Telangana Monitor

[Stan_Savljevic]

I thought I will stay away from the rona-dhona circus, but could nt resist the idea of taking a few potshots. Please do spell schadenfreude properly when you want to address me though.

2. Who wants to table the resolution to form Telangana state out of Andhra Pradesh? GOI or INC party? When did they become one and same?

On the one hand, GoI is pilloried for being indifferent and letting Potti Sriramulu die in 1953, and on the other hand, if GoI jumped in rather quickly over KCR, that is anathema. On the one hand, a state which was pushed closer towards formation by a single person doing fast is considered glorious and is celebrated. On the other hand, if another person from the same state uses the same technique to further divide the state, that is anathema. On the one hand, some of the posters on this thread noted in the link language thread that they have no insecurity cos they are the no. 2 state in terms of population. And on the other hand, the very same posters in this thread display an exemplified sense of insecurity incommensurate with facts on the ground and expect to be taken seriously, especially with their conspiracy theories.

Some of them claimed in that thread that they have no language based insecurities like the Tamil folks display often by burning buses and indulging in self-immolation. IIRC, it was called fanatical linguistic chauvinism. On the other hand, folks from this state indulge in fast to death, arson, and forgetting what happens on the ground, if the circus on this thread is not linguistic chauvinism, what else is beats me.

On the one hand, they post conspiracy theories without proof and on the other hand, whine about schaden-freude and what not when people rotfl at such heightened sense of takleef. If the Telugu atma-gauravam is making all this happen, a Tamil suya-mariyadhai that has existed for far longer should not be displayed equally vehemently, especially when "the other shoe is expected to drop at some later point in time?!"

On the one hand, they want all Telugu-majority speaking areas to be unified into a Greater Andhra, much like what the chinese model looks like. And on the other hand, there are posters [not just on this forum, but i have looked at many other fora too] who lay claim to Ganjam, Behrampore, Bareilly, Raichur, and even Madras, but when census records show that almost all of these places had a good minority of Telugu-speakers but also a far higher % of other language speakers, somehow that causes takleef. There are allusions to kingdoms, history etc., but if an equal-equal could be done with the Cholas, Cheras, Pandyas, Pallavas, all hell will break loose. I am sure that will be branded as fanatical linguistic chauvinism of the Tamils, yea shite sherlock.

3. Conceptually, forming small states may not a bad idea. But who and why political parties are allowed to create regional divisiveness in the name of small states?

Did parties create divisiveness or did feelings of divisiveness created parties such as TRS that are acting as outlets of divisive opinion? There are people here who want a referendum, but when voters clearly voted the first time TRS stood on a separate Telengana demand, that was ignored. You want a referendum to be done 100 times?! After 2 rounds, most people will do the chalta hai, big deal standard voting patterns.

5. Independent India inherited the administrative and political regions from British. Why these politicians and political parties demand unification of Puducheri in Tamil Nadu, Yanam in Andhra Pradesh, Dadra in Gujarat, Dayyu & Daman in Maha Rashtra.

I dont know about other UTs, but there is hardly a clamor for uniting Pondichery into TN. Most people are comfortable with Pondi as is, if there is an impression that TN is demanding unification, it must be in the editor's head rather than on the ground. In fact, all the major parties have a good presence in Pondi, even INC. Not even the presence of JIPMER is making people in TN eye Pondi with a slant eye. TN and Pondi are two parallel systems, as long as a Madras to Pondi bus runs many times a day, I would expect most people to not care either way.

[Rony]

Telangana decision will backfire

The arbitrary announcement by the UPA government that it would bifurcate Andhra Pradesh, paving the way for the creation of Telangana, is a classic example of political hara-kiri by the party. The decision to divide the state is not only against the mandate of the 2009 Parliament and assembly polls but has been arrived at without any rationale or adequate consultations

What is appalling is that the announcement was made after a meeting of the Core Committee and without even the Union Cabinet’s endorsement. Worse, if such a proposal was to be announced, then Parliament, which is in session, was the appropriate forum. The move not only lacks constitutional sanction but is also devoid of propriety. The announcement will precipitate a crisis in many other states where similar demands have been pending.

The manner in which the issue has been handled demonstrates that the decision-making mechanism in the government is faulty. Why else would a decision, which is likely to severely affect the Congress in its best state, be taken so casually? There has been no reference point on the subject from the State and neither has the Centre put forward any proposal in Parliament. But a decision has arbitrarily been taken. Why?

The mass resignation of MLAs and MPs from Andhra is an indication of how sensitive the matter is. In the 2009 assembly polls when the Telangana Rashtra Samiti contested on the issue of a separate state, it got only 10 out of 117 seats in the region. Clearly, the mandate was for a unified Andhra. So whose ‘wise’ advice did the Congress and the government’s leadership listen to on this issue? In any case, the Congress now has a lot to worry about in its 125th year.

[Stan_Savljevic]

And Acharya-ji, did the brf members who are in HYD and understanding the situation or the grand-daughter of PVNR family report anything back to you yet?! Thanks in advance.

[Abhi_G]

Rajmata's sphinx like silence is stunning, as the ministers and MPs argue and slam each other. Classic divide and rule game undergoing.

[Muppalla]

>>>I do think the process of indification of Hyd muslims is proceeding at a glacial pace without making any waves.
What does that exactly mean?

You need to know about razakars - Kasim Razvi and his progeny MIM which still rules the old city.

Basically the hold of razakars on hyd muslims is still strong as during nizam. CBN when in power tried to dent it to some extent but the congress rule has pushed it back much further.

If you see the population Greater Hyd it may not be true. However, if you see the election results of Greater Hyd, MIM, INC and TDP split the 150 seats almost equally among themselves. However, there was a fraud in the way the 150 divisions are created. The places where IMs are there inspite of lower population then number of divisions are more and where as the areas beyond Panjagutta, Kukatpally and Patancheru the new population centers the number of seats are less. As per Devendra Goud, 60% of population is covered by 40% of seats. If that is adjusted MIM's hold will be reduced.

[bahdada]

I doubt the Centre is that powerful - I mean what can it do if a state decides to leave the union because of a bone-headed Central decision?

Please tell me that you live in United states of blackwater and Goldman Sach. Because I cant even see how an Indian living in India is soooooo clueless.

Seriously? You must need get out more or read a few more threads here.

[Muppalla]

PP Uvacha -
http://www.politicsparty.com/smallstates.php

[ShyamSP]

Rajmata's sphinx like silence is stunning, as the ministers and MPs argue and slam each other. Classic divide and rule game undergoing.

Mataji will be the savior and the unifier of the divided nation. In order to that she has to first understand what the "winning" solution would be based on how people are reacting. Two seconds before the solution is apparent to everyone, she will announce it as her decision thereby saving and unifying the nation

Rebel Congressmen are not antagonizing Sonia. They are pointing to KCR/TRS, UPA, PC, Moily, Ahmad Patel, Pranab Mukarjee.

Poiting to UPA is interesting that resulted in suspicion on PC and DMK to misdirect anger.


I'm glad that Senior Congress MP made this comment for the record. It is important rebel congressmen to direct anger at right target.

Sonia cheated us, says Rayapati
http://www.greatandhra.com/ganews/viewn ... t=&scat=16
Congress MP from Guntur Rayapati Sambasiva Rao made a sensational statement on Sunday saying Congress party president Sonia Gandhi had cheated the Andhra and Rayalaseema leaders by conceding the Telangana.

“It was our mistake to adopt a one-line resolution authorising Sonia Gandhi to take a decision on Telangana. She betrayed our faith by announcing creation of Telangana without taking our views and feelings into consideration,” he said.

Rayapati said the Congress MPs from both the regions conveyed their feelings to the Congress high command. “We hope that at least now, the high command would respect our sentiments,” he said, and appealed to the people to carry out the agitations in a peaceful manner.

[munna]

Now for the third post in the series: Political angle to the demand for smaller states.

INC, ever since the independence of India has been loathe to share power with other parties. The regional parties like Akali Dal, J&K National Conference, Dravida Parties and other actors like communists have witnessed active hostility from INC whenever they managed to dislodged the party in state assemblies. INC as per a chronicler was badly burnt by the 1947 whereby it learnt the lesson to never let any other challenger compete with itself for power within the new republic. This often led to centralized decisions and unwanted interventions in state politics which generated atleast two major backfires in the shape of Punjab and J&K.

The INC policy has always been to act as the only vehicle of political mobilization and arbitration to decide the power dynamics within the nation. However this platform or rainbow coalition of INC was decimated by the shift of OBC and upper castes to other parties during 1980 and 1990s. The atrophied Congress receded from the national electoral scene for a good 8 years. This contraction of INC's clout and rise of BJP prompted a new coalition of BJP dominated by cow belt core ably assisted by two southern allies from AP and TN, with AP (TDP) being more reliable than amma. The elections in 2004 failed to throw up any clear winners and proved to be the zenith of regional satraps and regional players like CPM/I who were all busy with their own agendas rather than run a national government. The veto on any and every policy option by regional players within and outside the INC proved to be a big handicap for governance. Come 2009 with Lalu, Mulayam, CPM and many other regional satraps decimated the only challenge worth its name to the 'Hi Kaman" was from the internal players. YSR's untimely death and the hasty/youthful exuberance by Sh Jagan Reddy prompted the "Hi Kaman" to remedy the situation by granting the decades old wish of "Telangana" at the same time reminding all regional satraps and party boffins within INC that its Delhi who is the boss and not any other.

BJP and INC have repeatedly urged the voters to choose between either and opt out of the any regional party's support. They both are predictably realigning and reshuffling the national polity to remove the regional bias of the current westmintser system parliament by atrophying the power of states to dictate to centre. It might be a big ego shock and climb down for the powerful communities in the states hitherto dominant at the centre or the ones who have played a crucial role in recent elections (read AP) but fortunately or unfortunately this is how our polity works!

In my views BJP and INC have an understanding at a higher level and this will only mean dismembering of two large political states of UP and AP.

[Muppalla]

(altert -Extreme local Andhra politics)

For non-AP ites - Regarding Rayapati Sambasiva Rao -

There are two Kamma MPs namely Rayapati Sambasiva Rao and kavuri Sambasiva Rao who are very very senior congress MPs just stuck to party inspite of never being in the cabinet. They are from Guntur and Krishna district where Kamma caste is considered TDP's forte and inspite of all of their clan in TDP they stuck to INC.

With Rayapati's anti-Sonia statement and lagdapati Rajgopal's 225 MLA move one can understand that the money bags of Coastal AP are shuffling.

Rayapati is a very big Tobaco barron. Guntur Dt. produces about 60% of India's tobacco per 1980 stats that I know. All the cigarette companies like Phillip Morris etc know Guntur Dt. very well.

My personal reading collected from friends and hence TWIW - Ramoji Rao ( the biz man of Priya pickels, movie producer and EtV owner) another kamma from Krishna Dt. did not believe in CBN (Rayalaseema ) after the exit of NTR (Krishna Dt.) and as a backup propped up LokSatta with Jayaprakash Narayan. Ramoji is extremely staunch anti-INC ideologically. If folks like Rayapati and and lagadapati moves out of INC on a United-AP front there will be re-alignment of Politics in AP. TDP might be ended.

[vina]

This may establish a symbiotic relationship and mutual progress can be achieved

Err. Nice wordsmithing to put some lipstick on a parasitic relationship. Kind of difficult to refute accusations that central funds got in the name of Telengana's backwardness gets spent in Coastal and Rayalseema because of the political balance. I will buy that argument, coz that is how most govt finances work, right from the Govt of India finances to state level. Funds go into a huge sink called "Consolidated Fund" out of which all sorts of parasites and the powers with greatest political clout drink long and deep.

And I do strongly to think that "barren areas" the future. The future is industries and not farming. So where do you have the land to go set up large scale industries . Where will it be easier to acquire land ? In the "barren areas" or rich farmland areas with high population densities.

Telengana (along with Northern Karnataka) should industrialize and industrialize at break neck speed. That is the only way forward. With Telengana now becoming the master of it's own destiny, I think now the focus will be on getting large scale industry into that area , trade and infrastructure. Done properly, Telengana can industrialize heavily within 20 years and whiz past coastal Andhra in per capital income.

Coastal too has strong natural advantages (now gas, a coastline, existing industrial base , capital etc). If they break with that "autarkic" "soverign country" paradigm that drove states in India thus far, they too will grow by leaps and bounds.

That is why I think this break will liberate the growth energies of everyone and will be all for the best.

So dont worry. Have curry . This one is for the best. As for politcos and kaala dhan stashed away in Hyderabad losers, foggedabout em . They aren't worth 2 seconds of an aam Abdul's time.

[Muppalla]

In my views BJP and INC have an understanding at a higher level and this will only mean dismembering of two large political states of UP and AP.

munna ji,
I totally understand the thrust and you know that I am openly idealogical towards BJP from the 2009 election times. What ever they do, they have to do with utmost care. Creating a serious states re-organization committe with a thrust of making smaller and having a upper limit of Sq Km etc that will devide every state including TN should be persued. Not the current hit and run approach.

For the record, the senior most BJP leader Venkiah Naidu made an ambigous statement implying against split of AP. This is the first time and Telangana BJP is furious. ABVP in Hyderabad in with TRS and the same ABVP in Vizag is with United-AP. The senior leadership needs to understand the psyche.

Things regarding AP-split has literally backfired across the political spectrum. Future BJP central leadership cannot avoid the biz lobbies as they are not a socialist outfit.

[Dasari]

This may establish a symbiotic relationship and mutual progress can be achieved

Err. Nice wordsmithing to put some lipstick on a parasitic relationship. Kind of difficult to refute accusations that central funds got in the name of Telengana's backwardness gets spent in Coastal and Rayalseema because of the political balance. I will buy that argument, coz that is how most govt finances work, right from the Govt of India finances to state level. Funds go into a huge sink called "Consolidated Fund" out of which all sorts of parasites and the powers with greatest political clout drink long and deep.
And I do strongly to think that "barren areas" the future. The future is industries and not farming. So where do you have the land to go set up large scale industries . Where will it be easier to acquire land ? In the "barren areas" or rich farmland areas with high population densities.

Telengana (along with Northern Karnataka) should industrialize and industrialize at break neck speed. That is the only way forward. With Telengana now becoming the master of it's own destiny, I think now the focus will be on getting large scale industry into that area , trade and infrastructure. Done properly, Telengana can industrialize heavily within 20 years and whiz past coastal Andhra in per capital income.

Coastal too has strong natural advantages (now gas, a coastline, existing industrial base , capital etc). If they break with that "autarkic" "soverign country" paradigm that drove states in India thus far, they too will grow by leaps and bounds.

That is why I think this break will liberate the growth energies of everyone and will be all for the best.

So dont worry. Have curry . This one is for the best. As for politcos and kaala dhan stashed away in Hyderabad losers, foggedabout em . They aren't worth 2 seconds of an aam Abdul's time.

Who stopped its destiny? Indian democracy is based on representative form of govt. Telangana has 119 representatives in a state that has 52 rayalaseema representatives and 123 Andhra representatives. It is a fair representation for its 42% population. What more you need to control the destiny. Speaking about parasites, can you explain us what kind of parasites these 119 MLAs are?

Industries will not form out of vacuum. Once the golden goose is killed there are no more eggs. The fact is that telangana without Andhra has very bleak future. It hardly has any resources. Due to its physical topology it can't even secure 100 TMC of Godavari water even though more than 2000 TMC of water is going into ocean every year. People like KCR use their foul mouth to say that the delta area will become desert. In any case, by looking at the spontaneous response from AR area, even if Telangana is formed, Hyderabad will be either UT or joint capital.

BTW, the one day match from Sri lanka and India at Vizag is cancelled.

[munna]

I totally understand the thrust and you know that I am openly idealogical towards BJP from the 2009 election times. What ever they do, they have to do with utmost care. Creating a serious states re-organization committe with a thrust of making smaller and having a upper limit of Sq Km etc that will devide every state including TN should be persued. Not the current hit and run approach

Indeed Mupallaji its high time that we create a State Reorganization Commission to handle the task of dealing with the demand of "Aspirant States" however in cases where there are no strong movements or historic trail of a demand for state it would not make sense to divide just for the sake of it. While I understand the anger of unified AP supporters we should not drag TN into it when they do not have a locus standii!

For the record, the senior most BJP leader Venkiah Naidu made an ambigous statement implying against split of AP. This is the first time and Telangana BJP is furious. ABVP in Hyderabad in with TRS and the same ABVP in Vizag is with United-AP. The senior leadership needs to understand the psyche.

This is a clear indicator that a part of the state has made up its mind and leaving the aspirations unfulfilled will create a dangerous chasm for unwanted actors to play around with.

Things regarding AP-split has literally backfired across the political spectrum. Future BJP central leadership cannot avoid the biz lobbies as they are not a socialist outfit

But the biz lobbies also have to give a deal to BJP! If they are that serious about unified AP then they should immediately ditch TDP/CBN/PRP/LSatta and make BJP the other pole of AP polity. Entrusting only one national party with power in the state with discredited state level opposition has made the voice of AP weaker in national politics (stronger in INC ironically but still subservient to "Hi Kaman") classic case of putting all eggs in one basket.

[vina]

The fact is that telangana without Andhra has very bleak future. It hardly has any resources. Due to its physical topology it can't even secure 100 TMC of Godavari water

This is something I could never understand. Pray tell me, how does is a separate Telengana or Rayalseema "without" Andhra or Karnataka or Tamil Nadu or Maharashtra or even Delhi for that matter ?. No one is going to put any barriers to capital flows or skill flows. Capital flows to places which get best returns.

So tell me , what does the IT/Vity industry or the pharma industry in Hyderabad today get from Andhra (other than people ?) . Is that going to stop ?. No . Not by any stretch.

What will however stop is the political games and skulduggery that the Rayalseema and Coastal guys indulged in Hyd and the unsavory business practices that it became known for, precisely because they controlled the politics and power structures and felt that they could bend the rules and hence did extremely shady things. That part will stop. Now to do biz in Hyd, you will have to bend, bow and scrape and instead of not paying any Baksheesh (coz, you were the guy in power anyway and a baksheesh taker)

[Muppalla]

Let us discuss BJP in AP on some other thread. The party is on an extremely useless and wrong path there with no chance even from a rare-view mirror.

Indeed Mupallaji its high time that we create a State Reorganization Commission to handle the task of dealing with the demand of "Aspirant States" however in cases where there are no strong movements or historic trail of a demand for state it would not make sense to divide just for the sake of it.

I disagree with the above statement. It got to be every state or leave it with Darwin theory of survival of the fittest. Otherwise it will not fit the bill. Indian politics has reached ( atleast in economically progressing states) or reaching a state of one run by lobbies/clouts etc. You have seen the BJP growth in KA with the help of Bellary Reddy bros etc. The trend of some lobbies, clouts with a flavor of castes and clans is the future. If a state is small and there are some large states ( as non-aspirant ones) it will create imbalance. it should be divide everything or status quo is my opinion.

[SaiK]

eh hum.mm.. How about a separate state for Bangalore? Karnataka has Mysore anyway to cherish?

[munna]

Indian politics has reached ( atleast in economically progressing states) or reaching a state of one run by lobbies/clouts etc. You have seen the BJP growth in KA with the help of Bellary Reddy bros etc. The trend of some lobbies, clouts with a flavor of castes and clans is the future. If a state is small and there are some large states ( as non-aspirant ones) it will create imbalance. it should be divide everything or status quo is my opinion.

Interesting take on the matter will give thorough thoughts before forming my opinions.

[Rony]

Congress sniffs Jagan role in Telangana fire

But saying the party high command would not take lightly the revolt by its leaders in the state, sources claimed the 'mastermind' of the political drama was Y. S. Jagan Mohan Reddy, CM hopeful and the son of former Andhra Pradesh chief minister, Y. S. Rajasekhara Reddy.

But Congressmen, both in New Delhi and in Hyderabad, are quite clear that the force behind the entire "resignation drama" was Jagan Mohan Reddy, for he wanted to show his clout and get the national leadership to replace Rosaiah with him.

Decision on Telangana driven by Rahul's plan to split UP

Several Congress leaders feel that the Centre's decision to form Telangana is part of a longterm strategy chalked out by the AICC general secretary, Mr Rahul Gandhi, who wants to gain hold over Uttar Pradesh by dividing it into Bundelkhand and Purvanchal.

The Centre's decision on Telangana would bring life to agitations in the two regions of UP and would aid Mr Gandhi's political strategies.

According to the Guntur MP, Mr Rayapati Sambasiva Rao, the Congress president, Mrs Sonia Gandhi, also told the MPs from Andhra and Rayalaseema that a conscious decision was taken in view of the national perspective and the long-term interests of the party.

[vina]

eh hum.mm.. How about a separate state for Bangalore? Karnataka has Mysore anyway to cherish?

Stop trolling. Karnataka is fine. Bangalore was part of the old Mysore state anyway!.

Coorg despite all the whines one hears is too small, too tightly integrated and really pretty well off to go away. And I would guess the coastal areas of Karnataka are fine as well. The only problem is the more "Telengana" like North Karnataka , the really dry areas and which were part of the old Hyderabad and former Deccan Kingdoms which suffer massive development deficit.

I was hoping that the BJP which came with such a strong North Karnataka support would have pulled up all the stops and put everything and thrown the kitchen sink in industralizing North Karnataka. No such luck. It is as if , instead of the traditional Mysore -Bangalore belt politicos, we have people from the North, but continue doing exactly the same thing. It really has been a terrible disappointment, especially in the flood relief and the Reddy Bros fiasco.

That really is the problem. Even if you make a politico from a deprived/underdeveloped area as the CM/ a large share of power, nothing will change. They get to enjoy Baksheesh from the more developed areas (just the incumbents get replaced, but nothing changes structurally). It is only when there is NO Baksheesh to be swindled (ie, the underdeveloped areas are told to sink or swim), the politicos from the underdeveloped areas will be forced to CREATE BAKSHEESH (industrial baksheesh is of orders of magnitude more than in a decrepit, crumbling feudal state, all the Baksheesh Takers know it very well), before they can swindle it.

[svinayak]

And Acharya-ji, did the brf members who are in HYD and understanding the situation or the grand-daughter of PVNR family report anything back to you yet?! Thanks in advance.

Too fluid situation. No info yet. I plan to tap a relative who is a INC MLC in AP assembly.

[ShyamSP]

Mild Civil war like situation in AP. Government brokedown completely.

- Assembly was adjourned indefinitely as no MLA cares of the functioning of the government

- Nobody is listening to CM. Center is not listening to CM.

- A few students died from fasting and that couls flare up more protests.
Obviously, all education institutions are shutdown and not functioning.

- Bandhs across for last 3 days. Looks like it may continue to whole next week if situation is not contained

- Lagadapati Rajagopal was arrested during peaceful march. People going in support of him are prevented from doing peaceful rallies.

- People started to attacking houses of elected leaders who haven't resigned yet.

- There are attempts to block Water to Tamilnadu and road/rail transportation to other states.

[ravit]

225 mlas is exaggerated figure. But he may be positioning himself as CM of a new party/coalition that comprizes of all MLAs from TDP, INC and PRP from non-Telangana regions along with some Telangana MLAs.

You really think its possible even if situation goes to a trust-vote? TDP/INC MLA's supporting him as CM cutting across party lines? So is this a new party you are assuming he would try to form?

I am thinking all this firing on him is direct consequence of the petty fights he and KCR had like nizam vs andhra culture, who knows eating quality rice ... from quite some time. He was attacked and ridiculed quite a few times even before all this chaos started.

Amusing thing on tv today. When his followers are being arrested in Hyderabad, news-reported there was saying that they might be from Vijayawada/Guntur, went near police van and asked him "Where are you from and why?". He replied "Ranga-Reddy and Samaikyandra". Reported was dumbstruck and asked "From RangaReddy and you need Samaikyandra?" and he said Yes.

[SandeepA]

Vina
Can you please explain why you call my post 'wordsmithing'? I have still not seen you explain how a compartmentalization of developed and underdeveloped regions will be beneficial for the latter. Especially since you seem to think that a new state will not mean new 'barriers'.
Also please explain if there is a limit to how much we can compartmentalize? Telangana feels cheated so separates from AP, next Khammam feels cheated and separates from Telangana, next Bhadrachalam feels cheated and separates from Khammam, the village separates from the town, the suburb separates from the downtown..so forth. Where does this end? All I am saying is there is a line to be drawn somewhere and that was drawn 50yrs.
If you look harder you will see that the heartburn in AP is for losing Hyd and not the rest of upstream Krishna and Godavari areas. Yet Telangana's biggest ruse for separate statehood seems to be water siphoning by AP! What gives? Dont we know the answer?

[Dasari]

I was hoping that the BJP which came with such a strong North Karnataka support would have pulled up all the stops and put everything and thrown the kitchen sink in industralizing North Karnataka. No such luck. It is as if , instead of the traditional Mysore -Bangalore belt politicos, we have people from the North, but continue doing exactly the same thing. It really has been a terrible disappointment, especially in the flood relief and the Reddy Bros fiasco.

Thank god they didn't take your prescription. Definitely Karnataka is fine. Or who knows,had the capital of Karnataka been in north Karnataka or the capital of Maharastra in Marthwada area (former Hyderbad state), with all the investment in respective capital, they would have done Telanagana on the rest of Karnataka and Maharastra? Is it not?

They get to enjoy Baksheesh from the more developed areas (just the incumbents get replaced, but nothing changes structurally). It is only when there is NO Baksheesh to be swindled (ie, the underdeveloped areas are told to sink or swim), the politicos from the underdeveloped areas will be forced to CREATE BAKSHEESH (industrial baksheesh is of orders of magnitude more than in a decrepit, crumbling feudal state, all the Baksheesh Takers know it very well), before they can swindle it.

Though I believe separation is based on flimsy reasons, I never thought it is this ridiculous.
So under separate Telanagna, with developed Hyderabad as capital, why would they develop Karimnagar when they can readily enjoy Bakseesh in Hyderabad. Is this a struggle so that the Hyderabad Baksheeh should be confined to Telangana leaders only? So what it means is that Telangana should not get Hyderabad. Otherwise tell us how the so called industrialization of Telangana will happen.

[Dileep]

eh hum.mm.. How about a separate state for Bangalore? Karnataka has Mysore anyway to cherish?

On that count, What about reviving the old Cochin state?
(Though I am a 'settler' in that regard)

BTW, who posted an article talking about "balkanization of India", which is laughed off then? I think it is happening. Let us follow the principle of the Kerala Congress party "split as you grow, grow as you split"

[kvraghav]

eh hum.mm.. How about a separate state for Bangalore? Karnataka has Mysore anyway to cherish?

Pray tell me,how would you create two states from karnataka with Bangalore in one state and Mysore in the other.They are both 100Km apart and both in southern karnataka.i am still confused and looking at the map.

[vina]

I have still not seen you explain how a compartmentalization of developed and underdeveloped regions will be beneficial for the latter

I did in reply to SaiK's trolling. Read that part about Bakseesh

So under separate Telanagna, with developed Hyderabad as capital, why would they develop Karimnagar when they can readily enjoy Bakseesh in Hyderabad.

Let me answer these two along with the one below.

Is this a struggle so that the Hyderabad Baksheeh should be confined to Telangana leaders only?

Absolutely! . Why do you think otherwise. This is ALL about Hyderabad's Baksheesh. The Telegana leaders came out openly and said that "Hyderabad is the only resource of Telanaga ..etc etc".

See basically this is a attitude /mental block/conditioning problem. The business model of ALL Indian Public Entities , whether central govt, state govt, districts, or counties or even wards is all the same. It is BAKSHEESH.

In India democracy really doesn't work the way it should. Decisision making and Financial power is NOT decentralized downwards ( Except for village Panchayats. In fact, most activists clearly point point that a village Pnachyaat enjoys far more autonomies and power than most district, city governments). The name of the game is to suck up power and finances from multiple levels lower down and centralize it. The idea is you create a massive cookie jar which you can dip your greedy hands into if you come into power at the state level.

Name ONE , JUST ONE decently sized city where there is an elected mayor with enough power to run his own budget and affairs of the city and not be run at the whim of the state govt !. Name ONE local council. It will be diffucult to come up more than half a dozen even if one could locate one or two examples. And why will the politicos let go ?. That is where the cookie jar is!. No point in stealing from some grubby panchayat in some small village. You get your hands into the centralized state level cookie jar in Hyderabad, you roll in big bucks!.

The business model behind all this is WEALTH TRANSFER. Rob Peter to Pay paul. You pay taxes (land, local taxes .. whatever), it is never going to spent on you. You buy land pay corporation taxes and everything (including everyone in the development), you might get sewage laid 20 years later . Why is that ?. As long as you are looking at a model of development or anything which is based on Wealth Transfer Baksheesh, this is the fundamental problem.

Your minds are conditioned on the Mai Baap politicos to centralize and give out development Baksheesh to you. That is why.

Also please explain if there is a limit to how much we can compartmentalize?

So to what level can you go down to ?. Why down to a ward level. If you effectively devolve down to the lowest levels of counties/wards, and devolve powers including policing, zoning, taxes and education including healthcare , you will see real responsibility and improvement.

You will be voting for something tangible. Questions such as Will I get water?. How much development should be there (in terms of zoning) etc ? What do my kids learn at school ? Will I have healthcare ? How are my taxes spent ? Where the EFFING hell are the roads, since you charge lifetime tax on the vehicle you bough and have massive taxes on every liter of fuel you bought. Why do I spend 2 hrs on the road every day ?

If you vote on those , you will NOT vote on Chiranjeevi's cool Dance Moves or some wholly bogus "Andhra Pride" of NTR or this or that , which will make ZERO change to your life this way or another. The sad part is , you dont think on those lines in normal times, but vote on those lines only in times of extreme distress like the famines and you go and vote in the opposition as a protest vote and with nothing changed, the same pattern will repeat.

In a civilized democracy, politics will be about that and you will vote on REAL issues that matter. Do that , and you will not have the Telengana kind of politics. Then it becomes irrelevant whether Hyderabad is in Telengana or Andhra or in Maharashtra, because you will be self sustaining and demand your RIGHT for what you pay and NOT Baksheesh.

If Coastal and Rayalseema folks are perturbed because they feel loss of Hyderabad is a potential loss of opportunities, believe me, the answer is to DEMAND development close to home. Not keep giving me Hyderabad Baksheesh so that I continue having a free ride!

[shaardula]

is india getting more sdre-ied?

underlying concerns are water, resources and oppurtunities for telangana people. but over time and change in what oppurtunities mean, some of these might have changed.

in the current scenario, the main concern/bone of contention is hyderabad.

one fear is non-telangana people will be driven out. KCR has been making gory statements for a atleast a couple of years now. things like blood will flow and so on...

non-telangana are worried about their investments in hyderabad. some of these are big people. but even small ordinary people have investments in hyderabad, which are likely to be a good fraction of their personal fortune. and they are concerned about it.

the political bigwigs, big business, agro lobby might have their own reasons, but imo, it is the rabble rousing by kcr, and the fact that most people have no faith in him as a leader and see him as a joker, are the main reason there is so much apprehnsion and opposition by ordinary people - employeed middle class/ small business types.

imo, this involvement of the sdre in blood & money, makes it that much harder for the "elites" to run away with the pot. when personal wealth is involved at such a dispersed individual level, lot of other historical and cultural "narratives", become that much more cohesive. otherwise people can maintain these H&C memories irrespective of the political lord, as they have been doing forever. by themselves H&C, may or may not have been sufficient, in current times.

i dont think we should shy away from the money angle. bcoz this is personal wealth of a lot of sdre that is perhaps at play here. not a bad situation at all. and perhaps a novel situation for india, which was used to dealing with H&C and grievances types of issues so far. telangana was the archetypal old problem type before. it has now morphed.

i think in the long run, if kcr is genuinely interested in the concerns of telangana people, should understand that sdre is now involved and he may or may not be able to force his way in the traditional way. he should prolly try to shame the sdre into doing right the underlying issues(see first line) in the telangana issue.

[Muppalla]

225 mlas is exaggerated figure. But he may be positioning himself as CM of a new party/coalition that comprizes of all MLAs from TDP, INC and PRP from non-Telangana regions along with some Telangana MLAs.

You really think its possible even if situation goes to a trust-vote? TDP/INC MLA's supporting him as CM cutting across party lines? So is this a new party you are assuming he would try to form?

I am thinking all this firing on him is direct consequence of the petty fights he and KCR had like nizam vs andhra culture, who knows eating quality rice ... from quite some time. He was attacked and ridiculed quite a few times even before all this chaos started.

Amusing thing on tv today. When his followers are being arrested in Hyderabad, news-reported there was saying that they might be from Vijayawada/Guntur, went near police van and asked him "Where are you from and why?". He replied "Ranga-Reddy and Samaikyandra". Reported was dumbstruck and asked "From RangaReddy and you need Samaikyandra?" and he said Yes.

I am not sure but there are indications in that direction. Had they introduced the resolution, it would have got defeated and the voting would be on regional lines. Parties are dead at this time.

[RameshVarma]

I got some queries regarding the constitutional steps that needs to be taken for formation of the New State:

The Constitution says that proposal(bill) for formation is new state can be introduced in the parliament only on the
recommendation of the President of India. If the proposal in any form affects any state (in terms of area, boundaries)
then the bill has to be referred to the legislature of the affected state by the president of India for the views of state legislature within a
stipulated time frame as specified by the president.

How are the views of the state legislature taken into consideration, is it by passing a resolution in the state assembly?

What if the state doesn't respond back with the stipulated time frame?

what if the views expressed by the state legislature are not favorable for the bill initiated, can the bill be still be passed in
the parliament?

[RamaY]

I thought I will stay away from the rona-dhona circus, but could nt resist the idea of taking a few potshots. Please do spell schadenfreude properly when you want to address me though.

2. Who wants to table the resolution to form Telangana state out of Andhra Pradesh? GOI or INC party? When did they become one and same?

On the one hand, GoI is pilloried for being indifferent and letting Potti Sriramulu die in 1953, and on the other hand, if GoI jumped in rather quickly over KCR, that is anathema. On the one hand, a state which was pushed closer towards formation by a single person doing fast is considered glorious and is celebrated. On the other hand, if another person from the same state uses the same technique to further divide the state, that is anathema. On the one hand, some of the posters on this thread noted in the link language thread that they have no insecurity cos they are the no. 2 state in terms of population. And on the other hand, the very same posters in this thread display an exemplified sense of insecurity incommensurate with facts on the ground and expect to be taken seriously, especially with their conspiracy theories.

Some of them claimed in that thread that they have no language based insecurities like the Tamil folks display often by burning buses and indulging in self-immolation. IIRC, it was called fanatical linguistic chauvinism. On the other hand, folks from this state indulge in fast to death, arson, and forgetting what happens on the ground, if the circus on this thread is not linguistic chauvinism, what else is beats me.

On the one hand, they post conspiracy theories without proof and on the other hand, whine about schaden-freude and what not when people rotfl at such heightened sense of takleef. If the Telugu atma-gauravam is making all this happen, a Tamil suya-mariyadhai that has existed for far longer should not be displayed equally vehemently, especially when "the other shoe is expected to drop at some later point in time?!"

On the one hand, they want all Telugu-majority speaking areas to be unified into a Greater Andhra, much like what the chinese model looks like. And on the other hand, there are posters [not just on this forum, but i have looked at many other fora too] who lay claim to Ganjam, Behrampore, Bareilly, Raichur, and even Madras, but when census records show that almost all of these places had a good minority of Telugu-speakers but also a far higher % of other language speakers, somehow that causes takleef. There are allusions to kingdoms, history etc., but if an equal-equal could be done with the Cholas, Cheras, Pandyas, Pallavas, all hell will break loose. I am sure that will be branded as fanatical linguistic chauvinism of the Tamils, yea shite sherlock.

3. Conceptually, forming small states may not a bad idea. But who and why political parties are allowed to create regional divisiveness in the name of small states?

Did parties create divisiveness or did feelings of divisiveness created parties such as TRS that are acting as outlets of divisive opinion? There are people here who want a referendum, but when voters clearly voted the first time TRS stood on a separate Telengana demand, that was ignored. You want a referendum to be done 100 times?! After 2 rounds, most people will do the chalta hai, big deal standard voting patterns.

5. Independent India inherited the administrative and political regions from British. Why these politicians and political parties do not demand unification of Puducheri in Tamil Nadu, Yanam in Andhra Pradesh, Dadra in Gujarat, Dayyu & Daman in Maha Rashtra.

I dont know about other UTs, but there is hardly a clamor for uniting Pondichery into TN. Most people are comfortable with Pondi as is, if there is an impression that TN is demanding unification, it must be in the editor's head rather than on the ground. In fact, all the major parties have a good presence in Pondi, even INC. Not even the presence of JIPMER is making people in TN eye Pondi with a slant eye. TN and Pondi are two parallel systems, as long as a Madras to Pondi bus runs many times a day, I would expect most people to not care either way.

Stan-ji,

EDITED

I do not see any relation between the first quoted point EDITED. The author was asking who does PC represent when he made separate Telangana state? Was he representing GOI, then he should know the constitution and can create a Telangana state, and the process starts with UPA submitting a resolution in the parliament. If he was representing INC, then who is he to announce a separate state?

Same with the second quote. That statement doesn't say it is KCR who is creating the divisiveness. You are right, and even I said that in one of my earlier farts, that Telangana state must have been created in 2003. But that didn't happen by the same Sonia-ji because it didn't suit her political objectives. PC announced it now "as a birthday gift from Sonia".

The only valid point in my is the third point about unification of various UTs into adjoining states. It was my EIDTEDand I didnt translate it correctly. The author was asking why the politicians DO NOT ask for such an unification instead of divisive politics. Sorry about that.

[RayC]

Stan-ji,

Which part of your paki brain wrote this post?

I presume the sane part to counter the insane stuff.

Or maybe I am in the clouds and have not understood a fig!

[Stan_Savljevic]

RamaY and Muppalla, I know this is an emotional issue and this emotion-stuff has been given as the excuse for doing this rona-dhona circus. But I posted what I felt without a care for emotions and what-not, as I see it. Much of this is a circus incommensurate with facts on the ground. My personal opinion is that: if regions have to be dragged into modernity by their ear, so be it, whether it be South TN, North Karnataka, Vidharba or Telengana. At the end of the day, we need more people out of poverty in the shortest time-frame possible. Anything and everything is fine as long as the end result is overall development, socio-economic-political. I am not going to cry two hoots over Tamil pride (despite my linguistic fanaticism) because TN has to be split. A strong case exists for uplifting a significant fraction of Indians out of their 19th century livelihoods, and everything is par for the course... That applies equally well to Telengana as well as many other regions in India.

Added: That said, Ramadoss (PMK)'s demand is stupid. Only because North TN is the more industrialized belt powered by madras. South TN is the one that needs growth. In the end, Ramadoss' lust for power in his lil kingdom and South TN's need for speed both coincide. So even if I can split hair over his logic, I would like Ramadoss to succeed, if he can do KCR-type stunts. Seriously, it is time Ramadoss did something for India than just promoting health advisories that few people care to hear. This will also coincide with Mu. Ka's need to legate two lil kingdoms to his two fighting sons. Peace for all, growth for some, I hope.

[SwamyG]

>>>I do think the process of indification of Hyd muslims is proceeding at a glacial pace without making any waves.
What does that exactly mean?

You need to know about razakars - Kasim Razvi and his progeny MIM which still rules the old city.

Having lived many years in Kanchangbagh, and having to go through Chaderghat bridge (and its surroundings) everyday to work, with dad's work spot in Chandrayangutta, looking at the environs as Owaisi was building the Medical College in Kanchangbagh; I know little bit of Old City and MIM's control.

But what does "indification of Hyd muslims" mean? Does that phrase mean integrating muslims from Nizam's state into the modern construct India? Or does it mean "hindufication" of "Islam" ?

[munna]

I got some queries regarding the constitutional steps that needs to be taken for formation of the

How are the views of the state legislature taken into consideration, is it by passing a resolution in the state assembly?

The views are taken on record by asking the state assembly to convene and debate the issue. The proceedings and the resolution passed by the assembly within the stipulated time frame are considered to be the "views" of the assembly.

What if the state doesn't respond back with the stipulated time frame?

Too bad for the state to take a "panga" with the union! But on a serious note they have to reply within stipulated time because that is the only time that they will be formally consulted before the division of the state.

what if the views expressed by the state legislature are not favorable for the bill initiated, can the bill be still be passed in
the parliament?

The views will be given due respect just like my HOD of Geography used to give to the annual compilation of Cadastral Sheets at the end of year viva voce. In short union can go ahead and create all sorts of grotesquesly shaped anti-national and anti-atmasamman states much to the chagrin of states. But by precedence such a tactic has never been resorted to ensure goodwill and amity amongst states/regions.

[RamaY]

Stan-ji,

No one disagrees on the need for a Second State Reorganization commission. It should be done the same way redrawing of assembly and parliamentary constituencies that was done few years ago.

Redrawing of internal maps with the sole objective creating/destroying political fortunes must be fought against. This is exactly what INC is doing.

If a Hyderabad, Mumbai, Bangalore, Chennai, Delhi, Kalkota (yet to get this right, apologies RahulM ji) can demonstrate Indian pluralism with people from different regions and languages living together and prospering, then what is wrong in creating states with equal population or equal area, and removing the language and secarian barriars?

Before anything happens, the leadership must nationalize all vital resources that cause unnecessary rift between different regions. My list is -

- River Systems: Nationalize all water resources. Create a central fund to build smaller reservoirs (1-10 TMC capacity) in each district and connect them with dams and irrigation systems. Each TMC can support irrigation in 10,000 acres.

- Minerals: Nationalize them. All the mine leases will be distributed among all states equally.

- Education: Standardized education with central support for mid-day meals and syllabus.

Doing things in a hap-hazardous way, as it is done by INC always, will not help the nation.

[SwamyG]

- River Systems: Nationalize all water resources. Create a central fund to build smaller reservoirs (1-10 TMC capacity) in each district and connect them with dams and irrigation systems. Each TMC can support irrigation in 10,000 acres.

- Minerals: Nationalize them. All the mine leases will be distributed among all states equally.

- Education: Standardized education with central support for mid-day meals and syllabus.

Doing things in a hap-hazardous way, as it is done by INC always, will not help the nation.

I agree to most of it, except the blaming INC part. I especially like the smaller reservoirs suggestion. The best suggestion. My grandfather used to talk about an old dictum (actually an observation) "don't stay in a place that does not have a temple". On prodding he explained, usually back in the old days temples had "kulams" {water tanks} adjacent to them. Apart from helping the water table in the small area it also was used as a water supply for the small local population. But back then the population was far less than what we have now and so a small temple tank could sustain a small population.

Again looking back in the history; Kings played a large role in the development of culture. They built temples; encourage arts and crafts in their Kingdom. Essentially it was State patronization of arts and culture. GoI's State re-organization in the 50s could be looked as a continuum of such a thing - State patronization to preserve and strengthen some identified cultures.

[kmkraoind]

Since I lived in Kavadiguda and have relatives in Mehaboobnagar districts and some friends in Warangal. IMO, people of Hyderabad/Secunderabd are not that enthusiastic about creating Telengana and none of my friends from Telegana are not hardcore and does not wish separate state nor they are against it. They are just curious are observing how things fan out in the next few days.

At present when KCR are fasting, only a few Telangana politicians and some students took active role. IMO, students are expecting jobs and incentives and spoils once Telangana is created portraying themselves as fighters for the cause (probably they are observing benefits of freedom fighters). Nonetheless, most of the people are neutral, they are not against nor actively participating in Telangana's cause. Definitely, the movement seems to be hijacked by KCR and his unknown behind the scene supporters.

Unlike Uttarakhand, Jharkand, Chattisgarh, nor aspiring Eastern UP, Vidharbha, geography does not favor at all bifurcating AP, it needs to be trifurcated, which does not favor Rayalaseema or Kosta people.

Only silver lining is that MIM is damn against Telangana, because the so-called settlers have not faced the bruataility of Razakars and hence are not that staunch supporters of Hindu's cause (in other words they were moderate). While Telengana people faced the bruataility of Razakars and its preceding Islamic rule. Even Sammaka and Sarakka are the victims of islamic fundamentalism. You can hear folklores depicting the atrocities of Islamism, so Telangana people developed a psychic mentality for tit for tat attitude and they will give a harsh answer to any muslim's mischiefism. While whole India is fighting against British, people (call it Hindus) of Nizam were actively fighting against Nizam. The fight against Nizam by these fighters are unmatched or such fighting is not seen by any princely state that were ruling parts of India at that time. This thing will bipolarize people leading for the way for BJP rule in future. Even Islamists know this fact that is why MIM is aghast the idea of Telangana. If MIM opposes, then definitely it is good for India, so from this angle I support separate Telangana state.

[satya]

From Delhi Gossip Circles :

Post YSR ,Center ie politicos across the political spectrum found themselves vulnerable with no reliable person at helm or 2nd in command to take control of Hyderabad( Hawalabad). So was decided to make Hyderabad a union territory with man from Dilli Durbar looking after the treasury affairs of rajas n maharaja . But Hyderabad has its own power center and its not happy with 2nd round of wing clipping and is in no mood to give up coupled with Reddy Junior doing his bit ( vinash kaale virprit budhhi act ) joining the battelfield on side of Hyderabad power center . Battle still on with backroom negotiations in full swing , someone gotta give ie shrinking space of Hyderabad power center ( Reddy Jr is walking on very thin ice) , question is how much. Telangana was a smokescreen .
Oh yea there are demands of other newer states , well yes but at right time , in rajniti u never act as per the timing of your oppnonent so when Behanji writes off a letter demanding one more state , its a big Pause aur fir paisa kahan hei haven't u seen our babus haven't yet got their new Prados yet !