Indian Army: News & Discussion

Gkin · Post by **Gkin** » 16 Dec 2009 22:28

Vipul wrote: Sadly, we do not learn from our history. Today, as the nation celebrates 'Vijay Diwas', it is worth pondering that General Jacob is not on any official invitation list.

Is this how we treat our heroes?

Sad...

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 16 Dec 2009 22:35

I have just returned from the ultimate celebration of Vijay Diwas at Eastern Command.

It was a marvellous show and one has to give credit to Lt Gen VK Singh, the Eastern Army Commander.

There were Mukti Joddhas from Bangladesh, some who were from the Pakistani Army and some from East Paksitan Rifles.

There was also a film presentation and for the first time I saw Bhutto at the UN tearing the Security Council resolution and walking out. Great clippings that one had not seen earlier!

I am not too sure if they celebrate it elsewhere, but ever year there is a 3 day function at Eastern Command.

negi · Post by **negi** » 16 Dec 2009 22:41

Now we are talking business , RayC can the film in question be made public, with due credits of course ?

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 16 Dec 2009 22:50

negi wrote:Now we are talking business , RayC can the film in question be made public, with due credits of course ?

I spoke to the Army Commander and he said it was a patch work done from many clips.

I believe BGS Int is my student. I will go and ask him if we can get a CD of the same. If feasible, I will copy it and send it to you.

It also had interviews of Pak Brigs asking them how they felt about surrendering and they said - it was the part of the game!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 17 Dec 2009 01:56

RayC wrote:There was also a film presentation and for the first time I saw Bhutto at the UN tearing the Security Council resolution and walking out. Great clippings that one had not seen earlier!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 17 Dec 2009 02:44

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyMB14i8mwg
Bhutto tearing the paperwork in UN

In between there is firing on the streets of dhaka - killings in plain sight by Paki soldiers

Raman · Post by **Raman** » 17 Dec 2009 04:01

Although I've often heard the names of the 1971 Pakistani operations (Changiz Khan, Searchlight, etc), I haven't been able to locate the name for the Indian military operations. Was there a name for the Indian operations in 1971?

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 17 Dec 2009 04:09

RayC wrote:[

It also had interviews of Pak Brigs asking them how they felt about surrendering and they said - it was the part of the game!

Cross post http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 60#p784160

This one is a great one - first it has some coverage of the distasteful incident where Kader Siddiquis men killed some Biharis in front of the press. The second part of the film is about the arms laying down ceremony held after a few days - in which Gen Nagra, Gen Sagat Singh and Brigadier Kler were present (photos are in BR Army gallery). An interview with Brig Baqar Siddiqui - Chief of Staff under Niazi - in which he states "part of the game" - maybe he was expecting to be back in Pakistan in about a few months?

Raman,

Its Cactus Lily

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 17 Dec 2009 05:31

Army short of 1.86 lakh bulletproof jackets

NEW DELHI: Life in India comes cheap. Despite a lapse of several years, a major chunk of Army soldiers are yet to get something as basic as proper bullet proof jackets

Noting that the authorised holding of bullet-proof jackets for the Army was 3,53,765, the parliamentary standing committee on defence on Wednesday expressed anguish that MoD was yet to make up the shortfall of as many as 1,86,138 of them.

"This is risking the life of as many soldiers. The committee desires that such important life-saving items should be purchased through fast-track procedures. Quality control should be strictly observed so that precious lives of trained soldiers may not be lost,'' it said.

The latest GSQRs (general staff qualitative requirements) for the jackets show their weight ranges from 10.5 kg to 11.5 kg. "This seems to be very heavy as the soldier has to carry this weight in addition to regular items, which will affect his agility and mobility in war as well as counter-insurgency operations,'' it said. Consequently, the committee asked the government to procure light-weight jackets from the domestic or the international market.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 17 Dec 2009 09:35

Gerard, Acharya, Jagan,

Thanks,

Great footage.

Yes, I think the clip they should were cut and paste from these clips.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 17 Dec 2009 10:15

SIFY news seems to make General Jacob out almost to be an impoverished and neglected pensioner, in this news article. But this is not the case, and he is most certainly not exactly a forgotten soul.

Indeed, after retirement, he has scaled even greater heights, including serving until just a few years ago as Governor of Punjab & Chief Administrator, Chandigarh, as well as serving a stint as Governor, Goa. He has also been on several occasions, the governments special envoy to Israel.

General Jacob is a lifelong bachelor, and to him, settling in a flat in an army colony with his old colleagues around him, is not a matter of being an impoverished retiree, but a matter of choice. Som Vihar is a very well run colony of retired army officers, and is in a very nice part of Delhi. And his flat is not tiny (though of course, not on the scale of the Raj Bhavans, and Flag houses that he once occupied either)!

As to his non invitation to events, I a) find it hard to believe, and if true, b) feel that frankly one must in fact ask the army why it didnt bother to extend this courtesy to one of its distinguished officers?

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 17 Dec 2009 10:45

AS Puar,

I am sure he was invited. I think he is old to travel and go through the rigours of a three day ceremony.

Gen Jacob is a Calcutta boy but the action is in Delhi (I wonder if they celebrated!) He is not poor. I have seen his ivory walking stick with a lion head with pure emerald eyes. He is a good man who does not like to be in the limelight. But he is caustic! He was berating me for something and when he found out I am from Calcutta, he cooled down. So, he is parochial too, right?

I have met Lt Gen VK Singh. He is a gentleman and does his bit to reach out to what he calls 'veterans' (US Army terminology, while I prefer retired soldiers). It was a huge gathering yesterday at Fort William and the throng of retired officers did confirm his resolve and that it was NOT merely a token gesture.

Counsel Generals of various nations, the new Governor (who came in late by 30 minutes!) and the CM (dot on time!) were there.

It was a grand show and without humiliating Pakistan, passed the message that we won hands down!

The Tri Services Band played many a tune including fusion music. Indian classical with western and Indian instruments. And a Bengali patriot song was sung by a Gorkha to the musical accompaniment - Dhono Dhaney Pushpe Bhora. I spoke to the Bangladeshi Mukti Joddha and other ex Pakistani Bengali officers and they were suitably impressed. They are invited every year.

It was a memorable evening and great evening to remember our heroes and the excellent and scintillating victory over Pakistan!

The clip on the war was short and a very fair one!

Very slick and good Psy Ops especially to jostle the Counsel Generals' mind of what had happened and what caused it! The clip had Mrs Indira Gandhi going on a world tour to requesting assistance.

I spoke to some common citizens of Kolkata who also saw the displays on separate days and they said these shows make them feel proud to be Indians!

I too reciprocate that sentiment!

A great people!

A great Nation!

dipak · Post by **dipak** » 17 Dec 2009 10:50

Vipul wrote: Today, as the nation celebrates 'Vijay Diwas', it is worth pondering that General Jacob is not on any official invitation list.Is this how we treat our heroes?

If its true - then really sad.

PS: Saw RayC's post later. Thanks.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 17 Dec 2009 16:27

RayC:

As I said, I find it very hard to believe that he is not on any official invitation list. The SIFY article was unnecessarily moany-groany in nature. I used to live in the same apartment complex as the general. He is of course of advanced years, but fit, and goes for a walk every day (always dressed very correctly, with fedora hat). He is a man of spirit and substance. And I believe I have seen that walking stick as well.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 17 Dec 2009 17:17

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 17 Dec 2009 19:55

ASPuar wrote:RayC:

As I said, I find it very hard to believe that he is not on any official invitation list. The SIFY article was unnecessarily moany-groany in nature. I used to live in the same apartment complex as the general. He is of course of advanced years, but fit, and goes for a walk every day (always dressed very correctly, with fedora hat). He is a man of spirit and substance. And I believe I have seen that walking stick as well.

His house is like a museum with great artefacts.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 17 Dec 2009 21:38

ASPuar wrote:As I said, I find it very hard to believe that he is not on any official invitation list.

I have noticed that the Army is very methodical in maintaining the list of senior officers, invitee list for any function etc. And I dont think Gen.Jacob would be side-lined on purpose, unless there are other reasons (which in my humble opinion does not exist)

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Dec 2009 00:55

Sachin wrote:
ASPuar wrote:As I said, I find it very hard to believe that he is not on any official invitation list.
I have noticed that the Army is very methodical in maintaining the list of senior officers, invitee list for any function etc. And I dont think Gen.Jacob would be side-lined on purpose, unless there are other reasons (which in my humble opinion does not exist)

Unless the good General is not keeping too well.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 18 Dec 2009 12:05

Sharpening America's Light Forces for Rapid Reaction Missions
http://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1196/

I am posting this for those who feel India should have an expeditionary force.

Open the chapters in PDF and have a great time!

This gives an insight!

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 18 Dec 2009 12:10

May read:

http://www.salute.co.in/011209/feat_Interview..html

The interview with the Eastern Army Commander.

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 18 Dec 2009 17:30

Antony asks Army top brass to ensure non-violation of human rights at any level

bksahu · Post by **bksahu** » 18 Dec 2009 19:31

RayC sir

Can you tell me the different badges worn by Lt Gen VK Singh in the pics.On his left hand sleeve i see a sign similar to one in tibetian flag (IMO) and above it what is written in golden badge,,looks to me as "RANGER".

Gurus help needed.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 18 Dec 2009 22:56

The RM has revealed that the Army has deinducted 2 Infantry Divisions from J&K. That adds up to 20 battalions of troops afaik. Thats quite a lot - and all that in last 2 years.

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/web1/09de ... date.htm#1

NEW DELHI: With the situation "improving" in Jammu and Kashmir, the Government today said it has withdrawn two Army divisions, comprising 30,000 men, from the state but made it clear that the operation of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act there could not be revoked at present.

However, it favoured "detailed discussion" to bring about some modifications in the controversial Act.

"Indian Army, by their own initiatives, have withdrawn two divisions (30,000) from J&K. Last year, they withdrew one, and this year the second division was withdrawn. They have been withdrawn because the situation has improved," Defence Minister A K Antony told reporters on the sidelines of a seminar on human rights here.

Antony said whenever the State Government felt that it could manage without the Army, more forces could be pulled out, but as long as the Army was deployed in the state, it would need AFSPA to operate there.

"Without special powers, they will not be able to act effectively," he said, adding that the Government itself wanted to further reduce the "visibility and presence" of the armed forces in the state with the improvement in the situation.

.....

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 19 Dec 2009 00:38

bksahu wrote:RayC sir

Can you tell me the different badges worn by Lt Gen VK Singh in the pics.On his left hand sleeve i see a sign similar to one in tibetian flag (IMO) and above it what is written in golden badge,,looks to me as "RANGER".

Gurus help needed.

Based on this pic (http://www.salute.co.in/011209/Images/_79U9051.jpg), some of the badges I identified are:
Left Sleeve - Eastern Command Badge (looks similar to Tibetan flag) See this for more command badges - http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORC ... adges.html
Left Sleeve - RANGER badge - Might be from his training stint at the US Army Ranger School. See here - http://indianarmy.nic.in/Site/FormTempl ... 9oTP3autM=

Right Breast Pocket - Balidan badge (bottom), Combat Diver badge?? (top)
Above Right Breast Pocket - Armoured Regiment badge??(bottom), Anti Tank missile badge (top)

I am not sure of the two badges with ??. The Lt. Gen is an infantry officer of the RAJPUT regiment. The combat diver badge makes sense. But the armoured regiment badge seems odd, although I may be missing something. More knowledgeable folks can shed some light on this.

Added later: rohitvats clarified on the ??. I was way off the mark

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 19 Dec 2009 00:47

List of Badges:

Left Arm - Eastern Army Command Badge
Ranger Tab - Successful completion of 61 days Ranger Course at the Ranger School, USA
Right chest pocket (bottom to up)
--Commando Instructor Badge - from the Commando Training School, Belgaum
--RR Badge
--Tank ATGM firing qualified (firing the ATGM from tanks like T-90/Arjun)
--ATGM qualified badge

d_berwal · Post by **d_berwal** » 19 Dec 2009 01:47

rohitvats wrote:List of Badges:

--Tank ATGM firing qualified (firing the ATGM from tanks like T-90/Arjun)

It is a T-90 only badge...

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 21 Dec 2009 04:07

Green norms stalling border roads: Army

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 22 Dec 2009 00:39

d_berwal wrote:
rohitvats wrote:List of Badges:

--Tank ATGM firing qualified (firing the ATGM from tanks like T-90/Arjun)
It is a T-90 only badge...

Thanks for correcting....

@Marute--> Commando Instructor Badge and Balidan Badge are not same...

Mahesh_R · Post by **Mahesh_R** » 22 Dec 2009 13:01

Pak violates Ceasefire: Army

At the subsequent flag meeting, India had lodged its protest against the ceasefire violation.

Guru's,

Is there any use of these lodged its protest against the ceasefire violation in the FLAG meetings ?
we had been doing these protests every time but it seems they are NOT taking them seriously...

I understand there is nothing much we can do apart from reply with a high magnitude force for every violation...

and also why does not our ARMY reply with high magnitude fire power esp when there is human loss on our side..

On Saturday, a BSF jawan was killed and two others were injured in cross border firing at Kranti post near the Line Of Control in Poonch

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 22 Dec 2009 13:15

What makes you think we don't reply to such provocation in Kind , recently a Paki soldier was killed in the cross fire.

Mahesh_R · Post by **Mahesh_R** » 22 Dec 2009 14:15

Nihat wrote:What makes you think we don't reply to such provocation in Kind , recently a Paki soldier was killed in the cross fire.

May be the force with which we reply is NOT enough....or else why would they invite a trouble ?
and also most of the times we don't reply to their small arms...(based on news reports)...

If we our reply was good enough to destroy their base(from where they lanch their attack) then I am pretty sure there would be any voilations from their end

Please let us know your thoughts...the reason I am asking this question is when ever our solider dies or gets injured ..I feel very bad..this is something our govt shld take care...

bksahu · Post by **bksahu** » 22 Dec 2009 16:02

IMO these provocations are mainly to push jihadis across the borders before the heavy snowfall shuts everything down........
We always retailiate with heavy fire power but that doesnot get the media coverage(IMO)...

Anabhaya · Post by **Anabhaya** » 22 Dec 2009 18:39

Ray,

Please congratulate the IA publicity divison or cell(if IA has one on my behalf.)

They have done a stunning job. The internet and media houses have been swamped by articles and pictures on Vijay Diwas.

The Indian army website has documented the celebrations in a manner that is particularly fitting of the Indian army.

The blokes that run PR/publicity at the Indian army should be sent to the Sri Lankan Defence Ministry and publicity cell to teach them what publicity means.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 22 Dec 2009 18:41

Anabhaya wrote:Ray,

Please congratulate the IA publicity divison or cell(if IA has one on my behalf.)

They have done a stunning job. The internet and media houses have been swamped by articles and pictures on Vijay Diwas.

The Indian army website has documented the celebrations in a manner that is particularly fitting of the Indian army.

The blokes that run PR/publicity at the Indian army should be sent to the Sri Lankan Defence Ministry and publicity cell to teach them what publicity means.

Are you serious or is it a dig?

Links please.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 22 Dec 2009 18:45

Mahesh,

We do retaliate and I assure you that it is not mere pinpricks.

Rest assured we do.

Now, ask yourself why does it not hit the headlines?

Your anger is nonetheless justified!

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 22 Dec 2009 18:56

Yes, even I get angry everytime there is a report of an Indian soldier dying or getting injured due to ceasefire violation. However, I have started thinking. I feel the Indian Army is extremely media-shy. They don't tell the media of their retaliation, I think. Nobody is so cool headed, that they go on enduring attacks, without retaliating in any manner.

Anabhaya · Post by **Anabhaya** » 22 Dec 2009 19:11

RayC wrote: Are you serious or is it a dig?

Links please.

I just couldn't put it in any other way, Sir. Not a mention of Vijay Diwas on the Indian army website. The Eastern commands website has not even been updated for three years. Most of the links don't work.

Despite being run by extremely well educated, upwardly mobile Officers the armed forces haven't learnt a lesson in publicity and marketing. It coulnd't have cost a few thousand rupees to get some professional photographer at the celebrations to shoot some nice shots, process and post on a website. The websites themselves are so shoddy.

Sorry for the whine - but the forces have a budget of more than one lakh crores. A decent PR cell won't cost more than 1 crore a year. It's impact on recruitment and image building will more than earn the investment.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 22 Dec 2009 19:12

Anabhaya wrote:
RayC wrote: Are you serious or is it a dig?

Links please.
I just couldn't put it another, Sir. Not a mention of Vijay Diwas on the Indian army website. The Eastern commands website has not even been updated for three years.

Despite being run by extremely well educated, upwardly mobile Officers the armed forces haven't learnt a lesson in publicity and marketing. It coulnd't have cost a few thousand rupees to get some professional photographer at the celebrations to shoot some nice shots, process and post on a website. The websites themselves are so shoddy.

Sorry for the whine - but the forces have a budget of more than one lakh crores. A decent PR cell won't cost more than 1 crore a year. It's impact on recruitment and image building will more than earn the investment.

I could not agree with you more!

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 22 Dec 2009 19:25

look at the bright side, BR was formed mainly because the official sites did such a poor job !

but really, the MOD sites of SL are superb to say the least. ray sir have you browsed them ?
the difference with ours is a eye-opener !

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 22 Dec 2009 19:32

Rahul M wrote:look at the bright side, BR was formed mainly because the official sites did such a poor job !

but really, the MOD sites of SL are superb to say the least. ray sir have you browsed them ?
the difference with ours is a eye-opener !

No I have not browsed the SL Army sites.

However, it is proved that they are brutes and not soldiers!

Fie on them!

You don't kill surrendered people!