Ideas and wish lists for defence related technologies

[neilmurali]

Hi,guys give your ideas, so that any official by chance can have an idea of what's running in our minds.


My Idea

The DRDO has already developed the remote control vehicle (Daksh) which detects IED's According to me it should also come with insas attached to it, It should also be built with a mapping system and connected to a tank or infantry unit throuh satellite so that they know the position of enemy targets.

[Rupesh]

IB4TL

[Anujan]

I think it should also be made amphibious to detect sea mines. Maybe even give it artificial intelligence. But if so there should be someone who is capable of monitoring it and pulling out the plug if it ever decides to overthrow us.

[Neela]

Neilmurali,

What advantage does the Daksh get when it has an Insas attached. tanks can do much more given that they have stronger armour, no?

Anyway, take this up in existing threads...but before you do post there, think hard about the specs.

Ib4TL... ( a term where members post garbage here before the guards lock this thread down! )

[KrishG]

neilmurali, welcome to BR. Here new threads are not created by will but by the permission of adminullahs! Try posting your questions and ideas on newbie thread!

{All smilies deleted by humorless Adminullah}

[archan]

I will let this thread be. Someone else was asking for it in the feedback. If it dies its natural death due to lack of ideas, then it is fine.
Please do not IB4TL.

[k prasad]

neilmurali, welcome to BR. Here new threads are created by will but by the permission of adminullahs! Try posting your questions and ideas on newbie thread!

IB4TL

I believe Neil has asked the mods on the newbie thread... lets see where this goes. I wouldn't IB4TL so quickly. However, this post would still increase my count anyway

[Mahendra]

Welcome to BRF NielMurali

First and foremost we must make use of the technology that we have, we need more eyes in the sky, we already have the capability of building and launching spy satellites.
I believe we need more of them, perhaps some of the cash which is returned unused to the GOI by the Armed forces can be used for this purpose

[neilmurali]

Neilmurali,

What advantage does the Daksh get when it has an Insas attached. tanks can do much more given that they have stronger armour, no?

Anyway, take this up in existing threads...but before you do post there, think hard about the specs.

Ib4TL... ( a term where members post garbage here before the guards lock this thread down! )

You could fire without being physically present also there should be a camera for sight

[neilmurali]

Neilmurali,

What advantage does the Daksh get when it has an Insas attached. tanks can do much more given that they have stronger armour, no?

Anyway, take this up in existing threads...but before you do post there, think hard about the specs.

Ib4TL... ( a term where members post garbage here before the guards lock this thread down! )

You could fire it from a safe distance without casualties also it should be with a camera
this a raw idea it is for the manufacturer for the specs.

[BijuShet]

Neilmurali,

What advantage does the Daksh get when it has an Insas attached. tanks can do much more given that they have stronger armour, no?

Anyway, take this up in existing threads...but before you do post there, think hard about the specs.

Ib4TL... ( a term where members post garbage here before the guards lock this thread down! )

You could fire without being physically present also there should be a camera for sight

Could you expand on :
1) Where such a system could be used (In the Rajasthani Desert and Punjab Plains or in the Arunachal Hills)?

2) Who would we use it against (regular forces or irregular ones)?

3) What would be the cost of such a system and the numbers we would need to make it useful and effective?

4) How will we prevent blue on blue situations (i.e. prevent friendly fire)?

5) Why did you choose Insas and not a higher caliber?

Ps: Welcome to BRF.

[Mark Walpole]

I am not sure if this has been said before but i would think that we need a CAS platform on the lines of the usaf ac-130 gunship under the command of a dedicated army air wing. I think in one of the old scenarios there was an an-32 converted for this role used. i would think this kind of platform would be very handy in most situations be it in the case of a defensive stance or as cas for a strike batallion.

Lol my first post ever .. even though ive been following BR for ages..

[Bob V]

hi Neil,

I hope you have heard about the DRDO UGV. It fulfills most of the requirements that you are looking for.

[neilmurali]

hi Neil,

I hope you have heard about the DRDO UGV. It fulfills most of the requirements that you are looking for.

Hey thanks for the info but i was saying that it should be smaller in size just like your Remote control toy car it could be either battery operated or a nitro engine available in market.The esteem in tne video would be a costlier affair compaired to my suggestion.

[a_kumar]

NielMurali.. Good idea for the thread.. Unleash the crazy ideas!!

First and foremost we must make use of the technology that we have, we need more eyes in the sky, we already have the capability of building and launching spy satellites.

Agree on eyes in the sky. Something that is worth the effort is a HALE UAV similar to Zephr.

If it is flying at above 50,000 and can be sustained on solar power, then it could possibly fly a lot longer than 82 hrs. Would be a good complement for the satellites.
Zephr sets record flight time 82hr 37mins

[ss_roy]

The most important issue concerning technology development is adopting a realistic timeline.

If you look at history, no promised technology/product that took more than 5 years to develop was ever successfully completed.

The first atom bomb was created from scratch in 27 months, the IBM PC was put together in less than 1.5 years.. as was the apple II. The R-7 ICBM (whose derivatives still launch soyuz) was put together in less than 5 years, from a serious beginning. Big leaps in fields as diverse as small arms, pharmaceutical research, electronics, nuclear energy etc take less than 5 years to get the first usable product.

Indian programs in areas as diverse as literacy, infrastructure, weapon manufacture, technology have timelines of decades. No wonder they never get done or reach their true potential.

The only thing more criminal than not funding a project, is funding it so poorly that it will never succeed. It is as if Indians want their efforts to fail..

[ss_roy]

Maybe we should also:

1. Pay R&D staff well.
2. Not screw around with project funding.
3. Get more private sector involvement.
4. Hire people who want to work, as opposed to pretend.

The problems with R&D in India are not unique, it is just that people running it are very meticulous at making every mistake others have made (and then some).

[Bob V]

Hey thanks for the info but i was saying that it should be smaller in size just like your Remote control toy car it could be either battery operated or a nitro engine available in market.The esteem in tne video would be a costlier affair compaired to my suggestion.

that was just a demo vehicle ....the prototype under construction is much more compact & rugged.

[sugriva]

Beam weapons not here on this thread

[Craig Alpert]

Researchers Create Radio Waves That ‘See’ Through Walls

University of Utah engineers showed that a wireless network of radio transmitters can track people moving behind solid walls. The system could help police, firefighters and others nab intruders, and rescue hostages, fire victims and elderly people who fall in their homes. It also might help retail marketing and border control.
"By showing the locations of people within a building during hostage situations, fires or other emergencies, radio tomography can help law enforcement and emergency responders to know where they should focus their attention,” Joey Wilson and Neal Patwari wrote in one of two new studies of the method.

I think this is where DRDO and our IIT's should focus. Applications like these is what's goona make INDIA and INDIANS rise globally apart from helping our defense forces!! (ALBEIT IN OUR IIT'S instead of non-Indian universities)
CARPE DIEM!!!

[SBajwa]

Government subsidized gymnasiums across all schools.

[ParGha]

Government subsidized gymnasiums across all schools.

That may be too hi-tech... seriously though the playground and the gymnasium have been the best defense investment in all countries, over all times - bar none - and the countries who have ignored it have always paid a steep price. Even more than the infrastructure, the instructors must be inspiring and creative ~ theoretically one can come up with a near-perfect routine that involves nothing more than pitting the body against earth's gravity and friction, and fellow trainees. Sadly I never had such teachers in school; fortunately I did find such people early in my adulthood.

[Ramesh]

delted.

[Rahul M]

you will get a better response if you post this in the IT linux and open source SW thread in general discussion forum, this is not quite the correct thread for this stuff.

[shiv]

The most important issue concerning technology development is adopting a realistic timeline.

If you look at history, no promised technology/product that took more than 5 years to develop was ever successfully completed.

The first atom bomb was created from scratch in 27 months, the IBM PC was put together in less than 1.5 years.. as was the apple II. The R-7 ICBM (whose derivatives still launch soyuz) was put together in less than 5 years, from a serious beginning. Big leaps in fields as diverse as small arms, pharmaceutical research, electronics, nuclear energy etc take less than 5 years to get the first usable product.

This is because all those programs were done from "Tech we have today" rather than "Tech we hope to have in future". If I say I will build an aircraft that is invisible and with smart materials it will never happen because I have to develop both those technologies before even thinking about the aircraft. If I say I will develop an aircraft with an aluminium body that carries 4 tons of bombs and flies on an engine I can make today - then we have something that is feasible. That is how the IJT was done.

I have thought about this an sometimes discussed it with others. Indians will rarely attempt to do low tech or medium tech things that we can do today because we always admire foreigners who are always ahead of us. So we never do what we can but are always trying to do what the other guy can do, minus the tech/expertise base he already has.

Fortunately for India we now have a large number of private engineering colleges and companies who are willing to try out stuff from what we have rather than trying to build what he builds from what we have.

[prabhug]

Hi
1 How about a private company developing a active radar seeker ? Beleive this is the crux of next gen sams and A-A weapons
2.An Indian company Building FPGA(Field programmable gate array ) which is used in most of our defense electronic hardware

Cheers
Prabhu,G

[Philip]

One of the most intriguing designs of al time was Gerald Bull of the Iraqi "supergun" fame.Bull's untimely violent demise saw his ideas meet an untimely end apparently.However,many of his iades havev much merit in them and we in India should take over from where he left off.Some excerpts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Bull

At SRC Bull continued the development of his high-velocity artillery, adapting the HARP smoothbore into a new "reverse rifled" design where the lands of a conventional rifling were replaced by grooves cut into the barrel to make a slightly larger gun also capable of firing existing ammunition. Normally artillery shells are sealed into the rifling by a driving band of soft metal like copper, which demands that the shell be shaped so that it balances at its widest point, where the band is located. This is not ideal for ballistics, especially supersonically where a higher fineness ratio is desirable. Bull solved this problem by using an additional set of nub "fins" near the front of the shell to keep it centered in the barrel, allowing the driving band to be greatly reduced in size, and located wherever was convenient. Re-shaping the shell for better supersonic performance provided dramatically improved range and accuracy, up to double in both cases, when compared to a similar gun using older-style ammunition. He called the new shell design "Extended Range, Full Bore" (ERFB).

Starting in 1975, Bull designed a new gun based on the common US 155/39 M109 howitzer, extending it slightly to 45 calibres through modifications that could be applied to existing weapons, calling the resulting weapon the GC-45 howitzer. Bull also purchased the base bleed technology being developed in Belgium, which allowed for further improvements in range. With ERFB round the GC-45 could routinely place rounds into 10 m circles at ranges up to 30 km, extending this to 38 km with some loss in accuracy. The gun offered ranges far in excess of even the longest-ranged heavy artillery in a gun only slightly larger than common medium-weight guns.

SRC's first major sales success was the sale of 50,000 ERFB shells to Israel in 1973 for use in American-supplied artillery pieces. The Israelis successfully used a number of 175 mm M107 guns in the counter-battery role against its Soviet counterpart, the 130 mm towed field gun M1954 (M-46), but the introduction of long range rockets fired from Lebanon outranged them. The ERFB shells extended the range of this already formidable weapon to as much as 50 km, allowing the guns to counter-battery even the longest range rockets. Bull was rewarded for success of this program by a Congressional bill, sponsored by Senator Barry Goldwater, making him retroactively eligible for a decade of American citizenship and high-level American nuclear security clearance. He was only one of three people ever granted citizenship by an Act of Congress.[22]

[edit] European Poudreries Réunies de Belgique
Bull left Canada and moved to Brussels, where a subsidiary of SRC called European Poudreries Réunies de Belgique was based. Bull continued working with the ERFB ammunition design, developing a range of munitions that could be fired from existing weapons. A number of companies designed upgrades to work with older weapons, like the M114 155 mm howitzer, combining a new barrel from the M109 with Bull's ERFB ammunition to produce an improved weapon for relatively low cost.

Bull also continued working with the GC-45 design, and soon secured work with The People's Republic of China, and then Iraq. He designed two artillery pieces for the Iraqis: the 155 mm Al-Majnoonan, an updated version of the G5, and a similar set of adaptations applied to the 203 mm US M110 howitzer to produce the 210 mm Al-Fao with a maximum range of 56 km (35 miles) without base bleed. Although it appears the Al-Fao was not put into production, the Al-Majnoonan started replacing Soviet designs as quickly as they could be delivered. When deliveries could not be made quickly enough, additional barrels were delivered from South Africa.

The guns were built and sold through Austria.

Bull then convinced the Iraqis that they would never be a real power without the capability for space launches. He offered to build a cannon capable of such launches, basically an even larger version of the original HARP design. Saddam Hussein was interested, and work started on "Project Babylon".

A smaller 45-meter, 350 mm caliber gun was completed for testing purposes, and Bull then started work on the "real" PC-2 machine, a gun that was 150 meters long, weighed 2100 tonnes, with a bore of one meter (39 inches). It was to be capable of placing a 2000-kilogram projectile into orbit. The Iraqis then told Bull they would only go ahead with the project if he would also help with development of their longer-ranged Scud-based missile project. Bull agreed.

Construction of the individual sections of the new gun started in England at Sheffield Forgemasters and Matrix Churchill as well as in Spain, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

If as Bull had intended,we can also develop a supergun and fire 2000kg sats into orbit on a regular basis,not to mention other more lethal projectiles if need be,there might be large economic benefits at least from the space launcher angle.