The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & co

[Rangudu]

Headley linked to many more planned attacks

The al-Qaida-affiliated militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba has been actively planning one or more additional Mumbai-style attacks in India, based in part on scouting by a Chicago man recently charged with being a longtime clandestine operative of the group, according to current and former U.S., Indian and European counterterrorism officials.

...

And authorities allege that he did so at the direction of two senior operatives of Pakistani militant groups who had also been members of Pakistan's military.

...

The initial leg of the trip by agents of the FBI's Chicago field office to Mumbai and then New Delhi was based, in part, on orders from the White House that they share as much information from the investigation as possible with India about when and where such an attack may occur, and the roles Headley and his alleged co-conspirators in the U.S., Pakistan and Europe may have played in it.

The agents' purpose on the last leg of the trip was more politically delicate: to present Pakistan with new hard evidence that Lashkar is plotting attacks from its soil despite the Islamabad government's promises to crack down on it -- and that it is doing so with the help of some former and possibly current high-ranking military officers.

[Ananya]

Headley may turn witness against Rana. Looks like extradition would be nearly impossible and is as expected. our FM would be still praying that unkil hands over as a good will gesture.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 332173.cms

[enqyoob]

Guys, "Indian demand for extradition" is the best way to keep up the Gilani Ghazals at full .

[Malayappan]

Headley met top Lashkar men Hafiz Saeed, Lakhvi in 26/11 attack plot Indian Express, Dec 13 2009

There is another name of a serving officer of paki army in this report - Iqbal

[Malayappan]

Did we miss this one? Raman Sir's take. He shares Rangudu's assessment on the plea bargain bit.
FBI avoids focus on Headleys links with Narcotics Control Agency

[arun]

Divorced wife of Daood Gilani aka David Coleman Headley:

"When he would see an Indian person in the street, he used to spit, spit in the street to make a point.

Philadelphia Inquirer’s biography on Gilani. Read it all:

Terror suspect was drug dealer, then informant

[Patni]

Headley was in room from where LeT men were guided during 26/11 attacks

Press Trust Of India
Mumbai, December 13, 2009
First Published: 15:27 IST(13/12/2009)
Last Updated: 16:38 IST(13/12/2009)
American-born terror suspect David Headley had not only actively played a role in conducting reconnaissance of targets in Mumbai but was also present in a control unit in Pakistan along with the masterminds of the attacks to guide 10 Lashker-e-Taiba terrorists to carry out strikes in the megapolis.

Sources privy to the investigations of the terror suspect's trail in India said 48-year-old Headley was very much present in the room from where the 10 LeT terrorists were being guided to various locations during the 26/11 attacks.

The investigators re-visited the intercepts and found that there were specific instructions being given to terrorists about entry and exit including that they had taken more time before reaching their final targets which included Taj Mahal hotel, Oberoi and Trident towers and Nariman House.

India has asked for a voice sample of Headley from the FBI to match with a voice which was unidentified so far for the security agencies. This voice was giving information on exact surroundings of the targets attacked by Lashker-e-Taiba militants.

However, there was no firm response from the FBI on providing the same to the Indian investigators, the sources said.

[Patni]

Just thought that I will list out all the Businesses/Connections that I have managed to dig out over last few weeks on Tahawwur Rana and his various businesses In Chicago Area. Will also keep adding more information as they become available.

(1)

First World Immigration Services Inc.
70 W. Madison, Suite 650,
Chicago, IL 60602
Phone #: (773) 338-9934
Fax #: (773) 338-9931

Reference : Find Pakistani Businesses in Chicago
This is the only one reference I have managed to find on the address which is very posh high rise building with many law firms in it. The current occupant of the address, a divorce specialty law firm, seems not to have any paki connections. PASULKA & WHITE, LLC

PASULKA & WHITE, LLC, Three First National Plaza , 70 West Madison St. Suite. 650 , Chicago , IL 60602-4286

Google map location

(2)

Raymond J. Sanders & Associates
2809 W. Devon Avenue,
Chicago, IL 60659
Phone #: (773) 761-0090
Fax #: (773) 761-4842

Reference : Find Pakistani Businesses in Chicago
Is reported to be rana's partner/tenant at his office and runs his immigration law practice from same address as of rana's other businesses. He is the guy who provided reference letters for Rana's Indian visa application as reported earlier.
Raymond J Sanders Associates
Google Map showing the location

(3)

Chicago Grocers
2122 West Devon,
Chicago, IL 60659-2106
Contact No: (773) 338-9933

Reference : Chicago Grocers is a Zabiha Halal Meat grocery store.
Is rana's grocery store and shop front from where he must be selling Halal meat from the farm in countryside close to Chicago. It is clearly visible on google earth with street view.
Google map showing the location.

(4)

Pan American Physical Therapy Svcs Inc
2122 W Devon Ave
Chicago, IL 60659
773-338-9933

Referance: Pan American Physical Therapy Svcs Inc
Is also ran at same address as that halal Chicago grocers shop address and also have same PHONE number.
Google map location

(5)

First World Immigration Services
2809 W Devon Ave
Chicago, IL 60659-1501
Phone:(773) 761-0090
(773) 338-9930

Reference: First World Immigration Services Inc
His most widely reported company!
Google Map location

(6)

First World Management Services Inc, 2122 W Devon Ave, Chicago, IL. (773) 338-9931

Again another business but same address and phone number.
First World Immigration Services Inc
Google map location

(7)

First World Mgmt Service
6260 S Kinsman Rd, Kinsman, IL, 60437-4039
(815) 392-4259

Rana's Farm house in small rural town of Kinsman.
Referance: Business Listing in Kinsman
Google map location

Seems like Rana has 5 phone lines in sequence that he has on his names and are used in all his companies!
(773) 338-9930
(773) 338-9931
(773) 338-9932
(773) 338-9933
(773) 338-9934

Edited on 30/11/09 to add more details.

Edited on 13/12/09 to add more details.

(8) Online web site http://generalworker.com/main/page_home.html which is registered to Rana:
WHOIS - generalworker.com


Registrar: TUCOWS INC.
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Dates: Created 08-jul-2008 Updated 08-jul-2008 Expires 08-jul-2010
DNS Servers: NS1.SITEGROUND185.COM NS2.SITEGROUND185.COM

I was referred to whois.tucows.com; I'm looking it up there.


Registrant:
n/a
2809 W. Devon Ave.
Chicago, IL 60659
US

Domain name: GENERALWORKER.COM


Administrative Contact:
Rana, Tahawwur **********@siteground.com
2809 W. Devon Ave.
Chicago, IL 60659
US
+1.7737610090
Technical Contact:
Rana, Tahawwur **********@siteground.com
2809 W. Devon Ave.
Chicago, IL 60659
US
+1.7737610090

(9) Another portal on Rana's name that I found: zabeeha.com
Registrant

First World Management Services, Inc.
2809 W. Devon Ave.
Chicago, Illinois 60659
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: ZABEEHA.COM
Created on: 24-May-05
Expires on: 24-May-17
Last Updated on: 27-Nov-07

Administrative Contact

Rana, Tahawwur drtahawwur(at)yahoo.com
First World Management Services, Inc.
2809 W. Devon Ave.
Chicago, Illinois 60659
United States
7737610090

Technical Contact:

Rana, Tahawwur drtahawwur(at)yahoo.com
First World Management Services, Inc.
2809 W. Devon Ave.
Chicago, Illinois 60659
United States
7737610090

(10)

[Tanaji]

Headley was in room from where LeT men were guided during 26/11 attacks

What is amazing is that the entire Mumbai Police investigation began ,closed and filed a case with no mention of "Headley" or even a Mr. Unknown in the entire process.

Either this is monumental oversight and incompetence OR there is definitely more to the eye than what is being leaked to the papers. This Headley chap seems to be popping up everywhere these days.

Has anyone noticed how the media has suddenly shut up completely about Rahul Bhatt? Contrast this with the other cases.

[RamaY]

The unfettered access to Headly’s case does not represent the close cooperation of see-aye-ye or eph-bee-aye with Indian agencies. Unkil is giving this info to yindia only because it helps him push pakis into the corner as far as their troop deployment in phuk-af borders. In unkil’s mind he is teaching his whore a lesson as the whore tried to run away from his hold. Nothing more nothing less.

All this cooperation will not help India avenge 11/26. It just helps India to weed out few operatives here and there, that too depending upon see-aye-ye’s prerogative.

JMT

[SSridhar]

What is amazing is that the entire Mumbai Police investigation began ,closed and filed a case with no mention of "Headley" or even a Mr. Unknown in the entire process.

Either this is monumental oversight and incompetence OR there is definitely more to the eye than what is being leaked to the papers.

Tanaji, I do not find anything amiss here. Headley was a silent, behind-the-scenes operator under a near-perfect cover. He came to light because he was plotting the Denmark attack and the CIA didn't like that. Whatever investigation had been done, we might never have unearthed Headley, if the US had not decided to share the information with us for whatever reason known only to them. It is quite conceivable that even after convictions in the 26/11 case, there may remain a few elusive 26/11 operators unknown to the investigators. For example, PA officers or ISI handlers.

[SSridhar]

The unfettered access to Headly’s case does not represent the close cooperation of see-aye-ye or eph-bee-aye with Indian agencies. Unkil is giving this info to yindia only because it helps him push pakis into the corner as far as their troop deployment in phuk-af borders. In unkil’s mind he is teaching his whore a lesson as the whore tried to run away from his hold. Nothing more nothing less.

All this cooperation will not help India avenge 11/26. It just helps India to weed out few operatives here and there, that too depending upon see-aye-ye’s prerogative.

JMT

RamaY, I agree with you that the Headley case is a kind of 'threat' to Pakistan that the US can 'reveal' more about Pakistani involvement in terrorism snd so they should 'behave'. Information that will be released to India will also be selective and India will never get a chance to interrogate Headley or Rana, thus making us rely only on the FBI for information.

[Amber G.]

Daood Gilani was the topic in today's GPS (CNN program by Zakaria) in "What in the world" segment.
One conclusion said it all "[all terror trails] lead to Pakistan"

From what I have read and know, the sharing of info regarding Gilani from FBI with Indian authorities. is much better than in the past. White house had had lot of pressure (prolly coming from MMS/India) on FBI to share all it can with Indian authorities.

This is good. Hope this brings more security.

[Gagan]

The mumbai police didn't mention anyone from the team who reconnoitered the attacked places, because I guess it was assumed that the ISI did all the surveillance including the allocation of the targets.

Now that this is known that the ISI sub let this job to 'non state actors' as they call them, the net will be cast wider in future.

But this certainly puts paid to another modus oprendi that the pakistanis were indulging in. Henceforth they will have to source information from Indian citizens, and I doubt they will get someone as resourceful as this Headley chap.

[Rangudu]

SSridhar,

I disagree with you regarding lack of awareness in Indian law enforecement regarding Headley being somewhat understandable.

Headley was not a ghost, meaning that he was on intercepts, he was physically present in India for weeks at a stretch, he was staying in the same hotels that were attacked, he was meeting Indians etc. Some may say that Headley's "gora" identity may have shielded him perfectly but that does not explain how Tahawwur Rana - a known Canadian TSPian who met with Indian Muslim "relatives" in cities known to be within the LeT/ISI connection points (Agra, Western UP) - went un-connected to 26/11.

If not the Mumbai Police, the IB or the R&AW should have had him in their sights. Remember that the Central Agencies like the IB have long had secretive handlers from LeT/TSPA profiled. Think about Azam Cheema, Muzammil Bhat, Tunda etc.

The Headley "surprise" is either a monumental blunder spanning every single investigative and law enforcement agency in India or perhaps more likely we are not hearing some aspects of this situation. Think about the D-Company links, many of which we don't hear about because they encroach into political areas that are fiefdoms of powerful netas.

AmberG,

I'm not sanguine on this cooperation thing from the US. If the stories we hear are true, then Headley and Rana were being snooped on well before 26/11. Open source info also tells us that the FBI knew that the TSP handlers of Headley & Rana were senior LeT figures, including Sajid Mir - who was in Western radar since 2002. Almost surely the US alerts to India regarding Mumbai in September 2008 or so was at least partly based on their Headley/Rana intercepts.

The most charitable interpretation of US info sharing with India before 26/11 is that they were genuinely unaware of the timing - which is reasonable because timing is controlled by those in TSP - but what took Unkil nearly a year to break this network? Why did they let Headley and Rana come back to India and essentially create blueprints for more 26/11s that the ISI/LeT can use at their leisure? Given all the different ways GoI has taken political risks at home to advance ties with the US, I would not find it acceptable if India does not get access to Headley & Rana, even if "full information" is given.

Let me put it this way - if Sajid Mir or anyone tied to the Headley network is part of a future attack on India, then GoI should tear up this counter-terror framework for good. Either they give us the whole story and enable us to protect ourselves or they use their leverage in TSP to at least remove the key ISI/LeT players from the scene.

[Patni]

Pak officers working with jihadis, Headley confirms to FBI

14 Dec 2009, 0726 hrs IST, Sachin Parashar, TNN
NEW DELHI: The FBI interrogation of David Coleman Headley alias Daood Gilani has, for the first time, confirmed what India has always known: A "section of serving Pakistan army officers" are working in collaboration with India-specific jihadi groups like LeT and JeM.

Sources said this was revealed by Headley to his FBI interrogators in what is the first confirmation by an independent probe agency of the involvement of Pakistani army officers in planning and executing terrorist operations against India.

This, sources said, had been conveyed to the Indian side by the FBI team which visited India to share information on Headley’s questioning. While Pakistan has explained away the instances of the involvement of army officials calling them “aberrations”, this has exposed the jihadi infiltration of the Pakistani army and their collaboration with terrorist outfits in anti-India operations.

Sources said the officials identified by Headley were working with Lashkar on ‘Karachi project’ as part of a larger campaign against India. This project involves using jihadi fugitives from India sheltered in Pakistan to draw in vulnerable Indian Muslim youth.

The FBI interrogation of David Coleman Headley has revealed a Lashkar training project involving jihadi fugitives from India. The youth, after they are trained by Pakistani army officials, are sent back to India as part of the gameplan to conceal the Pakistani involvement and pass off the terror in India as a home-grown phenomenon.

During their discussions with FBI, the Indian side told them about their strong suspicion that Headley was present in the Karachi control room from which the Lashkar leadership choreographed the 26/11 terror attacks. The FBI team said this was not borne out by the evidence in their possession but the Indian side has asked the US agency to check a few facts which they have promised to do.

The details of the Karachi project, revealed by FBI, corroborates India’s own findings. Agencies here have established that a number of absconding terrorists — Aamir Raza Khan, Mufti Sufi Patangiya and Rasool Parti and the remnants of Shahid Bilal gang from Hyderabad — have been luring Muslim youth to be trained as jihadis before being sent to India.

The launch of Indian Mujahideen, which tormented India with a wave of bombings, was part of the plan to erase Pakistan’s fingerprints and pass off the attacks as resulting from the disaffection of a section of its own population.

Even 26/11 attackers, armed with fake IDs of a Bangalore engineering college, had planned to mask their nationality. One of them had called up a TV channel introducing the gang as Deccan Mujahideen.

[Patni]

SSridhar,

I disagree with you regarding lack of awareness in Indian law enforecement regarding Headley being somewhat understandable.

Headley was not a ghost, meaning that he was on intercepts, he was physically present in India for weeks at a stretch, he was staying in the same hotels that were attacked, he was meeting Indians etc. Some may say that Headley's "gora" identity may have shielded him perfectly but that does not explain how Tahawwur Rana - a known Canadian TSPian who met with Indian Muslim "relatives" in cities known to be within the LeT/ISI connection points (Agra, Western UP) - went un-connected to 26/11.

If not the Mumbai Police, the IB or the R&AW should have had him in their sights. Remember that the Central Agencies like the IB have long had secretive handlers from LeT/TSPA profiled. Think about Azam Cheema, Muzammil Bhat, Tunda etc.

The Headley "surprise" is either a monumental blunder spanning every single investigative and law enforcement agency in India or perhaps more likely we are not hearing some aspects of this situation. Think about the D-Company links, many of which we don't hear about because they encroach into political areas that are fiefdoms of powerful netas.

Headley was not only deep undercover with obvious links to Paki underworld and a confirmed agent for US Drug Enforcement Agency for least last 9-10 years. I have no doubt that his US handlers had a good idea about his work for TSPA on recon mission for terror in India. IMHO at best it was deliberately overlooked as US might have thought having him deeply entrenched with Paki jehadi nerve center was worth wearing blinkers over few bombs going off in India. The whole thing came out only cause according to western establishment paki pigs over reached and included western victims and specifically gruesome toucher at Nairman house!! That IMHO was a red line crossed and complicated matters between CIA and ISI and hence the fall out and steady leaks to media that we been seeing since OCT. More then one western agency had headley on their radar and UK has publicly stated it was them who originally raised a flag about headley/rana. Their certainly is shadow boxing between various parties going on. Plenty more not being said then what is being said to public for sure. If one wants to believe uncle that Headley never set off any red flags during 2005-2008 multiple visits to Pakistan and India, including changing his name for obvious reasons to get under the radar of Indian agencies, well then one might as well believe in Yati and that ISI and TSPA are overflowing with love for India and are doing all possible to bring their own staff to book for doing what they told them to do!!

AmberG,

I'm not sanguine on this cooperation thing from the US. If the stories we hear are true, then Headley and Rana were being snooped on well before 26/11. Open source info also tells us that the FBI knew that the TSP handlers of Headley & Rana were senior LeT figures, including Sajid Mir - who was in Western radar since 2002. Almost surely the US alerts to India regarding Mumbai in September 2008 or so was at least partly based on their Headley/Rana intercepts.

The most charitable interpretation of US info sharing with India before 26/11 is that they were genuinely unaware of the timing - which is reasonable because timing is controlled by those in TSP - but what took Unkil nearly a year to break this network? Why did they let Headley and Rana come back to India and essentially create blueprints for more 26/11s that the ISI/LeT can use at their leisure? Given all the different ways GoI has taken political risks at home to advance ties with the US, I would not find it acceptable if India does not get access to Headley & Rana, even if "full information" is given.

Let me put it this way - if Sajid Mir or anyone tied to the Headley network is part of a future attack on India, then GoI should tear up this counter-terror framework for good. Either they give us the whole story and enable us to protect ourselves or they use their leverage in TSP to at least remove the key ISI/LeT players from the scene.

[Amber G.]

Given all the different ways GoI has taken political risks at home to advance ties with the US, I would not find it acceptable if India does not get access to Headley & Rana, even if "full information" is given.

Yes, the thing to watch would be if India does get full access to Headley et all or not (including questioning by Indian officials).
The proof is in the pudding (that is to see how much cooperation India gets from US)

What is even more important for India - to do whatever is necessary with or without US help. For example, India ought to have arrested him while he was in India.(or strive to improve intelligence so that it can arrest him with or without US help - and not merely give an excuse that it's all US's fault)

[SSridhar]

I disagree with you regarding lack of awareness in Indian law enforecement regarding Headley being somewhat understandable.

Headley was not a ghost, meaning that he was on intercepts, he was physically present in India for weeks at a stretch, he was staying in the same hotels that were attacked, he was meeting Indians etc.

Rangudu, Headley was certainly followed closely by the DEA (or FBI) handlers, but I am unaware that his voice or eMail communication was ever intercepted by Indian agencies. He visited India 5 times between 2006 & 2008, which IMO, is not too frequent. His visits were in September 2006, February 2007, September 2007, April 2008 and July 2008. Sure, he was present in the hotels of both the Taj and Oberoi but his last visit to these two hotels was about four months before the carnage and each of these hotels has over 500 guest rooms which are practically always booked. With a name like Headley (and his Pakistani connections completely hidden and the CG, Chicago totally deceived), and with his last stay in the hotel 4 months before the attack, it is no wonder that he was not probed. The biggest mistake, and all the consequences thereupon, IMHO, was committed by the CG at Chicago.

Some may say that Headley's "gora" identity may have shielded him perfectly but that does not explain how Tahawwur Rana - a known Canadian TSPian who met with Indian Muslim "relatives" in cities known to be within the LeT/ISI connection points (Agra, Western UP) - went un-connected to 26/11.

Both Headley & Rana were given visa at the discretion of the CG at Chicago without reference to New Delhi. Both were exempted from reporting to the police in India if they stayed for less than 180 days at a stretch. They never stayed in India at a stretch for more than 6 months and never had to report to police. That was how they escaped the sieve. I have heard of cases where otherwise hardnosed Indian diplomats have helped Pakistanis get similar visas, where they are exempted from reporting to the police, all with good intentions and in most cases harmless too, but we never know.

If not the Mumbai Police, the IB or the R&AW should have had him in their sights. Remember that the Central Agencies like the IB have long had secretive handlers from LeT/TSPA profiled. Think about Azam Cheema, Muzammil Bhat, Tunda etc.

Azam Cheema was directly handling Indian cells and his name cropped up when some of these Indians were caught. Besides, Azzam Cheema has been a long-standing LeT commander for India operations (outside J&K) and the possibility of India getting to know about him was more. So is the case with Muzzamil Bhat as he similarly handles India along with Azzam Cheema. the case of Tunda is different as he is an Indian who now lives in Pakistan. Unlike these people, Headley was not directly responsible for handling Indian terrorists in training and planning.

[Mort Walker]

The previous GWB administration knew full well about the Headley activities and those in the know, that is at the operational level, looked the other way. On 15 Sep. 2001, the DCI, George Tenet presented to the administration the establishment of the Worldwide Attack Matrix in which terrorists operating in over 80 countries would be monitored. The spooks have historically used narco-terrorist links to see what is going on in another country's marxists movements. This is well documented in central America. In this instance, Headly was being used to see what potential plots were being hatched against the US in Pakistan since he was linked to a wide variety of terror organizers. If the GoI had been tipped off about Headley, the US would have lost not just one valuable link, but several others associated with him; but since the attack was so brazen and extensive media coverage, coupled with the murder of westerners, there was no choice other than to arrest Headley. We may not find out the whole story for a few decades.

I seriously doubt the GoI will get access to Headley and although he wasn't a double-agent in the classical sense, he was being used that way by the spooks. If I were his defense attorney, his relationship with the DEA and use as an asset should be considered as the basis of innocence.

[Raju]

{Deleting pending Raju posting backup of the claims}

[Patni]

^^ It is worth recalling that Headley was taken in only cause he tried to thrust towards attack in Copenhagen, Denmark and was trying to get some abduls from paki terror factory for that. IMHO he would have been allowed to freely conspire and plan another attack in India and India would have got some vaguely worded terror threat alert couple of day in advance. We did saw a lot of warning and a travel advisory from Israel citing increased threat perception against chabad houses and favoured destinations of tourists from Israel . I am sure it was rooted from surveillance on Headley/Rana.

[Raju]

{Deleting pending Raju posting backup of the claims}

[Mort Walker]

US cosul chief who was dining at the Four seasons hotel, in the vicinity of Taj or Oberoi, was suddenly dragged away by 4 personal security officers at around 10 p.m. much against his wishes from a rather full banquet hall which was also attended by my friends sister who was a witness to the goings on. It must be due to Headley and others they were completely abreast of the minutest moves of the perpetrators so as to be able to slip one of their own men away from harms way in the nick of time.

they were keeping tabs on this group from the very start through Headley or some one else.

Is there any verification of this in any of the local Mumbai press?

[Rangudu]

With all due respect, can we please stay off the unsubstantiated "9/11 was a CIA job" type CT's off this thread?

It's one thing to ask questions on incomplete cooperation but this?

[Mort Walker]

KK,

Nobody said that. Just looking at the open source info we can see that Headley was being observed and leads to questions.
I do want to note that the spooks have been involved in the drug trade from Indochina to Central America from the 1970s through the 1980s. There is no conspiracy theory here.

[Karan Dixit]

If US does not hand over David Coleman Headley who was involved in heinous murder of 166 human beings on Indian soil then what is the point of following:

- Extradition treaty
- Intelligence sharing
- War on terror

[AbhishekD]

It looks like we are also good at making CT's at BRF. Headley may have been a double agent gone wrong, but it is highly far fetched to say that US knew about the Mumbai plot or that CIA has some interest in perpetrating terrorism in India.

Headley is a price catch to implicate PA, but their wont be any independent proof available either to India or US to directly implicate PA until Headley can furnish one. It is good that Headley is with US and not India, as US can pressure this group within PA and probably shut it down, if India had the proof and it had to pressure Pakistan to shut this group within PA, then we would have seen no result and everything would have been whitewashed.

Further as FBI has unearthed the link between serving PA officers and jihadis, it will have a lot more credibility in the larger intelligence community, helping India to make the case about the rogue nature of PA in future when we will go inside pakistan to rid Pakistan of its terror elements.

I think that Headley's India operations may have been known to CIA but they would not have thought that he is working with L-e-T or that he is involved in terror activities. It would have been very dangerous for CIA to allow such a person to operate in US, as he could carry out terror attacks within US.

[enqyoob]

Sorry, Raju, it's not that I want to discourage CTs, but we do have to maintain our reputation for purveying only the best in CTs... I would be very interested to see the origins of this "US Consul was dragged off moments b4 attack" item.

Gilani apparently did have some form of official link. Quite probably he was a drug dealer, caught and offered a deal to turn informer or spend life in prison. Such "sources" are shady at best, and crooked most of the time. So there is no basis for believing that Gilani would have let his DupleeCity masters in on the secret of the Mumbai attacks. It's one thing to sell out a few druglords, quite another to sell out the Jeehad/ ISI. Chicago and Michigan are full of ISI types.

So I don't believe that the US authorities knew exactly what, where and when was going to happen, they just had general feelers at best, that something was afoot. The Taj etc were on high alert for weeks, ending a week before the actual attack, remember.

Why did they allow Gilani to come BACK to India? THAT sounds like the Red Flag mission in the Fourth Protocol - a bumbling idiot sent in with an obviously fake passport in order to trigger a tail, and uproot the whole network that he visits.

See what has happened with the Nazeer character in Kerala, who got panicked when Gilani's arrest and Ghazal-singing was announced, and fled to BD, got arrested and shipped back by plane to India. Now he's singing ghazals, and putting the Ma'Adani gang in serious trouble. The NIA has taken over the case, which is causing severe PeptoBismol demand among both the Marxist (Pinarayi Vijayan) and Congress I/ Muslim League gangs who have gone far out on their Kalidasa limbs to get Ma'Adani out of Coimbatore jail.

Why did it take so long? Well... they would have taken their time seeing all the connections before pulling in the net.

[enqyoob]

If US does not hand over David Coleman Headley who was involved in heinous murder of 166 human beings on Indian soil then what is the point of following:

- Extradition treaty
- Intelligence sharing
- War on terror

As I see from the news, the guy is already charged with 7 murders, with no extradition needed for that - the murders were of US citizens, so the US has jurisdiction. He is a US citizen, so why would they extrdite him until he has paid for /been cleared of those charges?

In the normal course of events, after he has served the consecutive 99-year terms for each of those, extradition to face charges of all the other murders becomes an issue.

Besides, as long as he is NOT extradited to India, the Indian demand for extradition hangs as the incentive for him to confess to crimes in the US and spend his jail time there.

I can't imagine that he would want to be freed in the US anytime soon, to then face extradition proceedings to India.

So what is the problem that you see with extradition treaty, intel sharing or war on terror?

[Karan Dixit]

Pressing for extradition or asking for questions does not equal conspiracy theory.

All the pressure so far put on Pakistan to cease and desist terrorism in India has come from India, and rightly so. It is absolutely annoying to propagate a notion that India will not be able to put pressure on Pakistan with acquired information that links terrorism to Pakistan.

Pakistan is USA's problem and we simply as a good member of global village try to not rock the boat. That does not mean India is at mercy of Pakistan and USA – nothing could be further from the truth.

So, coming back to the point. US should hand over Headley to India because of his involvement in the murder of 166 innocent civilians.

[Rangudu]

Extradition is a red herring. For example, I don't see India extraditing Kasab to the US just because US citizens were killed in the attack.

What GoI should insist on are (1) Direct access to Headley, so that our sleuths can ask him questions and get his answers first hand, (2) Copies of all Headley's recorded calls, emails etc. with his ISI/LeT handlers, (3) Copies of videotapes, maps etc. made by Headley that are in FBI posession etc.

[Raju]

US cosul chief who was dining at the Four seasons hotel, in the vicinity of Taj or Oberoi, was suddenly dragged away by 4 personal security officers at around 10 p.m. much against his wishes from a rather full banquet hall which was also attended by my friends sister who was a witness to the goings on. It must be due to Headley and others they were completely abreast of the minutest moves of the perpetrators so as to be able to slip one of their own men away from harms way in the nick of time.

they were keeping tabs on this group from the very start through Headley or some one else.

Is there any verification of this in any of the local Mumbai press?

It's my personal experience since one of my friends sisters who happened to be at the same banquet hall. He said this to me over the phone. Didn't even bother to check the mumbai press for it. What is conspiracy theory about this ?

[Karan Dixit]

Extradition is a red herring. For example, I don't see India extraditing Kasab to the US just because US citizens were killed in the attack.

What GoI should insist on are (1) Direct access to Headley, so that our sleuths can ask him questions and get his answers first hand, (2) Copies of all Headley's recorded calls, emails etc. with his ISI/LeT handlers, (3) Copies of videotapes, maps etc. made by Headley that are in FBI posession etc.

That is fair and reasonable.

[Rangudu]

It's my personal experience since one of my friends sisters who happened to be at the same banquet hall. He said this to me over the phone. Didn't even bother to check the mumbai press for it. What is conspiracy theory about this ?

This is a CT because of the following simple logic:

1. Let's assume that what you are saying is true. If your friend's sister saw it, then so must have everyone in that hall

2. For some reason, not one of those people saw fit to report this very newsworthy observation to anyone in the media

3. If someone had said this to media people, the fact that this has not been reported at all can only be because a large number of people conspired to keep this from the public

4. When people conspire, you have a CT

The bottomline here is that "US plotted 26/11" is just about as substantiated as "4,000 Jews got some message to not show up for work on Sep 11, 2001" or "Al Qaeda is a CIA created entity" etc.

No one is arguing that the US conduct with Headley is above board. However, to jump from any piece of evidence suggesting bad faith action by the US to "CIA planned 26/11" type conclusions is not worthy of discussion, I submit.

[ramana]

Raju soon after the attack there were report of the consul being whisked away. It could be in the news and timeline thread. Or in Mid Day archives.

[Raju]

I am checking the archives right now. Let me see.

[Malayappan]

Four Seasons seems to be in Worli. If so it is not exactly in the vicinity of Taj or Oberoi.

Having said that, it is quite possible that the security detail of the Consul General decided to evacuate him, having heard of the attacks in CST and Leopold Cafe. By 2230 hrs practically all those in this business (security, police, army) would have learnt that the terror attack was on.

[Rangudu]

Four Seasons seems to be in Worli. If so it is not exactly in the vicinity of Taj or Oberoi.

Having said that, it is quite possible that the security detail of the Consul General decided to evacuate him, having heard of the attacks in CST and Leopold Cafe. By 2230 hrs practically all those in this business (security, police, army) would have learnt that the terror attack was on.

No Malayappan, the above clearly proves that 4.15 CIA agents morphed into 8 TSPian Abduls who used a NASA made rubber spacecraft that morphed into a dinghy to teleport themselves from Langley to Cuffe Parade and perpetrate the 26/11 attacks...

[Raju]

found this in the archives that I have, don't have an web link to it.

i have an absolutely shocking bit of information. met a friend of mine for the first time tonight after the attacks. his sister was having dinner at four seasons at an event hosted by the dutch consul general. around 8.15, six security guards came in and picked up the american consul general and took him out of the hotel. no 'sir we need to leave', they caught his arms and legs and took him straight out. when confronted by hotel staff they said 'stay away, this is an internal matter'. the dutch consul came up to them and the american consul told him to leave as well, which he did. this is in front of at least 80 witnesses and a full hour and 15 minutes before the first attacks. my friend's sister sent my friend a message saying what has happened and that he should 'go home immediately'

this means the americans knew about the possibility of an attack at least 2 hours before it happened. and if they did inform indian authorities it means it was totally ignored. its extremely shocking and just makes me more angry. i hope this comes out in the media soon