Indian Telecom Folder

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Avinash R
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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Avinash R » 09 Oct 2009 21:25

^ Just yesterday sam pitroda was on ndtv talking about bringing in a "broadband revolution". This is the same guy who during the rajiv gandhi govt ushered in the telecom revolution. So there is hope that a right guy in the right place has the right intentions to bring in the much needed change. If only he can change the situation fast enough.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby bart » 12 Oct 2009 12:08

Avinash R wrote:^ Just yesterday sam pitroda was on ndtv talking about bringing in a "broadband revolution". This is the same guy who during the rajiv gandhi govt ushered in the telecom revolution. So there is hope that a right guy in the right place has the right intentions to bring in the much needed change. If only he can change the situation fast enough.


Sam Pitroda is a good guy and its definitely good to have such people around.

However this is not the 80s when the Government WAS the telecom industry. Today private enterprises, individual consumers, and private service providers are the predominant drivers of broadband and telecom expansion, and the government mainly needs to get out of the way (and take its parasite-ridden BSNL out of the way). There is room for TRAI to intervene and make sure private players do not form cartels or and there is enough fair competition, however that is it.

BSNL has to be made into a shared infrastructure provider of the last mile etc. That way it can survive, and it's existing massive infrastructure can be made profitable. The management and running of it can be broken up in sections and spread among various capable Indian companies, much like the erstwhile monopoly ATT.

That is the only way to actually protect BSNL. People seem to think that BSNL is being protected and its survival is being ensured by keeping it it's present form. However the reality is that at the current rate the only thing that will be left of it is a moth-eaten shell, with its life sucked out by parasites both internal and external.

BSNL being the incumbent, with massive infrastructure should be the most competitive company around, but the reality is actually the opposite. About 6 years ago, virtually no private players had land line infrastructure or extensive fiber. By now except in rural areas, private players have mostly caught up and exceeded BSNL. Being run by corrupt/lazy babus/politicians it is losing out to private players for all the wrong reasons, might as well semi-privatize it and let it be productive. Corruption has taken it's toll, for example:
-Equipment orders have unnecessarily been delayed.
-Launch of even good services has been very poor and intentionally/unintentionally rendered ineffective. For example some years back there was a 3-month waiting period for getting a SIM card, which is plain ridiculous. In our area to get a BSNL 3G card you have to go their office, wait in a line, fill out some forms and then wait a couple of more weeks, and there is no trial so you have no idea about the speed till after you buy it. Private players not only offer trials but will come to your office to pick up the paperwork and hand over the card etc.
-Unions are probably paid off by private players to stall progress and create trouble.
-The top management who are actually quite competent were headhunted en-masse by private players, for example when Reliance mobile first launched I heard there were quite a few senior folks from each circle recruited from BSNL/MTNL with packages of 25 L + who were literally sitting around doing nothing, they were hired primarily to cripple their operations and make sure that BSNL cant react effectively.

There is no way that BSNL/MTNL can compete with private players given its antiquated processes, corrupt/lazy/self-serving employees, hence if you can't beat them might as well join them before it becomes a total loss.

Also, efforts must be made to create a national telecom standard for next gen wireless, optical networks and other areas, and encourage service providers to pool together funds to promote local R&D and platforms (either a semi-private version of C-DOT or similar alternatives like Tejas networks etc). Perhaps Pitroda can focus his attention on such areas.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby bart » 12 Oct 2009 12:23

Abhijeet wrote:
The last mile monopoly, plus the high peering charges probably both contribute to this sad state.

How is broadband ever going to take off? Can anyone provide educated guesses?


The great big hope for that was Wi-Max. It was rolled out by Reliance and Tata with the idea that it would be the great equalizer that enabled them to leap over the landline infrastructure hurdle, but there are so many quality issues that it was a colossal flop with almost every customer dissatisfied. Globally too, it seems to have fizzled. What may practically get implemented is LTE/3G connections and they seem to work well. However how much of density and saturation it can support without taking a performance hit, especially in our crowded cities remains to be seen. Regardless, in the Wi-Max vs LTE/HSDPA battle the latter is the uncontested winner.

I would say one major ray of hope is digital convergence, where players like Bharti, Tata, and Reliance have incentive to lay fiber/copper to the doorstep since it wont be just DSL but telephony, broadband internet, IP TV, and potentially lucrative services like online gaming and hosted computing power that they can get revenues from. BSNL is hopeless and till it is privatized we cant hope to realize anything from it's massive investments in infrastructure over 50 years.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Adrija » 13 Oct 2009 13:05

BSNL has to be made into a shared infrastructure provider of the last mile etc.


where players like Bharti, Tata, and Reliance have incentive to lay fiber/copper to the doorstep


Err.... just out of curiousity, do you even realize the contradiction in your above two statements?

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby bart » 13 Oct 2009 16:22

Adrija wrote:
BSNL has to be made into a shared infrastructure provider of the last mile etc.


where players like Bharti, Tata, and Reliance have incentive to lay fiber/copper to the doorstep


Err.... just out of curiousity, do you even realize the contradiction in your above two statements?


Well if you quote a sentence each from two separate posts and put them together out of context in a sarcastic tone, you are not going to get it, no matter how curious you are. :roll:

The first means that BSNL should be forced to allow other, more efficient providers to use its existing last mile infrastructure and let the customer chose. Instead of re-inventing the wheel and laying separate copper to each street and digging up the road again, they can just use the existing copper infrastructure and invest in the higher layers of the network. That is hypothetical and there is no indication that the government or TRAI are going to make that change, and BSNL sure as hell will oppose it tooth and nail.

Which is why the second might be a good thing. Even if 1 materializes, they are not mutually exclusive, FTTH/FTTP will still be needed for meeting next generation media requirements, which was the context in which I mentioned 2.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Adrija » 13 Oct 2009 19:06

Not really interested in engaging in a sparing match- so will limit my reply.

The two ARE mutually exclusive....... countries which have followed an "open access" model (your first one) has not seen any investments in NGN and new fiber infra generally.... so the two regulatory paths are largely alternates, not complementary

Happy to cite multiple examples, if you insist

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Singha » 13 Oct 2009 20:01

I have seen airtel people laying their own fibers? in blr (orange cable). they have a cart type machine with a round blade that cuts the road surface to a shallow depth, the cable is laid inside then sealed with some hardening material.

in other places thick black cables with many wires inside are laid. but all is separate from BSNL.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby bart » 13 Oct 2009 21:29

Singha wrote:I have seen airtel people laying their own fibers? in blr (orange cable). they have a cart type machine with a round blade that cuts the road surface to a shallow depth, the cable is laid inside then sealed with some hardening material.

in other places thick black cables with many wires inside are laid. but all is separate from BSNL.


Yeah right now everybody lays their own fiber, at least in the last mile or in metro areas. Long distance fiber is often leased as it makes more sense, but there too all the big players have their own infrastructure to a large extent. In Chennai the corporation has been working on getting dedicated fiber ducts allocated in the roads where multiple fiber providers can lay cables in the same channel and also access it for maintenance and repair, it helps avoid multiple people digging up the road again and again for accessing their fiber.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Tanaji » 14 Oct 2009 03:01

Personally I am not convinced about the common carrier status... Based on experience in US and UK, the end user gets stuck being the piggy in the middle to be made a fool of. The ISP invariably blames the common carrier while the latter blames the ISP for any broadband woes. And worst of all is the case if the common carrier has outsourced its DSLAMs.... heaven help you in that case. At least in the West, strong consumer laws protect you to some extent. Woe betide the Indian consumer where the attitude of BSNL types is we are doing you a favor by taking your money in the first case.

If everyone is laying their own fiber, more power to them!

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby bart » 14 Oct 2009 18:10

Tanaji wrote:Personally I am not convinced about the common carrier status... Based on experience in US and UK, the end user gets stuck being the piggy in the middle to be made a fool of. The ISP invariably blames the common carrier while the latter blames the ISP for any broadband woes. And worst of all is the case if the common carrier has outsourced its DSLAMs.... heaven help you in that case. At least in the West, strong consumer laws protect you to some extent. Woe betide the Indian consumer where the attitude of BSNL types is we are doing you a favor by taking your money in the first case.

If everyone is laying their own fiber, more power to them!



Every country is different, and India is certainly different from the west. By sharing BSNL's infrastructure, you don't have to restrict people only to that or make it the only last mile provider, there are still vast areas where BSNL does not have coverage or not of adequate quality so they will need BSNL and others to keep installing fiber and copper anyway.

In India certainly DSL deployments and broadband penetration suffered by at least 5 years as first movers like Dishnet were not allowed to use existing infrastructure (while at the same time BSNL was not ready to deploy DSL either) which meant that they ran overhead cables for the same at huge cost and with poor reliability.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Adrija » 15 Oct 2009 10:22

Countries which have adopted open access/ unbundling have done so only after fixed teledensity has reached saturation (i.e., >50%), any regime which forces infra sharing before that has resulted in infra investments drying up.

The problem is even more stark now that NGN investments are on the radar, over and above the basic fixed infra, and in response countries have largely adopted three positions (a) government led funding e.g., Malaysia, Singapore even if the exact models differ in details (b) rolling back of unbundling e.g., US (c) do not change the unbundling requirements- Europe- and see carriers like DT refuse to undertake large scale NGN investments

Perhaps India is at the stage where we still require massive investments in the fixed line, so even if it appears to be "wasted" it is worth it....... by that logic all capital intensive industries should have limited investment regimes, which sounds oxymoronic

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Pranav » 15 Oct 2009 10:36

Are cash-rich BSNL and MTNL in the process of being looted via a middle-eastern deal?

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Meet the mysterious Farid Arifuddin
http://business.rediff.com/slide-show/2 ... fuddin.htm

A consortium led by Vavasi Telegence is all set to buy a substantial portion in Zain, a Kuwait-based telecom company, with operations in 22 countries.

Image
We read the news and reacted the same way -- Vavasi? who?

Vavasi is the dream child of Farid Arifuddin, a businessman from Karnataka. With less than Rs 150 crore (Rs 1.5 billion) of paid up capital in his company, Arifuddin's consortium roped in public sector telecom giants Mahanagar Telecom Nigam Ltd and Bharat Sanchar Nigam Ltd to stake a claim to at least 46% of Zain.

The deal is pegged at Rs 63,000 crore (Rs 630 billion).

Zain's largest shareholders are the Kuwait Investment Authority, a sovereign wealth fund which holds a 24.6% stake, and the Kharafi Group who holds around 10.85%.

Arifuddin, who is said to have links with many members of the ruling Congress party, Telecommunications Minister A Raja of the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam, BSNL and MTNL has successfully convinced Malaysian billionaire Syed Mokhtar al-Bukhary and some Indian private equity funds to invest in the deal.

Will Arifuddin accomplish what giants like India's Reliance Communications, French firm Vivendi, the United Arab Emirates's Etisalat (all tried and failed to buy Zain's pie), and Bharati (its botched MTN deal) failed to do?

After some dilly-dallying, both BSNL and MTNL say they are now ready to join the Vavasi-led consortium. They will bring to the table balance-sheets with mammoth cash reserves, which is what observers say Vavasi -- which itself does not have much revenue -- is angling for.

BSNL has cash reserves of $8 billion (about Rs 35,000 crores) and MTNL has about $1.7 billion (about Rs 7,000 crores). PSU executives, who are familiar with the deal, say there is political pressure on the two companies to join the consortium.

The deal raises much speculation about Arifuddin's money and clout. Who is backing him? What is his relationship with politicians? Is he merely a front man for big players in telecom?

In an exclusive interview with rediff.com's Sheela Bhatt and Krishnakumar P, maverick businessman Arifuddin speaks about his business, plans and politics.

What is your take on politics and business being mixed up in India?

It varies from country to country, culture to culture. Ultimately in every social order, there is some kind of correlation. If you say it is seamless I would not agree.

How is it in India?

In India, it is in an evolutionary mode. Probably in the next 20 years, India's business order would mature. Currently some of the basic fundamental equations are coming under scrutiny and a stress test.

In India politics and business are mixed up. We are talking about the United Progressive Alliance....

We do not have any political support.

Please shed some light on your background.

I am from Karnataka. My father is a retired chief engineer of the state electricity board.

Was your family well-off?

You could say that, technically. I did enjoy certain privileges.

I did my schooling at different places. Since my father around that time held a district level posting, I went to English medium schools. I also have a brother and two sisters.

When they (his brother and sisters) were school-going children, my father was in a junior posting, so they had to go to Kannada medium schools.

I did my engineering from two different colleges. I had to because I was active in student politics.

Why did you become an engineer?

I think I always knew what I wanted to be right from the beginning. I went to an engineering college not to become an engineer, but to learn.

But politics was not big in professional colleges.

True. But I was active anyway. I came to Delhi in 1987, after I finished my engineering.

Why did you come to Delhi?

I did not look for a job. That's for sure. I was just here for four, five years.

Why not a job? Were you ashamed of taking up a job?

Why should I be ashamed of doing a job? It was a period of learning for me.

What were you learning?

I was learning about everything -- from people to politics to economics.

You must have been in the Congress.

Yes. I was in the Congress. Rajiv Gandhi was putting together a team, and I was part of it.

Were you in the Department of Telecommunication?

I was not in DoT. I was a national office-bearer. (Current Union Minister for Highways) Kamal Nath was my senior. I was absolutely clear about what I wanted to do and how I wanted to do it.

What was your vision about what you wanted to do?

My vision in 1987 was to understand and learn as much as I could. I quit politics in 1994.

Any particular reason?

(P V) Narasimha Rao became prime minister and many people were not wanted in the hierarchy of the party. Some wanted to wait and watch. But I decided to move on. Many of my contemporaries too did the same.

Among those who stayed back, very few achieved anything substantial in life. Rao was a smart politician. I thought it was better to leave.

Soon, I left India, and spent some time in the UK and US.

When did you earn your first million?

I have still not earned it!

However, along with a couple of friends, I hold patents for a few money spinners. We are extremely focused and deal in two types of businesses -- telecom and silicon.

In telecom we own the next generation access technology. Many of your readers may not understand the exact implications, but what we own is actually a lot of money. We also have other Intellectual Property Rights.

I myself hold several patents including the one for reactors used to manufacture silicon. We have also filed patents for some access devices and other systems that we have designed.

We have also developed a heat removal system for data centres. Let me explain this to you.

About 98 per cent of electricity, which is used by data centres, is converted into heat. Five per cent of the total electricity generated in the US goes into data centres. Eighty per cent of this is used for cooling. So, my systems are worth a lot of money. I am the inventor.

When and where did you work on these things?

In this room!

But you needed to have started somewhere to get to this position.

That is your hypothesis. It is not true.

How did you grow?

Where have I grown?

From being a Congressman how did you get into the world of business?

During 1996-1997, I was in the oil and gas business. I was sitting on the LNG terminal in Gopalpur. When Reliance found gas, we exited.

Then, I ventured into a couple of other things -- none of which are of any consequence.

Then we entered the telecom arena. Basically we were looking at it from a technology perspective. The world moved from the analogous to the digital system; from the voice to the mobile system.

In mobile telephony we thought something is missing somewhere. We started working on the missing link.

This was 2001...

We were working on Synchronised CDMA technology, and it took us a long time to get it tested. It also involved a lot of money, patience and perseverance.

We then acquired a small telecom network in Mongolia. We did a trial in India. It took us three years to perfect the technology. That band was open. The commercialisation, however, is pending with the telecom regulator, TRAI. It has to take a decision with regard to pricing.

We were simultaneously working on silicon. At that time, all this emphasis on clean energy was not there. (Then US President George W) Bush was there, and he was driving up the price of oil. We just believed that it (silicon) is the only way forward.

I am just giving you an anecdote. A senior Saudi minister invited us and asked one reason why he should do business with us.

Some 20 years back the wealth of your economy was determined on the basis of three, four parameters. How much of oil can you find? How much can you sell? What price can you sell it at? When will the price crash?

Today, the world really doesn't care about these parameters. Today the world cares how much of carbon dioxide the global environment can take. Change is the only constant in life.

What is the paid up capital of your company?

We have two companies. NGTL India and Vavasi Telegence with Rs 150 crores to Rs 200 crores (Rs 1.5 billion to Rs 2 billion) of capitalisation.

Any plan to go public?

Those are all incidental issues. You should not count them as plans.

Who are the promoters of your company?

I have friends and well-wishers -- people who have faith in what we did.

Do you have any connection with Sam Pitroda? What is the connection of your company with former President A P J Abdul Kalam?

Sam Pitroda is not directly or indirectly associated in any way. Neither is Kalam.

Have you met them?

Why should I not meet them?

Are they advising you?

I know so many people. I have learnt a lot from them. I may have also contributed in an insignificant way. Here, you can't say people are advising...

Don't you think many changes are happening in India's business arena? How can a little-known company like yours bag such a big deal? MTNL and BSNL certainly could have found a better name or brand.

Do you mean I bribed someone?

Let me be very frank, clear and straight forward. I can show -- not now, of course -- it will be a little impolite -- that MTNL and BSNL took the decision. If they had not taken a positive decision, I still would have gone through with the deal.

I am a small company, and I have absolutely no compunctions about it. I am not seeking favours from anyone. I have aspirations to grow which in my view is not a bad thing. I may grow, again I may not... but to not make an effort is a bad thing.

Zain is not the only company in the world, there are at least 15 others.

I did not stop anybody from approaching Zain. I entered into a deal with them. How the deal fructified is a little secret between them and me.

What is this deal all about?

Everything will be reveled in a public announcement.

What we achieve in life comes under scrutiny. You could always associate some motive or the other. If you are saying I got this because of my political background, then it is wrong.

There may be a few thousand people like me. You could attribute any reason for my achievements. But, I think ultimately, whatever a person achieves it is because of hard work.

How did you meet the Zain management?

If I were to share all that, it would not be appropriate.

What do you get from the deal?

Let us not get into that.

Who approached whom? How did the BSNL-MTNL-Vavasi collaboration happen?

Business doesn't happen like this. Business is not done because someone approached someone. Do they want you or otherwise? Business is done only for the sake of business.

Is Telecommunications Minister A Raja involved with you in any manner? Does he or his family have any interest in this deal?

You are asking me an absolutely ridiculous question. It is an insult.

First and foremost, why should I do business with Raja's family? You think I am going to do business with someone today because he is the telecom minister?

As telecom minister, if he feels there is merit in my proposal, let him clear it.

If this deal materialises, what will be its business impact?

You have been in Delhi for 20 years, so you will be here for at least 10 more years. Time will speak for it. It won't be appropriate for me to say anything.

How will it benefit the country?

There would be significant benefits. The country will gain $20 billion to $25 billion out of this project. Now it is for them to decide whether they want it or don't want it. I think there cannot be a greater disservice (in opposing the deal).

Do you think your competitors can play spoilsport?

If you are worthless, nobody can help you. If you are worthy, nobody can put you down.

On a scale of ten what is the possibility of this deal going through?

10.

Do you have political support in Kuwait?

I have political support all over the world.

When will this deal come through? Are you going to be celebrating Diwali or Christmas?

Definitely not Diwali... but soon after that.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby svinayak » 16 Oct 2009 03:07

Pranav wrote:Are cash-rich BSNL and MTNL in the process of being looted via a middle-eastern deal?

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India needs to avoid the ME connections since it is not transparent and there is security issues

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby negi » 26 Oct 2009 18:50

We haph done it yet again :mrgreen:

Spectrum allocation largest scam in India: BJP


NEW DELHI: The opposition Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) on Monday said the alleged irregularities in allotting wireless radio spectrum and licences by the telecom ministry to nine private operators in 2007 was the "largest scam in independent India" that cost the government a whopping "Rs 60,000 crore".

"In terms of monetary value, it is the largest scam in independent India. It is a monumental scam. It cannot be a subject of controversy. It is a mathematical calculation," Leader of Opposition in the Rajya Sabha Arun Jaitley told reporters here.

Demanding that telecom minister A Raja of the DMK should be sacked, the BJP general secretary took exception to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh "intervening in the matter".

"I don't think the prime minister should intervene when the investigation is on," Jaitley said.

Manmohan Singh said Sunday that allegations about the scam were incorrect but he refused to answer a question about the opposition parties' demand that Raja should resign following last week's Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) raids on the offices of his ministry.

Jaitley said the government had in 2007 recommended an "open licence regime".

"Applications for telecom licences were invited setting Oct 1, 2007, as the deadline. An artificial cut-off date, Sep 25, 2007, was created and applications received between Sep 25 and Oct 1 were summarily rejected. Rules of the game were changed after the game had begun," he said.

The BJP leader alleged that "all friendly applicants, mostly real estate companies, had been advised to put in their applications before Sep 25".

The licences and the spectrum allocation were then allotted to nine operators at a price of Rs.1,650 crore per operator, he said.

"This price," he said, "was not taken on the basis of the 2007 market value but on the basis of an auction held in 2001.


"The value of the licence and spectrum in 2007 could not be the same as in 2001. The telecom market has grown phenomenally during this period," he said, adding the companies "post allotment didn't operate the service".

"All they (the private companies) owned was a shell company and a guaranteed spectrum. They availed 74 percent Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) policy of the government and found buyers and joint venture partners from the international market," Jaitley said.

"The companies were overnight valued at over $2 billion (over Rs.9,000 crore) and a large chunk of the equity was sold by at least three licencees to overseas partners at a price of Rs.6,000-7,000 crore. Obviously the government lost over Rs.60,000 crore for the nine licences collectively along with the spectrum," he said.


Alleging that the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) was trying to "cover up" the scam, the BJP leader said, "It was unfortunate that the prime minister has chosen to comment on the innocence of the minister".

"The compulsions of the coalition politics should not come in the way of an honest investigation. The minister should cease to be in office. His continuation is itself a deterrent to an honest investigation," the BJP leader said.

"It is an open and shut case, not only for the investigation and trial but for conviction also," he said.


Learned folks what do you make of Mr. Jaitley's accusations ?

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby negi » 26 Oct 2009 19:04

Background

Learning with the Times: What is the telecom scam?

What is the scale of the telecom spectrum scam?
While all kinds of estimates have been made by various people, the most commonly cited
figure is Rs 60,000 crore. That is the amount of money the exchequer is alleged to have lost by allocating spectrum to telecom operators dirt cheap.

What is the basis for this claim?
In January 2008, licences were given on a first-come-first-served basis to operators at a price of Rs 1,651 crore per licence. These licences came with the spectrum needed to run operations. The price was determined on the basis of the last auction of spectrum done in 2001. Critics argued that the actual market price of spectrum in 2008 was about six times that price.

Why six times?
A couple of companies, Swan and Unitech, that had acquired telecom licences subsequently sold stakes which indicated valuations about six times as high the price they had paid for their licences. Since these companies had no telecom assets other than the licences, critics pointed out that this was in fact a market valuation of the spectrum.
{is this the only basis for accusations ? }

How is Raja involved?
Those making the allegations say the decision to follow the first-come-first-served principle and not auction spectrum but give it at 2001 prices was taken by Raja as telecom minister. Also, he is alleged to have arbitrarily shifted the cut-off date for applications to suit operators he was favourably inclined towards.

What is Raja's defence?
He insists that he was merely following the precedent set by his predecessors and the advice of the telecom regulator, TRAI. His predecessors and the regulator have vehemently denied these claims. Raja also says auctioning wasn't followed because he wanted to keep the cost of telecom services low for consumers, a claim that hasn't found too many takers.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Rishirishi » 28 Oct 2009 02:35

Some cold facts.

unitech wireless, a company without any experiance, got the lisence for cheap and sold of parts of the company to Telenor for a huge profit. Why did the governement allocate Unitech without an official auction?
It is a scam on monumental scale.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Rahul Mehta » 28 Oct 2009 06:34

Rishirishi wrote:Some cold facts.

unitech wireless, a company without any experiance, got the lisence for cheap and sold of parts of the company to Telenor for a huge profit. Why did the governement allocate Unitech without an official auction?
It is a scam on monumental scale.


How does that prove that A Raja took bribes? It may be that he honestly made a bad decision. Does bad decision always prove that decision maker took bribes?

Or let me put other way. When I give "cold facts" about bad decision ABV, LKA, SCjs, HCjs, UPSC interview takers take, most educated/articulate people claim that none of these "cold facts" prove that LKA, ABV, SCjs, HCjs etc took bribes and since there is no proof that LKA, ABV, SCjs, UPSC interview takers etc take bribe, they are all non-corrupt.

So I am putting on their hat for a while. Do you have any proof that A Rajan took even Rs 2 of bribe? Should people be allowed to make wild allegations without proofs on this esteemed forum and this holy thread?

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby kmkraoind » 29 Oct 2009 10:29

Google Eyes WiMAX Spectrum

The Business Standard reported this week that Google is considering participating in the subcontinent’s January auction of 3G and WiMAX spectrum by partnering with an Indian firm. Rules for participation by foreign companies mean that Google would need to limit its stake in any joint venture to 74 percent. Alternatively, it could become an official technology partner for a carrier. Google hasn’t confirmed or denied the report.

But why, one may ask, would Google get into the operating game? One answer is that India’s broadband opportunity is a story of huge pent-up demand and potential growth. India’s communications regulatory body, TRAI, reports that there were a mere 5.45 million broadband subscribers in India at the end of 2008, out of the staggering 1.5 billion residents of the country. WiMAX and other wireless technologies are the obvious choices to get connectivity out to the underserved. As it stands, the country has only a 33.23 percent teledensity overall.


Quietly Google is becoming omnipotent in technology sector. Bet my 2 cents within a decade it will become inseparable, but without attracting the wrath of tech people as of Micro$oft.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby kmkraoind » 29 Oct 2009 10:35

Rahul Mehta wrote:So I am putting on their hat for a while. Do you have any proof that A Rajan took even Rs 2 of bribe? Should people be allowed to make wild allegations without proofs on this esteemed forum and this holy thread?


Rahul sir, I always cherish to read your posts on BRF, but asking for a proof for a corruption at Cabinet level is not in good taste. Do you think they are that dumb to take bribe even knowing their associates leaving a proof. I know that you have contested in general elections, it seems like you are also learning habit of politicians :roll:

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby chetak » 30 Oct 2009 02:11

Rahul Mehta wrote:
Rishirishi wrote:Some cold facts.

unitech wireless, a company without any experiance, got the lisence for cheap and sold of parts of the company to Telenor for a huge profit. Why did the governement allocate Unitech without an official auction?
It is a scam on monumental scale.


How does that prove that A Raja took bribes? It may be that he honestly made a bad decision. Does bad decision always prove that decision maker took bribes?

Or let me put other way. When I give "cold facts" about bad decision ABV, LKA, SCjs, HCjs, UPSC interview takers take, most educated/articulate people claim that none of these "cold facts" prove that LKA, ABV, SCjs, HCjs etc took bribes and since there is no proof that LKA, ABV, SCjs, UPSC interview takers etc take bribe, they are all non-corrupt.

So I am putting on their hat for a while. Do you have any proof that A Rajan took even Rs 2 of bribe? Should people be allowed to make wild allegations without proofs on this esteemed forum and this holy thread?



Methaji,

Please explain.......

How has the net worth of some of the dramatis personae ( and family ) involved in this fiasco climbed so sharply upwards?

Lucky at the race tracks or simply won a big lottery?

Just look at the modus operandi of the said personae, all from the same money grubbing party and all caught by the press. And all publicly condemned by MMS

Tell me why was the " famed " tehelka fast asleep at the wheel?

Do you think that the commons are fools, especially after what transpired in the Tamil nadu lok sabha elections?

The smoking gun is the proof!


http://www.indianexpress.com/news/the-e ... s/534669/0

The entire spectrum of allegations

The main controversy arises due to the allocation of 2G telecom licences in January 2008, accompanied by 4.4 megahertz of start-up spectrum, on a First Come First Serve (FCFS) basis, at the same price of Rs 1,651 crores which prevailed in 2001. Raja argued that his decision to allot licences on the FCFS basis rather than holding auctions was based on the new National Telecom Policy of 1999. While it is true that telecom licences were awarded on the FCFS basis prior to 2003, a decision of the Union Cabinet of October 31 2003, when it introduced Unified Access Service Licences, had stated that all future licences should be auctioned. The Vajpayee cabinet had accepted TRAI’s recommendations on UASL. In Section 7.39 of its recommendations on UASL, TRAI had recommended: “As the existing players have to improve efficiency and utilisation of spectrum and if the government ensures availability of additional spectrum, then in the existing licensing regime, they may introduce additional players through a multi-stage bidding process as was followed for the fourth cellular operator.” This was accepted in toto by the Vajpayee Cabinet.


Moreover, a judgement of the High Court of Delhi in 1993 had ruled that the FCFS principle was arbitrary, unjust, and unfair. Justice D.P. Wadhwa had ruled on September 21 1993 in Home Communication v. Union Of India and Others regarding the allotment of time slots on satellite channels of Doordarshan: “The basis of first come first served for allotment of time slots on satellite channels is arbitrary. It is unreasonable, unjust and unfair.” This was reiterated by Justice Anil Dev Singh of the High Court of Delhi in 1998. On the other hand, the High Court of Madras found nothing wrong in the FCFS principle when it dismissed a writ petition challenging Doordarshan’s decisions on January 27 1993.


Raja’s statement that nowhere did the TRAI explicitly state that the price discovered in the 2001 auction should not be adhered to in future is not wholly correct. Section 2.73 of the TRAI’s August 2007 recommendations states: “In today’s dynamism and unprecedented growth of telecom sector, the entry fee determined then (2001) is also not the realistic price for obtaining a license. Perhaps it needs to be reassessed through a market mechanism...” While it is true that TRAI’s recommendation is vaguely worded and does not explicitly recommend auctioning of the spectrum, it certainly indicates that the spectrum could not be allocated in January 2008 at the same price that it was allotted in June 2001.


Raja’s claim that he had the backing of the Finance Ministry is also not wholly correct. Former Finance Secretary (and currently governor of the Reserve Bank of India) Duvuri Subbarao had written to the then Secretary of the Department of Telecommunications, Dinesh S. Mathur, on November 22 2007: “The purpose of this letter is to confirm if proper procedure has been followed with regards to financial diligence. In particular, it is not clear how the rate of Rs 1,600 crore, determined as far back as 2001, has been applied for a license given in 2007 without any indexation... In view of the financial implications, the Ministry of Finance should have been consulted in the matter before you finalised the decision.” Subbarao went on to instruct DoT to “kindly review the matter and revert to us as early as possible with responses to the above issues. Meanwhile, all further action to implement the above licenses may please be stayed.”


Raja also ignored a memorandum sent to him by then Telecom Secretary D. S. Mathur and then Member Finance of the Telecom Commission Manju Madhavan dated October 25 2007 which stated: “Existing criteria of entry fee was based on the entry fee paid by the fourth cellular operator, which was decided based on 3-stage informed ascending financial bidding at that time (year 2001). The Indian telecom sector has witnessed tremendous growth due to the continued liberalisation and has emerged as the fastest growing telecom network in the world. Therefore, the bidding / auction process will establish the entry fee based on current market perception.”


A. Raja has a lot to answer for.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Vipul » 02 Nov 2009 04:28

Metros' teledensity crosses 100%.

The scorching growth of mobile services over the 12 months, combined with falling tariffs, have seen the four metro cities of the country Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkata & Chennai — all crossing the 100% teledensity mark. This implies, the number of mobile phone connections in these cities are higher than the number of residents.

In October 2008, Delhi had joined the global league of cities with over 100% mobile penetration, such as London, New York, Paris, Tokyo, Hong Kong and Singapore. But, as per the latest figures by the department of telecom (DoT), Chennai now leads with a 143% penetration, implying that the city has 1.43 mobile connections per person, followed by Delhi at 138%, Mumbai (112%) and Kolkata at 102.4%.

The telecom penetration in these cities would be much higher, if the landline figures are also taken into account.

While the four metros jointly account for only a fifth of the 450 million mobile users in the country, they are considered the most lucrative markets. As per industry estimates, a third of all operator’s revenues come from these four cities. The 100% penetration comes even as four new operators led by Norway’s Telenor (Unitech Wireless) are set to launch operations, leading with the metro cities.

Despite saturation levels, all operators remain upbeat about the prospects in the metros. Bharti Airtel, the country’s largest operator, by both revenues and subscribers, is of the view that growth in metros will continue for the next 3-4 years.

“The 100% penetration has to be seen in perspective — it shows SIM penetration as people have multiple SIMs. As an operator, we see the SIM penetration going up further as new applications come in. For instance, data cards are increasingly used for internet and other applications. When 3G services come in, customers are likely to use SIMs exclusively for high-end services,” explained Bharti Airtel’s deputy CEO Sanjay Kapoor. He also pointed out that a lot of customers had taken additional connections or SIMs only recently, and this segment offered growth and new business opportunities for all operators.

“For a player like Bharti, we are steadily moving away from being a pure telecom player to a lifestyle company. As these new services (banking, mobile commerce, money transfers, TV and high-speed internet on mobiles) come in, the metros are large markets that are yet to be tapped. This is true of all highly developed markets like London, Tokyo and New York,” Mr Kapoor added.

According to a top executive with another large GSM operator, each of the four metros had the scope of increasing their penetration levels by another 20-30%, as over a fifth of the residents in these cities, who are in the lower income bracket, a mobile phone continued to remain an aspirational product.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby bhavin » 02 Nov 2009 11:19

negi wrote:Background

Learning with the Times: What is the telecom scam?

------
What is the basis for this claim?
In January 2008, licences were given on a first-come-first-served basis to operators at a price of Rs 1,651 crore per licence. These licences came with the spectrum needed to run operations. The price was determined on the basis of the last auction of spectrum done in 2001. Critics argued that the actual market price of spectrum in 2008 was about six times that price.

Why six times?
A couple of companies, Swan and Unitech, that had acquired telecom licences subsequently sold stakes which indicated valuations about six times as high the price they had paid for their licences. Since these companies had no telecom assets other than the licences, critics pointed out that this was in fact a market valuation of the spectrum.
{is this the only basis for accusations ? }
....


Negiji - While I am not privy to the particular deals in question, but generally comps or comparables are considered a valid method of valuation of companies. Sort of similar to how homes are valued in US - where recent transactions in the general neighborhood which have homes of similar characteristics are taken into account when valuing a home. The idea is that the deals done in the market generally reflect the market price of that particular asset. In this case, the price paid by a company for acquiring an asset is considered as the market price of that asset.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Tanaji » 02 Nov 2009 22:48

Rahul Mehta wrote:
How does that prove that A Raja took bribes? It may be that he honestly made a bad decision. Does bad decision always prove that decision maker took bribes?

Or let me put other way. When I give "cold facts" about bad decision ABV, LKA, SCjs, HCjs, UPSC interview takers take, most educated/articulate people claim that none of these "cold facts" prove that LKA, ABV, SCjs, HCjs etc took bribes and since there is no proof that LKA, ABV, SCjs, UPSC interview takers etc take bribe, they are all non-corrupt.

So I am putting on their hat for a while. Do you have any proof that A Rajan took even Rs 2 of bribe? Should people be allowed to make wild allegations without proofs on this esteemed forum and this holy thread?


Why are you so intent on defending A Raja? For someone that keeps saying proving x is TRIVIAL, or one who says all police and judges are corrupt, why do you defend A Raja? Here is more:

http://business.rediff.com/column/2009/ ... d-raja.htm

Well, read the S Tel judgment delivered last July -- S Tel had applied for a licence in 16 telecom circles on September 28, 2007, well before Raja's original cut-off date of October 1 (on January 10, 2008, however, Raja said he'd give licences only to those firms that had applied till September 25, 2007).

In this judgment, the court has said "by amending the cut-off date, (Raja has) placed a cap on the number of (service) providers". In the event, the court quashed Raja's January 10 press release and said the government had to consider S Tel's application as well. By the same token, the government has to consider the applications of all the 46 companies.

More important, if Raja's decision to change the cut-off date is illegal as the high court has said, his subsequent decision to give licences on a first-come-first-served basis (to the companies that paid the licence fee first) is also illegal.


One of the lines the CBI is following deals with how, in less than an hour of the policy being announced, a handful of firms were able to deposit their bank drafts -- this put them at the top of the line to get spectrum, and suggests they had advance knowledge of when the policy would be announced.


Why is Rahul Mehta against the COMMONs and pro-NBJ? The COMMONs demand an answer...

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Rahul Mehta » 05 Nov 2009 08:56

Tanaji wrote:Why are you so intent on defending A Raja? For someone that keeps saying proving x is TRIVIAL, or one who says all police and judges are corrupt, why do you defend A Raja?


I did not say that Raja is non-corrupt. I am only asking if you have proofs that Raja took bribes.

And I also want to point out the following trend on BR as well as civil society of India :

1. When a upper caste judge/neta such as Khare/ABV takes a highly unethical, illegal and corrupt decision, and when I accuse them of bribery, many articulate people (yourself included) immediately jump in , demand links, sources and proofs behind allegations, make cries that such allegations must not be made without proofs and some (not you) demand ban on me for making allegation of bribery against ABV, Khare etc.

2. And when someone makes allegations against dalit, tribal, OBC neta/judges like Raja, Yadav, Koda or Dinakaran, the same proof-seeking articulate people disappear without leaving a trace.

http://business.rediff.com/column/2009/ ... d-raja.htm

Well, read the S Tel judgment delivered last July -- S Tel had applied for a licence in 16 telecom circles on September 28, 2007, well before Raja's original cut-off date of October 1 (on January 10, 2008, however, Raja said he'd give licences only to those firms that had applied till September 25, 2007).

In this judgment, the court has said "by amending the cut-off date, (Raja has) placed a cap on the number of (service) providers". In the event, the court quashed Raja's January 10 press release and said the government had to consider S Tel's application as well. By the same token, the government has to consider the applications of all the 46 companies.

More important, if Raja's decision to change the cut-off date is illegal as the high court has said, his subsequent decision to give licences on a first-come-first-served basis (to the companies that paid the licence fee first) is also illegal.


The above post only shows that Raja perhaps took some wrong decisions. How does that prove that he took bribes? And Raja explained that first come first served policy was approved by cabinet, and notification did say that closing date can be changed without prior notice. And it is also possible that the HCj is saying so because those who did not get licenses are bring the HCj to say so. In absence of Gandhi Test ( Gandhi Test = truth serum test), how basis do you have to assert that HCj is not corrupt?

---

ABV (a Brahmin) had kicked out Jagmohan from Telecom Ministry in 1999 and then favored Reliance Infocom in unethical ways for unknown amount of bribes ABV got from Mukeshbhai. In another incident not related with telecome but surely related with the saga of corruption in India, ABV has released Latvia/British terrorists in Purulia case for unknown amounts of bribes he received from Russian Mafia and British MI5. And when I made these allegations on BR, the articulate people here demanded proofs, and some also demanded ban on me for making allegation without proofs. I wonder why these articulate people dont demand proofs when allegations against a Dalit Minister is made without proof. Why do I smell a casteism in the arguments of the learned ones and the articulates?

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Yayavar » 05 Nov 2009 10:07

Rahul Mehta wrote:
ABV (a Brahmin) had kicked out Jagmohan from Telecom Ministry in 1999 and then favored Reliance Infocom in unethical ways for unknown amount of bribes ABV got from Mukeshbhai. In another incident not related with telecome but surely related with the saga of corruption in India, ABV has released Latvia/British terrorists in Purulia case for unknown amounts of bribes he received from Russian Mafia and British MI5. And when I made these allegations on BR, the articulate people here demanded proofs, and some also demanded ban on me for making allegation without proofs. I wonder why these articulate people dont demand proofs when allegations against a Dalit Minister is made without proof. Why do I smell a casteism in the arguments of the learned ones and the articulates?


Mehtaji, could it be your hyperactive imagination generating the fumes of casteism that you smell ? :). There is a difference in stature of the men you compare. Similar questions would be asked were you to compare AK Anthony and Jayalalitha -- I leave it up to you on deciding whether it is casteism, religion or just reputation.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Avinash R » 05 Nov 2009 13:15

Rahul Mehta wrote:2. And when someone makes allegations against dalit, tribal, OBC neta/judges like Raja, Yadav, Koda or Dinakaran, the same proof-seeking articulate people disappear without leaving a trace.

If you read the news, the case against dinakaran was brought by SC farmers of TN after he allegedly encroached their farmlands. So next time when you try your upper-lower caste BS please check the facts and dont make a fool of yourself.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Rahul Mehta » 05 Nov 2009 13:26

Rahul Mehta: ABV (a Brahmin) had kicked out Jagmohan from Telecom Ministry in 1999 and then favored Reliance Infocom in unethical ways for unknown amount of bribes ABV got from Mukeshbhai. In another incident not related with telecome but surely related with the saga of corruption in India, ABV has released Latvia/British terrorists in Purulia case for unknown amounts of bribes he received from Russian Mafia and British MI5. And when I made these allegations on BR, the articulate people here demanded proofs, and some also demanded ban on me for making allegation without proofs. I wonder why these articulate people dont demand proofs when allegations against a Dalit Minister is made without proof. Why do I smell a casteism in the arguments of the learned ones and the articulates?

viv: Mehtaji, could it be your hyperactive imagination generating the fumes of casteism that you smell ? :). There is a difference in stature of the men you compare. Similar questions would be asked were you to compare AK Anthony and Jayalalitha -- I leave it up to you on deciding whether it is casteism, religion or just reputation.


Well, I cant reply in detail, because I smell some people itching to make "thread hijack" allegation (as if this thread is worth ransom).

But thats exactly my point. When a UC leader like ABV gets into murky deals and takes bribes, the story is pushed aside as "imagination" and his stature remains high. And when a dalit/tribal Minister indulges in murky deals, immediately tons of mud is thrown on him and his stature become zero. Btw, till 2000 AD, stature was bought by giving bribes/benefits to mediamen. Other than that, there was no stature.

Forget ABV, the great leader with "great stature". Lets consider Pramod. Pramod was at least twice as corrupt as Koda, Raja, Dinakaran and there was never a raid on him, never a demand of inquiry, he was always a highly respected leader and he was referred as "Laxman". And also had an elegant seven star X-rated life style, which I cant describe on this PG-13 forum. But newspapers and articulate people (on BR as well as outside BR) did not throw even 1% of mud that is being thrown on Koda, Dinakaran, Raja etc. Is there anything except caste that I am missing?

Well, I wont discuss this further, because I smell "thread hijack" allegation brewing.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby a_bharat » 05 Nov 2009 13:52


Tanaji
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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Tanaji » 05 Nov 2009 14:39

Class Neta style arguments...

When logical reasoning fails, bring in the caste factor and scream discrimination based on caste.

Good going Rahul "netaji" Mehta, you are on the fast track to become a Neta now.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Tanaji » 05 Nov 2009 14:45

When a upper caste judge/neta such as Khare/ABV takes a highly unethical, illegal and corrupt decision, and when I accuse them of bribery, many articulate people (yourself included) immediately jump in , demand links, sources and proofs behind allegations, make cries that such allegations must not be made without proofs and some (not you) demand ban on me for making allegation of bribery against ABV, Khare etc


You are liar. Will you stop attributing nonsense to me?

Prove it with quotes on this board that I have favoured upper caste judges/netas and have demanded separate standards based on caste. This is quite a serious accusation you have made against me, and I demand you prove your case or retract your words. And please dont respond with "I am against your RTI-xxx so automatically I am pro upper caste" type of arguments.

For the record, my view is all political parties are corrupt, they would not function otherwise, it is basic economics. You should read some of my views on BJP sometime.

Furnish proof that I discriminate based on caste on this thread, or apologize.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Suraj » 05 Nov 2009 22:16

Rahul Mehta: you are on very thin ice here. Blanket accusations of casteism against fellow forumites will earn you a warning if you continue.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Rahul Mehta » 06 Nov 2009 07:10

Will post replies in neta-babu thread.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Dileep » 06 Nov 2009 07:21

Rahul Mehta wrote:Will post replies in neta-babu thread.

:rotfl:

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby suryag » 06 Nov 2009 08:26

^^^ Ahh the quintessential RM rant

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Singha » 06 Nov 2009 21:26

lightreading.com

ndia is set to reach the 500 million mobile line landmark well before the end of 2009 as the appetite for new connections continues unabated.

According to the latest figures from the Telecom Regulatory Authority of India (TRAI) , the country's mobile operators activated 14.98 million new wireless lines during September, taking the country's total to 471.7 million.

At the current rate of demand, India's 500 millionth mobile line is set to come online some time around the end of November.
............
As India's near 1.2 billion inhabitants turn to mobile services for their voice connections, so the country's fixed-line market continues to shrink. Another 20,000 fixed lines were decommissioned during September, leaving the countrywide total at just 37.31 million.

Fixed broadband, at least, is still growing, though still not at a fast pace. The number of broadband lines of 256 kbit/s or more stood at 7.22 million at the end of September, an increase of 240,000 during the month.

With fixed and mobile connections combined, India had 509 million lines at the end of September, giving the country an overall teledensity of 43.5 percent.

— Ray Le Maistre, International News Editor, Light Reading

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Singha » 06 Nov 2009 21:30

what is the combined population of families in the biggest 25 indian cities who can afford the 500/pm
needed for a basic 256kbps DSL line?

I figure we can bag around 50 mil bband lines in this cachement area if right incentives and campaigns are run. as yet I do not see any public service ad in print or TV extolling the virtues of
bband in helping your kids get smarter, ace their exams, get into IAS, clear JEE, get a fairer skin and such indic fetishes :twisted:

one has to target both people's needs and fears ideally both to gain traction.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Tanaji » 06 Nov 2009 22:31

Do you still need to pay per min connection charge if you have broadband?

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Singha » 06 Nov 2009 22:34

bband (dsl) or cable by definition does not need a telephone call active. the per-min conn thing is a legacy thing - 53k dialup analog lines.

DSL uses a different part of the spectrum on same wire.

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Suraj » 06 Nov 2009 22:52

Experience with BSNL ADSL in Cochin was quite decent. About 200-256Kbps during daytime and more so at night, with the basic rate plan (don't recall the specifics). The BSNL guy spoke about higher speed rate plans, along with unlimited download plans. The line was quite stable all day/night .

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Re: Indian Telecom Folder

Postby Abhijeet » 07 Nov 2009 04:35

BSNL has long waiting times from what I hear, and I think they are the only one with broadband in the Rs.500/month range. Airtel's cheapest 256 kbps plan is Rs.799, and I think Tata Indicom is similar. Not sure about Reliance.

Here is an estimate: Rs.6000 per year must represent less than 5% of a family's pre-tax income to be an affordable price. (For comparison, $40 per month - roughly $500 per year - is about 1% of the average American family's $45,000 income.) So the target population is families with incomes above Rs.1.2 lakh a year. In Tier I and II cities, that should be quite affordable, so we should have far more broadband connections than we do now.

I think the number of "broadbandable" phone or cable lines is the real hurdle, along with the fact that the ISPs provide poor speeds for too high a cost.


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