Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 11 Nov 2009 11:53

Rahul M wrote:^^^
what does the bison got to do with this ? even a small increase in capability shouldn't be ignored and this is at least equivalent to F-16 C/D level.

the more interesting question is who will pay for it ? I seriously doubt that 150 number anytime soon.

The J-10 is probably equal to F-16 blk 30/40. But the point is it can be tackled by LCA/MRCA or MKI. The simple point is IAF will take the J-10 into account in its threat matrix, but it is better to face these than 100 blk 52's.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 11 Nov 2009 11:55

krishnan wrote:The sky looks a lot more bluer in china?

photoshop is a great invention.

vavinash, all that is true but a

doesn't add anything to the discussion.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 11 Nov 2009 12:20

Point is , however good the J-10 maybe, doesn't matter if it's equal to which block of F-16. It still will not have American Avionics (which F-16 would have ) or AMRAAM firing capability (again with F-16).J-10 is completely unproven (so is SD-10), neither has it , TSP acquiring them is a threat alright but hardly a big one.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 11 Nov 2009 12:34

Like what the PAF is trying to do with JF-17, it will try and source radar and avionics package from western sources. France, Italy and South Africa are the usual suspects in these dealings. New radars, HMDCS, western BVR and WVR missiles and smart munitions willmake it a potent fighter.

The Hindu report also mentions that PAF is paying USD15million less than asking price of USD40million. IMO, this differential will go into getting the electronic hardware. From PAF pov, this is a good move. They can build a decent airforce at acceptable price levels and with out getting dumped by Uncles every now and then. Beacuse if you see the global 4th and 4++ generation aircraft market, what can the PAF afford and procure in any decent numbers? F-16s can only be had as long as Unlce foots the bill and it comes with its own headache. No Mirage 2000-5/EF-2000/Rafale/FA-18 Super Hornet, no nothing. Plus the taller than mountain and deeper than ocean freindship means that the payments can always be adjusted

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 11 Nov 2009 12:59

of all things, why the unproven argument is brought about for the SD-10 I don't understand, in fact so is the r-77. and as and when the astra is inducted same will apply to it.

anyway, the SD-10 features the same seeker and DL from the R-77 IIRC and matches it with a amraam'esque airframe. PRC also has significant prior experience from the license produced python-3 in case of WVR missiles.
if not TSPAF can use the a-darter. I find no reason to underestimate the J-10.

other than the price itself, another possible restricting factor could be the powerplant, till the WS-10 is developed to satisfaction J-10 depends on the AL-31 and that transfer hasn't been moving too smoothly. TSPAF would probably have to wait till the PLAAF's requirements are fulfilled to an extent. I don't think they can expect too much preferential treatment either.

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 11 Nov 2009 13:00

rohitvats wrote:Like what the PAF is trying to do with JF-17, it will try and source radar and avionics package from western sources. France, Italy and South Africa are the usual suspects in these dealings. New radars, HMDCS, western BVR and WVR missiles and smart munitions willmake it a potent fighter.

The Hindu report also mentions that PAF is paying USD15million less than asking price of USD40million. IMO, this differential will go into getting the electronic hardware. From PAF pov, this is a good move. They can build a decent airforce at acceptable price levels and with out getting dumped by Uncles every now and then. Beacuse if you see the global 4th and 4++ generation aircraft market, what can the PAF afford and procure in any decent numbers? F-16s can only be had as long as Unlce foots the bill and it comes with its own headache. No Mirage 2000-5/EF-2000/Rafale/FA-18 Super Hornet, no nothing. Plus the taller than mountain and deeper than ocean freindship means that the payments can always be adjusted

IF the J-10 comes with western avionics and radar the price willshoot up further.. Chinese are trying to sell their goods and advertising foreign wares on their fighter will not be acceptable to them. Even JF-17 atleast the first 50 will come with chinese avionics.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 11 Nov 2009 13:09

rohitvats wrote:hey can build a decent airforce at acceptable price levels and with out getting dumped by Uncles every now and then. Beacuse if you see the global 4th and 4++ generation aircraft market, what can the PAF afford and procure in any decent numbers? F-16s can only be had as long as Unlce foots the bill and it comes with its own headache. No Mirage 2000-5/EF-2000/Rafale/FA-18 Super Hornet, no nothing. Plus the taller than mountain and deeper than ocean freindship means that the payments can always be adjusted

Apart from a procurement standpoint. This can also be used as leverage against the Americans to either provide Pakistan with more "toys" or they'll start start praying towards Beijing. America would be hard pressed to retain control on the Pakistani generals if they dont have adequate leverage on them. This doesn't bode well from NATO troops in Afghanistan either.

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 11 Nov 2009 13:23

I doubt US is stupid enough to fall for it. The US controls the entire beggar economy of pakistan and FoDP handouts.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 11 Nov 2009 22:56

vavinash wrote: IF the J-10 comes with western avionics and radar the price willshoot up further.. Chinese are trying to sell their goods and advertising foreign wares on their fighter will not be acceptable to them. Even JF-17 atleast the first 50 will come with chinese avionics.

The western avionics are not being supplied by China. The PAF is out in the market to source these items and integrate them on the aircraft - both JF-17 and now J-10. They even got Grifo M for their F-7. And as mentioned in post, Hindu states that PAF is paying 15million USD less than the asking price of 40million USD. How the a/c is sold to other nations, like in African continent or even Latin America is different matter and configuration will depend upon the end user.

Notwithstanding the rhetoric, Pakistan Armed Forces have always understood their weaknesses (lack of resources) andhave tried to work around them. And given the leeway they have in planning for themselves, it produces results. JF-17, second hand Mirage-III/V (now upgraded), Al-Khalid and now J-10 are all examples of that.

Mayuresh · Post by **Mayuresh** » 12 Nov 2009 00:56

It is good that the air-force has ordered 2 more Akash Squadrons and the Army too is considering some squadrons.

It shall be interesting to see how Akash performs against the J-10 and the JF-17 of the TSPAF

arun · Post by **arun** » 15 Nov 2009 10:37

Times of India earlier on the Un-uniformed Jihadi’s turning on their creators, the uniformed Jihadi’s of the Armed Forces of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan

Taliban target creator, blow up ISI jihad lab

The death toll in the Friday in the 13th demonstration of the IED Mubarak variant of IEDology of Pakistan targeting the uniformed ISI Jihadi’s at Peshawar, has now climbed to 17:

Sunday, November 15, 2009

ISI attack death toll rises to 17

PESHAWAR: The death toll from a suicide car bomb that targeted the Peshawar headquarters of the Inter-Services Intelligence rose to 17 on Saturday. Sources told Daily Times that four more bodies were recovered from the rubble, taking the death toll to 17, including 14 security personnel. ………………..

Daily Times

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 15 Nov 2009 12:46

PAF IL-78 - sourced from Ukraine. Its sad that while we dilly dally on further acquistion and are stuck with mere 6 refuelers, PAF is able to induct the same aircraft. If we lack influence over Ukraine then perhaps we should have bought the aircraft.

PAF has never had this strategic capability before, IMHO a greater concern to us compared to the AEW. This acquistion also threatens over the Indian ocean apart from putting strategic airbases like Agra within reach.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_htvjsmtPrmc/S ... Force2.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_htvjsmtPrmc/S ... +Force.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_htvjsmtPrmc/S ... Force5.jpg

Good looking camo btw!

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 16 Nov 2009 14:31

BTW does anyone have any Idea of what Engine the exported version of J-10 would be carrying?? I just hope that the GOI would not sit in the sidelines if the baki j-10's come with Al-31's like they did earlier with FC-1.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 16 Nov 2009 23:24

Fazaiya starts to get upgrades

The Pakistan Air Force has received the first of the Engine Enhancement Package for installation in their F-16 fleet, according to Pratt & Whitney, the manufacturer of aircraft engines and space propulsion systems.

A statement released by the company today said it has delivered the first Pakistani Air Force F100-PW-229 Engine Enhancement Package (EEP) engine to the country this week for installation in their F-16 Block 52 aircraft.

The engine programme is valued at approximately USD 150 million and is scheduled for delivery in 2009 and 2010,.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 17 Nov 2009 16:10

ashi wrote:More:
http://www.hangkongnet.com/uploadfile/2 ... 818961.jpg
http://www.hangkongnet.com/uploadfile/2 ... 222983.jpg

Never seen MKI emitting so much of smoke (especially when flying in a straight line). Looks more like RD-33s on Mig-29s.

Cheers....

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 17 Nov 2009 16:43

neerajb wrote:
ashi wrote:More:
http://www.hangkongnet.com/uploadfile/2 ... 818961.jpg
http://www.hangkongnet.com/uploadfile/2 ... 222983.jpg
Never seen MKI emitting so much of smoke (especially when flying in a straight line). Looks more like RD-33s on Mig-29s.

Cheers....

I have never seen a MKI with single engine...

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 17 Nov 2009 16:56

milindc wrote:
neerajb wrote: Never seen MKI emitting so much of smoke (especially when flying in a straight line). Looks more like RD-33s on Mig-29s.

Cheers....
I have never seen a MKI with single engine...

Al-31 is the subject here not MKI.

Cheers....

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 17 Nov 2009 17:00

neerajb wrote:Never seen MKI emitting so much of smoke (especially when flying in a straight line). Looks more like RD-33s on Mig-29s.

Chinese maal

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 17 Nov 2009 20:41

Pak's first JF-17 combat jet to roll out next week

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 17 Nov 2009 23:33

Pak has more nuke weapons than India

For example, no reliable public information exists on where Pakistan or India produces its nuclear weapons, it said.

"Whereas many of the Chinese bases are known, this is not the case in Pakistan and India, where we have found no credible information that identifies permanent nuclear weapons storage locations," they said.

"Pakistan's nuclear weapons are not believed to be fully operational under normal circumstances, India is thought to store its nuclear warheads and bombs in central storage locations rather than on bases with operational forces. But, since all three countries are expanding their arsenals, new bases and storage sites probably are under construction," the two nuclear experts said.

arun · Post by **arun** » 19 Nov 2009 14:22

X Posted.

Year of cohabiting with jihadi terrorists as a strategic card to play against India comes back to infect the Pakistan armed forces with the jihadi virus.

Besides Ilyas Kashmiri, another ex-military officer who is said to have “recently left the Pakistani Army and held the rank of colonel or brigadier general” is reported by the NYT of being involved with the alleged terrorists of Pakistani origin, David Coleman Headley (aka Daood Gilani) and Tahawwur Hussain Rana who were arrested in Chicago.

Keeping in mind the “recently left” description, it will be interesting to see if any of the suspected conspiratorial interactions were undertaken during the individuals uniformed tenure:

Ex-Military Officer in Pakistan Is Linked to 2 Chicago Terrorism Suspects

By DAVID JOHNSTON and ERIC SCHMITT
Published: November 18, 2009

WASHINGTON — The arrests last month of two Chicago men accused of planning an attack on a Danish newspaper have widened into a global terrorism inquiry that has led to arrests in Pakistan and implicated a former Pakistani military officer as a co-conspirator, government officials said Wednesday. ..........................

The case is one of the first criminal cases in which the federal authorities seem to have directly linked terrorism suspects in the United States to a former Pakistani military officer, though they have long suspected connections between extremists and many members of the Pakistani military. ...........................

The officials declined to name the other former military officer in the case, who is suspected as a co-conspirator. He is said to have recently left the Pakistani Army and held the rank of colonel or brigadier general, higher ranks than Mr. Kashmiri held. .......................

New York Times

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 23 Nov 2009 16:15

First JF-17 Thunder handed over to PAF

The first state of the art JF-17 Thunder multi-role fighter plane produced in Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) Kamra handed over to Pakistan Air Force.

Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani was the chief guest at the rolling out which held at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex at Kamra.

“On this historic occasion, I congratulate the nation as JF-17 is not only a PAF programme but a national project. This day will be remembered as a landmark in the history of Pakistan,” he said.

PM said PAF has repeatedly proved equal to the task even in the most challenging times, measuring up to the expectations of the nation in safeguarding the sacred soil and skies of Pakistan. In the recent drive against militants, PAF side by side with Pak Army is endeavouring to root out terrorism from the country, the premier said.

“I am grateful to our Chinese friends for providing PAF the required technical assistance for the programme,” Gilani said.

Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman and Chinese ambassador were also present in the ceremony.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 23 Nov 2009 16:58

he first state of the art JF-17 Thunder multi-role fighter plane produced in Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) Kamra handed over to Pakistan Air Force.

The chinese have publicly stated the project as being a low cost - medium tech fighter but Pukes would never get tired of over stating it. Besides, they speak of it as though they've done all the work and only some technical assistance was provided by china , whereas I find it hard to believe that Pukes had any contribution in it apart from Observers in the Chinese units.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 23 Nov 2009 17:27

Nihat wrote:I find it hard to believe that Pukes had any contribution in it apart from Observers in the Chinese units.

Hey don't say that, they painted it all on their own!

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 23 Nov 2009 19:19

^^
something is better then nothing. at least they have something working (even if its indigenous paint). That's a threat for us, even if its small.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 25 Nov 2009 04:16

Pakistan’s P-3 Orion Maritime Aircraft - and their Harpoons

While the P-3 Orion and Harpoon missile orders are separate deals, the Harpoon is the Orion’s critical surface warfare capability. A P-3 without Harpoon missiles is a patrol aircraft and a threat to submarines. One with Harpoon missiles ca become a threat to any surface ship within the wide arc of its range – which in Pakistan’s case extends to the Strait of Hormuz and across a wide swathe of the Indian Ocean.
Lockheed Martin Corp. in Eagan, MN receives a $4.4 million modification to a previously awarded indefinite-delivery/ indefinite-quantity contract (N00019-06-D-0012) to upgrade 7 P-3C aircraft for the government of Pakistan under the Foreign Military Sales program. This modification will replace the obsolete and unsustainable avionics systems currently installed with modern equipment.

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 25 Nov 2009 04:28

Dmurphy wrote:
Nihat wrote:I find it hard to believe that Pukes had any contribution in it apart from Observers in the Chinese units.
Hey don't say that, they painted it all on their own!

I am sure even the paint was 'Made in China'
lol

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 25 Nov 2009 07:51

Raveen wrote: I am sure even the paint was 'Made in China'
lol

And hence full of lead

arun · Post by **arun** » 25 Nov 2009 12:22

arun wrote:X Posted.

Year of cohabiting with jihadi terrorists as a strategic card to play against India comes back to infect the Pakistan armed forces with the jihadi virus.

Besides Ilyas Kashmiri, another ex-military officer who is said to have “recently left the Pakistani Army and held the rank of colonel or brigadier general” is reported by the NYT of being involved with the alleged terrorists of Pakistani origin, David Coleman Headley (aka Daood Gilani) and Tahawwur Hussain Rana who were arrested in Chicago.

Keeping in mind the “recently left” description, it will be interesting to see if any of the suspected conspiratorial interactions were undertaken during the individuals uniformed tenure:

Ex-Military Officer in Pakistan Is Linked to 2 Chicago Terrorism Suspects

By DAVID JOHNSTON and ERIC SCHMITT
Published: November 18, 2009

WASHINGTON — The arrests last month of two Chicago men accused of planning an attack on a Danish newspaper have widened into a global terrorism inquiry that has led to arrests in Pakistan and implicated a former Pakistani military officer as a co-conspirator, government officials said Wednesday. ..........................

The case is one of the first criminal cases in which the federal authorities seem to have directly linked terrorism suspects in the United States to a former Pakistani military officer, though they have long suspected connections between extremists and many members of the Pakistani military. ...........................

The officials declined to name the other former military officer in the case, who is suspected as a co-conspirator. He is said to have recently left the Pakistani Army and held the rank of colonel or brigadier general, higher ranks than Mr. Kashmiri held. .......................

New York Times

X Posted. More on officers of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan living out the “ Jihad Fi Sabilillah “ or “ Jihad in the way of Allah “ part of their motto.

Associated Press reports that one retired Brigadier and two serving Lieutenant Colonels of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan have been arrested for assisting the Pakistani origin alleged Jihadi Islamic terrorists Tahawwur Hussain Rana and Daood Gilani aka David Coleman Headley :

Pakistani officials: 5 army officers detained

Major-General Athar Abbas’, spokesman of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan denies and claims only a retired Major has been arrested:

Pakistani army officer arrested for alleged link to U.S. terror plot

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 28 Nov 2009 19:38

Pakistan to buy German subs, ignore French
But, we are still in process

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 28 Nov 2009 19:59

this is a very old news dated 2008 , they do not have money to buy even the engine for the sub

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 28 Nov 2009 20:10

Pakistan building defensive bunkers along border:BSF DG

He said it looks that building such defensive bunkers could be a preventive measure in case of attacks on its border posts by the Taliban or other militant.

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Dec 2009 08:11

X Posted.

The Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan seems to be running an operation to intimidate journalists.

Kamran Shafi receives death threats and had his house shot at. Kamran Shafi believes that “the threat were from inside the powerful security establishment, possibly from the military’s intelligence arm, Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI.”:

Pakistani Journalist Critical of the Military Is Threatened

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Dec 2009 14:26

X Posted.

Excerpt from Spiegel Online’s interview of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani datelined Dec 1, 2009.

Looks like the purchase of HDW Type 214 submarines will take some time, if the sale happens at all:

SPIEGEL: There have been a lot of media reports in recent months about Pakistan's plans to buy submarines from Germany, something which is controversial in Germany given the political situation in Pakistan. Do you also plan to talk about buying German submarines during your visit to Berlin? Or has your government already decided to buy French submarines instead?

Gilani: It will take some time. The army chief to whom I talked about this on Thursday told me that we are successfully moving forward. But this is related to all kind of defense matters, not only about the issue you are talking about. But I can assure you, there is a defense cooperation with Germany, too, and we are already in the process of signing a memorandum with the Germans.

SPIEGEL Interview with Pakistan's Prime Minister

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Dec 2009 09:10

This Daily Telegraph article posted by Malayappan certainly deserves multiple X Posts.

I am not surprised that the Islamic Jihadi terrorist Willie Brigitte was trained by the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. The Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan was merely living out the latter part of their motto of “Iman. Taqwa. Jihad-fi-Sabilillah” or translated into English “Faith, Piety, Jihad in the path of Allah”

Malayappan wrote:Willie Brigitte was trained by Pakistan militaryThe Daily Telegraph

Actually finding it difficult to post excerpts as there are too many specific references!

WHEN Willie Brigitte was sent to Pakistan for terrorist training, he thought his identity would be safe.

A fair assumption, since it has just been revealed it was rogue elements in Pakistan's own army that trained, armed and deployed him to Australia to carry out a terrorist attack.

Transcripts from in-camera evidence in his 2007 trial reveal Pakistan security forces supplied trainers and arms to Lashkar-e-Toiba extremists as they trained hundreds of foreign operatives in a complex in the mountains

One army/LET officer Brigitte met was called Sajid and it is he who sent the French national to Sydney to link up with an already established terror cell. It is Sajid who British M15 now suspect has plotted - and is still plotting - a terror attack in Britain.

There is an Interpol warrant for his arrest as well as a number of Pakistan military and intelligence officers identified as terrorists.

arun · Post by **arun** » 06 Dec 2009 08:59

The practitioners of “Jihad in the path of Allah” have their snouts deeply embedded in the trough of the public exchequer

In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan it appears that the uniformed Jihadi’s of the Army are no less adept at milking the public exchequer for personal gain than their underlings, the Politicians:

Five generals also got their loans written off.

Sunday, December 06, 2009

By Rauf Klasra

ISLAMABAD: If you thought that only civilian and politicians got billions of rupees worth of loans written off from state-owned banks, you thought wrong.

Records now show that many top military officers got their loans written off. This lucky lot included five lieutenant generals, two major generals and a battalion of other senior uniformed beneficiaries, with some Army (mis)managed institutions to boot.

The Army controlled institutions also got their share from the national plunder with the Army Welfare Trust (AWT) got a massive loan written off worth Rs 14.49 million from a state-owned financial entity, which is now defunct (hardly a surprising fate). ……………………..

According to the official list of loan write-off beneficiaries tabled in the National Assembly, Lt General (retd) Ali Kuli Khan and his father Lt General Habibullah Khan had their loans written off. General Kuli had shot to prominence when he was ignored by the then prime minister Nawaz Sharif in favour of Gen Musharraf in a bid to succeed General Jehangir Karamat as the next COAS ………………………….

Lt General (retd) K M Azhar, who later became active in politics, of Rex Breen Batteries got Rs16 million written off by the Agriculture Development Bank. His business partners were Misbah Azhar, Sward Azhar, Ahmed Jamal Siddiqui, Syed Ijaz Ahmed Hashmi, Mauro Dr Bashir Ahmed.

Lt General (retd) SA Burkey and Lt General (retd) Safdar Butt also figure amongst the happy generals benefiting from the state institutions generosity.

Another prominent name on the list is that of Air Marshal (retd) A Rahim Khan.

Air Marshal (retd) Viqar Azeem also got Rs15 million written off from Pakistani Kuwait Investment Co. Lt General (retd) SA Burkey, Major General Zahid Ali Akbar, Brig MM Mahmood, Begum Omar Mahmood, Saeed Ahmed also got loans written off.

Gohar Ayub Khan, brother of General Kuli Khan—Raza Kuli Khan also got a loan of Rs7.2 million written off against Rehana Woolen Mills. Tariq Ayub Khan, Zahid Ahsan, Ahsan Khan were the directors of the mills whose loan was written off by the financial institution SAPICO.

Major General (retd) M Mumtaz from Abbottabad, Lt Colonel (retd) Shaukat and Major (retd) Tajuddin Rs1.2 million, Major General (retd) Ghaziuddn are also in the list. Major General (retd) G Umar also got Rs8.5 million written off from the Agriculture Development Bank.

Lt General (retd) Safdar Butt, Major General (retd) Abdullah Malik, Brig (retd) M M Mahmood, Col (retd) M Zafar Khan, Mohammad Afzal Khan, Mrs Hamida Farhat also got benefits from the UBL. General (retd) Abdullah had resigned after the military coup of General Zia and had opposed the military take over of July 1977. ………………………….

The News

arun · Post by **arun** » 06 Dec 2009 12:48

X Posted.

Editorial in the News on the Rawalpindi Mosque attack of December 4th (Clicky) which took out senior Pakistani officers, including a Major General, speculates that the uniformed Jihadi’s of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan were targeted by some of their very own kind :

The beast within

Sunday, December 06, 2009 …………………

There is now a growing sense that the militants may have links to the security apparatus. There have been unconfirmed reports that former police or army personnel could be involved. ………………

The News

arun · Post by **arun** » 07 Dec 2009 12:21

X Posted.

Kapil Komireddi concludes his five part serial published in Frum Forum with a piece datelined Dec. 07, 2009 on the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Part V. Dec. 07, 2009. “Pakistan’s Army: Building a Nation for Jihad”

While not dealing with the Pakistan Army, those interested in other matters Pakistani, can access the other four parts of this five part serial at the below posted web links:

Part I. Nov 16, 2009. “Pakistan In Crisis”.

Part II. Nov 18. 2009. “Pakistan: Origins of A Failed State”.

Part III. Nov 18, 2009. “Pakistan: It Could Not Succeed Unless India Failed”.

Part IV. Dec 06, 2009. “Pakistan: A Mecca for Radical Islam”.

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 08 Dec 2009 14:34

Will send troops to Pakistan to shut down Taliban: Obama

http://news.rediff.com/interview/2009/d ... aliban.htm

Here comes Uncle Sam to Pakistan.

I think Obama is generous. He knows that Pakistan is feeling being left out after he invited Manmohan Singh for state dinner. So he must have thought that the better option is to go there to ensure them personally that don't worry we are here. We are not going anywhere but before I come I want my troops to check out the pakistani food especially Kabab & see if they are OK. If they are then we can shift to Pakistan permanently because our troops in Afghanistan are complaining about Afghan dry fruits that they have been having for so many years.

On a sidenote I think, this is an important development from India's perspective. Today they are planning to send troops to pakistan to flush out Taliban from their western border but If pakistan becomes today's Afghanistan after 5 years then Unkil will ask India to open up its borders for their troops to flush out Taliban from Pakistan's eastern border.

Stay awake India

VijayKumarSinha · Post by **VijayKumarSinha** » 08 Dec 2009 16:25

arun wrote:X Posted.

Kapil Komireddi concludes his five part serial published in Frum Forum with a piece datelined Dec. 07, 2009 on the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Part V. Dec. 07, 2009. “Pakistan’s Army: Building a Nation for Jihad”

In part 5 at the end of the article Kapil says, "...was a south Indian Muslim called Abdul Hamid.".

Which is incorrect because Abdul Hamid was born in the Gazipur district of Uttar Pradesh, other than that the article made a great reading.