Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

pgbhat · Postby **pgbhat** » 18 Dec 2009 01:38

Anti-corruption body bars 248 people from leaving Pakistan

Pakistan's interior minister today found himself in the unusual position of being asked to bar himself from leaving the country as the fallout from a supreme court verdict continued to rock President Asif Ali Zardari's government.

Ananya · Postby **Ananya** » 18 Dec 2009 02:14

Is Zardari in TSP or in UK partying with Mush :wink:

Mahendra · Postby **Mahendra** » 18 Dec 2009 02:29

Ananya wrote:Is Zardari in TSP or in UK partying with Mush

What are you happy about? both were RAW agents, it is our loss if 10%ti too lands in the UK

MurthyB · Postby **MurthyB** » 18 Dec 2009 03:29

Kind of weird that on Dec. 16th, the Pakistani supreme court struck down the NRO, with the lead prosecuter citing a case in India of one Smt. Indira Nehru Gandhi :twisted:

2. Mr. Salman Akram Raja, learned counsel appearing on behalf of petitioner in Constitution Petition No. 76 of 2007 argued that:—

b) Legislative judgment cannot be enacted by the Parliament. [ Smt. Indira Nehru Gandhi v. Raj Narain (AIR 1975 SC 2299)].

So now Zardari can't be prosecuted as he is presidente and has immunity. So he can never become un-presidente, lest he be arrested! How will he enjoy his 1.5 billion. It's like that Raaabert joke:

Liqueeed aaxygen me daal do: liqueeed jeene nai dega, aaaxygen marne nai dega

Anyway, too bad since Zardari seemed a tad less Paki then the others...

Dipanker · Postby **Dipanker** » 18 Dec 2009 03:50

MurthyB wrote:Anyway, too bad since Zardari seemed a tad less Paki then the others...

That's why the Pakjabis hate him because he is not a Islamist like them.

Karan Dixit · Postby **Karan Dixit** » 18 Dec 2009 03:58

I agree. Zardari at least can pass for a human being. You cannot say that about Zaid Hamid and other Pakis.

saip · Postby **saip** » 18 Dec 2009 04:20

Coup in Pakistan? CNN -- breaking news

Appears to be just speculation

Virupaksha · Postby **Virupaksha** » 18 Dec 2009 04:33

saip wrote:Coup in Pakistan? CNN -- breaking news

Appears to be just speculation

twitter is all over it, without any confirmation, seems gilani has been detained in a airport.

http://twitter.com/#search?q=coup%20pakistan

Ananya · Postby **Ananya** » 18 Dec 2009 04:54

On CNN Hussain haquani has claimes that Military is behind the supreme courts decession and he is not having any news and cannot comment on anything now

Lilo · Postby **Lilo** » 18 Dec 2009 04:56

or it could be a psy ops by the paki ministers against the NRO ?

shynee · Postby **shynee** » 18 Dec 2009 05:02

CNN:

No Coup in Pakistan. Defense minister kept from leaving the country.

saip · Postby **saip** » 18 Dec 2009 05:38

Who has the power to prevent defence minister from leaving? Without the army backing I dont think the PM or the home minister (Malik) would do it leave alone an airport security abdul. But then even malik is on the list, is he not?

VinodTK · Postby **VinodTK** » 18 Dec 2009 06:14

Pak sells Gurudwara land to army

Ananya · Postby **Ananya** » 18 Dec 2009 06:16

TOI has not yet reported only NDTV has flashed the news of the Defence minister.

All the 200+ guys including malik is involved.

Intresting day ahead

Dawn reports this.

Mr Mukhtar, his wife Nilofar Mukhtar and secretary Javaid Asif were stopped by the Federal Investigation Agency’s immigration staff when they were going to board the flight PK-852 on Thursday night.

chilarai · Postby **chilarai** » 18 Dec 2009 06:22

Even Scott Adams caught on to the #3 taliban

http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/drone_war/

After the tenth time drones kill the number three operations guy, only an idiot is willing to take that promotion. The smart terrorists ask for transfers to the Quality Control Division to wait things out.

Ananya · Postby **Ananya** » 18 Dec 2009 06:22

Strange a minute ago dawn had the info :?:

now this is gone... :roll:

Ananya · Postby **Ananya** » 18 Dec 2009 06:24

WASHINGTON: The US State Department said on Thursday that if Pakistan continued to deny visas to hundreds of US officials and contractors, Washington’s efforts to help stabilise the violence-ridden country could be affected.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... tan--bi-10

kasthuri · Postby **kasthuri** » 18 Dec 2009 06:37

Pakistan's top ministers barred from leaving the country after amnesty dropped

Rehman Malik, the interior minister, whose own department oversees the exit control list, is also among those barred from leaving the country. But it remained unclear whether Mr Zardari would be prevented from leaving Pakistan.

Babar told The Daily Telegraph.
“We are going to defend ourselves. The president has made it absolutely clear that he will stay.
“Let them chase us out and let the whole world see who is doing the chasing.”

Is it not obvious to see who will be doing the chasing if we watch someone being chased out??!! :eek:

Suppiah · Postby **Suppiah** » 18 Dec 2009 07:50

^ reminds me of the Tamil comedian Visu's line about what happens if the doctor that treats mad fellows goes mad himself..
:rotfl:

arun · Postby **arun** » 18 Dec 2009 07:56

SSridhar wrote:All Sarkari ulema fall sick
Chairman Ruet-e-Hilal Committee Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rehman, Maulana Abdul Ghafoor Hyderi and others have been rushed to hospital after falling ill during Ulama Conference here. According to reports, a meeting of ulama was underway at the residence of Maulana Abdul Ghafoor Hayderi in parliament lodges when they served breakfast. Mufti Muneeb, Maulana Abdul Ghafoor Hyderi, Liaquat Baloch, Haji Hanif Tayyab and Mian Aslam fell ill soon after taking the breakfast and shifted to Poly Clinic.

I suspect Taliban hand because these guys issued a fatwa against warning not to do so by the TTP.

This article in the Daily Times would suggest that these were Ulema who had a rethink about being “Sarkari Ulema” and collaborating with the Government.

The “Sarkari Ulema” were reportedly at that time attending a completely different Ulema and Mashaikh Conference to endorse the Governments standpoint on terrorism.

From that standpoint the attempt to do them in with “poisoned halwa” may not have been initiated by the Taliban:

Friday, December 18, 2009

Dissident’ ulema rushed to hospital after eating halwa

ISLAMABAD: Nine clerics were hospitalised on Thursday after they ate ‘poisoned’ halwa. According to details, some clerics decided to boycott the Ulema and Mashaikh Conference, saying they did not endorse the government’s stance on terrorism, jihad, drone attacks and the Taliban. They had gathered at Abdul Ghafoor Haideri’s residence to discuss the conference. The guests were served the halwa when Ruet-e-Hilal Committee Chairman Mufti Muneebur Rehman reached Haideri’s residence to take the “dissidents” into confidence over the draft declaration. All of them immediately fell sick, however, Mufti Muneeb left the premises and fell unconscious when he reached the conference. Meanwhile, according to hospital sources, the clerics are said to be in stable condition. tahir niaz/mahtab basher

Daily Times

Pranay · Postby **Pranay** » 18 Dec 2009 08:03

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/18/world ... ?ref=world

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — In an exceptionally heavy barrage by American drones in Pakistan, five Predator aircraft fired 10 missiles at suspected militant compounds along the border with Afghanistan on Thursday. Along with an earlier attack, at least 15 people, including 7 foreigners, were killed, Pakistani security officials said.

The stepped-up drone strikes came as the civilian government felt the repercussions of a Supreme Court decision on Wednesday that declared unconstitutional an amnesty for thousands of politicians accused of corruption.

On Thursday, the National Accountability Bureau, acting with remarkable speed, prohibited 247 people, including some cabinet ministers, from leaving the country, as corruption cases could be revived against them.

They included Defense Minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar, who was stopped at the Islamabad airport, along with his wife and secretary, from boarding a flight to China, where he was scheduled to make an official visit. He complained publicly that he had not been informed of the ban.

SSridhar · Postby **SSridhar** » 18 Dec 2009 08:14

A Weaker Zardari - Edit in The Hindu

He is the least popular of the country’s political leaders, already weakened by several controversies. It is unfortunate that Mr. Zardari is also the only Pakistani leader today who has articulated a bold new vision for ties with India and has had the courage to stand up to jihadist militancy.

SSridhar · Postby **SSridhar** » 18 Dec 2009 09:15

There are tensions between the US & Pak: Pentagon

“Our relationship with Pakistan is complex,” the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defence for Afghanistan, Pakistan and Central Asia, David Sedney, told reporters after a meeting between the defence delegations of the two countries.

The 18th Defense Consultative Group Session -- the first since 2006 -- was led by Undersecretary of Defence for Policy, Michele Flournoy, and Pakistani Defence Secretary Lt Gen (rtd) Syed Athar Ali. The first such meeting was held in 2002.

“There have been a lot of ups and downs over the years, and there are a lot of areas where we still have a lot of open questions and where there are, for lack of a better word, issues that continue to fester from the past. While it’s unfortunate, that’s also understandable,” Sedney said.

“There are tensions on both sides... There’re things that Pakistan wants that we’re not able to do, things that we want Pakistan is not able to do,” he said in response to a query.

He said sometimes the discussions between both sides got “very, very difficult” while at times they are “very, very positive“.

For Pentagon, he said, focus now is on supporting Pakistan in its internal struggle against extremism and helping build a long-term strategic partnership that looks beyond the current light to a Pakistan that plays an important regional role in security.

“It was a frank and open discussion,” Sedney said.

The Pentagon is helping Pakistan improve its intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities, both through cooperative efforts that include border-cooperation centres, sharing of intelligence information, and also in the provision of additional equipment that the Pakistani government has asked for, he said.

Sydney said the US was confident that Pakistan has the ability to maintain security of their nuclear weapons.

“This is an area of course that’s very sensitive, important to the government and to the people of Pakistan. We are saying that we have confidence in the government, the people and the military of Pakistan,” he said.

During the meeting, Pentagon told Pakistani officials that the US role in Afghanistan is going to continue.

“That was a message that was very important to the Pakistanis, because they don’t want us to leave Afghanistan, as we did in 1989... We made that point,” Sydney said.

vera_k · Postby **vera_k** » 18 Dec 2009 09:34

Insurgents Hack U.S. Drones

Militants in Iraq have used $26 off-the-shelf software to intercept live video feeds from U.S. Predator drones, potentially providing them with information they need to evade or monitor U.S. military operations.

Vivek_A · Postby **Vivek_A** » 18 Dec 2009 09:38

How retarded is the media? The insurgents used off the shelf software to read unencrypted signals. How is the same as "hacking"?

SSridhar · Postby **SSridhar** » 18 Dec 2009 10:10

arun wrote:This article in the Daily Times would suggest that these were Ulema who had a rethink about being “Sarkari Ulema” and collaborating with the Government.

The “Sarkari Ulema” were reportedly at that time attending a completely different Ulema and Mashaikh Conference to endorse the Governments standpoint on terrorism.

From that standpoint the attempt to do them in with “poisoned halwa” may not have been initiated by the Taliban:

Dissident’ ulema rushed to hospital after eating halwa

. . .The guests were served the halwa when Ruet-e-Hilal Committee Chairman Mufti Muneebur Rehman reached Haideri’s residence to take the “dissidents” into confidence over the draft declaration.

So, it was not the Taliban but the 'Angels' from Aabpara after all.

Also goes to prove that the Taliban warning has resulted in a division among the ulema community.

SSridhar · Postby **SSridhar** » 18 Dec 2009 10:13

Call Pakistan's Bluff
Excerpts

. . . We have waged a purely defensive battle on our own territory. Such a reactive and passive stance was understandable in the era of the 1990s when we were trying to revive and liberalise our failing economy. But that stance is unsustainable beyond a point. It calls into question the Indian state's will to safeguard its vital national interests and the life of its citizens. . . .

The initial response to Pakistan-sponsored terror attacks could be air power and naval power or special forces centric. These should be just, focused, precise and proportionate responses that serve as warning shots and place the onus of further escalation squarely on Pakistan.

It is time India called Pakistan's nuclear bluff. Kargil clearly highlighted that there is no one-step nuclear escalation ladder in South Asia. The weight of deterrence in Pakistani military thinking is premised on its perceived parity in conventional military force with that of India's. This must be addressed on an urgent basis. Frankly it would be far better for India to deter such an attack than deal with its consequences. Deterrence, however, mandates a clear communication of resolve to respond. It is here that well-intentioned declarations of peaceful intent and abhorrence for war from our leadership could unfortunately have the opposite effect of inviting more such attacks.

ArmenT · Postby **ArmenT** » 18 Dec 2009 10:19

Vivek_A wrote:How retarded is the media? The insurgents used off the shelf software to read unencrypted signals. How is the same as "hacking"?

90% of "hacking" is just finding a backdoor that no one thought to close. For instance in the 70s and 80s, a lot of OSs came with a default superuser account and password that most people never bothered to change upon installation. So a "hacker" would simply write a script to dial into a bunch of numbers and try the defaults and voila. Most of the script kiddies can't program worth diddly, but they have prewritten scripts written by someone else that try a variety of exploits. Script kiddies blindly run such scripts on machines without knowing how they really work, but media calls them "hackers".

In this case, the designers simply didn't bother to encrypt the data feed for whatever reason, expecting that only the controller would read the signals. Probably figured that they were on a separate non-public frequency or something. As they say, security through obscurity is no security at all.

Karna_A · Postby **Karna_A** » 18 Dec 2009 10:26

SSridhar wrote:Call Pakistan's Bluff

TSPA is like a drunk mad dog, with Keeyanee the last generation of half sense leaders. Everything after that are unthinkably worse.
The only solution is to adopt the Samson option and make 5 other countries pay for TSPs mistakes. Every time the mad dog bites, its master(s) must be whipped together with neutering the dog.

SSridhar · Postby **SSridhar** » 18 Dec 2009 10:30

This ulema conference to condemn suicide blasts creates other problem apart from splitting the ulema community vertically.

The Sarkari ulema are demanding Shariah as a quid-pro-quo for the fatwa.

Nothing new in this demand, it has been there since (before) 1947. Mr. Jinnah himself promised that. But, it is the implication when raised in a meeting ostensibly convened to issue fatwa against suicide bombing, that raises fears. This is also the demand of TNSM and all parties supported it in Swat in early 2009. It was said that non-implementation of Shariah was the root cause of terrorism. The Government implemented Nizam-e-Adl etc. Now, the clerical community raises the inconvenient (to some may be, but reasonable to all the rest of pious Pakistanis) demand and the Taliban should be mightily pleased. The Sarkari clerics also cover their backsides from the Taliban by raising this demand. After all, the fatwa can be rescinded anytime after shariah demand is concede to. Anyway, taqiyyah is permitted. This is what the Ruet-e-Hilal committee chairman wanted to explain to the 'dissident ulema' and went to their conclave only to eat the ISI-supplied poisonous halwa and fall sick. The ISI probably didn't expect the Sarkari chief cleric to go there or yield to the temptation of eating the halwa and so didn't warn him sufficiently perhaps. Anyway, it is all a good story.

The clerics also demanded the government fulfil the constitutional requirements regarding implementation of sharia in the country.

In a joint declaration issued at the end of the conference, they said all religious and political parties, and the people of the country demanded the imposition of sharia.

ArmenT · Postby **ArmenT** » 18 Dec 2009 10:35

amol.p wrote:Pakistan Reported to Be Harassing U.S. Diplomats

They shouldn't complain then, when they are denied visas to the United States. Not enough embassy staff = 3 year long wait to be told that their visa is denied for some reason. :twisted:

sum wrote:
American helicopters used by Pakistan to fight militants can no longer be serviced because visas for 14 American mechanics have not been approved,

All these years and Pakis cant even do basic repairs their helos?

No tech transfer was done to the Pakis for good reasons. Can't have the Pakis leaking tech to the Chinese, can we. Same deal goes with the new F-16s the Pakis got. They have all sorts of tamper proof seals + regular checks by USAF personnel to make sure that no hanky panky has been attempted. Guess why Paki F-16s cannot retract their wheels below 2500 feet and have reduced thrust?

SSridhar · Postby **SSridhar** » 18 Dec 2009 11:09

Waziristan operation has greatly affected economy

The secretary {Finance Secretary Salman Siddique} informed the committee that the government had envisaged substantial foreign investment from October onwards, but the numerous terrorist attacks had dashed all such hopes, as investors had put investment activity on hold.

Nihat · Postby **Nihat** » 18 Dec 2009 11:26

The recent restrictions of the Likes of Rehamn Malik more or less explain his anti-India rant in recent times. He probably anticipated that NRO would be struck down by the SC and him and many others would be clamped down on , perhaps in his last attempt to gain Goodwill he though of dipping into the widespread anti-India sentiment already existing in TSP. Perhaps he should have taken a clue or two from the Zaid Hamid on how to properly gain goodwill in TSP by basing India.

Atleast his recent troubles will shut him up now, he'll have far bigger problems to contend with than imaginary indian interference in Balochistan

ArmenT · Postby **ArmenT** » 18 Dec 2009 11:34

Multiple National Birds seen in Pakistan:
US drones rain down missiles in NW; 17 killed

In the deadliest attack on Thursday evening, at least 15 people including seven foreigners were killed and several others injured when five US drones fired ten missiles on the suspected base of Taliban militants in Ambor Shaga and Degan area of the North Waziristan Agency.
Sources said the attack was the second of its kind in a day as the morning attack had also claimed two lives.
According to details, US drones targeted houses of tribesmen and when people gathered at the site, four more drones fired nine more missiles, which resulted in huge casualties.

svinayak · Postby **svinayak** » 18 Dec 2009 12:04

http://news.google.com/news/more?cf=all ... 1M&topic=h

Pakistan Government Dismisses Rumors of Military Coup (Update1)
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By Farhan Sharif and Khalid Qayum

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... pLk4&pos=9

Dec. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari’s spokesman denied rumors of a coup after the defense minister was barred from leaving the country.

“There is no coup,” spokesman Farhatullah Babar was quoted as saying by Reuters. He confirmed the remark to Bloomberg News and declined further comment. Opposition lawmaker Siddiq-ul-Farooq said there “is no chance at all of a coup.”

Speculation mounted after Pakistan’s Supreme Court this week scrapped an amnesty protecting Defense Minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar and thousands of others from corruption charges. Mukhtar, who was among 248 officials and politicians placed on a travel-restriction list, said on GEO Television that he was told he couldn’t leave the country.

Political and legal squabbling may weaken the unpopular Zardari at a time when the U.S. is pressing his administration to extend a war with Islamic militants. Farroq, spokesman for former premier Nawaz Sharif’s Pakistan Muslim League, yesterday called on the president to resign.

When quizzed by CNN’s Wolf Blitzer about whether the travel ban signaled a possible coup was imminent, Pakistani ambassador to the United States Husain Haqqani replied: “I hope not.”

Civilian Rule

Haqqani said the country’s top military leaders had made it clear they were committed to civilian rule. Aside from media speculation, there were no signs to suggest any military takeover was imminent, he told CNN.

The euro rose against the dollar, ending three days of losses, as investor appetite for higher-yielding assets rose following the Reuters report. The euro gained to $1.4384 as of 2:50 p.m. in Tokyo from $1.4338 in New York yesterday, having earlier fallen as low as $1.4306.

The benchmark KSE100 Index was little changed, having fallen as much as 0.2 percent before trading 0.2 percent higher at 10:47 a.m. in Karachi. The gauge is up 60 percent this year.

“I won’t put much weight to this issue,” said Nasim Beg, who manages the equivalent of $190 million in stocks and bonds as chief executive officer at Arif Habib Investments Ltd. in Karachi. “Democracy is settling in, the rule of law is strengthening and this is just about some speculative investors who panic too easily.”

The National Accountability Bureau, Pakistan’s anti- corruption agency, revived charges against officials and politicians after the Supreme Court’s ruling two days ago. That had protected Zardari, Interior Minister Rehman Malik, Mukhtar and about 8,000 others from graft and criminal charges.

Mukhtar told GEO Television that he had planned to travel to China and said he would raise the issue in parliament.

Dilbu · Postby **Dilbu** » 18 Dec 2009 12:38

The GUBO biatch is throwing tantrums after taking the money. Throw away that vaseline bottle unkil and show her how it is done the old fashioned way.

US says Pakistan holding up visas

Pakistan has been holding up visas for US officials and contractors and continued delays could have an "impact" on the effectiveness of aid programmes in the country, the US State Department said on Thursday.

Hundreds of visa applications and renewals for US personnel have been delayed and the United States has raised the problem with Pakistan's senior leadership, deputy spokesman Robert Wood said.

The New York Times reported the delays were part of a campaign by Pakistan's intelligence services and military to harass US diplomats who have been pushing for the Pakistani government to intensify the fight against the Taliban in Pakistan.

Dilbu · Postby **Dilbu** » 18 Dec 2009 12:41

Fizzled IED mubarak attempt.
Dozens escape unhurt in suicide attack on DN's hujra

LAKKI MARWAT – Dozens of people miraculously escaped when a suicide attacker detonated his explosives at the hujra of District Nazim (DN) advocate Qudratullah Khan in Esakkhel village on Thursday.
The suicide bomber aging 14/15 years was killed in the blast but he could not succeed to kill others. The DN was meeting people who had come to his hujra to greet him on his return from Saudi Arabia after performing Haj there. The DN’s father Haji Muhammad Aslam Khan who holds an important position in Marwat Qaumi Jirga and always supported the government’s actions against militants also remind unhurt in the attack. It was a suicide attack and the blast took place when the bomber stumbled while entering the verandah to get close to the DN and his father”, DPO Ayyub told.

Dilbu · Postby **Dilbu** » 18 Dec 2009 12:51

Pak-India trade potential remains unexploited

LAHORE: Actual trade potential of Pakistan and India remains unexploited as it is tilted overwhelmingly in favour of India which refuses to import Pakistani goods by road while Islamabad has granted some permission.

India-Pakistan trade is unnaturally small, currently about $2.3 billion a year. Pakistan accounts for less than one per cent of India’s total trade, and Delhi accounts for less than five per cent of Pakistan’s overall trade.

India enjoys a huge trade surplus with sales to Pakistan of around $1.90 billion against imports of less than $300 million.

Experts point out that with transportation cost increasing, it is more feasible for the two countries to conduct trade through road instead of adopting sea route that results in heavy transportation cost.

Minor correction needed in the title. Pak-India trade potential remains 'unexploded'. And given half a chance bakis will make sure it is fully exploded.

Philip · Postby **Philip** » 18 Dec 2009 12:59

The situ is thus.A willing rent boy for half a century plus has enjoyed the "partnership" with his chief patron the US (while allowing his other patron China to use him as well,taking cash from both!) for many favours in return.The rent boy has willingly submitted to being the docile partner,performing any trick that his master wanted.Unfortunately for the rent boy right now,Master is playing very dirty,wanting to bugger rent boy in unspeakable manner,which might do everlasting damage to the health of rent boy,leaving him with a crippling life long injury,even the loss of a 'limb" or two,or even worse make him "impotent" in the macho stakes with his bete noire,India.Rent boy Pak is consequently Pak and rightly squealing to master and high heaven ,trying to wriggle out of the suffocating "clinch" which master has over him.Master's toys which are stinging rent boy on every part of his body are so painful that rent boy might even renege upon his sordid agreement and deal with master.The consequences are frightful as if rent boy goes berserk,no one can predict what he might do in his tortured state of insanity.

What is definite is that a change is on the cards in the relationship that rent boy has with master.Will this age old love story end in disaster and tragedy?

arun · Postby **arun** » 18 Dec 2009 13:02

SSridhar wrote:There are tensions between the US & Pak: Pentagon

“Our relationship with Pakistan is complex,” the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defence for Afghanistan, Pakistan and Central Asia, David Sedney, told reporters after a meeting between the defence delegations of the two countries. {Snipped} ..............................

The complete transcript of the December 17th 2009 news briefing held by David Sedney is available here:

DoD News Briefing with David Sedney from the Pentagon

The US is certainly laying praise on the Islamic Republic of Pakistan rather thickly :

Before getting into that however -- especially since I'm here on record, on camera -- I really want to stress, and this is the same thing that Undersecretary Flournoy stressed at the beginning of our talks, our heartfelt appreciation for, admiration for the courage of the Pakistani military and the Pakistani people as they face the very severe extremist threat and as they suffer.

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