If you feel that the Moderators are a bunch of idiots, then please email the Webmaster and state what great fools we are and how you should take our place.

If you feel that we Moderators revel in 'power', take another guess. Most of us have/had positions where we had so much of power that it no longer excites in a juvenile way!

No more from you on this subject.

If you don't like what I have said, approach the Admins.

I have had enough of the wayward ways where each is trying to be Superman and going OT without adding a sausage to the thread!

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby shiv » 05 Oct 2009 14:19

Folks - no point bringing in any conspiracy theories/blame game about Arun's quitting. It was the only honorable thing left for him to do given that he had willingly painted himself into a corner in which he would prove himself wrong no matter what he said.

Either India's thermonuclear test failed (as asserted by Arun on this forum) and India could not have TN weapons in its arsenal or India has thermonuclear weapons in its arsenal as detailed in the BR missiles page maintained by Arun. Both cannot be right and Arun insists that he stands by all that he has said (which is actually a lot more that what I have mentioned here) . But no explanations were forthcoming when he was asked about this ludicrous travesty. The only way he can stand by his words without explanations being demanded of him about this glaring discrepancy in his stated views is by quitting the post of Webmaster BR.

All other theories and blame games are fluff.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby Sanku » 05 Oct 2009 14:34

vina wrote:Hmm. Wonder how many in this forum and this thread specifically have traveled to Pokhran and also seen Kheotelai. I proudly announce that I just came back from Rajasthan and journeyed via Pokhran and Kheotelai ..


I have many times. I have also seen the memorial to Pok II. The first time was just after the tests.

Because of "friends" I also got to go a little closer than most tourists, I also saw all manners of Army stuff around.

I have first hand information of what the "huge cataclysmic damage to Kehtolai after the balsts"

A few cracks and few existing dilapidated structures shaken up a bit -- then photographed at 1" inch distance by Jholawallas and turned into a Nuke bashing Mil Bashing India Bashing and BJP/Hindutva bashing

(BJP did not care because Khetolai votes congress type of article)

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby Sanku » 05 Oct 2009 14:39

shiv wrote:Folks - no point bringing in any conspiracy theories/blame game about Arun's quitting. It was the only honorable thing left for him to do given that he had willingly painted himself into a corner in which he would prove himself wrong no matter what he said.


Wonder why the "honorable" thing is only for Arun_S when all manners of dishonorable behavior is being done by many worthies here.

Far worse than Arun_S on this thread.

As far as I know many worthies including Bharat Karnad said that they believed the words from BARC etc to mean that a S1 worked and on that basis India has working TNs

This was also said by a Minister in Indian Govt. "we have the capablity to field TNs -- Vasundhara Raje"

Based on those Arun_S made some projections which he has said hazar times that was made of belief of a certain set of statements.

Yeah shooting him rather than looking at the fact that we have been willfully misled as a nation is a "honorable" thing no doubt. Not to mention a very rational and understanding one.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby Haria » 05 Oct 2009 14:48

shiv wrote:Either India's thermonuclear test failed (as asserted by Arun on this forum) and India could not have TN weapons in its arsenal or India has thermonuclear weapons in its arsenal as detailed in the BR missiles page maintained by Arun. Both cannot be right and Arun insists that he stands by all that he has said (which is actually a lot more that what I have mentioned here) . But no explanations were forthcoming when he was asked about this ludicrous travesty.

All other theories and blame games are fluff.



Not quite correct... Very long time ago (atleast 6months before the statement by KS ) I clearly remember reading a post by Arun_S wherein he expressed anguish because he accepted the official GOI line about TN as "Brahamsatya" (his exact words). The BR page on TN was written based on the official line and he lamented it being wrong....

So he DID not put himself in corner rather - and I am sad to say this - people like you "Shiv" are partly responsible for painting misleading picture.

Clearly India does not have TN at this moment contrary to what people have been propagating here about khetolai etc.

RayC,

Who watches the watchmen? If Arun_S had to go away from the BR then why habitual flame baiters like N3 are still part of watch...

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby shiv » 05 Oct 2009 14:50

Sanku wrote:
As far as I know many worthies including Bharat Karnad said that they believed the words from BARC etc to mean that a S1 worked and on that basis India has working TNs.


Reference please. For my own edification and for my archives.

Not asking any more from you than I asked of Arun. Hope you can do better than leaving in a huff.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby shiv » 05 Oct 2009 15:03

Haria wrote:Not quite correct... Very long time ago (atleast 6months before the statement by KS ) I clearly remember reading a post by Arun_S wherein he expressed anguish because he accepted the official GOI line about TN as "Brahamsatya" (his exact words). The BR page on TN was written based on the official line and he lamented it being wrong....


It should have been corrected. It was not done for 6 months after Arun knew as per your assertion. No use expressing anguish. That is rubbish. If Arun believed that RC or anyone had lied and that his information was based on lies he had absolutely no business to continue pushing an extrapolation of that lie as a Webmaster on Bharat Rakshak, having known about it for at least 6 months and having expressed anguish about it. And while that info did not change on BR the fizzle claim persisted on BRF.

And he did not bother answering when I asked him.
Last edited by shiv on 05 Oct 2009 15:19, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: .

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby shiv » 05 Oct 2009 15:05

AdityaM wrote:i am afraid this is all going to boil down to many BRF veterans moving away :((

I guess this thread has been nuked



And it won't bring back the veterans whom Arun's view chased away. But all the people who expressed concern at his language and accusations will be happy and many are likely to return. Let me take this opportunity to welcome them back.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby Sanku » 05 Oct 2009 15:10

shiv wrote:
Sanku wrote:
As far as I know many worthies including Bharat Karnad said that they believed the words from BARC etc to mean that a S1 worked and on that basis India has working TNs.


Reference please. For my own edification and for my archives.

Not asking any more from you than I asked of Arun. Hope you can do better than leaving in a huff.


Please refer to Bharat Karnad's last article in Express Buzz.

You have seen it and commented on it.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby shiv » 05 Oct 2009 15:11

Sanku url please

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby Haria » 05 Oct 2009 15:21

shiv wrote:
Haria wrote:Not quite correct... Very long time ago (atleast 6months before the statement by KS ) I clearly remember reading a post by Arun_S wherein he expressed anguish because he accepted the official GOI line about TN as "Brahamsatya" (his exact words). The BR page on TN was written based on the official line and he lamented it being wrong....


It should have been corrected. It was not done for 6 months after Arun knew as per your assertion. No use expressing anguish. That is rubbish. If Arun believed that RC or anyone had lied and that his information was based on lies he had absolutely no business to continue pushing an extrapolation of that lie as a Wembaster on Bharat Rakshak, having known about it for at least 6 months and having expressed anguish about it. And while that info did not change on BR the fizzle claim persisted on BRF.

And he did not bother answering when I asked him.


Although difficult in present situation.. lets be reasonable....

When the said post appeared here on BRF The official line was still (as it is even now -- after KS/PKI) solid in junta's grey cells.

Things were very unclear then.... So the page on BR remained (My understanding). It was to be changed in the present case once the dust settled down (and general view accepted that Fusion part of S1 failed).

However before that could happen came your harsh -- and I would call it personal tirade -- against Arun_S.

Welcome people whosoever you wish as do birds of same feather...

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby Sanku » 05 Oct 2009 15:24

shiv wrote:


deleted post on Arun_S

Shiv you wanted proof on what BK said?
Link?

Meanwhile please feel to ignore this once again

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/stor ... GntEw72ik=

The coordinator of the 1998 series of nuclear tests K Santhanam has authoritatively shown up the Indian government’s thermonuclear claims as pretension torpedoing, in the process, the longstanding fiction of India’s mastery over the science of fusion weapons purveyed by R Chidambaram, adviser to the prime minister on science and technology and, formerly, chairman, Atomic Energy Commission.


Most significantly, Santhanam disclosed that none of the high yield thermonuclear weapon designs in the 100-kiloton to 300-kiloton range that Chidambaram had repeatedly assured the government and the military had been realised have, in fact, been weaponised.


READ THIS IN FULL ALL PLEASE

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/stor ... %20in%20Ma

But one thing is for sure: the more Chidambaran tries to explain his miraculous non-working thermonuclear weapon the less likely it is that the people will believe him.
Last edited by Sanku on 05 Oct 2009 15:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby shiv » 05 Oct 2009 15:27

Haria wrote:Although difficult in present situation.. lets be reasonable....

When the said post appeared here on BRF The official line was still (as it is even now -- after KS/PKI) solid in junta's grey cells.

Things were very unclear then.... So the page on BR remained (My understanding). It was to be changed in the present case once the dust settled down (and general view accepted that Fusion part of S1 failed).

However before that could happen came your harsh -- and I would call it personal tirade -- against Arun_S.

Welcome people whosoever you wish as do birds of same feather...


Well if you are Webmaster you need to be accountable. Not like birds of my feather who will come and go. If you think telling the truth is harsh and personal - that is not going to make me squirm with anguish and not call a spade spade. I do not hold on to real or pretend anguish for six months when I am in a position to take corrective action.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby Sanku » 05 Oct 2009 15:32

shiv wrote:Well if you are Webmaster you need to be accountable. Not like birds of my feather who will come and go. If you think telling the truth is harsh and personal - that is not going to make me squirm with anguish and not call a spade spade. I do not hold on to real or pretend anguish for six months when I am in a position to take corrective action.


Yes and for this BR should suffer the loss of a good person and leave the forum to whose who think writing in Pingrezi makes for great debate

And this must be feted by no less person than a long standing admin (even if no more now) like you.

Frankly Shiv very very sad and disappointing.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby shiv » 05 Oct 2009 15:35




Sankuji kindly point me to where it says that the government claims to have weaponised thermouclear warheads and that Bharat Karnad was misled by that?

All that I can see is a statement that Chidambaram repeatedly assured the government that TN weapons were possible and that Santhanam said that TN weapons have not been weaponized.

Why on earth would Bharat Karnad believe that TN weapons exist in the basis of these two perfectly clear statements?

And please check the date of the article. Surely if BK had been misled you should easily be able to point me to a reference by BK saying that which is a few days or a few weeks or more older than Santhanam's fizzle story. Someone has said that Arun himself knew the truth for 6 months.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby shiv » 05 Oct 2009 15:37

Sanku wrote:Yes and for this BR should suffer the loss of a good person and leave the forum to whose who think writing in Pingrezi makes for great debate

And this must be feted by no less person than a long standing admin (even if no more now) like you.

Frankly Shiv very very sad and disappointing.


Sankuji anguish always seems to come at the wrong time. There was time to take action. Anguish was expressed at that time and no action taken. The time for anguish is over.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby Rahul M » 05 Oct 2009 15:39

most people are not aware of all the facts. in such a situation this discussion will come to all the wrong conclusions and blame all the wrong people.
please find a different place to discuss this.

lastly, let me add that I'm saddened that things came to such a pass and also a bit perplexed.

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Re: Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist - Part-3

Postby Haria » 05 Oct 2009 15:40

shiv wrote:Well if you are Webmaster you need to be accountable. Not like birds of my feather who will come and go. If you think telling the truth is harsh and personal - that is not going to make me squirm with anguish and not call a spade spade. I do not hold on to real or pretend anguish for six months when I am in a position to take corrective action.


What truth are you talking about. Calling a spade - spade eh? How many times have you done that here... Can you claim to have called a spade - spade always... If yes then you are the one with supreme intellect and one_who_knows_all and in that case and if not then WHY NOT? What about pingrezi speaking flame baiters

Seem like we are at the end of discussion for a while.

I shall ignore you for atleast for a while so that the tempers cool down.


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