Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

KrishnaMu · Post by **KrishnaMu** » 29 Nov 2009 17:39

If really want piss of a paki

I was in Dublin city centre as usual Irish weather turned gusty and horizontal rain (normal vertical rain is guaranteed for 300 days), so I took shelter in a mediterian store, it has customers mix of maritians, south asian communities. There is small deli so I ordered tea and samosa waiting.. there next to me this irritating with paki punjabi accent. Shoving chicken biryani in his mouth with bare hands. I regret coming to that restaurant instead I could have gone pub for Guinness.

He asked me where you from, I replied back “Quetta, Baluchistan”. He argued why dont you say ur from Pak. I said Baluchistan is never in Pakistan. We will freedom from Pakistan one day or other day. Man he is really really pissed of now. Nothing he can do.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 29 Nov 2009 17:57

Only in Bakistan..

AMRITSAR: A Sikh advocate in Pakistan was reportedly thrashed and threatened with dire consequences recently if he did not convert to Islam, forcing his family to run for safety to a gurdwara in Hassanabdal near Rawalpindi.

While the victim, Anup Singh, was yet to regain consciousness, the incident has left the Sikh community in Pakistan rattled and insecure. Talking to TOI from Islamabad, Anup’s brother, Ravinder Singh, recalled horror of November 21. ‘‘A group of at least eight men kidnapped my brother from his office and took him to Mohammad Amin’s residence, where he was stripped and photographed with Amin’s wife.’’

Undergoing treatment for fractures and severe head injuries in Holy Family Hospital, Ralwalpindi, where doctors said it might take a few months before Anup could start leading a normal life, the advocate was reportedly assaulted for fighting a separation case for Amin’s wife, Safina Kanwal. ‘‘The goons made my brother sign on a blank paper, after which they cut his hair, beard, moustaches and threatened him to convert to Islam if he wanted to live in Pakistan.’’

Pak Sikh thrashed for not converting

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 29 Nov 2009 18:19

Pakistan opposition urges prez to give up powers

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan's main opposition party demanded Sunday that the president immediately relinquish much of his power amid calls for the unpopular leader to assume a ceremonial role or resign.

The political turmoil threatens to distract the U.S.-allied country from its fight against the Taliban and al-Qaida near the Afghan border.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 29 Nov 2009 18:28

Pakistan troops kill eight militants: officials

JAMRUD, Pakistan — Troops in Pakistan's northwest tribal areas killed eight Islamist insurgents Sunday, officials said, as the military pursues an ambitious offensive in the Taliban's mountain strongholds.

Four militants were killed during a search operation in Bara town in Khyber district, which lies between Peshawar and Afghanistan.

"Four militants were killed and several others were wounded in search operations in different parts of Bara," a senior military official told AFP, requesting anonymity as he was not authorised to speak to the media.

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » 29 Nov 2009 18:29

An Expat Indians account of his Kashmir trip. This I am posting from other forum.

I would really suggest that you visit Kashmir during polling time and judge for yourself if India is ruling Kashmir against the will of the people. Maybe the media and the army in Pakistan wants its citizens to believe otherwise so that the vested interests in Pakistan can continue to enjoy its privileges

I was on a ski holiday last Dec and landed there on polling day. Below are my impressions after talking to the few people - taxi drivers, cottage care taker, ski guide...Ofcourse it is not a representative sample and maybe these people did not want to share their true feelings / views but I could sense that they were not lying.

We landed in Srinagar and we could right away sense the difference because of the heavy security presence with gun toting police and army staff everywhere. We could also see the army buildings on either side of the runway. The first formality was to complete the foreigner registration process (I am of Indian origin but not a citizen). At the counter we were met by a very friendly official who gave us a form to fill up for each individual. Essentially, we had to state the purpose of the trip, places to be visited and the names of hotels / cottages we planned to stay. I casually asked the official what is the purpose of filling up these forms because any determined trouble maker can easily lie. He assured me the govt does cross checking of the data and what he did not tell me was the profiling of people whom they would really check out in detail. The official was a local Kashmiri and I saw him grilling an Arab family who had flown all the way from somewhere just to see snow.

Like most Indians my impressions of Kashmiris was that they would call us 'You Indians' and also that they were generally hostile to be part of India. It is a complete lie based on the limited set of people I met. I landed on the day of elections in Srinagar and there was a mini curfew there with army patrolling all the streets. People were walking the streets and we found decent queues at many polling stations on our way.

Almost all the people I met had similar views as below

Elections are a good thing for J&K and they wanted a less corrupt govt who will take care of the developmental needs of J&K. Right out of the airport and on the way to Gulmarg there are real big and fancy houses and I was told that many of these houses are owned by corrupt officials. They also told me that the large amount of aid money from the central govt is siphoned off by corruption and very little actually flows down to development.

All of them were quite vocal about the polarization politics played by BJP with the Amarnath shrine land deal. They were all sad that BJP was trying to drive a wedge between the people of J&K because of narrow minded political gains. The very fact that everyone I met was keen to talk about Indian politics told me that they look at themselves as Indians and not as an independent nation. The next common theme I heard was the change in the people's mindsets over the years. In the late 80's and early 90's the whole population was seeing everything right in Pakistan and everything wrong with India. They also told me the militancy and insurgency has made people change their minds about Pakistan. They realize they can never be an independent nation with powerful neighbors breathing down their necks and their only sensible choice was to be with a nation that will be beneficial to the locals - India. I never ever heard anyone ever saying you Indians and I only heard "we" in India. I heard the same story from my hotel companions - the South Africans and the Yanks who interacted with the locals.

All of them equated militancy / kidnappings with lack of development and lack of tourism in J&K. It has affected the pockets of the labor class and they are feeling the pinch. I was also told the separatist movement has very little support amongst the Kashmiri population and one of them was very vocal about why the govt is providing security cover to the hurriyat leaders and why they are wasting money sending these crooks to other parts of the world. The person said if these hurriyat guys are true people leaders then they should need no cover. I asked him what happens if some mad person kills the hurriyat leader and thereby a riot starts. He was very serious when he told me that no Kashmiri will shed a tear for these crooks. Like all politicians in India these hurriyat leaders children go to expensive private schools abroad, get the best medical treatment and I could figure out the anger in this Kashmiri when he told me this. This person was even more angry when he asked my why Manmohan Singh wants to talk Kashmir with Pakistan. His view - Kashmir is a settled matter with the Simla pact and the LoC is a de-facto international border. By Manmohan agreeing to talk Kashmir we Indians are only telling Pakistan that Simla pact is not valid. This Kashmiri was very passionate about his views but generally everyone wanted India and Pakistan to have true peace with existing LoC as the international border. A Kashmiri journalist was frank with me when she told me the different groups are funded by different sources - RAW, ISI, FBI, Chinese and each one behaves according to their master's interests with scant regard for the public. I asked the reporter why she cannot do a Kashmir story showing a different side of Kashmir to the rest of India. Here again she was frank and told me such things will not sell or appeal to the public based on her experience. She told me what sells is sensationalism, war, terror attacks and not peace and happiness. I made my parting remark to her that if she is passionate about something then she should find a way to get the story to the people.

The taxi driver who has ferried passengers arriving by the Muzzafarabad - Srinagar bus said Indian part of Kashmir is more developed than the Pakistani side. He says India should be liberal in granting visas to the Pakistanis so that they can see for themselves what India offers. All of the Kashmiris also said that there is very little true public support within PoK for Pakistan. I have to say that most of the Kashmir I saw had poverty and poor living conditions. Except for the few big houses I saw in Srinagar I did not see any wealth there and that is not a good sign.

I was freely talking politics with everyone I met and I only wish my hindi was good to carry out a serious and good conversation. My favorite topic was the infiltrators from Pak and I asked them how this happens. I was quite shocked with some of the responses. They were challenging me to visit the border area to check out if it was really possible for anyone to sneak past the electrified fence. They all felt the lower level army officials take bribes to let these people in. I asked one of the army sentries how come infiltrators come across the border and he said the infiltrators throw a grenade at the fence to create a hole for infiltration. One would really never know how these things happen. It is an amazing feat by the army to have fenced this mountainous border with a very difficult terrain. One gets to better appreciate only when you visit the place

The other comment which was also a common theme - the Kashmiris do not buy Indian govt's views of blaming everything on ISI. They felt some of the stories coming in the newspapers lack credibility and sometimes they do not tally with the truth / different reports coming out on different days{Kashmiris will know more about the Mumbai attacks then all of us. The logistics and who might have done the supporting work from the Indian side and where they all vanished after that. Our shoddy media and security agencies will leave a big gaping hole there and ignore those facts}. We in Mumbai or Kolkatta believe what is written in the papers but looks like the local Kashmiris know a bit more to challenge the official views.

I left Gulmarg on the day of the vote counting. I found people huddled in all the places keenly following the results. That was a real positive sign for India. Every new announcement on the party position was keenly debated by the people I saw both in Gulmarg and in Srinagar and I felt very encouraged. The Gulmarg guys were rooting for PDP which I later learnt had religious leanings and echoing somewhat the sentiments of the separatists. I later learnt PDP had done some good things for tourism and no wonder the Gulmarg guys were rooting for PDP. The Srinagar guys wanted NC because they felt Omar Abdullah truly speaks his mind and will do good things for J&K. The driver on the return ride to Srinagar showed me the place where Mufti's daughter was released by the kidnappers (a very busy market place and I suspect it was stage managed) and also an ex terrorist squatting in front of a shop. This guy apparently went to Afghanistan for terror training but now has given up militancy and is in business with his father.

While waiting in Delhi for my flt to Mumbai I chatted with a few other Kashmiris who were also coming with me from Srinagar. This guy's views summed it all up. He was very mad and upset that the media in rest of India is portraying Kashmir as a dangerous place which cannot be visited by tourists. He asked me if I felt that way and if not, he wanted me to tell all my friends about the true state of Kashmir. Truly speaking I never felt any danger either in Gulmarg or in Srinagar. I took a long lonely walk from houseboat to Lal Chowk thru both crowded and deserted streets late evening and never once did I feel scared. It was like walking in any other city of India except that we could see a lot of fully armed and ready to shoot police and army staff. Kashmiris are very hospitable and nice people and except for the cold weather I did like that place. He was equally mad that the rest of India looks at every Kashmiri as a terrorist hell bent upon breaking away from India when the actual truth is that most Kashmiris have always voted to be part of India. His views were based on the treatment his son who is studying in Pune gets by his fellow college mates.

Based on my limited interactions and however unrepresentative the sample might be, I feel India has its best chance in Kashmir now and we should drive home the advantage with some good governance and development. Maybe, one day the tide will turn and the PoK people will agitate to break free from Pakistan and be part of India. I am also sure US and China will never let this happen because it then means the disintegration of Pakistan.

http://chowk.com/interacts/16682#441807

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 29 Nov 2009 19:36

A Kashmiri journalist was frank with me when she told me the different groups are funded by different sources - RAW, ISI, FBI, Chinese

FBI? Really?

Is this journalist related to the other female journalist across the border?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Nov 2009 19:50

cross post for visibility

Here is an MP3 audio of some terrorists conversations with their handlers. It's not too long and some snatches are repeated.

I need a translation please.

I will use the translations in a suitably dubbed video for psyops

http://rapidshare.com/files/313820041/26-11AUD.mp3

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 29 Nov 2009 20:07

Telli-bunnies capture Pooki Bunker
Watch the second half.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 29 Nov 2009 20:09

shiv wrote:I need a translation please. I will use the translations in a suitably dubbed video for psyops http://rapidshare.com/files/313820041/26-11AUD.mp3

Can't download it anymore. No more free slots.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 29 Nov 2009 20:12

Akshut wrote:
A Kashmiri journalist was frank with me when she told me the different groups are funded by different sources - RAW, ISI, FBI, Chinese
FBI? Really? Is this journalist related to the other female journalist across the border?

Does she look short, frumpy, pis$ed off, irritable, lacking in sleep, heavily made up, miss-know-it-all, with a perpetual frown? Then yes.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Nov 2009 21:42

anupmisra wrote:
shiv wrote:I need a translation please. I will use the translations in a suitably dubbed video for psyops http://rapidshare.com/files/313820041/26-11AUD.mp3
Can't download it anymore. No more free slots.

Same file on photobucket
http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/cy ... 11-aud.flv

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 29 Nov 2009 21:52

There is no point in talking to the "Pakistani government" when that government consists of at least two factions, one of which is devoted to striking India by any and all means, most specifically by a variety of terrorist attacks. I say "two factions", but it is not even clear that the many factions in Pakistan differ on the desirability of hitting India with terrorism.

In fact, any faction that is in favor of not using the jihad will probably be successfully tarred and feathered by its opponents as being unIslamic, anti-Pakistan and collaborators with the Kafirs. Any Indian overtures to such a faction would actually be counter-productive to the continued existence of such a faction.

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 29 Nov 2009 21:59

of the two faction . both are same face, one which is visious against india and the other speaks peace as lip service and calls for dialogue and try to get to kashmir.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 29 Nov 2009 22:23

Pakistan must help break al-Qaeda, says Brown

Brown warns Pakistan on al-Qaeda

Gordon Brown has told the BBC that Pakistan must do more to "break" al-Qaeda and find Osama Bin Laden.

Questions must be asked about why nobody had been able "to spot or detain or get close to" the al-Qaeda leader, the prime minister said.

He said he wanted to see "more progress in taking out" Bin Laden and his second-in-command Ayman Zawahir

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8384994.stm

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 29 Nov 2009 22:35

Shiv,

B.R. Ambedkar wrote (of the 1940s) that Muslims see themselves locked in a death struggle with the Hindus and so e.g., Muslim workers would not support Hindu co-workers union action against a Muslim capitalist, though the economic interests would objectively outweigh any religious commonality. For your strategy to work, it is necessary that both Hindus and Muslims in India not see themselves in such a fight, but rather sharing a common citizenship. Not to whitewash the problems but to believe that they are resolvable in the context of the shared citizenship.

I think that is a precondition to using your proposal to undermine Pakistaniyat. Judging even just by the tempers on BRF, India is not yet there.

-Arun

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 29 Nov 2009 23:11

Jaswant Singh’s Jinnah

An unknown pooki brigadier writes of his contempt for JS's "critique" of Djinnah in less than glowing terms. In his own words "This is hardly the kind of language one uses for a distinguished contemporary and the ‘sole spokesman’ of Indian Muslims."

Excerpts from the good brig's belly ache:

IN his controversial book Jinnah: India — Parition — Independence, Jaswant Singh writes that, ‘Jinnah was potentially kind, but in behaviour extremely cold and distant. Gandhi embodied compassion; Jinnah did not wish to touch the poor.’ (P.78)

In the author’s view Jinnah’s outlook was all realpolitik, unsupported by any ideological content.

Ideological waffling like a yo-yo.

In other words, Pakistan was a failed state even at it birth.

Couldn't agree more.

Nehru: ‘If I had to listen to my dear friend Mohammad Ali Jinnah talking the most unmitigated nonsense about his 14 points … I would consider the desirability of retiring to a South Sea island where there would be some hope of meeting people who were intelligent enough or ignorant enough not to talk of the 14 points.’

Whether Mr Singh used the quote as part of a sober history or to castigate Jinnah by proxy is not clear. However, this not the sort language one would use for someone he wishes to glorify.

Duh!

Reacting to Jinnah’s reservations about the constitutional draft tabled at the 1931 Round Table conference in London, Nehru denounced them as an ‘amazing farrago of nonsense and narrow-minded communalism.’

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 29 Nov 2009 23:20

Logo of PakWheels.com

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 29 Nov 2009 23:25

Akshut wrote:Logo of PakWheels.com

Just a reflection that Pakis do like to ride their goats!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 29 Nov 2009 23:26

Ananya wrote:another of Nucleal war , a limited nuclear war....

http://pkaffairs.com/playshow.asp?pageId=6407

after 20 Mts

The info about Talibanization inside India is very provocative and next step in Paki plan. This is a good indicator about how they want to continue down the road. They want fire everywhere which they want to see and capitalize on.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 30 Nov 2009 02:02

shiv wrote:cross post for visibility

Here is an MP3 audio of some terrorists conversations with their handlers. It's not too long and some snatches are repeated.

I need a translation please.

I will use the translations in a suitably dubbed video for psyops

http://rapidshare.com/files/313820041/26-11AUD.mp3

Hope it helps:

Code: Select all

1.success (looks like he was saying: you will have success very soon) 

2. yes yes

 Inshallah .. 

1. allah and heavens are waiting for you

inshallah






1. keep it/him facing forward and place it(gun) in the back of his head and then kill 


1. garbled audio..(inj kaa hove. may be it means the work should be like that)
rest sounds like: the world should remain terrified


1. (In punjabi)you had a guy with you in taxi. Did you kill him?
2.  yes. yes. we finished him
1.  how?
2. zibah kiya thaa (death by beheading)





1. (bad audio punjabi--) ...means that we are the god's people who have been chosen for 
protection of deen (bad audio)




1 (heavy punjabi accent) .......and in this way , many people are wounded, many are dead and they are saying approximately 50 *fidayeens have entered the city* (*bad audio). there are firings going on in whole city. many people are dead. allah has given you a very noble cause/work. theek hai(correct?) ?

2. yes

1. so my brother, this time...



1. Punjabi
  Inshallah by allah.. jannat is very near for you.

2. acha (ok)

3. (bad audio, same clip as the 2nd  )[inj kaa hove.] may be it means the work should be like that 
the world should remain terrified





1. shabash. I was saying that one guy killed there is equivalent to 50 guys killed here.
2. (in english)don't worry behena(sister). just sit back and relax and wait for them to contact us.ok

distressed female voice: yes sir

2. and save your energy for the .....(bad audio) and if they contact right now maybe you're gonna celebrate sabbath with your family


Punjabi
1. asslam walekum
2. wallekum asslam. how do you do Fadullah. khairiyat hai?(everything ok)
1  (takes some names)[ allah nu pyaare ho gaye] are dead
2. (pause) acha? nobody is with you?
may allah accept their sacrifice.

1. room is on fire. they are showing it in media ...(bad audio)

2. conditions of arrest(and surrender) are not be made possible..keep that in mind
1. inshallah inshallah

2.fadullah..aren't conditions be made like that you go out and fight. try getting outside (in open) by exploding grenades?
1.  grenades..(bad audio)

2. (you) have to be courageous. don't be fearful. look getting shot is success only. heavens are waiting for you.

1. inshallah

2. may allah protect you.


2. keep phone in pocket and (bad audio)

firing

2.(in a weak voice) fadullah? fadullah?? (bad audio)






1. listen
2. jee jee
1. get rid of them right now . get free. anytime firing will start and these will remain behind
2. no. inshallah.. there is no movement right now at my side.
1. no no don't wait. you don't know when the firing will start, in what way, what intensity.
 keep/position them in such a way that bullet won't come back to you after recoiling from the wall in front.
2. inshallah inshallah
1. i'm holding the call
   
 do it. do it. i'm listening

2. shall (we) fire ?

1. yes fire.

  
keep it/him facing forward and place it(gun) in the back of his head and then kill 

2. actually, I let Omar sleep just a while ago. I was thinking to let him sleep a while.. he was unwell

1. I'll call after half an hour. (fir rukhsat karna) kill them then.




1. asslam walekum
2. yes brother. 
1. don't get angry. this thought was getting into mind frequently..settings were changed 
2. is the work done or not
1. in front of you. i was waiting for your call. thats why i was waiting


2. do it bismillah
   do it bismillah
 no sound came

--gunshot--
hello. hello ok
2. one done yet?
1 both




(helicopter engine sound in background)
inshallah . i was thinking.today is jummah. (hamein takra jana chahiye). we should get into the (final)fight

gunshots

lagao lagao

firing has started. firing has started

karo karo

barabar se


Omar. catch catch

firing has started in our room.. in our room.
firing has started in our room

1. asslam walekum

2. haanjee

1. I've been shot

2. ya allah

where? where?

1. in the arm

may allah protect you. their people are also getting injured. they're being taken to hospital

we've killed a commando


(bad audio)
allah haafiz

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 30 Nov 2009 06:22

The Swiss have voted against the construction of Minarets in a referendum. But..

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 936802.ece

Check out the comments coming mostly out of Europe/ West..must read.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Nov 2009 06:45

A_Gupta wrote: Judging even just by the tempers on BRF, India is not yet there.

-Arun

Guptaji I would not voice such thoughts unless I felt tempers on BRF do not reflect tempers in India. We need to break out of the 1940s mentality strangle hold and that cannot occur unless there is a change on the ground. That change shows up in India - I am not saying its a revolution yet, but despite the BRF tempers the actual issues that are sought to be corrected in India are more community uniting than dividing. When BRF chooses to ignore 90% of the issues on the ground in favor of highlighting a religion based issue - we are beginning to live in cloud cuckoo land.
Most often, the real issues affecting Indians are sarcastically dismissed on BRF as unimportant. By the same act BRF is making itself irrelevant to Indians. That is why the "ahead of curve" business starts getting laughable rather than a mater of pride.

Sorry OT.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Nov 2009 06:49

jamwal wrote:
Hope it helps:

Many thanks. I have saved this to correlate with the audio. You have picked up bits (esp Punjabi) that i was unable to pick up.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 30 Nov 2009 06:56

Ok for those wondering where control of nukes is, read this article. You'll know what the power struggle between the Gilani/ PA/ ISI section vs Zardari/ Haqqani thing is about. Nuke control. Gilani now has got hold of control from Z. Till it was with Z, the West was happy, now i think, it's watching this struggle closely.

When the ordinance was promulgated, Musharraf was president as well as chief of army staff, so the military had a strong representation in the authority. Now, Zardari is believed to be too close to Washington, as is retired Lieutenant General Khalid Kidwai, the director general of the Strategic and Planning Division. The military wants the ordinance amended so that no foreign interests can interfere with the authority.

An amended ordinance to this effect, that is, consolidating the military's role in protecting the nuclear weapons, is likely to be presented to parliament next week.

In every facet now, the military is positioning itself for a stronger and more assertive role.

Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He can be reached at [email protected]

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KK25Df02.html

arun · Post by **arun** » 30 Nov 2009 09:11

X Posted.

The Guardian:

Gordon Brown questions Pakistan's record on fighting terrorism

Bloomberg:

Pakistan Rejects Brown’s Call to Do More to ‘Break’ Al-Qaeda

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 30 Nov 2009 09:21

I didnt see it posted here, sorry if posted before: From Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02934.html

Obama offers new role for Pakistan

President Obama has offered Pakistan an expanded strategic partnership, including additional military and economic cooperation, while warning with unusual bluntness that its use of insurgent groups to pursue policy goals "cannot continue." The offer, including an effort to help reduce tensions between Pakistan and India, was contained in a two-page letter delivered to President Asif Ali Zardari this month by Obama national security adviser James L. Jones....

"We can't succeed without Pakistan," a senior administration official involved in the White House review said. "You have to differentiate between public statements and reality. There is nobody who is under any illusions about this." ...without "changing the nature of U.S.-Pakistan relations in a new direction, you're not going to win in Afghanistan,"

Obama called for closer collaboration against all extremist groups, and his letter named five: al-Qaeda, the Afghan Taliban, the Haqqani network, Lashkar-e-Taiba, and the Pakistani Taliban organization known as Tehrik-e-Taliban. Using vague diplomatic language, he said that ambiguity in Pakistan's relationship with any of them could no longer be ignored.

I think that a new Pakistani strategy is bearing fruit. Pakistan has always tried to trade one leverage for another -- for example, it tried to put forth the argument that unless conventional weapons were given to Pakistan, they would be forced to build more nukes, thereby putting the subcontinent under peril. Now they are arguing that unless they are armed conventionally, they would be forced to rely on "non state actors" for security.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 30 Nov 2009 09:33

Or is the US thinking two steps ahead, once Pakistan gives up patronage and is seen to be condom redux, the righteous ghazis will launch a global jihad against the munafiq of Pakistan. Whilst Uncle Sam and Dhotiwala chuckle.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Nov 2009 09:55

Anujan wrote: "We can't succeed without Pakistan," a senior administration official involved in the White House review said. "You have to differentiate between public statements and reality. There is nobody who is under any illusions about this." ...without "changing the nature of U.S.-Pakistan relations in a new direction, you're not going to win in Afghanistan,"

This means only one thing for India. More terrorism.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 30 Nov 2009 10:17

shiv wrote: ....That is why the "ahead of curve" business starts getting laughable rather than a mater of pride.

Sorry OT.

Shiv,

What are other places to get views of the temper of India? Not the official pundits, but regular folks.

-Arun

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 30 Nov 2009 11:59

Most often, the real issues affecting Indians are sarcastically dismissed on BRF as unimportant. By the same act BRF is making itself irrelevant to Indians.

Searching for 'real' issues on the strat forum would be a stretch from the word go simply because most Yindians (yup the 2/3rds on a dollah a day+ the next 20%) have zero strategy on their minds. So, discussing strategy, geopolitics and national security can arguably be painted as quite divorced from the concerns and issues of the aam aadmi.

Having said that the T&EC forum actually has tread after thread detailing roti-clothes-housing issues, bijli-sadak-pani issues, economic and governance issues.

That is why the "ahead of curve" business starts getting laughable rather than a mater of pride.

Very true. Especially considering that few if any high brow professional analysts seem to have gotten the scale and speed of the global meltdown right, or the speed and scale of geopol changes coming in its wake. No excuses, BR should have done better, of course.

Sorry OT.

Am sorry too. Ending OT here.

vishal · Post by **vishal** » 30 Nov 2009 16:54

US tells Pakistan to stop using terror as a strategic tool

Extract: Jones did some straight-talking with the top Pakistani leadership, the daily said. "If Pakistan cannot deliver, he warned, the US may be impelled to use any means at its disposal to rout insurgents based along Pakistan's western and southern borders with Afghanistan."

Unkil's grand entrance into Pakiland imminent?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Nov 2009 17:31

vishal wrote:US tells Pakistan to stop using terror as a strategic tool

Extract: Jones did some straight-talking with the top Pakistani leadership, the daily said. "If Pakistan cannot deliver, he warned, the US may be impelled to use any means at its disposal to rout insurgents based along Pakistan's western and southern borders with Afghanistan."

But, I don't like the carrot he dangled ". . . to try to "reduce tensions" between India and Pakistan. . .".

In my Tamil language, there is a proverb that roughly translates thus: A pilgrim who simply takes for free a coconut from the shop to offer to Lord Ganesh on the way.

Unless of course, if it is a grand opera that both the US and India are coordinating. Does India have enough trust in the US to do that ?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 30 Nov 2009 17:46

Pakistan more critical than Afghanistan to U.S. security strategy

Another article by Micheal Hughes in the Examiner. I think Sridhar ji might be right. Something has been worked out between US-India regarding how to go about Pakistan. Excerpt from the article:

Which is a strategy I pretty much outlined in the article I posted yesterday, Afghanistan stabilization may depend on Indo-Pakistani reconciliation, although my suggestions were in the context of a U.S.-India backdoor agreement wherein in exchange for India implicitly consenting to Obama's Pakistan plan, India and the U.S. would secure a strategic relationship on an even grander scale when the dust cleared and U.S. objectives had been achieved.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 30 Nov 2009 18:34

^^^ Hmmm contours of

India should ask for TSP's head on a platter in return for a grand alliance with unkil in which unkil need feel no leadership challenges imminent or down the line, unlike with PRC

might actually be happening. Or what?

/I know, long shot but just wondering onlee...

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 30 Nov 2009 20:20

Nothing nothing nothing.

Despite our fondest hopes the only certainty is that this is a GOI with a track record of selling Indian interests very, very cheap. With a further discount thrown in when the customer is Amirkhan.

Present and future generations of Indian citizens will pay a heavy price for what is being discussed behind tightly drawn curtains today. I'm sure MMS won't lose any sleep at the thought, however; his uniquely secular insomnia only acts up when poor downtrodden jihadis are detained in foreign countries.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 30 Nov 2009 20:29

Unless of course, if it is a grand opera that both the US and India are coordinating. Does India have enough trust in the US to do that ?
vishal wrote:US tells Pakistan to stop using terror as a strategic tool

Extract: Jones did some straight-talking with the top Pakistani leadership, the daily said. "If Pakistan cannot deliver, he warned, the US may be impelled to use any means at its disposal to rout insurgents based along Pakistan's western and southern borders with Afghanistan."
But, I don't like the carrot he dangled ". . . to try to "reduce tensions" between India and Pakistan. . .".

In my Tamil language, there is a proverb that roughly translates thus: A pilgrim who simply takes for free a coconut from the shop to offer to Lord Ganesh on the way.

Unless of course, if it is a grand opera that both the US and India are coordinating. Does India have enough trust in the US to do that ?

Remember what Kissinger said on the quid pro quo for the N-deal on strategic front? When people were hinting this as a balance against China, he was the first one publically said that it is against islamic terrorism. Ofcourse Pak is a extension of China. So both are same.

So trust comes from operationalizing the N-deal and something else, i believe.

PS : when ABV offered co-operation to US in war against terror, Pak came around and started co-operating, so this could be such an exercise.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 30 Nov 2009 21:38

Hari Seldon wrote:^^^ Hmmm contours of
India should ask for TSP's head on a platter in return for a grand alliance with unkil in which unkil need feel no leadership challenges imminent or down the line, unlike with PRC
might actually be happening. Or what?

/I know, long shot but just wondering onlee...

Problem is that Unkil in Pakistan will never leave the country. Does India want Unkil sitting in the neighbourhood?I think not

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 30 Nov 2009 23:03

SSridhar

I also agree that this is a "Kadai thengai..." situation...

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 30 Nov 2009 23:35

by Jamwal

1. (In punjabi)you had a guy with you in taxi. Did you kill him?
2. yes. yes. we finished him
1. how?
2. zibah kiya thaa (death by beheading)

It is not Taxi, it is a boat. He says in heavy Lahori Accent (it is Lahore-Kasur accent).

The conversation starts like this

"eenj kamm hove ke rahindi duniya tak oothe khauf jihda na ooh zaari rave"
Your work should be such that the people should be afraid till armaegeddon (Qayamat or Rahindi Duniya)

"Jehda ooh banda si tuhade naal., kasthi wich ooh mar ditta si"
one says "haain" or "come again" and says "haanji" i.e. yes

and then he repeat the same sentence. and this time he says

"Jehda ooh banda si tuhade naal, kashti wich oooh mar ditta si launch wich?"

i.e. the man that was with you in a boat did you killed him in the boat?

and he replies "haanji, haanji.. oohno khatam kar ditta si"

Yes Yes we finished him.

the caller says "Kahde naal maraya je"

i.e. With what weapon did you killed him?

replies "oohno zibah kitta si"
i.e. "We slit his throat (zibah = islamic way of cutting the jugular vein)

Then the caller starts preparing them for more attacks.

The punjabi starts again "le phir aapna islam aur kuffar da maharat... Assi allah de ooh banda hain jihnu allah ne apne deen waste chunya hai"

i.e. We are those people who are leading the war between islam and kuffa.. Allah picked us to lead this battle.

The whole conversation is like master and slave.

more later

bart · Post by **bart** » 30 Nov 2009 23:37

Jarita wrote: Problem is that Unkil in Pakistan will never leave the country. Does India want Unkil sitting in the neighbourhood?I think not

In an ideal situation, no.

But compare it with the situation today where Unkil is already there in every conceivable way, plus he is propping up a terrorist regime with destruction of India as its sole objective. An neutered Pakistan, along with a continuing Unkil presence will be better anyday.