Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Oct 2009 18:12

Mr. Qureshi declined to express an opinion about the deployment of more U.S. troops to southern Afghanistan, saying he was not a military expert. But he drew a contrast between NATO's operations in the south and Pakistan's operations against the Taliban this year. "Your troops went in and cleared the area. But once you came out, the Taliban came back in," he said. "What we do is: We go in, and we clear and we hold. When you do that, it requires more contact. It requires more resources. And it means more casualties." { That's a blatant lie that people in the USA may readily swallow, being used to taking Pakistani lies and half-truths as truths. We know how the PA had conducted its military operation in these ares since c. 2002. I thoroughly enjoy the sermons that go from Pakistan to US, especially when they gulp it.}

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Oct 2009 18:29

Obama delays signing K-L Bill due to Pakistani criticism

President Obama has delayed signing Kerry-Lugar bill due to reports of criticism on the bill in Pakistan, Geo news reported Wednesday.

According to sources, the decision came following reports in regard to reservations and questions raised by different sectors in Pakistan over the bill.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 07 Oct 2009 18:34

dailytimes.com

Ultimately, after the US consultants and intermediaries have taken their cut, Pakistan will get about three to four hundred million dollars which cannot do much when the country is several billion dollars short of its obligations and needs

Washington, assisted by Pakistani diplomats, has been using a clever method to mislead the Pakistani masses. One piece of aid may be repackaged many times. For example, let us say that the US announced an aid package for agriculture, health or education at the beginning of the year. On the arrival of every Pakistani top boss in Washington, a bigger US aid package will be announced without mentioning that most of the money in the new aid package was already announced months ago. Some Pakistanis cannot decipher the falsehood of these announcements. Every Pakistani diplomat, whether in Washington or Islamabad, along with the bosses, has been taking part in such misleading publicity stunts.

Pakistan was the largest recipient of US assistance under General Musharraf. It is about to receive even more of it under the Kerry-Lugar Bill. Because of what has happened in the past, there is a lack of trust between the donor and the recipient. Also, those who want to fight terrorism in Pakistan without American help — they actually believe Pakistan doesn’t need to fight terrorism — want the American assistance rejected.

Is it not now possible — unlike in the Cold War era — to be friendly with the US, China, our Muslim brothers, and even Russia, all at the same time? Defiance of the international community, particularly of the US, is appealingly heroic, but is it in our interest? I know where I stand. You may make up your own mind.

The $1.5 billion aid package passed by Congress last week asks Pakistan to cease supporting terrorist groups on its soil and to ensure that the military does not interfere with civilian politics.

President Asif Ali Zardari, whose association with the US has added to his unpopularity, agreed.

“But many in Pakistan, especially in the army, object to the conditions as interference in Pakistan’s internal affairs, and they are interpreting the larger American footprint in more sinister ways,” the paper said.

US officials believe the embassy and its security presence must expand in order to monitor how the new money is spent.

The US plans of expanding its embassies across the country and its security for diplomats through a Washington-based private contracting company, DynCorp, come at a time of intense discussion in Washington over whether to widen American operations and aid to Pakistan.

“Even at its current levels, the American presence is fuelling a sense of occupation among Pakistani politicians and security officials. The US is now being seen as behaving in Pakistan much as it did in Iraq and Afghanistan,” New York Times quoted officials on pledges of not to reveal their names.

“The Pakistani military and intelligence agencies are concerned that DynCorp is being used by Washington to develop a parallel network of security and intelligence personnel within Pakistan,” the paper reported officials and politicians close to the army as saying.

Some serious grievance here =
International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) Commander General Stanley McChrystal called on Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Ashfaq Kayani on Tuesday and discussed the ongoing war on terror and other matters of mutual interest.

Separately, a British delegation, led by Secretary of State for Home Affairs Alan Johnson and Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth, called on General Kayani and discussed various issues of mutual interest. Ainsworth also called on Joint Staff Director General Lieutenant General Raza Mohammad Khan at the Joint Staff Headquarters, Chaklala, and held talks, with special focus on Pak-UK defence cooperation.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 07 Oct 2009 18:46

Kerry-Lugar Bill is an insult, Army tells US military
Aid bill big success of democratic govt: Gilani

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 07 Oct 2009 18:50

pgbhat wrote:Kerry-Lugar Bill is an insult, Army tells US military
Aid bill big success of democratic govt: Gilani

The cutting edge of begging techniques is on display. Begging is a dhamki, success and insult all at the same time. And you get to do jihad against the donors too. wah wah..

arun · Post by **arun** » 07 Oct 2009 20:20

The Punjabi dominated Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan displays its genocidal doctrine to the minority Pathan / Pushtun.

Is this” Jihad Fi Sabilillah” or translated, “Jihad in the Way of Allah”? :

Tortured bodies of suspected militants found in Swat valley

Mingora, Pakistan — Special to The Globe and Mail Last updated on Tuesday, Oct. 06, 2009 08:22PM EDT

The tortured bodies of suspected militants have been found in Pakistan's Swat valley after a campaign by the Pakistani army against the Taliban, raising concerns that a hard-won victory may be sullied by accusations of extra-judicial killings.

There are also at least two mass graves where Taliban are buried, according to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan.

Separately, an Internet video emerged recently that appears to show Pakistani soldiers, likely in Swat, beating prisoners, including elderly men. The army was forced to announce an investigation into the video. …………………

According to Pakistani press reports, sourced to unnamed officials, 251 such corpses were found before the beginning of September. The bodies continue to be found, and locals estimate that the tally of bodies dumped in Swat could now be 300 to 400. ………………

The army denies executing its prisoners, suggesting that they were either killed in combat or at the hands of revenge-seeking citizens, including the lashkars , or tribal militias, which formed in recent weeks to defend against a return of the Taliban.

The military doesn't deny the existence of the mass graves, but says they were created by retreating Taliban killing their injured co-fighters rather than leave them behind to give away information to the authorities.

Some of the bodies found had their hands tied behind their backs. ………………

“Dead bodies are being found every day. … Even if these are reprisals by the lashkars , these lashkars have been formed by the government themselves, and they're being patronized by the government,” said Asma Jahangir, chair of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan. ………………………

Globe & Mail

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 07 Oct 2009 22:24

Good to see some counter to the drivel like "Bakistan has legitimate security conjers in Afghanistan ! India is destabilizing the happy taliban through developmental projects !!"

Pressurise Pak to stabilise Afghanistan: India

"The international community should put effective pressure on Pakistan to implement its stated commitment to deal with terrorist groups within its territory, including the members of al-Qaida, Taliban's Quetta Shura, Hizb-e-Islami, Lashkar-e-Taiba and other like-minded terrorist groups," foreign secretary Nirupama Rao said at an international seminar on Afghanistan here.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 08 Oct 2009 00:02

Army 'concern' over Pakistan aid

The army's reaction came hours before a parliamentary debate on the bill. Pakistan's top military commander, Gen Ashfaq Kayani, met senior military chiefs at the army's headquarters in Rawalpindi. The statement said that Pakistan is a sovereign state with every right to respond to threats in accordance with its interests. {Clearest statement yet, that terrorism will be continued to be used as an instrument of state policy}

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 08 Oct 2009 01:56

Shah Mahmood Qureshi on Charlie Rose
David Ignatius on Charlie Rose

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 08 Oct 2009 02:21

Lara Logan on Charlie Rose
basically calls "moderate taliban talk" as bullsh!t and says Pakistan is the problem and has no interest in dealing with it.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 08 Oct 2009 03:55

Looks like Zardari and H.Haqqani have ambushed TSPA by the inclusion of Quetta/Muridke, X.Khan and civilian control of army clauses in the Kerry Lugar bill.

Now, we may think this is popcorn/samosa-chai time but think like a TSPA General for one second.

If you are a TSPA General and feel that your nuts are in a squeeze, what do you do?

First you "test" some repainted Chinese missiles...

But if the squeezing pressure is too much, what more does your limited IQ tell you to do?

Does anyone remember the intense pressure on TSPA to take out Talipaki havens in North and South Waziristan last fall? All that pressure stopped in late November, didn't it?

archan · Post by **archan** » 08 Oct 2009 03:55

Lamp post becaoneth...
Pak govt may seek Red Corner Notice for Musharraf

Islamabad: The Pakistan government may ask the Interpol to issue a Red Corner Notice for former President Pervez Musharraf if Pakistani authorities sought his arrest in connection with a case related to the killing of Baloch nationalist leader Nawab Akbar Bugti, Interior Minister Rehman Malik said today.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 08 Oct 2009 04:05

archan wrote:Lamp post becaoneth...
Pak govt may seek Red Corner Notice for Musharraf

But then the "internal and external stakeholders" will intervene.

Everything in bakistan happens like clockwork. Keeda no 3.141 caught just before US visit, H. Saeed under "house arrest" just before foreign secretary meeting. Note that this November, bandicoot's "2-year moratorium on entering politics" will expire. And just like clockwork, in October you have red corner notices

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 08 Oct 2009 04:07

President, Army chief on board on Kerry-Lugar bill: Gilani
ISLAMABAD : Prime Minister Squeeze You Raza Gilani has said that that he had taken President Zardari and Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani into confidence on Kerry-Lugar bill.
Addressing the National Assembly that began on Wednesday the debate on multibillion dollar US aid package planned for the country, he said said that Pakistan is not bound to meet the conditions maintained in the bill to qualify for US aid. Gilani said that Pakistan Army is supporting the democracy, adding that the military regime has assured him that it would not derail the democracy in the country. The PM said his government would try to get a consensus by addressing the concerns of the Parliament and Army on Kerry-Lugar bill. The government would not allow anyone to visit Pakistan’s nuclear sites, he maintained>

http://www.thepakistaninewspaper.com/ne ... p?id=14726

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Oct 2009 04:09

Rangudu wrote:Looks like Zardari and H.Haqqani have ambushed TSPA by the inclusion of Quetta/Muridke, X.Khan and civilian control of army clauses in the Kerry Lugar bill.

Now, we may think this is popcorn/samosa-chai time but think like a TSPA General for one second.

If you are a TSPA General and feel that your nuts are in a squeeze, what do you do?

First you "test" some repainted Chinese missiles...

But if the squeezing pressure is too much, what more does your limited IQ tell you to do?

Does anyone remember the intense pressure on TSPA to take out Talipaki havens in North and South Waziristan last fall? All that pressure stopped in late November, didn't it?

R-Man, I posted a few days ago that $7.5B from Kerry _Lugar will make them turn on India.

its clear that TSP has always supported the jihadis. Now with the $7.5B 'aid' sanctioned there will be pressure to act on them. And that will lead to its own dynamics. When a softliner (TSPA) meets a hardliner they will defect and cause a civil war. TSPA wants to avoid that. These will be dicey times ahead.

And see page 16 of this thread.....Many posts on this theme.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 08 Oct 2009 04:16

Kayani displays anger over US diplomats' shenanigans
( Does this Low IQ man understand US Gernal dont control US Diplomats)

ISLAMABAD - Army Chief General Kayani protested strongly to General McChrystal about the undiplomatic behaviour of the US diplomats in Islamabad when the later met him in Islamabad on Tuesday. Kayani was particularly angry over the statements of the US ambassador and her deputy over the issue of the so-called “Quetta Shura” and insinuated threats of drone attacks on Quetta. Sources revealed that he gave a strong brush off also on the manner in which private US security concerns are flexing their muscle in different cities of Pakistan.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs had already sent two formal complaints to the US embassy before the incident of the Dutch “diplomats” and this incident has aggravated the situation further and may lead to a direct confrontation between the Foreign Office and the US ambassador

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... henanigans

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 08 Oct 2009 04:18

Ramana

It is not the $1.5B but the pressure to "act" that accompanies it.

Surely, the US is not bothered too much about Mumbai or those types of attacks on India. But the spurt of "homegrown + TSP link" scares and the desire to be seen to do "something" about Waziristan/FATA has led to maximum pressure being applied on TSPA to at least do a Swat like nautanki in Waziristan. Plus Unkil is firing missiles at anyone associated with Haqqani a.k.a ISI-stooge Taliban.

The drama of Swat took months to prepare for TSPA. How can they repeat the trick in a much wider area like North and South Waziristan in such a short notice?

Ergo, they need some distraction ASAP.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 08 Oct 2009 04:22

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=202110

Charity or a right?
Pagal Sahgal ( A former 71 POW )
l
While being grateful to Senators Kerry and Lugar for the intent, purpose (and efforts thereof) to bring necessary succour through the passage of the bill in the US Congress, the whole exercise will likely become counter-productive in terms of fostering goodwill among Pakistanis for the US. This is not only unfortunate but tragic. The economic side (Title I), $1.5 billion every year for five years, benchmarks notwithstanding, is most generous and welcome to an impoverished and almost bankrupt country, the conditionalities attached to the Security Assistance portion (Title II), of which the figure is not known but is believed to be cumulatively close to $1 billion per year, It is downright insulting, and would be unacceptable to any self-respecting nation. Acquiescence would mean Pakistan tacitly accepting being actively engaged in "cross-border terrorism." The sequence of the conditionalities spelt out is coincidentally strikingly similar to the charge-sheet against us by Indian leaders. This is not the language of the US government, the hand of the Indian lobby was certainly manifest in the drafting of the bill.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 08 Oct 2009 04:50

Qureishi: Pakistan Wants Drones

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 08 Oct 2009 06:18

Taliban Endanger Pakistan

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Oct 2009 09:10

The Kerry-Lugar Bill (aka PEACE Act) has created problems for the Zardari government; not so peaceful after all. The FoDP, in spite of its tall promises, has not been forthcoming with money and even when they did, they are routing it through the IMF/WB cmbine for specific projects. No longer are they going to give billions of dollars in cash to Pakistan and forget about that. The unending economic difficulties within Pakistan require the ruling party in Pakistan to get assistance from whatever sources and however little. The ruling PPP therefore sees no contradictions between the stated aims of major political parties and the Bill. Don't they all want to eliminate terrorism ? Don't they all want civilian oversight on the military ?

However, the PA sees red and obviously so. How can the Army, which has got a Nation, subject itself to the Nation now ? That would be very demeaning and humiliating to it. The Corps Commanders have expressed serious concerns and have sent their 'inputs' to the Government. Normally, such inputs will be 'demands' and 'threats' to the civilian government. The discussions a few days back between McChrystal and Kiyani would have centred only on this and one can reasonably speculate that if Obama is delaying the signing of the Bill it is because of PA's anger.

Meanwhile, the ulema, religio-political parties, Urdu media and now the electronic media have totally depicted the US as the Greatest Satan and the public of Pakistan's hatred for the US is at its highest ever. We can expect massive protests if Obama signs the bill and PPP will have to count its days in power. That's where the recent secret meeting between Kiyani and Shahbaz Sharif assumes significance. Anyhow, PML-N and Nawaz Sharif are far more popular than PPP and Zardari today. They will be helped by the PA to gain power through an interim election after defeating the PPP in the Parliament. As a quid-pro-quo, PML-N will ask the US for re-drafting the Bill. This is the likely scenario to emerge. Things could move rapidly in the next few days.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 08 Oct 2009 09:14

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... ill-05-sal

ISLAMABAD: The military-government differences on the conditions attached to an aid legislation approved by the US Congress, the so-called Kerry-Lugar bill, became more pronounced on Wednesday after the army’s top commanders, through a carefully drafted press statement, expressed their ‘serious concerns’ on some of the clauses of the bill that they believe would affect ‘national security’.

At the same time they asked the government to build a national response on the controversial bill through a debate in the parliament.

Unlike a benign two-line statement that is usually issued after most of the corps commanders’ meetings, the one released to the media on Wednesday left absolutely no doubt that the top brass was not only gravely disturbed over the conditions linked to the American aid legislation, they wanted to make their views public instead of just communicating them to the government through a formal channel.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 08 Oct 2009 09:15

Afghan War Debate Now Leans to Focus on Al Qaeda

President Obama’s national security team is moving to reframe its war strategy by emphasizing the campaign against Al Qaeda in Pakistan while arguing that the Taliban in Afghanistan do not pose a direct threat to the United States, officials said Wednesday.

In reviewing General McChrystal’s request, the White House is rethinking what was, just six months ago, a strategy that viewed Pakistan and Afghanistan as a single integrated problem. Now the discussions in the White House Situation Room, according to several administration officials and outsiders who have spoken with them, are focusing on related but separate strategies for fighting Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

SSridhar-saar

You should definitely read the entire article. Seems to be triggered by the latest meeting ombaba had. There seems to be a shift in "strategy" (its not Afpak anymore) but the article left my head scratching as to what exactly the "strategy" is. Dont know what to make of it.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 08 Oct 2009 09:21

From Stratfor.

Looks like McChrystal wants to stay, Jones wants to pull out.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 08 Oct 2009 09:26

Aww, poor PakShaitan, they want more "trust" - they're not feeling loved enuf

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091008/ts_ ... kistan_usa

atma · Post by **atma** » 08 Oct 2009 09:58

Pakis have perfected the art of "Beggars can be choosers"!

[ISLAMABAD: The military-government differences on the conditions attached to an aid legislation approved by the US Congress, the so-called Kerry-Lugar bill, became more pronounced on Wednesday after the army’s top commanders, through a carefully drafted press statement, expressed their ‘serious concerns’ on some of the clauses of the bill that they believe would affect ‘national security’.

At the same time they asked the government to build a national response on the controversial bill through a debate in the parliament.

And they want drones too! Next they will demand conjugal rights with Michelle Obama for Zardari and the Oval office for Kiyani.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 08 Oct 2009 10:14

Below is the link to the so called Kerry Lugar Bill aka:

Text of H.R. 3642: Enhanced Partnership with Pakistan Act of 2009

You can search for the words: Nuclear, Balochistan, Quetta, Intelligence, Lashkar, Jaish

Sec 203 and 302 are of particular interests

Overall, IMO, all the ro-dho in Pak is just the special affects. There is nothing humiliating in this bill that should make a whore nation like Pakistan to worry about so-virginity. It has been phucked hi and dry in a much horrible manner earlier by their own tinpots besides others.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 08 Oct 2009 10:59

SSridhar wrote:They will be helped by the PA to gain power through an interim election after defeating the PPP in the Parliament. As a quid-pro-quo, PML-N will ask the US for re-drafting the Bill. This is the likely scenario to emerge. Things could move rapidly in the next few days.

Much as I like to see the Pakistan going thru the similar times as it has seen in the recent past (last 1-2 year), there is not much in bill itself. May be ganja can use the rhetoric to gain more leverage over PPP but that beats the common sense understanding of the limitations of Nawaz per his "deal." He needs to do certain things for a while just to remain viable and IMO, this is all part of that.

But if things were to escalate, pop corn is ready. People will blame US, animosity with US will increase, Taliban will gain morale and will put up better fight.

We can continue to stay vigilant and once in a while kill some target of opportunity.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 08 Oct 2009 11:01

Pakistan wants US 'trust,' drones, market access
08 Oct 2009 03:12:36 GMT
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N07486496.htm

Democratic Representative Gary Ackerman, who chairs the House of Representatives foreign affairs subcommittee on the Middle East and South Asia, responded after Pakistan's army said it had concerns about the aid bill and opposition politicians called it humiliating.

"If the people of Pakistan really don't want our assistance ... if, after so much effort and sacrifice by our two countries working together, they still don't even believe that we wish them well -- and, worse, are prepared to say so only days after the United States Congress made an unprecedented commitment of long-term assistance, then I suppose we need to face the truth sooner than later," Ackerman said in a statement.
...
The U.S. bill does not place conditions on the development aid, but stipulates that military aid will cease if Pakistan does not help fight "terrorists," including Taliban and al Qaeda members taking sanctuary on the Afghan border. It also seeks Pakistani help to dismantle nuclear supplier networks.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 08 Oct 2009 11:15

Avinash R wrote:Pakistan wants US 'trust,' drones, market access

Serious question to the gurus. Pakistan is raising huge ruckus at all levels for drones. A convenient explanation is that they want the drones so they can carry out attacks (and not let US affect paki so-virginity). But the hullabaloo for drones is much greater than that. It even exceeds the noises made for F-solahs (where everyone from the janitor to Mushy was trying to position it as the "litmus test" for massa's willingness to support the pakis in the long run).

Why so much noise for the drones ?

arun · Post by **arun** » 08 Oct 2009 11:33

X Posted with a hat tip to Rangudu.

Excerpts from transcripts of PBS interview of David Ignatius of the Washington Post and Christine Fair {formerly? Rand}of Georgetown University and likely next US State Department Deputy Assistant Secretary for South Asia :

I'm rather dismayed by is that we're all captivated by the successes that the Pakistanis have made in dealing with the so-called Pakistan Taliban, but with respect to the effort in Afghanistan, the Afghan Taliban -- we're talking about Mullah Omar, for example -- remains very much safe in the sanctuaries in Pakistan. And the terrorist groups that attacked India -- like Lashkar-e-Taiba -- of course, also remain free to roam around Pakistan.

If you actually list out who the guys are that we think are enemy combatants and who the Pakistanis think are enemy combatants, overall, it's actually very small.

In fact, some of the most vicious supporters of suicide terrorism in Afghanistan are actually allies of the Pakistani state.

ISI officials, when you talk to them, deny that they're in direct contact with these insurgent groups, but they don't deny that they have intelligence links, they have their sources in these groups.

The reality is that these groups were, in many cases, created in part by the Pakistani intelligence service. I mean, that's why we have to take their statements on this a little skeptically. These groups are their creation, and they've used them for their own security purposes now for several decades.

I think Pakistan's become very -- it's developed a sense of entitlement to our assistance. And so the very fact that eight years into this we're really fundamentally trying to alter the way in which we do business is very disconcerting for the Pakistanis.

Read it all:

Pakistan's Role in Fighting Terror Under Review

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 08 Oct 2009 11:44

Anujan wrote: Serious question to the gurus. Pakistan is raising huge ruckus at all levels for drones. A convenient explanation is that they want the drones so they can carry out attacks (and not let US affect paki so-virginity). But the hullabaloo for drones is much greater than that. It even exceeds the noises made for F-solahs (where everyone from the janitor to Mushy was trying to position it as the "litmus test" for massa's willingness to support the pakis in the long run).

Why so much noise for the drones ?

Perhaps they're facing pressure from the Taller-than-the-mountains crowd to get their hands on one.
1. Claim a drone got shot down or hit by a wild boar on the runway.
2. Ship it intact to China
3. ???
4. Profit!

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 08 Oct 2009 11:53

Anujan wrote:Why so much noise for the drones ?

Anujan ji, that question puzzled me too.

1. IMO, Knowing very well that US will never share that technology with Pak, they still make this demand. It is a tacit way of saying that it is equally impossible for Pakistan to track all terrorists and there by expressing inability (deliberate) to shut down the sanctuaries.

Second reason could be to side track the debate about the the drone usage killing Pakiban and innocent civilians within Pakistan and therefore impinging on the so-virginity. It is a very effective nullifier to common abdul that never mind our people are getting killed, but one day we will also get this technology too (Allah knows whom are they going to use it on).

Third (which runs counter to 1 and highly improbable) being that they already have them and are using them to kill Pakiban and civilians to an extent. This demand will put the blame on US and claims that they don't have it

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 08 Oct 2009 11:57

Anujan wrote:
Avinash R wrote:Pakistan wants US 'trust,' drones, market access
Serious question to the gurus. Pakistan is raising huge ruckus at all levels for drones. A convenient explanation is that they want the drones so they can carry out attacks (and not let US affect paki so-virginity). But the hullabaloo for drones is much greater than that. It even exceeds the noises made for F-solahs (where everyone from the janitor to Mushy was trying to position it as the "litmus test" for massa's willingness to support the pakis in the long run).

Why so much noise for the drones ?

Not a guru, but as has happened in the past, pakistan has always used western military tech to target india. Nothing suggests this time it will be different.

If they are given the drones, they will be used against india to select thinly guarded routes for terrorist infiltration during 'peace' times and during war most likely to target high value military and political targets.

And pakistan wants not just the drones but also the technology to be transferred to it.

We have seen in the past how nuke technology was proliferated by pakistan worldwide to failed states. Again nothing suggests this wont be repeated.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Oct 2009 12:28

arun wrote:Pakistan's Role in Fighting Terror Under Review

I was somewhat surprised by Christine Fair's fair assessment.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Oct 2009 12:58

Musharraf has no indemnity from Red Corner Notices

will issue Red Warrants for the arrest and extradition to Pakistan of both figures.

Hope the same Rehman Malik remembers other pending RCNs.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Oct 2009 15:34

The latest outrage in Kabul again aimed at the Indian Embassy,is clearly another attack sponsored by the ISI.The time has long past for India to simply allow itself and its interests abroad to get raped ad infinitum.Dr.Singh must now gird his loins and prepare to do battle with Pak,at least diplomatically,if his administration is not to become the laughing stock of the global community.When certain elements within India are ready to condemn the IAF ,wanting to shoot back in self-defence,when the Naxalites shoot at their helos,how on earth are we going to defend the ordinary citizen from terror attacks both from within and without the country? The bullets are all in Dr.Singh's court.Please ACT!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oc ... an-embassy

Deadly bomb explodes near Indian embassy in KabulRush-hour blast on busy road in Afghan capital kills at least 12 people and injures dozens

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 08 Oct 2009 16:11

Rangudu wrote:Looks like Zardari and H.Haqqani have ambushed TSPA by the inclusion of Quetta/Muridke, X.Khan and civilian control of army clauses in the Kerry Lugar bill.

Now, we may think this is popcorn/samosa-chai time but think like a TSPA General for one second.

If you are a TSPA General and feel that your nuts are in a squeeze, what do you do?

First you "test" some repainted Chinese missiles...

But if the squeezing pressure is too much, what more does your limited IQ tell you to do?

Does anyone remember the intense pressure on TSPA to take out Talipaki havens in North and South Waziristan last fall? All that pressure stopped in late November, didn't it?

Blast near Indian embassy in Kabul, 12 dead

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Oct 2009 20:09

Anujan wrote:You should definitely read the entire article. Seems to be triggered by the latest meeting ombaba had. There seems to be a shift in "strategy" (its not Afpak anymore) but the article left my head scratching as to what exactly the "strategy" is. Dont know what to make of it.

Just read it. The US Admin is pulling in different directions, which is a normal thing in any administration. But, it appears that Obama is unable to make up his mind. Review after review is going on since March. It appears that the only way for the US to cut the losses and exit honourably from Afghanistan, which is what it wants to do in the shortest timeframe, is to re-engage the Taliban and make the Pakistanis responsible for the 'good behaviour' of the Taliban because the PA has 'successfully tackled' the Taliban in Swat etc. The PA game plan seems to be paying off. They attacked some Taliban, suffered some casualties, inflicted something on the Taliban, caused huge misery for the population, all in the way of 'jihad fi Sabilillah'. What are a few thousand lives lost if Pakistan can regain Strategic Depth and live to attack kufr India once again ?

This NYT article refers to the Administration's distinction between Al Qaeda & Taliban. They are even talking of compromising with the Taliban, Haqqani and Hekmatyar. Recent utterances from US commanders about the need to be aware of the Pakistani 'sensitivity' to Indian presence in Afghanistan, as well as the attempt at distinctions being made between Taliban and Al Qaeda etc. are pointers to what could be in store for India. The Pakistanis played it smart on K-L Bill. They kept quiet knowing that voicing strong opinion earlier would dilute their case. They have unanimously and suddenly voiced their opposition which seems to have caught the Americans by surprise. May be, the administration itself helped the Pakistanis play the game. Anyway, this will also have its impact in the still evolving strategy.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 08 Oct 2009 20:21

SSridhar wrote: Just read it. The US Admin is pulling in different directions, which is a normal thing in any administration. But, it appears that Obama is unable to make up his mind. Review after review is going on since March. It appears that the only way for the US to cut the losses and exit honourably from Afghanistan, which is what it wants to do in the shortest timeframe, is to re-engage the Taliban and make the Pakistanis responsible for the 'good behaviour' of the Taliban because the PA has 'successfully tackled' the Taliban in Swat etc. The PA game plan seems to be paying off. They attacked some Taliban, suffered some casualties, inflicted something on the Taliban, caused huge misery for the population, all in the way of 'jihad fi Sabilillah'. What are a few thousand lives lost if Pakistan can regain Strategic Depth and live to attack kufr India once again ?
.......<SNIP>

Yup, the stratfor video I post also says the same thing. There are three different camps in administration, so looks like Obama is actually not sure what he wants to do. Gen James Jones wants to withdraw as the job they intended to do in A'stan has been accomplished.