Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 08 Oct 2009 22:14

The job they set out to do was to do to OBL what they did to saddam.
Now unless proven otherwise, OBL has departed long long ago. The US is not going to bite the bullet and take on pakistan or the ISI head on much as we would like them to. They however fear, that leaving the ISI and the huge jehadi network intact will cause the jihadi problem to keep on surfacing should they depart afpak.

The cunning yindoos are keeping mum and taking blow after blow, now where does the jihadi ire get directed at?
1. At the NATO forces, as demonstrated by the recent attack where 8 US soldiers were killed in a remote outpost.
2. Kashmir. Other than Christine Fair, none NONE of the US analysts showed any sympathy to India for pakistan continuing to keep its kashmir jihadists intact.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 08 Oct 2009 22:16

Pakistan just got upgraded from a one off whore to a kept mistress by the kerry lugar bill. What with a 5 year payoff for services to be rendered.

WRT Pakistan, THAT is progress

The 51st state.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 08 Oct 2009 22:33

Gagan wrote:Pakistan just got upgraded from a one off whore to a kept mistress by the kerry lugar bill. What with a 5 year payoff for services to be rendered.

WRT Pakistan, THAT is progress

The 51st state.

Hmm , its not the state but short term admittance in the Harem of Great Khan.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 09 Oct 2009 00:17

Assuming a country of 170 million people, $7.5 billion aid over 5 years ($1.5 Billion/yr) and full distribution of aid as intended, my calculation says that an average Pakistani’s H&D has been sold to the great Khan for a measly amount of $8.82 per year. Now we all know that at least 50% of aid amount will end up in Switzerland. Thus it is sadly noted that the going price for an average Pakistani is a mere $4.41 per year.

Not a bad bargain for Samuddin.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 09 Oct 2009 01:49

SSridhar wrote: We can expect massive protests if Obama signs the bill and PPP will have to count its days in power. That's where the recent secret meeting between Kiyani and Shahbaz Sharif assumes significance. Anyhow, PML-N and Nawaz Sharif are far more popular than PPP and Zardari today. They will be helped by the PA to gain power through an interim election after defeating the PPP in the Parliament. As a quid-pro-quo, PML-N will ask the US for re-drafting the Bill. This is the likely scenario to emerge. Things could move rapidly in the next few days.

I'm not sure about there being any future for a Nawaz-TSPA partnership. Nawaz Sharif, despite the Islampasand incarnation he has adopted since returning from KSA, is despised by the TSPA institutionally. Many Corpse Commandos blame him for "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in Kargil" (in the TSPA's auto-mythology of Kargil war history, they were on the verge of humbling the Indians when Nawaz buckled to US pressure and agreed to a withdrawal). That puts the ZAB curse on him... something that became aggravated when he attempted that stunt of preventing Mush's airplane from landing. Also, as a leader with a genuine popular following of his own (unlike either Zardari or Gilani), Nawaz is too apt to succumb to the temptations of demagoguery, and try to cut deals with the Americans to clip the TSPA's wings even further.

The thing about the K-L bill is, it makes plain and unmistakable a major shift in US policy towards Pakistan: the 2007-08 decision that the US now prefers to deal with a civilian government, and especially to have a civilian government control the purse-strings of American largesse towards Pakistan. That is what came out wide in the open with the K-L rider regarding "civilian control over the military" etc.

On Sep 12 2001, the Americans were in fact gratified to see a military man in power in Islamabad. Under Colin Powell's guidance they put all their eggs in the Mushy basket. They were relieved to be dealing directly with the TSPA... who, as everyone knows, are the people who can get things done in Pakistan. So the Americans anticipated a no-bull$hit arrangement: pay the TSPA, and the TSPA would do America's work. No mucking about with civilian intermediaries.

7 years and many billions of dollars later, the Americans found that it wasn't working out as planned. The TSPA had supplied the occasional Al-Qaeda "#3" to avoid embarrassing questions... but they had also allowed the leadership of the Taliban, as well as the International Islamic Front (IIF), to live in Pakistan under their protection and plan jihadi attacks all around the world. Madrid, London, Indonesia, Iraq, and a sustained campaign against Karzai-ruled Afghanistan as well. Whenever pressure was applied to the TSPA to do something about the Afghan ops carried out by the Taliban based in Pakistan, ISI would sponsor a terrorist atrocity in India, and TSPA would cite the fear of Indian retaliation as an excuse not to deploy its forces to the Afghan border.

Finally even the Americans realized this was not working. So, under Condoleezza Rice, they gradually shifted their policy. With the drone attacks they took direct control of targeted military operations against IIF and Taliban leadership living on Pakistani soil. Then, after more failed attempts to get the TSPA to conduct ops in FATA/NWFP and Swat, they dumped Musharraf and decided instead to back a civilian government.

The Americans' plan was initially to bring back BB. The TSPA/ISI promptly got her killed. So instead the Americans settled for a Zardari-led civilian government, with a Groper Gilani thrown in so that too much power did not get concentrated into the hands of any one civilian individual. The Americans now hoped to ensure the Pakistanis' cooperation by triangulating their influence over the three centers of power... Gilani, Zardari and TSPA... towards a favourable resultant.

What has in fact happened is that Gilani has become marginalized. Zardari is hedging with the Chinese... but this isn't a problem for the Americans under Obama who are all too happy to accommodate Chinese concerns. But TSPA, on the other hand, has suffered insult after injury.

TSPA under Musharraf had worked out a neat double game where they appeared to GUBO, hosted the IIF, backed the Taliban, and collected American aid (including military aid to threaten India with). Now, not only had Musharraf been removed from power and replaced with a civilian... but drone attacks were regularly taking out precious ISI assets, and TSPA itself was coming under increasing pressure to take the field against the Pakiban in Swat and Waziristan.

Kiyani and Shuja Ahmed Pasha had been picked to lead TSPA and ISI for their apparent willingness to GUBO... but the jhapads their institutions were receiving became too much even for them to tolerate. In a desperate attempt to regain the initiative they sponsored the July '08 Kabul bombing of the Indian embassy, and then the Mumbai attacks of Nov 26. Nothing worked.

Ultimately they had to launch the Swat nautanki of May '09. Civilians were slaughtered, etc. etc. Amid much smoke and fire, the TSPA cut deals with the Pakiban to melt away and make themselves scarce. Ultimately the only real damage to the Pakiban was the killing of Baitullah by an American Predator, which the TSPA pretended to be happy about.

What is the TSPA/ISI's biggest strategic imperative? To make sure that the new American approach... preferring a civilian govt. in Pakistan, insisting on civilian control of US Aid disbursement in Pakistan... must fail.

That's why we've seen, increasingly, a rash of jihadi terror scares in the West (more than at any time since 2005-06, is my sense). If another terrorist attack happened on US soil, after all, it would prove that the new US policy of insisting on civilian rule in Pakistan was a failure.

That's why we've also seen the Taliban offensives against ISAF in Afghanistan ratchet up to more deadly levels (for NATO/US troops) than ever before. Of course, in the process a lot more Taliban jihadis must also be getting killed. Ayesha Siddiqa and others have hinted where manpower for the amped-up Taliban jihad in Afghanistan is coming from... not Pashtuns, who could be easily swayed to join Hakeemullah and turn on Islamabad... but south Punjabi jihadis from Muridke and Bahwalpur. That is the reason why the US is collaborating with India in bringing pressure on Pakistan to crack down on Hafeez Saeed, and Hafeez Saeed is being protected more fiercely than ever by the TSPA and ISI... they need him to mentor and guide jihadis for massive infilitration into Afghanistan.

Meanwhile, the Pashtuns who have surrendered to the TSPA in Swat, are not being sent back into Afghanistan to fight NATO/ISAF... they are being pushed into Kashmir instead! Idhar ka udhar, udhar ka idhar!

And of course, TSPA's rage and desperation against the new American policy, account for the bomb blast outside the Indian Embassy in Kabul today. It will surely account for more, and worse attacks against India to materialize in the weeks and months to come.

If K-L is signed by Obama, I predict the TSPA will go all out in pursuit of its three objectives, which are:

1) Make the Americans reconcile to an army-ruled Pakistan, by forcing them to give up on a civilian-ruled Pakistan as a failed experiment. Achieved by staging terrorist-attack scares (if not actual attacks) in Western countries, and by provoking hostilities with India so as to bring the civilian govt. of Pak firmly under TSPA control.

2) Make the Americans draw down from Afghanistan, co-opting the TSPA and its "moderate Talib" proxies as major partners on the ground in effecting control over Afghanistan... thereby regaining the Strategic Depth lost in October 2001. Already Joe Biden and James Jones are in favour of this. TSPA will try to achieve this objective by launching large offensives in Afghanistan that claim NATO and US lives, carried out by ISI's Taliban proxies (Haqqani etc.) as well as Punjabi Tanzeems.

3) To whatever extent possible, while a civilian regime is still in power, make hay while the sun shines i.e. garner political support from the Americans against India in Kashmir. Use the survival of the civilian regime in Islamabad as a hostage to demand that America lean on the Indians, resolve the "outstanding dispute", calm the "nuclear flashpoint", etc. etc.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Oct 2009 01:57

Can you put all that on slides?

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 09 Oct 2009 02:00

^^
Very good analysis Rudradev ji.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 Oct 2009 02:11

Rudradev wrote:
On Sep 12 2001, the Americans were in fact gratified to see a military man in power in Islamabad.

AFter 1998 June the US mil saw instability inside TSPA. They approved the appointment of Mushy as COAS in TSPA

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 09 Oct 2009 02:42

http://www.thefrontierpost.com/images/d ... artoon.jpg

And game begins

Taliban say they’re no threat to other countries
Afghanistan’s insurgent Taliban marked the eighth anniversary of the US invasion on Thursday saying that they have no “agenda” to harm other countries but would continue fighting as long as America and its allies remain in the troubled nation. The Taliban insistence that it would pose no threat to other countries appeared aimed at countering suspicions that the Islamist movement would support al-Qaida’s global jihad if they returned to power. Supporters of the war fear that al-Qaida would regain its once-dominant position in Afghanistan if the Taliban topple the US-backed Afghan government. In an Internet statement on Thursday obtained by the SITE Institute, a US group that monitors terror messages, the Taliban said their goal was “independence and establishment of an Islamic system.” “We did not have any agenda to harm other countries including Europe, nor we have such agenda today,” the group said. “Still, if you want to turn the country of the proud and pious Afghans into a colony, then know that we have an unwavering determination and have braced for a prolonged war.” The statement came on the anniversary of the US invasion that ousted the Taliban for harboring al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... -countries

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 09 Oct 2009 06:16

Surrendered sovereignty

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 09 Oct 2009 06:34

TFT is out.

Bickering over the bill

One of the things about the Kerry-Lugar Bill that sticks in the khakis’ throats has to do with military intervention in politics. The Bill decrees that assessments will be made on a six monthly basis to determine if the military is impinging on civilians. The khakis say this point has been inserted at the behest of Hubby and his minions. The bickering over the bill is surprising since all the discussion has been copied to the khakis on a regular basis over the last few months. That they’ve now decided to come out against it speaks of sinister motives. Also, as usual, the khakis are playing all sides to retain their stranglehold on power and resources in Pakistan. While the top man lays into the Kerry Lugar Bill to stir up a storm in Pakistan, with the aim of weakening the government and strengthening his own hand, he’s been at pains to communicate privately with his American counterpart to assure him that he doesn’t really mean it. Our mole reports that the khaki has had a congenial telecon with his American counterpart to put him at ease and to assure him that the opposition to the Bill comes from the “people” and not from the khakis. Clearly, Mush’s successors are continuing with his policy of double dealing both at home and abroad.

Inside job

The latest suicide attack on the UN offices in Isloo had all the hallmarks of those new wave suicide bombings that have also gripped Saudi Arabia. Prince Muhammad, a member of the House of Saud who helps rehabilitate reformed terrorists, was recently the object of just such an attack. The bomber got through the tight security cordon at the prince’s palace in Riyadh because the bomb had been inserted in his rectum. Investigators believe the UN bomber also carried the bomb in his innards. It was a classic “inside job”.

Dynastic leaders

True to tradition, another scion is being readied to take her place in the firmament of young dynastic leaders. Yes, it’s a young lady, not a young man, and she belongs to a very prominent Punjabi political family known for its conservatism. So this is a departure from tradition but the woman is capable and charismatic. The first step in her grooming has begun with public speaking lessons at her home in Raiwind. They say she has been following young Billoo Bhutto’s oratory on You-tube and is impressed with the progress he has made. Good luck to this new generation of would-be politicos. God knows they’ll need it.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 09 Oct 2009 07:08

TSP's adopted parents are bringing out the begging bowl.

Saudis ask for aid if world cuts dependence on oil

archan · Post by **archan** » 09 Oct 2009 07:22

vera_k wrote:TSP's adopted parents are bringing out the begging bowl.

Saudis ask for aid if world cuts dependence on oil

Something tells me that that civilization is in for one helluva shock if the world figures out alternative sources of energy 50-100 years from now. They would actually have to work hard for the money like the rest of the world but they would have lost the genetic codes to work hard by then.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 09 Oct 2009 07:29

archan wrote:Something tells me that that civilization is in for one helluva shock if the world figures out alternative sources of energy 50-100 years from now. They would actually have to work hard for the money like the rest of the world but they would have lost the genetic codes to work hard by then.

They have a gameplan too. The plan is to have enough numbers of believers by then to leverage baksheesh off the rest of the world to sustain themselves. If they have enough believing voters, it will be hard to say no to food aid etc to these otherwise wastelands.

KSA has sowed its ideological poison with a vengeance far and wide, working to a plan or so it seems. Places like Indonesia and Malaysia (heck even BD and parts of India) that were far more easygoing and peaceful a generation ago (hardly any burqas then) are a very different place today and I shudder to think that a generation down, the hardcore believers may have preponderence.

Malayappan · Post by **Malayappan** » 09 Oct 2009 07:39

vera_k wrote:TSP's adopted parents are bringing out the begging bowl.

Saudis ask for aid if world cuts dependence on oil

Interesting possibilities, but should not read much into it! It is just psyops aimed at sustaining demand for oil and derailing the current exercise. Will be interesting to see how the Greens / Left/ Pinkos of the West handle this - give in like the US did on the Carbon Tax issue or...

Anyway off topic! Let us not digress from paki bashing!

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 09 Oct 2009 08:23

Nutty nation has become increasing nuttier since Shrill tok over..
US mly aircraft fly from Benazir Int'l Airport

Islamabad - The planes in the picture have been spotted frequently flying out of Benazir International Airport, Islamabad (BIAI). These are star lifters, heavy lift aircraft of the US army and air force.
The question is why are they flying in and out of Islamabad on a regular basis? What are they transporting? Normally these planes are used for large troop movements and heavy equipment lift. When contacted the CAA was unable to respond and the military was unavailable. Is any one keeping a check on what exactly the US is up to in the environs of the Capital and GHQ?

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 09 Oct 2009 08:27

There was a report in the paki press on how Obama had delayed the signing of the Ky-Gel bill because of TSP's objections..

While congress is in session, a bill automatically becomes law if the president doesn't sign it.

Asif told no chance of conditionalities’ removal

ISLAMABAD - US Ambassador Anne W. Patterson Thursday called on President Asif Ali Zardari to discuss the situation emerging after Pakistan army, too, had expressed serious concerns along with others on the language and conditionalities of the Kerry Lugar bill.
The President’s spokesman confirmed the meeting between his boss and the US envoy, but termed it as part of the routine meetings.
However, sources told TheNation, that President Zardari, through Ambassador Patterson, has asked the US government to revise atleast the language of the legislation in order to appease the growing critics of the Kerry Lugar bill in Pakistan.
But, the sources added, the American envoy told President Zardari that there was least likelihood of President Obama returning, rather than signing the bill, for revision. “She has apprised the President of the American opposition, as well, to the bill that could exploit the situation once it was sent back by Obama for revision,” the sources added.

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 09 Oct 2009 08:48

http://blog.dawn.com:91/dblog/2009/10/0 ... a-history/

This more or less is the norm with most countries President Zardari has decorated as ‘Friends of Democratic Pakistan’. Those outside the FoDP have enacted their own rules. Take Indonesia, for instance. Jakarta has scrapped all tourist visa for Pakistanis applying to visit Indonesia from a third country where they may be residing for a few months. An applicant needs a personal guarantor who must go in person to the ministry concerned in Jakarta to explain why he/she may be inviting a Pakistani to Indonesia. The same guarantor is then required to be present at the port of arrival. Only Pakistani and Iraqi nationals are extended this special ‘courtesy’ by the brotherly Muslim nation. The rest can come and go as they please. Cambodia also requires a personal guarantor for visiting Pakistanis.

Here, certain other oddities also come to mind: Brotherly Islamic countries like Kuwait, for instance, can impose an extended, complete ban on visa to Pakistanis from time to time. Holland has followed suit of late. The Islamic Republic of Iran can require you to know your azaan, prayer and a few compulsory ablutionary rituals, the significance of certain suras and terms used in the Quran, etc. A visa officer was furious when a friend sought a tourist visa, and was told that Iran had no night clubs so they didn’t want any dirty tourists going there. The ‘Country of the Imam of the Time’ only accepts God-fearing, pious pilgrims to its many shrines. Syrians, on the other hand, can be equally furious if you ask for a tourist map or information. ‘Only Zionist terrorists require a map of Syria!’ you can well be told. China, with whom our friendship runs deeper than the Indian Ocean and higher than the Himalayas, has an equally menacing visa regime for the increasingly Muslim Pakistanis.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Oct 2009 08:51

Vivek_A wrote:The question is why are they flying in and out of Islamabad on a regular basis? What are they transporting? Normally these planes are used for large troop movements and heavy equipment lift.

Oh. . .they are bringing in all the men and material needed to build the new 1.2 B $ American spy & communication complex that is coming up in Islamabad. What else ?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 09 Oct 2009 08:55

Are there any links etc wherefrom moi can track (and report here) on a regular basis TSP's forex and external balances position? Should give some inkling as to their despo-ration levels.
TIA.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 09 Oct 2009 09:13

^^^^^

Donno how reliable these figures are, but from the horse's mouth........
http://www.sbp.org.pk/ecodata/index2.asp
Scroll down to see latest figures

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 09 Oct 2009 09:43

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Oct 2009 11:50

From recent events and revelations,it appears that a "Faustian" deal has been made between the Yanquis and the ungodly pigsty of the TSP.That the rent-by-the-hour swine have agreed to allowing the US to set up massive intel/commns. bases in Pak on a permanent basis.The footprint of the US in the region is to be cemented in the territory of Pak for several reasons and at an annual price of several billions to the Paki military in this unholy Islamabad concordat.

Under these clandestine agreements,Pak will get the following.

1.Military insurance from the US against India-that the USA will prevent India from ever resorting to military strikes to halt Paki terror and if India does strike,will use its military and economic muscle to halt India.

2.That it will force India (willingly or unwillingly) to engage/come to terms with Pak over Kashmir.Pak will be allowed to redeploy its "good Taliban" mercenaries for waging war with India in Kashmir.

3.Continued regular military supplies and economic aid for Pak regardless of any Paki terror against India,on the assumption that the terror strikes are not too outrageous to attract retaliatory Indian military strikes.The US will provide Pak with its much wanted UCAVs (drones)to be used against India.

4.That Pak's nuclear deterrent will remain untouched by the US and that it can build up its strategic deterrent and missile delivery systems against India from any source,the US will turn its proverbial blind eye as it has done in the past.India will be put by the US under a more restrictive nuclear regime using the N-deal as leverage.Pak will also get a similar deal for providing it with civilian N-tech and fuel.The US will in effect "equate" Paki and Indian N-forces,so that they can deal with China at a different level.

5.That the Paki military will be allowed to kick out the civilian govt. of the day in Islamabad at a convenient time,or replace its head (the president) through political conspiracies.This being essential for the Paki military to rule the roost and allow the US's strategic plans to achieve their goals.

6.That the Paki led "Good" Taliban will be allowed to share power in Afghanistan at the very least,with a pliable Afghan figurehead of a leader-not Karzai.Pak will be given trusteeship over parts of Afghanistan for achieving its strategic depth.

In order for this to happen,Pak on its side has agreed to the following.

1.Pak will allow the US unfettered use of Paki territory for military use against the "Bad Taliban",those Afghan forces who are anti-US and the remnants of Al Qaeda and OBL.Pak as said before can use Taliban forces against India in J&K.Pak will also allow the USN visiting base/logistic facilities during any crisis with Iran.

2.The US will also be allowed to build permament intel and commns. bases on Paki soil,which the US will use for monitoring and conducting military ops in the Indian Sub-Continent theatre.Diego Garcia is just too far away from the battlefield and Sri Lanka has given the US the upturned finger.

3.Pak will keep its nuclear capabilities but will have to close down its proliferation industry,especially cutting all clandestine N-exports to Iran and other Muslim states,except the Saudis.AQK and his network to be effectively neutered.There will be fundamentalist elements in the ISI who will be unhappy at this but the green light to go at India will keep them satisfied.

4.Pak will convince the "good Taliban" to reduce their attacks against US forces in Aghanistan,allowing the US to withdraw in a reasonable period of time in exchange for power sharing in Kabul.Those Taliban forces who resist will be eliminated with clandestine Paki help.The ISI/CIA will control the poppy crop.

5.Pak will then allow a pipeline to be built through Af-Pak to deliver Caspian/Kazakh petro products at Gwadar on the Arabian Sea.Pak will be given a cut from this revenue to keep the pockets of its crore commanders wealthy for generations.

6.Pak military forces will be available to the US for use in trouble spots in Africa/other Muslim countries,under the UN's banner,so that the US can deploy its forces to the key conflict areas like Afghanistan and Iraq.

7.Pak will allow the US-as it has been doing,to clandestinely use its territory in the west for inflitrating special forces and agents into Iran to further destabilise the Ahmed-in-a-jacket regime and the Iranian Revolution,just as governments of the former Warsaw Pact were overthrown.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 09 Oct 2009 11:52

archan wrote:
vera_k wrote:TSP's adopted parents are bringing out the begging bowl.

Saudis ask for aid if world cuts dependence on oil
Something tells me that that civilization is in for one helluva shock if the world figures out alternative sources of energy 50-100 years from now. They would actually have to work hard for the money like the rest of the world but they would have lost the genetic codes to work hard by then.

Technology is already there, just use nuclear power to generate electricity to charge the batteries of the electric cars. World should have done this decades ago, still should do it.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Oct 2009 12:17

Watch the scenario unfold clause by clause,as mentioned in my earlier post.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 866894.ece#

Barack Obama: Taleban can be involved in Afghanistan future'

Excerpts:
President Obama is prepared to accept some Taleban involvement in Afghanistan’s political future and is unlikely to favour a large influx of new American troops being demanded by his ground commander, a senior official said last night.

Mr Obama appears to have been swayed in recent days by arguments from some advisers, led by Vice-President Joe Biden, that the Taleban do not pose a direct threat to the US and that there should be greater focus on tackling al-Qaeda inside Pakistan.

Therefore,the message is clear.Shore up the "whore",Pakistan,at any cost so that the US's rent-boy Pak,looks after its interests in the region.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 09 Oct 2009 12:56

^^ A novel way to fool American people subtly conveying them we have lost. He he, USA will be a laughing stock if they cannot win an assymetric warfare (they have not won it in past , Vietnam, Somalia, in Iraq they struggled until they got support from Arab militia and internal rift) and I dont believe they will win in Afghanistan either. This tells some major weakness about American military, inability to operate in a complex situation. The message of day is constantly thinking, elusive enemy wins. Maoists use same tactics.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Oct 2009 13:00

Philip, excellent post.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Oct 2009 13:45

Rudradev, fine analysis. I agree with most of it. However, I differ from your assessment on the rift between the PA and Nawaz. The PA is ideologically closer to PML-N which is a closet-Taliban anyway. The PA's grudge against Nawaz Sharif is not as deep and widespread as it is against the Bhutto clan. But, the PA has no other alternative to Nawaz for it itself does not want to assume power now and there is no other more popular person or party than Nawaz and his PML-N. The PA and Zardari do not see eye-to-eye on anything and Gilani has been acting as the bridge between the Supreme Commander and his COAS. The PA itself cannot usurp power now, it being on a rehabilitation programme after the Musharraf mis-rule. So, it has to have a proxy and obviously Gilani cannot fill that position so long as Zardari remains President. Zardari is categorical he will remain both as President of Pakistan and Co-Chairman of PPP. That was why the PA did some kite-flying recently through its campaign of 'Minus-One Formula', after trying to damage Zardari's reputation as much as possible (not that it requires much effort to do that anyway). Zardari effectively outmanouevred it through his party and managed to weather the storm. OTOH, Kiyani has been getting closer to Nawaz as was evident in the restoration of CJP when he had to intervene. The US itself has considerably toned down its opposition to Nawaz. For the PA, there is simply not much choice, as the spectre of a mid-term election looms large.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 09 Oct 2009 14:00

AOA, finally a vacum bulb bursts with significance, from the land of pure where the Kabul and Mumbai attacks were planned, wehn can these be moved to Isloo , Multan, Lwhore, Bahwalpur and Mirpur.

41 killed, 100 injured in Peshawar bomb blast

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... st/527074/

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 09 Oct 2009 14:18

Let us look at the US strategic compulsions.

The War on Terror is getting too difficult to manage. Economically the US is not robust, the Americans are averse to losing their sons and all that and the western allies, apart from the UK, are merely engaging in a façade of unity! And the last thing that the American ego can accept is ‘another Vietnam’.

Therefore, Obama’s call to the Moslem nations that sounded more convincing to the Moslems since he is but half Moslem himself and Moslems pride themselves that once there is an iota of Muslimity in a person, he is as good as the real McCoy. That is why he sounds convincing over the Palestinian issue! His action in Iraq was cosmetic but welcomed. One wonders how much has changed in Iraq since the news media has gone cool out there. However, he does not have a free run. The ‘others’ allow him to appease the Moslems since it serves the purpose and yet where the chips are down, they are at it.

The US cannot do without Pakistan, if they have to solve Afghanistan. And it cannot do with India and China because of its market that can shore up its economic woes!!

The US is up a gum tree, so to say.

The military insurance that the US will give to Pakistan that the US will act against India in case of a military strike is farfetched. They can’t against Pakistan and to talk of acting against India! And India would hardly allow ‘good or bad Talibans’ to operate without appropriate action. Already the GOI is facing the heat over Maoists and to believe that such an emotive issue as ‘cross border terrorism’ will be condoned will be difficult to accept.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Oct 2009 14:33

The problem is that it is far easier for the US to deal with babu-mentality "Gandhian" India,still steeped in the legacy of kowtowing to the pale-face,than dealing with martial races like the ungodly across the border.Just look at the statements from the top.After 26/11,"who wants war with Pak?","..there has been no significant INCREASE in Chinese border incursions",etc.,etc.Our good doctor is now to enjoy a state banquet at the White House,Obama's first.What an honour! Heaps of grub,tea and sympathy,but no action against Pak.

If India is on the verge of taking military action against Pak,and the US threatens military and economic sanctions against us,what do you think will be the reaction of the current GOI? It is why the US has nodded to Pak that limited terrorist action,especially in "disputed" J&K is alright and acceptable,as it will continue to keep India diverted from other pressing global security matters,where it would rather deal one-to-one with China.Many of our worthy political elite will be pi**ing in their dhotis at the thought of the US contemplating sanctions against us.WE can make as much sound and fury as we want,score diplomatic victory after victory,but teaching Pak a military lesson is absolutely taboo.Remember how Clinton persuasively prevented ABV from crossing the lOC during Kargil?

More on the Peshawar car bomb.

Huge car bomb kills dozens in Peshawar
By Riaz Khan, Associated Press

A suicide car bomber detonated his vehicle along a road near a well-known market in Pakistan's northwest city of Peshawar today, killing 41 people and underscoring militants' ability to strike in major cities despite US-backed military offensives pressuring their networks.

The attack in the Khyber Bazaar area came as Pakistan's army prepares for another major operation in the al-Qa'ida and Taliban stronghold of South Waziristan tribal region. The militants have threatened bombings if the army doesn't back off, but the US has continued to prod Pakistan to take action against insurgents using its soil to fuel the insurgency in neighboring Afghanistan.

Television footage showed the charred skeleton of a bus flipped on its side in the middle of a major road. Twisted remains of a motorbike lay alongside the bus. A nearby vehicle was in flames.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 00103.html

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Oct 2009 15:30

The Nobel Peace Price winner, Barack Obama, will now have to live up to that glittering medal and will have to pursue different policies in AfPak. Military solutions to essentially military problems can be expected to take the backburner. What does it mean ? All the fine discussions that have been going on for sometime now here on this forum will make even more sense now. The 'good Taliban' will be shortly identified, Afghan power will be shared with them (or even handed over to them citing massive rigging by Hamid Karzai), PA will be tasked with 'managing' the Taliban, GoP will be asked to oversee developmental efforts in the eastern and southern & western areas of Afghanistan, Nawaz Sharif would be a more acceptable PM candidate in the changed context, India will be 'advised' to cut down provocative presence there which anyway will dwindle once the Taliban assume power and as a quid-pro-quo some economic carrot will be dangled in front of us which our economists will grab with glee, and India will be hit harder with terrorism which anyway Nobel Peace Prize Winner Obama will be least concerned with as have been his predecessors.

arun · Post by **arun** » 09 Oct 2009 16:23

X Posted.

Afghan officials claim Pakistani link for the bomb attack outside the Indian Embassy at Kabul yesterday. Once again the Pakistan based Haqqani faction of the Taliban which has close links to the ISI is implicated:

Posted on Thu, Oct. 08, 2009 06:46 PM

Pakistan-based group suspected in Indian Embassy bombing in Kabul

By SARAH DAVISON AND JONATHAN S. LANDAY
McClatchy Newspapers

Afghan officials suspect that the same Pakistan-based group that's blamed for a suicide attack on the Indian Embassy 16 months ago staged a car-bombing there Thursday that killed at least 17 people and wounded 76. ………..

Suspicions in Thursday's bombing focused on the Islamic extremist network led by Jalaluddin Haqqani.

Haqqani is a former anti-Soviet guerrilla commander who served as a minister in the Taliban regime, whose forces are fighting U.S. troops in eastern Afghanistan. He's thought to have ties to elements within Pakistan's premier intelligence agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence.

U.S. intelligence officials accused the Haqqani network, based in Pakistan's tribal region, of launching the 2008 attack on the Indian mission - which killed more than 60 people - in collusion with ISI officers, a charge that Islamabad denied. Pakistan also denied involvement in Thursday's attack. …………………..

The Afghan Interior Ministry said the Taliban had claimed responsibility for Thursday's attack, with Haqqani's network considered the most likely culprit. The Foreign Ministry contended that the bombing was "planned and implemented from outside Afghan borders," a charge that in the past has implied Pakistani involvement.

Blast walls erected after last year's attack contained the explosion, and no one died inside the mission or across the street at the Ministry of Interior. The 8:40 a.m. attack killed and wounded dozens of people on their way to work, however. ……………….

(Davison is a McClatchy Newspapers special correspondent. Landay reported from Washington.)

Mc Clatchy

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 09 Oct 2009 16:36

All in all, another bad day for Yindia.

Obama getting the peace prize raises the possibility of NATO fleeing afgn after declaring victory, essentially handing it over to TSP.

Wahan, the maoderers are sending a crystal clear message - that they have arms, intell, manpower, terrain and time on their side. Their successes against our elite units are no coincidence. They are striking at will and very deliberately at the hardest targets. Message is - soft targets ko kaun bachayega?

Yahan, GoI appears keen on celebrating the 'non-increase' in the level of chini intrusions.

Udhar, fake currency rackets, abductions into jihad slavery and religio-demographic transitions in sensitive parts of the country rear their heads.

Just then, whistle blower arrives pouring water (seemingly) on our deterrence dreams using the ultimate bums designed by man.

Can it get any worse? you bet, just watch this and other threads on BRF, not the news.

arun · Post by **arun** » 09 Oct 2009 16:42

No prizes for concluding that America’s favourite Rogue State is the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

At least one person in the US accepts that the US by providing aid to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is financing terrorism against India:

America's Favorite Rogue State

Gordon G. Chang, 10.09.09, 12:01 AM EDT

Is it time to cut off aid to Pakistan?

…………… in any event, it's time we stop funding terrorism against India. The United States, through its assistance programs, effectively enabled Pakistan's ISI to mastermind the Indian embassy bombing last July, and it's almost certain our money was used for the attack this week. At some point, we have to accept responsibility for the consequences of our decisions.

We can fight terrorism or we can support the Pakistani military. History says we cannot do both.

Gordon G. Chang is the author of The Coming Collapse of China. He writes a weekly column for Forbes.

Forbes

saip · Post by **saip** » 09 Oct 2009 17:53

Afghan officials claim Pakistani link for the bomb attack outside the Indian Embassy at Kabul yesterday. Once again the Pakistan based Haqqani faction of the Taliban which has close links to the ISI is implicated:

How long it will be before Pakis start accusing RAW of masterminding Peshawar blast? If Pakis start believing that RAW is capable of hitting back within 24 hours of any attack on indians, then, maybe - just maybe- we will see less no of attacks on India. This is just my dream.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 09 Oct 2009 17:54

We can fight terrorism or we can support the Pakistani military. History says we cannot do both.
Forbes

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Oct 2009 18:33

saip wrote:How long it will be before Pakis start accusing RAW of masterminding Peshawar blast? If Pakis start believing that RAW is capable of hitting back within 24 hours of any attack on indians, then, maybe - just maybe- we will see less no of attacks on India. This is just my dream.

Saip, I understand your noble thought. But, my fear is that a worse thing will be when we did not hit back but Pakistan still implicates us because of the SeS concession. We know that the Taliban violence and sectarian violence in Pakistan grew out of and are sustained by internal contradictions without any external stimulii and support. I mean that the Peshawar bomb would have gone off anyway without RAW taking any efforts at all. Pakistan is so messed up that nobody from outside need to do anything other than to just keep quiet and watch the fun from the ringside. However, the concern is that the SeS concession should not give a handle to Pakistan to beat us with. In the changed circumstances where Obama has just got the Nobel Peace Prize and will therefore be raring to test new peaceful solutions to resolving issues, what better country can he choose to target than the one that gave the world his mentor and guide Mahatma Gandhi ? Thus, he could exit Afghanistan without much further losses, appease an Islamic country namely Pakistan, and fix a dhimmi kufr India. Win-win on all fronts and who cares about Indian losses ?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Oct 2009 18:58

Selected NUGGETS from TFT

Musharraf and US killed Benazir!

Columnist Nazir Naji wrote in Jang that Musharraf and the US together killed Benazir in 2007. After the bomb attack on her in Karachi she sent Zardari to Washington to meet State Department official Richard Boucher and tell him that the security promised by the US was not given to her by Musharraf. Zardari called Boucher but Boucher feigned upset stomach and did not meet him. Musharraf and the US killed Benazir in Rawalpindi

Liaquat murdered for Objectives Resolution

Writing in Jang Dr Israr Ahmad stated that after Liaquat Ali Khan passed the Objectives Resolution in the parliament to make Pakistan an Islamic state international Zionists plotted his death and killed him in 1951. And then when their man General Ayub took over and got rid of parliament he was patted on the back by Washington.

‘I hate Americans!’

Famous chief reporter Ansar Abbasi wrote in Jang that once he met an American under secretary lady in Islamabad and told her, ‘We hate you Americans’; and that, ‘You are cruel (zalim), savage (wehshi) and merciless (bereham) and have no respect for human lives’. But he was grieved to find that she went back and misquoted him in The New York Times. { What more could she have said that amounted to a misquote. Just curious}

Hasan Nisar’s wisdom

Columnist Hasan Nisar in Jang: One blessing of loadshedding is that all mosque loudspeakers go dead too and one is saved from listening to the makruh (unholy) sounds that emanate from them.

Hamid Gul did the trick!

According to Khabrain a general who wished to remain anonymous said that in 1990 President Ghulam Ishaq Khan had just asked Ghulam Mustafa Jatoi to form government when ISI chief Hamid Gul rang up to say that the ISI wanted Nawaz Sharif as prime minister. President Khan changed policy and asked Nawaz Sharif instead. The president had thought that Gul was conveying the army’s message but when he discovered that it was Gul himself he later got rid of him as ISI chief.

More ‘Hamid-Gullianisms’

Ex-ISI chief Hamid Gul was quoted in Nawa-e-Waqt as saying that Indian investment in Afghanistan was against Pakistan. He said ex-army chief General Jehangir Karamat had studied at a Jewish university (Stanford) after his retirement. And that Holbrooke did not want democracy to flourish in Pakistan. He said Ahmad Shah Abdali was Pakistan’s hero.

In praise of Hafiz Said

Chief Editor Khushnood Ali Khan wrote in Jinnah that India was after Hafiz Said’s blood but so are CIA and Mossad because they are scared of the great Muslim warrior. The followers of Hafiz Said have always been the scourge of India which sees him in its nightmares. He is the father of thousands of martyrs. But Black Water is here to uproot Islam and Muslims.

Mastermind killer of Benazir

According to Khabrain the mastermind Punjabi terrorist who organised the killing of Benazir in Rawalpindi was Hasnain, a graduate of the madrassa of Akora Khattak after which he went to Miranshah for training in terrorism. A friend of his got killed in Lal Masjid operation after which he swore revenge {then he should have killed those who ordered Lal Majid operation by SSG, not BB.}and was used by Baitullah Mehsud. Qari Ismail of Akora Khattak told him that orders had come from on high (oopar sai) to kill Benazir.

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 09 Oct 2009 19:13

Already posted on p19.