India-US News and Discussion

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 25 Nov 2009 14:39

What an awful menu! A mere four courses.Five should've been the minimum.Such poor taste in wine too.I've organised better banquet menus and partaken of some sumptious 7+ course ones in my time.No vintage wine-California does have better wines than a "2008" bottle of plonk, and sparkling wine is NOT champagne.And Pumpkin pudding!Why,did Obama think that after midnight like Cinderella,MMS would lose his charm? In fact,the "Cinderella" treatment that MMS has got amply sums up the US's attitude.

What was striking was the body language of the Indian guests.Did one notice Montek's body langauage,that of a typical serf? Hands crossed before his body protecting his lower appendages!!! I must give credit to our good spin-doctor,he spun well at the press meet,showing Yanquis the differences between India and China-the real values that mattered! He's done well,but for saying that he was "overwhelmed" by the hospitality.You'ld never find Mrs.G saying anything so silly.India deserves a decent welcome and there's nothing to be "overwhelmed" in duly receiving with all the accompanied trappings,the representative of the world's largest democracy and one of the planet's most ancient civilisations.Let's now see what went on behind the scenes with forthcoming decisions.Obama though is still a Paki "Protector" and as long as Pak remains a US protectorate,it will spell trouble for India.

PS:MMS should've not have said that he didn't know whom to talk to in Pak,but that if one wanted to talk to Pak,then one needed to go to Washington instead!

karthik · Post by **karthik** » 25 Nov 2009 15:19

For those who missed the speech!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-vi ... ingh-india

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 25 Nov 2009 16:34

During any such visit/occasion EJ comments on various internet fora typically talk about India's caste system.

they think "caste" system is a big counterpoint to Indian democracy.

Yes, i've come across so much stereotyping on this. I've seen Paki forums being so horribly casteist while at the same time chastising India on the same. It got me to think a bit, how much is really true and how deep rooted is this 'caste' thing in India? When we arrive in boarding or University in hostels do we find casteism? Do we make friends on the basis of that? No, i've never had anyone ask me what caste i am. If Caste was that deep rooted it would'nt disappear so fast in the transition from rural to urban. This myth of evil brahminism is a myth created by Islamic and EJ journalism and propaganda. The divisions within India are class and feudal in nature over small levels of privileges. Reminded me of someone over 90 who told me this about early last century..in pre partition India. That there were certain Muslim areas which were no go. If at all a Hindu happened to cross a Muslims shadow there, he'd be flogged. I wonder in contemporary context, how much of ones own evil does one attribute to another. In the Paki and racial white contexts, i think there's much attributed to Hindus and India thats a reflection actually not so much on Hindu's but their own true selves.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 25 Nov 2009 17:18

'Explaining' the changes and 'highlighting' the affirmative actions are all meaningless exercises in response to such malicious statements. Responses should be based on the motivation of the original statement/source. They are not cases of innocent ignorance waiting to be 'corrected' by us. Instead, they are publicity-seeking tarring efforts unworthy of defensive 'explanations'. As an analogy, someone who comes and patiently wishes to learn about problems they've heard of is worth spending time explaining to, but a person who comes and rudely points a finger in ones face is not.

Of the two-fold measure mentioned, the second must be forcefully stated repeatedly with equal publicity to push them back, and then the first asserted once they're in a defensive position.

yeah I thought about the defensive part as well.

And it is probably meaningless to enter into a slanging match with such people.

However the record needs to be set straight sometimes.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 25 Nov 2009 18:20

Suraj wrote:Responses should be based on the motivation of the original statement/source.

So how does one go about that?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 25 Nov 2009 18:21

US refuses to take ISRO and DRDO off Black list: Strategic relationship under strain

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 25 Nov 2009 18:54

These are the times that I wish Commies in India were a small force to keep the balance. But I wonder how it works out though. Both the Indian Commies and Unkil are arm-twisted or influenced against the interests of Desh. So if MMS makes any concessions now, and we don't hear much hu-ha from our Commies, then it is reasonable to assume the Commies did not get any instructions from Panda. If Eagle decides to do something of its own against the wishes/interests of Panda, then the Panda exercises their "tool" in Desh.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 25 Nov 2009 19:23

If people talk about the caste system in India,we should likewise counter and talk about the class system in the US,so apparent during hurricane Katrina,where the rich all vamoosed in their SUVs and the poor,mainly Afro-Americans , were stuck without any means of escape,with the authorities also imagining that everyone would simply get into their cars and SUVs and leave! The images we saw on TV,with the rescuers pointing their guns at the survivors,imagining them to be food-rioters,treating them like animals,should be the perfect riposte to any EJ or Yanqui accuser.

As for Pak,a friend who knows the place first hand says that it is on the point of collapse and the way women are treated there is simply apalling.My pal,who is most unpopular in that land for calling a spade a spade in the relevant sphere of activity .

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 25 Nov 2009 19:40

SwamyG wrote:
Suraj wrote:Responses should be based on the motivation of the original statement/source.
So how does one go about that?

shiv saar's style is moi favorite.

I recall a yr or so ago when one chini drone crashed in and droned opn and on about PRC greatness and yindian inferiority complex blah blah.

Shiv was like" Ok. We feel inferior. So what?"

O man, 'twas a jhapad sweetly delivered, packed and sealed. The cheenu dahling was dumbstruck for quite a while figuring out what just happened. Jai Ho indeed.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 25 Nov 2009 19:52

Time to start a dedicated ro-dho dhaga for this?

Hot off the sat-phone from my see aiyyae contacts:

The White House

Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
November 24, 2009
Joint Statement between Prime Minister Dr. Singh and President Obama

INDIA AND THE UNITED STATES: PARTNERSHIP FOR A BETTER WORLD

Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh and President Barack Obama today reaffirmed the global strategic partnership between India and the United States, and launched a new phase in this partnership. Commending the deepening bilateral cooperation between the world’s two largest democracies across a broad spectrum of human endeavors, the two leaders recognized that the common ideals and complementary strengths of India and the United States today provide a foundation for addressing the global challenges of the 21st century.

The two leaders noted that the shared values cherished by their peoples and espoused by their founders – democracy, pluralism, tolerance, openness, and respect for fundamental freedoms and human rights – are acquiring an increasingly greater prominence in building a more peaceful, prosperous, inclusive, secure and sustainable world. These values are exemplified by the vibrant linkages between their peoples, which are a unique asset for both countries, and are reflected in the role played by the Indian-American community.

The two leaders resolved to harness these shared strengths and to expand the U.S.-India global partnership for the benefit of their countries, for peace, stability and prosperity in Asia, and for the betterment of the world. To this end, they committed to build upon the India-U.S. Strategic Dialogue announced in July 2009. President Obama stated that the United States looks forward to a stable and prosperous India playing an increasingly important role in world affairs.

ADVANCING GLOBAL SECURITY AND COUNTERING TERRORISM

Prime Minister Singh and President Obama recognized that the India-U.S. partnership is indispensable for global peace and security. In this context, the interests of both countries are best advanced through the values mirrored in their societies.

They acknowledged the common threat that international terrorism poses to regional and global security. They condemned terrorism in all its forms and manifestations and declared that there could be no justification for terrorism anywhere.

On the eve of its first anniversary, President Obama reiterated the United States’s condemnation of the terrorist attack in Mumbai in November 2008. The two leaders underscored the absolute imperative to bring to justice the perpetrators of this terrorist attack.

They expressed their grave concern about the threat posed by terrorism and violent extremists emanating from India's neighborhood, whose impact is felt beyond the region. The two leaders agreed that resolute and credible steps must be taken to eliminate safe havens and sanctuaries that provide shelter to terrorists and their activities. These undermine security and stability in the region and around the world.

They vowed to redouble their efforts to deal effectively with terrorism, while protecting their countries’ common ideals and shared values and committed themselves to strengthening global consensus and legal regimes against terrorism. They decided on a Counterterrorism Cooperation Initiative to expand collaboration on counterterrorism, information sharing, and capacity building.

The two leaders reiterated their shared interest in the stability, development and independence of Afghanistan and in the defeat of terrorist safe havens in Pakistan and Afghanistan. President Obama appreciated India’s role in reconstruction and rebuilding efforts in Afghanistan. The two leaders agreed to enhance their respective efforts in this direction.

The two leaders committed to continue pursuing mutually beneficial defense cooperation through the existing security dialogue, service-level exchanges, defense exercises and trade and technology transfer and collaboration. They recognized the scope for cooperation in the areas of non-traditional threats to security, peacekeeping, humanitarian and disaster relief, and maritime security and protecting sea lanes of communication. They agreed to expedite necessary arrangements to facilitate these activities.

The two leaders agreed that strengthening high technology trade between their countries is in the spirit of their strategic dialogue and partnership. They reiterated their shared commitment to technology security and that it is in their mutual interest to invigorate this area of their partnership.

Prime Minister Singh and President Obama reaffirmed their shared vision of a world free of nuclear weapons and pledged to work together, as leaders of responsible states with advanced nuclear technology, for global non-proliferation, and universal, non-discriminatory and complete nuclear disarmament. Part of that vision is working together to ensure that all nations live up to their international obligations. India reaffirmed its unilateral and voluntary moratorium on nuclear explosive testing. The United States reaffirmed its testing moratorium and its commitment to ratify the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty and bring it into force at an early date. Both leaders agreed to consult each other regularly and seek the early start of negotiations on a multilateral, non-discriminatory and internationally verifiable Fissile Material Cutoff Treaty at the Conference on Disarmament. They noted that nuclear terrorism, and clandestine networks are a matter of grave concern. Prime Minister Singh and President Obama look forward to the April 2010 Nuclear Security Summit and working together with all participating states for the success of the Summit.

ENSURING SUSTAINABLE GLOBAL DEVELOPMENT AND A CLEAN ENERGY FUTURE

Recognizing that energy security, food security, climate change are interlinked, and that eliminating poverty and ensuring sustainable development and a clean energy future are among the foremost global objectives, the two leaders agreed to enter into a Green Partnership to address these global challenges.

They two Leaders reaffirmed their intention to promote the full, effective and sustained implementation of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) in accordance with the Bali Action Plan. Recognizing their special role in promoting a successful and substantive outcome at the UNFCCC 15th Conference of Parties at Copenhagen in December, 2009, they reaffirmed their intention to work together bilaterally and with all other countries for an agreed outcome at that meeting.

The two leaders also affirmed that the Copenhagen outcome must be comprehensive and cover mitigation, adaptation, finance and technology, and in accordance with the principle of common but differentiated responsibilities and respective capabilities, it should reflect emission reduction targets of developed countries and nationally appropriate mitigation actions of developing countries. There should be full transparency through appropriate processes as to the implementation of aforesaid mitigation actions. The outcome should further reflect the need for substantially scaled-up financial resources to support mitigation and adaptation in developing countries, in particular, for the poorest and most vulnerable. It should also include measures for promoting technology development, dissemination and transfer and capacity building, including consideration of a center or a network of centers to support and stimulate climate innovation. India and the United States, consistent with their national circumstances, resolved to take significant national mitigation actions that will strengthen the world's ability to combat climate change. They resolved to stand by these commitments.

Recognizing the need to create the clean energy economy of the 21st century, Prime Minister Singh and President Obama agreed to launch a Clean Energy and Climate Change Initiative. The goal of the Initiative would be to improve the lives of the people of both countries by developing and improving access to technologies that make our energy cleaner, affordable and more efficient. The Initiative will include cooperation in wind and solar energy, second generation bio-fuels, unconventional gas, energy efficiency, and clean coal technologies including carbon capture and storage. The success of this Initiative is expected to enhance the ability of India and the United States to provide new economic opportunities for their people and create new clean energy jobs.

The two leaders intend to take practical steps to promote global food security, including by advancing the L’Aquila Food Security Initiative. They looked forward to increasing India-U.S. agricultural cooperation with the purpose of promoting agricultural research, human resources capacity building, natural resource management, agri-business and food processing, and collaborative research for increasing food productivity. This cooperation would contribute to joint development of technology that would improve weather forecasting, including predicting monsoons, and technology that would contribute to food productivity and food security efforts in India.

They agreed to collaborate in the application of their space technology and related scientific capabilities in outer space and for development purposes, including in the field of agriculture.

The two leaders reiterated their intention to realize the full potential of the India-U.S. Agreement for Cooperation concerning the Peaceful Uses of Nuclear Energy through the implementation of its provisions. They agreed to expedite U.S. firms' participation in the implementation of this agreement.

STIMULATING GLOBAL ECONOMIC REVIVAL

Prime Minister Singh and President Obama noted the new opportunities offered by their economies and their respective strengths, and their potential for future growth to catalyze global economic growth, and pledged to create conditions that would facilitate their continued expansion.

The leaders also noted that the United States is currently the largest trading partner of India in goods and services. The leaders reiterated their pledge to bolster and deepen cooperation on economic, trade and agricultural issues, including working bilaterally and with multilateral trade organizations to foster increased trade. Both leaders welcomed the potential for further expanding trade and investment between their countries, including in sectors such as infrastructure, information and communication technologies, healthcare services, education services, energy and environmentally friendly technologies.

As members of the G 20, they agreed to advance the G 20 understandings including with regard to energy security and resisting protectionism in all its forms. The two leaders agreed to facilitate greater movement of professionals, investors and business travelers, students, and exchange visitors between our two countries to enhance their economic and technological partnership.

They committed to strengthen and reform the global economic and financial architecture in the G-20, World Bank and the IMF. They resolved to seek an ambitious and balanced outcome of the Doha Round, consistent with its mandate and reaffirmed their commitment to an open, fair, equitable, transparent and rule-based multilateral trading system.

The two leaders announced their intention to develop a Framework for Cooperation on Trade and Investment. This Framework is expected to foster an environment conducive to technological innovation and collaboration, promote inclusive growth and job creation, and support opportunities for increased trade and investment - including for small and medium-sized enterprises. They agreed to launch the U.S.-India Financial and Economic Partnership to strengthen engagement on economic, financial, and investment-related issues.

The two leaders welcomed the progress achieved in the discussions on a Bilateral Investment Treaty and pledged to take further initiatives that would contribute to creating a more conducive environment for investment flows.

They recognized the contribution of the business and industrial sectors of both countries in this regard and called upon the India-U.S. CEOs Forum to identify new directions in the India-U.S. economic relationship.

EDUCATING AND EMPOWERING FUTURE GENERATIONS

Recognizing the cultural emphasis on education in both countries, Prime Minister Singh and President Obama emphasized that education holds the key to the advancement of their societies, and to a more prosperous and stable world.

They agreed that access to and development of technology was a cross-cutting requirement to meet the challenges that their two countries face. They acknowledged the fruitful collaboration between the two countries in the fields of education, research and science and technology, which has contributed to their emergence as knowledge societies.

Taking advantage of that strength, President Obama and Prime Minister Singh launched the Obama-Singh 21st Century Knowledge Initiative with funding from both sides to increase university linkages and junior faculty development exchanges between U.S. and Indian universities, including greater emphasis on community colleges.

They agreed to substantially expand the Fulbright-Nehru program to provide more student and scholar exchange grants in priority fields such as science, technology and agriculture. The two leaders reaffirmed the importance of expanding cooperation in higher education and research, and according priority to cooperation in the area of skill development.

They also expressed their support for the India-U.S. Binational Science and Technology Commission and the Endowment, which is expected to give a fresh impetus to collaboration in the cutting edge areas of scientific research, technology and development.

The leaders affirmed the importance of women’s empowerment to advancing global prosperity and stability, and welcomed the establishment of a Women’s Empowerment Dialogue to promote women’s participation and equality in all spheres. They emphasized that women’s empowerment is a cross-cutting goal that should be pursued across the full scope of U.S.-India Strategic Dialogue initiatives.

PROTECTING THE HEALTH OF OUR PEOPLE

Prime Minister Singh and President Obama welcomed the strong collaboration between India and the United States in the area of public health. They agreed to build on existing strong ties across academia and scientific communities by advancing public health and biomedical research collaborations between the United States and India. The two countries plan to establish a Regional Global Disease Detection Center in India and to build a partnership with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention . The leaders also pledged to enhance collaboration in controlling diseases such as polio, and discovering new and affordable technologies and treatments for the benefit of their peoples and for those of other countries who seek their assistance.

TOWARDS MORE EFFECTIVE GLOBAL COOPERATION

Prime Minister Singh and President Obama recognized that the India-U.S. relationship is important for managing the challenges the world will face in the 21st century.

The two leaders underscored the compelling need to put in place global institutions which are both inclusive and effective to meet present and future challenges. They welcomed the emergence of the G-20 as a premier forum to deal with international economic issues. The two leaders recognized the scope for their countries to increase cooperation in peacekeeping, development and the promotion of essential human freedoms. They committed themselves to achieving genuine reform of the United Nations including in its Security Council in a manner that reflects the contemporary realities of the 21st century and thereby enhances its ability to carry out its mandate as a representative, credible and effective forum for meeting the challenges of the new century.

Prime Minister Singh thanked President Obama and the people of the United States of America for their generous hospitality and warm welcome. President Obama looks forward to visiting India with his family in the near future.

** This statement has been corrected.

BTW, anyone know what is the Bali Action Plan and do we need a Sugriva Action Plan?

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 25 Nov 2009 19:55

I have to compliment Mrs Kaur!

She looked incredible. Very elegant and comfortable in her shoes. Her body language said, she seemed at home. No shuffling uncomfortably.

Good for her.

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 25 Nov 2009 20:18

abhijitm wrote:A low profile coverage in US media.

and good to see comparatively similar coverage in Indian media.

The US media coverage is more about Obama and less about India - US relations ...

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 25 Nov 2009 20:23

Hari gaaru:
Several times, I have to answer fellow desis onlee. So that style does not work. Have you seen the India-Unity yahoo group by any chance. It is like banging your head against a wall. Anyway other tips for being a "keyboard warrior" or "internet warrior" is always good. As always I promise to spread the gyan.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 25 Nov 2009 20:23

AnimeshP wrote:
abhijitm wrote:A low profile coverage in US media.

and good to see comparatively similar coverage in Indian media.
The US media coverage is more about Obama and less about India - US relations ...

In fact MMS speech had more about Obama and less about India-US relations

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 25 Nov 2009 20:40

SwamyG wrote:
The US media coverage is more about Obama and less about India - US relations ...
In fact MMS speech had more about Obama and less about India-US relations

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/m ... an-548094/

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 25 Nov 2009 20:42

Acharya wrote:
SwamyG wrote:
The US media coverage is more about Obama and less about India - US relations ...
In fact MMS speech had more about Obama and less about India-US relations
http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/m ... an-548094/

The thread is turning out to be like Huffington Post - Style section. Breaking down to the level of what was served, who attended, what they wore, how they carried ithiyadi. We can always rationalize our behavior.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 25 Nov 2009 20:51

SwamyG wrote:
The thread is turning out to be like Huffington Post - Style section. Breaking down to the level of what was served, who attended, what they wore, how they carried ithiyadi.

That is exactly what the state visit was shown to the Indian audience. The news about the guest list, food served, dress etc are only for India. Not other head of state who visits US gets this kind of trivial coverage. The Indian media and a small section of the Indian elite are mesmerized by these news and most Indian media cater to this segment.

There is a reason for allowing guest list to be called in before the visit to WH. Clinton did it and it gave rich rewards. All Indian "political" and vested interest move in and make connection to the administration which then used by them to build the relationship. Ordinary Indians and Indian national interest are never taken care of with this kind of vested interest buying their way inside the power circles. Talbott did not have time for others during his talks and even asked JS what is "Hindutva" as if it is alien to India.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 25 Nov 2009 22:29

Hopefully, MMSji has enough time to reflect on the divying up the world between US and China. There were some signs that MMSji had looked into the matter as he expressed his inability to understand the assertiveness of China.
Bakistan, a representative of Western interests in general but of US in particular, issues a carte-blanche to China to conduct its foreign policy affairs. Now the gloves have come off, and US has directly issued a check (carte-blanche?) to China to conduct the affairs of the region and also the world.
Beyond the seven-course gourmet meals, there needs to be strict watch over how the region pans out in short term. Hope the babus atleast have wisened up.

KaranR · Post by **KaranR** » 25 Nov 2009 23:46

Singha wrote:google says it will not remove this racist image of michelle obama that comes 1st in the image search.

http://images.google.co.in/images?hl=en ... 2&aq=f&oq=

I find nothing[racist] wrong with the photos!

KaranR · Post by **KaranR** » 26 Nov 2009 00:00

I found his [MMS] speeches calm, measured and correct.

But I fail to understand why these people cannot express in flaunt English- Terrible. Even the CNN producer in Delhi another Punjabi just could not answer in flaunts English.

The only people I remember, who impressed me were Jaswant Singh of BJP and dear Indra Gandhi.

It seems once again the British totally ignored the visit; total blackout. May be to appease their vote bank of Pakistanis’ in Uk. Indian president got the same treatment.
It seem British have become very anti Indian. May be the price India has to pay when you rise in power jealousy is the first symptom.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 26 Nov 2009 00:27

>>I fail to understand why these people cannot express in flaunt English- Terrible.

Indeed. But then again, I suppose, if one has it one must flaunt it.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Nov 2009 00:44

KaranR wrote: It seems once again the British totally ignored the visit; total blackout.

if you mean the beeb, at least in the version we get in India they were covering 'something' (*) of the visit live hosted by nik gowing. nicholas burns was also there.

(*) don't know what exactly 'something' was as I was busy watching swapan dasgupta and vinod mehta slog it out on times now with liberhans providing the fuel and arnab the occassional encouragement.

I don't know about CNN but desi channels presented the visit at no 3 or 4 in the slots.

asprinzl · Post by **asprinzl** » 26 Nov 2009 01:09

OK folks, lets admit. Indians love flattery. I would not confine that to just Indians. I am not sure about the East Asians but people from Indonesia to the Middle East love to be flattered. They love flowery discourses and it that also includes pomp and pegentry, all the better.

The British and the French perfected this art to the mocron level. They showered the little Indian prince-lings with these trinckets and in turn the little prince-lings turned over their entire store. I have no evidence that MMS has turned over the entire store or that he is an example of the prince-lings of ancient era and will not paste any brand on him. I am just giving a generalized picture from my experience.

However, I need to ask why India so badly need this permanent seat at the UNSC? Is it the need to feel good to be sitting at the high table of powerful nations and to be flattered by the lesser nations? What difference a seat there would make for India? Would it suddenly cause Pakistan to cease supporting terrorists from causing mayhem in India proper? Or would it suddenly emasculate India into becoming a more assertive nation when it comes to her interests and security needs? Would it cause China to suddenly stop supporting Pakistan or stop her shennanigans against India? What difference would it make? Without articulating what difference a UNSC seat would make for India there is no point going around the world begging to be given a seat. Is it any different from the Paki who goes all over the world asking gimme Kashmeer gimme Kashmeer gimme gimme gimme Kashmeeer?

India is too big to be kicked around unless India wants to be kicked around like the Paki elites are gleefully doing. A decision at the UNSC would have no effect on India if India choose to ignore it. A decision of by a body that has no effect on India will have not use to India.

Similarly, if India continue to dwell in the grey area of the nuclear issue, India will continually be treated in the grey area by the big nations. India needs to clearly state her nuclear policy. India needs to state for the whole world that India intends to be a powerful nuke state with both kiloton and megaton warheads. India need to state to the world that India intend to master all the cycles of nuclear fuel processing and re-processing and to put these technology to practise. If India keeps dillydallying in the grey area nothing will get accomplished and everyone will be giving flattering treatment but without substance. Little nations would not fear and big nations would not respect.

It would be like a meeting of a Paki RAPE and Desi RAPE in a posh bar in NYC. They both will be throwing flattering praises to the other to no end but both know that both are just lying through their respective teeth and at the end of the night both end up drunk. Nothing else.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Avram

KaranR · Post by **KaranR** » 26 Nov 2009 01:13

Rahul M wrote:
KaranR wrote: It seems once again the British totally ignored the visit; total blackout.
if you mean the beeb, at least in the version we get in India they were covering 'something' (*) of the visit live hosted by nik gowing. nicholas burns was also there.

(*) don't know what exactly 'something' was as I was busy watching swapan dasgupta and vinod mehta slog it out on times now with liberhans providing the fuel and arnab the occassional encouragement. I don't know about CNN but desi channels presented the visit at no 3 or 4 in the slots.

I am in UK. There was no coverage of the entire Presidential visit. Either by the BBC, Sky or CNN London.
CNN did cover the PM USA visit . But total blackout from all the British Media in UK.
Things are not too well between the labor party and the Indian government!

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 26 Nov 2009 01:26

KaranR wrote:
It seems once again the British totally ignored the visit; total blackout.

Not true:

BBC news 24 covered it as did their website along with all the major broadsheets (Times and Telegraph had it in their 'World News' section of their paper) The tabloids here also covered it but they were more interested in what Mrs Obama was wearing than anything else.

And anyway, who cares what the British establishment thinks? Do we really need their attention and praise to make us feel good. They are becoming less and less important as the days go by when it comes to the global scene.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 26 Nov 2009 01:43

KaranR wrote:I found his [MMS] speeches calm, measured and correct.

But I fail to understand why these people cannot express in flaunt English- Terrible. Even the CNN producer in Delhi another Punjabi just could not answer in flaunts English.

I suppose you mean "fluent". They may come off better sticking to Hindi or another Indian language that is their mother tongue and using a translator as a go between. Not sure if their urge to stick to English in public is the right approach when dealing with native speakers of English.

KaranR · Post by **KaranR** » 26 Nov 2009 01:46

sunnyP wrote:
KaranR wrote:
It seems once again the British totally ignored the visit; total blackout.

Not true:

BBC news 24 covered it as did their website along with all the major broadsheets (Times and Telegraph had it in their 'World News' section of their paper) The tabloids here also covered it but they were more interested in what Mrs Obama was wearing than anything else.

And anyway, who cares what the British establishment thinks? Do we really need their attention and praise to make us feel good. They are becoming less and less important as the days go by when it comes to the global scene.

It must have been on night time oversea news. But day time, I watch BBC24 , Sky and CNN. I fail to see the news or maybe, they just shown it once just to please the Indian. They have it on their web news.
As for the news papers I never buy Fleet’s street garbage,. They’re mostly owned by Rupert Murdoch. An Australian turned American. He’s basically anti Indian and the rest of the English media seem to copy him.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Nov 2009 01:48

Did it occur to anyone that India understands the US's need to give more and more legitimacy to the Obama administration, their need for adulation for the persona of President Obama? I think the cunning baniyas and brahmins of south block are under no assumptions and these things are perhaps the first things they notice.

And so in that same spirit MMS's speech was laced with those kind words about Ombaba.

(PS did anyone else notice that MMS-ji was reading the speech very slowly and Ombaba was getting impatient and reading the speech from the 'book' MMS was reading from?

)

The US has caught on to the fact about how these third world countries are suckers for ego massaging from massa, and massa can get spectacular results by some quick and dirty "Chane ke Jhaad pe chadhana" thingie. BTW this is what the great superpower has been reduced to doing, times are hard these days - can anyone imagine when the WASPs were truly in power before the 90s, before the decline began, that they would ever appease anyone? They were arrogant like hell bordering on the racist. They expected the dark third world leaders to line up to give them the muglai salaam in their darbar that they felt they were duly entitled to. They were the Superpower!

What a downfall it has been.

What I've seen is massa bending over backwards to assuage any bad feelings India might have had after what was said in the china visit, India of course always goes overboard to please the foreigners. But after this reception, MMS will find it difficult at a personal level to not do what ombaba asks of him over a phone call, and here lies the danger for India.

If it were left to the chanakyan babooze, diplomacy will lead India to be one of the G3, along with China and the US in 2-3 decades. It is only the leadership which can either smoothen or styme that process.

negi · Post by **negi** » 26 Nov 2009 02:06

Wow so these days even Dinner parties are being analysed to guage India's soft powel, pah this is the height of Chanakianess.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Nov 2009 02:36

Its surprising that deepak chopra comes in as political junkie on npr... he goes off on af-pak strategies without even having to ask a single question, till he has to be subbed down.. sheesh!

what more and who else for politics!@

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btw, ombaba must have asked about 20,000 troops from us.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 26 Nov 2009 05:01

POTUS is sending atleast 34k. At work one gora said, aap ka swagat hei when he saw me this morning.
I said dont pull TFTA on me. It aint gonna work..

Is is just me or it was just an co-incident POTUS announce his last situation meeting regarding troops increase, when MMS was in town?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Nov 2009 05:22

another large difference between MMS and BO is the age.. man...mohan...singh is soooooo old!~.. how can he be flaunting by any standards.

who would be a right match for BO, from our side? age/charisma/etc.

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I feel the troup thing is imminent.. it might not be public, but may be done by special forces agreement that is classified.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 26 Nov 2009 05:30

It is in India's interest to sent troops to Afghanistan. It was in India's interest when Bush asked back in 2003 and it is in India's interest now. However, India (in the person of Defense Minister A. K. Antony) has already stated we have no intention of sending troops. Further, I think it is unlikely that the US will ignore Paki sensibilities and actually make such a request to India.

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 26 Nov 2009 05:55

Photos: Obama's First State Dinner - Time

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Nov 2009 06:45

India already has troops on the ground in Afghanistan. But these are "paramilitary" troops (From CISF I think) for protection of the engineers at the road and infrastructure projects being undertaken there.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 26 Nov 2009 06:56

Who was the couple? Gilani and wife.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 26 Nov 2009 06:58

The cronies, czars & corruptocrats at Obama’s first state dinner
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/11/25/th ... te-dinner/

On November 25th, 2009 at 2:31 pm, RedDog said:
Put the entire invitee list in jail and you probably solve 80% of the country’s problems.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 26 Nov 2009 07:27

Nandu wrote:It is in India's interest to sent troops to Afghanistan. It was in India's interest when Bush asked back in 2003 and it is in India's interest now. However, India (in the person of Defense Minister A. K. Antony) has already stated we have no intention of sending troops.

The trial-balloon deal fell through due to 'command & control' issues, IMHO. Indian troops would want independent command and not have to operate under US command. Reason is simple, we don't wanna become cannon fodder for khanian schemes in the region.

Malayappan · Post by **Malayappan** » 26 Nov 2009 07:51

A very good piece by MKB! He is always worth reading - as long as he is not talking about Taliban's peaceful intentions!

Among other things he offers the first inputs on Holbrooke's press conference remember in the article by KP Nayar posted earlier in these pages?

India lays to rest a Bush-era ghost By M K Bhadrakumar

Some excerpts, starting with Holbrooke's comments -

Holbrooke held a two-hour press briefing to massage the Pakistani ego. He had this to say:
And no one in Pakistan, and no one in any other country, should read this [Manmohan's state visit] as a diminution of the importance we attach to them. It's entirely appropriate that someone has to have the first trip. And - it usually used to be in the past, a European ally, but they come over in informal trips ... It [the visit] in no way should be read as a diminution.

Delhi can be trusted to undertake a thorough stocktaking of the US-India relationship after Manmohan's return. The compulsion to recalibrate India's single-most important relationship is at once obvious. The dramatic transformation of the relationship in the Bush era bred illusions.

The resounding words should allay Indian elites' apprehensions regarding the drift of the US-India partnership in Obama's watch. Actually, Obama offers a mature relationship, although it is not sexy enough for the daydreamers fixated on India's "great power status". What he offers is a forward-looking relationship that is sustainable, if only the Delhi elites had the requisite self-confidence regarding their country's strengths and options in an increasingly polycentric world order.

India elites need to wake up to the Obama era, jettisoning false hopes and expectations that do not match the US's declining power and influence as a superpower. Manmohan's brief sojourn in Washington has kick-started this process.

Read it all!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Nov 2009 07:53

yeah like a roving B52 sees gunfire on thermal imager from 40kft, unleashes two heavy bombs and wipes off a marriage party just celebrating in traditional fashion. flight to diego is many dull hours, could
reach home faster if unloaded a few heavy ordnance.

the Indian army patrol who gets sent to investigate gets fired on from all sides by angry villagers and loses people.

better to keep out of qa-khan's C4I loop.