Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 08 Dec 2009 00:17

surinder wrote:Johann, are you being sarcastic or this is truly your views?

Surinder, I was serious about the middle bits, but sarcastic at the beginning and end.

The foremost determination was to keep the Soviets out of the Iran, the Arabian Peninsula, and out of the Subcontinent.

Nehru's India in the 1940s was seen particularly by the Attlee and Truman as basically friendly - they were not really worried about India as a hostile force.

But friendly is not the same thing as allied, and allies are what you want most in life and death struggle.

Nehru's tendency to go neutral during a war, as seen in WWII was what troubled them. In contrast the Muslim League maintained its support all the way through the war.

It was clear that India was not in favour of the kind of strong alliance-based defence agreements that would deter the Soviets.

The reasoning was Pakistan would be something they could solidly count on in the emerging Cold War, and therefore worth supporting, along with a friendly India.

Olaf Caroe largely spelled it out all in his 'Wells of Power'.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 08 Dec 2009 00:25

J,

Thanks.

> But friendly is not the same thing as allied,
> and allies are what you want most in life
> and death struggle.

I think the word you want is a "client" state, not an ally. Allies can have independent mind, but clients states have no choice, and can can be both bribed & arm twisted. I think this distinction is important, not mere semantics.

> Nehru's tendency to go neutral during a war, as seen in WWII

Wasn't Nehru a commmited anti-Nazi? he was fully in support for the war. In fact, he made a visit to the front lines & reported/wrote that he was so enthused with the goal of fighting for the Allies that he himself felt like taking a gun and jumping into the trenches (not that he was physically fit for this kind of effort).

But I think the operative word is that he showed tendencies for independent thought, even if that thought led him to be an admirer of Western values, especially English values. But what was wanted was not an independent thinker who would support you, but a client.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 08 Dec 2009 00:43

Bombings, drone attacks fuel anti-US sentiment in Pakistan
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... stan-ha-02

‘Half his (my cousin’s) body was missing. We received the upper half... I think America, Israel and India are involved. The Taliban can’t do this – they used to target only police and army men.’

'I’m sure it was a drone attack,’ said Ghulam Ali, looking at his cotton shop, which was damaged in the Peshawar blast.

‘We are fed up. I can’t believe the Taliban are involved in these bombings. I’m sure the troika – America, India and Israel – is doing all this.’

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 08 Dec 2009 01:04

surinder wrote:J,

Thanks.

> But friendly is not the same thing as allied,
> and allies are what you want most in life
> and death struggle.

I think the word you want is a "client" state, not an ally. Allies can have independent mind, but clients states have no choice, and can can be both bribed & arm twisted. I think this distinction is important, not mere semantics.

> Nehru's tendency to go neutral during a war, as seen in WWII

Wasn't Nehru a commmited anti-Nazi? he was fully in support for the war. In fact, he made a visit to the front lines & reported/wrote that he was so enthused with the goal of fighting for the Allies that he himself felt like taking a gun and jumping into the trenches (not that he was physically fit for this kind of effort).

But I think the operative word is that he showed tendencies for independent thought, even if that thought led him to be an admirer of Western values, especially English values. But what was wanted was not an independent thinker who would support you, but a client.

Surinder,

You're absolutely spot on.

The British could not believe the gall of Nehru... leading an India whose economy (thoroughly looted for 200 years) was nonexistent, whose military was entirely British-supplied and British-trained, the vast majority of whose people were illiterate village-dwellers...aspiring to anything more than abjectly subservient client-status in the Great Struggle Against Communism.

Military "heroes" of the Second World War, such as Douglas Gracey and Claude Auchinleck (who almost lost North Africa to Rommel) were shocked that this former source of unquestioningly obedient military manpower, now had pretensions to anything more than client status. They backed Pakistan to the hilt, as did Philip Noel-Baker, British delegate to the new United Nations in the 1940s.

The Truman administration paid scant attention to India, being more preoccupied with the Far East... but Dulles under Eisenhower was very much influenced by Noel-Baker, who was highly regarded in American circles, having lectured in international relations at Yale during the '30s.

Try C.R. Das Gupta's "War and Diplomacy in Kashmir 1947-48" for a comprehensive understanding of British (and by extension, Western) aims behind their policy of supporting Pakistan.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 08 Dec 2009 01:24

Due to the lack of any other related thread, I am posting here

The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto
Mukhlis T July 11, 2005
Translation of a chapter from Col Rafi ud Din’s Urdu book “Bhutto kay akhri 323 din”
Official Notification of Mr. Bhutto's Execution

http://www.chowk.com/articles/9370

Mr. Bhutto’s Burial

Half an hour after the hanging, and after the jail doctor had issued the death certificate, Bhutto Sahib’s hanging body was taken down at 2:35 a.m. His dead body was given a bath, the arrangements for which had already been made at the spot. A photographer, who had been sent by an intelligence agency, took some photographs of Mr. Bhutto (of Mr. Bhutto’s private parts, which the author also mentioned in an earlier chapter). The authorities wanted to confirm whether Mr. Bhutto had been circumcised in Islamic manner or not. After the photographs were taken, it was confirmed that he was circumcised in the Islamic way.

What the hell is the ijjlamic way? Is there any limit to their madness...

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 08 Dec 2009 01:25

Lahore one scores up to 40. So it's a clean well swept of the meat of the bat for 4 according to Sridhar ji's format?

Score 46

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 08 Dec 2009 01:41

Nice article. Good read.

No pals in Nepal

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 08 Dec 2009 01:43

Indias foreign policy is a muddle

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/2009 ... years.html

The J&K Problem - A Self Goal

Nothing illustrates our muddle headed approach in foreign policy more than the festering store of the J&K problem - entirely our creation. When our Army was poised to clear J&K of Pakistan raiders and regular army, we took the issue to the UN, thereby turning a bilateral problem into a world problem. The problem gets compounded thereafter. Take the case of the UN Resolution of 1949 which is in three parts. Part I says there will be a ceasefire between India and Pakistan. Part 2 says Pakistan must vacate aggression and withdraw all its regular and irregular forces from J&K and Indian administration will extend to the entire state of J&K as hitherto fore. Part 3 says that once conditions become normal, plebiscite will be held. So as shall be seen, the UN Resolution is highly favourable to us. Instead of trashing the UN Resolution, we should have been harping on Part II and not mention Part III at all like Pakistan only mentions Part III, ie, the plebiscite bit. After the ‘71 war we started saying that the Shimla Agreement supersedes all UN Resolutions. The world does not agree to this. A UN Resolution becomes null and void only when a resolution is passed to that effect and this has not happened yet in the case of J&K. Shimla was a golden opportunity to solve J&K problem once and for all, but we allowed this opportunity to slip by. The J&K problem will continue forever.

India’s Pakistan Policy

Pakistan has been a craw in our gullet ever since its unnatural creation in 1947. The biggest challenge for India’s foreign policy establishment has been on how to tackle Pakistan and it has miserably failed to evolve a coherent and consistent policy in respect of Pakistan. Pakistan has managed to outmaneuver us on all issues. There are two schools of thought on Pakistan policy. The ‘bleeding hearts’ say that a stable Pakistan is in India’s interest while the ‘hawks’ want it to be dismembered into its four constituent provinces. India’s mandarins have not been able to decide what policy to follow. On the other hand, Pakistan suffers from no such dilemmas. Its policy is clear. India must be balkanised by whatever means - fair and foul - war, proxy war, terrorism, nuclear blackmail, et al. It has successfully managed to convince most of the world that it is India which is in illegal occupation of J&K. What could be worse than this is that we have not been able to convince anyone that J&K problem is a creation of Pakistan right since 1947.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Dec 2009 01:52

Jarita pipe down. This is not the correct thread for the discussion. There is one in the mil Forum. You can continue there.
No more on this here.

Thanks, ramana

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 08 Dec 2009 01:52

Looks like someone took this short video of lahore moon market blasts with a flip phone (the end of the clip makes me think). Could this be the talibs who planted the bombs. The second blast is clearly heard at the begining.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYSoneO9u_Y

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 08 Dec 2009 02:12

Two things we need to watch closely.

1. La Whore score
2. Tiger Woods score.

Both reaching new heights ever hour.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 08 Dec 2009 02:14

anishns wrote:Due to the lack of any other related thread, I am posting here

The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto
Mukhlis T July 11, 2005
Translation of a chapter from Col Rafi ud Din’s Urdu book “Bhutto kay akhri 323 din”
Official Notification of Mr. Bhutto's Execution
http://www.chowk.com/articles/9370

Mr. Bhutto’s Burial

Half an hour after the hanging, and after the jail doctor had issued the death certificate, Bhutto Sahib’s hanging body was taken down at 2:35 a.m. His dead body was given a bath, the arrangements for which had already been made at the spot. A photographer, who had been sent by an intelligence agency, took some photographs of Mr. Bhutto (of Mr. Bhutto’s private parts, which the author also mentioned in an earlier chapter). The authorities wanted to confirm whether Mr. Bhutto had been circumcised in Islamic manner or not. After the photographs were taken, it was confirmed that he was circumcised in the Islamic way.
What the hell is the ijjlamic way? Is there any limit to their madness...

That truly gives me the shivers. Not death but the sheer derangement that can occur in the human mind from a warped ideology. Humanity is subsumed under symbols and locus shifts to obscure, undefinable ideas of right and wrong - like trying to hold the wind. So similar to what was done in China under Mao and then the Khmer ROuge.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 08 Dec 2009 02:20

Thank you India for the good deal: Pakistan

Lahore, December 7:
India's support has helped Pakistan to secure a “good deal” in the International Cricket Council’s post-2012 Future Tours Program, Pakistan Cricket Board CEO Wasim Bari has said.

Bari said the PCB feared that Pakistan might be allocated lesser matches in the next FTP due to the volatile security situation in the country.

“I must say the ICC and member nations including India have been very supportive and understanding of the situation Pakistan cricket is facing now,” the Daily Times quoted Bari, as saying.

“The good thing is that the suggestion to have the top four or five teams play more against each other in the FTP have not been accepted,” he added.

http://publication.samachar.com/pub_art ... id=6856318

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 08 Dec 2009 02:24

^^^ that crocadile gratitude evaporated within a few minutes.
And then back to Zaid Hamid and other deranged proclammations.

Indians, nothing we do will make Pakistanis stop disliking us let alone like us.

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 08 Dec 2009 03:01

gandharva wrote:
Thank you India for the good deal: Pakistan

Lahore, December 7:
India's support has helped Pakistan to secure a “good deal” in the International Cricket Council’s post-2012 Future Tours Program, Pakistan Cricket Board CEO Wasim Bari has said.

Bari said the PCB feared that Pakistan might be allocated lesser matches in the next FTP due to the volatile security situation in the country.

“I must say the ICC and member nations including India have been very supportive and understanding of the situation Pakistan cricket is facing now,” the Daily Times quoted Bari, as saying.

“The good thing is that the suggestion to have the top four or five teams play more against each other in the FTP have not been accepted,” he added.

http://publication.samachar.com/pub_art ... id=6856318

post 2012 there would nothing in TSP let alone cricket

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 08 Dec 2009 03:02

harbans wrote:Lahore one scores up to 40. So it's a clean well swept of the meat of the bat for 4 according to Sridhar ji's format?
Score 46

Mubarak ho Pak ko IED ka Zamana, Mai Khush hoon aaya Pakislam ka Paigama
Allah Kasam Drone ke pass na janna, Paki Army hai Khulamkhula Kaffirana
Matt suniyo inka koi bahanna,Sooside button Peshawar,Lahore me dabana
YYY conspiracy phir sabb ko batana ,buss Ied ki khabar roj humko sunnaana.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 08 Dec 2009 03:07

the bum belast video is remarkable for the calm demenour of the voices heard in the background... are the pukes so used to IED mubarak that they don't react anymore?

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 08 Dec 2009 03:54

Brothers friend left the States to study in Peshawar. He says it was initially hard to sleep at night with the frequent sound of automatic fire and occasional blast. Moreover, he claims it was difficult getting used to the smell of seared hair and flesh after a bombing and the sight of small kids and babies peppered with shrapnel. After a while though, it did indeed become quite normal for him and he was finally able to get some shut eye. Guess he'll make a great emergency doc someday...

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 08 Dec 2009 04:00

the psycological effect of this is everybody is becoming very Numb and the trends indicate towards a indifferent behaviour and the fingers point to the common enemy, the halucination effect would make them beleive that this is the truth.

this is like a time bomb ticking and would explode out of propotions

no one in the media and the so called jhamuriat pigs seem to control this.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 08 Dec 2009 04:08

Defies logic to leave the US to study of all places in Peshawar..

SureshP · Post by **SureshP** » 08 Dec 2009 05:20

Wealthy Sindhi Hindus shifting assets to India

Tuesday, December 08, 2009
By Imtiaz Hussain

Families belonging to Hindu community have started shifting their businesses and other assets to India from upper Sindh due to poor security situation which could cause loss of millions of rupees in revenue to the province.

Hindus deal in cotton, gold, rice, chilli, import and export, et cetera and earn millions of rupees and generate good revenues in upper Sindh including Khairpur, Shikarpur, Jacobabad, Kandhkot, Ghotki and some other areas.

They are very popular and famous among customers for sales and marketing of products on account of their oily conversations as compared to their Muslim counterparts who quickly flare up in trading with shoppers.

History tells that these successful banias commenced their business at a low level but succeeded by leaps and bounds in capturing all trades in these districts and expanding their business from shops to factories. And these days, they are busy transferring their assets to the neighbouring country, India, because they see better opportunities there in terms of security and more profits in business.

A Hindu trader, Kanayo Mall, with his colleagues in the local market shared some shocking views with The News, saying that they were fed up with dealing with ruffians, kidnappers and robbers who not only deprive them of their valuable assets but harass them often. They feel insecure here in the market. It is so bad that these gangs of thugs being patronised by feudal lords, landlords and even police officers are taking a heavy toll on a peaceful business climate while local authorities and law enforcement agencies seem helpless in tackling this deteriorating security situation.

He said even though politicians and landlords borrow money from Hindu businessmen, mortgage their properties and lease out land to them so as to maintain influence-cum-monopoly in the area, Hindus are agonised. A couple of influential and well-to-do people have hired scores of dacoits to kidnap banias for ransom, coerced this community to put up shutter in the province without any option.

Non-governmental organisation (NGO) activist Ikhtiar Khaskheli talking to The News supported standpoints of Kanayo, and added that owing to lack of good governance, cellphone companies shelved their projects in the interior of the province due to security fears.

Khaskheli said the Sindh chief minister, interior minister and some other officials claim that the province is good for businesspeople, but the situation negates their statements. These big shots put the community in a false sense of security. As a number of families already left for India by winding up their local business with a view to settling there and 85 business families vexed by criminals have been planning to move their entire business in India where they think that they would feel secure and earn colossal profits due to special privileges offered by India to businesspeople.

DIG Police Bashir Ahmed Memon said Hindu traders are migrating to the neibouring country due to the economic meltdown and they are in search of better work there, as far as the law and order situation is concerned, it is not bad in the rural Sindh.

Another senior police officer voiced the same notions and added that Hindu businessmen always strive to settle in India since the partition in 1947 because there are many opportunities in India in respect of trade and income. He gave the example of Baloch people who used to settle themselves in Sindh and now are going to Iran due to the bad recession.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=212146

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 08 Dec 2009 05:35

Ahhh
Ramana,
Shikarpur is mentioned in the article

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 08 Dec 2009 06:17

They supposedly have a really good medical school there. Many of the graduates are sought after in the US and Europe b/c all they pretty much do is patch up gun shot and blast related wounds. Hey now that i think about it, ER physicians might be there second best export thanks to those kafir butchering zombies lol.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 08 Dec 2009 06:19

Lalmohan wrote:the bum belast video is remarkable for the calm demenour of the voices heard in the background... are the pukes so used to IED mubarak that they don't react anymore?

The voices are mainly concerned about reaching home. That is all they talk about.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 08 Dec 2009 06:23

Hmmmm...A conundrum, indeed. While Pakjab's Governor Taseer says US, India not involved in terrorism, his own Laaa minister Rana Sana says India, terrorist outfits plot Lahore blasts. Aaargh! This suspense is killing me. Who should I believe? I wonder what Pooki Deaf and Dumb analysts are saying?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 08 Dec 2009 06:30

The Idiot's Guide to Pakistan
A keeper.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 08 Dec 2009 06:55

surinder wrote:J,

Thanks.

> But friendly is not the same thing as allied,
> and allies are what you want most in life
> and death struggle.

I think the word you want is a "client" state, not an ally. Allies can have independent mind, but clients states have no choice, and can can be both bribed & arm twisted. I think this distinction is important, not mere semantics.

> Nehru's tendency to go neutral during a war, as seen in WWII

Wasn't Nehru a commmited anti-Nazi? he was fully in support for the war. In fact, he made a visit to the front lines & reported/wrote that he was so enthused with the goal of fighting for the Allies that he himself felt like taking a gun and jumping into the trenches (not that he was physically fit for this kind of effort).

But I think the operative word is that he showed tendencies for independent thought, even if that thought led him to be an admirer of Western values, especially English values. But what was wanted was not an independent thinker who would support you, but a client.

Surinder,

An ally is someone you fight shoulder to shoulder with. A friend is someone who wishes you well, but doesn't want to get involved.

In WW II the Soviet Union, De Gaulle's Free French, and Chiang Kai Shek's Chinese were not clients. They had their own agendas, and pursued them, causing real friction.

But regardless, it was an alliance because all parties were committed to fighting the same enemy.

Yes Nehru was anti-Nazi, like many on the left. However, the INC as a whole chose to resign from government in 1939, and to launch the Quit India movement in 1942 when the threat from the Japanese was at its peak.

Both before and after WWII Nehru made it clear that he did *not* consider the Soviet Union to be a threat. After the war he indicated that he considered the United States to be the greater threat to world peace. Clearly, Nehru had no interest in participating in a Cold War or Hot War against the USSR (and originally the PRC too) -even independently, and on his own terms.

The British on the whole certainly appreciated Nehru, and wanted to see him succeed. The need for Allies in the Cold War, and to stand with them if it turned hot was a separate problem.

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 08 Dec 2009 06:55

anupmisra wrote: I wonder what Pooki Deaf and Dumb analysts are saying?

It's always the same thing:

Poster 0: ***Breaking news***Bomb blast - 2 injured ****
1: **** Bomb blast 2 killed ******
2: **** Bomb blast 10 killed now - ARY
3:

**** Death toll goes up to 35 ****
4: Damn RAT Bhindians we know who is behind it
5: When will our leaders have the balls

6: Pakistan should develop ICBMS and test fire some ghauris

7: Inhe logon ne inhe logon ne - may allah bless them
8: More Inhe logon ne inhe logon ne (<---- BTW, why they never complete the song: "lay liya dupatta mera")
9: We should bomb India and ban bollywood

10: No, it's our own jahil TTP supported by bhindia
etc.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 08 Dec 2009 07:08

I am sure this days in pakiland, mohtarma must be telling her kids, "Bache So ja warna India aaiga"

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 08 Dec 2009 07:26

MurthyB: But some times one may get surprised... Take this for example - this reaction and solution to recent Lahore blast:

Assalamaoalukum,

there is no need for any trial or judges. Anyone found remotely connected to Takfiris must be liquidated. I have seen it with my own eyes in Karachi when police/rangers would pick up young guys with guns in possession take them around the bend and shoot them. If it can be done in Karachi to mostly innocent people then why cant it be done to guilty like hell takfiris??

Sorry can't find the right smiley ..

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 08 Dec 2009 07:41

MurthyB wrote:
anupmisra wrote: I wonder what Pooki Deaf and Dumb analysts are saying?
It's always the same thing:
Poster 0: ***Breaking news***Bomb blast - 2 injured ****
1: Y
3: **** Death toll goes up to 35 **** etc.

Terrorism is as essential to Pakistaniat as incest and Candian visit. But seem they all end up doing chrous
"enna cry, wei onna cry, waa bondal jayee" ( Bondal= Punjabi slang for retard)

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 08 Dec 2009 07:59

Not sure if this was posted.

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 08 Dec 2009 08:06

Yeah, I saw that

Actually, they had a hilarious thread going on bombing dams in Kashmir.

But it will flood our own villages and kill.
No it won't.
Yes it will!
We should not becoz when we liberate kashmir we will have dams!

Amber G. wrote:MurthyB: But some times one may get surprised... Take this for example - this reaction and solution to recent Lahore blast:
Assalamaoalukum,

there is no need for any trial or judges. Anyone found remotely connected to Takfiris must be liquidated. I have seen it with my own eyes in Karachi when police/rangers would pick up young guys with guns in possession take them around the bend and shoot them. If it can be done in Karachi to mostly innocent people then why cant it be done to guilty like hell takfiris??
Sorry can't find the right smiley ..

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 08 Dec 2009 08:09

Interview with a Soosai bomber.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Dec 2009 08:11

MurthyB wrote:
anupmisra wrote: I wonder what Pooki Deaf and Dumb analysts are saying?
It's always the same thing:

Poster 0: ***Breaking news***Bomb blast - 2 injured ****
1: **** Bomb blast 2 killed ******
2: **** Bomb blast 10 killed now - ARY
3: **** Death toll goes up to 35 ****
4: Damn RAT Bhindians we know who is behind it
5: When will our leaders have the balls
6: Pakistan should develop ICBMS and test fire some ghauris
7: Inhe logon ne inhe logon ne - may allah bless them
8: More Inhe logon ne inhe logon ne (<---- BTW, why they never complete the song: "lay liya dupatta mera")
9: We should bomb India and ban bollywood
10: No, it's our own jahil TTP supported by bhindia
etc.

I used to frown on this when I was adminullah - but its facscinating. Many comments sound just like BRF. eg test ICBMs, no-balls leadership, "our own traitors" etc. Tells ya something dunnit?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 08 Dec 2009 08:14

Tells ya something dunnit?

Of course it does. The charitable explanation is that the pookis, in the glorious tradition of bumfather photochor, are foto-copying BRF w/o citation or regard for copyright. The spicier explanation is that there is no (and never was any?) vast difference b/w BRF's hot air phorums and pooki deff and dumb fora. Jai AoA only.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 08 Dec 2009 08:16

Guys I am seriously worried now. I do hope whoever in India is doing all they can to stop TSP from doing a equal-equal in one of our cities.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 08 Dec 2009 08:16

Shiv,
I can assure you that the average Indian does not have Paki paranoia the way the average Pakistani has abt India. Have a discussion with a Paki - confess you are anti a particular religion etc... Get into heart of it.
Pakistan is not top of mind for India

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 08 Dec 2009 08:17

shiv wrote:I used to frown on this when I was adminullah - but its facscinating. Many comments sound just like BRF. eg test ICBMs, no-balls leadership, "our own traitors" etc. Tells ya something dunnit?

Shiv saar, say it ain't so!

At least it's only BRF-DefDumb equal equal?!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 08 Dec 2009 08:17

^^^
11. Get rid of Zardari
12. The army should takeover.
13. Bring back Mooshy
14. Lampost for Mooshy, Zardari, Badmash.
15. Make Jahil Hamid El-brejidente.

wrt the Dams in J&K. The defndumb armchair talibs were planning to nuke those dams and were jumping up and down, until some slightly wiser guy amongst them suggested that they will themselves drown if the dams blow.
That's it their entire gameplan changed to going to the UN / World bank / Amreeka.