India-US News and Discussion

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Yayavar
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Yayavar »

arun wrote:What is good for the Goose is good for the Gander :wink: .

Meanwhile can we have some pugnacity from our Government or is that too much to expect? :roll: :
Why doesn’t the US hold a dialogue with Osama?

A few years back at an after-office get together I was asked - why dont you (as in Indians) get together with Pakistanis, sit across the table and sort it out. I believe it was sometime in 2002 or so. I fully agreed with the person. Then said, of course, a path must be shown for these lingering issues. Maybe Bush can sit down with Osama first and sort the issues out.

To the credit of the questioner - he got the point.
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Jarita »

Good one

Same analogy works for the whole Kashmir argument as well - would you give up New York because the majority population was coerced into converting to a particular ideology? They get the point very quickly
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

SwamyG wrote:Huffington Post headings creator are some of the worst available online.
I checked the Drudge Report as well to see what both the left and right are saying about this visit, but all they had was a link to The Times UK under the heading "Celebrity Curry..." Of course they link to the Guardian UK about a story of Hindus sacrificing 250K animals in Nepal.
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Sanku »

SwamyG wrote:
Sanku wrote:Their goals and ours dont align at all, and wont align till US sufficiently agrees to cede the control of Near west to Java back to Indians.
Sanku ji: You are making the same mistake that several people here, often, make - i.e. expecting Unkil to do this or that for the sake of India.
Who me. :-o :eek: :shock: SwamyG I am disappointed, after all this time, this is what you think of me!!

No I dont think US will do this for the sake of India. It will do it for its own sake. It has should, it has too.

Thats the only way for it to stay relevant in long terms and not result in Embassy evacuation exercise on a gigantic scale.

Knowing how long the empires and spheres of influences of large powers have lasted in the past, how long does US have to go? They better have a good retirement plan :wink:
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by putnanja »

N-deal: India says negotiation on reprocessing to take time
India said it is not looking at finalising negotiations with the US on a pact on reprocessing of spent fuel, a key step in implementation of the nuclear deal, during summit talks between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and President Barack Obama Washington.


"As far as arrangements for reprocessing talks are concerned these are ongoing. We are not looking at finalising them tomorrow in any case," Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao told reporters, hours ahead of Singh-Obama talks at the White House.

"This is an ongoing process, as I mentioned to you, these talks have progressed well," Rao said when asked about the progress of the negotiations on reprocessing facilities, which many were expecting to be concluded during the summit.

...
...
While the American delegation is being led by Richard Stratford, Director of the Office of Nuclear Energy Affairs in the State Department and Washington's point man for nuclear negotiations with India; the Indian side is headed by Ravi B Grover from the Department of Atomic Energy.
...
Once the reprocessing agreement is concluded, the Obama Administration would send this to the Congress for approval.

Unlike, the up and down vote of the 123 Agreement; this automatically becomes law after 60 Session Days of the US Congress; unless the Congress disapproves it by a veto majority – two-thirds. This is considered to be near impossible.
...
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Ananya »

MMS must be releived man now as there was nothing to be achieved except the photo ops and that went of well!!!! one more event to go
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by SwamyG »

Sanku wrote:Knowing how long the empires and spheres of influences of large powers have lasted in the past, how long does US have to go? They better have a good retirement plan :wink:
Sorry ji, kabhi kabhi galti ho jati hain :-) That part I concur - the retirement plan. There are two aspect to that:
1) The countries that are available for partnership.
2) The countries that Unkil picks for partnership.

The #2 involves the following:
1) Unkil recognizing the correct countries.
2.1) Unkil recognizing the correct countries, but making a decision from short term perspective.
2.2) Unkil recognizing the correct countries, and making a decision from long term perspective.
2.3) Unkil not having the ability to recognize the correct countries (and maybe still accidentally picking the correct countries).

When I say correct, I mean countries that would willing or can be influenced to bat for Unkil - short or long term.

If India thinks it is an able country that can work well with Unkil for the better of region, world and country - thereby for the betterment of its citizens and its own rajneethi; then it has to position itself accordingly.

While climbing the corporate ladder one has to show an inclination and ability to climb the ladder.

Finally, the partnership has to be mutually beneficial. Only then it will work out.
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

Note that Richard Holbrooke met with Ombaba yesterday, and was in Washington this morning, then took off today for a ski holiday in Telluride, CO. He was not invited for the state dinner nor a meeting with MMS advisers. Which is a good thing, but one has to be a skeptic when it comes to Ombaba's policies.
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Manny »

The Damage is already done in China!

This meeting is all show and no substance. Typical democrats contribution for India-US relations. Another Jimmy Carter/Nixon package!
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

Meanwhile according to reports the music/entertainment is provided by .. the National Symphony Orchestra; Jennifer Hudson, Kurt Elling, and A. R. Rahman .... Zakaria and Gupta of CNN among others are among the invited...(Others include Pelosi, Susan Rice, Kerry, Lugar, Vishakha . Desai, Shyamalan, Ari Emanuel Granholm, Raju Narisetti, , Kal Penn, Steven Spielberg, Bill Richardson....)
Last edited by Amber G. on 25 Nov 2009 01:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

Manny,

Don't forget Reagan who layed out the red carpet for Rajiv Gandhi. Reagan's advisers had despised RG, but he and Nancy like to put on a good show!
Change didn't come until Bush-I and even then it was slight.

Here is a partial list of 45 invitees from Politico:
http://www.politico.com/click/stories/0 ... uest1.html
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Suraj »

I don't see why the pomp and pageantry associated with the visit is of any significance. This visit reminds me of the occasion when France went overboard during a visit of Hu Jintao a couple of years ago, with statements about it being Year of China' in France that year. The Chinese, on the other hand, were rather aloof about it.

This visit brings about a sense of deja vu about that episode - the US is putting up a show while the Indian side is circumspect. From our perspective, I don't see much going wrong so far, but clearly the other side is going out of the way to add some style to deal with the lack of substance.
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by SwamyG »

Suraj: The question is "Is this natak, to fool or to please?"
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Suraj »

SwamyG wrote:Suraj: The question is "Is this natak, to fool or to please?"
None of the actions on the Indian side seem to suggest we've either been fooled or pleased.
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

FWIW for record SOS Clinton's remarks at the Luncheon for MMS
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2009a/11/132354.htm
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Manny »

http://news.rediff.com/column/2009/nov/ ... -visit.htm

But if they are so smart, why do Democrats persist in kow-towing to China and pouring money into Pakistan? It must be because it is standard Democratic Party policy. Despite the illusions many Indians harbour, Democratic administrations have been nastier towards India in general, notwithstanding the sterling counter-example of the Republican Nixon-Kissinger duo sending the 7th Fleet to the Bay of Bengal in 1971 to intimidate India.

Liberal-left types in the West, despite protestations to the contrary, are fascinated by totalitarians and fascists. They are impressed by Vietnamese who defeated them, and Chinese who fought them to a standstill in Korea.

On the other hand, they despise a weak and moralising nation like India (some of them have not yet forgotten V K Krishna Menon's marathon speech at the United Nations, nor all the hot air about non-alignment.

Obama is the only US president in recent years to have refused to meet the Dalai Lama [ Images ], as appeasing China is high on his agenda; similarly the Democratic fascination with Mohammedan tyrants as well.

Victor Davis Hanson of the Hoover Institution wrote in The Wall Street Journal that Obama may well be following in Jimmy Carter's footsteps. Carter, of MEOW fame (moral equivalent of war), who groveled to Middle-Easterners, bringing upon himself the Iran hostage crisis that destroyed his presidency.

Obama is going down this path with his Af-Pak policy, which consists primarily of outsourcing the Afghan problem to Pakistan's Inter Services intelligence, to be followed by the United States declaring victory and leaving. He is ignoring the instructive example of Neville Chamberlain appeasing Hitler [ Images ].

Meanwhile the ISI cannot believe its good luck: Obama is showering billions on it on top of the $11 billion that Bush has already given them, with nothing to show.

On top of this, there is an entire generation of Cold-War-era non-proliferation ayatollahs, many of them Democrats with ties to Obama, who believe India has no business maintaining a nuclear arsenal. These people are on the ascendant, and strangely they have no problem with proliferation by China or Pakistan: The The Washington Post reported how the CIA merely stood by and watched when China delivered two full-fledged nuclear bombs to Pakistan in 1982.
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Jarita »

Manny wrote:On top of this, there is an entire generation of Cold-War-era non-proliferation ayatollahs, many of them Democrats with ties to Obama, who believe India has no business maintaining a nuclear arsenal. These people are on the ascendant, and strangely they have no problem with proliferation by China or Pakistan: The The Washington Post reported how the CIA merely stood by and watched when China delivered two full-fledged nuclear bombs to Pakistan in 1982.

Makes perfect sense. India is the biggest threat. China and Pakistan are pitbulls they currently control. The fun will begin when one of these pit bulls breaks free
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Ananya »

Not really, what Obama is doing now WRT to american intrest , do not make TSP angry any further, Surge the levels in AFG make sure there is an exit , something on lines with what Musshy was quoting on Farid's GPS abt 2 weeks back.

The goal is do not disturb the status quo in any way that damages

1. Route for nato to afg
2. Any nato partners especeally the Royal ones.

Do not invite any truble of any sort.

Good news for India is , do not tell/force me to do things and engage in deals that keep both PRC and TSP happy like education and climate chnage .

From India's prespective strike deals where ever possible things would change after 8 years .
Last edited by Ananya on 25 Nov 2009 02:52, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Gagan »

wrt the Pomp and pagentry, my take.

This is the Obama's first ever reception as hosts at the white house. Since Pres. Obama's arrival in the White House itself iconic in the history of America, the first reception as hosts will also be one to remember for many years to come.

As to why India is receiving this honor, the stars are it seems aligning with India's arrival on the scene.

India has been in the news over the last year or so and most of it has been good, there are tales from India which demonstrate the hope that is there inspite of the poverty - an aspect the people in the US are acutely aware of these days with the economy having left a huge number unemployed. Everything from Slumdog Millionaire, to Smile Pinki to the Chandrayaan water discovery has been in the news in the US and people have appreciated this. I read the WSJ often and most news pertaining to India, and there is some news almost daily, is good news.

Add to this the fact that MMS's GoI is whispering some amazing pillow talk that is oh-so-pleasing for the US.

On the economy front, the US wants it all - The MRCA, the N Plants, the C-17s, the follow on C-130s, the LCA engines - these are the ones we follow. The economic and business deals will be so huge, that the 15 odd billion dollar worth of defense deals will sound like pocket money for children. The business opportunities - infrastructure (all the way from roads to telecom, the whole deal) holds several hundred billions worth of economic opportunity that the US is very very keen to have right now.

Much like the French inviting the Indian contingent at the WW2 commemoration parade, and the pomp and ceremony and love and affection shown this year, because of the MRCA and the N reactor deal for the Jatipur site.
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

Suraj wrote:I don't see why the pomp and pageantry associated with the visit is of any significance. This visit reminds me of the occasion when France went overboard during a visit of Hu Jintao a couple of years ago, with statements about it being Year of China' in France that year. The Chinese, on the other hand, were rather aloof about it.

This visit brings about a sense of deja vu about that episode - the US is putting up a show while the Indian side is circumspect. From our perspective, I don't see much going wrong so far, but clearly the other side is going out of the way to add some style to deal with the lack of substance.
Suraj,

The pomp and show serves two purposes. The first State Dinner is a political reward to those who supported the president during the elections and showcases American glamor. The extravagance and cost for a select group of invitees shows to the US power brokers as to who are the president's favorites. For instance, the floral arrangements cost much more than the actual food and the expensive attire worn will showcase the fashion of celebrities. Those who are in the Beltway know the political value of a state dinner, and that too the first one of a new president. Getting the president's ear is considered difficult, even if one has money, but the president is surrounded by layers of political advisers and cabinet secretaries; therefore if one gets an invite to a state dinner, he or she will bypass those layers and have a chance to the president's ear to promote their cause which will help their interests and in turn allow the invitee to gain power in their sphere. For instance, the chef from Aquavit restaurant (Marcus Samuelsson) for the dinner has been specifically brought in, and in turn the Ombabas have insulted and sidelined the executive WH chef Cristeta Comerford. The objective was to bring in an African-American chef for showcase against the previous chef who was brought in by Laura Bush. Imagine what this does for Marcus Samuelsson and Aquavit?

The second purpose is for the visiting dignitary to show them American protocol and standard as part of respect. This is something the Indians absolutely love and its a win-win situation for the Ombabas as they know it will provide favorable press coverage back home. In terms of doing the hard work of actually changing policies and laws, the event does nothing. My own MIL was happy to see Ombaba celebrate Diwali and I had to point out that this was started under the Bush administration. I can imagine how she and others in India will view the whole event.
Last edited by Mort Walker on 25 Nov 2009 02:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Jarita »

MortWalker
You hit the nail on the head.
As my parents say "Indians chad gaye makhan ke ped pe"
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

Suraj and others:
I know it is stating the obvious, but wrt to "comparisons" to this dinner and Nixon/IG (or other) event and dismissing this just as natak or something like that .. here is my perspective.

I was here in US and did watch Nixon/IG event with interest and IG's appearances on Meet the press and others, (where she described that "she (IG) feels like she was sitting on a volcano") and all I can say is comparing that to the present event one has to say ***deep sigh **.. there is nothing ,even remotely IMO, where one can really equate/compare the perceived friendship/warmth/body language/ and actual words spoken during those two events. Yes I know (as I said it is stating the obvious), nothing is perfect, but it does it mean that any two non perfect events should be judged (or dismissed) equally? Reminds me of an Indian parent /student skit I saw some time ago. (Famous guide to Indian parents advises that
if your son/daughter bring home 99% don't ask what happened to the other point?
:)

Again stating the obvious : This is the first "first state dinner" ever given by any POTUS to an Indian PM, of the significance - which one highly respected scribe notes as ("Nixon must be turning in his grave" ) (Link:here

Personally, if nothing else, I am happy just to see the taqleef it is causing in Paki type blogs and news sources and comm enters (" Why should US support slums of Bombay which MMS is bringing here" ... or " this is all just a photo op" are two main themes...)

Just to set the record straight about Diwali and White House - Bushes had the event but IIRC they chickened out by the protests of Pakis types to personally attend the event. Obama was/is the first POTUS who personally attended the celebrations of Diwali in the White House.
Last edited by Amber G. on 25 Nov 2009 03:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Manny »

The way I look at it, the democrats/White liberals like to be seen with the "good guys". You know like Dalai Lama and what not. To give the illusion to the general public that they too are "nice guys". Remember ..Pelosi is a big "Tibeten" fan. But also remember Pelosi happily made a trip to China and said all the right things to the Chinese on her visit. These are the blokes that totally capitulates and surrenders to despotic regime but would like the facade of the "good guys". The liberals would not stand and fight for anything. They value nothing thats worth fighting for.

If youi read the sentiments from the posts at Huffington Post, they would like nothing better than to surrender to the Talibanies/Pakistanies and go home with the delusion that that would bring them world peace. :roll:

During the whole post election Iran revolt recently, I saw the liberal left cheer lead the Iranians loud protestation. I posted that they should not protest at the urging of America's left because the American left did the same thing at the Tinanmen square. They cheerleaded the protesters but did nothing about it eventually..in fact they still suck up to China. I warned the IRanians that they would do the same ad not protest who would only end up getting shot and after a few years, the same liberal left would make deals with despots.
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

The difference in between Nixon and Ombaba is 40 years and the 24/7 news cycle. With time has come sophistication and the ever increasing ability to be presentable for the voters. Ombaba and Clinton are pathological liars who will say anything for winning elections - they are not stupid and shouldn't be underestimated. Nixon was a crook and Dubya a buffon, but at least he meant what he said and is genuine. I remember the time Carter was in India in 1978 with Morarji Desai and said to his advisers to say no to India for nuclear power. It was picked by microphones and became an embarrassment for Carter. Don't expect that type of situation or an on record disparaging of an Indian leader. I can assure you, MMS and company will be the butt of WH jokes next week.

BTW, I remember watching IG on "Meet the Press" in the 1970s and she was electrifying.
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Jarita »

http://www.cfr.org/

MMS addressed this group (Prannoy James Roy and Mukesh Ambani are members)

The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is an American nonprofit and nonpartisan membership organization dedicated to improving the understanding of U.S. foreign policy and international affairs. Founded in 1921 and headquartered at 58 East 68th Street (Park Avenue) in New York City, with an additional office in Washington, D.C., CFR is considered to be 'the most influential foreign-policy think tank.' [1][2][3] It publishes a bi-monthly journal Foreign Affairs. It has an extensive website, http://www.cfr.org, featuring links to its history, fellows’ biographical information, think tank, the David Rockefeller Studies Program, Independent Task Force reports[4] and other reports, CFR books, expert interviews, meeting transcripts, audio, and videos, Emmy award-winning multimedia Crisis Guides and timelines, Foreign Affairs, and many other publications, biographies of notable directors and other board members, corporate members, and press releases.[5]

The Board of Directors of the Council on Foreign Relations is composed in total of thirty-six officers. Peter G. Peterson and David Rockefeller are Directors Emeriti (Chairman Emeritus and Honorary Chairman, respectively). It also has an International Advisory Board consisting of thirty-five distinguished individuals from across the world.
The Council has been the subject of debate, as shown in the 1969 film The Capitalist Conspiracy by G. Edward Griffin, the 2006 film by Aaron Russo, America: Freedom to Fascism and a 2007 documentary Zeitgeist, the Movie.

Controv.
This is partly due to the number of high-ranking government officials in its membership, along with world business leaders, its secrecy clauses, and the large number of aspects of American foreign policy that its members have been involved with, beginning with Wilson's Fourteen Points. Wilson's Fourteen Points speech was the first in which he suggested a worldwide security organization to prevent future world wars.[6]
The John Birch Society believes that the CFR is "[g]uilty of conspiring with others to build a one world government...".[28]

Historian Carroll Quigley "became well known among those who believe that there is an international conspiracy to bring about a one-world government. In his book Tragedy and Hope, he based his analysis on his research in the papers of an Anglo-American elite organization that, he held, secretly controlled the U.S. and UK governments through a series of Round Table Groups. The Round Table group in the United States was the Council on Foreign Relations. ... Conspiracy theorists assailed Quigley for his approval of the goals (not the tactics) of the Anglo-American elite while selectively using his information and analysis as evidence for their views."[29]
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Manny »

Obama also expressed his country's "full and complete commitment" to implement the Indo-US civilian nuclear cooperation agreement.

Yet something was not right.

Where's the beef, one might be tempted to ask. It was extraordinary that Obama had nothing to say about terrorism being inflicted on India from Pakistan, especially as he was speaking two days before the 26/11 anniversary.

It was an opportunity for the Obama administration to demonstrate its commitment to India in getting Pakistan to act on terror masterminds of the dastardly terror attacks in Mumbai [ Images ]. It chose not to.

Though Obama mentioned India as indispensable to the US, it should be more than clear to his Indian interlocutors that it is Pakistan that is indispensable. He skirted the pointed question on Pakistan in the press conference. Instead, he made some bland statements about working towards peace and security for all.

India and the US do not seem like natural partners anymore. The hope in the corridors of power in Washington is that flattery will be enough to erase doubts about this administration's India policy, if indeed it has one.


There will be more platitudes about India's global role and shared values between the two democracies during the remainder of Manmohan Singh's visit. The Indian government has already started declaring what a success this trip has been.

Shashi Tharoor [ Images ] (minister of state for external affairs) is extremely satisfied with the joint statement because it mentions the word "indispensable."

The fact remains, however, that India has little importance for this administration that is mired in a plethora of domestic and foreign policy crises. At a time when everyone and anyone seems to be taking this administration for a ride, New Delhi [ Images ] should cease hoping too much from Washington. It should not get swayed by the rhetoric that is devoid of substance.

http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/nov/ ... eceive.htm
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

Just to set the record straight about Diwali and White House - Bushes had the event but IIRC they chickened out by the protests of Pakis types to personally attend the event. Obama was/is the first POTUS who personally attended the celebrations of Diwali in the White House.
No. It was celebrated on two occasions near the end of Bush's term. One time, the Bush's were out of town, on another they didn't go due to prior commitments; however this was blamed on the EJ groups and is probably true.
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Jarita »

Spoke to a prof. just now.
This CFR is an ultra shady group. What is funny is that the so called democrats and rethugs have a large number of confluence points when you delve deeper.
It's scary when one thinks of the like of Mukesh Ambani, Prannoy James ROy and now MMS being in bed with these guys.
What they say about India drives the wests policy towards India irrespective of massive banquets and musicians (this was how the british crown used to fete their Indian maharaja satraps)


Indian subcontinent is now perm. South Asia
http://www.cfr.org/project/1311/south_a ... eries.html
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

Manny,

The MMS government is partly to blame for this pomp and show. They need to show back home that India & US are great friends because of the INC leadership. It will be touted for elections, but in terms of electing MPs and MLAs, has little impact. Its more for the DCH crowd who watch TV. They'll be needed for anointing Rahul (Jai Ho!).
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by RoyG »

Barack Obama, us and the US

November 24, 2009 21:00 IST

India [ Images ] will have to fight its own battles. It cannot expect the US to help us fight them, argues Tarun Vijay.

Two kinds of people are complaining about Barack Obama's [ Images ] Asia tour. One, those Americans who have been seeing America in the George W Bush [ Images ] mould for too long. They get depressed about a placid president and hence describing his Asia visit as 'timid' or too yielding to China.

They would have loved an Obama chiding the Chinese and demanding a human rights commission on Tibet [ Images ]. Obama didn't oblige them. He needed a facelift for the US and tried his best.

In the second category of people, we stand out brightly. We like others to do our unfinished jobs. It is not amazing to see Indian cry babies complaining too much that Obama didn't do enough for us. We forget he is the president of the United States and his first and foremost duty is to serve her interest and not ours.

And he did well for the US in his first Asia tour that took him to Japan [ Images ], Singapore, China and South Korea in nine days -- with the maximum time being spent in China, the Asian superpower who spoke to the White House with an erect spine and received a warm hug.

In fact, Obama is the first US president after a long time who presented the image of an amiable, friendly and accessible head of a superpower that had otherwise become synonymous with crude diplomacy laced with military adventurism during the Bush era.

In Japan Obama won a standing ovation when he presented his Pacific connection story -- a very personal and a touching one indeed. And in China his descent from Air Force One alone holding an umbrella amidst Shanghai's first rains won him instant fans.

If Obama has won another friend for Washington, why should we complain if our leaders are on a spree to lose all and bend backwards for an audience with a queen or an alien benefactor?

Americans are a patriotic people who elect leaders with a spine, never compromising national security and always honouring their security forces.

If we don't do that, should we be complaining about it to the White House? Or should we set our own house right?

Here is a nation that doesn't honour its soldiers and keeps negotiating with traitors. We are a State that doesn't care about its farmers till they block Delhi's [ Images ] roads. We get enmeshed in hot money pursuits stashed in places like Laos and Liberia, and no one believes the culprit will ever get punished.

Who knows if a Koda or a Reddy will get 20 plus MPs in the next election and be inducted as the Cabinet minister in charge of internal security?

We kow-tow disoriented before the most horrendous of jihad sponsors and keep inviting murderers for talks and talks and then again talks for decades without resolving the main issues of contention.

Then, one fine morning, when we see the leader of a strong nation discussing our problems with his counterpart, we feel oh, why has he not helped us solve our problems with China? And with Pakistan? And while we have signed a nuke deal, why should it put pressure on us to sign the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty too?

The US did what it did because that is what it thought was good for it. Obama is not ruling the US to ensure India benefits. Is that clear?

And look how our leaders, the great, patriotic, democratic representatives of this land behave. Here is a 'certificate, which I quote from a national daily: 'Vice-chief of the Indian Air Force, Air Marshal P K Barbora, said, "Politicians cutting across party lines are upsetting armed forces modernisation and procurement programmes." He further added, "The fact remains that the IAF's fleet of fighter aircraft is getting depleted. The navy's submarine strength is dwindling and the army has not added a new gun to its heavy artillery in more than 20 years. The weapons, ammunition and systems with the armed forces are getting outdated faster than the government is able to replace them. Irresponsible politics over the years, sometimes when a party is in government or sometimes when it is in the Opposition -- it has all along been seen that whenever the government of the day clears something, the Opposition says no. This badly impinges (on the preparedness) of the defence (forces)," he said.'

Do we need more to complain to Obama?

Now that our prime minister is in the US, guess what the 'biggest' secret that the wizards of the PM's media advisors doled out just before Dr Singh left for the US was. Some gems from a news agency report: 'As the silence fuelled speculation, the White House finally broke the silence to let out the closely guarded secret saying that the dinner would be held under the massive tent instead of the ornate state dining room. The tent option has been picked up as the guest list mushroomed and instead of 120 which the ornate room can accommodate, the Obamas are inviting close to 400 people for their first state dinner on November 24.'

That's all we need. Khana peena aur ghoomna (food, drink and travel). Be happy that Obama is giving a lavish dinner to not just 120, but to 400 of all the important, leading Indian lights of American life. Is that a mean achievement?

The US and China know what they want. China made the US accept its significant role in Asia, turned India into an area to be watched, controlled and helped to stay calm while remaining friendliest with Pakistan.

Both the US and China do not recognise Kashmir [ Images ] as a part of India. They look at the area as an unsettled matter, help Pakistan with dollars and military help, turn a blind eye towards Pakistan using their arms and grants against us, have done nothing to help India post 26/11, have refrained to tell Islamabad [ Images ] to stop its patronage to anti-India elements.

One of them attacked India in 1962; the other had remained a silent spectator then. Even so our analysts and Washington watchers feel at least now the US should help us. Wow!

When we are left to our own, we do better.

Obama postponed his meeting with the Dalai Lama [ Images ] before his China visit. We stood firm and allowed the Dalai Lama to go to Arunachal Pradesh. We trusted the US, inked a controversial nuke deal and hence invited China's bitter reaction expressed through its Arunachal raga, almost reminding of a cold war. The US did not even smile as if this doesn't concern it. And naturally so. Why should our spondylitis make the US lie low?

We have got to deal with the US on our own strength and de-link relations with China from Washington and the Dalai Lama. If we have to save Arunachal, it would be done on the shoulders of leaders in Delhi who have a spine and a will to raise the military strength to a winnable level. Not that we have to increase the numbers of fighter jets and submarines and nuke bombs to what Beijing [ Images ] possess.

Wars are not won by exchanging lists, but by the fierce resolve to destroy the enemy with a first strike mental make-up.

As one American commentator put it succinctly, 'Overall, Obama's Asia policy has been largely driven by events and domestic priorities rather than by an over-arching strategic vision. The Obama team had to closely coordinate with China on financial matters in response to the financial crisis.'

Hence, Obama won't care about India's case on Kashmir or rescuing Aung San Suu Kyi [ Images ], leave aside helping the Dalai Lama to get back to Tibet honourably. His priorities are different.

Feeling euphoric seeing Obama hiring a few Americans with Indian faces on his team make no sense. They would be overburdened to ensure nobody blames them emotionally helping India crossing lines of American interest.

After all, Washington didn't allow Indian intelligence officers to question David Coleman Headley arrested by the Federal Bureau of Investigation on charges of plotting terror attacks in India though India had allowed the FBI to interrogate Ajmal Kasab [ Images ], the lone terrorist held in the 26/11 Mumbai [ Images ] attacks.

The US hasn't yet taken Indian companies, including the Indian Space and Research Organisation, off the blacklist prohibiting US agencies dealing with them. It is pressurising India to sign the CTBT without considering that we are surrounded by two nuke powers hostile to us.

The US didn't help us in 1962, bullied us in 1971, put hurdles in our way to punish Pakistan post Kargil [ Images ], thus helping Islamabad's dictator, didn't take up our case post 26/11.

Washington -- or for that matter any superpower -- respects those who have strength and show an unyielding attitude.

Till we have such rulers who choose a date like 26/11 to be in Washington, rather than being in Mumbai comforting the nation, we can't stop greater powers meddling in our region and affairs.

Tarun Vijay is Director, Dr Syama Prasad Mookerjee Research Foundation

Tarun Vijay

http://news.rediff.com/column/2009/nov/ ... the-us.htm
karthik
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by karthik »

The way CNN is showing the state dinner i am feeling sort of sad for MS!! They are comparing Princess Diana who danced with John Travolta, do they expect an 75 year old India man to be that Charismatic!!

May be they should have taken one of those useless bollywood stars Amithab Bachan or Sharuk Khan, it would have definitely added color since the Americans always have a few of their actors around.

Does the Indian delegation have some stardom in it?
Last edited by karthik on 25 Nov 2009 03:40, edited 1 time in total.
SwamyG
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by SwamyG »

Suraj wrote:
SwamyG wrote:Suraj: The question is "Is this natak, to fool or to please?"
None of the actions on the Indian side seem to suggest we've either been fooled or pleased.
If the flattery was caught or they did not get sufficiently pleased, then it is a diplomatic failure for the Obama administration. I suspect some of the pomp and show is handiwork of Indians and/or Indian origin people.
S.Gautam
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by S.Gautam »

India and the US do not seem like natural partners anymore. The hope in the corridors of power in Washington is that flattery will be enough to erase doubts about this administration's India policy, if indeed it has one.
This is heartening. The Obama syndrome is real and it's at work here. Call a summit, make a speech, host a dinner, etc. Talk about a new era and about himself. How no one could have imagined a black president etc. etc.

A good trait for a U.S. president to have from our PoV. Attention from the U.S. to a region directly correlates to needless civilian deaths in that area from U.S. action (direct or by proxy). The more ignored we are the better. I am disappointed, though, that he's coming to India next year. We seem to have dodged one potential S-e-S (unless all the capitulating is being saved for the end of the visit) but another one is coming now.
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

karthik wrote:The way CNN is showing the state dinner i am feeling sort of sad for MS!! They are comparing Princess Diana who danced with John Travolta, do they expect an 75 year old India man to be that Charismatic!!

May be they should have taken one of those useless bollywood stars Amithab Bachan or Sharuk Khan, it would have definitely added color since the Americans always have a few of their actors around.

Does the Indian delegation have some stardom in it?
Yes. Abhishek and Aishwariya Bachan. Maybe they can do Dhoom machale?
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

Mort Walker wrote:
Just to set the record straight about Diwali and White House - Bushes had the event but IIRC they chickened out by the protests of Pakis types to personally attend the event. Obama was/is the first POTUS who personally attended the celebrations of Diwali in the White House.
No. It was celebrated on two occasions near the end of Bush's term. One time, the Bush's were out of town, on another they didn't go due to prior commitments; however this was blamed on the EJ groups and is probably true.
What part is not true? Did Bush ever attended the function? (Just the obvious fact that he was in office 8 years where 8 Diwalis took place). Please let us know.

Quick google gives this link:
Bush snubs Indians over Diwali
It was a Diwali without sparkle for many Indians who attended a White House event on Wednesday to mark the festival. President Bush was a no-show, First Lady Laura Bush did not turn-up, and there was little representation from the top echelons of the administration or the Republican Party - not even in the form of Karl Rove, Bush's chief political strategist who attended last year's festivities.
<snip>
Reportedly:
..Unlike last year, when the presidsent was in Hawaii en route to East Asia, Bush was at the White House this time.
He did not drop in
, despite the efforts of some leading Indian-American Republican leaders and fundraisers for his re-election campaign.
One can read more from WPost or other sources ... here is why I said "chickened out"
Community activists were told that if the President and the First Lady attended the event of one community or nationals, there would be pressure from others. But a few hours after the Diwali event, Bush attended an Iftar dinner hosted by the White House to mark the end of Ramzaan..
Last edited by Amber G. on 25 Nov 2009 04:26, edited 2 times in total.
karthik
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by karthik »

White house official discussion on facebook!
http://apps.facebook.com/whitehouselive/
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Manny »

I'd rather have the US President not attend the diwali function and not host the Indian PM to doing those things while empowering despotic regimes that are mortal enemies of India.

Indians are not idiots and they know who their real friends are. President Bush was and is a friend of India. Obama has so far shown to be dangerous for India. JMO.

Here it is.

http://pewglobal.org/commentary/display ... sisID=1002

Looking for some good news amid the often dismal findings about America's image abroad? Try India. Anti-Americanism has surged in much of the world since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, but India has bucked the trend. Among Indians, America's image has actually improved in recent years.

Across a range of measures, Indian public opinion is consistently pro-American. The 2005 Pew Global Attitudes survey found that about seven-in-ten Indians (71%) have a favorable view of the United States. Of the 17 countries polled in the survey, only Americans themselves hold a more favorable view of their country. And while U.S. favorability ratings have plunged in many countries, Indians are significantly more positive about the United States now than they were in the summer of 2002, when 54% gave the U.S. favorable marks.
karthik
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by karthik »

Mort Walker wrote:
karthik wrote:The way CNN is showing the state dinner i am feeling sort of sad for MS!! They are comparing Princess Diana who danced with John Travolta, do they expect an 75 year old India man to be that Charismatic!!

May be they should have taken one of those useless bollywood stars Amithab Bachan or Sharuk Khan, it would have definitely added color since the Americans always have a few of their actors around.

Does the Indian delegation have some stardom in it?
Yes. Abhishek and Aishwariya Bachan. Maybe they can do Dhoom machale?
Well they usually have their Celebrity crowd there, they had John Travolta once with Diana, this time i heard Oprah and Steven Spielberg and few other actors would be there. Are you serious about Ash and Abi?
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Post by Suraj »

Amber/Mort: My comment was primarily a 'what is in this for us' question. For example, is there a history of, say, the last 50 years of such dinners, along with the dignitary being honored ? If the dinner does correlate to substantial underlying ties, then the honourees list would indicate that. For example, I recall GW Bush honoured the Mexican and Ghanian leaders with state dinners. Did he also do so for nations like Japan, Russia or China ? I don't recall anything of the kind. As a result, my view was that state dinners are not a matter of much significance, except for Page 3 value. This isn't a criticism of any political party, but just my indicating that style != substance. Personally I would hope our press don't cover the dinner much.
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