Telangana Monitor

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 12 Dec 2009 09:36

In MaunaVrata, is my advice. Of course, just a suggestion...

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 12 Dec 2009 09:49

RaviBg wrote:
Manny wrote: No..as per my logic, a case can be made (either way) for all border towns. Its not so far fetched and "LAUGHABLE "
If you look between Hosur and Bangalore, the places are Begur, Bommasandra, yadavanahalli, Attibele and Hosur. Even the name Hosuru is kannada name. And you are telling me Bangalore was a tamil majority place?

Please post source which lists Bangalore as a Tamil majority place and was handed over to karnataka because it had no big city to support your claim!!

So if a name like "Hosuru is part of Tamilnadu..why is it far fetched for Bangaluru to be part of Tamilnadu"?

{Manny: Please read above. Stop derailing the thread, please. }

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 Dec 2009 10:02

Manny wrote:
RaviBg wrote:So if a name like "Hosuru is part of Tamilnadu..why is it far fetched for Bangaluru to be part of Tamilnadu"?

Manny, you started this exchange, so please provide sources for your claim that Bangalore and Trivandrum were handed off to Karnataka and Kerala because "they had no big cities". Otherwise, it is better to end the argument.

vina · Post by **vina** » 12 Dec 2009 10:05

Kanya Kumari , Pala kaad ,Tamil Nadu, Malloostan. Thiru Anantha Puram,Thiruvithamkoor ("Travancore" to the illiterates) The Malloo spoken there is core Malloo, and Thiru Anantha Puram

Let us see what is "real" and what was "New" / "Maya"

Kanya Kumari --> Real

Pala Kaad-- > Real

Thiru Anantha Puram --> Real

The follow are as real as Mt Gopalan Kutty aka False.

Maloostan /Kerala --> Didnt exist before states re org committee. My folks always always could never that. It is always "Nam Naadu" or Travancore, Kochi and Malabar.

Tamil Nadu --> Again fiction . Didnt exist before state re org committe..

What is real is the same same in both Tamil and Malayalam. The languages in many respects are simply too close to be splitting such hairs.

Case in point. Thiruvithamkoor .. It would split as Thiru -- (Short for Vishnu ,also used as the sanskrit equivalent of Shri in Tamil) in Mallu and Tamil, itham ( can take on many meanings .. place, "with" as in possesing here I would guess with would make most sense) and Oor ( town/city / in most south indian languages). So basically The Place with Vishnu .. aka Vishnu's Place.

As for the kingdom, Nagar Koil and other associated places, including the original capital, Padmanabhapuram are very very very mixed..

But more pressing matters need your attention.

Pingrezi has been effectively panned.. Including in Yell Cee Yea dhaaga!

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 12 Dec 2009 10:13

Uh oh, the Su-s are flying cap now, I predict JF-17s masquerading as fighters will get shot down like flies drunk on RAID.

But seriously this thread will attract the usual suspects and will result in lot of ululations and finally some bans and thread lock.

Ofcourse we can use it to track bus improvements, voluntary organ donation, fitness competitions such as rock throwing and "who will win the race, the over weight pandu or the cretin who just burnt down the bus"

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 12 Dec 2009 10:24

Manny wrote:No, it shows how far Madras stretched over and what they had to settle for at the time of independence and how peacefully they settled the issue without bigotry and supremacy.

At the time of Independence even Bombay province spanned across present-day Maharashtra, Gujarat, and Sindh. Both of these provinces reflect points of expansion for the British presidencies of Bombay and Madras.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 Dec 2009 10:28

so all these regions were majority english ones by the same logic ?

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 12 Dec 2009 10:31

Manny wrote:Can you show me a statistic or proof that Bangalore was majority Kanada speaking? IF the states were formed based on linguistic, that must be easy to come by.

classic ..... burden of proof is on you sire..... you made the claim.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 Dec 2009 10:36

Manny wrote:
pgbhat wrote:Again I am asking statistics you are talking maps.
Can you show me a statistic or proof that Bangalore was majority Kanada speaking? IF the states were formed based on linguistic, that must be easy to come by. After all states were formed on lingustic basis and not based on old Kingdoms.

You made the following assertion:

Manny wrote:When India decided on States based on languages, Bangalore and Trivandrum came under Tamilnadu. Since Karnataka and Kerala was left with no big cities, Tamilnadu had to give up Bangalore to Karnataka and Trivandrum to Kerala and to compensate Tamilnadu, A good portion of South Andhra was given to Tamilnadu.

Please provide proof of the same. I have already showed you the names of places in and around Bangalore. The old temples of Bangalore ( Bull temple, Gavi Gangadareshwara temple, Subramanya temple in Sajjan Rao circle etc) all have inscriptions in kannada. All place names are in kannada. Gavi Gangadhareshwara temple is one of the oldest temples. There are old kannada inscriptions in many old temples in Bangalore, but none in Tamil.

Please back up your claims with proof or do a downhill skiing.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 12 Dec 2009 10:38

Manny wrote:
pgbhat wrote:Again I am asking statistics you are talking maps.
Can you show me a statistic or proof that Bangalore was majority Kanada speaking? IF the states were formed based on linguistic, that must be easy to come by. After all states were formed on lingustic basis and not based on old Kingdoms.

vina · Post by **vina** » 12 Dec 2009 10:38

My family has been living in Bangalore since 1940s and no one remembers Bangalore being a tamil majority place. It was even more kannadiga dominated than present. The tamil influx began only after 1947 when the PSUs started.

Well, if your roots go back that far, you would know that Bangalore of old was really like "twin cities".. The old "Indian" part and the hoity toity "Inglish" Cantonment part. Tamil presence in Bangalore goes back a long long way, along with the times when there was a cantonment in Bangalore. Just drive along Ulsoor lake and you can see a huge harding of the MEG which says some 17** or so , roughly close to 225+ years (I dont remember correctly, but will let you know next time I visit my grandma and look). The East India Company's Madras regiments would have had a strong base. In fact in the war with Tipu, it was the Madras Regiments that took him down ..Tipu and Hyder Ali came from North Arcot before taking over Mysore.

Yeah, Bangalore grew, and it attracted people from all over the surrounding places. The Tamils from North & South Arcot, the telugus from Rayalseema and of course the Kannada speakers from all over the Mysore Kingdom of which Bangalore was a part.

That trend continues today. Sure more people came when Bangalore took off economically after independence. They came from everywhere.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Dec 2009 10:39

ramana wrote:X-post...
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 74#p787574

There wont be any re-drawing for the ramifications are too much.

I am quoting your post again after I spoke to few friends from the Andhra. (it is no point to call AP). The emotions against PC in the region is running high. I am not born in 1950s and I do not know if the emotions against Madras state existed at that time at all or not. Folks are asking to close down Telugu ganga beyond Rayalaseema that takes Krishna water to Chennai as a backlash against PC's midnight declaration.

What is INC really achieving by rising the tempers to this level? Are you sure about the bolded part?

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 12 Dec 2009 10:41

Looks like Khammam is out of Telengana.

For now, Telengana = Whole Telengana - Greater Hyderabad - Khammam

‘Jai Khammam’ banners draw attention
http://www.hindu.com/2009/12/12/stories ... 470700.htm

Special Correspondent

KHAMMAM: It is ‘Jai Khammam’ here. Banners and flex posters bearing Jai Khammam slogan appeared in many of the towns and villages in the district on Friday.

Anonymous callers, who claimed to have put up the banners, said Khammam cannot be part of either Telangana or Andhra.

Though the district was technically part of Telangana, places such as Bhadrachalam, Sathupalli and Madhira had a cultural identity of their own. Khammam should be considered for grant of separate statehood, they said. Jai Khammam banners surfaced at all vantage points in the town.

Meanwhile, some advocates staged a demonstration in front of the court demanding the Centre to leave the unified Andhra Pradesh intact.

Jamalapuram Narayanarao, Congress legal cell president M. Appa Rao, (TDP legal cell), Inturi Naheswara Rao, Ch. Koteswra Rao, Katamneni Ramesh and Kondapalli Uttam Kumar took part in the demonstration. Advocates had a verbal confrontation with TRS activists who staged a similar demonstration in the vicinity.

vina · Post by **vina** » 12 Dec 2009 10:41

Bangalore was majority Kanada speaking

That is true. It would have been majority Kannada speaking especially the "City" part. However, I would think the Cantt areas would have had predominantly Tamil speakers , along with the strong population of Urdu speaking Muslims.

Look around to see where the Tamils even today are concentrated. Austin Town,Indira Nagar,Ulsoor, Cox Town, Frazer Town etc etc all the old Cantt areas.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 12 Dec 2009 10:42

Lingustic map

See how trivandrum, Kanyakumari, Nagerkoil and Bangalore is Tamil. So if states were based on Lingustics, this should have been the state partition. No?

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Dec 2009 10:44

ShyamSP wrote:Looks like Khammam is out of Telengana.

For now, Telengana = Whole Telengana - Greater Hyderabad - Khammam

‘Jai Khammam’ banners draw attention
http://www.hindu.com/2009/12/12/stories ... 470700.htm

Special Correspondent

KHAMMAM: It is ‘Jai Khammam’ here. Banners and flex posters bearing Jai Khammam slogan appeared in many of the towns and villages in the district on Friday.

Anonymous callers, who claimed to have put up the banners, said Khammam cannot be part of either Telangana or Andhra.

Though the district was technically part of Telangana, places such as Bhadrachalam, Sathupalli and Madhira had a cultural identity of their own. Khammam should be considered for grant of separate statehood, they said. Jai Khammam banners surfaced at all vantage points in the town.

Meanwhile, some advocates staged a demonstration in front of the court demanding the Centre to leave the unified Andhra Pradesh intact.

Jamalapuram Narayanarao, Congress legal cell president M. Appa Rao, (TDP legal cell), Inturi Naheswara Rao, Ch. Koteswra Rao, Katamneni Ramesh and Kondapalli Uttam Kumar took part in the demonstration. Advocates had a verbal confrontation with TRS activists who staged a similar demonstration in the vicinity.

This is expected. Fissures inside Telangana tent is expected if they delay the Telangana creation. Khammam is a stone throw from Krishna district and their relations with Andhra are toomuch to be ignored.

Did you talk to someone home? There seems to be anger against PC in Rayalseema?

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Dec 2009 10:47

^^^
I disagree with that map. Madras is Telugu and it's name Chennapatnam is actually Telugu name and being fashionably called as Chennai now. Berhampur city/district is Telugu too and PVNR won hands down there.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 12 Dec 2009 11:08

Manny wrote:
See how trivandrum, Kanyakumari, Nagerkoil and Bangalore is Tamil. So if states were based on Lingustics, this should have been the state partition. No?

This is the madras presidency under the British. Anything British cannot be taken authentic

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 12 Dec 2009 11:13

vina wrote:
Look around to see where the Tamils even today are concentrated. Austin Town,Indira Nagar,Ulsoor, Cox Town, Frazer Town etc etc all the old Cantt areas.

British created cantonment and British army from the native regiments settled in those area and even now all the minorities and modern Bangalore are from that area.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 12 Dec 2009 11:15

[deleted]

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 12 Dec 2009 11:25

Muppalla wrote:There seems to be anger against PC in Rayalseema?

They closed water gates for water going to Tamilnadu to show anger against PC comments.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 12 Dec 2009 11:32

Manny wrote:Lingustic map
See how trivandrum, Kanyakumari, Nagerkoil and Bangalore is Tamil. So if states were based on Lingustics, this should have been the state partition. No?

From what I understand large parts of the original travancore state with a significant tamil speaking population became part of tamil nadu when Kerala was formed. What was left and became the current trivandrum district is definitely not a tamil majority district, nor is the city itself tamil majority.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 Dec 2009 11:33

There are no recorded history of tamils being majority in and around Bangalore. No place names in tamil, no inscriptions, no records, nothing to indicate they were the majority in Bangalore either at time of independence or before.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 Dec 2009 11:36

Bade wrote:From what I understand large parts of the original travancore state with a significant tamil speaking population became part of tamil nadu when Kerala was formed. What was left and became the current trivandrum district is definitely not a tamil majority district, nor is the city itself tamil majority.

Bade, there is no use arguing with him. He has some notion in his head, and he will stick to it in the absence of any proof. Nothing to back up his claims that Bangalore and Trivandrum had majority tamil population at time of independence, or that they were given to Karnataka and kerala because they had no big cities!! In fact, that is a new argument that I am hearing for the first time, as there was no requirement for each state formed to have a major city

debadutta · Post by **debadutta** » 12 Dec 2009 11:36

There are advantages to having smaller states . More leaders like KCR can become CM

And the pie will be divided amongst several crooks instead of just a few!
If GOI really wanted to deal with the Telengana issue properly they could have waited for some time or may be set up a state re organization commission for looking at this issue in detail.
When you give in to one person , KCR in this case, a lot of others will definitely try to emulate him.
On a positive note , if there are new states, then i think that there will be some economic development in terms of building developing a new state capital. May be some of the learned members can share their views as to how it worked out for jharkhand, uttaranchal and chattisgarh.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Dec 2009 11:36

ShyamSP wrote:
Muppalla wrote:There seems to be anger against PC in Rayalseema?
They closed water gates for water going to Tamilnadu to show anger against PC comments.

Thank you.

I am searching for the news and not fall for rumors. I got is from the Telugu news paper.

http://www.andhrajyothy.com/

See the headlines.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 12 Dec 2009 11:38

Thanks to "Sambar SOB" * Chidambaram comments, protesters are closing water gates for water going to Tamilnadu.

* Those are Protesters' words not mine. Translation to English is mine

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 12 Dec 2009 12:51

Ranganath Misra report is next powder keg

http://www.asianage.com/presentation/le ... r-keg.aspx

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 12 Dec 2009 13:05

Coastal and Rayalseema areas are shutdown for second day.

Protests intensity increased. Violence is notched up. Ministers started resigning. Hunger strikes everywhere.

Looks like AP government collapsed and is going for President rule and elections.

debadutta · Post by **debadutta** » 12 Dec 2009 13:11

Muppalla wrote:^^^
I disagree with that map. Madras is Telugu and it's name Chennapatnam is actually Telugu name and being fashionably called as Chennai now. Berhampur city/district is Telugu too and PVNR won hands down there.

Do not know about other areas, but as far as Berhampur is concerned, it's still a Odiya majority city/district. And PVNR won because he was the PM then plus Berhampur used to be a Congress stronghold.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 12 Dec 2009 13:15

The rumour in the power corridors is that the Congress caved in after it was assured that the TRS would merge with the Congress later.

The Congress is keen to ensure that its main rival, the Telugu Desam, is wiped out from Telangana and confined to the other two regions.

http://news.rediff.com/column/2009/dec/ ... -issue.htm

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 12 Dec 2009 13:22

Bade wrote:
Manny wrote:Lingustic map
See how trivandrum, Kanyakumari, Nagerkoil and Bangalore is Tamil. So if states were based on Lingustics, this should have been the state partition. No?
From what I understand large parts of the original travancore state with a significant tamil speaking population became part of tamil nadu when Kerala was formed. What was left and became the current trivandrum district is definitely not a tamil majority district, nor is the city itself tamil majority.

Are these the people who are called Putters?

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 12 Dec 2009 13:25

debadutta wrote:
Muppalla wrote:^^^
I disagree with that map. Madras is Telugu and it's name Chennapatnam is actually Telugu name and being fashionably called as Chennai now. Berhampur city/district is Telugu too and PVNR won hands down there.
Do not know about other areas, but as far as Berhampur is concerned, it's still a Odiya majority city/district. And PVNR won because he was the PM then plus Berhampur used to be a Congress stronghold.

It is Ganjam district in Orissa that is Telugu majority (65% I think). There was district delineations I need to look for latest demographics

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 12 Dec 2009 13:27

Acharya wrote:
Manny wrote:
See how trivandrum, Kanyakumari, Nagerkoil and Bangalore is Tamil. So if states were based on Lingustics, this should have been the state partition. No?
This is the madras presidency under the British. Anything British cannot be taken authentic

British India is an artificial construct no doubt.

But if one went back into history, then there was nothing similar to the political India of today.

A real conundrum.

It matters not who was where and how they came there.

What is important today is that the subnationalism and regionalism has to be stemmed since it will only weaken us further.

I have no answer except that it worries me no end.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 12 Dec 2009 13:49

gandharva wrote:
What is important today is that the subnationalism and regionalism has to be stemmed since it will only weaken us further.
I don't understand why Abrahamic psyche perceives difference as a threat?.

Are you meaning I am Abrahamic and so I should not perceive India as my country and want it united?

Come man, come clean. Don't talk in riddles!

Don't get personal. I have also contributed enough I presume to the country's oneness! I may not wax eloquence on Indicism since the silver filigree of the past does not excite. I am a mere realist. I live in the present! The poverty, corruption, lack of defence of our borders, division into small fragments of my great country is what bothers. But glorious past cannot help! So!

Those who are incapable of rising from the depths, to my mind, are those who draw solace from the glorious past! Look to the present to challenge the glorious past! Better it! That is the challenge!

I am sure you must have done more!

As Kalidasa wrote:

Look to this Day
For in its brief space
Lies the Verities and Realities of Existence.

Taught in an Abrahamic school!

Good that you deleted that post, but it is in my quote.

Learn to stand up for what you write!

Be a man!

In my profession that was the first lesson taught!

debadutta · Post by **debadutta** » 12 Dec 2009 14:07

It is Ganjam district in Orissa that is Telugu majority (65% I think). There was district delineations I need to look for latest demographics

Do not know abt the district as such. like you said, it's been divided in to multiple districts now. I think you are talking abt. the new gajapati district which has a substantial telugu population. As per Hindu it's a 30(telugu) / 70 (Odiya) split.
http://www.hindu.com/2007/01/15/stories ... 490200.htm

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 12 Dec 2009 14:17

Gentlemen and Ladies,

This is an emotional issue.

There are pros and cons and none can be taken as the Gospel Truth.

While opinions may vary can we be civil and with the facts?

There are reports of transgressions.

Let us not have to lock the thread.

Thank you!

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 12 Dec 2009 14:21

{Moderately Moderated Note: Thread cleanup done. End of the discussion on TN-Kerala (un)historical issues, Tooth Fairy stories and British-ruled provinces, please.}

Indians have basically voted in the notion of Panchayati Raj, local self-government with strong devolution of powers. The population is huge and the infrastructure is bad. So there are strong arguments for increasing the number of states to better represent local interests. Also, as mentioned by someone, why not share the baksheesh a bit better instead of burdening just a few State Mantris? Present state governments are not exactly models of effective government, and in many states, the State Govt. is seen as being not much better than the British colonial entity in terms of responding to the people's needs.

But I have not understood the basic rationale behind the Telangana movement. I used to think it was a reaction to the Hyderabad-centric AP megaBaksheeshocracy that ignored starving rural AP, but now it looks like Telangana INCLUDES Hyderabad. Or could include it.

So how can "Telangana" be different from Andhra? What else is there in Andhra than Telungu (or Urdu)?

WHY did the Centre decide on this knee-jerk decision, after successfully rejecting a long and violent movement in the 1970s?

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 12 Dec 2009 15:15

Where as we can not deny there are regional asparations we need to look into whole picture before taking any decision. For example what about the water sharing between Telangana and remainig AP State(s). All people are talking about Hyderabad but no one talks about the problem of water sharing. From what KCR said time and again there is going to be big big problems with that. No one in Telangana is going to allow what other Areas of AP are getting now. Then see what will happen.

One more news is some advocates have already started Telangana Navanirmana Sena. Its main aim seems to attack who ever opposes Telangana in Hyderabad. So we may see attacks on Andra people of Hyderabad. Then it will be horrible to imagine.

Division bases on Consenses etc may be good but this division of AP is bases of hate. If and when it talks place it will lead to further fights amoung Telugu people.

One more bad thing now every one is saying in AP is that the Chidambaram and Moily have conspired to divide AP so that Karnataka and TN people have greater power as Telugu people are divided and will be busy in fighting amoung themselves.

It is now made clear by AP Cheif Minister that he was not taken into confidence before the paln for division of the State is made public. It is most likly be true and gives a very bad taste in our mouth. AP people of all the areas know our CM as a very senior and well respected person in all sections of the polity. If this is the way Chidambaram treated our CM it only speaks amount the head strongness the TN politicians aquired in the last 6 years.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 12 Dec 2009 15:34

What ? The center makes a unilateral decision about carving a seperate state without even informing the CM concerned ? Isnt this precise Delhi congress arrogance that culminated in the formation of TDP ? But the Andhra people should not complain.For the congress high command, AP congress never was more than a local satrap whom they never treated with any respect.But inspite of that, Andhras are the ones who consistantly bought congress to power again and again both in state and center. As you sow so shall you reap . I have no sympathy for AP people frankly. I am pretty much sure, if elections are held some time later, the shameless Andhras will again vote for congress. No wonder the congress took Andhras for granted.