I presume the language and culture is not similar and hence....manjgu wrote:how about merging jammu into punjab and ladhak into HP ?? amalmagation instead of divison??
Even though I am a Bengali, I support Gorkhaland and Kamatapur. I have served in both the areas and understand the ethos and desires to some extent. What difference will it make to Bengal?i support gorkhaland... i mean after a short visit to Kolkatta , i can understand why its important to have a Gorkhaland.
So what did you understand after a short visit to Kolkatta? Could you please explain?manjgu wrote: i mean after a short visit to Kolkatta , i can understand why its important to have a Gorkhaland.
Second that! Dogri is quite similar to Punjabi and was considered to be a dialect of Punjabi at times. The people of Gurdaspur and Udhampur/Kathua districts freuquently intermarry as Gurdaspur has lot of Thakur/Dogra mix population. Jammu region if given a choice would love to break free from Kashmiri domination a case in point being Amarnath agitation whereby people to people contact and support between Punjab and Jammu borders districts was seen to be believed.manjgu wrote:rayC .. on the contrary i think jammu and punjab would go along fine.
Agree with your first point.manjgu wrote:what i learnt after a short visit to kolkatta was that
a) culture/ways / ethos of the mountain people is very very different from the bangla babus ( which incidentally was one of the rationale for uttrakhand)
b) there is no governance / development / direction ... i mean even haryana is thousand times better. governance has reached its nadir ... there is decay all round. on my first visit to kolkatta ever, i was shocked and pained to see Kolkatta being termed a metro town !!
rayC .. on the contrary i think jammu and punjab would go along fine.
Boss that is EXACTLY the problem. There are large populations of Nepali-speakers in Sikkim as well as in North Bengal. Already the Gurkhas in North Bengal are nearly equal to or outnumber the native Lepchas in that region. In Sikkim the Gurkhas are close to or exceed the native Sikkimese (Bhutias, etc.) in number. Merge those two regions together and the Gurkhas will vastly outnumber both Sikkimese and Lepchas and probably everybody else. Why would that be acceptable to the Sikkimese/Lepchas, to be reduced to small minorities and therefore marginalized in regions where they are natives?Sridhar wrote:BTW, has there ever been any proposal to merge the hill areas of North Bengal with Sikkim? Ethnically, Sikkim has a majority of Nepali speakers as well. Gorkhaland+Sikkim would be more viable than two separate states. Sikkim would get much better access. Darjeeling etc. would get the benefits of being a border state (funding for roads and other infrastructure). And a small side benefit - it would poke the Chinese in the eye.
The fourth tripartite meeting involving the Centre, the state government and the Gorkha Janamukti Morcha (GJM) on the Gorkhaland issue ended inconclusively here on Monday. While the government side assured initiation of the process for political level discussions, the GJM decided to relax its agitation till December 25. The hunger strike will resume on December 27 in which students will take part.
But the hills as a whole remain under uncertainty. Meanwhile, despite negligible picketing, the plains of Darjeeling district looked deserted due to the bandh called by anti-Gorkhaland political forces. The Kamtapur Peoples Party activists blocked NH31A, demanding a separate Kamtapur state. Greater Cooch Behar Democratic Party will launch a hunger strike on Tuesday to push their demand for a separate Greater Cooch Behar state.
This is getting disgusting. The shroud is silent. MMS is no where. PC is hiding. Man! in a way... we miss YSR. I never thought I would say something like that.Making it clear that there would be no compromise on Hyderabad being the capital of Telangana, KCR warned “If anyone staked claim over Hyderabad, we will slit their tongues. We will not part with Hyderabad.”
Perhaps Telugus need this Greater-Hyderabad madhana, and face kalakoota visha before receiving the well deserved Amrita. What I am more interested to know is who will volunteer to take Kalakoota Visham when everyone wants Kamadhenu, Airavata, Goddess Lakshmi, etc.,vijayk wrote:http://greatandhra.com/ganews/viewnews. ... 15&scat=16
We’ll slit their tongues, warns KCR.
This is getting disgusting. The shroud is silent. MMS is no where. PC is hiding. Man! in a way... we miss YSR. I never thought I would say something like that.Making it clear that there would be no compromise on Hyderabad being the capital of Telangana, KCR warned “If anyone staked claim over Hyderabad, we will slit their tongues. We will not part with Hyderabad.”
The unfortunate thing is every one including the media forgot how we arrived at this situation here. CON party colluded with KCR to weaken and dislodge Naidu and made this goon a big shot. After winning, they should have at least setup a real reorg committee. Instead, they forgot everything after getting their hands on loot. The Italian shroud went missing. The joker prince who comes on chamcha media to discuss how his heart goes for the poor people is no where to be seen ever. Mr. Mumbles, MMS whose can't sleep if an alleged Islamic terrorist is arrested slept soundly for 5 years. They all forget this whole Telangana conveniently after grabbing the power in 2004. They think this is as usual CON party politics as in 60s and 70s. Unfortunately, for them the master good YSR died. KCR who made hundreds of crores in power and selling tickets learned a lesson or two from Thackrey goons in Mumbai. He knows that CON party loves to keep such guys in payroll whether it is Raj or Bhindranwale.goutham wrote:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/eb66f91a-eb96 ... ck_check=1
No need to call everyone names. It doesnt help your argument. Naidu is not a saint, every one knows about his recent flip flops on Telangana, More over he was the one who pushed KCR out of TDP back in 1999 and lead to the formation of TRS,TDP is equally at blame here.vijayk wrote:The unfortunate thing is every one including the media forgot how we arrived at this situation here. CON party colluded with KCR to weaken and dislodge Naidu and made this goon a big shot. After winning, they should have at least setup a real reorg committee. Instead, they forgot everything after getting their hands on loot. The Italian shroud went missing. The joker prince who comes on chamcha media to discuss how his heart goes for the poor people is no where to be seen ever. Mr. Mumbles, MMS whose can't sleep if an alleged Islamic terrorist is arrested slept soundly for 5 years. They all forget this whole Telangana conveniently after grabbing the power in 2004. They think this is as usual CON party politics as in 60s and 70s. Unfortunately, for them the master good YSR died. KCR who made hundreds of crores in power and selling tickets learned a lesson or two from Thackrey goons in Mumbai. He knows that CON party loves to keep such guys in payroll whether it is Raj or Bhindranwale.goutham wrote:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/eb66f91a-eb96 ... ck_check=1
Now it is all Andhrawala's fault; investment fault; Growth fault; Every body in AP is at fault except Italian shroud and CON party.
KCR was sidelined for his shenanigans and quit TDP to start TRS in 2001 with Congress hand from behind.goutham wrote: No need to call everyone names. It doesnt help your argument. Naidu is not a saint, every one knows about his recent flip flops on Telangana, More over he was the one who pushed KCR out of TDP back in 1999 and lead to the formation of TRS,TDP is equally at blame here.
Telengana region has been neglected for long. Vested business and political interests are hell bent on blocking formation of Telengana, to protect their business and ill gotten wealth.
I dont understand the difference between the right way as opposed to a wrong way. This agitation has been going on for decades now. Will there ever be a right time?ShyamSP wrote:
KCR was sidelined for his shenanigans and quit TDP to start TRS in 2001 with Congress hand from behind.
On flipflop, only in 2009 TDP went with Telengana and tied up with TRS. They still maintain they are for Telengana should it be done the right way. They perhaps were expecting peaceful separation but Congress made situation worst to screw TDP.
More than flipflop, it is dilution of Telugu Desam ideology in 2009 that hurt many core TDP people who sees TDP for AP. Recent episodes highlighted need to move to its core ideology but CBN is in critical bind and maintaining utter silence expecting Congress who created this mess to resolve the situation.
How dare Naidu expel this creep from his party? He should have seen this all coming. Every one who is expelled from their party goes and set up a party to fight for a new state.goutham wrote:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/eb66f91a-eb96 ... ck_check=1
No need to call everyone names. It doesnt help your argument. Naidu is not a saint, every one knows about his recent flip flops on Telangana, More over he was the one who pushed KCR out of TDP back in 1999 and lead to the formation of TRS,TDP is equally at blame here.
Telengana region has been neglected for long. Vested business and political interests are hell bent on blocking formation of Telengana, to protect their business and ill gotten wealth.
Masaru wrote:For Congress, no going back on Telangana
Seems like it is not a question of if but of when as far as Telengana is concerned. Once divisive tendencies take root, it is very hard to get rid of them.
And what we should have also done long time ago is propose the drafts of the legislations that would do what you say, and campaigned for those legislations. In any case, better late than never. So what legislations do you propose to implement what you say? Also, do you support or oppose handing over police dept to Districts next week? Next month? Aristotle once told me that in politics, ask questions only after answering them, and so I would answer the question I asked. As per the Govt Orders I have proposed and demanded :Sridhar wrote:The solution to these problems is something we should have done very long ago. We need to strengthen local bodies at the expense of the states.
The ancient and modern democracies that I lived through, be Greece or US, have sorted out problems by giving powers DIRECTLY to citizens, not to local representatives. As of now in India, Sarpanch is as corrupt as PM, CM and a local corporator is as corrupt MLA, MP. In US, local Sarpanch is less corrupt only because citizens can expel him and also imprison via Jury System, while no such threat exists in India. So AFAIS, handing over power to Mayors will create demand to split districts. But in any case, I will point out more concerns after I see the drafts you propose.Sridhar wrote:... We need to strengthen local bodies at the expense of the states. That is the way things are in most modern democracies. The reason there are clamours for more and states is the extraordinary power in the state capital and the extremely low power in the cities and towns and villages. ....
People like YSR are important reason why mess grew. Because of HUGE corruption (and YSR promoted that) in CM's office, every business groups wants CM of his choice and since one State can have only one CM, the next choice is to trifurcate the State and have 3 CMs. The trivial solution is reduce corruption and nepotism, so that commons no longer see even a need to have a separate State and businessmen also dont see much season to have separate State. And YSR , a born murderer, is no solution or even a step in the right direction.Some newspaper: http://greatandhra.com/ganews/viewnews. ... 15&scat=16
..... Making it clear that there would be no compromise on Hyderabad being the capital of Telangana, KCR warned “If anyone staked claim over Hyderabad, we will slit their tongues. We will not part with Hyderabad.”
VijayK: This is getting disgusting. The shroud is silent. MMS is no where. PC is hiding. Man! in a way... we miss YSR. I never thought I would say something like that.
These are necessary to solve many if not most of our problems. However, none of this is contradictory to the proposal of decentralization of power.This blog is like an entire wiki on telangana.A and B in relationship
B wants to separate. A says, no, I won’t let you go.
B says, sorry, we tried for 50 years to make this work. I want to go my own way. A says, no, I won’t let you go.
B says, you are not getting it. I feel suffocated in this relationship. You have not been very accommodating. You have never respected me. You exploited me all through the relationship. A says, no, I won’t let you go.
B says, don’t you think you should say few things like, ‘Let’s give it another chance. Let me address your issues’ if you want me to stay with you. A says, I would die, but I won’t let you go.
B says, this is turning ridiculous. I am telling you I want to move out because you didn’t treat me good. Instead of trying to make it work you are just forcing yourself onto me. Aren’t you being little selfish? A says, we should be together because we both speak the same language.
B says, screw the language. I am not going to sacrifice another minute to keep this farcical relationship going on. I am moving out. A says, I will die but I won’t let you go. I will protest and tell our parents.
B says, screw the parents. I am done. You can’t keep blackmailing me like this. You have always exploited me. A says, I will protest harder. I will burn things down. I will riot. But I will keep you with me.
B says, don’t you think this is the right time for you to say, ‘Sorry, I will make amends. I will change. I will protect your interests. Please stay’. A says, you are taking away the mansion you brought in the dowry. I took care of it all this while. I won’t let you have it.
B says, Aha, so this is all about the dowry I brought into the marriage. A says, I invested in painting it.
B says, screw the paint. The entire mansion belongs to me. The last sixty years have been a hell for me. That paint you put on doesn’t even compensate for the pain I have gone through. A says, if I can’t have it, I won’t let you have it.
B says, Get lost, you freak. I cannot believe I lived with you for all these sixty years. I am moving out. Bye, Bye. A says, let’s stay together. We both speak the same language. What will other people think if we break up like this?
B says. Bye. Now, I don’t even know how we stayed together all these years. A says, I will not give you divorce. Let’s see what you will do.
Here's a comment from "Indian Angeleno" on the site about the problems with the kind of thinking outlined in the quoted blog:anuj wrote:Hmm... many andhra telugu's on this forum, eh?
An interesting post on telangana from hereThis blog is like an entire wiki on telangana.A and B in relationship
B wants to separate. A says, no, I won’t let you go.
B says, sorry, we tried for 50 years to make this work. I want to go my own way. A says, no, I won’t let you go.
B says, you are not getting it. I feel suffocated in this relationship. You have not been very accommodating. You have never respected me. You exploited me all through the relationship. A says, no, I won’t let you go.
B says, don’t you think you should say few things like, ‘Let’s give it another chance. Let me address your issues’ if you want me to stay with you. A says, I would die, but I won’t let you go.
B says, this is turning ridiculous. I am telling you I want to move out because you didn’t treat me good. Instead of trying to make it work you are just forcing yourself onto me. Aren’t you being little selfish? A says, we should be together because we both speak the same language.
B says, screw the language. I am not going to sacrifice another minute to keep this farcical relationship going on. I am moving out. A says, I will die but I won’t let you go. I will protest and tell our parents.
B says, screw the parents. I am done. You can’t keep blackmailing me like this. You have always exploited me. A says, I will protest harder. I will burn things down. I will riot. But I will keep you with me.
B says, don’t you think this is the right time for you to say, ‘Sorry, I will make amends. I will change. I will protect your interests. Please stay’. A says, you are taking away the mansion you brought in the dowry. I took care of it all this while. I won’t let you have it.
B says, Aha, so this is all about the dowry I brought into the marriage. A says, I invested in painting it.
B says, screw the paint. The entire mansion belongs to me. The last sixty years have been a hell for me. That paint you put on doesn’t even compensate for the pain I have gone through. A says, if I can’t have it, I won’t let you have it.
B says, Get lost, you freak. I cannot believe I lived with you for all these sixty years. I am moving out. Bye, Bye. A says, let’s stay together. We both speak the same language. What will other people think if we break up like this?
B says. Bye. Now, I don’t even know how we stayed together all these years. A says, I will not give you divorce. Let’s see what you will do.
Looks like a consistent theme in your blog is that Andhras are foreigners in Telangana--virtually all your analogies are about British in India, or Bangladeshis in Kolkata. I know that in Nizam's time Andhras were indeed considered foreigners or immigrants in Hyderabad. Looks like your thinking is stuck in that era.
You keep asserting (as if asserting it makes it true) that a city only belongs to the region it is a part of. That idea is completely contrary to how cities live and function. A great city like Los Angeles "belongs" to Southern California only in the most mundane, boring sense; in reality, all people living in this city, man of whom are foreigners, immigrants and so on, feel a sense of ownership and pride in this city, and the city in turn fosters an environment in which everyone living here feels a part of the city.
The same is true of San Jose, which you ignorantly say "belongs" to the locals--do you mean whites, or mexican-americans, or blacks, anyone except the Indians living there? Let me assure you that San Jose or any major American city doesn't make a mistake like that, they aspire to be world-class cities (and that doesn't mean just having fancy buildings and roads, it means a world-class outlook) and don't like to be stuck as provincial backwaters.
Your expression is sophisticated, but your thinking is really backward and provincial, and in the matter of having a feel for the spirit of great cities, really ignorant. I feel sorry for India that a lot of people are going to be taken in by your sophistry.
The blog regularly takes consideration of the comments and follows that with a counter post.KV Rao wrote:Here's a comment from "Indian Angeleno" on the site about the problems with the kind of thinking outlined in the quoted blog:
This what the blog talks about telanagana alienation.Looks like a consistent theme in your blog is that Andhras are foreigners in Telangana--virtually all your analogies are about British in India, or Bangladeshis in Kolkata. Looks like your thinking is stuck in that era.
That's just an opinion of what he thinks it is. He doesn't lay down any valid arguments as to who gets the city. His only argument is that the writers "thinking is stuck in that era".You keep asserting (as if asserting it makes it true) that a city only belongs to the region it is a part of. That idea is completely contrary to how cities live and function.
telangana-xiv-united-we-standThere was an interview last night on Telugu TV news channel of some girls of a college who were fasting and fighting for Samaikya Andhra. The reporter asked a series of questions to the girls and their teacher. He asked, ‘what are you fighting for?’ A girl answered, ‘for Samaikya Andhra’. He asked why. She replied, because kalasi unte kaladu sukham (which means ‘if we stay together then we are happy’).
When the reporter asked the other girl, she said, ‘we want Samaikya Andhra, we don’t want Telangana’. (What she meant was she doesn’t want separate Telangana.) The reporter said, ‘but people of Telangana are asking for a separate state, so that means you are anti-Telangana?’ to which said, ‘we want to live together under Samaikya Andhra’.
All the girls repeated the same sentences. When probed further they could not answer his questions. One girl even suggested she will fast till death. [You have to understand that this brainwashing of students by leaders and teachers is not unique to Andhra. Even Telangana regularly resorts to this and it is unfortunate.]
After this the teacher was asked the questions. She responded, ‘Varu Swarthaparulu, Memu Niswarthaparulam’. Meaning they are selfish people, we are unselfish people. She went on to add, ‘They are behaving like British who used Divide and Rule’. ‘They’ refer to Telangana people.
Divide and Rule
Many Andhra protestors who are fasting now are standing or sitting next to a statue of Potti Sriramulu while people around them chant Samaikya Andhra. When asked, they say they are against separation, against divide and rule. They tell you with a haughty attitude that they stand for integration, for united Andhra.
But the irony cannot be missed.
Potti Sriramulu is the epitome of division. He divided Madras State to carve out Andhra State. His death spurred the First SRC which divided the nation along linguistic lines. In fact, he can be credited with biggest ‘break up’ of this country. If ever, he should be a hero for ‘division of the country’ not for integration of the country.
United we stand Divided we Fall
Lack of historical knowledge can result in naïve people coming out onto streets blurting out clichés like United we Stand, Divided we Fall. If someone is fasting you would expect little stronger reasons than those clichés.
Someone should tell the Andhra protestors that their Andhra leaders have asked for a separate state whenever they wanted to. Their biggest icon, Potti Sriramulu, stands for division of states, not unification of states, and their chant that we should ‘stay united and not divide’ standing next to his status doesn’t make sense.
In 1973, guided only by one selfish motive, to overturn the guarantees given to Telangana people, Andhra leaders have demanded for a separate state under the slogan ‘Jai Andhra’ holding the center for ransom. They succeeded in overturning the Supreme Court ruling that protected interests of Telangana people. Today, when they chant ‘United we Stand, Divided we fall’ we can’t help but only admire their Machiavellian strategies.
So the slogan should change to:
United when Andhra wants to, Divided when Andhra wants to, and Damn Telangana!
Corollary: Because of this issue, Telangana politicians are more united than ever before. So are Andhra and Rayalaseema politicians. Their unity is cutting across political parties. We should celebrate that we are uniting our politicians under one common cause, may be, two commons causes. That should still count as unity
telangana-xviii-betrayalAndhra people are using the age-old, clichéd oft repeated slogan:
UNITED WE STAND
DIVIDED WE FALL
They don’t realize this but Telangana is now UNITED against the onslaught of majority Andhra politicians who have taken them for a ride all these years. We were divided along party lines and casteist lines and hence you took advantage of us. Now, we want to stand united against the coercion of Andhra politicians. Thank you for the advice. We have taken it.
If Andhras mean we should not split and therefore should stay united as Andhra Pradesh. Then, why did Andhra split from Madras State. Why this slogan: United we stand, divided we fall, not apply back then?
We request Andhras to demonstrate this for us because we are not getting it. Why don’t they put their preaching into practice for us? Let the Andhra regions go back and join Tamil Nadu for a period of twenty years. Let them face the onslaught of majority Tamils in UNITED Madras state. And after those twenty years, if they still have extremely good experiences, Telangana will join back with Andhras to form a Samaikya Andhra.
Till then please don’t preach what you didn’t practice.
Is there any statement from GOI that AP survuves? I am curious to know the other leader you are referring to?Sarma wrote:Phew! Andhra Pradesh survives for now!
KCR cannot survive as a leader without the support of the Central Government of India, and the Central Congress leadership. I am not going to say it, but KCR reminds me of another leader, who lacked political base, but was propped up by the government, one who would make inflammatory statements like KCR, but who fell apart like a house of cards in the end.
Anuj, please contribute your thoughts, and not just cut and paste others'.
(In each case, it is pleasant shock)Sridhar wrote:
1. I have read your drafts, and support your proposal of giving power directly to citizens.{pleasant surprise}
2. Of electing the local police chief (and may I add, of electing the equivalent of a district attorney).
3. Of giving right of recall/dismissal to citizens for all levels of public servants.
4. And of course of reintroducing trial by jury.
5. These are necessary to solve many if not most of our problems.
to "AWMAA " i.e. "All wise men act alike ". Because wise men never stop at thinking, the first sign and only known proof of wisdom is a wise action. We will talk about action tomorrow.All drafts of all proposed legislation, whether they pass or not, are in public domain. The author loses ownership, copyright etc moment he proposes it. And so when you support a legislation draft, it becomes "your draft". So by supporting the so called "my" drafts, you have very much shown the drafts of the legislation you want.No, Rahul you are not going to see drafts from me. I have read your drafts, and support your proposal
The government seems to have put the creation of a new state of Telangana on the back-burner. In a statement on Wednesday evening, Home Minister P Chidambaram said that the situation in Andhra Pradesh "has changed" since the Centre sanctioned a Telangana state two weeks ago. Chidambaram pointed out that the centre's decision was made after political parties arrived at a consensus at a meeting called by the Andhra Chief Minister, K Rosaiah. Acknowledging that there are now wide differences, the Home Minister said that the government now needs to "hold lengthy discussions with all concerned in the process."
Chidambaram also said the State government must be allowed to focus on governance. "We appeal to political parties and students to withdraw their agitations and maintain peace and harmony."
Many of these people don't understand the difference between right way and wrong way.goutham wrote: I dont understand the difference between the right way as opposed to a wrong way. This agitation has been going on for decades now. Will there ever be a right time?
I am from Andhra, studied in Telangana and married into a Telangana family. Imagine our dinner conversations as most of them support TelanganaRahul Mehta wrote:
To this current AP mess, I proposed that we citizens should force AP MLAs to move a resolution that in 2014 and 2019, there will be a referendum in "Nizam area" of AP using voter list of 2009 whether Telanagna should be formed. This will zero out the existing crisis. And then APites have 5 years to remove ALL nepotism prone procedures in administration, courts. And if they do so, they demand for separate AP will reduce.
Next, AP should introduce reservation for class-III and class-IV positions in private as well as public sector in AP. This will increase job opportunity for Telanganites in coasta and seema and give them a reason to stay with AP. Chances are high that Telangana will stay if nepotism is removed completely and if reservation for APites come in coasta-seema.
Too many people have misunderstood my proposal as something that intends to divide AP. Well, all I want is to douse existing fire ASAP before it grows too big. And I want a mechanism where in people decide and not neta. Because if people decide, things will be better no matter which side AP goes and if things are left to neta, then each of them will sell out everything to highest bidder.
All this "Teli-coasta-seema" bhai-bhai will not reduce fire. Nor would 7 day fast, 14 day fast or even 21 day fast. Because everyone knows that fasts are 100% fake. If such slogans and fasting was to have any effect, fire would not have started to begin with. Get real and do something real over and above sloganeering.
. I don't care either way. But I am stunned by the hate propagated by Telugus of Telangana . 
