Telangana Monitor

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 18 Dec 2009 05:18

SwamyG wrote:
Oh okay. Thanks. Yes, several modern countries follow Westminster System. Parliament is called Sansad. But I am sure you mean more about Indianizing the politics? What does the end result look like in your mind?

I don't understand the exploitative part either. Be it Collector or something else; in any form of government there is a representative of the government that will collect taxes. Even the Cholas had an administrative system where the Kingdom had to collect taxes from the people and had some duties towards the people.

In british times people had no way to use their political freedom to get rid of a collector if I am not mistaken; now there is some prospect of people being able to control the collector etc.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 18 Dec 2009 05:23

>>>>At the end, we need circulation of cash and stimulus packages, only difference is that this will be the Indic model -- hawala and gajaana looting.
ha ha....I tell some folks: In the West it is called Fees, in India it is called Bribe. Ultimately money reaches somebody's pockets.

BTW, just heard that Amma is saying to folks: Okay, go ahead and get money from DMK, but please vote for me onlee

Man, she is one eccentric woman. I had high hopes when she moved with some good plans and orders. She was a film star, she is a woman, she was MGR's darling and carried his legacy.......she had everything going for her in TN.....she lost it. Shame. MuKa is the luckiest guy in TN for having a great second innings.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 18 Dec 2009 05:26

KVR: Acharya ji is talking about the current times; not the British times. So we need to consider his comments as it applies to contemporary times.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 18 Dec 2009 06:33

Some of the words are being taken with literal meanings here. The word "Lazy" was used about the people in such areas by many. This word came to the forum after it was used by Maharastra CM ( at that time) Vilasrao Deshmukh during his visit to Vidharba. Vidharba has one of the largest farmer suicides in that year. He described the Vidharba farmers are lazy ones and compared to the farmers of similar arid region farmers of Gujarat.

The usage of words like "lazy" and "Dhimmi" ( BR invented ?) may be slightly offensive but not without truth.

In my belief, laziness in these areas in not really laziness. It is mostly helplessness and "no-point-in-trying-to-do-hard-work". Again beleive it or not, it was due to the Nizam times that these region folks developed such a syndrome because of helplessness and not real laziness when they can do something. Alcoholism also was rampant in these areas because of the same reason. It solidified over a period of time.

Dhimmitude is not something that some super-uber-BR-members are calling the Telanganites. The whole reason for asking a separate state is due to Dhimmitude and the saperatists there admit it in several ways. They want a separate state because they think that their backwardness is because some vulturous Coastal AP people dominating them and cheating them. The whole reason from the times of 1969 agitation is same. The Three-and-half-district vultures are the real reason for the plight of Telangana and we are incapable of defeating them at their game and hence we who hold 40% of power in AP still want to have a separate state.

If we put in a polite language, dhimmitude translates to "lack of self confidence" in this context. I can give several examples and there is definitely lack of self confidence in Telangana. It is not lack of intelligence but just lack of competetive spirit in enterprenueral world. Again there are many top ranking students/professors and successful professions in many professions.

Even is extreme suburban Hyderabad, there are substantial number of "normal old style grocery stores" that are owned by Marwari community. What is the problem with the local vaishya community? Marwaris are natural in gold biz but in Hyd you can see them is grocery selling too. By the way Marwaris have their own news paper from Hyd called as "Hindi Milap".

As I mentioned in the other thread that I have direct relations (my sisters-in-law) to deep inside Telangana region, I can give one more example from a very personal angle. My uncle's daughter (Krishna dt) married the groom ( not some so called settler) from Siddipet, Medak. The match was because they are all some deciples of some baba/guru. At the time of marriage negotiations etc., the groom's grand father made a comment as "I am scared of this rishta with Andhras as they can make my grandson as gharjamai". I was 17 at that time and was shocked as the statement came from the groom's side. However, nothing like that happened and they are all happy now. The psyche of such "lack-of-self confidence" crudely called as Dhimmitude exists in that region.

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Coming back to Coastal AP it is really East and West Godavari districts, Krishna District and Tenali Taluka of Guntur district. Beyond that it is all same. Have anyone seen the palanadu areas of Guntur districts ( Macherla, Sattenapalli etc.)? It is also backward region and farmers are very poor there. No capitalist farmers here too. EJ drives are very high in these regions. IIRC Prakasam district is notorious for highest suicide deaths of farmers. Nagarjunasagar did help these districts.

Though AP can boast of continuous Rayalseema CMs, it is the most backward region in terms of agricultural output and also industrial output.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 18 Dec 2009 06:51

SwamyG wrote:
Oh okay. Thanks. Yes, several modern countries follow Westminster System. Parliament is called Sansad. But I am sure you mean more about Indianizing the politics? What does the end result look like in your mind?

Those "modern" countries are not representative of India. India with a long civilization needs to evolve it own version. Check the non-western world thread.

I don't understand the exploitative part either. Be it Collector or something else; in any form of government there is a representative of the government that will collect taxes. Even the Cholas had an administrative system where the Kingdom had to collect taxes from the people and had some duties towards the people.

Indian system still carries lot of British laws and codes. You are aware of the penel codes etc which needs a Indian version which reflects Indian people.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 18 Dec 2009 07:51

Stan_Savljevic wrote: What are the criteria that needs to be satisfied to declare that India has decolonized? As far as I see, decolonization is a state of one's mind, so I am waiting to hear this spelt out.

Simple. You must vote for whom-so-ever Saffron Supremo says and propagate only his speeches. If you do so, you are Indic and free from colonial mindset. Otherwise, you are a un-Indic and suffering from colonial mindset.

====

Rahul Mehta: The demand became zero by 1970 and today most youngsters dont know that Saurastra ever wanted to be separate. So by 1960s, people from Saurastra were able to get plenty of jobs in Gujarat and Indian Govt.

Airavat: Saurasthra complains of discrimination

“People from Saurashtra are often taunted with titles such as “kathiawadi” and “via Viramgam”,” said former labour minister in the Chimanbhai Patel government, Mansukhbhai Joshi. A Rajkot-based leader Ratibhai Channa was one of the first few leaders who launched a campaign to seek the status of a state for Saurasthra. Joshi feels Saurashtra would flourish as a separate region. “Smaller states such as Haryana and Himachal Pradesh witnessed considerable industrial development after they came into existence. The same could happen in Saurashtra,” he said.

Another proponent of a separate Saurashtra state, Pratap Shah, says the territory has always been an economic powerhouse. According to him, the region accounts for 20-30 per cent of state’s growth in sectors such as health and infrastructure. “Saurashtra has always fuelled state’s growth,” Shah, a former state finance minister, said. “It was an ideal place for governance even when it was a separate identity. It faced a lot of injustice after it was merged with Gujarat.”

Saurashtra's population is about 1 cr to 1.5 cr and so you will always find a few dozen people making rukus. The article of AM is interesting. It puts news on Saurashtra, and then puts picture of Telangana guys asking for separate state right below the headline !!

1. One reason why Saurasthra and Kutch were merged into Gujarat was because their languages were not recognized by the union government at that time. Inhabitants of Gujarat look down upon the people of the other two regions as lazy and backward. In most of the factories located on the Ahmedabad-Kandla highway, the jobs are taken by people from Ahmedabad and not the locals. In the late '90s farmers and oil millers had raised the demand for forming a separate state of Saurashtra & Kutch. But this demand does not have popular support anymore.

2. And with an efficient leader like Narendra Modi at the helm, discrimination issues can be sorted out.

3. To begin with he needs to solve the water crisis in these two regions.

1. I am from Saurashtra originally from Rajkot, living in Ahmedabad for 25 years. Jokes apart, no one in Gujarat considers anyone from Saurashtra lazy. And for that matter, people in Saurastra have many derogatory jokes on Gujaraties (Amadavadi Haramjaadi, and many are unprintable). You still see students in colleges making such jokes at each other. But things dont go beyond that. The jobs initially went to Gujaraties as they had better education, and longer industrial experience. But education increased, Saurastra-ians did get jobs in administration, courts and then also made headways in industries.

2. Yes. And Gujarat's rainfall has been good for past 8 years pnly because of NaMo !! God blessed Gujarat because we elected a Dharmic leader !! My point is : demand for Saurashtra died out looooooong back before NaMo joined politics. But NaMo fans and anti-NaMo people have this habit. Anything goes wrong, anti-NaMo blame NaMo (eg Surat floods). And anything good happens, even if that happened before NaMo joined politics, NaMo-fans praise NaMo. I request both to note that universe does have factors other than NaMo.

3. The water crisis is because of SCjs. They are stalling Narmada dam construction because of Western lobbies paying their relative lawyers. NaMo is too small to beat them. All that is a separate topic. We will discuss it elsewhere.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Dec 2009 08:01

This an EJ magazine but the article captures the role of Church of England in its body politic.

This is no exaggeration. “The Church of England has been the religious expression of [Britain’s] independent national identity which signaled the rise of Britain as a significant world power,” observed Wilson, a British liberal whose revisionist skew on history underpins his praise of Benedict’s assault on the Church of England. “It will formally bring to an end the idea of the Established Church, and of the monarchy as that Establishment’s symbol and head” (Oct. 24, 2009; emphasis mine throughout).

Wilson—despite his reveling in what he sees as an attack on the Church of England, the British monarchy and the institution at the heart of Britain’s “independent national identity”—recognizes the central and historic role of the Anglican Church in British history. Even revisionist liberals don’t deny this history; Britain’s existence as a sovereign state and global power is inextricably linked to the Anglican Church.

The Church at Britain’s Heart

It is generally known that the Church of England was born, with Henry VIII acting as its midwife, in the mid-16th century. Less widely known, however, is that it was conceived in the 5th century. “One of the reasons why the Reformation was successful in England,” writes British historian Paul Johnson, “was that there was absolutely nothing new about it. All its elements—anti-clericalism, anti-papalism, the exaltation of the Crown in spiritual matters, the envy of clerical property, even the yearning for doctrinal reform—were deeply rooted in the English past” (The Offshore Islanders).

Even from its conception, “British Christianity,” with its spirit of independence, played a central role in the establishment of Britain as an independent power distinct in many features from its Catholic neighbors on the Continent. Early British leaders, explains Johnson, wielded English Christianity as a force for legitimizing decisions, enforcing law and establishing the credibility of government. “The church became the principle instrument of civil government; the bishops were the king’s chief advisers, his chapel servants as well as spiritual ministers. The church codified the law, and put it in writing. Even before the church came, English society was developing a definite structure: But the church supplied the literate manpower and expertise to build a state machine” (ibid.).

The contributions of “British Christianity” went beyond the fundamental yet stoic establishment of English law and government. Britain’s distinct breed of Christianity infused Englishmen, on an emotional and religious level, with a profound, enduring sense of national identity. After the Act of Appeals in 1533 established the monarch as the titular head of the church, the sworn “defender of the faith,” English kings and queens enjoyed the loyalty of English men, women and children whose “Christian” devotion inspired a willingness to sacrifice blood, sweat and tears for “God, king and country.”

“The Anglican Communion is one of the last vestiges of the old British Empire,” observed the Wall Street Journal. “Faith followed trade and the flag, planting the Anglican Church in far-flung places such as Singapore, Tanzania, Canada and South Africa” (Oct. 22, 2009). It would be hard to overstate the impact of the Church of England on Britain’s history—not only its distinct religious and moral existence, but even the establishment and evolution of its laws and government, and Britain’s expansion as a global empire.

This is the core of Britain that is not understood by our educated elite who read Vicar of Wakefield by Oliver Goldsmith and hum "Abide with me"

The core of British system is Church based. And the Indian system shuns Hinduism!

LINK : Britain

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 18 Dec 2009 08:17

RameshVarma wrote: 1. Referendum in the Nizam area after 5 or 15 years is not going to solve the problem in any manner.

2. The only thing that is going to solve the issue is better governance.

1. If referendum will bring "no change", why do you oppose it? Or, how do you say that it will bring only negative change and not any positive change.

2. If "improve governance" if solution you propose, please provide the DRAFTS of the legislations, Govt Orders, Executive Notifications etc that you think will improve this magic word "governance". The administration, courts are like CPUs working on procedure code created by the DRAFTS of legislations and Govt Orders. If you want slightest change across the board, then only known way is to change the procedure code, which needs a DRAFT. So what DRAFTS so you propose?

And can "improve governance" be done in 3 months to 6 months? If yes, good. If not, what law do you propose to reduce the fire today.

Telangana did have 40% of MLAs, because MLAs are elected. But their had too few biggies in lower courts, high courts and administration. Those areas were dominated by coastal-APites (source : word on street). People in these places after 1980 come and get promoted by nepotism only. Now MLAs alone cant do much when HCjs, other judges and IAS etc hostile.

If you think by forming a new state they are going to develop then your seriously wrong as their problems will compounded by weaker voice in the center, decrease in the investments in their region, esp Hyderabad (which I assume will become UT), they need to contend with other states for Water resources, needs to depend on other states for Power, need to pay octrai for access to coastal regions(so most of industries will be favoring a state with coastal regions and with surplus of Power),Telangana land being no Punjab or Bihar, did I mention about the Maoist problem in Telangana region.So if the region is divided then most will be lost for Telangana but not Andhra (am not sure about Seema).

If so, the referendum will return "no separation".

1. Today the problem of backwardness of not only Telangana but also other regions can be attributed to rampant corruption in the political classes.

2. In the current political setup an elected representative is only answerable to the another elected representative. If things are to improve on the ground then the elected representatives must be made accountable not to another elected representative but to a government body which needs to keep track of the development happening in the region.[for example Sarpanch as to be made answerable to Gaz. level officer in the collector's office and zilla parshid members should be answerable to IAS and MLA and MP should be made answerable not only in the assembly and parliment but to an appropriate govt. employee about the work that is being carried out]. Now some of sort of checks like these will not eliminate corruption completely but it may contain the corruption if we have at least dedicated IAS officer in constituency.

1. Yes. But it is not the political class only. The babu-class and judicial-class are also corrupt, and their corruption is also playing a role in increasing the mess.

2. Pls propose DRAFTS of the laws that you think can bring this changes.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 18 Dec 2009 08:41

yvijay wrote:Absolutely Stanji. I don’t know how we (telanganites) are dhimmified. I didn’t know I was dhimmified until people here proclaimed that. And one stalwart says that because of dhimmification they don’t study or work hard and are jealous of costa people. Contrary to that they sell their lands and work hard just to get their kids get educated and get them out of poverty.

Many people sell their lands rather than develop flats on it and sell it at much higher profits. Because in India, you need contacts (often relatives) in Govt, judges to be a builder. So a person with contacts will develop his land and then sell flats while a contact-less person will tend to sell land right away. So a person with IQ 107 like myself will say that if large number of Telanganites are selling lands rather than making flats, and if coastal-AP people are making flats, then it because coastal-APites have more relatives in Govt, courts. But those who have gift of seeing the invisible will "prove" that reason is not nepotism, but because Telanganites are dhimmies. And the legal solutions I propose is to enact laws that would reduce the power of IAS, judges, Ministers in construction industry so that contact-less persons can become builder. And legal solutions the dhimmi-certifiers give is ---- well, I am yet to read even one from them in past 10 years.

Andhra people had jump start due to education under British and they were in advantageous position, when jobs were created. And in government office as you know about the nepotism, people tend to favor from their own region. Due to this G.O 610 was created to help the locals. Here again fake domicile certificates were created and the G.O itself was never implemented properly. It’s only after KCR whipped up the agitation near 2004 elections and got substantial seats, YSR allocated funds for the irrigation projects. Before that nobody cared about it.

True. The nepotism-prone laws are The Main Reason why the milk and honey coming from Govt goes only to few homes and not whole population. Here too, those who can see the invisible oppose nepotism, but I never read any post from them opposing even one nepotism-prone law in administration, courts. And the leaders they support never opposed any nepotism-prone law in administration. And so the people who dont have relatives in Govt keep getting raw deal, they keep whining and keep getting certificate of being a dhimmi.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Dec 2009 09:11

Rahul Mehtaji, Not everyone knows how to draft laws and amendments. So please don't kill the dialog by insisting on that. You can bring it up say once in two pages.

Thanks, ramana

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 18 Dec 2009 11:30

ramana wrote:Rahul Mehtaji,

1. Not everyone knows how to draft laws and amendments.

2. So please don't kill the dialog by insisting on that. You can bring it up say once in two pages.

Thanks, ramana

0. No "jee" please

1. Drating a law is merely putting "what you want GoI to do in a given scenario" in words. And only difference between draft and usual post is -- in draft, one needs to ensure that he has covered almost all major possible scenarios.

So writing legislation draft is trivialer than 10th std maths, except intellectual property matters. One does need some technical information on what a specific law deals with. eg if you want to write laws wrt construction of multi story buildings, you need to talk to someone who has background in it. Or, one can write a law which circumvents the technical details by spelling out titles of experts who will be authorized to take decision on those technical matters. But once the technical matter is understood or clearly circumvented, draft writing is trivial than 10th std maths. Anyone who can write 1000 line software code can write law. Anyone who can write rental contract can write a draft of a legislation. Anyone who can write posts on BR can write a draft of legislation. Pleading in courts may need an LLB degree, but to write a draft of law, one needs no degree. Which is Constitution does not put any prerequisite on candidacy for MLA, MP, Minister, CM or even PM. In past, many utter illiterates made laws. eg PBUH was illiterate and so were many kings. Many lawyers and judges, in order to increase their incomes, have create a fog around laws and claimed that "you commons cant understand laws". . And due to this continuous brainwashing, we all have become "dhimmies"

. So lets cut this dhimmihood and let us all assert that "we all can write drafts of the legislations we want" and start writing drafts.

2. I am not killing conversation - I only want to make at least part of this thread productive. At the end of the day, we have to follow "rule of drafts of law" and we should learn to solve our problems with drafts of legislation. Doing everything ad-hoc is creating more problems that it is solving.

Lets say some good MLA is reading this thread. Now ONLY thing an MLA can do is to enact the draft of a legislation. So unless he see the draft of the legislations in this thread, he wont be able to help AP using this thread. So if we want this thread to become useful to an MLA who wants to help AP, we must provide drafts of the legislations that that MLA may pass in Assembly.

Likewise lets say some good CM is reading this thread or any other thread. Now ONLY thing a CM can issue is enact Executive Notifcation and expel/appoint officers. The latter is spot job - not any long term solution. So unless that CM sees the draft of the Executive Notifications, he wont be able to help people of his State. So if we want this thread to become useful to an CM who wants to help people in India, we must provide drafts of the Executive Notifcations that that CM can enact. And same goes for PM.

So lets help good MLA, MP, CM, PM etc by putting the DRAFTS of the legislations and Executive Notifications that can help India.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 18 Dec 2009 11:40

Has Maya's plan torpedoed Rahul's mission?

Mayawati is now talking of moving a resolution in the state Assembly for the creation of separate states of Rohelkhand, Bundelkhand, Brajpradesh, Harit Pradesh, Poorvanchal and Avadh

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 18 Dec 2009 11:47

Telangana leader issues grim warning
- Rao tells Delhi not to somersault
G.S. RADHAKRISHNA

Hyderabad, Dec. 17: Telangana Rashtra Samiti (TRS) chief K. Chandrasekhar Rao today dared the government to go slow on statehood, saying in case New Delhi went back on its word the movement would turn so violent that no police or military force would be able to contain it.

The TRS chief’s threat came hours after chief minister K. Rosaiah said the samaikya (integrated) Andhra campaign was more visible now while the Telangana agitators were lying low.

Addressing reporters for the first time since breaking his fast on the night of December 9, Rao said the state government should not be taken in by the silence of the TRS.

“It is only a strategic silence on the request of (UPA chairperson) Sonia Gandhi and (Prime Minister) Manmohan Singh to enable them to set their house in order,” he said.

The statehood spearhead said there was no going back on Telangana because of a vertical split in the state’s polity. “You have seen how advocates fought in the Andhra Pradesh High Court. It will be foolish to flaunt the flag of a samaikya Andhra after all these happenings,” he said.

More at:

Telengana

Feeding fat to the fire!

RameshVarma · Post by **RameshVarma** » 18 Dec 2009 14:24

Rahul Mehta wrote:
RameshVarma wrote: 1. Referendum in the Nizam area after 5 or 15 years is not going to solve the problem in any manner.

2. The only thing that is going to solve the issue is better governance.
1. If referendum will bring "no change", why do you oppose it? Or, how do you say that it will bring only negative change and not any positive change.

2. If "improve governance" if solution you propose, please provide the DRAFTS of the legislations, Govt Orders, Executive Notifications etc that you think will improve this magic word "governance". The administration, courts are like CPUs working on procedure code created by the DRAFTS of legislations and Govt Orders. If you want slightest change across the board, then only known way is to change the procedure code, which needs a DRAFT. So what DRAFTS so you propose?

And can "improve governance" be done in 3 months to 6 months? If yes, good. If not, what law do you propose to reduce the fire today.

If you think by forming a new state they are going to develop then your seriously wrong as their problems will compounded by weaker voice in the center, decrease in the investments in their region, esp Hyderabad (which I assume will become UT), they need to contend with other states for Water resources, needs to depend on other states for Power, need to pay octrai for access to coastal regions(so most of industries will be favoring a state with coastal regions and with surplus of Power),Telangana land being no Punjab or Bihar, did I mention about the Maoist problem in Telangana region.So if the region is divided then most will be lost for Telangana but not Andhra (am not sure about Seema).
If so, the referendum will return "no separation".

I am against the idea of referendum as it can be hijacked by small section of powerful people.A greedy few can exploit large masses for their benefit by BS propaganda and by illusions of non-existent benefits(case in point the current population of TSP). For referendum to be effective the population should be aware of the pro's and con's that their decision is going to have, on not only their life but also its impact on the society as whole. And since the larger section of the crowd are illiterate not only terms of education but also about the problem itself. The idea of referendum can be simply thrown out of the window. I also think the crowd has the tendencies to think in terms of short term personal gains rather gains that can benefit the larger society in long term. So when ever critical decision has to be taken, It has to be taken by visionary leader, who can think about larger good of the society.

In cases, where there is an absence of visionary leader [ like the current situation where petty politicians are involved in cheap politics for their personal gain] a process has to be created which will assume the role of visionary leader.

Here is my idea of solution that could solve the current crisis

Rather then depending upon just ref. the two parities should be invited to publish a paper (like scientific journal where each allegation or counter allegation has to be backed up a non-refutable references) describing their side of their story and how the solution they propose is going to solve the problem. Then each side can take up the paper published by other side and they can try to publish another set of paper(s) to either disprove the claims made by the other side or how their solution is better in than the others.This process of claims and counter
claims can continue until both sides agree on to a common solution. These papers have to made available to public, where the public will be free to contribute to the ongoing dispute. If decision is not reached with stipulated amount of time, then a third party may be involved to solve the problem, which would be supreme court, its judgment can be based on the content discussed upon. The public will be given authority to challenge the solution agreed upon by both parties in the supreme court, in which case the decision of the supreme court is binding upon both sides of the party.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 18 Dec 2009 18:55

Rahul Mehta wrote:
Stan_Savljevic wrote: What are the criteria that needs to be satisfied to declare that India has decolonized? As far as I see, decolonization is a state of one's mind, so I am waiting to hear this spelt out.
Simple. You must vote for whom-so-ever Saffron Supremo says and propagate only his speeches. If you do so, you are Indic and free from colonial mindset. Otherwise, you are a un-Indic and suffering from colonial mindset.

This is the most ridiculous opinion people have on this forum. And yes, it too comes from the “Dhimmitude” as Muppala-garu explained above.

RM-ji, I thought you wanted to change so many laws and governance structures to help the people, who are Indic (that is native). Yet you do not know that most of these structures you want to destroy are the gifts of colonization.

yvijay · Post by **yvijay** » 18 Dec 2009 20:45

ShyamSP wrote: Thank you for noting that Telagana people do not have exclusive claim. Unfortunately, Telenaganavadis don't seem to agree to that. They say it is in their land. If any Hyderabad person raises voice then Tvadis seem to threaten cutting Manjeera water and milk and honey from outer areas to Hyderabad.

They have been making those threats from 2004. You must have known by now they are empty threats. KCR has been saying he would go to war every now and then when he feared people are forgetting him and people used to laugh him off.

I'm still unable to figure why the Center acted on the telangana now. If anything the movement was strong in 2004 when TRS was started by KCR after loosing his ministership in TDP government. He at least handful of seats in 2004 elections. Then the center said that it would setup a second SRC and watered down the movement. Whenever KCR brought up the issue, local congress leaders used to say that Madam should take the decision and he would remain calm for some period. Last elections has been a disaster for him. He started this hunger strike drama fearing people would forget him.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 18 Dec 2009 21:15

Rama gaaru: You know RM was being sarcastic there....so I am little lost on your post.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 18 Dec 2009 22:29

Lagadapati echo's BRF slogan.

Rename Andhra Pradesh as Telangana and keep it united

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 18 Dec 2009 22:38

RamaY wrote:Lagadapati echo's BRF slogan.

Rename Andhra Pradesh as Telangana and keep it united

a rose called by any name is a rose!! and andhra and telangana has been the name of this areas since long long ago.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Dec 2009 22:45

ravi_ku, I am not so sure. Please help find the etymology of the areas. Were the districts in now Andhra always called Andhra?

I never liked the name Andhra Pradesh. The region from before the Muslim invasion was the Kaktiya and Chola-Chalukya of Vengi(modern Nellore) land.

And if modern states were based on language why call it Andhra Pradesh instead of Telugunadu?

Very confusing why things are the way they are.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 18 Dec 2009 22:59

ramana wrote:ravi_ku, I am not so sure. Please help find the etymology of the areas. Were the districts in now Andhra always called Andhra?

I never liked the name Andhra Pradesh. The region from before the Muslim invasion was the Kaktiya and Chola-Chalukya of Vengi(modern Nellore) land.

And if modern states were based on language why call it Andhra Pradesh instead of Telugunadu?

Very confusing why things are the way they are.

Just a nitpick--Vengi if I am not mistaken is in the Godavari region.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 18 Dec 2009 23:00

ramana wrote:ravi_ku, I am not so sure. Please help find the etymology of the areas. Were the districts in now Andhra always called Andhra?

I never liked the name Andhra Pradesh. The region from before the Muslim invasion was the Kaktiya and Chola-Chalukya of Vengi(modern Nellore) land.

And if modern states were based on language why call it Andhra Pradesh instead of Telugunadu?

Very confusing why things are the way they are.

Ramana check my posts on what is called Andhra.

British's Coastal Andhra => Kosta Andhra =>shortened to=> Kosta or Andhra
(hence Coastal Andhra came to be known as Andhra which is 1-2 century terminology.)

Some time they refer entire non-Telengana (Rayalaseema & Kosta) as Andhra
(This is post-independance terminology due to Andhra state which comprise two areas)

Seemandhra which is current terminology people are using for Rayalaseema + Kosta Andhra

Telengana 50 years back is Telugu area of Hyderabad state
Telengana 100-200 years back is most of Andhra Pradesh.

Telangana is Muslim word = Telugu + Khana

Yesterday when Lagadapati said to Warangal's Kakatiya University (KU) students, I even represent Telengana (ofcourse his Vijayawada constituency is old Telengana areas. He mentioned Nizam pet). The KU students represented in live TV didn't seem to get it and doesn't seem to know any history of Telengana.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Dec 2009 23:03

Can I ask you to indulge me and color the maps in the various periods? I think it will make it easier to understand.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 18 Dec 2009 23:04

ramana wrote:ravi_ku, I am not so sure. Please help find the etymology of the areas. Were the districts in now Andhra always called Andhra?

I never liked the name Andhra Pradesh. The region from before the Muslim invasion was the Kaktiya and Chola-Chalukya of Vengi(modern Nellore) land.

And if modern states were based on language why call it Andhra Pradesh instead of Telugunadu?

Very confusing why things are the way they are.

ramana garu,

to be precise. I have no idea regarding the etymology of andhra, even though I did a basic search on internet. All I got was andhrakas or some variant of it has been in mention since mahabharata times. Some where along the times came, trilinga --> telugu/telangana or even the name telingis used during EIC times.

So as such, I have always regarded andhra as equivalent to telugu, from my childhood unconsciously. Even now, due to lack of my knowlege, I have for want of better alternative treated them as same.

So as such as long as, the name is a derivative of trilinga/ andhra, I have no attachment to one word more than the other. Regarding your question, I submit that I do not know. If I had to take a guess, possibly it was because of the first formation of andhra state and then the nizam area joining into it.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 18 Dec 2009 23:14

KV Rao wrote:
ramana wrote:ravi_ku, I am not so sure. Please help find the etymology of the areas. Were the districts in now Andhra always called Andhra?

I never liked the name Andhra Pradesh. The region from before the Muslim invasion was the Kaktiya and Chola-Chalukya of Vengi(modern Nellore) land.

And if modern states were based on language why call it Andhra Pradesh instead of Telugunadu?

Very confusing why things are the way they are.
Just a nitpick--Vengi if I am not mistaken is in the Godavari region.

The Vengi kingdom extended from the Godavari River in the north to Mount Mahendragiri in the southeast and to just south of the banks of River Krishna in the south of India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vengi

Vengi = Roughly current day, Godavari districts + Krishna + Khammam+ Warangal+ Nalgonda + Karimnagar

Subset of it (mostly South portion of Vengi) at a later time was called Velnadu under Velnati Cholas.

skaranam · Post by **skaranam** » 18 Dec 2009 23:15

meanwhile...cable transmission in certain areas of telangana have stopped telecasting TV9 and ABN Andhrajyothi.
I am in Hanamakonda...and since today morning (18thDec) there is no TV9 and ABN Channel..My cable guy is not lifting his phone...
In Kosta Andhra areas...."HMTV" and "Z News 24 Gantalu" are not being shown...

a_kumar · Post by **a_kumar** » 18 Dec 2009 23:34

yvijay wrote: I'm still unable to figure why the Center acted on the telangana now. If anything the movement was strong in 2004 when TRS was started by KCR after loosing his ministership in TDP government. He at least handful of seats in 2004 elections. Then the center said that it would setup a second SRC and watered down the movement. Whenever KCR brought up the issue, local congress leaders used to say that Madam should take the decision and he would remain calm for some period. Last elections has been a disaster for him. He started this hunger strike drama fearing people would forget him.

Happened to have a chat with a paanwala sometime back..

Quiz...
(1) Is timeline of "Jagan & Obulapuram Mining" (Google is your friend) issue and KCR starting 2-day hunger strike just coincidence?
(2) Can you identify the players in the mining game?
(3) Could it be the case of a survival tactic that went horribly wrong?

pramodkumarca · Post by **pramodkumarca** » 19 Dec 2009 00:15

a_kumar wrote:
yvijay wrote: I'm still unable to figure why the Center acted on the telangana now. If anything the movement was strong in 2004 when TRS was started by KCR after loosing his ministership in TDP government. He at least handful of seats in 2004 elections. Then the center said that it would setup a second SRC and watered down the movement. Whenever KCR brought up the issue, local congress leaders used to say that Madam should take the decision and he would remain calm for some period. Last elections has been a disaster for him. He started this hunger strike drama fearing people would forget him.
Happened to have a chat with a paanwala sometime back..

Quiz...
(1) Is timeline of "Jagan & Obulapuram Mining" (Google is your friend) issue and KCR starting 2-day hunger strike just coincidence?
(2) Can you identify the players in the mining game?
(3) Could it be the case of a survival tactic that went horribly wrong?

relating telangana issue with other issue is bit political in itself

If USA can have many states with much less population then india why should we oppose to create telangana

all dirty politician have heavly invested their black money in real estate project near around hyderabad and only oppositing the telangan formation to protect their dirty property (if all telangana district want to be seperated then no one has right to held then wrong)

pramodkumarca · Post by **pramodkumarca** » 19 Dec 2009 00:21

ShyamSP wrote:
ramana wrote:ravi_ku, I am not so sure. Please help find the etymology of the areas. Were the districts in now Andhra always called Andhra?

Yesterday when Lagadapati said to Warangal's Kakatiya University (KU) students, I even represent Telengana (ofcourse his Vijayawada constituency is old Telengana areas. He mentioned Nizam pet). The KU students represented in live TV didn't seem to get it and doesn't seem to know any history of Telengana.

Man histroy does not fed stomachs - the students want their right to be seperated

if you are from telangana you may would have shared their opinion - but it is true that underdevelopment and supression will create problems like this so the governement duty is to ensure a sustainable balance growth and people should love to respect each other irrecpective of community- the only reason for this movement is massive gap between the districts of telangana and other districks

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 19 Dec 2009 01:17

pramodkumarca wrote: If USA can have many states with much less population then india why should we oppose to create telangana

If small states is criteria, India government should spell it out and ways to do it from another state reorganization commission (SRC)

They can combine
-Adilabad, Nizambad, Karimnagar, Warangal, Medak (those depending on Godavari waters) as one state
-Hyderabad+RR+Mahabubnagar+Nalgona as another state
-Khammam into Krishna.

I suppose that is okay with Telenganvadis. Nah! They don't agree to it. We don't have to look logic in idiocy.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 19 Dec 2009 01:36

pramodkumarca wrote: if you are from telangana you may would have shared their opinion - but it is true that underdevelopment and supression will create problems like this so the governement duty is to ensure a sustainable balance growth and people should love to respect each other irrecpective of community- the only reason for this movement is massive gap between the districts of telangana and other districks

Please present those gaps so we can understand.

Looking from AP Revenue point of view. They say greater Hyderbad derives highest revenues for the state and revenues among the rest of regions is equally distributed with 4-coastal districts (probably vizag too) a few %s higher. That is crudely indicative that there is NO MASSIVE gap.

I'm not picking you. Tvadis have tendency to rehash 1950/60s grievances instead of what are current and factual.
If you come across their factual grievances *, please present.

* One they are asking for government jobs. This is solvable problem, perhaps by zoning. Looking at bigger picture, do you think a few government jobs are going to solve real employment problem when Tvadis (sounding like Moaists) want Capitalists to get out.

* Another one is water problem which involves a lot of complexities. Nobody is objecting to water projects for Telengana as long as they understand sharing issues.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 19 Dec 2009 01:37

pramodkumarca wrote: Man histroy does not fed stomachs - the students want their right to be seperated

Does having a seperate state fill stomachs? If so, let us have a seperate state for every beggar I see in hyderabad.

Less on rhetoric and emotions, shall we?

if you are from telangana you may would have shared their opinion - but it is true that underdevelopment and supression will create problems like this so the governement duty is to ensure a sustainable balance growth and people should love to respect each other irrecpective of community- the only reason for this movement is massive gap between the districts of telangana and other districks

You want to compare the best of telangana with the best of seema-andhra - hyderabad & rangareddy with the Krishna, godavari delta or shall we compare worst with worsts adilabad with vizianagaram/srikakulam/ananthapur?

Poverty and richness is on both sides. You are comparing the worst in telangana to the best in seemandhra and talking. Compare the best with best and worst with worst, the differences are minimal.

This is not in anyway to say that a telangana demand shouldnt be there or anything even remotely like that. Let us try to analyze in dispassionate way, how much is telangana is different from andhra, were they originally the same and if so, when did they separate? Who and how much gain/loss one gets by this division? What are the forces this will unleash? Is there any gain/loss we get by being collective?

To understand these linkages, there is no way but to go to history and its roots.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 19 Dec 2009 01:50

The history of Telugu language itself is a saga of as that of the people themselves. Telingam is one of the four groups among the Proto-Dravidian (between 1500-1000 B.C.) which was spoken by twenty-one Dravidian languages. There was a legend about the group being in Dhaulagiri in the present-day Orissa State, formerly a part of Kalinga Rajya. Lingo, the son of Shiva and Parvati built a town for the groups he led of which some spoke Telingam. Russian linguistician Andronov suggests the possibility of a relation between Telingam and Telugu.

Etukoori Balarama Moorti in Andhra Samskhipta Charitra wrote that in an inscription of 250 A.D of Nagarjuna, some Telugu words were found. The Satavahanas are called Andhras in puranas. After the disintegration of the Mauryan empire, the powerful dynasty of Satavahanas ruled the region between the rivers Godavari and Krishna, from 200 B.C. to 250 A.D. Later Ikshwakus ruled over the land of the Telugus. The Ikshwakus whose official language was Prakrut also patronized Telugu. During the eleventh and twelfth centuries Telugu got firmly established not merely in inscriptions but also in literary masterpieces like Tikkana's Maha Bharatam written around 1050 A.D. Andhra, originally the name of a tribe came to be used for the language which evolved over thousands of years.' Andhra', 'Telugu' and 'Tenugu' are used as synonyms.

The word Trilinga Desam refers to the region between the three lingas (linga is symbolic of Param Shiva, Para Brahma, the Absolute eternal reality) in the places where Shiva shrines of eminence are located. Kaleshwara, Bheemeshwara and Mallikharjuna are three names, among many, of Parama Shiva. The word Telugu is derived from Trilinga. The Mallikarjuna Linga of Srisailam of Kurnool District, the Bheemeswara Linga of Daksharamam of East Godavari District and the Kaleswara Linga of Kaleswaram in Karimnagar District have together given Andhradesa it's name "Trilingadesa".

Source: TOWARDS SOME "STANDARD" TELUGU
I have been reading this website http://www.languageinindia.com for sometime now. Lots of interesting info. KAN Sastri talks about this three lingams too. The above article does not cite or quote him; so we do not know if the author used KAN Sastri's work in addition to others he mention.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 19 Dec 2009 02:58

Looks like bipolar politics hit TDP also. It is not just Congress that has two faces when it comes to AP. Telangana side they want fight with gang of Congress and TRS and on the other side they want fight with Congress and PRP vs YSRcongress and PRP

In AP, Congress is made up of four parties which are Congress, TRS, PRP, and YSR congress. Congress and YSR-congress(not a real party) could be same as they seem to be playing drama looking at certain incidents.

Desam to fight for T, united AP
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/hyderaba ... ted-ap-651
Hyderabad, Dec. 18: The Telugu Desam will now fight for both Samaikya Andhra and a separate Telangana. Sources told this newspaper that the TD chief, Mr N. Chandrababu Naidu, agreed to the demand of Telangana TD leaders to intensify the agitation for Telangana.

Mr Naidu, who presided over a meeting of Telangana TD leaders attended by Dr Nagam Janardhan Reddy and Mr T. Devender Goud, approved their demand to intensify their agitation.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Dec 2009 04:36

RamaY wrote:Lagadapati echo's BRF slogan.

Rename Andhra Pradesh as Telangana and keep it united

Lagadapati says Rename Andhra as Telangana

He also said this

Service programmes

Listing the service programmes he organised through Lanco trust in Telangana districts even before he came into politics, he said the discrepancy between Telangana, Andhra and Rayalaseema regions had long since been bridged because of the various programmes of the YSR government.

The growth in the number of primary schools in Telangana was 216 per cent compared to the 79 per cent in Andhra and Rayalaseema regions in the past 50 years. Similarly the growth in the high schools in Telangana region was 8,394 per cent compared to the 1,230 per cent in the other two regions.

Rice production

The growth in rice production was 708 per cent compared to the 191 per cent in these two regions.

The increase in the black-topping of roads was 4,414 per cent compared to the 1,127 per cent in Andhra and Rayalaseema, he detailed.

Mr. Rajagopal even felt that the State could be renamed ‘Telangana’ as the word only meant ‘Telugu-speaking region’.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 19 Dec 2009 04:53

Actually that's not a bad idea. Give Telungana their own state and also give them more land... that includes Andhra and Rayalaseema! Think outside the box.

Brilliant.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 19 Dec 2009 05:05

Urdu in AP; interesting analysis on the growth of Urdu in AP. No prizes for guessing the reason.

goutham · Post by **goutham** » 19 Dec 2009 06:05

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/eb66f91a-eb96 ... ck_check=1

India’s southern city of Hyderabad is becoming one of India’s most potent symbols of the greed and corruption that link politicians and businessmen. For the third time in a year, the state has been rocked by a crisis that exposes those linkages – this time over whether Andhra Pradesh should be split in two with the creation of a new state of Telangana based around Hyderabad (white area in map below).
This is a far cry from the glory and international fame of the past 15 or so years when this prosperous capital of the state of Andhra Pradesh became an international symbol of India’s dramatic growth in software, second only to Bangalore as a thriving location for information technology investment. Companies located there include Google and Microsoft, and Bill Clinton visited as US president.

The first of the state’s crises came a year ago with the collapse of Satyam, a leading Hyderabad-based software company that was owned by the family of its then chairman, Ramalinga Raju. The Rajus were closely linked with various politicians, including the state’s Congress chief minister, Y S Rajasekhar Reddy (YSR), who died in a helicopter crash in September, as well as his predecessor, Chandrababu Naidu.
Politicians are widely believed to have invested their black money in both Satyam and in Maytas Infrastructure, an associated company that received favours on contracts from the state government and drained funds out of Satyam. Both companies (Satyam has now been sold) are now being investigated for massive fraud, and Raju has been detained in jail since January.
Next came YSR’s sudden death and an immediate attempt by his politically inexperienced 37-year old son, Y.S.Jaganmohan Reddy, to become the chief minister. Jaganmohan, who had built a substantial business empire since his father came to power in 2004, was frenetically backed in a campaign by local businessmen who wanted to protect deals they had struck with his father and to be able to replicate them in the future.
As Bharat Bhushan, editor of India’s Mail Today, put it in an article (“Money backs ‘Son-rise’ in Andhra” – Oct 3, 2009) that listed many company names, YSR secured the loyalty of his supporters not by giving them lucrative government jobs, which is common practice across the country, but by facilitating opportunities for developing new businesses, especially in booming Hyderabad.
“YSR converted his key supporters into businessmen, industrialists, contractors and realtors,” wrote Bhushan. “Their loyalty to the party, or the leader, was based on pure economic interest. YSR rewarded them with contracts in state sponsored irrigation projects…….highway projects, real estate activities, development of Special Economic Zones, land grants and housing schemes in urban as well as rural areas……
“It has taken decades for Indian entrepreneurs like the Tatas, Birlas, Ambanis and Bajajs to convert family businesses into billion dollar corporations. The Congress Party under YSR in Andhra showed us that this could be done in barely five years.”
These are the businessmen who are now resisting the demands for a Telangana state. Coming from Andhra’s coastal regions, they mostly belong to the Reddy and Kamma upper castes that must now be ranked along with India’s more famous business castes and communities such as the Marwaris of the north and the Chettiars of the south.
They fear that the dispute will lead to a crash in Hyderabad real estate values and a cutback on infrastructure projects – and that they might be driven out of the capital by the new Telangana rulers.
Among the most powerful anti-Telangana politicians is Lagadapati Rajagopal, founder-chairman of the rapidly growing Lanco infrastructure, power and construction group and a Congress MP, whose development plans in and around Hyderabad would be hit hard if the state split. Another MP with powerful Delhi connections is T.Subbarami Reddy, whose Gayatri group has many infrastructure projects. Another businessman who would lose from a split is Andhra-born G.M.Rao, founder-chairman of the Bangalore-based GMR group that built Hyderabad airport and controversially has 5,000 of acres around the site waiting for development, as well as many other projects. National and local politicians are widely believed to have invested in such companies.
The Telangana claim
The Telangana people’s wish for some sort of constitutional identity has been around for over 50 years, and has been fudged and rebuffed by successive Indian governments. But last week (December 9) the central government gave way and agreed to create Telangana in order to end a fast by a local politician and activist, Chandrashekhar Rao, leader of Telangana Rashtriya Samiti, who was risking his life to revive his crumbling political image.
That humane but politically clumsy decision led to violent demonstrations in Hyderabad, plus resignation threats by about half the members of the legislative assembly. This paralysed the state government and sparked follow-on bifurcation claims from other states all over India.
But observers of India’s frequently muddled and confusing political scene need not fear any imminent Balkanisation of India’s 28 states. Having prevented the death of the fasting politician, the government is back to fudge, and hopes to stall the Telangana claims indefinitely, maybe even until the state’s next assembly elections in 2014. Meanwhile, other states’ claims to be split will be examined, and some may push ahead a little – but there is no crisis, despite blanket and over-excited media coverage.
Unlike most other bifurcation claims, the battle over Telangana is about wealth, not language or ethnic divisions, nor dramatic differences in geography. It would also the first time that the capital of a state has gone with the new entity – normally the breakaway has to start afresh.
The people of coastal Andhra have benefited economically since the days of British rule when there was extensive investment in irrigation, but the Telangana region lagged behind under the thumb of the Nizam of Hyderabad. When Hyderabad began to flourish in the 1990s as an IT centre, wealthy landowners from the coastal region flocked to the city to develop real estate and infrastructure projects, lining up with local politicians such as YSR and his cronies to secure contracts and licences. This is the wealth that they fear the creation of Telangana would put at risk. The reputation of Hyderabad and Andhra has been severely damaged by this series of crises. It is causing concern among both Indian and international investors who had not known – or had ignored – the political-business linkages and scams.
The state now has an uncertain political future. The death of YSR has removed an able political leader who, despite his business links and cronyism, was an effective chief minister. Now the Congress Party is split over who his successor should be as, well as over the Telangana issue. And, of course, politicians’ fixing of contracts and projects for the benefit of their cronies is visible for all to see.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 19 Dec 2009 06:25

Lagadapati wrote: The growth in the number of primary schools in Telangana was 216 per cent compared to the 79 per cent in Andhra and Rayalaseema regions in the past 50 years. Similarly the growth in the high schools in Telangana region was 8,394 per cent compared to the 1,230 per cent in the other two regions.

What kinda madrassa math is this? I would have assumed a figure of no. of high schools per 1000-population would make more sense. Why dont people compare real and comparable data and not these 100 billion % increase. If you start with 1 and have 100 in 60 years, you have a 9900% improvement, no?! Or better, what is the difference in the no. of high schools per-1000 between 1947 and 2007 (say) for the two regions?

The growth in rice production was 708 per cent compared to the 191 per cent in these two regions.

A better and real comparison would be rice production per hectare in both regions.

The increase in the black-topping of roads was 4,414 per cent compared to the 1,127 per cent in Andhra and Rayalaseema, he detailed.

My metric would be kms of black-topped roads per person in the region.

Bottomline: why are people trying to tilt against windmills with half-baked data? I dont mind people trying to prove that a united AP is not so bad, but doing that with idiotic data is not only statistically dishonest, but also insulting to the stakeholders [whoever they are].

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 19 Dec 2009 06:59

Small States: Potential Maoist Strongholds --- P. V. Ramana
http://idsa.in/idsacomments/SmallStates ... ana_171209