Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Dec 2009 17:08

Abhijit wrote: I have observed that the MSM English media in India always writes as if it is some kind of a third party - but more specifically as if the journo ... is a citizen of America/England or both. He/she writes from a western viewpoint as if India is some third world country that he/she has been,

You are a true piskologist - more seriously this is an astute sociological observation made by you and worded so well that I will have to learn it by heart and repeat it elsewhere as my own.

This is THE classic description of linguistic fractal recursivity in its most exact sense - i.e the original definition. The colonised takes on the language and attitudes of the colonizer and uses that on his own compatriots. This has to be the acme of Macaulayism.

sum · Post by **sum** » 10 Dec 2009 17:27

sunnyP wrote:
New Delhi: The Indian Ministry of External Affairs on Thursday cleared visas for all four Pakistan cricketers needed to participate in Indian Premier League (IPL) 2010. Kamran Akmal, Misbah-ul-Haq, Sohail Tanvir and Umar Gul will now be free to take part in the third edition of the IPL.

http://cricketnext.in.com/news/visas-cl ... 77-13.html

So much for our govt having adopted a "hard stance"

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » 10 Dec 2009 18:46

A military coup in Pakistan?

A military coup is unfolding in Pakistan, but, this time, there is no rumbling of tanks on the streets of Islamabad. Instead, it seems the military is using a new strategy for regime change in Pakistan, one that will have adverse consequences for Western troops deployed in Afghanistan.

A year after rogue elements of Pakistan's intelligence services disrupted Indian-Pakistani peace talks by staging the Mumbai massacre, the democratically elected government of President Asif Zardari is facing a putsch from within its ranks, engineered by the men who run Pakistan's infamous military-industrial complex.

The men who wish to replace Mr. Zardari represent the religious right-wing backers of the Taliban and al-Qaeda, adding a new obstacle in Barack Obama's war effort in Afghanistan. A change of guard in Pakistan will also place Canadian troops at a higher risk of attack from a Taliban that will get unimpeded access to safe havens across the international border.

In the West's war against terrorism, Mr. Zardari is probably the only politician in Pakistan who has the guts to identify the cancer of jihadi extremism and order the Pakistani army to root it out. With reluctance, the army has complied, but only half-heartedly. With him gone, it's almost a certainty that Canada and the United States, as well as Afghanistan and India, will once more face the deception and fraud that became the hallmark of Pervez Musharraf's military regime.

For years, the Pakistani army received billions of dollars in direct American aid while it backed the Taliban and staged faked armed encounters to deceive the Pentagon.

The army views the government's efforts at peace with both Afghanistan and India not only with suspicion but also with alarm. Peace with India would undermine the very raison d'être of Pakistan's massive military.

The army's patience with Mr. Zardari ran out in October, when the U.S. Congress passed the Kerry-Lugar bill that promised billions in aid to Pakistan, but with a crucial caveat: The money would go through the channels of the civilian administration and if the military interfered with the democratic process or bullied the politicians and the judiciary, the Americans would halt all aid to the military.

The generals were in an uproar. Having lived their entire lives with a sense of entitlement that rivalled medieval caliphs and emperors, the men in uniform started a campaign to dislodge Mr. Zardari and his ambassador in Washington, Husain Haqqani – the authors, they said, of their misfortune.

Addicted to the billions in U.S. aid that have made them among the wealthiest in their impoverished country, Pakistan's generals are in a Catch-22. If they overthrow the government, they risk losing the manna from America. If they do nothing, they lose their veto over government policymaking, domestic as well as foreign.

Stung by this loss of power, the generals have asked the pro-Taliban media to whip up an anti-U.S. and anti-India frenzy in the country, claiming that Mr. Zardari has sold out to the Americans and the Indians.

Mr. Zardari also is being depicted as the epitome of corruption and thus unworthy of governing Pakistan. Working from within the government, military intelligence was able to coax a junior minister to release a list of thousands of supposedly corrupt politicians and public officials in the country. Leading them was Mr. Zardari himself – notwithstanding the fact that before he was elected president, he had been imprisoned for more than a decade by the military without a single conviction.

What irks the generals is not just that they are now answerable to a civilian but that Mr. Zardari belongs to an ethnic group that is shunned by the country's ruling Punjabi elite. Mr. Zardari is a Sindhi.

The hysteria among Pakistan's upper-class elites demanding a military dictatorship is best reflected in an article written by a retired military officer in the right-wing newspaper The News: “Military rule should … return. … The problem with democratic governments is that they remain under pressure to go with what the majority of the citizens want, not what is best for them. … People of several South American countries that have returned to civilian rule after a long time are now beginning to feel they were better off under dictatorships.”

If Mr. Obama wishes to succeed in bringing the Afghan war to an end, he had better make sure Mr. Zardari's elected civilian administration is allowed to govern until the end of its term. A coup in Islamabad will mean failure in Kabul.

Tarek Fatah is a former activist in Pakistan and founder of the Muslim Canadian Congress. He is author of Chasing a Mirage: The Tragic Illusion of an Islamic State.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opi ... le1393331/

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Dec 2009 19:33

This wise move is undoubtedly going to cause some takleef in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. :

More controls sought on aid to Pakistan

Tierney, Lynch want distribution monitored

By Farah Stockman
Globe Staff /
WASHINGTON - Two Massachusetts representatives and witnesses at a House hearing yesterday said more safeguards may be required to make sure $1.5 billion a year in US development aid to Pakistan is not spent inappropriately or skimmed off in corruption.

Representatives John F. Tierney and Stephen F. Lynch, both of Massachusetts and both members of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, said they plan to increase scrutiny of the aid to Pakistan, which was pushed through Congress by Massachusetts Senator John F. Kerry.

“What has been troubling us is all this money going over there - how are you going to monitor it?’’ said Tierney, who chairs the committee, after a hearing he called to consider ways of guiding the money into the right hands. “If Congress doesn’t do something about this, we are part of the problem.’’

The Obama administration is still struggling to determine the best way to deliver the aid. The assistance would give Pakistan up to $1.5 billion per year for civilian development projects during the next five years.

As the security situation deteriorates in Pakistan, with near-daily bombings and an all-out military assault on vast swaths of the country, both US and Pakistani officials have expressed urgency about delivering the funds.

But some of the money is aimed at insurgent-infested areas that are too dangerous for Americans to visit. And Tierney expressed “serious concerns’’ about the ability of the US Agency for International Development to monitor projects “without ever seeing them in person.’’

He and Lynch said distribution of the money may have to be delayed while such problems are solved. …………………………

Boston Globe

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Dec 2009 20:21

Colonel plays out the “Jihad fi Sabilillah” or “Jihad in the path of Allah” part of motto of “ Iman, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabilillah” of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and gets a court martial for his troubles.

Is it halal in an Islamic Republic for the Government to penalise an individual for following the exhortations of a motto on Jihad

:

Court martial of colonel, two others from tomorrow

By Our Monitoring Desk Submitted 9 hrs 55 mins ago

Court-martial of a military officer and two civilians, who went missing in Rawalpindi a few months back, will start on Friday (tomorrow) on charges of spying and inciting army personnel to get involved in terrorist acts, reported BBC on Wednesday.

Colonel Shahid Bashir, a former Air Force pilot and now an advocate Nadeem Ahmad Shah, and Awais Ali Khan, an Engineer, were arrested by a military intelligence agency in Rawalpindi in May this year. …………………..

The three accused are in Army custody in Kotli District of Azad Kashmir but no details of the allegations levelled on them have been duly furnished so far. Certain sources, however, have told BBC that the three persons have been accused of leaking out some secrets of the PAF airbase Shamsi in Balochistan and inducing Army officers to destructive activities. ……………………..

As per details of the charges sent to the families of the three persons, Col Shahid Bashir of Army Engineering Unit has been charged with leaking out secrets of Shamsi airbase to the people who were planning to attack the airbase.

Col Bashir hails from Faisalabad and he is being interrogated for keeping links with Hizbut Tahrir.

Nadeem Ahmad Shah, a former PAF pilot and a lawyer for the last several years, is an active member of Rawalpindi Bar.

Awais Ali Khan returned to Pakistan in 2002 after getting his Mechanical Engineer’s degree from the US. He is a Green Card holder and husband of an American spouse. He joined service with Air Weapons Complex run by Pakistan Army but two years before he resigned from his service. Since then he has been running his own factory.

The Nation

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 10 Dec 2009 20:55

Shamsi Airbase in Balochistan is the major Predator and Reaper drone base.

The other two airbases which have been given to the US are Pasni and Jacobabad.

In addition the US forces have bases in Tarbela (Where I suspect they are guarding pakistan's nookes), there is that police training college compound just outside pindi where the US has several large containers stored, which regularly causes takleef to the pakistanis, who constantly allude to its proximity to kahuta. There is also an airstrip next to Tarbela Dam that has been walled off and perhaps is also in US's hands.

And ofcourse the huge walled off area in Isloo / pindi to house those "1000" marines. The Pak fauj has to resort to subterfuge to try and bring down Zardari, whereas in the past, the X core commander's 2IC would make a few phone calls and that would be it. What a downfall it has been.

Pakistan exists as an independent nation only on the map, it is effectively US's 51st state.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 Dec 2009 21:10

Abhijit wrote: I have observed that the MSM English media in India always writes as if it is some kind of a third party - but more specifically as if the journo ... is a citizen of America/England or both. He/she writes from a western viewpoint as if India is some third world country that he/she has been,

This is the result of the western sociology studies on Indian society pre-independence and post-independence and the elite who did not create a Indian point of view. Western trained Indians only know the western point of view and fractal recursitivity is considered normal inside India.
The Indian news reports are really news reports for the western elite informing them about India. It is not for Indians to understand the rest of the world.

bart · Post by **bart** » 10 Dec 2009 21:16

Charlie wrote:A military coup in Pakistan?

Military coup in Pakistan is a bit of an oxymoron, for most of it's history the country has been firmly in control of the military, with the odd civilian government being merely a figurehead. Whatever military coups have occurred so far are mainly due to personal ego (like Musharraf) and making a statement, rather than any real transfer of power from civilian to military.

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Dec 2009 21:17

Gagan wrote:Shamsi Airbase in Balochistan is the major Predator and Reaper drone base.

The base in Balochistan used by the US to operate drones is the Bandari Air-base at Shimsi which gets confused with the Shamsi Airbase which is also in Balochistan.

At least that's what BR favourite

Dr. Shireen Mazari has to say. See here.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 10 Dec 2009 21:31

The Bandari Airbase at Shamshi is what is referred to as the "Shamshi Airfield".

There is no other seperate entity, these two are the same. The correct name is as you point out - Bandari Airbase at Shamshi. (or Shimshi)

Please also note Pasni and Jacobabad are the other US bases.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Dec 2009 22:17

Abhijit, In 1997, Gautam Sen wrote an article in Indian Express called "The Trouble with Third World Leftists"

...
The failure of Third World elites to understand the West is partly
due to what can be described as sample bias, although private
career interests are important as well. Their exposure to the West
is primarily through its universities which are relatively liberal
though largely powerless. And exposure to the Left in countries
like the UK is especially consequential because, while their
radical views have little impact on their own societies, they
successfully brainwash Third World elites who wield power at home.
Academics like Maurice Dobb and Harold Laski who decisively
perverted the world-view of a whole generation of Indians were
cranks, irrelevant to the governing elites of Britain. But even
now Indians recall these names with misguided awe.

The principal damage inflicted by such Western duplicity is to
encourage Third World intellectuals to oppose their domestic ruling
order implacably, in the name of the class struggle, even if it
fatally undermines the state apparatus. The dire necessity of a
strong state, domestic social cohesion and military prowess are
thus opposed by this strata of Third World society.

The other lamentable deficiency in their education is the obsession
with the idea of progress. The consequence is the belief that the
world is gradually becoming a better place and Western societies
and their politicians today are better than their ruthless
predecessors. There is no evidence for sustaining this conviction,
but it aids old-fashioned re-conquest of the Third World.

...

and

The allure of international seminars as well as the fear of
traditional bases of Third World protest, inevitably religious,
reinforces the covert and, increasingly, public support of Third
World Leftists for Western imperialism. The backing of the
international Left and its Third World allies for the mass murder
taking place in Algeria is a case in point. India's secular Left
wing defenders of Islam quickly adopt the militant anti-Islamic
rhetoric of their Western sponsors as soon as they land at the
airport!

Given the enduring influence of colonial education, only prolonged
and deep estrangement from the dominant Western intellectual
perspective allows one to see things differently. China's elites,
unlike India's, are relatively immune, because they do not
understand English and cannot therefore absorb this virus as a
matter of course.

Read more, here is the link:
http://www.hvk.org/articles/0397/0073.html

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 10 Dec 2009 22:29

Yes, the problem is that India uses windows and is there for more exposed to the virus, while the chinese use Linux and are less exposed, perhaps because the virus designers also use the windows OS.

BTW, why is this ij the Jive Pakistan thread?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Dec 2009 22:34

Gagan wrote:Pakistan exists as an independent nation only on the map, it is effectively US's 51st state.

52nd. you forgot UQ.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 10 Dec 2009 22:44

Mom denies terror link as 6 arrested in Pakistan ---- CNN

In an interview with CNN, Subira Farouk said her son, Umar, was one of the young men detained in the case. She said her husband also was arrested, which would bring to six the number of people in custody. Police confirmed they have six people in custody, not five, as was originally reported.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 Dec 2009 22:55

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions ... orism-1871

Shows Loyalty of U.S. Muslims Spencer Ackeman insists the arrests "show signs of the durability of American Muslim resistance to radicalization. The arrests wouldn't have happened, for instance, if a much-maligned American Muslim organization [Council on American-Islamic Relations] hadn't put the accused's worried families in touch with the government." He writes, "[A] leading American Muslim organization, faced with credible fears of U.S. involvement in terrorism, promptly contacted law enforcement."
U.S. Radicals and Afghan War The New Republic's Michael Crowley calls this "The latest installment in a disturbing trend of U.S. citizens found to have connections to radicals in the tribal areas of Pakistan." He adds, "I'm convinced that this kind of thing--especially the Zazi case--weighed heavily on Barack Obama's mind when he decided to recommit the U.S. to Afghanistan."
American Terrorism Abroad? Glenn Reynolds asks, "Is the U.S. now exporting terror?" Dan Riehl shakes his head, "Great. They're young, all from the DC area and one left a video behind claiming Muslims needed to be defended. One was a dental student at Howard University."

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 10 Dec 2009 23:00

Court martial of colonel, two others from tomorrow

This is significant. Of course hardly likely to be the first case of incitement to jihad, but PA finds situation getting out of control requiring a public demonstration of disincentive.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 10 Dec 2009 23:15

Karan Dixit wrote:Very interesting!

---

http://www.islandpacket.com/politics/story/1063949.html

After the five men disappeared, family members approached the human rights group, which says it immediately went to the FBI with the information.

Yeah ... saw endless coverage on CNN (along with Interviews with Muslim leaders of the Virginia mosque , Muslim "chaplain" and terror experts) on how "normal US Muslim" youths went missing.. their families so worried, the Muslim leaders so patriotic that they informed FBI right away and yes, how our friends Paki's helped FBI by finding them in Pak (See in global word how "our" allies ISI helped FBI - Pak is such a nice friend etc..)

What is funny that NO one in CNN (from 8PM to midnight - Brown/Larry King/ AC 360) even in their endless discussion raised these simple points.

1. Umer Farooq (25 years old, and the oldest of the group) and others were found in a house owned by Umer's Uncle.
2 . At he was found with his father (who was also arrested) and mother. who were also in the same house.
3. Father did not inform FBI, neither mother did - A BLATANT lie that they did not know where the son was (because they were in the same house in Pak with the son
4. Instead of "Innocent" the Father has known links to LeT
5. Farooq and others had $25,000+ in cash with them.

One can't even believe the junk and IGNORANCE CNN's expert and interviewer were showing it yesterday. All they have to do was to just check out Wikipedia or this NY times report:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/11/world ... quire.html

The arrests were made at a four-room home in a government housing complex belonging to an uncle of the eldest of the group, Umer Farooq, 25, according to Chief Anwar.

“We had tips from local people and work of field officers that some foreigners were residing in some area of the city,” Chief Anwar said. “We watched them for a day or so and then arrested them.”

Mr. Farooq’s parents were staying at the house at the time, and his father, Khalid, was arrested as well. The police chief said the elder Mr. Farooq knew his son and the other men were being hunted by the F.B.I. but had failed to inform the authorities. { Why can't Larry King ask one of those Virgina Imam - who was on the show - ask how come?}

His mother, Sabria Farooq, was interviewed Thursday at the house. She said she and her husband had emigrated to the United States 20 years ago from Sargodha and had returned in September to start a computer business, similar to the one they have in the Virginia suburbs close to Washington.

Mrs. Farooq, who was veiled and wearing a traditional shalwar kameez, said that the family had informed the F.B.I. of their concern that their son had fled to Pakistan, but she did not make it clear whether they knew Umer had arrived in Sargodha.

A team of F.B.I. investigators interviewed the five men in Sargodha on Thursday, Chief Anwar said.

....On Wednesday, a Pakistani official said that Khalid Farooq, the father of Umer, was believed to have ties to Jaish-e-Muhammad,

Other thing which was absolutely unbelievable was that for these experts , Headly, who was mentioned more than once, and in detail too (just like these 5 youths except that he was another brainwashed from Chicago), was just a kid born in Washington DC... never mentioning even the widely known connection of him with Paki terrorists

Absolutely shocking .

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Dec 2009 23:25

Were these five/six a part of plot for grabbing the Paki nukes? Their MO : computer business etc looks like not run of the mill Kasab type operators.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 Dec 2009 23:35

Amber G. wrote:
Yeah ... saw endless coverage on CNN (along with Interviews with Muslim leaders of the Virginia mosque , Muslim "chaplain" and terror experts) on how "normal US Muslim" youths went missing.. their families so worried, the Muslim leaders so patriotic that they informed FBI right away and yes, how our friends Paki's helped FBI by finding them in Pak

Other thing which was absolutely unbelievable was that for these experts , Headly, who was mentioned more than once, and in detail too (just like these 5 youths except that he was another brainwashed from Chicago), was just a kid born in Washington DC... never mentioning even the widely known connection of him with Paki terrorists

Absolutely shocking .

This is part of the shock therapy on the American public
Public opinion is being molded in America after 50 years of cold war politics.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 10 Dec 2009 23:36

This perople were planing kasab-2?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 10 Dec 2009 23:38

See my post and pgbhat's post..
CNN's lack of asking even the simple questions or doing simple home work is shocking... (Why not ask or find out - all 5/6 were in the same house - why or why the father did not inform FBI etc...)

Or missing even the basic known and important parts when their experts give detail information about Headley (as they repeatedly and shamefully did yesterday)

Don't know if Paki police is telling the truth ( I mean how much truth - we know they lie).

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 10 Dec 2009 23:47

This is part of the shock therapy on the American public
Public opinion is being molded in America after 50 years of cold war politics.

NOT really. They just want you you to think that some one is molding the public opinion by giving shock therapy.

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 10 Dec 2009 23:56

this could be disturbing , not sure the same would happen in India as well.

http://pkaffairs.com/playshow.asp?pageId=6600

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 11 Dec 2009 00:15

WSJ story also suggest that the house belonged to JeM activist (and Umer's uncle according to NYTimes story)

All of them -- students in their 20s from northern Virginia -- were arrested this week in the garrison town of Sargodha at the house of an activist of Jaish-e-Mohammed, an outlawed Pakistani militant outfit with known links to the Taliban and al Qaeda

.

from:
Americans Detained in Pakistan Found to Have al Qaeda Links
From this:

.Five young Americans detained in eastern Pakistan had developed contacts with al Qaeda operatives through the Internet and were on their way to North Waziristan to join a militant training camp, said a senior Pakistani intelligence official.
...The intelligence official said information gleaned from their laptop computers and other material recovered from the suspects established their links with the militant network operating from the lawless tribal region bordering Afghanistan.

He said the men came in contact with al Qaeda through its local operatives in Pakistan. Police have also seized some jihadist literature from the house where they were arrested.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 11 Dec 2009 00:16

What you mean by same would happen in India as well?

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 11 Dec 2009 00:20

the kind of treatment these guys get from the local admin ( only the part where the money gets taken out before the bodies ) , i trust people/admin are much more better in India

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Dec 2009 00:20

Looks like there is something rotten in Virginia. Even that Maj. Malik the Texas shooter attended that mosque over there. I recall there being a bunch of miscreants going to forest camps and practise jihad with paint ball guns etc in the 90s.

Maybe Rangudu might recall.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 11 Dec 2009 00:29

Virginia has large population of muslims from arab world as well as pakistan & bangladesh. If you remember Lee Boyd Malvo freeway shooting case. It took place mostly in maryland & virginia.

archan · Post by **archan** » 11 Dec 2009 00:31

Ananya wrote:this could be disturbing , not sure the same would happen in India as well.

http://pkaffairs.com/playshow.asp?pageId=6600

There are a few problems with your posts.
1) Not everyone is going to go to a paki site and watch a 30+ min. video to figure out what you mean.
2) Not everyone knows the language of the show.
3) What's your point? what do you mean by "not sure same would happen in India as well"? Human beings in all parts of world do crazy shameless deeds, do we need to wonder every time if that would happen in India?

To my mind, you are simply misusing posting rights on BRF.

For those who are confused what Ananya was pointing to: the show apparently starts with the host extremely sad about the fact that after a bomb blast many hospitals in Pakistan including the famous ones like those named after Jinnah et al. took off the clothes of female victims and gave their dead bodies to their male family members in naked state. To add to that, some military officer and politician when coming out of the hospital had a smirk on their faces, laughing about something.
Yes it is messed up. But what is not messed up about Pakistan?
Misuse of posting rights can lead to those rights being withheld. We give way too much leeway it seems.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 11 Dec 2009 00:37

^^^ Thankyou Archanji for clearly explaining the dos and donts on BRF.

NikhilB · Post by **NikhilB** » 11 Dec 2009 00:57

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... ized-Malik

This news - pakistan capturing 4 trucks loaded with Indian arms - is been doing rounds in paki media, though not yet appered in leading newspapers like Dawn etc. It is being seriously discussed on paki TV channels and talk shows also.

Clearly paki govt is making up this false for variety of reasons:
1. To get support from people and media for its notorious bombings and killinds of people in taliban area
2. To boose morale of its foot soliders that they are fighting to indian kufrs and not their muslim brothers
3. To malign India, To degrade its positive work in Afganisatan; why waste chance in blaming india?
4. To pressuarise india; and indeed Indian foreigh ministry will be stupid if we just release plain statements like "we deny this".

India needs to play its cards very carefully and shrewedly.If pakis keep on doing this then of course we will be taking the blame (they will keep on blaming, and we will keep on saying we deny, give evidence). I am sure there is not a heck of evidence in this allegation.

How can we blow up this dirty trick of pakis...If we play it well diplomatically, then we can achieve very good success.

First let us see what is "inherent weakness" in pakis blame game:
1. Foremost - they are ignoring real problem and blaming India, means problem will not get solved. good thing for us.
2. Secondly, the problem - read TTP - will get angry for India taking their credit of jihad..and hence fear of not getting due 72....even better for us.

So if we declar to pakis, that paki govt is doing this for above reasons, and if we help exploit the angry feelings of people who live in taliban area then there are very good chances of people revolting against the govt (read independence). This can even be exploited to split PA ethnically by actually showing evidence to PA fractureous sections of foot soliders of what reality - by showing pashtun/baloochi PA soliders that PA is killing your brothers, and govt is blaming india.

There might be even much better options to takle this, but we can not just say "we deny this, and there is no evidence". We need to recognise paki mentality before giving response...

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 11 Dec 2009 01:25

NikhilB, without going into any deep analysis, let me just point out that even the Paki foreign minister has said Rehman Malik is just blowing hot air.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2009_pg1_5

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 11 Dec 2009 02:04

NYTimes report posted by Amber G. wrote: The police identified the others arrested in Sargodha as Ramy Zamzam, 22, a dental student of Egyptian background at Howard University, who was described as a sort of “ringleader”; Waqar Khan, of Pakistani background, who was reported to have family connections in Karachi; Ahmad A. Mini, 20, born in Eritirea; and Aman Hassan Yemer, 18, a native Ethiopian.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 11 Dec 2009 02:22

Ananya wrote:this could be disturbing , not sure the same would happen in India as well.

http://pkaffairs.com/playshow.asp?pageId=6600

Mubashir Luqman is the same idiot who got slapped by Mr. Bugti a few days ago for his sheer idiocy and pakiness. This is the same low IQ chap who was talking about the "dalit past of AR Rehman making him convert to islam" story by concocting a false incident.

He is a classic RAPE, and a ghatiya actor and insaan - just like Jahil Hamid. Within two minutes one can make out that he is overacting by pretending to be sad at the events.

What a sorry excuse for a human being.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 11 Dec 2009 02:29

That claim by Rehman malik of 4 indian trucks loaded with arms and ammo intercepted by pakistan is an attempt by the Civilian Administration there to do an == with the pak fauj, and in the process try and shame them.

The pak fauj via its TV news mouthpieces have been selling the idea that the civilians are not sensitive to the war being fought by the Pak Fauj, and are therefore anti-pakistan.

The civil adminstration responds by making such outrageous claims, so that:
1. Either the pak fauj has to step back and say that the evidence is not enough,
2. Or the pak fauj has to do something about this "concrete" evidence.

We all know how capable the pak fauj is, and qureshi's statement settles the issue for now.

Zardari and Rehman Malik are riding a mad hyena here, and are alive only because massa is providing them protection.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 11 Dec 2009 03:02

Pgbhat - From Newsweek and other reliable sources (More to come in their story)

Rami zamzam is also the president of the D.C. council of the Muslim Students Association (MSA).

The group (or at least a few) went to Dar Al-Hijrah mosque, in a Virginia (suburb of Washington) the same attended by Maj. Nidal Hasan ( Fort Hood shooter). and once home of Anwar al-Awlaki, (was friend of at least two of the 9/11 hijackers. U.S). Some of the group were on US intelligence radar.

The house owner and Umer's chacha is known JeM terrorist.

One person had Swedish passport (

Per Newsweek's Taliban sources ( !) that " more than one of of the suspects originally spent time in Al Qaeda's camps but quit the Afghan-Pakistan border area after Pakistan's Army began its recent offensive against the Taliban."

Interesting indeed!

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 11 Dec 2009 03:10

arun wrote:Colonel plays out the “Jihad fi Sabilillah” or “Jihad in the path of Allah” part of motto of “ Iman, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabilillah” of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and gets a court martial for his troubles.

Is it halal in an Islamic Republic for the Government to penalise an individual for following the exhortations of a motto on Jihad :

Court martial of colonel, two others from tomorrow

By Our Monitoring Desk Submitted 9 hrs 55 mins ago

Court-martial of a military officer and two civilians, who went missing in Rawalpindi a few months back, will start on Friday (tomorrow) on charges of spying and inciting army personnel to get involved in terrorist acts, reported BBC on Wednesday.

Colonel Shahid Bashir, a former Air Force pilot and now an advocate Nadeem Ahmad Shah, and Awais Ali Khan, an Engineer, were arrested by a military intelligence agency in Rawalpindi in May this year. …………………..

Quoting myself from page 43

One thing the PA must do, no matter what choice they make is re-establish control over their own ranks. They are *thoroughly* penetrated, and its a basic threat to their security and cohesion. Even a break with America will not be enough to repair that problem. The PA is going to have to purge its own ranks of committed jihadi minded fellows

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Dec 2009 03:18

how does a Colonel get to be a former Air Force pilot in the Pakistani system?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Dec 2009 03:20

Penetration implies that there is a small number of bad elements while the rest is not. However in TSPA case the whole lot has been transformed into a jihadi force after Zia's Islamization. Kiyani was supposed to be the last non-jihadi graduate. All officers after his batch are supposed to be after the motto got changed.

So rooting out jihadi elements wont stop the transformation. It has to be disbanded and re-constituted.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Dec 2009 03:34

ramana wrote: So rooting out jihadi elements wont stop the transformation. It has to be disbanded and re-constituted.

the same prescription applies to the nation-state as well