Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

VijayKumarSinha · Post by **VijayKumarSinha** » 13 Sep 2009 07:16

TSP gets a frigate built in "collaboration" with China 3 more frigates to come

arun · Post by **arun** » 13 Sep 2009 11:06

Is it “Jihad fi Sabilillah” or translated “Jihad in the way of Allah” for the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to kill fellow Muslim’s during the Muslim holy month of Ramazan? :

Gunships kill 22 Taliban in Tirah

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 13 Sep 2009 21:09

^^^ arun-ji, don't forget the ~300 extra judicial killings of men in the swat valley in the past 2-3 months. apparently all tied and shot execution style. suspected of being jehadis... pak HR groups have been protesting, however its a wonderful irony compared to their previous 700,000 indian troops in cashmere killing villagers and raping wimmins rants...

Jonathan Allen · Post by **Jonathan Allen** » 13 Sep 2009 22:42

Pak diverted US funds to strengthen defence: Musharraf

Pak diverted US funds to strengthen defence

Official confirmation of what just about every body suspected.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 13 Sep 2009 22:44

No body SUSPECTED. The donors knew all along what was going on

vasu_ray · Post by **vasu_ray** » 13 Sep 2009 22:52

Probably Mushrat doesn't want US planes in our inventory with the MRCA deal, PAF 'superiority' becomes bunk to their domestic audience, ofcourse we have our reasons

there could be rewards too to TSP as a way of punishing India if we choose not to select US planes

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 14 Sep 2009 00:18

http://thebulletin.metapress.com/conten ... lltext.pdf

Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists

Nuclear Notebook: Pakistani nuclear forces, 2009

Haria · Post by **Haria** » 14 Sep 2009 01:22

Apologies if posted earlier....

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/no-se ... ts/514258/

but according to the above report Army Chief Deepak Kapoor has stated that India will reconsider NFU policy.

if reports of Pakistan's expanded arsenal are correct, then New Delhi may well have to reconsider its strategic stance.

parshuram · Post by **parshuram** » 14 Sep 2009 10:29

Perhaps This revelation by Mushy is just in order to take revenge from zardari and circus ... He is making a perfect platform for us to test again .... After all his blood line starts from Delhi

VijayKumarSinha · Post by **VijayKumarSinha** » 15 Sep 2009 07:26

More Pakistani Kukarm in Swat

Whether it is the constant harassment of muslims of Indian origin in Karachi or the excesses in balochistan and now the killing of innocent civilians in Swat, Pakistani military will stop at nothing to establish and propagate its gundaraj.

They should first jhaank in their own girewaan before trying to give us lecture on Kashmir

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 15 Sep 2009 18:53

arun wrote:The Pakistan Army's Army's doctrine does not prevent it from seeking monetary support from terrorist groups.

Al Qaeda funded the Pakistan Army’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) to destabilise Benazir Bhutto’s government in 1988.

Al-qaeda = CIA.

It was in Western interest to weaken civillian government in Pakistan and aid the military.

JimmyJ · Post by **JimmyJ** » 17 Sep 2009 18:14

US lavished $ 3.5bn arms on Pak in 2006

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news ... 022952.cms

The report lists the key elements in Pakistan’s arms purchases from the United States as follows: 36 F-16C/D Block 50/52 fighter aircraft for $1.4 billion; a variety of missiles and bombs to be utilized on the F-16 C/D fighter aircraft for over $640 million; the purchase of Mid-Life Update Modification Kits to upgrade Pakistan’s F-16A/B aircraft for $890 million; and 115 M109A5 155mm self-propelled howitzers for $52 million.

chiru · Post by **chiru** » 17 Sep 2009 19:51

panda giving aerial refullers to pakistan-----sorry no link got it from the unmentionable forum but the article seems to be fishy

LONDON: Pakistan Air Force plans to induct four Chinese airborne refullers next year, in a move to counter the Indian Air Forces' enhanced capabilities after New Delhi acquired six similar aircraft, the PAF chief has said.

Air Chief Marshal Qamar Suleman underlined that the airborne refullers were necessary to match the IAF, six years after India acquired six similar aircraft.

"This is an absolutely new capability we are getting, which we are inducting. We never had this capability in the Pakistan Air force," Suleman told the Jane's Defence Weekly.

He said to match the Indian Air Force's acquisition of the first of three Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS), his force would receive four Chinese systems between 2011 and 2012.

He also termed as "alarming"

the IAF's intention of purchasing 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft, saying Pakistan needed "to have something matching.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Sep 2009 20:07

the panda does have some AAR birds in the form of their 'cloned' An12 and Tu16 models. the PLANAF utilized them for the JH-1 plane iirc. now with lot of IL78s on order / arrived (~35), these could be handed down for free to Pak.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 20 Sep 2009 20:05

the PAF doctrine and geography of operations makes aerial refueling for them somewhat redundant. anything loitering in their skies is going to get BVR'ed - they don't have a lot of 'depth'. so if they want hanger queens and blow cash, we should encourage them...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Sep 2009 20:27

they could orbit over western baluchistan fairly safely, screened by the airbases along the indus valley.

for AEW a/c that would handily extend the endurance. one-of-kind raids as on Karwar or Goa could be possible
by refueling over the sea on the way back.

dont underestinate the pakis - they have one enemy and one goal. so they are always focussed, unlike us

Jonathan Allen · Post by **Jonathan Allen** » 20 Sep 2009 20:56

Original Sunday Times Article

Benazir asked me to give nuke know-how's to Iran: A Q Khan

"We put up a centrifuge plant at Hanzhong (250km southwest of Xian).The Chinese gave us drawings of the nuclear weapon, gave us 50kg of enriched uranium, gave us 10 tons of UF6 (natural) and 5 tons of UF6," the letter stated."

SanjibGhosh · Post by **SanjibGhosh** » 20 Sep 2009 21:39

AQ Khan blows the whistle on Pakistan

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news ... 034825.cms

Opps !!! What next !!!

Masaru · Post by **Masaru** » 20 Sep 2009 21:46

Lankan Muslims in Dubai supplied nuclear materials to Pak

Universal brotherhood of the 'religion of peace'

"Be it Libya, Iran, or Pakistan, the same suppliers were responsible for providing the material through the same third party in Dubai," ....

"It was a company with which we had established links when we could not receive the material from Europe. They were Sri Lankan Muslims,"

"Since Iran was an important Muslim country, we wished Iran to acquire this technology. Western countries pressured us unfairly."

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Sep 2009 11:47

** Deleted **

VijayKumarSinha · Post by **VijayKumarSinha** » 26 Sep 2009 08:29

This thread is only for Pakistani Military sales/acquisitions, Ops, Doctrine & related issues, not for terrorism related matters.

jmaxwell · Post by **jmaxwell** » 26 Sep 2009 09:59

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2009/nov/01/00006/

Interesting article on how Pakistan buys information from the US

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 28 Sep 2009 15:56

I am sorry ... if I am reposting it..!!!

U.S. eyes military equipment in Iraq for Pakistan

http://majalahmiliter.blogspot.com/2009 ... chive.html

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Oct 2009 10:07

Pakistan gets ASW Heli from China

Pakistan Navy has acquired Anti Submarine Warfare (ASW) helicopters Z9EC from China. The induction ceremony was held here on Wednesday at Naval Aviation Base. Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral Noman Bashir was the chief guest on the occasion.

This is the first batch of the series of six helicopters to be procured as per the contract signed with M/s China National Aero Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC). The Z9EC helicopters have been built according to the specific requirements of Pakistan Navy and are capable to detect and destroy submarines. The aircraft is configured to carry torpedoes and is fitted with state-of-the-art pulse compression radar, low frequency dipping sonar, radar warning receiver and doppler navigation system. Talking to the media men after the inauguration, the chief guest said that these days the Indian ocean is experiencing intense activity and around 100 ships from different countries are operating at all times for safeguarding their interests.

These extraordinary developments are an indicator of the importance of the trade routes in these waters. Pakistan Navy is also conducting continuous deployment of ships and aircrafts to guarantee guarding our maritime interests. Commenting on the regional stability, the naval chief denied being part of any arms race but expressed resolve to maintain quality in naval platforms and enhancement of capabilities in consonance with the developments in the region.

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 02 Oct 2009 07:44

Upgraded J-10B version for Pakistan Air Force

BY : Flight International

China plans to market the Chengdu FC-1/JF-17 and J-10 fighters aggressively as part of its plan to become a major player in the global aerospace industry.

“While AVIC’s main job is to manufacture aircraft, the company also fulfils a national agenda by producing military aircraft for China’s political allies around the world,” says a source close to Chengdu’s state-owned parent company. “There are also countries that would like to buy a good fighter, but not at the cost of a Western fighter.

“While China’s military aircraft have been exported for many years, this is the first time that there is a concerted effort to properly market them and establish a support network,” the source adds.

In the past few months, senior company officials have been identifying the military products that will be given the most attention for the export market. In the fighter segment, the JF-17 and the J-10 are the two most important aircraft, says the source.

“Given that the JF-17 has been in service in China and Pakistan for a number of years and is a mature programme, it is being given first priority,” the source adds.

Islamabad, which helped to develop the JF-17, has committed to buying 150 aircraft produced by the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. This figure could rise to 300 aircraft to replace the country’s air force fleets of Nanchang A-5s, Chengdu F-7s and Dassault Mirage III and Mirage Vs.

The JF-17 will be able to carry a variety of conventional and precision-guided bombs, and air-to-air and air-to-sea missiles from short- to beyond-visual-range. The type is already being marketed to countries in Africa, the Middle East, South America and South-East Asia.

“The J-10 is not ready for export yet, as AVIC is still finalising upgrades for the fighter,” the source says. “But there has been interest from several countries.”

AVIC is likely to begin exports of the new type – which entered Chinese air force service in early 2007 – after it has finished developing an upgraded J-10B version. Enhancements are to include a modified vertical stabiliser and ventral fins, redesigned engine inlet, a new radar and an infrared search and track sensor.
Pakistan is likely to be the first export customer, having begun negotiations to buy 36 aircraft several years ago. To be designated locally as FC-20s, deliveries are likely to begin from 2014-15.

Beijing could extend loans to purchasing countries and offer local assembly if there are sufficient orders, the source adds.

http://idrw.org/?p=1107#more-1107

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 02 Oct 2009 19:34

Pakistan has evaluated the Turkey specific T129 variant of the Italian A129 Mangusta. Looks like they want an equivalent of the LCH when it enters service in the IA and IAF.

ATAK team outlines progress of Turkey's T129 project, after first flight success
By Luca Peruzzi

Programme officials from the ATAK development team have provided further details of Turkey's T129 attack helicopter programme, as its first prototype has completed its debut flight.

Conducted at AgustaWestland's Vergiate facility in Italy on 28 September, the milestone event involved aircraft P1, the first of five prototypes to be produced under the Turkish Aerospace Industries-led programme.

Powered by LHTEC T800A-4 engines, the aircraft is one of three T129s to be built in a basic configuration, with the others to enter final assembly at Vergiate in March and July 2010, respectively.

Kits for the programme's two so-called Turkey Unique Configuration prototypes will be delivered to TAI in April and August 2010. These production-standard airframes will undergo assembly, integration, test and trials in Turkey.

Critical design reviews for both aircraft versions will be concluded in the second quarter of next year, and all five prototypes should fly by mid-2011. "The joint programme is on time, cost and scheduled programme achievements," says AgustaWestland chief executive Giuseppe Orsi.

Turkey has ordered 50 production T129s and has options on another 41. The aircraft will be equipped with Turkish-made systems including electronics, forward-looking infrared sensor, cockpit avionics and mission computer from Aselsan, and weapon systems from Roketsan.

TAI general director Muharrem Dortkasli says the first T129 ATAK will be handed over to the Turkish armed forces in the third quarter of 2013. Turkey will be responsible for international marketing and sales of the design, and industry sources say several countries are already evaluating the product, including Jordan and Pakistan.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Oct 2009 19:49

who will pay for it ? it's not cheap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAI_T-129

Turkey announced on 30 March 2007 that it had decided to negotiate with AgustaWestland to purchase 51 (+40 optional) A129 helicopters.[1][2][3] Based on the A129 International, they will be assembled in Turkey by TAI as the T-129. The deal is reported to be worth $3 Billion.[4] The final contract was signed on September 7, 2007.[5]

btw, the turkish version will have an extremely powerful engine considering its max T/O weight, the LHTEC T800, the same engine originally destined for the dhruv.

that would make it the attack helo with the best TWR in the world, knocking the LCH off its perch. (although if the current weight increase is not countered it will be even further down).

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 02 Oct 2009 21:19

Pakistan has evaluated the Turkey specific T129 variant of the Italian A129 Mangusta. Looks like they want an equivalent of the LCH when it enters service in the IA and IAF.

Kartik/Rahul M, more than matching the IA and LCH, it is a matter of options for PA. The preferred choice for PA is the AH-1X Cobra for the obvious reasons. They want the latest AH-1Z SuperViper which has recently entered with US Marines but seem to have been denied the same. The other options like Tiger/AH-64/Mi-35N are out of question even though PA officers have evaluated Tiger in 2007(08?). Even the Rooivalk would have been considered but for the fact that the development of that copter has reached dead end. That leaves only the Turkish option.But PA being PA, they'll most probably even consider hands-me down from US Army and Marines to bolster the fleet. T129 may happen quite down the line

sawant · Post by **sawant** » 02 Oct 2009 22:16

On a side note Turkey seems to shopping for a lot of weapons these days.... wonder if they have a few fingers dipped in Iraqi oil...

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Oct 2009 14:27

Bolivia to buy six Sino-Pak planes

The Bolivian government has approved the 57.8-million-dollar purchase of six planes made in Pakistan with Chinese technology for use in anti-drug operations, media here reported on Friday.

The deal was finalised on Wednesday in consultation with ministers and stipulated that the aircraft would provide a “contribution to the regional battle against narco-trafficking, ensuring requisite control of national air spaces and areas prone to and affected by this problem,” reported local independent media agency Fides.The government has not explicitly confirmed the deal but “the president will announce it on October 10,” according to Defence Minister Walker San Miguel, who was cited by La Razon newspaper.

The K-8, or Karakorum, plane is a light fighter jet jointly developed by China and Pakistan in the early 1990s. It is used primarily as a training aircraft, but can also be used for airfield defence.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 03 Oct 2009 21:11

^^^ no doubt financed by a helpful chinese bank

bart · Post by **bart** » 03 Oct 2009 22:03

SSridhar wrote:Bolivia to buy six Sino-Pak planes
The K-8, or Karakorum, plane is a light fighter jet jointly developed by China and Pakistan in the early 1990s. It is used primarily as a training aircraft, but can also be used for airfield defence.

This will be trumpeted on Pakfora for the next 50 years, like the English still talk about their 1966 WC win.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 05 Oct 2009 15:16

PAF Mirages now upgraded with IFR. These are old, but very capable aircraft similar in capbility to our Jaguar and MiG-27 aircraft, though not optimised fow lo lo flight.

http://theasiandefence.blogspot.com/200 ... lling.html

Caution for IAF especially since these Miarges will also be equipped with Raad CMs.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Oct 2009 12:40

Pentagon trying to free up choppers for Pakistan

A US military official has said that an assault by Pakistani ground forces in South Waziristan “can still be effective” despite some shortages, and the Pentagon is trying to free up helicopters and other equipment for Pakistan “as soon as possible”. Washington is also securing some equipment through third governments, but the effort is moving slowly, said officials.

arun · Post by **arun** » 07 Oct 2009 20:23

X Posted.

The Punjabi dominated Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan displays its genocidal doctrine to the minority Pathan / Pushtun.

Is this” Jihad Fi Sabilillah” or translated, “Jihad in the Way of Allah”? :

Tortured bodies of suspected militants found in Swat valley

Mingora, Pakistan — Special to The Globe and Mail Last updated on Tuesday, Oct. 06, 2009 08:22PM EDT

The tortured bodies of suspected militants have been found in Pakistan's Swat valley after a campaign by the Pakistani army against the Taliban, raising concerns that a hard-won victory may be sullied by accusations of extra-judicial killings.

There are also at least two mass graves where Taliban are buried, according to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan.

Separately, an Internet video emerged recently that appears to show Pakistani soldiers, likely in Swat, beating prisoners, including elderly men. The army was forced to announce an investigation into the video. …………………

According to Pakistani press reports, sourced to unnamed officials, 251 such corpses were found before the beginning of September. The bodies continue to be found, and locals estimate that the tally of bodies dumped in Swat could now be 300 to 400. ………………

The army denies executing its prisoners, suggesting that they were either killed in combat or at the hands of revenge-seeking citizens, including the lashkars , or tribal militias, which formed in recent weeks to defend against a return of the Taliban.

The military doesn't deny the existence of the mass graves, but says they were created by retreating Taliban killing their injured co-fighters rather than leave them behind to give away information to the authorities.

Some of the bodies found had their hands tied behind their backs. ………………

“Dead bodies are being found every day. … Even if these are reprisals by the lashkars , these lashkars have been formed by the government themselves, and they're being patronized by the government,” said Asma Jahangir, chair of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan. ………………………

Globe & Mail

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 09 Oct 2009 12:14

Pakistan turns to drones of its own

http://theasiandefence.blogspot.com/200 ... s-own.html

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 10 Oct 2009 15:20

Bijje Vekh, Mange Amrit !!
What you sow, so shall you reap !!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8300371.stm

munda · Post by **munda** » 12 Oct 2009 00:19

Pakistan Navy inducts Z-9EC Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) helicopters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1x5xAkeOKA

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 14 Oct 2009 00:44

X-posted
Pak rolls out F-16 combat jets

Islamabad: The first batch of 18 F-16 combat jets ordered by Pakistan were on Tuesday rolled out during a ceremony in the United States that was attended by Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman.

Speaking on the occasion, Suleman said Pakistan's programme to acquire new F-16 jets has seen "many ups and downs" since the signing of the contract.

"The rollout of the first aircraft shows that the programme is on track," he said.

The Block-52 F-16D jets were rolled out at a ceremony held at the Lockheed Martin Aeronautics facility at Fort Worth in Texas, said a statement from the Pakistan Air Force. Suleman was the chief guest at the ceremony.

Pakistan had signed a contract with the US government for 18 F-16 C/D aircraft in in September 2006.

These jets will bolster the PAF's fleet of combat aircraft and will enable it to undertake a "wide variety of missions across the entire spectrum of operations", the statement said.

After the testing and integration of new systems, the first batch of F-16 C/D aircraft is scheduled to arrive in Pakistan in June next year. The delivery of all 18 jets is planned to be completed by December 2010.

Besides Suleman, the ceremony was attended by Gen David Petraeus, chief of the US military's Central Commmand and Pakistan's Ambassador to the US Hussain Haqqani.

Bureau Report

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 14 Oct 2009 04:24

Pakistani Jets strike Taliban targets