Telangana Monitor

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 13 Dec 2009 19:03

Lawyers for speedy process to form separate state of Telangana

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_la ... na_1323277

Smaller states will ensure better governance: Experts
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_sm ... ts_1322771

Comments: THe best way forward is to bring both sides together to the table and making an understanding among them in their bargains. It is better to set up a committee from both sides to talk, discuss and solve their own issues within Andhra. It is also good to bring together leaders across the political parties and from both regions to talk and work out what is next and best for both sides.

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » 13 Dec 2009 19:33

I think KCR will be bought off for a temporary suspension of agitation. The stakes are too high for people who are invested in and around Hyderabad. KCR as always will be game for a decent rate for his silence. KCR has no public support, didn't win many elections for his party but his USP is the Nuisance value.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 13 Dec 2009 19:58

brihaspati wrote: This division is not aimed just at empowering the centre at the cost of the regions. It is also about setting up the dynasty as the sole focus of national unity. To create the illusion that the only entity capable of resolving conflicts between such and so many disparate groups is the "family" and the individual. You can notice it in the various statements coming out of the AP imbroglio - especially in the remarks from the pro-division factions about the "gratitude" and the crucial roleplaying expected of the "family".

Brihaspatiji,
When an entity is created powerful, without proper checks and balances, then such an entity always is prone to be hijacked by elements which should not. Therefore, diffused power centers are crucial in preventing absolute power corrupting absolutely. Absolute power centers are necessary when dealing with external, and there empowerment should be done fully. But the situation is topsy turvy, where the empowered power center exhibits machismo when dealing in domestic affairs between individual components, while acting weak to external threats and dealings.

On a different note, states have taken the division on language basis way too seriously. Right from the get go, the formation of states were although done on basis of language it was meant to be restrictive in its outlook. It had the facade of empowerment, but in reality it ensured the restrictiveness of the regions. Regions turned inward looking and lost the earlier practices of spreading and sharing of knowledge and culture.
If the language was the real and sole criteria, Madhya Pradesh, Bihar, Uttar pradesh, Delhi and other states should have been under a single entity called say "Hindi Pradesh".
Historically, people have co-existed under various rulers without turning inward by shutting down the doors to knowledge, culture from other sources. When powers that be took over in the States, they clamored and encouraged people to become restrictive in the their thoughts and acts.
For example, Odissi, is most likely practiced only by people belonging to one state. Why it did not spread to other regions of the country? Because, people were groomed to be restrictive in their outlook and resist anything that is not invented here and took the lingustic basis way too seriously. Contrast that to easy transmission of Thyagaraj Kritis, Purandara's outpourings reaching across a large section without any conciousness of the language barriers.
The restrictiveness has created a mind set, where it is considered ok to restrict water, reconstruct vehicles to and from a different region. This restrictiveness furthers as stopping screening of movies, blacking out channels on cable televisions from different regions, all these actions are pointers to potential darwin award winners.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 13 Dec 2009 20:19

ShyamSP wrote:
enqyoob wrote:There is a quote in the Indian Express today from Chandrasekhara Rao where he claims that Hyderabad was always in Telangana, not in Andhra. How come? Wasn't Hyderabad, for some x00 years until 1947 an Islamic Sultanate with Razakars/other Darwin Award Aspirants running amok etc? So Telangana== Islamic Sultanate?

Question from ignorance: What does "Andhra" mean and why is a "Telangana" needed separate from that? This makes no sense at all to me from non-Telugu pov. Will someone pls explain the roots of this?

Before Islamic rule, ancient Andhra encompases Godavari-Krishna delta area of Maharastra, Karnataka, AP (See Satavanhana rule from Pratisthana to Amaravati. See Andhra history thread also). For ancient Telugus, Andhra was current-day Telengana and four krishna-Godavari Coastal districts.

Proper Andhra is Telengana. Unfortunately current Telengana elites don't want to use that Andhra word as it means Andhra state (Coastal districts and Rayalaseema) in last 60 years and some times it just mean Coastal AP. n Ancient times much of Rayalaseema and Uttar Andhra areas are not part of ancient Andhra kingdoms till later times. That is the power of Dhimmitude in Telengana resulting in denying their own past.

In Ancient times, core of Andhra = current Telengana area
In modern times core of Andhra = Coastal AP (esp, Guntur, Krishna, East and West Godavari districts).

Current day AP is shaped by Eastern Chalukyas followed by Kakatiyas. Deccan Sultans took ancient Andhra made it to now Telengana after independence.

Hope that clarifies.

Shathavahasa kings regularly has a title Dakshinapadhapathi. Their rule is not limited to some portion of Andra Pradesh. Their Capaital was Dhanyakatakam which is now called as Dharanikota. I think it is in Guntur Districk of AP. Andra Kings are the only kings who has defeated and rules a mojor north indian kingdom when they defeated Susharma of of Magadha Empire and crowned them selves as rulers of that kingdom. So to say that Andra's are limited to one portion of AP not correct. They had rules central and westeren indian areas also for a long long time. Their wars with Saka's are well know eventhogh they have marital relationships with them. In fact for a some time they ruled from Ujjain. It is belived that HalaSri Shatawahana who wrote Gadhsapthasathi ruled from there. Fall of Ujjain and its recapture taken place many times. Shatakarni (or is simikha?) took it from sunga king Agnimithra. Telangana was always a part of Andra rule till it fallen to Muslims. Even Kakathiya Kingdom was recaptured from Muslims by Telugus within a short time of its fall. It is well know that Harihara and Bukka Raya's are servents of Kakathiya Kings and they have founded Vijayanagara Kingdom after they were recoverted from Islam to Hindu faith by Vidyaranya Swamy.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 13 Dec 2009 20:25

Muppalla wrote:225 legislators will oppose Andhra division: Rajagopal

Congress MP from Vijayawada L. Rajagopal said Sunday that 225 Andhra Pradesh legislators would oppose the resolution to bifurcate the state for Telangana if the motion is put to vote in the state assembly.

Stating that the decision to initiate the process for formation of a separate state was taken by the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government and not by the Congress leadership{this is a crappy statement and what does he mean by that}, he demanded that the resolution be moved in the assembly and members be allowed to cast their vote according to their conscience.

'In the 294-member assembly, 225 members will oppose the resolution,' Rajagopal asserted while addressing a news conference here.
{I don't believe it and it could be just hot air}

The industrialist MP claimed that 50 legislators from Telangana besides 175 from Andhra and Rayalaseema regions would vote against the resolution.

This was Rajagopal's first public appearance after he submitted his resignation to the speaker three days ago.

He also announced his plans to launch a hunger strike in Hyderabad to oppose the proposed formation of Telangana state.

Rajagopal, one of the richest politicians in the country, said there would be a by-election to his Lok Sabha constituency as he had submitted his resignation and added that he would not contest again.

'I have submitted my resignation letter to the speaker and I can't disclose what transpired between me and the speaker as I am bound by the constitution,' he said.

Rajagopal also requested the Congress leadership to field a candidate from Telangana region in the by-elections to prove that people wanted to keep the state united.

Rajagopal denied that he was opposing formation of a separate Telangana as his Lanco Group of industries had made huge investments in Hyderabad.

'Now I have decided to join the movement (against division of the state). Hyderabad (which is proposed to be the capital of Telangana, when created) is the mother and the 22 districts of Andhra Pradesh are her children. We will not betray our mother,' he said.

Do not underestimate this man. This man is correct to say that the resolution for the division of the state will not pass. Telangana MLAs are some 117 in a 294 number house. Out of that Hyderabad MLA's may not be willing to vote for saparate state unless they are given a union territory status.

ravit · Post by **ravit** » 13 Dec 2009 20:46

Muppalla wrote:225 legislators will oppose Andhra division: Rajagopal

He is advertising the following song with "Jai United Andhra" motto in all news telugu channels from today evening. No idea on how this would, if any, affect people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjjcJH8OEBU

He is supposed to start a fast in Hyderabad from tomorrow. 4 of his followers who reached Hyderabad are already arrested. I am guessing he would be arrested immediately after he lands in Hyderabad airport tomorrow.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 13 Dec 2009 21:04

ravit wrote:225 legislators will oppose Andhra division: Rajagopal

He is advertising the following song with "Jai United Andhra" motto in all news telugu channels from today evening. No idea on how this would, if any, affect people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjjcJH8OEBU

He is supposed to start a fast in Hyderabad from tomorrow. 4 of his followers who reached Hyderabad are already arrested. I am guessing he would be arrested immediately after he lands in Hyderabad airport tomorrow.

225 mlas is exaggerated figure. But he may be positioning himself as CM of a new party/coalition that comprizes of all MLAs from TDP, INC and PRP from non-Telangana regions along with some Telangana MLAs. Moneywise they are capable. Jagan may be behind this idea as well. Jagan types will stay back in INC but will just say that they can't control emotion.

I am more interested in his stupid ( may be not?) statement that the state division is the ploy of UPA government and not that of INC leadership.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 13 Dec 2009 22:52

Hyderabad should not become part of Telungana. The ones who wants to break the state should not be rewarded by giving this beautiful city to them. If telungana cannot live with the rest of Andhra. They can take their marbles and go home. But Hyderabad should be part of Andhra!

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 13 Dec 2009 23:38

If telungana cannot live with the rest of Andhra. They can take their marbles and go home.

They are already at home dude. Hyderabad is 200 kms inside the borders of Telangana.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Dec 2009 23:40

Manny wrote:Hyderabad should not become part of Telungana. The ones who wants to break the state should not be rewarded by giving this beautiful city to them. If telungana cannot live with the rest of Andhra. They can take their marbles and go home. But Hyderabad should be part of Andhra!

How can this happen in a contiguous manner? If RangaReddy, Mahbubnagar , Khamama and Nalgonda secede to Andhra this has viability.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 14 Dec 2009 00:06

When talking about the issue of smaller states and governance, the usual cases that are discussed are Jharkhand and Chattisgarh. But these are also states that are bearing the brunt of the naxals activities, with their growth in strength coinciding with the creation of these states. Even so, Chattisgarh and even Jharkhand have arguably done better in economic terms since their separation and Chattisgarh has done better politically as well. Furthermore, when a radical change happens, it takes some time to reach a new equilibrium. Thus, while Jharkhand is a political mess as of now, what one has to look at is how things are several years from now. Lastly, the third state which was created at the same time, Uttarakhand, is ignored in these discussions. By all accounts, Uttarakhand is better off as a separate state.

The best examples of how smaller states have done better than the whole, particularly when there are gross differences between regions of the larger state, is the split of Punjab into the current Punjab, Haryana and Himachal. All three states did better after than before the split. In particular, the more backward areas that went on to form Haryana and Himachal have done spectacularly well. Haryana in economic terms and Himachal in human development terms.

So let's not use selective evidence. Analyze the cases of Jharkhand and Chattisgarh. But don't ignore the other cases.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 14 Dec 2009 00:33

ramana wrote:
Manny wrote:Hyderabad should not become part of Telungana. The ones who wants to break the state should not be rewarded by giving this beautiful city to them. If telungana cannot live with the rest of Andhra. They can take their marbles and go home. But Hyderabad should be part of Andhra!

How can this happen in a contiguous manner? If RangaReddy, Mahbubnagar , Khamama and Nalgonda secede to Andhra this has viability.

They just need a stretch of road connection along Srisailam Hwy from South or Roadway to Guntur via Vijayawada Hwy from the east of Greater Hyderabad which itself is now stretched by 40-70 Kms from Older Hyderabad.

Khammam is like Krishna so can be out of Telengana. Tribal strip wants to be with UttarAndhra tribal strip (Infact they want separate Tribal strip state)

Nalgonda's Takleaf is Nargajuna sagar Right canal water. Also they have presence of communists who are for United Andhra.

Mahabubnagar didn't have Telengana issue. That was reason KCR insisted on running from that MP seat to bring Telengana influence.

That brings another point. Telengana itself is like mini AP - South-West with respect to Hyderabad is like Rayalaseema, South-East/East is like Coastal, North is like Telengana.

With enough political manipulation, another slicing and dicing can be done.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 14 Dec 2009 00:50

Muppalla wrote: I am more interested in his stupid ( may be not?) statement that the state division is the ploy of UPA government and not that of INC leadership.

When it smells like a rat, probably it is.

Businessman-Politician is always a suspect, esp industrial variety which needs to keep government in good humor and when a squeeze from Govt can result in squeak.

Proxies want to take political space. Congress wan to put people to choose between Congress and Congress proxies sidelining all others.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 14 Dec 2009 01:12

Is there an underlying thought that if Hyderabad goes to Telangana, then Hyderabad will suffer in some way? Looks from an investment perspective, shouldn't the business people get their RoI, irrespective of which State Hyderabad goes to?

Uday B · Post by **Uday B** » 14 Dec 2009 01:48

On the backdrop of backtracking by almost all political parties TDP, PRP, Congress over the Telangana, why cant we leave the decision to the people of AP. What Im suggesting is let the EC conduct a referendum of sort initiated by the parliament/president with a simple Yes/No option. Yes for Telangana and No for United AP. A simple majority of 51% should do it which ever way it is.

I also support creating new states in UP and MP purely on the basis for development of the region. Its high time the Northern India especially UP, MP, Bihar, Chatisgarh, Jharkhand take part in growth story of India. But Ghorkhaland is absolute nightmare and should not be entertained.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 14 Dec 2009 02:06

SwamyG wrote:Is there an underlying thought that if Hyderabad goes to Telangana, then Hyderabad will suffer in some way? Looks from an investment perspective, shouldn't the business people get their RoI, irrespective of which State Hyderabad goes to?

real estate is going to suffer a huge loss. By forming telangana, you have just lost a rich and huge "catchment area". Also the muslim control which was 1/2 before has been reduced to 1/3 in GHMC. It will decrease even more in the future decades. However if it would have taken 15 years, the same decrease will now happen only in 30-40 years. In the short term however, their power will increase as some new "settlers" will look to go back and some will move to the new capital.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 14 Dec 2009 02:08

Uday B wrote:On the backdrop of backtracking by almost all political parties TDP, PRP, Congress over the Telangana, why cant we leave the decision to the people of AP. What Im suggesting is let the EC conduct a referendum of sort initiated by the parliament/president with a simple Yes/No option. Yes for Telangana and No for United AP. A simple majority of 51% should do it which ever way it is.

The constitution doesnt have a provision for the same and will be only for academic purposes. As I say once again, dont try to use Uncle Sam's knowledge in India, it will back fire.

I also support creating new states in UP and MP purely on the basis for development of the region. Its high time the Northern India especially UP, MP, Bihar, Chatisgarh, Jharkhand take part in growth story of India. But Ghorkhaland is absolute nightmare and should not be entertained.

Regarding Gorkhaland, I do not know much about it except Jaswant as BJP contested from it. Can you please educate me.

Thanks.

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 14 Dec 2009 02:13

There seems to be an underlying feeling that a smaller state is somehow the solution to the underdevelopment of a particular region. I dont see any scientific logic here other than the desperate prayer that somehow changing the status quo will magically transform a region. We can end up in a dangerous fractal trap here as there can never be uniform development anywhere no matter how small we get and if division is a solution then X becomes X/2 then X/4 then X/8 so on..we can end up dividing to such an extent that the children in the individual house will demand a separate state as they feel somehow discriminated by the adults

..where is the end to it? How can this be a solution?
These kind of decisions must be arrived at after a thorough analysis of why there is underdevelopment, the historical, societal, economic, geographical backgrounds of the region must be understood fully. Infact I will go on a limb to say that adding more area to a region is a solution rather than further compartmentalization. This may establish a symbiotic relationship and mutual progress can be achieved. This was probably why i actually think Telangana is better off in united AP than the other way round. Being a more or less barren region it has actually benefited from the investments in other industries in the region from the rest of AP. Hyderabad would just be another overpopulated town with its water problems and Hindu-Muslim riots etc if not for the development of the last few decades. The layman with 3 minute attention span will believe what the next unscrupulous politician tells him, its upto the intellectuals to understand the larger picture.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Dec 2009 03:25

A few newspaper op-eds;

1) Hindustan Times : Telegana decision will backfire

...The manner in which the issue has been handled demonstrates that the decision-making mechanism in the government is faulty. Why else would a decision, which is likely to severely affect the Congress in its best state, be taken so casually? There has been no reference point on the subject from the State and neither has the Centre put forward any proposal in Parliament. But a decision has arbitrarily been taken. Why?

The issue has also raised questions on whether this was done because someone in the party wanted to divert attention from the various scams. Or was this done to finish the late Y.S. Rajasekhar Reddy’s influence so that his son Jagan would not inherit his legacy? Or was this due to the power politics within the Congress.

Whatever the compelling reasons, the announcement has put the Congress on the mat and the government will have to bear the consequences....

2) Business Standard: Political Crisis over Telangana boils in AP

...But the Congress leadership in Delhi is confident that the infighting within the party will soon be over. “Talks are on with the agitating ministers in the Rosaiah Cabinet. The problem will be resolved soon,” said a central minister involved in the current crisis management.

The Congress has also received flak from its ally in Tamil Nadu — the DMK — for the Telangana feud. Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M Karunanidhi today said: “The Centre need not have first delayed its decision over Telangana and then gone ahead hastily.”...

I hope saner minds prevail and those who wish to divide dont win.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 14 Dec 2009 03:38

Telangana crisis has helped YSR Reddy's son
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_te ... on_1323441

Congress should make a deal with YSR's son. He becomes the Chiefminister if the issue is amicably settled.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 14 Dec 2009 03:48

ravi_ku wrote:
SwamyG wrote:Is there an underlying thought that if Hyderabad goes to Telangana, then Hyderabad will suffer in some way? Looks from an investment perspective, shouldn't the business people get their RoI, irrespective of which State Hyderabad goes to?
real estate is going to suffer a huge loss. By forming telangana, you have just lost a rich and huge "catchment area". Also the muslim control which was 1/2 before has been reduced to 1/3 in GHMC. It will decrease even more in the future decades. However if it would have taken 15 years, the same decrease will now happen only in 30-40 years. In the short term however, their power will increase as some new "settlers" will look to go back and some will move to the new capital.

The real estate decrease will be in the short term and I don't expect it as a big deal. It is overheated anyway and is already in some adjustment mode. If you have money it is good time to buy and that is what my brothers are thinking. Business, real-estate are like alcohol addiction and the city is too big and hence will adjust to these short term jerks.

If Telangana forms with Hyd in the long run the investments will shift to Vizag or some other city in the southern Rayalseema. You need to have a land area that has potential to grow. Vijayawada, Rajmundry or other coastal cities are not expandable and hence Vizag is the only potential for such a growth. I don't know that much about Rayalseema as I haven't visited any town there other than Tirupathi. Tirupathi is also not a city potential to grow like Hyderabad.

It will be some city which is not surronded by fertile land will suddenly start growing. I don't see any other city except Vizag.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 Dec 2009 04:35

"Vinaasa Kaale Viparita Buddhi"

Very interesting to note how people with power can interpret others' actions.

First few days KCR was treated as a criminal, was arrested and his fasting was ended forcefully.

Then KCR became the blue-eyed boy of the establishment, and the law-and-order situation was allowed to deteriorate in Hyderabad & Telangana.

Telangaana was announced.

Now Lagadapati Rajagopal is being treated as criminal, his fasting was not permitted. The establishment purposefully ignoring the agitation in rest of Andhra.

Interesting times ahead.

My prediction is that Telangana will be a reality. Andhra politicians will have to make a choice, to continue within INC or form a separate party. A state INC leader already indicated TRS's possible merging with INC.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 Dec 2009 05:03

The editorial of Andhra Bhoomi (dated 12/13/2009) news paper summarizes my thoughts eloquently. A couple of quotes from there.

1. Achieving their political interest and not the betterment of a backward (real or perceived) region is the basis for the Telangana demand for many political parties.

2. Who wants to table the resolution to form Telangana state out of Andhra Pradesh? GOI or INC party? When did they become one and same?

3. Conceptually, forming small states may not a bad idea. But who and why political parties are allowed to create regional divisiveness in the name of small states?

4. In historical times (RayC – note this) the United India used to have 56 kingdoms (modern states?). There is nothing wrong in creating that many states as long as the nation is united. However politicians fueling regional tensions, directly or indirectly cannot be the basis for it.

5. Independent India inherited the administrative and political regions from British. Why these politicians and political parties demand unification of Puducheri in Tamil Nadu, Yanam in Andhra Pradesh, Dadra in Gujarat, Dayyu & Daman in Maha Rashtra.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 14 Dec 2009 05:03

ravi_ku wrote:
SwamyG wrote:Is there an underlying thought that if Hyderabad goes to Telangana, then Hyderabad will suffer in some way? Looks from an investment perspective, shouldn't the business people get their RoI, irrespective of which State Hyderabad goes to?
real estate is going to suffer a huge loss. By forming telangana, you have just lost a rich and huge "catchment area". Also the muslim control which was 1/2 before has been reduced to 1/3 in GHMC. It will decrease even more in the future decades. However if it would have taken 15 years, the same decrease will now happen only in 30-40 years. In the short term however, their power will increase as some new "settlers" will look to go back and some will move to the new capital.

Can you elaborate? Why would there be a huge loss? Why would the percentage of muslims be a factor from a business point of view? What is "catchment area" ?

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 14 Dec 2009 05:26

Does formation of Telegana state mean that people of this area will finally have an opportunity to come out of their dhimmified mindset and take on the Muslim mafia in Hyderabad. The Andhra migrants had no interest in taking them on for reasons I have been unable to understand till now. But to their credit they did contribute to reducing the footprintof Urdu in the city.

If we look at the erstwhile territories of the Nizam absorbed into MH( Latur, Osmanabad) Karnataka (Bidar, Gulbarga) the ghost of 600 years of muslim rule seems to have been exorcized to some extent. Their political power has been tamed as well. Wheras in Hyd, the residual political influence of the razakars is still there.

I would say this is the opportunity to slay the Dhakkani muslim influence and dissolve it, hopefully permanently.

+++++++++++++++++

I do think the process of indification of Hyd muslims is proceeding at a glacial pace without making any waves. I lived for 10+ years in the vicinity of golkonda fort.

This fort has a small temple at the top which is said to be there since the kakatiya days. When I went there in 2003, the temple had expanded 3-4 times. There was a priest who was performing regular puja and tourists were encouraged to stop by the temple on the way.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 14 Dec 2009 05:37

SwamyG wrote:
real estate is going to suffer a huge loss. By forming telangana, you have just lost a rich and huge "catchment area". Also the muslim control which was 1/2 before has been reduced to 1/3 in GHMC. It will decrease even more in the future decades. However if it would have taken 15 years, the same decrease will now happen only in 30-40 years. In the short term however, their power will increase as some new "settlers" will look to go back and some will move to the new capital.
Can you elaborate? Why would there be a huge loss? Why would the percentage of muslims be a factor from a business point of view? What is "catchment area" ?

"catchment area" was a sort of loose term (that is why the quotes) for the areas from which all levels of people would give a preference to move to. For example, uptil now a software engineer from say vijayawada, while ticking his preferences in preferred locations, the first one would have been hyderabad. In 1950s it was Madras, from then to today, it is hyderabad now the preferred area will move on to the new capital. So you see the next businessman/educated professional in coastal areas will not move to hyd. Hyd has just lost the future Ramoji Film City, Satyam, Andhra Bank and so on. All of them will be established but just in a new city.

A real estate is hugely dependent on how the future growth is. Many rich people from coastal andhra have invested over there, remember the only metro sized city in the state was hyderabad- Eg: Murali Mohan. Dont ask me, ask any realtor in hyd and what he thinks of telangana -

Business and political control are closely linked. It will be foolish to ignore those linkages. If you want to get permission in an area, you have to bribe the local politicians. You cant get away from this. Change in political controls means a level of uncertainity, new bosses to pay off and so on. And more importantly, whoever is in power will ask, why you and why not my chela?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 14 Dec 2009 05:40

>>>I do think the process of indification of Hyd muslims is proceeding at a glacial pace without making any waves.
What does that exactly mean?

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 14 Dec 2009 05:49

An article(written from a Hyd muslim POV) I had discussed in 2006 with Ramana, Kaushal, others. This article shows the effect of the changing winds on the place. We should thanks Sardar Patel for this. Also NTR for acclelerating the andhrafication of Hyderabad.

I guess it's not a surprise to hear that Hyderabad has changed in the last decade or so. As is the common case with a economically vibrant city, hyderabad attracted a lot of folks from surrounding areas and the population grew tremendously. New people bring their own culture, and hyderabad changed. Hyderabad used to be a unique city in india in a lot of ways. Back in the 80s/90s,

It's part of south india, but perhaps only city where north indians felt comfortable to live and work in. People in madras, didn't know hindi and were somewhat hostile to north indians. While Bangalore was a nice city, language problems existed and there wasn't a decent sized north indian community. It's part of andhra pradesh, but people from andhra were intimidated to visit hyderabad. The indimidation factor ? Language problem We used to share a joke, that hyderabad is one place where to telugu natives meet and converse in hindi. Hindi (or Urdu - my words) was *the* language, Auto drivers acted as if they didn't understand telugu, rickshaw drivers had that unique "lungi with belt" look adopted by amitabh in desh premee. There were just as many theatres playing hindi movies as there were for telugu. In fact, the top movie theatre in hyderabad during the 80s (Maheshwari/Parameshwari) rarely played telugu movies! Old city was really old, I mean 400 years old. Old city meant, charminar and south of charminar. City center was Kothi, Abids, Nampally, Basheerbagh. I guess i can keep listing some of these things, but there was a character to the city. It was not a hustly bustly north indian city, nor it was culturally inward focused south indian town/city. Hyderabadi hindi was different, hyderabadi attitude was different. In short, Hyderabad and hyderabadis, were unique.

Today, the city is centered at Panjagutta, somajiguda, Khairatabad (prasads + ntr garden), begumpet, ameerpet areas. Abids is not crowded. Roads near LB stadium, basheerbagh are relatively free of traffic compared to panjagutta chowrasta. We could drive through sultan bazaar, find parking, get our shopping done with literally no crowds on a weekday evening. We had much harder time parking in hyderabad central. Hindi is accepted these days, but the language of choice is telugu. Very few hindi movies play and even those don't play for very long. I doubt, if we'll see sholay run for 365 continuous days in the present day hyderabad or even deewar playing for 100 days.

This hyderabad, feels a lot like a big vijayawada. May be more open and welcoming to all cultures and languages, but it feels like a distinctly telugu city trying to become a metro, than a historical hindu/muslim city that is a cultural bridge.

I guess these changes are good and economic boom is great. I am just being a bit nostalgic. The hyderabadi unique character is now missing in hyderabad

I am trying to understand the implications of the current playout on the big picture. Will the formation of Telengana roll back or aid Sardar Patel's hard won gains.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 14 Dec 2009 06:04

ramana: Thanks for the map. From the looks of it, Coastal Andhra and Rayalaseema has more reason to demand freedom from Tell Angana than the other way round.

It's hard to see from the map why H'bad became the city of choice for rapid development rather than Vijayawada or Vishakapatnam. In a bifurcated state, isn't it possible that these will outpace H'bad (esp. if H'bad is stuck inside a xenophobic Baksheeshistan), given H'bad is already choked with traffic and land inflation and pollution?

I have to conclude that it is the presence of higher education that gave H'bad an advantage, but today that advantage may evaporate very quickly.

I'd put my 1 paisa on Vishakapatnam (shipyard and Navy presence to boost technology( followed by Vijayawada (rail access) if either of these places has the foresight to acquire land for a really large airport and lay out really broad roads with flyovers etc. while land is still below astronomical price levels.

Infrastructure and space are the selling points of the future, from my pov.

H'bad may be a great place to visit to see the ruins.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 14 Dec 2009 06:26

SwamyG wrote:>>>I do think the process of indification of Hyd muslims is proceeding at a glacial pace without making any waves.
What does that exactly mean?

You need to know about razakars - Kasim Razvi and his progeny MIM which still rules the old city.

Basically the hold of razakars on hyd muslims is still strong as during nizam. CBN when in power tried to dent it to some extent but the congress rule has pushed it back much further.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Dec 2009 06:31

enqyoob wrote: I'd put my 1 paisa on Vishakapatnam (shipyard and Navy presence to boost technology( followed by Vijayawada (rail access) if either of these places has the foresight to acquire land for a really large airport and lay out really broad roads with flyovers etc. while land is still below astronomical price levels.

Infrastructure and space are the selling points of the future, from my pov.
.

Vishakapatnam is too far off to one side (East). IMO Vijaywada has a better chance.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 14 Dec 2009 06:40

ravi_ku wrote: "catchment area" was a sort of loose term (that is why the quotes) for the areas from which all levels of people would give a preference to move to. For example, uptil now a software engineer from say vijayawada, while ticking his preferences in preferred locations, the first one would have been hyderabad. In 1950s it was Madras, from then to today, it is hyderabad now the preferred area will move on to the new capital. So you see the next businessman/educated professional in coastal areas will not move to hyd. Hyd has just lost the future Ramoji Film City, Satyam, Andhra Bank and so on. All of them will be established but just in a new city.

A real estate is hugely dependent on how the future growth is. Many rich people from coastal andhra have invested over there, remember the only metro sized city in the state was hyderabad- Eg: Murali Mohan. Dont ask me, ask any realtor in hyd and what he thinks of telangana -

Business and political control are closely linked. It will be foolish to ignore those linkages. If you want to get permission in an area, you have to bribe the local politicians. You cant get away from this. Change in political controls means a level of uncertainity, new bosses to pay off and so on. And more importantly, whoever is in power will ask, why you and why not my chela?

ravi,
You have a point. The biz folks like status quo as opposed to a restart somewhere else even if the new city is close to their ancestoral place. They would like to expand on what they already have built. Hence the fight for no-split is spearheaded by the biz folks. However, if a decision is final then what you are saying may happen for future investments. In fact, this is the reason there are some rumblings in the Telangana land holders to stop the split. Hyd MLAs and some adjacent MLAs may join the United-AP front that is emerging.

However, it will take time before Hyd goes time. The current proposed investments will continue.

Vizag real estate is growing and the city is expanding with a proposal of a ring road there. Vizag will span into Vizianagram dt. I don't know if Rayalseema will like to so much north. They will feel like we have had enough of this and let us have something big for ourselves. They sacrificed Kurnool to Hyd in 1950s.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 14 Dec 2009 06:45

Looks like the ones on BRF aren't alone in their consipracy theories against others!

Spectre of southern sectarian rift looms

Dec. 13: Politicians in coastal Andhra and Rayalaseema have dubbed the Telangana statehood proposal a conspiracy by Tamils and Kannadigas to divide and weaken their state, raising fears of violence and inter-state tensions.

Agitators have blocked borders at many places, stalling bus, truck and train movement to and from the two neighbouring states. They accuse the Tamil Union home minister P. Chidambaram and the Kannadiga law minister Veerappa Moily of engineering the central nod on Telangana with wrong advice to Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi.

Even Bengal hasn’t been spared: police said trains from Chennai to Howrah were stopped by mobs today with slogans of “Down with Pranab Mukherjee” even as Chennai-bound trains were greeted with “Down with Chidambaram”.

Most of the anger, however, is directed at the “Thambis” — a Tamil word meaning “brother” (like dada in Bengali) that has come to stand for Tamils in general. The theme of regional jealousies, however, means that for once the “cow belt” — the traditional target of southern conspiracy theorists — is not at the receiving end.

...
...
Agitators have also stopped the transport of milk, vegetables, eggs, chicken and oil from Anantpur to Karnataka for the past three days. Tamil Nadu traffic, and supplies, have been blocked in Chittoor and Tirupati.

“Both Tamil Nadu and Karnataka were envious of Andhra’s strides in IT and irrigation,” said P. Keshav, Telugu Desam leader from Anantpur, pointing a finger at Moily, the Congress leader in charge of Andhra affairs.
...
...
...
Andhra chief minister K. Rosaiah has warned protesters in his state that if they vent their anger on Tamils, the large number of Telugus in Tamil Nadu could face reprisals. Such threats have already begun coming from Tamil Nadu, where activists have blockaded some border points against vehicles from Andhra.

The Telugus of Chennai control large interests in the film, real estate and hotel industries — so, anti-Telugu reprisals would hurt not only the victims but also Tamil Nadu’s economy.

...
...

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 14 Dec 2009 06:48

shiv wrote:
enqyoob wrote: I'd put my 1 paisa on Vishakapatnam (shipyard and Navy presence to boost technology( followed by Vijayawada (rail access) if either of these places has the foresight to acquire land for a really large airport and lay out really broad roads with flyovers etc. while land is still below astronomical price levels.

Infrastructure and space are the selling points of the future, from my pov.
.
Vishakapatnam is too far off to one side (East). IMO Vijaywada has a better chance.

Vizag has a better chance than Vijayawada becasue the real estate is extremely expensive in Vijayawada becasue it is surrounded by fertile land. Vizag is already expanding and actually they started SEZs there as a backup after this second Telangana movement started. However, for Rayalseema folks it is little far off and they may want one big city in their region this time.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 14 Dec 2009 06:49

X-Posting from state re-org thread...

Looks like the ones on BRF aren't alone in their consipracy theories against others!

Spectre of southern sectarian rift looms

Dec. 13: Politicians in coastal Andhra and Rayalaseema have dubbed the Telangana statehood proposal a conspiracy by Tamils and Kannadigas to divide and weaken their state, raising fears of violence and inter-state tensions.

Agitators have blocked borders at many places, stalling bus, truck and train movement to and from the two neighbouring states. They accuse the Tamil Union home minister P. Chidambaram and the Kannadiga law minister Veerappa Moily of engineering the central nod on Telangana with wrong advice to Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi.

Even Bengal hasn’t been spared: police said trains from Chennai to Howrah were stopped by mobs today with slogans of “Down with Pranab Mukherjee” even as Chennai-bound trains were greeted with “Down with Chidambaram”.

Most of the anger, however, is directed at the “Thambis” — a Tamil word meaning “brother” (like dada in Bengali) that has come to stand for Tamils in general. The theme of regional jealousies, however, means that for once the “cow belt” — the traditional target of southern conspiracy theorists — is not at the receiving end.

...
...
Agitators have also stopped the transport of milk, vegetables, eggs, chicken and oil from Anantpur to Karnataka for the past three days. Tamil Nadu traffic, and supplies, have been blocked in Chittoor and Tirupati.

“Both Tamil Nadu and Karnataka were envious of Andhra’s strides in IT and irrigation,” said P. Keshav, Telugu Desam leader from Anantpur, pointing a finger at Moily, the Congress leader in charge of Andhra affairs.
...
...
...
Andhra chief minister K. Rosaiah has warned protesters in his state that if they vent their anger on Tamils, the large number of Telugus in Tamil Nadu could face reprisals. Such threats have already begun coming from Tamil Nadu, where activists have blockaded some border points against vehicles from Andhra.

The Telugus of Chennai control large interests in the film, real estate and hotel industries — so, anti-Telugu reprisals would hurt not only the victims but also Tamil Nadu’s economy.

...
...

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 14 Dec 2009 06:52

What is CBN's stand in this Telengana issue?

I did hear anything from them about this so far.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 14 Dec 2009 06:54

RaviBg wrote:Looks like the ones on BRF aren't alone in their consipracy theories against others!

I respectfully disagree and I will not brand them as CT. There is truth in these theories and it is not at people-people level but at a clout-level inside INC. Take the future of Tamil-INC and its clout inside INC for PC and also KA-INC's current state and its current clout for Moily and their observance of leaverage that AP-INC folks are currently having. They have reasons to expedite the AP split.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 14 Dec 2009 06:54

shyam wrote:What is CBN's stand in this Telengana issue?

I did hear anything from them about this so far.

TDP was never for it, but just before this election so as to kill congress, it tied up with TRS who as always has one and only demand. It never actively pursued it, but definitely silently acquiesed it.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 14 Dec 2009 07:09

from 'Times'
"Small states like Kerala in the south and Haryana in the north, both with populations under 30 million, boast some of India's highest development indicators. Backers of further decentralization even point to the original, idealistic Gandhian vision for India — of a republic brought together not by a strong central government, but an "ocean" of egalitarian and self-sufficient villages."

How to Rule India: Break It Into Even More Pieces?
By Ishaan Tharoor

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 92,00.html

Small states are the right answer
http://www.mydigitalfc.com/op-ed/small- ... answer-756
By Tushar Gandhi Dec 13 2009

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 14 Dec 2009 07:29

Ramadoss reiterates his call for bifurcation of TN

Karunanidhi rejects suggestion for bifurcation of Tamil Nadu

Karunanidhi slams 'hasty decision' on Telangana