Indian Autos Thread

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9225
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Hari Seldon » 16 Nov 2009 12:19

Who's Winning the Asian Auto Derby

Didn't know there was an Asian auto derby till recently onlee....

India is gaining a lap as its exports leap ahead, thanks to quality and engineering that Chinese carmakers can't match {for now, you mean.}


Delhi - For years, global automakers have fretted about the day when Chinese manufacturers start exporting cars en masse, driving down profits worldwide. But the bigger challenge may come from China's neighbor, India. This year through September, India exported more than 292,000 cars, up 32% from the same period in 2008, while China's car exports fell 57%, to about 221,000.

In contrast to China, where exports come mostly from domestic companies, India's biggest exporters are the global manufacturers themselves. They like the country because it's a fast-growing market with plenty of smart engineers; developing a small car in India costs about $225 million, vs. some $400 million in Europe, estimates researcher CSM Worldwide. While costs in China are on a par with India's, China hasn't penetrated the European countries where India is strongest. The vast majority of Chinese cars sold abroad end up in the developing world. "India's advantage lies in its strong engineering skills and a large supplier base, which has learned to meet the strict quality requirements of European markets," says Ammar Master, an analyst with J.D. Power & Associates (MHP).


Hmmmph. So the wal-mart strategy worked in reverse this time in the autos sector. How quaint.
Hopefully, the talent pool created in precision engineering, design and other such rare skill sets will spur home-grown entrepreneurship in design boutiques and consultancies etc the way IDPL seeded so many pharma labs across the country. Long shot I know, but why not?

That's not to say China won't overtake India in exports someday. Part of India's success this year is due to European cash-for-clunkers programs. China's car market, meanwhile, is about five times as big as India's and has grown 46% this year, spurring carmakers there to focus on the mainland rather than exports. At just 2 million vehicles last year, India's market is too small to warrant all the capacity the country now has, so manufacturers feel they need to export. "If you have a factory in China, you just fill it and sell the cars in China," says Colin Dodge, Nissan's chief for Africa, Middle-East, India, and Europe. "Don't [bother with] exports."

santoshriyer
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 62
Joined: 26 Oct 2009 16:06

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby santoshriyer » 16 Nov 2009 16:43

rahulm wrote:TATA Vista Photos

REVA photos The REVA finish needs to be better.

TATA MANZA The fit and finish is of a high order.


I have worked on the Air conditioning system for the VISTA , MANZA and Nano. Am really proud of it :D

rachel
BRFite
Posts: 143
Joined: 17 Jan 2008 01:27
Location: www.canhindu.com

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby rachel » 17 Nov 2009 07:26

When Tata e-Indica, from its new UK factory, sells thousands of e-Indicas across Europe;

If REVA from its new Syracuse factory cranks out thousands of e-cars and floods USA;

And if Mahindra does something similar with pickups and SUVs in America,

Then finally we can stop hearing all this garbage about 'China, China China'

The China hoax will shatter like .... like fragile china.

I am so damn sick of hearing about this stupid, thieving lying hoax of a nation in all the press, all the time...

bart
BRFite
Posts: 712
Joined: 04 Jan 2008 21:33

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby bart » 17 Nov 2009 11:04

santoshriyer wrote:
rahulm wrote:TATA Vista Photos

REVA photos The REVA finish needs to be better.

TATA MANZA The fit and finish is of a high order.


I have worked on the Air conditioning system for the VISTA , MANZA and Nano. Am really proud of it :D



According to some guys from TBHP who have test driven the Nano, the cooling is shockingly good for a 600 cc engine, it was way beyond their expectations. So you do have much to be proud of.

Sridhar K
BRFite
Posts: 811
Joined: 12 Sep 2002 11:31

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Sridhar K » 17 Nov 2009 11:50

Traveled in a ACE Magic to do parikrama of Govardhan Giri. excellent pulling power (12 people), excellent suspension at full load and very silent. Was very impressed. The roads were narrow and a Tata Safari following us had a tough time catching.

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4842
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Neshant » 21 Nov 2009 00:00

I have worked on the Air conditioning system for the VISTA , MANZA and Nano. Am really proud of it


Congratulations.

kmkraoind
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3908
Joined: 27 Jun 2008 00:24

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby kmkraoind » 26 Nov 2009 00:40


Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 12871
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Suraj » 26 Nov 2009 03:18

More railways than auto, but here's a news item on a new automobile carrying wagon IR is putting into service:
Auto Inc upbeat on rlys' vehicle handling projects
With Indian Railways having developed two automobile wagon rakes (trains), with a holding capacity of almost 550 cars each for transport of vehicles from sites closer to their manufacturing bases to their final destination, auto manufacturers say they look forward to increasingly using this form of transport for their products.

The global average of movement of vehicles using the railways is about 20 per cent. However, in India this figure is only two per cent. Apart from equipment, movement by road is still cheaper than what the railways charge.

However, Maruti Suzuki, India's leading car maker, say they have transported well over 200,000 cars using the railways and aim to increase the railway share to 20-30 per cent, from the present two per cent, in their vehicle movements.

shynee
BRFite
Posts: 550
Joined: 21 Oct 2003 11:31
Location: US

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby shynee » 26 Nov 2009 07:30


rachel
BRFite
Posts: 143
Joined: 17 Jan 2008 01:27
Location: www.canhindu.com

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby rachel » 28 Nov 2009 23:17

Recent news on the Indian EV front leads me to believe that an opportunity has been squandered, to some extent. What I am referring to is the dashing of earlier news that TATA e-Indica would be launched this year or early 2010.

Latest news indicates a launch in the January 2011 timeframe. This creates a problem, cuz they will then be going up against better known and huge firms like Nissan (LEAF) and GM(Volt).

If you are a consumer in the US or America, and u have a choice tween an EV made by Nissan or GM, versus REVA or Tata, which will u go for?

Unless there is a HUGE difference in performance and price, you would trust the bigger name.

If Tata and REVA do a full launch in America and Europe in 2011 or late 2010, I feel it is somewhat too late. Cuz in 2011 the big boys will be launching.

If they launched right now tho.... first mover advantage helps compensate for the lack of name recognition.

Very very disappointed that Tata e-Indica got delayed by a full year. That may be fatal.

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Surya » 29 Nov 2009 10:28

on the other hand there are more advantages to being second - as long as you have a good product

someone else has dealt with all the initial issues, awareness yada yada

rachel
BRFite
Posts: 143
Joined: 17 Jan 2008 01:27
Location: www.canhindu.com

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby rachel » 29 Nov 2009 21:05

Yes, but they wont really be launching second either, it seems from the timeframe that they will launch either during the same timeframe or perhasps just a few months before the big guys do.

I really was hoping that India would be number one in this field of electric cars.

Want to know what my dream is?

2012 onwards:

In both Europe and America, the number one and number two EV sellers would be two Indian firms, Tata and Reva.

That's what I want!!

Tanaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3251
Joined: 21 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Tanaji » 30 Nov 2009 00:00

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/from- ... ar/545510/

How to make your Nano look ass ugly and make me richer by Dilip Chhabria

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4842
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Neshant » 30 Nov 2009 07:00

i would not slam the guy, he's trying to invent a market for custom mods.

Although it looks un-pleasing to the eye.

ArmenT
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 4239
Joined: 10 Sep 2007 05:57
Location: Loud, Proud, Ugly American

Postby ArmenT » 30 Nov 2009 09:58

Maybe there's an Indian ricer community that could use some of these mods. After all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and one photo from an odd angle doesn't tell the whole story. Dilip Chhabria was also the designer of the Aston Martin Vanquish and a custom Rolls Royce.

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5688
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Dileep » 30 Nov 2009 10:27

Hmm, you haven't been to the "Weird and Wacky" page of TBHP then!!

Remember, we are RE as in in SDRE, so we should have a strong RICE culture.

bart
BRFite
Posts: 712
Joined: 04 Jan 2008 21:33

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby bart » 04 Dec 2009 20:14

GM and SAIC set to unveil India tie-up

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f7f6d2b8-e01f ... ck_check=1

Please boycott GM cars, and advise your friends and family to do the same.

rachel
BRFite
Posts: 143
Joined: 17 Jan 2008 01:27
Location: www.canhindu.com

GM and Chinese to destroy India auto industry

Postby rachel » 05 Dec 2009 05:07

Our pathetic loser Indian govt will not block this, but BART is 100 percent correct.

GM will use REVA world-leading EV tech in their car, and now Chinese Panda gets that tech as well.

I HATE GM, and I hate the loser Indian govt. They are destroying everything. CHINA will steal all our tech and gain 100 percent control of our auto industry.

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5688
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Dileep » 05 Dec 2009 16:24

I am a bit confused about the 'idle for 30 seconds' advice for the turbo equipped vehicles.

The reason quoted is that the turbo will be rotating while the engine and oil pump stops, and running the turbo without oil pressure can wear it down.

I think that is BS. The advice is to idle 30 seconds after stopping the car, assuming the turbo would stop by then. Can running 30 seconds without oil pressure (pressure, mind you, not without oil) do any harm to the turbo? IS the bearings on the turbo THAT sensitive?

Then IMHO, they don't belong there in the first place.

BTW, I know a guy who would idle the engine till it is warm before driving. This is in the silli-con valley, and he explained that the user manual says to do it in cold weather. The 40 degree F weather was cold for him, so he meticulously idles the engine till the needle shows warm. That would be several minutes.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 12871
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Suraj » 05 Dec 2009 23:35

I've never thought it was the oil that was the reason, as much as to cool the turbo down, that led to the advice to not abruptly shut the engine down. It also applies in reverse, i.e. don't push the turbo until the car's been driven a few minutes at least. Stock turbos are pretty small and get very hot under load. Rapid heating and cooling can accelerate metal and bearing fatigue.

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5688
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Dileep » 07 Dec 2009 10:43

How much would the turbo cool down in the 30-60 seconds idle time? And what diff does it make between the idle and running as far as temperature is concerned?

Doesn't make sense at all.

ArmenT
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 4239
Joined: 10 Sep 2007 05:57
Location: Loud, Proud, Ugly American

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby ArmenT » 07 Dec 2009 11:19

Dileep wrote:How much would the turbo cool down in the 30-60 seconds idle time? And what diff does it make between the idle and running as far as temperature is concerned?

Doesn't make sense at all.

This is done to preserve the turbo's bearings. Basically most turbos spin at some pretty high RPMs ( we're talking 100K RPMS or more, much higher than engine RPM which typically do 2000-4000 RPM while driving) and usually, it is fed oil from the same oil pump that feeds the engine as well. If you turn off the car immediately on stopping, without letting the turbo spin down, you're cutting off its source of oil. The bearings don't seize up right away of course, but it does significantly contribute to lowering bearing life (it is called "coking". Google for "turbo bearing coking" for more info). Turbos also run at pretty high temperatures (they can actually glow orange) and quite a few turbos receive coolant from the engine as well, so you want to run it for a little while at idle to allow the turbo to cool down a little bit. Again, same idea -- turn off engine immediately and turbo doesn't receive coolant either and oil starts breaking down and coking on the bearings.

Same principle also applies when starting up the car. Usually if it has been sitting all night in low temperatures, you want fresh oil moving through all parts of the car before you start putting load on the turbo. Revving the engine up right after starting activates the turbo charger and makes it run at very high RPMs with very little oil in the bearings, which is not good for bearing life.

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5688
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Dileep » 07 Dec 2009 16:02

Have anyone done a 'mythbuster' style verification of this? By using two engines side by side, with one turned off with a few seconds of idling, and the othet turned off after say, 60 seconds of idling. It doesn't make sense, whether on the oil pressure argument, or the coolant argument that a 30-60 seconds idle would make a difference.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 12871
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Suraj » 07 Dec 2009 22:11

Considering the problem is one of accelerated progressive wear and tear as opposed to immediate damage, Adam and Jamie on Mythbusters would probably take months to confirm this. My almost decade old car has its original turbo, and yes, I almost always do run it slow for a few minutes before I push the engine, and go easy on the accelerator for a few mins towards the end of a drive.

Tanaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3251
Joined: 21 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Tanaji » 07 Dec 2009 22:39

There are lots of shops that sell kits that idle the turbo even after the engine is switched off for 10-30 seconds.

I suspect that the recommendation is in to prolong the life of the bearings. It is not as if the bearings fail immediately if you dont idle, more likely the bearing manufacturer will not rate his bearings for a given MTBF unless the idling protocol is followed. And the car manufacturer will likely go along with the bearing manufacturer on this, because it does not want to sell a car with short MTBF on the bearings.

Mythbuster style shootout wont help unless they do the test continuously for extended periods rather than a one off test.

AnimeshP
BRFite
Posts: 514
Joined: 01 Dec 2008 07:39

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby AnimeshP » 09 Dec 2009 23:59

Volkswagen to buy 20% stake in Suzuki Motor

Wonder what this means for the Indian market ?

putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4432
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby putnanja » 10 Dec 2009 04:36

Bajaj scooter rides into the sunset

In March 2010, the last of “Hamara Bajaj” scooters will roll out of the Bajaj factory at Waluj, Aurangabad.

The Kristal, which is now safely the last of an illustrious line up of scooters from the Bajaj family, will meet the end of its life cycle by the close of this financial year.

“We are not developing scooters anymore. We will focus on motorcycles,” said Rajiv Bajaj, managing director, Bajaj Auto Ltd. “As we try to become a motorcycle specialist, this is a sacrifice we have to make.”

...

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4842
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Neshant » 10 Dec 2009 08:09

Volkswagen to buy 20% stake in Suzuki Motor
Wonder what this means for the Indian market ?


more competition set to arrive in the small car market?

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 10 Dec 2009 10:38

bajaj chetak scooter should have a place of honour in the great hall of the people. just like INS vikrant and maruti800.

it served with distinction against high odds.

Sriman
BRFite
Posts: 1858
Joined: 02 Mar 2009 11:38
Location: Committee for the Promotion of Vice and the Prevention of Virtue

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Sriman » 10 Dec 2009 10:50

pandyan wrote:Rediff comments are hilarious...
http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/ ... ooters.htm

GD impersonators on Rediff as well :eek:

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 12871
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Suraj » 10 Dec 2009 10:55

Singha wrote:bajaj chetak scooter should have a place of honour in the great hall of the people. just like INS vikrant and maruti800.

it served with distinction against high odds.

Indeed. I hope someone will write a hagiographic article, or better yet, a documentary about the venerable Bajaj scooter - "the two-wheeler that carried a billion people" - its origins, the original team leading its production, the growth of its manufacturing facilities, the vast distribution network, customer base and formal/jugaad maintenance services. Excellent History Channel kind of material.

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby svinayak » 10 Dec 2009 11:17

AnimeshP wrote:Volkswagen to buy 20% stake in Suzuki Motor

Wonder what this means for the Indian market ?


Volkswagen is already strong in China, whilst Suzuki is a powerful player in India through its controlling stake in Maruti Suzuki.

Karan Dixit
BRFite
Posts: 1102
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 02:43
Location: Calcutta

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Karan Dixit » 11 Dec 2009 10:17

HOUSTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Mahindra USA, the leader in affordable, high-quality farm equipment, has announced today that a new assembly and distribution point will be opened up in Chattanooga, TN effective December 31, 2009. Concurrently, Mahindra USA announced that it has moved its North American headquarters from Tomball, Texas to co-locate with its Houston, Texas assembly plant.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Mahindra- ... l?x=0&.v=1

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 11 Dec 2009 19:21

> gd impersonators

I like it. when the day of the dog comes, these will be rounded up and thrown to the lions, while the real gd (i.e. me) shall escape on horseback to constantinople.

Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7082
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Muppalla » 11 Dec 2009 20:16

Singha wrote:bajaj chetak scooter should have a place of honour in the great hall of the people. just like INS vikrant and maruti800.

it served with distinction against high odds.


Indian companies like Bajaj should build museums for future generations. Bajaj scooter is something of a nostalgic part of Indian life.

Ameet
BRFite
Posts: 841
Joined: 17 Nov 2006 02:49

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Ameet » 12 Dec 2009 02:20

Reva partners with Bannon to open a plant in NY for Reva cars

http://www.littleindia.com/news/160/ART ... 11-06.html

A New York company is entering a joint collaboration with Banglore-based Reva Electric Car Company to launch electric cars for the U.S. market in 2010.

Freeport, N.Y., based Bannon Automotive will build the three-door, plug-in hatchback Reva NXR and a sporty two-seater NXG at a suburb in Syracuse.

Reva and Bannon will jointly invest $26.5 million in the plant, while state and federal officials are providing a $6.76 million package in grants and tax incentives as well as $52 million in federal loans and loan guarantees.

Bannon’s Reva factory will initially employ 100 workers, growing to 250 in three years and will produce 15,000 to 20,000 cars annually.

The lithium-ion battery powered NXG model, priced from $20,000 to $25,000, reaches speeds of up to 65 mph with a range of 100 miles on a single charge. The lead-acid battery powered NXR’s speed tops out at 50 mph. The NXR has a 50-mile range and sells for around $17,000.

Yogi_G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2400
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 04:10
Location: Punya Bhoomi -- Jambu Dweepam

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Yogi_G » 12 Dec 2009 13:45

My recent encounter with Bajaj Chetak has not been all that memorable. My FIL owns one and I itched to ride it. I haven't driven a scooter in more than 10 years, last being using my friend's scooter on our way to chemistry tuitions. It was raining that day and the vehicle stopped a minute after I started it, standing. I was too lazy to get down and start it standing, decided to kick while seated. my sandals were slippery and so was the starter edge. BANG! my leg slipped and hit the ground :cry:. leg hurt for 2 days, my chet-hawk experience :|

Avinash R
BRFite
Posts: 1973
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 19:59

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Avinash R » 12 Dec 2009 18:46


putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4432
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby putnanja » 16 Dec 2009 00:47


Avinash R
BRFite
Posts: 1973
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 19:59

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Avinash R » 18 Dec 2009 10:33

Egypt invites Tata Motors to build Nano plant - paper
Thu, Dec 17 10:37 AM

Egypt has invited Tata Motors to build a factory to make the Nano, the world's cheapest car, in the African country for the local market and sales elsewhere, the Mint newspaper reported on Thursday.

"Egypt is seeking consent of Tata for left-hand drive Nano to be produced in Egypt, where a huge market is expected not only internally, but in the left-hand drive market in the Middle East and in Europe," the paper quoted Egypt's ambassador to India, Mohamed Higazy, as saying.

Higazy told the paper the company would consider the proposal after the initial phase of the Nano launch.

Tata launched the Nano in March this year and is expected to to take it to Europe by 2011 and to the United States later.

"While Tata Motors has said that the Tata Nano and its variants will also be introduced in other countries, the company has not decided on its manufacturing strategy (in other countries), let alone Egypt," the paper quoted a Tata Motors spokesman as saying in an email.



Italy invites Tata Motors, M&M to buy Fiat's Sicilian car unit


Return to “Technology & Economic Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: sooraj and 38 guests