Indian Naval Discussion

krishna_krishna · Post by **krishna_krishna** » 08 Nov 2009 06:22

The gold film is used in mostly all modern aircraft to protect pilot from radiations of aircrafts own radar. Gold has very good shielding properties. It is not to reduce the aircrafts radar signature.

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 08 Nov 2009 14:25

Interview of Vice Admiral Premvir Das by Iskander Rehman.

http://indiangeopolitics.blogspot.com/2 ... ew-of.html

Excerpts

I suppose that you are referring to China and to its so-called String of Pearls Strategy?
Yes, although, I can't help thinking that the String of Pearls has been overhyped by the press. Gwadar is the only port whose infrastructure is anywhere close to completion. And even the stationing of Chinese submarines in Gwadar could reveal itself complicated for Beijing-the Americans and other regional powers such as Saudi Arabia will be watching from across the Persian Gulf.

Now for a more technical question: how does India's most recent class of Kolkata destroyers compare with its Chinese Sovremenny design counterpart?
When it comes to destroyers and frigates China still suffers the consequences of the arms embargo. Whereas India can have access to high-tech Israeli, American and French equipment, China can only really rely on Russia. I would say that in terms of weapons sensors, the Kolkata destroyers are 25 to 30% more sophisticated.

Final question: what strategy should India adopt in order to counter Chinese naval expansion? Should India focus more on ASW (Anti-submarine warfare) rather than on carrier-based force projection? Isn't there a risk that Indian carriers will become increasingly vulnerable to China's anti-ship ballistic missiles and ASCMs?

Carriers bring an essential element to the table in the event of a high-seas conflict in the form of airpower. As for anti-ship missiles, one has to hope that the IN's anti-missile and air-defence systems will be up to the task.
When it comes to China, it is inevitable that the PLAN will extend its presence into the Indian Ocean region in order to secure their energy supplies and the sea lanes of communication. This can be viewed as legitimate in many regards. India must thus enter into a two-pronged strategy vis-a-vis China- more must be done in terms of maritime cooperation versus non-conventional threats such as piracy and terrorism in order to build up trust in-between the two navies. At the same time, the Indian Navy must continue to strengthen its presence in the Indian Ocean, as well as its capabilites, and must remain watchful.

Shankar · Post by **Shankar** » 08 Nov 2009 14:29

The gold film is used in mostly all modern aircraft to protect pilot from radiations of aircrafts own radar. Gold has very good shielding properties. It is not to reduce the aircrafts radar signature.

it is not for reducing radar signature though do have some such property -few molecule thick gold essentially acts as anti glare for the pilots .Radio waves can penetrate through this thickness of gold easily -all modern aircraft have this including our own LCA .The technology involves vapor deposition of gold on the glass in high vacuum furnace

Shankar · Post by **Shankar** » 08 Nov 2009 14:30

Met a person who had been on the Arihant. Sorry, tha'ts all there is to say

he must have told you how similar arihant is to akula 2 -just give a smiley to say yes -dont respond to say no

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 08 Nov 2009 16:02

Shankar wrote:Met a person who had been on the Arihant. Sorry, tha'ts all there is to say

he must have told you how similar arihant is to akula 2 -just give a smiley to say yes -dont respond to say no

Should this be discussed here

maz · Post by **maz** » 09 Nov 2009 22:51

BR folks, who lives in Chennai? Please contact me at mmazumdar at hot mail dot com.

FYI, the Navy will show up this week or next week for an Op Demo. Please be be there with long range cameras to capture the action.
Maz

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 11 Nov 2009 08:28

Shankar, not taking the bait.

These chaps are pros and they don't have loose lips.

Kersi and I have connected and are likely meeting sometime soon in Mumbai or Pune. Maybe, you can join us.

The Shalki and Sindhugosh were berthed behind each other and I visited them in the order below. Both boats were on operational duty, armed and did not have show quality finish which was exactly what I wanted.

Shishumar's

The HDW's are spacious, with clean layouts and are highly regarded by the crew for comfort. Assuming average height, you can walk the entire length of the sub without ducking. Saw the crew escape hull. Quite an interesting apparatus including the modus operandi to use it.

The torpedo loading mechanism is very efficient and the sailors love the clean & efficient design. Its a humbling experience to touch a live torpedo ready for action.

The sub seems smaller inside and I was suprised at how quickly I finished walking from bow to stern. This is because most of the equipment is not visible and stacked away out of sight..

Kilo's

The Kilo's look crammed and one has to duck quite a bit (as in WWII subs) to move between bulk heads. The AC on the Sindhugosh was turned off on the day for maintenance and I came out dripping with sweat. The anechoic tiles have a nice feel.

The trip from bow to stern involved moving through bulkheads and was not comfortable for me. It was also a humbling experience to touch and feel not only the live torpedo's but also the missiles. Here is a Q, is there anything in open source on tube - missile firing combination's?

On both subs I had a small backpack and it was difficult to move.

The Shishumars look and feel more advanced than the Kilo's but I would say its not a good idea to judge by looks alone.

Mumbai

It was a pleasure to revisit after 9 odd years and she was gleaming inside and out with show quality finish. Some armour ranges on BR are incorrect and best to leave it that way.

I was hoping to meet some of her commissioning crew but as I expected, none remain on the ship.

She does not have the Barak as we all know and there was quite a bit of discussion on the Barak trials. I may post on the trials a bit later after I have researched the quantum of information available in open source.

Was lucky to tour the entire ship. The level of computerisation is higher than probably most think and the IN have some serious inhouse SDLC capability. In summary, the IN is aware of and taken care to mitigate the risks of any trojans in commercial software including operating systems.

from BR INS Mumbai, is more advanced than the other two vessels

is true

Both her hangers were empty as both chopper were on shore.

After visiting 3 ships, my host asked if there were any more I wished to visit. S/he had been generous with time for the better part of half a day and although I was aching to visit a berthed Leander I politely declined in favour of another visit.

Since after the Kilo visit we were sweating, we headed off to the Gateway for some refreshing "ganna ras". Without ice off course.

In the evening, we had a relaxed evening with drinks & dinner at the Navy's US club. A live band was playing good music from the 70-80's as we watched the sea.

Some other tidbits:

The IN issues a smart card to track liquor entitlements centrally. Now, liquor draw downs are tracked across postings unlike previously.

NOFRA looks run down. I was shocked by the general lack of upkeep for a HQ. The saving grace is the good amount of tree cover.

MES is living upto its reputation in building maintenance. Doors in officers homes don't close etc etc.

There is realistic acceptance that the first boat of any indigenous type is going to take longer.

There is also relief at L&T's capability and integration into the IN's supply chain.

Yesterday, I visited the NDA. It was a great experience and is for another post.

I should be visiting the dockyard again and happy to take any reasonable queries without any commitment to process.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 11 Nov 2009 09:00

INS Chamak is on static display at the NDA. Perhaps, the BR page could be updated.

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 11 Nov 2009 17:58

Israel has signed a $1.1 billion contract to supply an upgraded tactical air defence system to India, with delivery expected by 2017, an Israeli official said on Monday.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 212849.cms

Meaning that P-15A cannot be operational before 2017 or even later (keeping in mind inevitable test and training phase).

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 11 Nov 2009 19:54

SNaik wrote:Israel has signed a $1.1 billion contract to supply an upgraded tactical air defence system to India, with delivery expected by 2017, an Israeli official said on Monday.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 212849.cms

Meaning that P-15A cannot be operational before 2017 or even later (keeping in mind inevitable test and training phase).

this MRSAM project is nothing but just foolish.Israel developing same SAM system which was developed by others 20 years ago about which everyone knows already

and there is possibility that P15A might have european naval aesa or russian radars instead of MFSTAR
and VL SHITL instead of BARAK-8

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 11 Nov 2009 21:10

shivalik frigate has one of these radars as secondary radar

Radar detection and targeting "Fregat-MAE-4K"

Radar stations "Fregat-MAE", "Fregat-MAE-1", "Fregat-MAE-2"

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 11 Nov 2009 21:32

Baldev wrote:shivalik frigate has one of these radars as secondary radar

Radar detection and targeting "Fregat-MAE-4K"

Radar stations "Fregat-MAE", "Fregat-MAE-1", "Fregat-MAE-2"

Why are they using Fregat-MAE series radars when we have our own DRDO 3D-CAR ??
CAR has a good detection range...I think around 170 KM. Is there any other difference between these two ??

Thanks

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 11 Nov 2009 22:49

sunny y wrote:Why are they using Fregat-MAE series radars when we have our own DRDO 3D-CAR ??
CAR has a good detection range...I think around 170 KM. Is there any other difference between these two ??

Thanks

fregat MAE 1/2 have 300km search range compared to 3D CAR which has 170km search range

John · Post by **John** » 11 Nov 2009 23:40

Shivalik has Fregat M2EM radar and Shtil air defense system requires Fregat for mid course guidance hence it is being used. Barak/Barak-8 has no such requirement and can be integrated with 3D CAR/EL-M 2238/2248 etc.

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 11 Nov 2009 23:42

John wrote:Shivalik has Fregat M2EM radar and Shtil air defense system requires Fregat for mid course guidance hence it is being used.

in addition to that shivalik has FREGAT MAE1/2 which operates at higher frequency
and picture posted well matches with the secondary radar of SHIVALIK

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 12 Nov 2009 00:28

fregat MAE 1/2 have 300km search range compared to 3D CAR which has 170km search range

Shivalik has Fregat M2EM radar and Shtil air defense system requires Fregat for mid course guidance hence it is being used. Barak/Barak-8 has no such requirement and can be integrated with 3D CAR/EL-M 2238/2248 etc.

Thanks a lot for you reply sir

To gurus : Does DRDO have any plan to increase 3D-CAR's range given that both IAF & IN are impressed by it's performance ??

Thanks

srai · Post by **srai** » 12 Nov 2009 03:23

SNaik wrote:Israel has signed a $1.1 billion contract to supply an upgraded tactical air defence system to India, with delivery expected by 2017, an Israeli official said on Monday.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 212849.cms

Meaning that P-15A cannot be operational before 2017 or even later (keeping in mind inevitable test and training phase).

Well ... the news article is referring to Indian Army's purchase of the Barak-8. So it looks like all 3 services are standardizing on Barak-8/NG MR/LR SAM system.

As you might know, IN was the first to sign a JV deal on Barak NG with Israel back a few years ago. This was followed by IAF, which also signed a JV deal on Barak-8 land version last year. For the IAF deal, it was said the system will be ready in 5 years time frame (around 2012-14). So I assume IN's Barak NG would be closer to production than the IAF Barak-8 version since it had at least 2 years head start (2011-2012 time frame which is enough time for the P-15As and the planned P-17As).

Added later:
Found this news ...
http://defense-update.com/products/b/barak8.htm

ndia and Israel agreed to jointly develop a new long range, land-based air defense system to replace the aging Pechora (SA-3 GOA) missiles currently in service with the Indian Air Force. Covering a range of 70 km, the new missile will almost double the range of the 60km vertically launched Barak 8 shipborne missile (also known as Barak NG) currently being developed for the Indian and Israeli Navies under a US$480 million five year program launched in early 2006.
...
MR-SAM is expected to streamline with the original Barak 8 schedule, adding about $300 million to the program development cost. In its decision last week the Indian Government earmarked a total funding of about Rs10,000 crore (about US$2.5 billion) for the medium range surface-to-air missiles (MR-SAM) project. The program will include the deployment of up to nine air defense squadrons. The MR-SAM development will be conducted under the bilateral agreement signed between the two countries, which will guide the scope of collaboration formulating between DRDO and IAI defined in a memorandum of agreement signed in New Delhi, June 2007.

The Indian Air Force plans to re-equip nine air defense squadrons with the new missile, each including two batteries comprising a multi-mission radar system performing target acquisition and guidance, command-and-control element and three container-launchers each mounting eight missiles.
...

So it looks like 2010 for Barak NG (IN version) and 2012 for Barak-8 (IAF version). It is likely IA wants its own modifications as well; hence, the 2017 time frame. Or that IA will have to wait for its turn at the production run since IAF has ordered around 9 squadrons.

From the IA's order amount of $1.1 billion, it is possible to roughly estimate how many Barak-8 systems will be bought given that we know about the IAF's $2.5 billion order for 9 squadrons. I would estimate roughly at about 3 squadrons worth (one for each strike corps).

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 12 Nov 2009 05:35

srai wrote:So it looks like 2010 for Barak NG (IN version) and 2012 for Barak-8 (IAF version). It is likely IA wants its own modifications as well; hence, the 2017 time frame. Or that IA will have to wait for its turn at the production run since IAF has ordered around 9 squadrons.

From the IA's order amount of $1.1 billion, it is possible to roughly estimate how many Barak-8 systems will be bought given that we know about the IAF's $2.5 billion order for 9 squadrons. I would estimate roughly at about 3 squadrons worth (one for each strike corps).

IA can buy such missile right now from other vendors instead of 2017 and this decision is peculiar

John · Post by **John** » 12 Nov 2009 05:56

Off topic, MR-SAM is joint development with IAI no other vendor offered that, MBDA did offered joint development for a SHORAD system (Maitri) but the IA/IAF went with SPYDER.

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 12 Nov 2009 06:27

John wrote:Off topic, MR-SAM is joint development with IAI no other vendor offered that, MBDA did offered joint development for a SHORAD system (Maitri) but the IA/IAF went with SPYDER.

actually there was no bidding at all and IAI was choosen straight.

and there is no TOT for active radar seeker,and capability of MRSAM itself no big jump over other missiles.

right now 3 P15,3 talwar class,3 shivalik class,3 more talwar class being built, 3 more talwar class to be ordered, total 15 ships have/will have SHTIL missile variants

so it was more economical to fit VL SHTIL on P15A as well and produce SHTIL SAM with TOT but as you know these missiles are bought off the shelf and bringing MRSAM to just 3 P15A adds burden being totally separate system.

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 12 Nov 2009 10:16

The shtil has served IN well but all future ships and upgrades will involve Barak-8. Anyway not sure it makes sense to compare 70 km range missile with 32-45 km ranged one. Barak-8 will go abroad P-15A/B (7) and P-17A (7).

ovein · Post by **ovein** » 12 Nov 2009 10:36

It seems the Mig-29K's are to reach India. It is indeed a long wait. (Vik is definitely longer)

"Sources say the first four of the 16 MiG-29Ks contracted along with the 44,570-tonne Gorshkov, in the initial $1.5-billion package deal inked with Russia in January 2004 after a decade of negotiations, will arrive in India in the "last week of November''.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 220411.cms

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/stor ... bat%20jets

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 12 Nov 2009 14:45

Indian Navy crewmen tackle boredom with DTH

Earlier watching cricket matches inside the ship was completely unimaginable. But now I can watch matches on board too.

http://idrw.org/?p=1641#more-1641

John · Post by **John** » 12 Nov 2009 17:25

Baldev wrote:actually there was no bidding at all and IAI was choosen straight.

and there is no TOT for active radar seeker,and capability of MRSAM itself no big jump over other missiles.

right now 3 P15,3 talwar class,3 shivalik class,3 more talwar class being built, 3 more talwar class to be ordered, total 15 ships have/will have SHTIL missile variants

so it was more economical to fit VL SHTIL on P15A as well and produce SHTIL SAM with TOT but as you know these missiles are bought off the shelf and bringing MRSAM to just 3 P15A adds burden being totally separate system.

No one else came forward with joint development offer for medium range SAM, there was no tender for Brahmos. Barak-8 is superior to VL-Shtil which is semi active radar guided missile and can only engage as many targets as the number of FCRs that are present. Russians do have plans for a VL-Shtil that will utilize an active radar guided missiles but it is still in the drawing board. Besides the Chinese are building VL-shtil and might have exclusive rights to it.

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 12 Nov 2009 17:51

John wrote:No one else came forward with joint development offer for medium range SAM, there was no tender for Brahmos. Barak-8 is superior to VL-Shtil which is semi active radar guided missile and can only engage as many targets as the number of FCRs that are present. Russians do have plans for a VL-Shtil that will utilize an active radar guided missiles but it is still in the drawing board. Besides the Chinese are building VL-shtil and might have exclusive rights to it.

actually no one was allowed to bid that was the only reason no one came forward.

lock on range of semi active radar seeker is more than that of active radar seeker which MRSAM will use
and for 50km range of SHTIL SAM semi active radar seeker is more than sufficient.

now it depends on buyer which seeker they want for their missiles.
by the way there exixt agat slanets active radar seeker with 270mm diameter.

John · Post by **John** » 12 Nov 2009 21:56

Baldev wrote:actually no one was allowed to bid that was the only reason no one came forward.

lock on range of semi active radar seeker is more than that of active radar seeker which MRSAM will use
and for 50km range of SHTIL SAM semi active radar seeker is more than sufficient.

now it depends on buyer which seeker they want for their missiles.
by the way there exixt agat slanets active radar seeker with 270mm diameter.

Not sure about the bidding process behind MR-SAM, that said russia is not so forth coming in allowing integration of their weapon system with other radars and tie them in as a package. Makes upgrades very difficult and expensive, one of the reasons IN went with Barak-1.

As for lock on range of SAR seeker don't know what you mean, the lock on range depends on the system most modern SAR missiles including SM-2 only lock on in the terminal phase when they receive target illumination from the FCR (this allows the system to intercept more targets with one FCR).

Either way active guided missiles are superior to SAR for naval purpose because they are better at dealing with saturation attacks and networking opens them up to whole list of possibilities including engaging targets that even launching platform did not detect (KA-31 providing targeting info for low flying missiles) .

Active guided variant of Shtil cannot comment much on that since i have not read anything about it. Plus Russians are still at disadvantage since they have not develop hot launch VLS system.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 13 Nov 2009 00:41

krishna_krishna wrote:The gold film is used in mostly all modern aircraft to protect pilot from radiations of aircrafts own radar. Gold has very good shielding properties. It is not to reduce the aircrafts radar signature.

please ! it is to reduce the aircraft's signature. read the article below which appeared more than a couple of years back. while it has obvious mistakes in that it calls the radar waves as "laser beam", the other stuff is consistent with Have Glass RCS reduction measures carried out on F-16s

Have Glass is the code name for a series of RCS reduction measures for the F-16 fighter. Its primary aspect is the addition of an indium-tin-oxide layer to the gold tinted cockpit canopy. This is reflective to radar frequencies, while it may seem odd, adding a radar reflective coating actually reduces the plane's visibility to radar. An ordinary canopy would let radar signals straight through where they would strike the many edges and corners inside and bounce back strongly to the source, the reflective layer dissipates these signals instead. Overall, Have Glass reduces an F-16's RCS (radar-cross section) by some 15 percent

KOLKATA: India could soon be the third country in the world, after the US and France, to have a stealth bomber fighter aircraft in its armoury.

The Kolkata-based Indian Association for Cultivation of Science (IACS) has developed a technology to convert ordinary light combat aircraft into stealth jets that would go undetected on radar. The first stage of the experiment, which commenced in 1999, has been successfully concluded. The defence ministry has approved the technology and has given the go-ahead for "full-scale production" to begin. It is expected to start in about six months’ time.

According to IACS scientists associated with the project, the technology uses a special material to construct a shield on the plexi-glass canopies. It is the glass cover of the cockpit that usually betrays the presence of an aircraft as it reflects the laser beam that is emitted to catch them on the radar. The shield will cover the cockpit and deflect the laser beam on the shield in all directions.

"This will make sure the aircraft remains undetected on the radar. We are not sure if the same technology is used in France and the US. It has been developed in our own way and using our own techniques. If it works out well, this would be a big step for defence technology in India," said a scientist.

Defence officials said the advanced combat aircraft made in the US and France have a similar shield on the plexi-glass canopies. "This shield gives the canopies a golden tinge. This special layer scatters the laser beams emitted from a radar site either on the ground or in the air (AWACS). We’ve been trying to develop this technology for some time. The shield developed by IACS will boost our indigenisation efforts," an official said.

During the exercises at Kalaikunda where US F-16s took part, IAF officials got a closer look at the gold-tinted canopies. They also got a chance to test the technique by using ground-based radar. Interestingly, the F-16s from Singapore did not have the shield as the technology has not been transferred.

The defence authorities were so impressed with the new technology that they decided to fast-track the process and start full-scale production of the canopy following a test at Jodhpur recently.

"They had the option of going for a pilot project initially but they chose to skip it," said an IACS official. Fighter jets like Jaguars, MiGs, Mirages and Sukhois will now be fitted with this special canopy to enhance their stealth capabilities

link

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 13 Nov 2009 03:07

John wrote: Not sure about the bidding process behind MR-SAM, that said russia is not so forth coming in allowing integration of their weapon system with other radars and tie them in as a package. Makes upgrades very difficult and expensive, one of the reasons IN went with Barak-1.

As for lock on range of SAR seeker don't know what you mean, the lock on range depends on the system most modern SAR missiles including SM-2 only lock on in the terminal phase when they receive target illumination from the FCR (this allows the system to intercept more targets with one FCR).

Either way active guided missiles are superior to SAR for naval purpose
Active guided variant of Shtil cannot comment much on that since i have not read anything about it. Plus Russians are still at disadvantage since they have not develop hot launch VLS system.

to be honest there are other missiles which are faster than BARAK-1 for same purpose.
there was no other country allowed to bid for MRSAM,naval short range SAM and everyone knows this

and missile with active radar seeker locks on only in terminal phase too

SAR seeker on SHTIL has 35-40km lock on range against 5^sq compared to active radar seeker with 13-15km lock on range against similar RCS of target.

and active radar seeker is the same used in derby missile will be used in MRSAM

if you have not read about active radar SHTIL then please do some study on this then we will talk if you can't find any info then i will post that exclusively for you.

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 13 Nov 2009 03:09

john wrote:Either way active guided missiles are superior to SAR for naval purpose

BARAK-1 is uses semi active missile seeker.

John · Post by **John** » 13 Nov 2009 03:28

Baldev,
9M317 uses its SAR only during its terminal phase and it is semi active guided missile so it requires illumination from the FCR. Most modern missiles only lock on during terminal phase and use mid course guidance. So i do not understand what you mean by your lock on comparison for SAR vs Active guided missile. As for MR-SAM or Barak-8, no they do not use derby's seeker.

As for Barak it is not semi active guided missile, it uses CLOS guidance. Most point defense SAM system use that type of guidance including Trishul, TOR, Kashtan etc.

srai · Post by **srai** » 13 Nov 2009 04:04

Baldev wrote:
srai wrote:So it looks like 2010 for Barak NG (IN version) and 2012 for Barak-8 (IAF version). It is likely IA wants its own modifications as well; hence, the 2017 time frame. Or that IA will have to wait for its turn at the production run since IAF has ordered around 9 squadrons.

From the IA's order amount of $1.1 billion, it is possible to roughly estimate how many Barak-8 systems will be bought given that we know about the IAF's $2.5 billion order for 9 squadrons. I would estimate roughly at about 3 squadrons worth (one for each strike corps).
IA can buy such missile right now from other vendors instead of 2017 and this decision is peculiar

As per today's article
http://bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=11889

NEW DELHI, Nov. 12 (UPI) -- The Indian army is set to order an unspecified number of Akash anti-aircraft missiles to replace its aging Russian SAM-6 Kvadrat air defense missile system.
...

So it seems IA has a two step strategy, highly mobile Akash SAMs right away (2010-2014) for its strike corps along with longer ranged Barak-8 down the road (2017+). They would complement each other. I would assume the "unspecified" number will turn out to be 3 Akash groups (with 4 batteries each) for each of IA's strike corps.

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 14 Nov 2009 01:36

John wrote:Baldev,
9M317 uses its SAR only during its terminal phase and it is semi active guided missile so it requires illumination from the FCS .So i do not understand what you mean by your lock on comparison for SAR vs Active guided missile.

As for MR-SAM or Barak-8, no they do not use derby's seeker.

As for Barak it is not semi active guided missile, it uses CLOS guidance. Most point defense SAM system use that type of guidance including Trishul, TOR, Kashtan etc.

from above line i come to know that you think semi acitve radar seeker doesn't locks on target only active radar seeker locks has this capability,

every missile/bomb seeker has lock on range
and this includes passive homing seekers(anti radar/IR) and semi active laser homing seekers used in LGBs and TV seekers also have lock on range so semi active radar seeker is no exception.

not only semi active homing seeker requires FCR for target illumination but also active radar missiles also require this.

if MRSAM or BARAK-8 missile seeker is not derby missile seeker and if some other missile seeker exist please post link.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 14 Nov 2009 09:59

INS Chamak K 95 OSA II fast attack missile boat on static display at the NDA Gol market.

High res uncropped versions available on request.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Nov 2009 10:17

IN likes to build their ships in threes. instead of static names like talwar,tabar, trishul eminent sons of the soil can be honoured.

a obvious one that comes to mind is the valiant sisodia rajput line of the Ranas of Mewar all of whom devoted their lives to protecting their lands and uniting the clans.

Rana Kumbha, Rana Sanga and Rana Pratap.

most of you must have read the amar chitra kathas of their lives.

http://images.exoticindiaart.com/books/ ... _acl22.jpg

if we do not honour our own patriots - nobody else will. and nobody in future will have role models
other than sissified bollywood gym rats and JNU intellectuals of dubious morality and national pride.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 14 Nov 2009 14:19

Singha wrote:IN likes to build their ships in threes. instead of static names like talwar,tabar, trishul eminent sons of the soil can be honoured.

a obvious one that comes to mind is the valiant sisodia rajput line of the Ranas of Mewar all of whom devoted their lives to protecting their lands and uniting the clans.

Rana Kumbha, Rana Sanga and Rana Pratap.

most of you must have read the amar chitra kathas of their lives.

http://images.exoticindiaart.com/books/ ... _acl22.jpg

if we do not honour our own patriots - nobody else will. and nobody in future will have role models
other than sissified bollywood gym rats and JNU intellectuals of dubious morality and national pride.

Unless you want the Gandhi family to adorn the names of every ship, drop the idea.

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 14 Nov 2009 23:53

Navy launches patrol vessel

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 15 Nov 2009 03:07

This must be the second ship of the Saryu class. GSL seems to be building these patrol ships pretty fast. I wish they would be allowed to build the P-28A corvettes next. The private shipyards can be tapped for patrol ships.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 15 Nov 2009 05:59

A chain of radars, AIS to block sea route for terrorists

nithish · Post by **nithish** » 15 Nov 2009 06:06

MoD may sell aircraft carrier to India to limit cuts

One of Britain's new £2bn aircraft carriers could be sold off under cost-cutting plans being considered by the Ministry of Defence. India has lodged a firm expression of interest, the Observer has learned.

The sale of one of the two 65,000-tonne vessels would leave the Royal Navy with a single carrier and could force Britain to borrow from the French fleet, which itself has only one carrier and is reluctant to build more. Last summer the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, proposed to Gordon Brown that the two navies co-ordinate maintenance and refitting so that one was at sea at all times.

According to senior defence sources, Whitehall officials are examining the feasibility of a sale as part of the strategic defence review that will start early next year and is expected to result in savage cuts.

The carrier programme has already been delayed by two years to push back spending commitments, which itself will end up costing the taxpayer more in the long run. BAE Systems began work in July on HMS Queen Elizabeth, which is due to come into service in 2016. Preparatory work on the Prince of Wales, due for launch in 2018, has also started. The two carriers will replace the ageing Invincible class and are three times the size.

There were fears that the government could scrap one altogether. But it is understood that the financial penalties would be prohibitive. About 10,000 jobs in Portsmouth, Barrow-in-Furness, Fife and Glasgow depend on the orders.

Vikramaditya will be in service in 2012, Vikrant in 2014 and the Viraat, according to Wiki, will serve till 2019
if we were going to buy the Prince of Wales, it might be replacing the Viraat but Wiki also says that the second Vikrant class carrier might be inducted at about the same time (if it's ordered nxt year)
will the Navy go for the super-carrier and forego another Vikrant?

John · Post by **John** » 15 Nov 2009 06:28

Baldev wrote:from above line i come to know that you think semi acitve radar seeker doesn't locks on target only active radar seeker locks has this capability,

every missile/bomb seeker has lock on range
and this includes passive homing seekers(anti radar/IR) and semi active laser homing seekers used in LGBs and TV seekers also have lock on range so semi active radar seeker is no exception.

not only semi active homing seeker requires FCR for target illumination but also active radar missiles also require this.

if MRSAM or BARAK-8 missile seeker is not derby missile seeker and if some other missile seeker exist please post link.

I do not think you understand Semi active radar guidance and Active radar guidance might want to read them first. Active radar guided missile does not require illumination from FCR radar it is has radar transceiver and is capable of detecting and homing on to the target, fire and forget.

This must be the second ship of the Saryu class. GSL seems to be building these patrol ships pretty fast. I wish they would be allowed to build the P-28A corvettes next. The private shipyards can be tapped for patrol ships.

Speaking of that any word on Shivalik was to be commissioned this month.