Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

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Gagan
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by Gagan »

Abhijit wrote:The cognitive dissonance of pakis in all strata is mind-boggling.
It would appear that it is this cognitive dissonance that keeps them sane in these difficult times. For that matter, times have been difficult ever since their nation came into being.
Their one shining star, their punjabi army, loses in battles against the kafir India. They keep floundering, trying to find excuses to cover that up. A whole society has built up a screen in front of its eyes so that they don't have to see the pakistaniyat it all its gory detail

Problem is, that the pakistaniyat they were trying to not see, has hit the fan and is falling all over them.
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If things keep on boiling at this rate, there will be a sudden breakdown of what little order that prevails.

If the TTP keeps this thing going for a while, the Pakjabis are going to head into an ethinic cleansing of the Pashtoons. An example of which we have already seen is Swat, where the Pak Fauj shelled those tribes which were not cooperating with the Pak fauj, when whole tribe members were punished if one or two members of that tribe was involved in attacking the Pak fauj. If the TTP gets killed, there will come a point when the other groups, with suitable encouragement, will join in with the TTP to avenge Pashtoon honor.

Pakistan is headed for a civil war, with the Pak fauj and the Punjabi terror boys on one side and the Pashtoons on the other.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by shiv »

Interesting statement here
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ttack.html
"These are just the last acts of this organisation), desperate acts," said Maj Gen Abbas. "I think we'll have to absorb a few more of these attacks."
The statement is an oxymoron. If these are the "last acts" then why should they have to absorb more?

Still I think that is a very interesting statement - on the lines of Home Minister Patil's "These things happen". But even Patil did not say "absorb more" without himself absorbing blows fatal to his career.

I believe the Paki army has no answer to this. The same mango Pakistani who serves as fauji is now serving as jihadi and the whisky swilling afsar class may not be able to get things under control.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by Jarita »

At the risk of sounding naive - I do not venture to this thread often (Zaid Hamid videos have been a great discovery)
Why are the Taliban attacking the army when it was the army that paloed them?
The Pakistan army is hand in glove. Or is it that they are taking out factions that do not align with their philosophy

I would think the pashtoons would be attacking the army because they want their own state.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by Gagan »

Ordinarily these three attacks in the proximity of GHQ Pindi and specifically this one, should make the Pakjabi fauji establishment pause and rethink their entire sponsoring terrorism in neighbouring countries gameplan.

How ever being pakjabis and hence given to martial traditions, they will refuse to see the light, and continue to believe - till the very end, their end - that these are the last gasps of the monsters they created. The last gasps they hear and see, but don't understand are their own.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by SwamyG »

harbans wrote:Zaid Hamid has a personal mission and fad and is very much in synch with the PA and the ISI. Ghazwa e Hind. His video with Bharat Verma, where he actually 'mauled' a shocked Verma..on the Panipat thing.
So what was the reference about Panipat there? Was he referring to one of the Panipat battles? Which one?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by Gagan »

Jahil Hamid was displaying the valor of the martial pak army, saying that the pak army will fight the Indian army in Panipat - ie deep inside india and not on the borders, before they take over delhi.

This is in that bharat verma video, and also in one or two videos that he's involved with.

This fool hamid, picks up a new and outrageous idea, and uses it in a few shows and then moves on to yet another outrageous piece of rubbish, never bothering that mostly his ramblings are contradictory.

As they say, this too shall pass. So many pro establishment anchors and thinkers have been cast away, this madman shall be too. The proof is Shrileen Mazari - who tried to get verrrry close to mushy, and gets thrown away like an old shoe, when he's gone. (I love that expression - old used shoe, old used hag)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by Jarita »

This whole episode makes one realize that wheels of karma are slow but sure
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by shiv »

Jarita wrote:At the risk of sounding naive - I do not venture to this thread often (Zaid Hamid videos have been a great discovery)
Why are the Taliban attacking the army when it was the army that paloed them?
The Pakistan army is hand in glove. Or is it that they are taking out factions that do not align with their philosophy

I would think the pashtoons would be attacking the army because they want their own state.
Let me state my views on this. I believe it is a mistake to classify the militant activities of groups in Pakistan under the heading "Taliban" or "Al Qaeda".There are multiple groups with multiple enemies now. The only "single enemy" that united all these groups was India. Every group was supported by the Paki army as long as they did not attack America but attacked India. After 9-11 the Pakistani army tried to do the same lafda with the jihadis that they were doing with the Americans - i.e running with the hares and hunting with the hounds. Now both hares and hounds are out to get them. And the US hounds are kinder and more generous than the jihadi hares.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by sum »

Five serving officers, including a major general, a brigadier, two lieutenant colonels and a major, died in the assault by suicide bombers and gunmen on a mosque near the army's headquarters in Rawalpindi.
A retired major and three serving ordinary soldiers were also among the dead as well as 17 children, including 11 sons of officers.
So many serving officers in the mosque on a working day? ( IIRC, Pak also follows the Sat/Sunday weekend policy)
Claiming responsibility for Friday’s attack, the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) said the Parade Lane mosque was similar to Masjid-e-Zarrar built in Madina by the munafiqeen, and was “demolished on the orders of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)”.
Talking to BBC, TTP chief Waliur Rehman Mehsud said his men attacked senior army officers. “Our militants attacked the military officers (our primary target) and we will continue to attack the army,” he said, adding that the civilians killed in the attack were relatives of army personnel and their deaths “did not matter”.
Wow...the purelanders getting bested at their game by the purer...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by pgbhat »

Rawalpindi attack
It is not just that there has been a terrible loss of life as a result, but also the fact that the militants execute such operations as much for the psychological impact as the physical toll.
but pious are doing what they are supposed to do get rid of munafiqs.
But the outside world must acknowledge the limitations of a sub-optimal state fighting a hydra-headed enemy.

Putting pressure on Pakistan to fight X group of militants when it is already struggling to defeat Y can risk losing the war against both X and Y.

Third, the US needs to think very carefully about the impending expansion of its drone operations inside Pakistan, as reported in The New York Times yesterday.
Frustration and unhappiness in both the American and Pakistani camps should not overshadow a basic reality: the two sides need one another if they are to defeat the militants.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by arun »

Jarita wrote:Taliban takes credit

http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-ma ... rawalp.php

Claiming responsibility for Friday’s attack, the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) said the Parade Lane mosque was similar to Masjid-e-Zarrar built in Madina by the munafiqeen, and was “demolished on the orders of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)”.
Talking to BBC, TTP chief Waliur Rehman Mehsud said his men attacked senior army officers. “Our militants attacked the military officers (our primary target) and we will continue to attack the army,” he said, adding that the civilians killed in the attack were relatives of army personnel and their deaths “did not matter”.

Read more: http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-ma ... z0Ym3x8gY9
I was always a bit perplexed as to how Muslims seem to have no inhibitions in destroying one of their own places worship. Seems I should not have been perplexed as the precedent of destroying ones own place of worship was established by none other than Islam’s prophet, Mohammad.

Perverse as it may sound, with such a precedent in place, the citizens of the world’s first ideological Muslim State no doubt feel a strong religious incentive to destroy more of their own places of worship. This will thus not be the last Mosque destruction by Muslims we will see.

For archival purposes the almost identical story from The Daily Times which also states that the perpetrators justification for the bombing of the Mosque was derived from an act of Islam’s prophet, Mohammad:

‘Parade Lane mosque akin to Masjid-e-Zarrar’
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by arun »

B Raman's take on the Rawalpindi Mosque attack.

Note his detailing of the destruction of a Muslim place of worship by Islam's prophet, Mohammad. This destruction forms the justification for the Rawalpindi Mosque attack:

Wanton Brutality of Pindi Mosque Attack
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by Hari Seldon »

Again I detect the same fond jingo hope that TSP will somehow collapse as a result of this attack or that as usual not knowing that TSP's true strength - the glue that holds its buttox together - is made of sterner stuff.

Somehow I get the feeling like the nukkad jinxes during kirket matches, jingo wishes for TSP demise jinx that overdue outcome. As for the mosque bumbing, TSPA will survive it onlee. :(( :((
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by Hari Seldon »

From B Raman's blog:
“This attack bears the signatures of the terror strike on the Sri Lankan cricket team in Lahore as here also these terrorists were carrying back-packs full of arms and ammunition and targeting innocent victims while standing openly in the grounds and shouting commands and orders to each other. Later, when challenged, they engaged the law-enforcement agencies, both the Army and the police, in crossfire and some even got holed up in hideouts in houses close to the mosque. We are trying to locate them and kill or arrest them,” the sources in the Rawalpindi Police and intelligence agencies told The News on condition of anonymity.”
Seems the TTP is targetting the TSPA very methodically and diligently indeed. The puppeteers pulling the strings of the perps that committed wanton murder at Kaluchak now find the same tactics returning to haunt them. TSPA men's families are soft targets whose 'deaths don't matter' according tot he hon. spokesman of the TTP. How quaint indeed. Expect the response from sections of the TSPA to be wantonly brutal as well. They will lash out at similar soft targets inflicting collective misery on TTP allied tribes in general, IMHO.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by shravan »

6 injured in Peshawar blast

PESHAWAR: At least six people were injured Saturday when a blast rocked an office building and a neighboring restaurant at University Road area, reported ARY NEWS.

The blast hit the building houses offices of lawyers and other professionals. It was not yet cleared what was the cause of the blast, however, the eyewitnesses say it was a car bomb blast as a suspected vehicle was parked outside the building.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by Y I Patel »

Kalu Chak is what I remembered as well.

Devil does protect his own though. They missed Lt. Gen Mohammed Yusuf. We all remember him, don't we? VCAS during the coup and 9/11.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

sum wrote: So many serving officers in the mosque on a working day? ( IIRC, Pak also follows the Sat/Sunday weekend policy)
True about weekends, but the Islamic Republic allows extra times for the Zhuhr (Noon) and Asr (Afternoon) prayers for the Faithful. No one can find fault with that, especially kufr.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by AnantD »

Something quite stark stood out to me on this whole parade lane affair. Apparently Paki afsars wimmens were also attacked and a, they all survived w/o injury or b. their injury and death dosen't matter to the TFTA to be even be counted or reported.

I think it is b. Notice that only sons killed were reported. :!:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by Hari Seldon »

^^^Anant, aren't only males allowed inside mosques? Not sure how wimmins would find entry when even goats don't often get that privilege.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by Patni »

Police: Blast near KFC restaurant in NW Pakistan

By MUNIR AHMAD (AP) – 17 minutes ago

ISLAMABAD — Police say a bomb has exploded near a KFC fast-food restaurant in Pakistan's northwestern city of Peshawar.

There was no immediate word on casualties in the blast Saturday.

Police official Haroon Khan says several vehicles were damaged and the windows of nearby stores were shattered in the explosion.

The KFC restaurant is well known in the city and has security guards stationed outside.

It is the latest in a string of attacks to rock the country as the army battles the Taliban in the northwest. An attack Friday on a mosque frequented by army personnel killed 37 people in Rawalpindi city.
The restaurant mentioned in Shravans post on today's IED mubarak is Taliban favorite KFC outlet! I really wonder about guys who would take their family to paki KFC! unless you want to experience IED mubarak firsthand! I bet the paki life insurance company would charge extra risk premium if you are a regular at KFC in pakistan!!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by Hari Seldon »

If the TTP is indeed serious about inflicting pain on TSPA, then an easy target is the fauji foundation and allied ekhanomic activities - from running bakeries and dairy farms to import-export houses - that subsidize crore commander lifestyles and support the aam TSPA beard's pocket money on the side. Just suggesting ideas only, after all samajhdaar ke liye ishaara hi kafi hai.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

Y I Patel wrote:Devil does protect his own though. They missed Lt. Gen Mohammed Yusuf. We all remember him, don't we? VCAS during the coup and 9/11.
He then fell foul of Gen. Musharraf for siding with the US and leaving the Taliban and the 'boys' in the lurch. The 'boys' have now grown up into men with long and unkempt beards and no longer distinguish between those who supported them and those who didn't.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by hulaku »

Two die in Peshawar plaza blast
PESHAWAR: At least two people were killed and 14 others injured in a blast near a restaurant on University Road in Peshawar’s area of Tehkal, Geo News quoted police sources as saying Saturday.

Talking to Geo News, District Coordination Officer Peshawar Sahibzada Muhammad Anis confirmed at least two people were killed in the blast and that blast was a car bomb blast.

The deceased include a woman.
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/updates.asp?id=92818
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by sivabala »

On the Rawalpindi Mosque attack.
What if the attack is a reply sent by the Iranian Revolutionary Gaurds? this link was not considered by any news agencies.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by AnantD »

^^^Anant, aren't only males allowed inside mosques? Not sure how wimmins would find entry when even goats don't often get that privilege.
Hari:

Women are allowed in mosques but stand in their own room /separate section. In the newspaper reports, the TTP freedom fighters attacked the womens section too. Just no word of any injury/death. Strange and weird!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

sivabala wrote:
On the Rawalpindi Mosque attack.
What if the attack is a reply sent by the Iranian Revolutionary Gaurds? this link was not considered by any news agencies.
Sivabala, I may be wrong here; but, from some of the names of the dead, it appears to be a Shia mosque (or imambargah). If that is so, the Taliban have indeed chosen their target very carefully. They would like to sharpen attacks on the Shia officers within the PA to cause a split.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by Philip »

Gentlemen,though this take overlaps the Af-Pak scenario,the fundamental epicentre of our problems in the region lies with Pak,therefore this piece.

In recent days there have been a few major developments which will have a profound effect in the immediate and coming future,the first being Obama's Af-Pak policy,wherein he has said that the US "will withdraw" from Afghanistan.The editor of the NIEx paper has said today that champagne will be flowing in the ISI HQ for many reasons,not least that being 18 months hence,when the US withdraws,the ISI can simply retake Kabul through their offspring,the Taliban.He advocates that India should prepare for using its "battle trained" forces in Afghanistan,something that I feel would be a massive disaster,as from the invasion of Alexander he Great,the British thrice,the Russians,the Porkis during the first taliban govt.,and now the Americans and their allies,none has ben able to rule the land and have retreated after years of very costly experience.We must therefore adopt another more intelligent strategy to deal with the events which will take place in 2012!

The second point is that the country,barring those in the know,are either sleeping or just watching indifferently about the "demographic shift" taking place on India's western coastline.This is the steady change taking place in the Muslim community where the skull cap and traditional dress of our neighbour is fast becoming more prevalent,rather than the slightly modified ethnic dress of the various states .A friend in the forces told me that in his state,Rajasthan too,the Muslim community ealier used to wear dress which was a slightly modified version of local tradition,but now is rapidly becoming that which demonstrates the hard-line Wahabi usurping of the more liberal minded Muslim community in India.Friends,I am reliably told from those that this is not an accident or "evolution" in that faith,it is a concentrated,relentless policy of the ISI which is being carried out and the ISi supported to the hilt by the Saudi Wahabis (in an earlier editorial , the NIExp. editor asked why India should not attack the Saudis who are the patrons of the ISI who were behind the policy of terror against India?).The aim therefor of the ISI is to engineer massive internal chaos in India though repeated acts of terror,sending Indo-pak relations into a fatal tailspin,allowing Pak to retake Afghanistan through its proxy the Taliban and hthrough the chaos created internally in India weaken the country enough for China to achieve its regional goals without firing a shot preferably.

Now the gameplan of the ISI is also at the behest of the Chinese! The last thing that China wants is for an Indo-Pak "entente coridiale".Pak will then be less willing to be China's catspaw against India.The Chinese policy of encircling India is taking shape in Burma,where we are losing out to the Chinese on the energy front and the establishment of Chinese intel bases and future logistic bases for the PLAN there,in various nations and island states in the IOR ,at Gwadar,the improvement of the Karakorum Highway,so that Chinese troops can move rapidly into the region "to save Pak".Now saving Pak has become a key priority of the PR%C.Having invested so much in their vassal state,which is virtually a Chinese proxy to keep India diverted from China's take over of Asia.Informed sources say that the recent Chinese aggro on our northern borders was aaprt from China's long term ambitions at defeating India yet again in another military battle,was in the main to keep India off balance in case it wanted to settle scores with Pak taking advantage of Pak's current crisis,which thanks to intense US pressure had to fight the rogue anti-Pak extremist forces ripping its country apart.India have apparently given the US a firm assuarance that we will not attack Pak or cause trouble for it on its eastern front,but the worthy uniformed tribe in Pak,used to permanent double-crossing and backstabbing decided that some insurance was needed and took out a "Chinaman's policy".

Unfortunately,the current dispensation in India invested in too much US "paper" and have found that the worth of US assuarances to India,that pak would behave,has become as the Mahatma once said of British promises,"a post-dated cheque on a failing bank".We abandoned our closest and truest friends the Russians and the key Central Asian republics of the former Soviet Union and Iran too,in formulating a strategy of neutralising any attempt by Pak to take over Afghanistan agaain through its proxy the Taliban.Therefore,we have to now plan for the coming US withdrawal in around 2012,which will see the resurgence of the Paki led Taliban into Afghanistan.What are our options?

Wlll for a start,let's look at Pak.It has options too.It can "behave" follow US orders and clean up its act,which will be a very costly and bloody affair.But at the end of it,it will have reduced Islamic extremism in the land a great deal and can begin to concentrate upon an economic recovery,also through investing in the SAARC group,forming a regional economic equivalent to the EU,if not a security appratus too.That is the most sensible route for Pak to travel upon,but will it?
As long as the ISI calls the shots in the military and the military in the country, it will never happen.In a conversation with a well-informed Paki in the know some time back,he looked at me as if I was from Mars when I asked him if a day would come when the Paki and Indian armed forces could work together in securing each others security.The anti-Indian hatred just runs too deep in the blood of the Paki military and they will take their country to the brink of collapse if only to" cut off their nose to spite their face",peace with India.

What are India's options then? There is little point in supporting the Pax Americana,which is also collapsing in the region and Asia.The US has its own interests first and always and has abandoned old friends and allies on innumerable occassions in the past,and will do so to India which is not even an ally! It is inconceivable that the US continues to swamp Pak with lethal arms which can be used against India.Time and time again Pak keeps fooling the Yanquis and their love for their rent-boy runs as deep as the Paki military's hatred for India.Unless the US completely stops all arms sales to Pak,there is little use in any Indo-US military exercises where the US is trying to integrate India into its global gameplan to do its dirty work where it cannot,and beggar us in the process of fighting its wars and enriching the pockets of US arms manufacturers. We have to change tack and fast.Let us hope that the Indo-Russian summit will provide us with new options and the establishment of a new strategy of dealing with the Sino-Pak-Saudi axis of evil.We can debate and enlarge upon the strategy and tactics to be adopted so that the diabolic plans of our mortal enemies may be totally defeated.
ISI’s feeling pretty bubbly
Aditya SinhaFirst Published : 05 Dec 2009

Champagne popped open this week as Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) celebrated US President Barack Obama’s announcement that American troops would start withdrawing from Afghanistan in July 2011. Despite the extra 30,000 soldiers and the Central Intelligence Agency’s (CIA) expansion of its unmanned drone operations inside Pakistan’s tribal areas, Islamabad was jubilant. The ISI’s strategy of waiting for the Americans to leave was paying off. Soon, Islamabad would recapture Kabul after eight years of domination by New Delhi. Absurd as it may sound, that’s the way the Pakistan military sees it: not in terms of the Frankenstein called Islamist terrorism, not in terms of jihadis taking over the border areas of Pakistan and launching suicide attacks into the Punjabi heartland, but simply in terms of a competition with India to dominate Afghanistan. The Americans have obliged them. All the Pakistan army need do now is sit tight 18 more months.

The ISI strategy is not rocket science. The British gave up on Afghanistan thrice in the 19th century (as revenge, they drew the Durand Line through the Pushtun tribal areas to serve as Afghanistan’s artificial border with Pakistan); The USSR gave up in 1989 and disintegrated soon after. The ISI thinks it’s now America’s turn.

The Pakistanis have got this far by sheer stubbornness and wile. Since 9/11, when the US began looking for Osama bin Laden and gang in and around the Durand Line, the Pakistanis have controlled events either by saying that direct American intervention would only alienate the local population and pose a threat to the army’s hold on power (a long Cold War association convinced the Pentagon that the Pakistan army are a bunch of great guys who can be trusted with running the country); or by handing over, one by one, a “number three” al-Qaeda gentleman to calm the Americans (Pakistan has caught scores of “number three” al-Qaeda terrorists over the past eight years); or by insisting there is a big difference between the Afghan Taliban and the Pakistani Taliban. Pakistan only wants to target the latter. To say that there are different Taliban is as dubious as saying there is a moderate Taliban (a ploy Pakistan has tried before). It simply does not exist.

Clearly, the ISI runs circles around the CIA. The CIA knows it, but can do little except gnash its teeth, because it has no spies among the jihadists. The ISI doesn’t need spies; it created the Taliban.

The Americans ought to demand that the ISI demonstrate sincerity by handing over Mullah Omar, the Taliban chief. The one-eyed Mullah and his cohorts are said to have converted one of Quetta’s suburbs into a kind of mini-Taliban city; it is a place which neither Pakistani police nor journalists dare visit. Houses, shops and mosques have all been purchased by the Taliban (using ISI money, which is basically US military aid; yes, ironic). The ISI is in constant touch with the Taliban hierarchy. And even with expanded CIA drone operations, it will be difficult to get Mullah Omar; the drones have been hitting targets in the countryside and mountains, not in the cities, and even that has swelled anti-American sentiment, according to every Pakistani leader, civilian or military. Imagine what a strike in a crowded urban area would do.

It would not be surprising if the ISI gave Osama up to the Americans in this 18-month interim, to encourage the American plan for a 2011 withdrawal. But it will not give Mullah Omar up, because there can be no regime more pro-Pakistan than the one Mullah Omar may head in Kabul. The Pakistan army wants nothing more than his return. The army wants India ejected from Afghanistan, and not just because it suspects India of supporting insurgents in Balochistan (which credits too much to Indian intelligence, and anyway President Asif Ali Zardari is working out a political and economic package for the province); but also because it has been assisting President Hamid Karzai with high-profile projects. India has been involved in educating Afghans, something the population enthusiastically responded to after the Taliban were deposed. The Hazaras have apparently taken advantage of new educational opportunities. India has also been building roads, linking up Central Asia to Iran via Heart, in an effort to someday revive the traditional Silk Route for trade in energy.

The Americans aim to build capacity for the Afghan army and police; the US wants to hand over Afghanistan’s security to them and withdraw its troops in time for the next presidential election (but even that is too late for some of Obama’s fellow Democrats). Theirs is a pipedream. The police are corrupt, parochial and ineffectual (perhaps because the CIA since 9/11 allowed the Afghan warlords to flourish instead of building institutions). The army is only slightly better. More alarmingly, it is believed that both the Afghan police and army have been deeply penetrated by Taliban agents. Expect more of this in the next 18 months, as the Americans go on a recruiting and training spree so that they can hurry out of Afghanistan.

The best way to keep the Taliban out, even after 2011, is to replace American troops with other professionals. The Europeans don’t want to deploy, so that leaves India; but Pakistan will hear nothing of it. Deploying Indian troops defeats the purpose of the Pakistan army’s whole Afghanistan strategy; everyone knows there is no peace-keeping in Afghanistan, only battles against the Taliban (ask the British who deployed in opium-rich Helmand province). The US, mindful of Pakistan’s protest, does not push the matter.

Yet, if over the next 18 months the CIA gets more exasperated with the ISI for not helping nab Mullah Omar or Osama, or for not being able to control the terrorism inside Pakistan, then attitudes will be ripe for change. Things will never get better in Pakistan. Its 176 million population will increase to 309 million by 2050, the UN says. Without a social sector — education, healthcare, jobs, or hope — even a miniscule fraction of that can make for a lot of anti-America jihadis.

Over the next 18 months, India needs to convince the US that the Pakistanis are not up to the job of controlling terrorism. India needs to convince the US that there can be no other solution to reviving Afghanistan (and throwing a political life-line to the US administration) than for allowing India to deploy its counter-insurgency hardened soldiers to Afghanistan. India needs to convince the US that when Pakistan controlled Afghanistan then 9/11 happened; on the other hand, India’s influence on Afghanistan brought calm and peace. And if there is another terrorist strike against India, then the US will have no choice but to deploy Indian troops. This ought to be India’s plan. Then, come 2012, maybe we’ll be popping open the champagne.

[email protected]

About The Author;

Aditya Sinha is the Editor-in-Chief of ‘The New Indian Express’ and is based in Chennai
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/stor ... wcg==&SEO=
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by shiv »

pgbhat wrote:Rawalpindi attackFrustration and unhappiness in both the American and Pakistani camps should not overshadow a basic reality: the two sides need one another if they are to defeat the militants.
[/quote]

Bwahahahahahahaha! :mrgreen: This is the usual Paki line "India must cooperate with Pakistan in fighting terror! We are so bious and so sincere.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by shiv »

AnantD wrote:Something quite stark stood out to me on this whole parade lane affair. Apparently Paki afsars wimmens were also attacked and a, they all survived w/o injury or b. their injury and death dosen't matter to the TFTA to be even be counted or reported.

I think it is b. Notice that only sons killed were reported. :!:
It was a mosquee boss. No wimmens
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

Pakistan is a nuclear power and so has 'enormous responsibilities': America
Acknowledging Pakistan as a "nuclear state", the Obama administration today said that the country has "enormous responsibilities" within the community of nations that have such weapons.

"As a nuclear state, Pakistan has enormous responsibilities within the community of nations that have nuclear weapons," National Security Adviser, General (retd) James Jones said while briefing foreign correspondents here.

Responding to a question, Jones said Pakistan is well aware of it (responsibilities of a nuclear state) and the US has been holding regular consultations on the issue with Islamabad.

"They are well aware of that. And we have regular consultations on those issues."
Pakistan has never exhibited its maturity either before or after becoming a nuclear weapon state. It is simply the reason why such a state should not possess nuclear weapons. It never had capable leaders and was never stable. There was a semblance of stability only whenever the PA was in saddle.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by NikhilB »

Excellent. Even I was struggling to find a concrete and rational reason for PA getting attacked by TTP. Video 1 and 2 gives sufficient context for it. So there is jihad against west. But as PA is aligned to west, so PA is Kufr, and hence priority number 1. They're saying - we can deal with americans and west later, let us first deal with kufr PA first. And hence so many attacks on PA. No doubt some more pious elements of PA will also get / are getting involved in this holy war aginst PA.

However, I am afraid there is one inherent risk for India too. India has always been Kufr state, and unfinished agenda for these mujahideens. Hence the following finding from US few days back does make sense:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 298869.cms

If there are any sane strategic thinkers in TTP/Al Qaida leadership then attacking India will be the next high priority task for them. It will serve lots of objectives : PA will be diverted to India, thus TTP/Al Qaida getting some breathing time to oraganise, the war will be between two Kufr states - Long time old Kufr state of India & recently turned less Kufr state of PA, NATO atention will get diverted, etc.

How do we eliminate this risk ? Just by increasing surveillance and intelligence will not elimiate the risk completely. So if next attack happens in India, going to war with TSP will not be best choice for us - as prooved recently (luckily) after 26/11.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by ashish raval »

@Philip, good analysis. I am sure your observation about IM's are a matter of concern. However, in Gujarat I have not observed a huge change. Govt. of Guj knows about the funding to the mosque's from M-E wahabi's & to counter this GoG promote's Dawoodi Bohra's in the state who are liberal, intelligent, well integrated and peaceful by nature. They are given very good media coverage, visit by CM in their events, organising talks and reporting community concerns and their work getting cleared up very fast. This all in the name of promoting peaceful Islam to counter Wahabi culture. In other words, Bohra's are made representative's of muslims who take the concerns higher up in beaurocracy and thereby increasing their visibility. I am sure other state's do have such strategies to promote more peaceful sects of Islam such as Ahmediyya's and Bohra's.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by Raju »

NikhilB wrote:Hence the following finding from US few days back does make sense:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 298869.cms
Al-Qaeda is that section of jihadi or ISI puppets who are supportive of CIA or are agreeable to do their work.

seperating empty rhetoric/talk from action, whatever Al-Qaeda does ultimately strengthens arms of western oligarchs.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by svinayak »

ashish raval wrote:@Philip, good analysis. I am sure your observation about IM's are a matter of concern. However, in Gujarat I have not observed a huge change. Govt. of Guj knows about the funding to the mosque's from M-E wahabi's & to counter this GoG promote's Dawoodi Bohra's in the state who are liberal, intelligent, well integrated and peaceful by nature. They are given very good media coverage, visit by CM in their events, organising talks and reporting community concerns and their work getting cleared up very fast. This all in the name of promoting peaceful Islam to counter Wahabi culture. In other words, Bohra's are made representative's of muslims who take the concerns higher up in beaurocracy and thereby increasing their visibility. I am sure other state's do have such strategies to promote more peaceful sects of Islam such as Ahmediyya's and Bohra's.
Indian state and Indian society is not ready for the Wahabi onslaught. It needs a special counter movement and strategy. But it can be taken care of. But the source has to be targetted - KSA
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by Singha »

At least three people are reported to have been killed in an explosion in the Pakistani city of Peshawar.

Officials initially said the blast, near a KFC restaurant, was caused by a bomb, but later reports suggested it was an accidental explosion.

Local TV showed black smoke rising from a building and burning cars.

The explosion came a day after 35 people were killed in a militant attack on a mosque near the Pakistani army's headquarters in Rawalpindi.

Investigators quoted by the Associated Press said they found no trace of explosives at the scene of the Peshawar blast.

Several people were seen clinging to windows in one building that was on fire, shouting for help.

Police Chief Liaquat Ali Khan told AP it was an accidental explosion that went off in a shop with paint stored inside, although the exact cause remains unclear.

Peshawar has been a frequent target for militant attacks, and initial reports suggested it may have been another such incident.

Soon after the explosion the region's information minister Mian Iftikhar Hussain, had suggested the explosion was caused by a car bomb, detonated remotely.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by SwamyG »

Thanks Gagan. I did see the video; I do not understand Urdu so I thought I must have missed some thing.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

Washington Post's Report
Witnesses and officials said the Friday attack began when a man in the front row of worshipers suddenly stood and detonated explosives, blowing himself up. Immediately, several other attackers began throwing grenades and shooting from the back of the mosque, where several hundred people were praying. A second attacker blew himself up as well, officials said.
Thus is well planned with insider help. The mosque needs an entry pass and has restricted membership and for members only. The suicide bomber had positioned himself probably very close to the top Generals as he was in the very first row. Others had been stationed in the back to slaughter those fleeing the mayhem, even by holding them by hair and shooting them point blank. Earlier reports spoke of the terrorists using ladders to scale the walls of the mosque. May be that was how the terrorists in the back rows got access to the mosque, but, the guy in the front row certainly had insider help.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by A_Gupta »

So perhaps India should have made a deal with Pakistan effectively ceding Afghanistan to Paki control (actually, good luck to them with that!) in return for peace on Pakistan's eastern front?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Post by Suppiah »

Everyone seems to be assuming that the 18 month deadline is carved in stone. It is not. IMHO it is just a way Obama has found to manage the left side of his party. A withdrawal from Afghan without even a fig-leaf victory would end US post war supremacy once for all and will have HUGE implications in ME, vis-a-vis Russia etc. I think the deadline will slowly slip...

Actually whatever happens in Afghan/Pakistan, all India has to do is to keep its own borders secure, kill anyone that comes across, stop all civlian, sports contacts with TSP, and continue to beef up internal security. Any Paki found in India should be shot without question.

And overtly sow constant confusion and destruction on TSP to the point where they have to spend disproportionate resources fighting various fires.

We are no different from Israel, only bigger. Our entire internal and external security apparatus should work on the notion that we are surrounded by fanatic barbarian animals and terrorists. We should give up all pretense of hoping to reform them or make friends with them.

We can then give a s..t about what happens in Afghan...Pakbarian animals can keep that useless territory.
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