India-US News and Discussion

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 10 Nov 2009 12:19

unkil wont let our intel agencies question the l-e-t pigs
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 214694.cms

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 10 Nov 2009 12:33

derkonig wrote:unkil wont let our intel agencies question the l-e-t pigs
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 214694.cms

Somehow that is not surprising. But at least the LeT plot was not allowed to proceed by the FBI. So that is a positive indicator.

WASHINGTON: A team of Indian intelligence officials left the US disappointed after a week-long stay here as they could not question American national David Coleman Headley, arrested by the FBI on charges of plotting a major terror attack in India at the behest of Pakistan-based LeT.

Malayappan · Post by **Malayappan** » 10 Nov 2009 18:45

Apologies if already posted elsewhere!

Not sure if this is the appropriate thread - the Paki connection is not yet in the news. We should move to Paki Role in Terrorism thread as soon as it is out!

Now to the article in WaPo

Fort Hood suspect warned of threats within the ranks
Cited stress facing Muslims Hasan spoke at Walter Reed in 2007
Maj. Nidal M. Hasan gave a presentation at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in 2007.

By Dana Priest, Tuesday, November 10, 2009, The Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03618.html

Some excerpts -

The title of Hasan's PowerPoint presentation was "The Koranic World View As It Relates to Muslims in the U.S. Military." It consisted of 50 slides. In one slide, Hasan described the presentation's objectives as identifying "what the Koran inculcates in the minds of Muslims and the potential implications this may have for the U.S. military."

The last bullet point on that page reads simply: "We love death more then [sic] you love life!"

Under the "Conclusions" page, Hasan wrote that "Fighting to establish an Islamic State to please God, even by force, is condoned by the Islam," and that "Muslim Soldiers should not serve in any capacity that renders them at risk to hurting/killing believers unjustly -- will vary!"

The final page, labeled "Recommendation," contained only one suggestion:
"Department of Defense should allow Muslims [sic] Soldiers the option of being released as 'Conscientious objectors' to increase troop morale and decrease adverse events."

It is unclear whether anyone in attendance reported the briefing to counterintelligence or law enforcement authorities whose job it is to identify threats from within the military ranks.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 10 Nov 2009 21:38

^^^^ Here is direct link to that power point presentation:
click it

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Nov 2009 23:33

If you de-construct the arguments against the health care reform the core ideology of US comes out and its not pretty. One question to explore is how and why Europe was able to pass health care reform but not US?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 10 Nov 2009 23:44

The Fort Hood gunman had revealed a hard-line Islamist streak to acquaintances in the Muslim Community Center that he made his mosque. ...From Asra Nomani's blog:
Inside the Gunman's Mosque

Not long ago, inside the quiet library of the Muslim Community Center here in Silver Spring, Maryland, a suburb of Washington, D.C., Golam Akhter, a local Bangladeshi-American civil engineer, 67, got into a fierce debate with a young Muslim doctor over how to interpret the concept of “jihad” within Islam. Akhter argued, “Jihad means an inner struggle, fighting against corruption and injustice.”

The young doctor[Hasan] responded. “That’s not a correct interpretation. Jihad means holy war. When your religion isn’t safe, you have to fight for it. If someone attacks you, you must fight them. That is jihad. You can kill someone who is harming you.”

A closer look reveals a complex picture of a young first-generation American Muslim man living a life of dissonance between his identity as an American and his ideology as a Muslim who had accepted a literal, rigid interpretation of Islam.

No one in the mosque responded with concerns about Hasan’s extremist views. Rather, when he had distributed the newspaper article, Akther said, a member of the mosque yelled at him, charging him with causing “fitna” in the ummah.
Two years later, this past Friday after the Fort Hood massacre, TV crews and journalists thronged the yard of the mosque with questions about the religious identity of one man: Maj. Hasan.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Nov 2009 23:48

All those who are now revealing stuff about Malik can they be charged with accessory to the crime for being silent when they knew the guy was turning hardcore Islamist?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 11 Nov 2009 00:04

^^^^ Don't know... but just an example.. one New Mexico-born, Colorado State University-educated, Imam Anwar Al-Awlaki
who still in his blog praising Hasan ... at least 3 of 9/11 hijackers in addition to Hasan went to the mosque when he was Imam.. Not only that He lived with one hijacker (who flew into Pentagon) and was best friend with other Hijacker in California .... (All documented in 9/11 report and many main stream news papers)

Still .. according to this:

A spokesman for the mosque downplayed possible links. Imam Johari Abdul-Malik, outreach director at Dar al Hijrah, said he did not know whether Major Hasan ever attended the mosque ......... Mr Abdul-Malik said the Hasans were not leaders at the mosque and their attendance was utterly normal....Mr Abdul-Malik said that it was a mistake for people to conflate regular attendance at a mosque with extremism..

BTW: Al-Awlkai was in US after 9/11.. though authorities knew that he was close associate with at least three of the 9/11 hijackers...

Umrao Das · Post by **Umrao Das** » 11 Nov 2009 00:08

thats called threading (of raised eye brows)

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 11 Nov 2009 01:00

ramana wrote:If you de-construct the arguments against the health care reform the core ideology of US comes out and its not pretty. One question to explore is how and why Europe was able to pass health care reform but not US?

White Americans didn't, and to a good extent still don't want poor blacks and browns taking advantage of universal health care or other facilities. At that time (1950s through 70s or so) European countries and Canada were mostly white, and so there was nothing racial to interfere with their sense of national solidarity, which you would need to make a welfare state work.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 11 Nov 2009 01:05

ramana wrote:All those who are now revealing stuff about Malik can they be charged with accessory to the crime for being silent when they knew the guy was turning hardcore Islamist?

Wonder what proportion of these 'radical' guys are western-born, or Arabic (where the cultural influence of the West is more pervasive and overt than say, India till the '90s) versus people who have interacted with Hindus as a majority, as in India. Is there some data correlating Jihadi actors with their degree of contact with Hindus?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 11 Nov 2009 02:05

Liked Obama words from the ceremony at Fortt Hood:
link

....It may be hard to comprehend the twisted logic that led to this tragedy. But this much we do know – no faith justifies these murderous and craven acts; no just and loving God looks upon them with favor. And for what he has done, we know that the killer will be met with justice – in this world, and the next....
.

Also no longer "border region" instead of explicit mention of the land of pure:

...These are trying times for our country. In Afghanistan and Pakistan, the same extremists who killed nearly 3,000 Americans continue to endanger America...,

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 11 Nov 2009 02:15

ramana wrote:If you de-construct the arguments against the health care reform the core ideology of US comes out and its not pretty. One question to explore is how and why Europe was able to pass health care reform but not US?

One reason is that Europe does not argue in circles all the time about what 'Founding Fathers' would have done in any given situation.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Nov 2009 03:02

SwamyG wrote:
ramana wrote:If you de-construct the arguments against the health care reform the core ideology of US comes out and its not pretty. One question to explore is how and why Europe was able to pass health care reform but not US?
One reason is that Europe does not argue in circles all the time about what 'Founding Fathers' would have done in any given situation.

europe was traumatised after ww2, the blue collars had fought the war, they demanded to be looked after. there was a major social change, the welfare state was demanded and received, power shifted from the aristocracy to the bourgeousie

S.Gautam · Post by **S.Gautam** » 11 Nov 2009 03:39

The Americans are also more individualistic. Many of the well-off don't want to pay for others' bills and many of the poor, even though they would benefit, admire this principle and hope to become rich themselves rather than rely on the state. Seems to work out in general - they have by far the more innovative companies and about 40 of the world's top 50 universities (with a mere 300 million people to Europe's 730 million). Healthcare is the exception I guess. The numbers (% GDP spending vs outcome) are pretty glaring. Hopefully this newfound appetite for big government sends the US down a slippery slope into a stagnant welfare state - we can have a bipolar world (India and China) rather than a tripolar one.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 11 Nov 2009 03:52

THE BEST AND THE WORST- AFGHANISTAN WILL BE THE CHALLENGE WHEN SINGH MEETS OBAMA - K.P. Nayar

...
Some of Obama’s close advisers on South Asia vividly remember a wintry December morning last year, only weeks after his historic victory in the 2008 presidential election, when an Indian with considerable influence over the United Progressive Alliance government’s policies on Afghanistan and Pakistan plainly told a Track-II meeting in Washington that if the incoming Democratic administration appointed a special envoy for India and Pakistan, he would be considered persona non grata and denied a visa to travel to New Delhi. In the end, it was that bold and unambiguous statement, albeit delivered unofficially, that persuaded the president in White House to trim Richard Holbrooke’s mandate and exclude India when he was appointed special envoy for what eventually came to be known only as AfPak.

Notwithstanding New Delhi’s known opposition to bracketing India along with Pakistan and Afghanistan, there are many policy-makers in the Obama administration who believe that the US cannot win the war in Afghanistan unless they also push for a solution to Kashmir and that the problem of a failing state in Pakistan cannot be adequately addressed unless New Delhi and Islamabad are nudged towards a reconciliation.
...

Consider this. On paper, Richard Holbrooke is Obama’s point man for Afghanistan. He goes to Islamabad with the US secretary of state on Hillary Clinton’s just-concluded visit to Pakistan. Coincidentally, the election process in Afghanistan has drawn to a conclusion, and Hamid Karzai has been re-elected to another term as president. But Holbrooke is unable to go to Kabul, at least on the pretence of assessing the post-election scenario, because Karzai will not even see him.
...
...
Despite the Pentagon’s known disdain for Holbrooke, he manages to appoint his protégé, Robin Raphel, to the lucrative, Islamabad-based job of deciding how the massive new assistance to Pakistan of $7.5 billion in the next five years should be spent and who should get the money. Raphel, known to most Indians as the assistant secretary of state who questioned Kashmir’s instrument of accession to India, is an ‘FoB’ or Friend of Bill and equally close to the former president’s wife, Hillary Clinton. Even if Obama wanted to get rid of Holbrooke, the president will not be able to do so because the special envoy has made himself indispensable in Islamabad, but he is hated in Kabul, and there is no love lost between him and his Indian interlocutors.
...
...
In 2001 and 2002, as then president, George W. Bush, was preparing to wage war in Iraq, there was little understanding in India that the Bush enterprise against Saddam Hussein would turn out to be disastrous on multiple counts. Similarly, there is lack of comprehension now in New Delhi that the Obama administration intends to eventually legitimize the Taliban: what Washington is looking for is a way to put the best front on that eventuality and justify such an about-turn. With 55 American troops dead in Afghanistan in a month, October has been the deadliest month for the US forces since the war started there in 2001. In addition, the last three months accounted for a quarter of all battlefield injuries in Afghanistan in the previous eight years.
...
..
Obama will have no desire to follow Lyndon Johnson and withdraw from the re-election campaign or be defeated because his country is stuck in a quagmire in Afghanistan. That may require making peace with the Taliban on its terms, and dealing with Afghanistan on that premise may be one of the challenges that the prime minister will face as he meets Obama in the White House.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Nov 2009 08:12

SwamyG wrote:
ramana wrote:If you de-construct the arguments against the health care reform the core ideology of US comes out and its not pretty. One question to explore is how and why Europe was able to pass health care reform but not US?
One reason is that Europe does not argue in circles all the time about what 'Founding Fathers' would have done in any given situation.

The key is those 39 Democrats who voted against the bill. Try to find their reasons.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Nov 2009 10:05

SwamyG wrote:
One reason is that Europe does not argue in circles all the time about what 'Founding Fathers' would have done in any given situation.

There is a distrust of progressive politics since they have changed the southern society by freeing the slaves and also giving civil rights.
American bankers have funded progressive politics in other countries and also funded the communist movement.
Europe after WWI and WWII is a re engineered continent with progressive politics as a standard politics. Current generation have no idea of anything else or the aristocratic politics of pre WWI

The key is those 39 Democrats who voted against the bill. Try to find their reasons.

Lyndon Johnson memoirs says that in return for favoring the civil rights the southern states were not projected as states exploiting slaves. He is also remembered for his Great Society policies where Medicare, Medicaid, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and 1968 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 were passed among other programs.
Johnson created the Great Society programs which included antipoverty programs, civil rights legislation, the creation of Medicare and Medicaid, the passage of some environmental protection acts, and the creation of laws to help protect consumers.
Three important pieces of Civil Rights legislation were as follows: 1. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 which did not allow discrimination in employment or in the use of public facilities. 2. The Voting Rights Act of 1965 which outlawed discriminatory practicese that kept blacks fromm voting. 3. The Civil Rights Act of 1968 which outlawed discrimination for housing. Also during Johnson's administration, Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated in 1968.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Nov 2009 10:12

So while Lincoln emancipated the slaves, LB Johnson emancipated Southern society as a whole and made them legitimate to participate in national dialogue.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 11 Nov 2009 21:07

No More Muslims in the U.S. Military

American Family Association Advocates Banning Muslims from Military

http://74.125.155.132/search?client=saf ... 8&oe=UTF-8

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 12 Nov 2009 00:53

Obama appoints Rajiv Shah to head USAID
or from tribune's blog

Barack Obama nominate an administrator for USAID: Dr. Rajiv Shah, a physician who is serving as a deputy secretary at the Department of Agriculture.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Nov 2009 01:00

We need to know how many high profile desi appointmenst have been made in this Admin?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 12 Nov 2009 01:37

Apart from Rajiv shah, recently Suresh Kumar(assistant secretary of commerce ) was in the news Link

On Important posts one can also think of
Aneesh Chopra (the Chief Technology officer), Vivek Kundra ( Chief Information Officer), Sonal Shah (head of the Office of Social Innovation .. Civic Participation) .. also Kal Penn, Madhuri Kommareddi, Neal Katyal, Neera Tanden, Nick Rathod, Preeta Bansal, Hari Sevugan ... there may be others..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Nov 2009 01:50

And Ro Khanna, Deputy Asst Secy of Commerce.

Met Ro Khanna and Vivek Kundra at a desi get together a while back.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 Nov 2009 05:58

US bends rules, India-baiter Raphel named for Pak aid job

The US decision to appoint Robin Raphel as coordinator for non-military aid to Pakistan has run into controversy over conflict of interest with latest disclosures from a lobbying firm where she worked earlier clearly stating that she had been an active lobbyist for Pakistan until a few days before her appointment.
...
...
Before this, she had been working with lobbying firm Cassidy and Associates which had a $1.2-million contract with the Pakistan government of which receipts of $350,500 have been shown in the last quarter. This has raised questions over conflict of interest norms that the Obama administration has so strictly applied, and on which the President has taken a clear public position from the start of his presidency.

...
As coordinator for non-military assistance to Pakistan, she will be involved in disbursing funds made available through the very legislations she lobbied for while at Cassidy. While the State Department is said to have taken the position that she may not be a full-time employee, the jury is still out on whether Obama’s code of ethics will apply on her or not. New Delhi, which has always had concerns with Raphel being included in Holbrooke’s team, is keenly watching the issue.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 12 Nov 2009 06:35

Immigration Critic and Outsourcing Opponent Lou Dobbs Leaving CNN:

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2 ... epart-cnn/

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 12 Nov 2009 21:01

Not sure where to add it, I have added here.

India to demand extradition of Headley

India will also press for extradition of both Headley and his associate Rana as 'there is enough evidence to link the duo to LeT', Home ministry sources said.

Ankit

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 13 Nov 2009 03:00

Inerview with Seymour Hersh. He clearly points out that Khan has more access in TSP's butt, than they talk about.

And Oxford Dictionary has to have a new word inscribed now - "Frenemy".

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 13 Nov 2009 03:17

Where are the Pakistani tunnels.
Are they in Sargodha or the Kahuta.

Can they link with tunnel - Pindi, Sargodha and Kahuta

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 13 Nov 2009 03:19

Akshut wrote: Inerview with Seymour Hersh. He clearly points out that Khan has more access in TSP's butt, than they talk about.

And Oxford Dictionary has to have a new word inscribed now - "Frenemy".

Or, as the Islamists like to say, "the frenemy of my frenemy is my frenemy"

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 13 Nov 2009 03:20

Acharya wrote:Where are the Pakistani tunnels.
Are they in Sargodha or the Kahuta.

Can they link with tunnel - Pindi, Sargodha and Kahuta

incidentally, the north koreans are expert tunnellers, particularly in hard granite rocks. there are apparently 14-17 invasion tunnels dig under the DMZ, of which only 4 have been discovered. this tech would have been of use to the paks

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 13 Nov 2009 09:42

What a heading...."From Islamabad to Worse"

Somebody at MSNBC must be reading BRF.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 13 Nov 2009 10:00

Here is the link to the New Yorker's story about TSP's arsenal by Seymore Hersh
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009 ... fact_hersh

anuj · Post by **anuj** » 13 Nov 2009 12:16

Headley's Rahul identified as filmmaker Mahesh Bhatt's son

The mysterious name, Rahul, mentioned extensively in LeT operative David Coleman Headley's e-mails to his associates in Pakistan has been identified. He is son of famed filmmaker Mahesh Bhatt, says media reports.

Rahul Bhatt, 25, a fitness freak was a friend of Headley, who was arrested by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in Chicago last month along with a Canadian citizen of Pak origin Tahawwur Rana, at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport on charges of plotting terror attacks on India and Denmark.

Sources reveal that Bhatt has admitted that he knew Headley but he didn't know his actual background.

It has also been revealed that it was Rahul who helped Headley rent a flat near Breach Candy hospital in Mumbai.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 13 Nov 2009 22:02

I listened to the Seymour Hersh interview on NPR yesterday. Please listen to the whole thing, it's very illuminating.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =120346497

One astonishing revelation was the bribe that the Americans gave TSPA, in exchange for American troops gaining access to Paki nuclear weapon sites as per his New Yorker article. (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009 ... fact_hersh)

According to Hersh, between 29th April and 1st May, a deal was struck between the Obama administration and the TSPA/ISI that, in the event of a threat of Pakistani nukes being seized by anti-US factions, the TSPA would share all relevant information and give full access to American forces to move in and secure Pakistan's crown jewels. That much we already know from the article.

The "price" was appropriated, very quickly and efficiently, by US Congress at the behest of Admiral Mike Mullen on May 1st.

It is a "special fund" from contingency moneys of 1.1 BILLION USD that has been provided to the Pakistan army. With NO control over disbursement by the State Department or any other GOTUS agency except the Pentagon. Meaning, no strings attached. We all know what it will be used for.

This explains a few things. First, it explains why such a lot of noise was made about the Kerry-Lugar bill, specifically around the "usage restrictions" contained in that bill. The drama served to highlight the claim that US aid to Pakistan was "responsible" and "contingent on good behaviour by Pakistan with regard to sponsoring terrorism", etc. All this while a vast amount of money was being given to the TSPA with no conditions attached at all... but the K-L drama was such an effective diversion that the blood money almost went by completely unnoticed. If it hadn't been for Hersh we wouldn't have noticed it at all.

The second thing it explains is why the Pakistanis responded with outraged disbelief, when Hillary Clinton tried to claim that it wasn't possible for America to give Pakistan $7.5 Billion aid without Congressional monitoring to ensure compliance by Pakistan of the conditions, because "this is the way things are done in America" etc. Obviously that is not how things are always done, and the Pakistanis know it. They have been given 1.1 Billion without any restrictions, so why should they believe that US law requires restrictions on the 7.5 Billion? It's bull$hit and even the Pakis know it.

Of course, the disbursement of that $7.5 billion in "non-military" aid is being presided over by Robin Raphel. Raphel is a professional lobbyist for Pakistan. She is the same person who saw Chinese M-11 missiles arriving in Islamabad, and with a straight face informed Washington that there was no evidence of any proliferation activity or MTCR violations by the Pakistanis. So we can only speculate what she will report this time.

One fact, however, is unavoidable and incontrovertible. The Barack Hussein Obama administration has paid the Terrorist State of Pakistan 1.1 Billion USD which the Pakistanis can and will use to kill Indian citizens. The Obama administration has done so with full awareness that the Pakistanis have used such gifts of money in the past, to kill Indian citizens.

Obama supporters who have the courage to shake off their denial, should think hard about that when the next terrorist attack comes. It may have been paid for by your tax dollars, thanks to your President.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 13 Nov 2009 22:41

ramana wrote:We need to know how many high profile desi appointmenst have been made in this Admin?

Apparently Husain Haqqani is bothered by that too

He [Husain Haqqan] mentioned that India was Boeing’s largest customer, and also that 26 members of the Obama administration were Indian-American. “Facts like these naturally make the Pakistan nervous,” the envoy said.

From a post by SSridhar in the other thread..
Pak anti-terror role not recognised properly: Haqqani

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Nov 2009 22:52

I find it interesting that you phrase my question as "bothered" and link the TSP Amby's hallucinations in same sentence.

Seems to be you see no difference.

Thanks for giving the pisko insight into your world view.

Umrao Das · Post by **Umrao Das** » 13 Nov 2009 23:06

Lalmohan wrote:
Acharya wrote:Where are the Pakistani tunnels.
Are they in Sargodha or the Kahuta.

Can they link with tunnel - Pindi, Sargodha and Kahuta
incidentally, the north koreans are expert tunnellers, particularly in hard granite rocks. there are apparently 14-17 invasion tunnels dig under the DMZ, of which only 4 have been discovered. this tech would have been of use to the paks

Most important connection you are missing here Unkil gave tunnel technology to PAkis and Osama during the Jihad against eveil USSR in Afghanistan.

The same was transferred to N Korea for indeginzation and local conditions.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 14 Nov 2009 00:44

ramana wrote:I find it interesting that you phrase my question as "bothered" and link the TSP Amby's hallucinations in same sentence.

Seems to be you see no difference.

Thanks for giving the pisko insight into your world view.

Ramana - sorry did not understand what exactly you mean by "pisko insight inside my world view"?

In any case, I quoted your post, just because I found it really amusing the appointments are causing taqleef to TSP's Amby .. as much as that he has to show it and admit that it is "naturally making Pakistan nervous"
Not to mention last time Sonal Sha's appointment caused a major taqleef to Paki lobbyists when they complained about "terrorist appointed by Obama's" (Kid you not that was actually a headline referring to some supposedly some connection between Sonal Shah's and BJP)

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 14 Nov 2009 01:42

Wasn't Haqqani removed from his post as TSP's ambassador to the US? After the Kerry-Lugar dhamaal? Or was there just a lot of baying for his blood at the time which he managed to survive?