India-Australia News and Discussion

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 25 Oct 2009 08:07

http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20091024/9 ... paign.html

Australia was one of the few Western countries that did not have a charter of rights

A report by AHRC sometime back highlighted "a lack of constitutional protection against racial discrimination in Australia" and talks about "absence of any entrenched guarantee against racial discrimination that would override the law of the Commonwealth".

I wonder why cant the babus in GOI and the DDM highlight the above. India would have been shown in poor light if it happened here.

vina · Post by **vina** » 25 Oct 2009 09:13

Certainly any assault is a criminal act and should be punished by the courts, but the angry rhetoric I have read regarding convicts, white supremacy etc. seems to stand at odds with the ancestry of many (but by no means all) of the attackers.

Well, just because it is an "equal opportunity" open season on Indians because the perpertrators were Blacks, Asians, Pacific Islanders and of course Whites doesnt make it any better. It is a more damning indictment of Australian society at large.

Lets face it. Australian society , alteast the overwhelming bulk of it is congenitally racist. Reports of 70 people (I would bet they were all white) ganging up and beating 3 peoply who were just shooting pool in a bar or some bunch of white yobs randomly beating up Indians in the park or just hurling abuse (and in one case picking on the "wrong" set of Indians and getting it back) really holds up a mirror to Australian society.

Australia in many aspects is a "White Saudi Arabia" with a similar digging up stuff from the ground and exporting kind of economy, next to zero skills and achivement in anything else , no academic or scientific achievement, have invented nothing, can invent nothing, largely empty deserts physically and also metaphorically (in the head), the difference being Australia probably aping it's more civilized cousins in Euorpe outgrew religious chauvinism, while Saudi is going back to a medieval barbarism, both closed tribalistic cultures and largely inherently violent and abusive to minorities and disempowered people like the Aborigines in Australia and Shias and non Sunni/islamic people in Saudi

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 25 Oct 2009 09:35

As far as I can tell, the attacks are largely the actions of youth gangs from deprived backgrounds who are picking on people who are traveling via public transport through economically backward areas late at night. Hopefully more arrests and convictions of these criminals will continue in the months to come, and I see no reason why it should effect relations between India and Australia in areas of common interest.

This kind of high-flying moralistic nonsense is the reason why Indians are treated as doormats and soft targets. You have to rally behind fellow Indians who are in trouble and not invent stupid self-demeaning rationalisations which you will stop spouting the moment you personally get beaten up by some white racist thugs.

vina · Post by **vina** » 25 Oct 2009 09:44

I see no reason why it should effect relations between India and Australia in areas of common interest

If you mean at political level, yes it wont. However note that Australia's record like the recent vote against Indian on Arunachal Pradesh at the Asian Development Bank in China's support, the withdrawl from the joint exercises with Indian,US and Japanese navies, the entire uraniaum deal and other actions would have been duly noted down and kept in mind. If anything the Indian babus in have elephantine memories. Kevin Rudd's govt screwed up big time . All those antics would have been noted down.

As for the relations at popular levels, Australia-India relationship has taken body blows and is staggering after an punch in belly that sank elbows deep.

The intial Australian reaction to the racist attacks were classic FUD. A long time to even recognize it and when it became unavoidable and became an international PR nightmare because of street protests by Indias, a pathetic attempt at "offensive play" and an attempt to come swing out by putting up some sorry a*ssed Indian Uncle Toms writing in the media of "Oh, how about caste in India and India treats it's own far worse than Australia " kind of nonsense and then trying to waffle under "there was no racist angle" , only an economic/class angle (despite all evidence to the contrary), and finally "Oh , it was the Lebs, Abos, Blacks and other Asian immigrants" (aka, other gooks and darkies), and only when it finally became unsustainable that there were a huge number of white incidents and incidents like not registering complaints even 3 days after an ugly incident backfires really badly because of an activist Indian media taking it up to high decibel prime time on TV!

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 25 Oct 2009 11:06

There is no overarching 'common interest' as such.

We have been getting in some met coke and rare earths ( we have a lot of this in India anyway, just insufficient investment in it) from these dudes for a while. But these SOBs continue to stall on Uranium even though we have people working in their mining sector.

Worst part is, Australia is the biggest upstart/arriviste Gora country and has a rather inflated opinion of itself. the educated out there display a superior attitude similar to what englishmen used to show in the 50's with a "oh we know better" .

They also like to speak of themselves as people who just like to have fun etc.

Karma will be a bitch. Soon.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Oct 2009 11:34

andy B wrote:
chetak wrote: The Indians who go to australia could not get into the us of a ( even if they donated their bodies to science) These less qualified Indians often compete and and many times take away low paying local jobs from the aussies or other immigrants because they are willing to work for less money.
Errr...Chetak saar by the above logique I and many of my other Indian friends who immigrated here should quit our office jobs and start working as supermarket trolley pushers and parking attendants and also quit my post grad CFA studies (which incidentally is an amrikhan designation)

Sorry. Let me try and explain.

I too have many qualified friends who emigrated to aus in the old days and are in very comfortable positions achieved after very hard work.

But these days it seems that aus is seen an a gora place to emigrate because uk / europe and other traditional destinations have tightened up their immigration laws and whatnot.

The lot who go to aus with such intentions ( a vast majority ) are not in the same bracket or league as the amerikan bound Indian lot who usually land up there with expensive and marketable skill sets or for serious post graduate studies. They also ease into the local jobs but at much higher and needed levels thereby causing less ripples of resentment.

There are still some well qualified folks who emigrate to aus but because they immediately slot into a higher income bracket, they stay in better neighborhoods and work on equal terms with similarly qualified aus or other well heeled immigrants, they are accepted maybe grudgingly. These people, you most certainly will not find working " as supermarket trolley pushers and parking attendants ".

The brunt of the aussie violent backlash is from the lower socioeconomic strata which is also the space the present lot of Indians are targeting.

Resentment is inevitable and the affected locals, other immigrant groups or ethnic minorities come out swinging with both fists which is the only way they know how. At this level its mostly brawn and very little brain.

There are only so many supermarket trolley pushers and parking attendants jobs to go around in these days of recession. Would a somali or lebanese reason with you in some unknown language or talk with their fists?

All this logic does not excuse what the aus government is trying to do because only Indians have been affected and the aussies don't really give a toss.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 25 Oct 2009 12:10

I have noticed people using Australia as a gateway to immigrate to the USA. The way this works is that people become Australians first and then take up jobs in the USA using the E-3 visa. It's more a way to get around US immigration restrictions in this case, than about any deficiency in their qualifications as such.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 25 Oct 2009 22:17

krisna wrote:http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20091024/9 ... paign.html

Australia was one of the few Western countries that did not have a charter of rights

A report by AHRC sometime back highlighted "a lack of constitutional protection against racial discrimination in Australia" and talks about "absence of any entrenched guarantee against racial discrimination that would override the law of the Commonwealth".

I wonder why cant the babus in GOI and the DDM highlight the above. India would have been shown in poor light if it happened here.

We are too caught up in Dharma to highlight these kind of things about others.

You are correct Australia does not have Bill of Rights meaning a person does not have right to a hearing, which will sound absurd to us Indians because Indian constitution guarantees equal rights to all Indians regardless of color, creed and national origin. All Indians have right to a court hearing; something as basic as this is denied to many Australians.

Australia was found guilty of human rights violation on 17 different investigations by UN. It is a backward country as far as race relations go.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Oct 2009 22:49

sanjaychoudhry wrote: This kind of high-flying moralistic nonsense is the reason why Indians are treated as doormats and soft targets. You have to rally behind fellow Indians who are in trouble and not invent stupid self-demeaning rationalisations which you will stop spouting the moment you personally get beaten up by some white racist thugs.

how do you know he is Indian ?

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 25 Oct 2009 23:57

Higher education is a big business in Australia, and Indian students are a growing part of that. The Australian government has attempted to protect the reputation of that business by downplaying anti-foreigner element of these attacks.

That isn't going to be enough however.

Otherwise Australia will end up like Russia, a third or fourth tier destination for Indian students studying abroad. Concerns about safety were at least as big as language issues in hurting Russia's ability to draw Indian students.

The fact is that Indian students will be far less willing to study there if they feel insecure, and attacks on other Indians will keep them away. That is after all the aim of these yobs. Unless the rest of Australia gets its act together the yobs will win and Australia will lose. Its that simple.

---------

as an anecdote, I have a Polish relative (by marriage) who settled in Australia after WW II. He was an air force officer who had fought against the Nazis on the Allied side, and was unwelcome in Soviet controlled communist Poland after the war. While they could have remained in the UK, the immediate post-war economic climate was grim, and land in Australia was cheap. They became farmers, and did quite well, mechanising their small family operation and growing out. Although he was a difficult man, the family faced enormous hostility from their neighbours who resented this foreigner, and there were ugly incidents. Their daughter, born in Australia came second in her exams in all of Queensland, and went on to medical college, which she topped. She left Australia in the 1970s, in part because she had never felt at home there. Her Polish relatives in Britain on the other hand remained, and integrated, and the UK continues to attract huge numbers of Poles.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 26 Oct 2009 00:18

I wonder how ppl who play cricket so well can be such boors. But then I remember Hayden and Michael Clarke and Ponting.

Australia 2010 == 1960s Alabama With An Attitude Plus Accent Minus Civility ? Terrible shame. I have always wanted to go see the place and have great admiration for the spirited and determined people there (no pun intended).

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 26 Oct 2009 08:30

What's with Australia proposing India in the proposed East Asian community. Recently their FM said Australia wanted military exercises with India. Is this the fallout of Chinese treatment of Rio Tinto.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... Cy7vGX0JEg

Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd discussed his idea for an “Asia-Pacific Community” that would include the U.S. and India. Japan’s Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama, who took power last month, suggested an “East Asian Community” whose membership has yet to be determined, foreign ministry spokesman Kazuo Kodama said yesterday.

nithish · Post by **nithish** » 05 Nov 2009 03:34

Another Indian student attacked in Australia

In yet another attack on Indians here, an engineering student from the community was racially abused by a group of Australians, including a woman, who also punched him in his left eye.

36-year-old Amrit Goyal, pursuing automotive engineering from the Australian Industrial System Institute here, was attacked in Laverton area, Amit Meghnani, President of Federation of Indian Students of Australia (FISA), told PTI.

Goyal was attacked yesterday outside his house when a group of two men and a woman hurled racial abuses at him and also physically assaulted him.

"I was standing outside my home when two men and one woman approached me. They were shouting abuses at me... I asked them to calm down but they punched me in my left eye. I called the police but they came after an hour and a half. They said they were busy, and would come when they have the time. They have recorded my statement and will ask detectives to probe," Goyal told 'Times Now' channel.

He said the group also threw a stone at him and kept on saying that he should go back to India. He said he has given the descriptions of the attackers to police.

The latest attack came 10 days after a 22-year-old Sikh was punched in his head by a group of Australians, who also removed his turban while he was sleeping at a bus stop here.

Around 30 Indian students were attacked in various Australian cities from June to August.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 05 Nov 2009 23:04

There, and boor mpi thought the Auzzies were boorish only....

Pay the 'underclass' not to breed - NZ mayor

AN outspoken Kiwi politician has proposed a new solution to the country's child abuse problem - pay the "appalling underclass" not to breed.

Michael Laws - who stirred up controversy by calling the late Tongan King a "bloated brown slug'' - has again hit the headlines.

"That there is a group within our society who give their children no hope nor opportunity from the moment that they are born," the regional mayor wrote on the New Zealand radio website where he broadcasts as a talkback DJ.
...
Mr Laws goes on to write: "it would be far better for this appalling underclass to be offered financial inducements not to have children, given the toxic environment that they would provide for any child in their care."

Jai Hor.

Of course, must be couched in acceptable lingo onlee if only as a hedge, no?

The mayor believes "the consequent financial and social savings to our community would be considerable.

"There are too many people who should not have children." {Try preaching that in TSP beardistan.... }

Mr Laws said a report in New Zealand's Dominion-Post newspaper yesterday had incorrectly (?? Really?! in(side) correctly, perhaps ?) attributed the view to him that all those who got welfare should be sterilised.

Wow. Is NZ prepping to deal with the packees and beedees in its midst finally or what?

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 06 Nov 2009 05:22

its for the indigenous people, aka maoris.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Nov 2009 14:24

TOI.

IANS 6 November 2009, 01:41pm IST

MELBOURNE: Over 2,000 international students, including those from India, were left in the lurch - some with barely two weeks to go before they
get their degrees - following the sudden overnight collapse of four private colleges in the Australian cities of Sydney and Melbourne.

Teachers at the colleges run by the Meridian Group were told they were out of jobs on Thursday night, but no one told the students who arrived at campuses on Friday morning to find the doors closed, ABC Online reported.

Several hundred students who gathered outside the group's Melbourne and Sydney colleges were left stunned by the closures.

A student said: "In just two weeks we were going to get our degrees."

Melbourne-based Jass Sandhu says she had no information from the school about the closure.

"Immigration should do something for us. If the college has closed it's not our problem.

"We were studying well, we were paying our dues. We weren't left with any dues, we were paying our dues on right time. What about our future?" she said.

About 2,700 international students were affected, including students about to take their exams.

The students were mainly from India and other Asian countries.

The colleges, located at 13 campuses in Melbourne and Sydney, provide tuition in hospitality, design, English language, fashion and secondary education.

The Global Campus Management/Meridian Group, which runs the four colleges, went into voluntary administration Thursday.

Administrator Stephen Parbery says it is unlikely the group will reopen the schools.

"They have formed the view that the companies are not viable," he was quoted as saying.

Jacinta Allan, Victoria's skills and workforce participation minister, says the government is reviewing legislation covering such colleges.

"The buck stops with the state regulator having oversight, and that is why we are making sure we strengthen the guidelines. We are reviewing the legislation," she told ABC radio.

"This is a company that's made what appears to be a reasonably quick decision on withdrawing their financial support for the ongoing operation of the company.

"The administrators have since come in and moved very quickly to close the schools down, which also causes concerns because of the effect on students."

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 06 Nov 2009 22:59

Singha beat me to posting that. It's really a shocking commentary on how uncivilized Australia really is. Even Alabama has far better standards and business practices than that. The Meridian Group's Board should be arrested and forced to pay for the schools and students until they get their degrees, if the Govt. of Australia is anything better than a bunch of Pakis.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 09 Nov 2009 13:38

India-born doctor's skull heard to crack in Australia attack

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 10 Nov 2009 20:51

NRI bamboozles Oz stock markets.

'Lightning fast buck', 'the fastest gun in the market' and 'high tech trader' are some of the phrases being used by the Australian media to describe the mercurial rise of a derivatives trading whiz-kid, Dinesh 'Danny' Bhandari.

The Indian-origin chief executive of Sydney-based Tibra Capital has caught media attention recently as he debuted on BRW Young Rich List with a 'conservatively-estimated' personal fortune of 40 million Australian dollars ($36.7 million).

Dinesh, 32, has been ranked 40th on the list of 100 young (under 40 years) Australian entrepreneurs that was published a few weeks ago.

What has impressed market pundits even more is the fact that the mercurial rise of the South Australia-born trader has come amidst gloom which engulfed the world economy for most of the year.

The rise and rise of Tibra and its chief executive are based on a high-speed, high-powered derivatives trading software his company executives have developed. The new generation of stock market traders are reported to be using lightning-fast computer programmes which are based on 'secret' algorithms.

The ingenuity of Dinesh and his colleagues has enabled Tibra Capital to return a very impressive annual profit of 57.4 million Australian dollars in 2008. The net profit has, according to the firm's annual report lodged with Australian Securities and Investment Commission on Oct 30, gone up to 77.5 million Australian dollars in 2009.

The net profit looks even more impressive as Tibra Capital was established only three years ago after Dinesh was sacked by The Netherlands- based trading company Optiver. The 32-year-old was so incensed over the departure from Optiver that he reportedly initially called his company FTD or F... the Dutch.

The animosity between his former employer and the Sydney-based trader did not cease with his departure as Optiver has filed a number law suits against Dinesh and his colleagues in Tibra. The BRW Young Rich debutant and his Tibra team were accused of stealing Optiver secrets.

The law suits have failed to dampen Dinesh's appetite for success and the moolah linked with high speed derivatives trading.
The company Dinesh started with just two million Australian dollars has catapulted him among Australia's most admired young entrepreneurs.

According to media reports, Dinesh is a typical sport-loving Australian.
'For me personally, I enjoy a lot of sports, motor sports, cricket and football, all the great Aussie sports, and travel. My wife and I have been to many dozens of fantastic places together so that's something we really enjoy doing,' he was quoted as saying by Sydney Morning Herald newspaper recently.

'It's nothing glamorous; we just like getting the job done, and the rewards aren't necessarily obvious to everybody but they're certainly obvious to us,' the Tibra chief added.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 11 Nov 2009 06:44

The European Union expressed regret on Tuesday at a decision by Fiji's military leader to expel top envoys from Australia and New Zealand, and urged the Pacific Island nation not to isolate itself.

http://bigpondnews.com/articles/World/2 ... 92584.html

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 11 Nov 2009 07:43

Kevin Rudd to visit India.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 216531.cms

Aussie PM to arrive on damage control visit

As foreign ministry officials admit, the onus now is solely on Rudd, who speaks Mandarin fluently and is known for his fondness for China, to come up with measures which could build confidence in India and provide impetus to a relationship which could be crucial for building peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific. Rudd will meet PM Manmohan Singh on Thursday.

Immediately after taking over in 2007, Rudd's Labour government reversed the earlier John Howard government's decision to sell uranium to India and also turned its back on the Quadrilateral Initiative -- comprising Australia, India, Japan and the US -- apparently to keep Beijing in good humour.

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 11 Nov 2009 07:55

MELBOURNE: Over 2,000 international students, including those from India, were left in the lurch - some with barely two weeks to go before they
get their degrees - following the sudden overnight collapse of four private colleges in the Australian cities of Sydney and Melbourne.

Surprised that TOI did not add the Government response to the Meridian closure. Or should I be? Why spoil a perfectly good 'we are victim only' story

http://www.deewr.gov.au/ministers/gilla ... 62422.aspx

Ms Gillard said that the first concern is for the students, particularly those currently undergoing their HSC or VCE examinations, and that the State Governments have already put in place arrangements to ensure those students will be catered for with the minimum of disruption.

International students studying at the colleges are covered by a comprehensive safety net, with the first preference being a place in another similar course at a different institution if possible.

Where a place cannot be found, the Education Services for Overseas Students (ESOS) Act guarantees the students will receive a refund of their outstanding fees.

No student will be left without either a place at a different college, or a refund.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 11 Nov 2009 08:00

arnab wrote: Or should I be? Why spoil a perfectly good 'we are victim only' story

But will they be able to complete the coursework on time, or should they waste one more semester? Will anyone include the cost of emotional pain of such matters? Oh yea, victims should nt have those, after all, no?

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 11 Nov 2009 08:19

Stan_Savljevic wrote:
arnab wrote: Or should I be? Why spoil a perfectly good 'we are victim only' story
But will they be able to complete the coursework on time, or should they waste one more semester? Will anyone include the cost of emotional pain of such matters? Oh yea, victims should nt have those, after all, no?

But saar -I do understand the emosional atyaachaar of the students, but is that the government's problem? You go to some dodgy private college - your risk I'm afraid. Having said that - must say the governement has woken up to the pitfalls of getting easy money through foreign students usually lured in by local agents.

In an equivalent scenario - do study Outlook's exposure of IIPM (Indian Institute of Planning and Management) in the heart of Delhi and the actions taken thereof.

http://careers360.com/news/3067-IIPM-Be ... -in-claims

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 11 Nov 2009 08:31

arnab wrote: I do understand the emosional atyaachaar of the students, but is that the government's problem?

Well, that should be the problem of Govt of Timbuktu onree, sorry.

You go to some dodgy private college - your risk I'm afraid.

Yes, my risk onree. But if I choose to whine about it loudly so that I raise a stink all the way across Yindia, that is also my prerogative. If a friendly ddm bats for me, I am more than happy to raise more stink too. May be the folks in Canberra should talk to the pakis and get some counsel on how to win some friendly PR attention, instead of sucking up for Rio Tinto every fricking second they are awake. But but, that is expecting boors to grow some brain, sorry not possible for awhile.

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 11 Nov 2009 08:44

Stan_Savljevic wrote:
arnab wrote: I do understand the emosional atyaachaar of the students, but is that the government's problem?
Well, that should be the problem of Govt of Timbuktu onree, sorry.

You go to some dodgy private college - your risk I'm afraid.
Yes, my risk onree. But if I choose to whine about it loudly so that I raise a stink all the way across Yindia, that is also my prerogative. If a friendly ddm bats for me, I am more than happy to raise more stink too. May be the folks in Canberra should talk to the pakis and get some counsel on how to win some friendly PR attention, instead of sucking up for Rio Tinto every fricking second they are awake. But but, that is expecting boors to grow some brain, sorry not possible for awhile.

oh I have no problem with that if that is indeed the strategy. Unfortunately people start believing their own rhetoric and then it gets tiresome

p.s. may be it is a problem for Timbuktu. letting dodgy colleges operate certainly does not seem to raise a stink anywhere else

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 11 Nov 2009 08:57

arnab wrote: oh I have no problem with that if that is indeed the strategy. Unfortunately people start believing their own rhetoric and it gets tiresome

What else do you think is going on? The only battle that matters is the PR battle. From a friendly source, ensoi, only selected tidbits

Dear Colleagues,

Earlier this month a delegation of Uni**** colleagues travelled to India. The visit was long-planned and focussed on building relationships with universities and academic institutes throughout the country, exploring future opportunities for research in fields affecting both nations. As it happened, controversy over the treatment of Indian students in Australia made the visit particularly timely.
......
Yet amid the many positive messages about research collaboration, it was impossible to miss the anger expressed in the Indian media about violence against students in Australia. Indeed, it was sobering to watch graphic TV footage and reporting of attacks on members of the Indian community at Epping while waiting at Delhi Airport. The item contended with India's relations with Pakistan to dominate the evening bulletin. The Epping attacks follow a series of violent assaults on Indian students. Recent violence in Western Melbourne has targeted victims of Indian appearance out of proportion to their share of the population. Many in India have no doubt this is the result of racism.

Victimisation of Indian students may be the action of a tiny minority but it is important to understand the depth of concern. The impact of extensive media coverage was much evident during the visit. One distressed mother spoke emotionally in a public meeting about her fears for her son, currently a graduate student at the Uni***. Though her son rings almost every day to assure his parents of his safety and enjoyment at being in Melbourne, first-hand accounts from a family member are not enough to off-set the messages from television and newspaper coverage.

Much has been said about the potential consequences of the violence on the future of Australia's international student market. Education is now Australia's third-largest export industry, with quarterly revenues of over $4 billion, including tuition fees as well as other expenses incurred by international students. The Uni*** currently has 50 Indian students on campus, mostly at Masters or PhD level. Though there have been no reported incidents of victimisation of Indian students on our campus, or of our international students generally, Melbourne will not be isolated from the fallout. International agents in India report a 30-60 per cent fall in enquiries from students about study in Australia.

Yet the key issue here is not financial but ethical. The continued assaults in our community question our collective commitment and capacity to create and maintain the tolerant and inclusive society extolled in recruitment brochures, and promoted last week by Premier Brumby during his visit to India. Thus the University should never accept that there is such a thing as a conflict between 'Australians' and 'Indians' or any other group. But it should gladly enter and take sides in a conflict between ethical and unethical people whatever their ethnic background.
....
But as a public-spirited institution we too must be willing to challenge racism and call it by its name when it occurs on campus or in our community. Many in India judge that Australians do not live up to the ideals they profess. Only through example can we demonstrate a commitment to a tolerant and inclusive university, and Australian, society.

The battle is hardly won, cos there are tons more unis, many of em oiseaulish, in Oz.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 11 Nov 2009 09:02

Why are Indians such self goalers ? Everytime something unfortunate happens on Indians somewhere and Indians started putting pressure on the respective govts, some one comes in the middle and says 'so what, Indians are not really the victims' and talks some BS ! I still remember the thread when the discussion was on German racists attack on Indians , a person suddenly pops out and says, 'Indians should not protest because they have caste system'.

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 11 Nov 2009 09:07

Stan_Savljevic wrote:
arnab wrote:
The battle is hardly won, cos there are tons more unis, many of em oiseaulish, in Oz.

Genuine curiosity - how will the battle be 'won'? What is the endgame here? improving indian opportuniteis for education or making the Aussies genuflect in front of GOI?

Added later: because for tons of oisealuish universities, there are millions of semi-literate students willing to go there. How do you solve the supply constraint?

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 11 Nov 2009 09:12

arnab wrote: Genuine curiosity - how will the battle be 'won'? What is the endgame here? improving indian opportuniteis for education or making the Aussies genuflect in front of GOI?

Getting the assies to recognize that there is a world out there, and this world does not necessarily end with the UK-stanis, or the US-ians or the chinis or worse, the Bali partyzone. The racist incidents are just one small part of it. Just because these oiseaules are 'fraid of being called racists, they cant dump their guilt complex on other Harbhajans, they need to learn to fix their guilt complexes without doing "torn shirt open fly" crap.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 11 Nov 2009 09:29

arnab wrote: Genuine curiosity - how will the battle be 'won'? What is the endgame here? improving indian opportuniteis for education or making the Aussies genuflect in front of GOI?
?

Arnab,

they are just milestones in a long winding road, where you try to smooth the road ahead of time.

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 11 Nov 2009 09:43

Stan_Savljevic wrote:
arnab wrote: Genuine curiosity - how will the battle be 'won'? What is the endgame here? improving indian opportuniteis for education or making the Aussies genuflect in front of GOI?
Getting the assies to recognize that there is a world out there, and this world does not necessarily end with the UK-stanis, or the US-ians or the chinis or worse, the Bali partyzone. The racist incidents are just one small part of it. Just because these oiseaules are 'fraid of being called racists, they cant dump their guilt complex on other Harbhajans, they need to learn to fix their guilt complexes without doing "torn shirt open fly" crap.

Ok - but how does this help us (as in bharat-vasis)? Can I say this - the Aussies learn and adapt quickly. We don't - we are content with the battle half won (as pointed by you in your 'end game'). Look at what their Treasury Secretary said in a speech recently (This guy is not even a politician). As I said before, if you really want to push Australia to change, you solve your own supply constraints.

The Shape of Things to Come: long run forces affecting the Australian economy in coming decades

As the Global Financial Crisis hit our shores, the Australian economy was in structural transition in response to four large, long term forces: (1) population ageing; (2) climate change adaptation and the prospect of climate change mitigation; (3) the information and communications technology revolution; and (4) the impact on Australia’s terms-of-trade of the re-emergence, as global economic powers, of China and India.

http://www.treasury.gov.au/documents/16 ... ddress.pdf

vina · Post by **vina** » 11 Nov 2009 09:58

Hmm. Kevin Rudd is in India soon. I just hope he gets skewered by the Indian Govt (MEA , MMS and others) on the pathetic siding with China on the Arunachal Pradesh vote in ADB and the nuclear fuel issue and the simply unacceptable racist attacks on Indians (not just students , Indians of all stripes including long settled immigrants) in Australia.

Tell the Aussies off in no uncertain terms that this is where they get off.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 11 Nov 2009 12:49

Rudd should not have been allowed in, unless he openly reverses the policy of supplying nukes to commie dictators but not to a democratic state with clean record. In various other ways too he has practically become 'Beijing's man' in Canberra, something many Australians are deeply concerned about..

I really wonder what kind of idiot parents there are in India that send their kids at enormous costs to study vague and weird things like design, motor car engineering etc. That too in shady colleges..Hardly anyone makes any automobiles there and they know next to nothing about anything other than perhaps mining.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 11 Nov 2009 20:34

For many people who feel hurt by Australia's attitude towards India vs China, in realm of ADB loan, nooklear material, or abuse of Indian students studying in Australia, etc., I would like to take a contrarian view which may seem obvious to many but I'll give it a shot. This is not a guilt trip, so relax. And, I apologize if it sounds like a boring commentary or rant.

Does Ozies love Chinis? Is Kevin Rudd Chini lover?
I doubt it. For that matter, does any country (and its people) really love any other country? May be not. Everybody is trying to protect and forward their "interests". And why shouldn't Australia? If we think that Kevin Rudd can single handedly choose to favor one country over the other, it is childish to think that way. China is Australia's biggest client when it comes to natural resources. No supplier would even think about making its largest client unhappy. The relationship between Ozzies and China hasn't been like this from the beginning. CHINESE HAVE EARNED IT. And I think it works both ways between Ozzies and Chinese. China has now overtaken the U.S. and Japan to become Australia’s number one trading partner with bilateral merchandise and services trade set to exceed $A60 billion in 2007. Where does India stand in this equation?

About supplying nooklear material to commies?
What's wrong with that? By the way if China's communism (which is really Communism + Capitalism) is such a bad think why, when a foreign business decides to relocate, China is on their mind? If China tells Ozzies, that if they promise not supply India nooklear material if Chinis become their biggest client for mining products and also promise to take bilateral relationship to next big level, why wouldn't Australia do everything Chinis want them to do including not giving nooklear material to India? After all, they might think, hurting India wont do anything. Tell me, what has happened between Australian and Indian relationship after some unpleasant events, NOT MUCH. It is still a next favorite destination for Indian students who can't either to to US or EU or may be choose AU as their first choice. We still depend on natural resources on foreign countries including Australia. Who said that just because India is a democracy it should get unlimited access to uranium? If Chinis don't want India to get it from Australia, we are not going to get it. WE HAVE TO EARN IT. The way Chinis did, which, by the way, didn't come overnight, but took several decades of hard work.

And the ADB loan nonsense?
I know this is a old, beaten up topic. Same logic applies. If Chinis don't want Ozzies to support India, they wont. Why shouldn't they. In the end, that loan is coming out of some country's coffers and why not bring politics in. World Bank is not whole lot different in that sense but they at least act like civilized creatures. The whole idea of organized world banks has been used by the west for decades to either promote their currencies, dominance is all too well known. Not out of love, but (Ozzies) "protect and make happy their biggest client (Chinis)".

As much as I hate Chinis, out of neighborly competition and everything we hate about Chinis, I admire their work ethic and how they have brought their country out of nowhere (literally "nowhere") to a state where goras are giving they some serious respect. IT HAS TO BE EARNED, YOU CAN'T DEMAND FOR IT. As far as Chinis earning this from Australia (or for that matter any wester country) "DUNNIYA ZUKTI HAI, ZHUKANE WALA CHAHIYE".

Jai Hind

tchandr · Post by **tchandr** » 12 Nov 2009 01:39

chanakyaa wrote: As much as I hate Chinis, out of neighborly competition and everything we hate about Chinis, I admire their work ethic and how they have brought their country out of nowhere (literally "nowhere") to a state where goras are giving they some serious respect. IT HAS TO BE EARNED, YOU CAN'T DEMAND FOR IT. As far as Chinis earning this from Australia (or for that matter any wester country) "DUNNIYA ZUKTI HAI, ZHUKANE WALA CHAHIYE".

Jai Hind

err to summarize,
China has Aussies by their balls and will squeeze them if they have to..so far so good.

Now, where on earth did India(ns) demand respect from others.
I am still trying to understand your post, do you want to say that we should roll over and play dead or we should be strong enough so that no one will mess with us?

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 12 Nov 2009 02:18

do you want to say that we should roll over and play dead or we should be strong enough so that no one will mess with us?

The latter part "we should be strong enough so that no one will mess with us?"

Arihant · Post by **Arihant** » 13 Nov 2009 18:03

I understand from Australian contacts that their PM is often referred to as the "Manchurian candidate" - quite literally. The man is fluent in Mandarin, and has a Chinese son-in-law - but neither of these are crimes, and probably help establish Australia's multi-cultural credentials. But the man is slavish in his kowtowing to the Chinese leadership ( there is anecdotal evidence that his Mandarin speeches welcoming visiting, minor, Chinese functionaries, border on genuflection). He has reported, as is legally required, all of his China trips in his decade-plus as an Australian MP, funded by companies with variations of the "Australia-China Export-Import Corp" name - but no one really knows why he went or what he did there. More recently, his own Defence minster was put under covert surveillance by his own Defence establishment for his far-too-close ties with a Chinese businesswoman with strong PLA and CCP ties - the story broke, heads rolled, and it looked like he might survive, but the Aussie Defence establishment got him on an entirely dfferent count (unreported gitfs) and he had to resign.

So the Australian PM is in India shamelessly repeating his position that he will not sell uranium to India. And blatantly stating that he could not guarantee that more attacks would not happen on Indian students. And quite unable to explain why attacks only involve Indian students, and not, say, the Chinese....

Methinks the land down under is well on its way to becoming a client state of the Middle Kingdom...

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 13 Nov 2009 21:44

Can we encourage/facilitate Pakistani emigration to Australia? That would be a good check on Chinese ambitions in the long term.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 14 Nov 2009 02:16

Australia to Invest $50 Million More in Joint Fund
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125801007587044967.html

The investment toward the joint research initiative seeks to support more applied research and greater participation of industry partners to help address some of the climate change challenges , according to an Australian government statement.