India Nuclear News And Discussion

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Gagan
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Gagan »

I couldn't find the video on the NDTV site. it was with Pronoy Roy IIRC. They were discussing the separation plan, and there was talk of military reactors, and BM said that we are giving up 50% of our reactors so that we will have less available for our strategic program. The words military reactor and 50% being given up were used.

But here is a link to another article, these were the days when he was critical of the deal initially.
rediff article
Q: Dr M R Srinivasan, member, Atomic Energy Commission and former secretary of Department of Atomic Energy and a distinguished scientist, told us he is satisfied with the deal and it will not cap the military capability of India.

BM: Let them come and argue with me. I'll ask them, give me an answer to this: If 50 percent of your un-safeguarded reactors are now going under safeguard then that [fissile] material is not available to you. Then, why do you say there is no cap?

Unless they tell me that we have enough [weapons].
Gagan
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Gagan »

Kanson wrote: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Same feelings here my friend. However i must admit that i'm not as lucky as you. Atleast you have one. :rotfl:
You reply clearly explains why it is necessary to discuss and debate based on facts, otherwise it derates the whole situation. And i agree on that. :wink:
No my dear kanson,
Your intention is to provoke a response. This is the reason why you have so many smileys in this post of yours. Your intention was to be sarcastic. I wonder how that contributed to this thread or the discussion.
You only posted one link in response to my post, the rest you intended to carry off with bluster, using smileys at will, and being sarcastic in general - a practice posters who consider themselves as "Experts" indulge in.

your turn, unless you want to end this here.
ShauryaT
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by ShauryaT »

Gagan: I think you are misreading the statement. At that time, except for 6 reactors, all others, i.e: 14, were not under safeguards. The separation agreement, put another 8 under safeguards. It did not mean that all the 14 non safeguarded reactors were actually being used for military purposes. The general understanding is that their potential for military use has been well understood, however, they were largely being used for civilian purposes. The PHWR's partial use to produce fissile material, would be an inefficient use of available resources and the best way would be, is to have dedicated reactors. The best public guidance for fissile material is a third coming from Cirrus, mentioned in our parliament by Arun Shourie to go by.

Almost ALL others are speculations of India's fissile material, by mostly foreign sources, based on the potential of the non safeguarded reactors, plugged into our civilian grid.

I do not have much evidence, based on Indian sources, beyond what has been publicly cited, but I believe the following, based on readings and understandings.

- Arun Shourie's estimates on Indian FM are correct, but older - pre - 1998 (the statement was made in 2006).
- Post 1998, at least some of the non safe guarded PHWR's are being used to produce fissile material, in low burn mode
- It was the above, that concerned BM, in initially not endorsing the nuclear deal, however, the INC government assured BM, that they are continuing to produce FM in quantities, consistent with what the NDA regime did, which resulted in him endorsing the deal

My understanding is Dhruva continues to be the main stay for production of Indian FM, supplemented by the TFBR and the Cirrus, to be soon closed down and this gap to be fulfilled by the unsafeguarded PHWR's and as supplemental capability available, if needed.

India's fissile material production, is under the policy guidelines of the MCD. I believe, that K. Subrahamanyam's changes in the view from about 60 weapons needed for deterrence to about 150 weapons, has a direct correlation to the additional fissile material, India has produced. India's main stay of nuclear weapons are pure fission bombs. BF weapons are a high probability and TN weapons have not been deployed. The yields of India's atomic weapons are in the 15-80 KT range, appropriately configured for missiles and gravity war heads. BF weapons are reserved for Agni II AT and Agni III and upcoming Agni V. Shourya will likely have fission bombs and some version of Agni III, when ready for SLBM will have the BF weapons.

Based on the above assumptions, one can come up with some ranges, on what is the likely fissile material that India is likely to have, how much fissile material is used in such weapons but the numbers are only as good as the assumptions. The above assumptions can and should be challenged for I offer no proof and have none. Have fun, calculating these.

Edited for clarity.
Last edited by ShauryaT on 26 Dec 2009 02:03, edited 1 time in total.
Gagan
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Gagan »

Well the BF's are untested yet.
Will India risk putting them on as solitary warheads on the A-III?
Shakti did not test a BF apparently separately from the TN's primary.
ShauryaT wrote:The above assumptions can and should be challenged for I offer no proof and have none. Have fun, calculating these.
I ask for none. :)
ShauryaT
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by ShauryaT »

Gagan wrote:Well the BF's are untested yet.
Will India risk putting them on as solitary warheads on the A-III?
Shakti did not test a BF apparently separately from the TN's primary.
The short answer is yes. Reference Adm. Arun Prakash's article a few months back.
Gagan
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Gagan »

But he said 500KT, and Gen. VP Malik said 'megatons'
Anujan
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Anujan »

I have been reading up on thorium cycle.

I think that we need an alternative to our 3-stage program. I do not mean that we should abandon the thorium cycle, we need a "competition" to PFBR-AHWR-based thorium strategy.

Possibly, Molten salt reactor or accelerator-based sub critical reactors to use thorium.

The PFBR-AHWR are too capital intensive, construction intensive and risk intensive. Atleast one competing approach is needed to not let the PFBR-AHWR go the Kaveri way. PHWR will go critical 2011/2012 and we need atleast 2 decades of experience and AHWR still has unknown risk factors and unknown sources of inefficiency (especially isotopes that emit hard gamma rays and also neutron poisons).

Also, I am 400% convinced now that ENR is absolutely necessary. Neither LWR nor PHWR (open cycle) will lead us in any way towards energy independence. Those are just hocus-pocus to sell us stuff. Also "Reprocessing is not economical" junta are BSing 20,000%. One just needs to wait till all the disarmament-based plutonium glut is over and the price of U skyrockets. Then we can talk about how reprocessing is uneconomical.

N-power will in no way be comparable to either Coal or fuel-oil based thermal power if externalities are not taken into account (the dependence on external sources of energy, the damage to environment ityadi), however if we become self sufficient in N-power, it will hardly matter.
shiv
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by shiv »

Gagan wrote:Well the BF's are untested yet.
Will India risk putting them on as solitary warheads on the A-III?
Shakti did not test a BF apparently separately from the TN's primary.
ShauryaT wrote:The above assumptions can and should be challenged for I offer no proof and have none. Have fun, calculating these.
I ask for none. :)
From all the reading I did in the thick of discussion we had in the last 3 months I get the impression (impression not proof) that if you test a thermonuclear device successfully say 10 times, you then have the possibility that perhaps 90% of your warheads will work as advertised. By "work as advertised" I mean - "will yield the stated yield". More than 90% will provide some yield - perhaps not as much as planned. In other words thee is a "degree of confidence" that can be assigned to these warheads - all tested in this case.

If you make untested warheads the degree of confidence will be less, but with non-nincompoops in the design team, the degree of confidence can be acceptably high for fission and boosted fission warheads. I have no idea about TN warheads.
Gagan
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Gagan »

Is a BF as simple as having some DT gas in the middle of the Pu core?

How much confidence can one expect to have over a BF design that has not been tested at all? Here I am not even talking of the TN. Didn't people say that the Shakti series was a poorly designed set of tests?
shiv
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by shiv »

Gagan wrote:Is a BF as simple as having some DT gas in the middle of the Pu core?

How much confidence can one expect to have over a BF design that has not been tested at all? Here I am not even talking of the TN. Didn't people say that the Shakti series was a poorly designed set of tests?
Gagan when we are talking about what "people said" - a lot of people have said a lot of things. There is a huge amount of information on the net about nuclear devices and I have read through a lot of what I found. I am sure you can do that too and reach your own conclusions.

I kept on posting my sources though weeks of discussions. I also archived every source on my own HDD. If you want I will post whatever refs I have and you can read them so that I do not have to prompt you in any way.
Gagan
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Gagan »

Shiv saar,
Please post the links, would love to go through them.
and please check your mail.
shiv
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by shiv »

Gagan wrote:Shiv saar,
Please post the links, would love to go through them.
and please check your mail.
Gagan thx for that email

Try these links. There is one more good link missing - I have to locate it
http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/
This is huge with great info

http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0401110
Another great paper

http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Sci ... ission.htm
http://www.nrdc.org/nuclear/fissionw/fissionweapons.pdf
http://www.dcr.net/~stickmak/JOHT/joht17bang.htm
Last edited by shiv on 27 Dec 2009 13:49, edited 1 time in total.
Sanatanan
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Sanatanan »

shiv wrote: . . .

Try these links.
. . .

http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/sc. ... ission.htm
. . .
The above quoted link does not seem to work. I either get a "HTTP Error 404 - This page cannot be found", or "HTTP 403: Forbidden" (when I try the partial URL up to http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/) error message.

Could you please help?

The other links work OK and as you said, are good sources of information.

TIA.
shiv
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by shiv »

Sanatanan wrote:
shiv wrote: . . .

Try these links.
. . .

http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/sc. ... ission.htm
. . .
The above quoted link does not seem to work.
Could you please help?

TIA.
This should work

http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Sci ... ission.htm
arun
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by arun »

A whole bunch of heavy weights are signatory to this statement including Dr P.K. Iyengar, Prof. Ashok Parthasarathi, Dr A.N. Prasad, K. Santhanam and Dr A. Gopalakrishnan.:
Mainstream, Vol XLVIII, No 1, December 26, 2009 - Annual Number 2009

On Thermonuclear Weapon Capability and its Implications for Credible Minimum Deterrence

Statement by Deeply Concerned Senior Scientists

Saturday 26 December 2009

Soon after the Pokhran-II tests on May 11 1998, the scientists of the two organisations concerned, the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) and the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO), had jointly evaluated the success of the two tests—the fission device (A-bomb) and the fusion device (H-bomb). While the former device performed perfectly including creating a crater of the expected size, the fusion device failed on many counts—very low yield, no crater etc. International monitoring centres also recorded low intensity of shock waves, resulting in low yield estimates—estimates that were more in consonance with the DRDO numbers. This was discussed among the BARC and DRDO scientists involved—and resulted in a dispute between them. A detailed report submitted by DRDO to the government fully corroborated its original assessment viz. that, while the fission device worked successfully as expected, the fusion device did not. The recent revealation by Dr K. Santhanam, who was in charge of all of DRDO’s activities at the site, testify to this. By all accounts—geological, radio-chemical as well as seismic—it is now quite clear that the fusion device yielded a very low value of explosive power. The articles by K. Santhanam and Prof Ashok Parthasarathi in The Hindu (September 17, 2009) and P.K. Iyenger in Outlook (October 26, 2009) go into considerable technical detail and present a credible case, beyond all reasonable doubt, that the H-bomb tested on May 11, 1998 failed.

These findings are extremely serious for the security of the nation, particularly in the context of our pronouncement of being a nuclear weapon power, along with our enunciated doctrine of ‘no first use’ and our ‘unilateral voluntary moratorium on nuclear testing’. They strike at the root of our weaponisation capability and compromise our strategy of Credible Minimum Nuclear Deterrence.

Soon after the Pokhran-II Tests, the then government almost succumbed to Western pressure to sign the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT) backing off only at the last moment due to an outcry in the country against doing so. The refusal of the US Senate to ratify the CTBT then released the pressure on the government. The renewed pressure from President Obama on us in recent months to sign the CTBT is causing the issue of our signing the CTBT to be raised again. We strongly urge the present government to remain firm in its opposition to our doing so, as the Prime Minister has publicly assured the nation more than once in recent months. ……………………….

We, therefore, strongly urge the government to immediately set up a High Level, Independent, Broad-Based Panel of Experts to define and monitor the implementation, on a continuing basis, of an effective course of action, in the realm of thermo-nuclear weapons, so central to our national security. All of us have worked on different aspects of this problem with a sound understanding of the harsh ground realities and the immense magnitude of what is at stake. It is now for the government to Take the Call—and without losing a minute more—as its counterparts in our adversaries have and are continuing to do so. …………………………………

Mainstream
Sanatanan
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Sanatanan »

Thank you, the revised link works OK.
ShauryaT
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by ShauryaT »

Signatories to the above:
Signatories to the Statement

1. Dr P.K. Iyengar, former Chairman Atomic Energy Commission, Director BARC and a key architect of the Pokhran-I nuclear test of May 18, 1974 and internationally acknowledged as India’s top nuclear weapons expert; (2) Prof Ashok Parthasarathi, former Science Adviser to Late Prime Minister Indira Gandhi for many years and Secretary of many major Scientific Departments of Government of India; (3) Dr A.N. Prasad, former Director, BARC and Member (R&D) of the Atomic Energy Commission, a former Senior Adviser to the IAEA, Vienna for many years on nuclear safeguards, and a key member of India’s orginal weapons grade plutonium exrtraction technology development since inception in 1960 and a former Commissioner of UN MOVIC (UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission) for disarming Iraq of Weapons of Mass Destruction; (4) K. Santhanam, Chief Adviser (Technologies), DRDO and Project Coordinator of Pokhran-II Series of Nuclear Weapon Tests; (5) Dr A. Gopalakrishnan, one of the key Technology Directors of our Advanced Technology Vehicle (ATV) project for several years, which developed the indiogenous nuclear submarine Arihant and former Chairman, Atomic Energy Regulatory Boad; (6) Dr C.K. Mathews, former Head, Radio Chemistry Division, BARC and Director Chemistry Group, Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research, Kalpakkam; (7) Dr Jaipal Mittal, Raja Ramana Fellow and former Director, Chemistry Group, BARC; (8) Dr A.D. Damodaran, former Director, Special Materials Plant, Nuclear Fuel Complex and former Director, Regional Research Laboratory, Thiruvananthapuram; (9) Dr S.R. Valluri, former Director, National Aerospace Laboratory and first Director General of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the organisation specially set up to design and develop the Light Combat Aircraft—Tejas; (10) Rear Admiral J.J. Baxi, former Director, Weapons and Electronics Systems Organisation, Ministry of Defence and Chairman and Managing Director, Bharat Electronics Ltd.; (11) Dr K.S. Jayaraman, formerly Nuclear Physics Division, BARC, Science Correspondent of the PTI for many years, Science Correspondent for South Asia for the leading international journal Nature and President, Indian Science Writers’ Association.
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by ldev »

1. Dr P.K. Iyengar, former Chairman Atomic Energy Commission, Director BARC and a key architect of the Pokhran-I nuclear test of May 18, 1974 and internationally acknowledged as India’s top nuclear weapons expert; (2) Prof Ashok Parthasarathi, former Science Adviser to Late Prime Minister Indira Gandhi for many years and Secretary of many major Scientific Departments of Government of India; (3) Dr A.N. Prasad, former Director, BARC and Member (R&D) of the Atomic Energy Commission, a former Senior Adviser to the IAEA, Vienna for many years on nuclear safeguards, and a key member of India’s orginal weapons grade plutonium exrtraction technology development since inception in 1960 and a former Commissioner of UN MOVIC (UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission) for disarming Iraq of Weapons of Mass Destruction; (4) K. Santhanam, Chief Adviser (Technologies), DRDO and Project Coordinator of Pokhran-II Series of Nuclear Weapon Tests; (5) Dr A. Gopalakrishnan, one of the key Technology Directors of our Advanced Technology Vehicle (ATV) project for several years, which developed the indiogenous nuclear submarine Arihant and former Chairman, Atomic Energy Regulatory Boad; (6) Dr C.K. Mathews, former Head, Radio Chemistry Division, BARC and Director Chemistry Group, Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research, Kalpakkam; (7) Dr Jaipal Mittal, Raja Ramana Fellow and former Director, Chemistry Group, BARC; (8) Dr A.D. Damodaran, former Director, Special Materials Plant, Nuclear Fuel Complex and former Director, Regional Research Laboratory, Thiruvananthapuram; (9) Dr S.R. Valluri, former Director, National Aerospace Laboratory and first Director General of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the organisation specially set up to design and develop the Light Combat Aircraft—Tejas; (10) Rear Admiral J.J. Baxi, former Director, Weapons and Electronics Systems Organisation, Ministry of Defence and Chairman and Managing Director, Bharat Electronics Ltd.; (11) Dr K.S. Jayaraman, formerly Nuclear Physics Division, BARC, Science Correspondent of the PTI for many years, Science Correspondent for South Asia for the leading international journal Nature and President, Indian Science Writers’ Association.
On the face of it, a very impressive list of people, in fact it is very very impressive. Solid, impressive credentials, many years of experience etc. etc. all 10 or 11 of them.

Then I decided to go to the BARC website and what I found was the following list:

DIRECTOR, B.A.R.C. Dr. S. BANERJEE
GROUP OF DIRECTORS
ASSOCIATE DIRECTORS
HEAD OF DIVISIONS

GROUP DIRECTORS

ADMINISTRATIVE GROUP Mr. N. D. SHARMA, Controller
BEAM TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT GROUP Dr. S. BANERJEE
BIO-MEDICAL GROUP Dr. K. B. SAINIS
CHEMICAL ENGINEERING GROUP Mr. S. K. GHOSH
CHEMICAL TECHNOLOGY GROUP Dr. S. BANERJEE
CHEMISTRY GROUP Dr. T. MUKHERJEE
DESIGN, MANUFACTURING & AUTOMATION GROUP Mr. R. K. SINHA
ELECTRONICS & INSTRUMENTATION GROUP Mr. G.P. SRIVASTAVA
ENGINEERING SERVICES GROUP Mr. V. K. MEHRA
HEALTH SAFETY & ENVIRONMENT GROUP Mr. H. S. KUSHWAHA
KNOWLEDGE MANAGEMENT GROUP Dr. R. B. GROVER
MATERIALS GROUP Dr. A. K SURI
NUCLEAR FUELS GROUP Mr. H. S. KAMATH
NUCLEAR RECYCLEGROUP Mr. S. D. MISRA
PHYSICS GROUP Director BARC
RADIO CHEMISTRY & ISOTOPE GROUP Dr. V. VENUGOPAL
REACTOR DESIGN & DEVELOPMENT GROUP Mr. R. K. SINHA
REACTOR GROUP Mr. V. K. RAINA
REACTOR PROJECTS GROUP Mr. V. K. MEHRA

ASSOCIATE DIRECTORS
BEAM TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT GROUP Dr. L. M. GANTAYET
BIO-MEDICAL GROUP (A) DR. S. F. D'SOUZA
BIO-MEDICAL GROUP (B) DR. S. K. APTE
CHEMICAL TECHNOLOGY GROUP Mr. T. K. BERA
CHEMISTRY GROUP Dr. S. V. NARSIMHAN
DESIGN, MANUFACTURING & AUTOMATION GROUP Mr. MANJIT SINGH
ELECTRONICS & INSTRUMENTATION GROUP (C) Mr. R. K. PATIL
ELECTRONICS & INSTRUMENTATION GROUP (T) Mr. S. BHATTACHARYA
NUCLEAR FUELS GROUP Mr. R. P. SINGH
NUCLEAR RECYCLE GROUP (PROJECTS) Mr. S. BASU
PHYSICS GROUP (N) Dr. S. KAILAS
PHYSICS GROUP (S) Dr. J. V. YAKHMI
REACTOR PROJECTS GROUP Mr. S. BASU

HEAD OF DIVISIONS
ACCELERATOR & PULSE POWER DIVISION Mr. D. P. CHAKRAVARTHY
ANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY DIVISION Dr. A. V. R. REDDY
APPLIED PHYSICS DIVISION Dr. S. C. GUPTA
ARCHITECTURE & CIVIL ENGINEERING DIVISION Mr. K. SRINIVAS
ASTROPHYSICAL SCIENCES DIVISION Mr. RAMESH KOUL
ATOMIC FUELS DIVISION Mr. R. P. SINGH
BACK-END TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT DIVISION Mr. P. K. WATTAL
BIO-ORGANIC DIVISION Dr. S. CHATTOPADHYAY
CENTRE FOR DESIGN AND MANUFACTURE Mr. R. L. SUTHAR
CHEMICAL ENGINEERING DIVISION Mr. HANMANTH RAO
CHEMICAL TECHNOLOGY DIVISION Mr. A. K. SINGHAL
CHEMISTRY DIVISION Dr. D. DAS
COMPUTATONAL ANALYSIS DIVISION Dr. SHASHANK CHATURVEDI
COMPUTER DIVISION Mr. A. G. APTE
CONTROL INSTRUMENTATION DIVISION Mr. U. MAHAPATRA
CRYO - TECHNOLOGY DIVISION Mr. TRILOK SINGH
DESALINATION DIVISION Dr. P. K. TEWARI
DIVISION OF REMOTE HANDLING & ROBOTICS Mr. MANJIT SINGH
ELECTRONIC & INSTRUMENTATION SERVICES DIVISION Mr. V.K. CHADDA
ELECTRONICS DIVISION Mr. P. K. MUKHOPADHYAY
ENERGETCS & ELECTROMAGNETIC DIVISION Dr. ANURAG SHYAM
ENGINEERING DESIGN & DEVELOPMENT DIVISION Mr. K. N. MAHULE
ENGINEERING SERVICES DIVISION (V) Mr. P. LAHIRI
ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT DIVISION Mr. V. D. PURANIK
FOOD TECHNOLOGY DIVISION Dr. A. K. SHARMA
FUEL CHEMISTRY DIVISION Dr. S. K. AGGARWAL
FUEL REPROCESSING DIVISION Mr. P. K. DEY
HEALTH PHYSICS DIVISION Dr. P.K. SARKAR
HEAVY WATER DIVISION Mr. S. K. GHOSH
HIGH PRESSURE PHYSICS DIVISION Dr. S. M. SHARMA
HUMAN RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT DIVISION Dr. R. R. PURI
INFRASTRUCTURAL PROJECTS DIVISION Mr. A. K. SINGH
INTERNAL FINANCIAL ADVISOR / HEAD, ACCOUNTS DIVISION Mr. AYYANAN RAMAIAH
ISOTOPE APPLICATION DIVISION Dr. GURSHARAN SINGH
LASER & PLASMA TECHNOLOGY DIVISION Dr. A. K. DAS
LIGHT WATER REACTOR DIVISION Mr. R. R. S. YADAV
MACHINE DYNAMICS DIVISION Mr. G. GOUTHAMAN
MATERIAL PROCESSING DIVISION HEAD, MPD
MATERIALS SCIENCE DIVISION Dr. G. K. DEY
MEDICAL DIVISION Dr. V. KARIRA
METALLIC FUELS DIVISION Dr. G. J. PRASAD
MINERAL PROCESSING DIVISION Dr. N. P. H. PADMANABHAN
MOLECULAR BIOLOGY DIVISION Dr. S. K. APTE
NUCLEAR AGRICULTURE & BIO-TECHNOLOGY DIVISION Dr. S. F. D'SOUZA
NUCLEAR PHYSICS DIVISION Dr. R. K. CHOUDHARY
PERSONNEL DIVISION Mr. S. GOVERDHAN RAO
PLANNING AND COORDINATION DIVISION Mr. S. G. MARKANDEYA
POST IRRADIATION EXAMINATION DIVISION Mr. S. ANANTHARAMAN
POWDER METALLURGY DIVISION Dr. D. SATHIYAMOORTHY
PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT DIVISION Mr. B. K. SEN
QUALITY ASSURANCE DIVISION Mr. B. K. SHAH
RADIATION & PHOTOCHEMISTRY DIVISION Dr. S. K. SARKAR
RADIATION BIOLOGY & HEALTH SCIENCES DIVISION Dr. M. SESHADRI
RADIATION MEDICINE CENTRE Dr. M. G. R. RAJAN
RADIATION SAFETY SYSTEMS DIVISION Dr. D. N. SHARMA
RADIATION TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT DIVISION Dr. S. SABHARWAL
RADIO CHEMISTRY DIVISION Dr. V. K. MANCHANDA
RADIO METALLURGY DIVISION Mr. ARUN KUMAR
RADIOANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY DIVISION Dr. K. L. RAMAKUMAR
RADIOLOGICAL PHYSICS & ADVISORY DIVISION Dr. Y. S. MAYYA
RADIOPHARMACEUTICALS DIVISION Dr. (Mrs.) MEERA VENKATESH
REACTOR CONTROL DIVISION Mr. B. B. BISWAS
REACTOR ENGINEERING DIVISION Mr. DILIP SAHA
REACTOR OPERATIONS DIVISION Mr. S. DURAISAMY
REACTOR PHYSICS DESIGN DIVISION Mr. P. D. KRISHNANI
REACTOR PROJECTS DIVISION Mr. C. G. UTGE
REACTOR SAFETY DIVISION Dr. A. K. GHOSH
REFUELING TECHNOLOGY DIVISION Mr. R. G. AGRAWAL
RESEARCH REACTOR DESIGN & PROJECTS DIVISION Mr. K. SASIDHARAN
RESEARCH REACTOR MAINTENANCE DIVISION Mr. A. V. KHARPATE
RESEARCH REACTOR SERVICES DIVISION Mr. R. C. SHARMA
SCIENTIFIC INFORMATION RESOURCE DIVISION Dr. K BHANUMURTHY
SEISMOLOGY DIVISION Dr. G. J. NAIR
SOLID STATE PHYSICS DIVISION Dr. S. L. CHAPLOT
SPECTROSCOPY DIVISION AD(S) Physics Group
TECHNICAL PHYSICS & PROTOTYPE ENGINEERING DIVISION Dr. J. V. YAKHMI
TECHNICAL SERVICES DIVISION Mr. RAM KISHAN
TECHNOLOGY TRANSFER AND COLLABORATION DIVISION Mr. A. M. PATANKAR
THEORETICAL PHYSICS DIVISION Dr. S. V. G. MENON
URANIUM EXTRACTION DIVISION Dr. (Mrs.) S. B. ROY
VACUUM PHYSICS & INSTRUMENTATION Mr. V. K. HANDU
WASTE MANAGEMENT DIVISION Mr. KANWAR RAJ
WATER & STEAM CHEMISTRY DIVISION Dr. S. V. NARASIMHAN



and then I saw the list of associate organizations each with their own websites under the DAE.

Department of Atomic Energy (DAE), India

RESEARCH CENTRES
Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research (IGCAR)
Raja Ramanna Centre for Advanced Technology (RRCAT)
Formerly known as the Centre for Advanced Technology (CAT)
Variable Energy Cyclotron Centre(VECC)
Atomic Minerals Directorate for Exploration and Research (AMD)

NUCLEAR POWER
Nuclear Power Corporation of India Limited (NPCIL)
Bharatiya Nabhikiya Vidyut Nigam (BHAVINI)
INDUSTRIES

Nuclear Fuel Complex (NFC)
Heavy Water Board (HWB)
Uranium Corporation of India Limited (UCIL)
Indian Rare Earths Limited (IREL)
Electronics Corporation of India Limited (ECIL)
Board of Radiation and Isotope Techology (BRIT)
SERVICE ORGANISATIONS
Directorate of Purchase and Stores (DPS)
Directorate of Construction, Services and Estate Management (DCSEM)

GRANT IN AID INSTITUTIONS and OTHERS
Tata Institute of Fundamental Research (TIFR)
Saha Institute of Nuclear Physics (SINP)
Tata Memorial Centre (TMC)
Tata Memorial Centre (ACTREC) [Advance Centre for Treatment, Research & education in Cancer]
The Harish-Chandra Research Institute
Formerly known as the Mehta Research Institute of Mathematics and Mathematical Physics
Institute of Physics (IOP)
Institute of Mathematical Sciences (IMSc)
Institute of Plasma Research (IPR)
Facilitation Centre for Industrial Plasma Technologies (FCIPT)
Atomic Energy Education Society (AEES)
Board of Research in Nuclear Sciences (BRNS)
National Board for Higher Mathematics (NBHM)
Homi Bhabha National Institute (HBNI)
National Institute of Science Education and Research (NISER)
Centre for Excellence in Basic Sciences
REGULATORY AUTHORITY
Atomic Energy Regulatory Board (AERB)
And I have no idea how many hundreds or thousands of other comparable level employees these other organizations have.

But if only 10 or 11 of the thousands of key personnel who are involved at a senior level are the only ones making all this noise, then I wouldnt worry.

By the way the links for this information are:

http://www.barc.ernet.in/about/organ.html
http://www.barc.gov.in/dae_units.html
Sanatanan
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Sanatanan »

From Economic Times:
Irda sounds out insurers on nuclear accident cover
29 Dec 2009, 0224 hrs IST, Hema Ramakrishnan & Mayur Shetty, ET Bureau

NEW DELHI|MUMBAI: A year after private nuclear plants became a possibility in India following the Indo-US nuclear deal, the insurance regulator is deliberating with companies to cover liabilities arising out of nuclear accidents, which is essential for such plants.

“Our discussions on insurance covers for nuclear risks are at a preliminary stage,” Irda chairman J Hari Narayan told ET. “We need to examine global practices of covering such a liability before taking a final view,” he said.

The nuclear treaty of last year allows India to carry out nuclear trade, have options for nuclear power and access to sensitive technology which are also used for nuclear weapons. But the absence of rules for insurance in the sector prevented progress in setting up new plants.

Currently, nuclear risks are not covered by any policy, as insurers do not have the wherewithal to estimate liabilities. All property insurance covers exclude losses due to nuclear reaction, nuclear radiation or radioactive contamination.

In most countries, operators of nuclear plants buy insurance cover as they are liable to pay compensation for any damage. Normally, the liability is limited by both international conventions and national legislation. The state has the responsibility to accept any liability more than insured. The absence of such covers here may make it difficult to fund relief, if an accident occurs.

The US, for instance, is not bound by any international nuclear liability convention. The liability from a nuclear accident is addressed by the Price Anderson Act of 1956, which provides $10 billion in cover without cost to the government. It covers power reactors, research reactors and all other nuclear facilities. More than $200 million has been paid by US insurance pools in claims and costs of litigation since the Price Anderson Act came into effect, all of it by the insurance pools.

The beginning of discussions itself may not lead to a set of rules soon, since the negotiations with global re-insurers are going to be hard. “There is now scope for private sector participation in nuclear power generation. We have been working with international re-insurers to form a pool to cover nuclear risks. But that will take some time to fructify,” said Yogesh Lohiya, chairman, GIC.

Incidentally, a partial cover for nuclear power plants was introduced by Oriental Insurance earlier under the chairmanship of Mr Lohiya. “At that time, providing a cover was difficult, as re-insurers wanted inspection of the site, which was not possible. Despite this, we managed to arrange cover for the cold zone of nuclear plants,” he said. A nuclear power plant has a “hot zone”, which is the critical area where the nuclear reactions take place and a “cold zone” where steam generated turbines are operated.

A pool mechanism, as in the case of terror insurance, may be a suitable one, said M Ramadoss, CMD at Oriental Insurance. Under a pool the premium collected by various insurers under terror cover are kept in a separate account. For any claim beyond a prescribed amount, the company dips into the pool resources to pay for claims. But that may not be enough, since claims from nuclear accidents could be huge and it may need government support

“The capacity of insurance industry may not be enough for nuclear incidents, although a nuclear incident lends itself better to modelling than a terrorist attack. Nuclear incidents are insured to certain extent, but not entirely. In most countries, they have pools which take the bottom part of the risks. On top of that, you tend to have a government scheme,” Nikolaus von Bomhard, chairman of Munich Re had told ET.

Pooling is not the only issue that needs to be settled, but also inspections of sites by re-insurers who may have to take the major portion of liabilities, if accidents occur. “We are ready with the wordings. But there are issues over the inspection of the plant sites by re-insurers that need to be sorted out,” said Mr Ramadoss.

However, senior industry experts are wary of the capacity of the insurance industry. “In the case of terror risks, it is easy to have a pool as everyone wants to buy terror cover. This has led to the creation of a pool with the capacity to underwrite risks. But, we do not know how many will buy the add on cover for nuclear risks,” said a chief underwriter with a non-life company, who did not want to be identified.

Nuclear insurance may not be just for an accident, but can be for an extended period since the nature of the business leads to potential damages for generations. “The primary issue is the slow gradual degradation of radioactive matter where the damage may be felt not just over years, but across generations,” said a CEO of another insurance company. “Besides, the impact of a nuclear incident may not just be from Indian soil.” He said there was also an issue of the private participant’s liability.

In legislation, which it plans to bring, the government has proposed capping the liability for the operator of a nuclear installation at Rs 300 crore. This has been opposed by some, most notably by the former attorney general, Soli Sorabjee, who has argued in a number of newspaper articles that the capping violates Supreme Court judgements. There should also be some liability on the technology provider to make sure that they are not dumping outdated technology in India, an expert said.

In the UK, the Energy Act 1983 prescribed a threshold for liability of particular installations. A large chunk of the insurance is provided by a pool of UK insurers, called the Nuclear Risk Insurers. The government provides a level of assistance beyond the cap of £140 million. In mainland Europe, individual countries such as Germany, France and Switzerland have legislation in sync with the international conventions and cap levels vary.
Inspections of the npps by re-insurers is not IAEA Safeguards Inspections, but would be over and above that.
Umrao Das
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Umrao Das »

Very impressive analysis by ldev as usual
But then agian I am deeply worried that his conclusion only a few of 11,000 odd directors etc heavy water weights have signed....

So many with apathy, Wow fantatsic future Indeed for India's premier organization.
Once again thanks to ldev ji for his foresight and soothing uvacha.

(note those who did not sign could have said everything is honky dori... yes its pathang season in Hyderabad dori quite popular :mrgreen: )


PS: It doesnt matter it works or not we will never use it besides we may continue Agni tests for ever..., we OK dokey
Gerard
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Gerard »

Sanatanan wrote:Inspections of the npps by re-insurers is not IAEA Safeguards Inspections, but would be over and above that.
Surely a safety inspection is quite different from a safeguards inspection
sum
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by sum »

Fire reported at BARC. 2 reported killed. Hope its nothing very serious.

Scary that two "suspicious accidents" should happen within a month of each other at Kaiga and BARC (if BARC issue is also proved to be a "uncommon incident"). Hope its nothing sinister.
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Gerard »

NRao
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

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On the signatories topic, they all I think are retired Scicoms. I very much doubt if serving Scicom will have the green light to talk.

I would be most interested in what Mr. Matthew has to say and why he is keeping quite on the topic of Radiochem.
Neela
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Neela »

NRao wrote:On the signatories topic, they all I think are retired Scicoms. I very much doubt if serving Scicom will have the green light to talk.

I would be most interested in what Mr. Matthew has to say and why he is keeping quite on the topic of Radiochem.
My thoughts too.

Anyway, Japanese PM is in India and says the CTBT is the stumbling block between India and Japan Nuclear trade.
Big players in Japan are Kawasaki, Toshiba and Mitsubishi each providing critical tech to all the major players like Areva/Westinghouse etc. In fact, I _think_ there is a one to one relationship with Japanese companies and Western ones.

I have that heard that Toshiba is a clear leader in metal welding technology for reactors. Areva for example gets some parts from the Japanese companies for these critical parts.
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Gagan »

This is a huge domestic issue in Japan, where the Japanese PM is dutybound to say some anti nuclear stuff etc etc on a visit, it would be more interesting to see what deals are agreed to.

I wonder if Japan will be willing to hold back its own heavy industries in joining the Indian nuclear plant building festival this decade.
Last edited by Gagan on 30 Dec 2009 08:03, edited 1 time in total.
Babu Bihari
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Babu Bihari »

Japan wants India to sign CTBT, PM puts onus on US, China

Hatoyama said, "In response, Prime Minister Singh said should the US and China ratify the CTBT, a new situation will emerge. I believe he has stated it as a matter of fact. We firmly have to engage in these endeavours."
My simple pooch is, what would be pradhan mantriji's stand will be IF US and China ratify CTBT?
ShauryaT
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by ShauryaT »

He will sign - without additional tests.
Gagan
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Gagan »

He will sign - with additional tests.
Babu Bihari
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Babu Bihari »

Gagan wrote:He will sign - with additional tests.
Gagan bhai, I hope and wish what you say turns out to be true. But let us look at what happened in the past 5-6 years: opaqueness with which the N-deal was signed, PMji didn't upheld his promises to the Parliament, N-liability bill, S-e-S, End-user verification, entry to GM...all this doesn't inspire confidence and I am tempted to go with ShauryaTji at this stage. I think our best bet right now are the Reps in US of A, hope they come to the rescue of our PMji and save him from dharam-sankat.

At the same time, a part of me feels that PMji would spring a surprise on everyone and call for more tests before signing.
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by ShauryaT »

NRao wrote: I very much doubt if serving Scicom will have the green light to talk.

I would be most interested in what Mr. Matthew has to say and why he is keeping quite on the topic of Radiochem.
They do not have a green light to do ANY talking without clearance. I did a brief search on Matthews, did not find anything worthwhile. On the 1000's of such scientists, I can only say :)
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by pgbhat »

Two scientists killed as fire breaks out at BARC
"The fire broke out in the chemical lab on the third floor of the Modular lab atthe BARC," Director and Atomic Energy Commission Chairman Sreekumar Banerjee said.

The fire brigade and police are yet to ascertain the cause of the blaze which broke out on Tuesday afternoon. Fire tenders were rushed to the spot and the blaze was doused within 45 minutes.

Usually, seven people worked in the lab but on Tuesday only two were there.
Last edited by pgbhat on 29 Dec 2009 23:34, edited 1 time in total.
NRao
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by NRao »

ShauryaT wrote:
NRao wrote: I very much doubt if serving Scicom will have the green light to talk.

I would be most interested in what Mr. Matthew has to say and why he is keeping quite on the topic of Radiochem.
They do not have a green light to do ANY talking without clearance. I did a brief search on Matthews, did not find anything worthwhile. On the 1000's of such scientists, I can only say :)
My point WRT Matthews is that he was in RadioChem at BARC - and IIRC during 1998 tests. IF SO, he must know more than anyone else on that topic. His signature is an indicator IMHO which way he is leaning, but I would love to hear more from him.

____________________________________

On CTBT, pure BS. MMS knows that it is going no where. Bet even Japan will want to verify what China does. However, Japan will never hesitate to have a different SET of rules for India. And, China will shamelessly use Japan to hide behind and try and bend India. And, Japan shamelessly will do the needful as far and as much as possible - plenty of bones there for that dog.
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Sanatanan »

From Financial Express:
Beyond the Hyde Act

GOPALAN BALACHANDRAN
Posted: Wednesday, Dec 30, 2009 at 2249 hrs IST
Updated: Wednesday, Dec 30, 2009 at 2249 hrs IST

In recent days, there has been a lot of debate on the progress of the Indo-US bilateral discussion on civil nuclear trade. The issue was discussed when the Indian Prime Minister was visiting the US, and it also came up in the discussions between Indian and US companies during the latters’ recent visit to India. The debate has been focused exclusively on two aspects. For the US side, the key issue has been the need for India to enact a suitable nuclear liability law. For the Indian side, the debate has revolved around certain elements of the US Code of Federal Regulations (CFR).

CFR is the codification of the general and permanent rules published in the Federal Register by the executive departments and agencies of the Federal government. It is divided into 50 titles that represent broad areas subject to Federal regulation.

Title 10 deals with energy and under the Title, Parts 0-199 deal with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. 10 CFR 810 deals with ‘assistance to foreign atomic energy activities’. India has moved forward on the nuclear liability legislation. The issues connected with 10 CFR 810 are minor in nature and can be easily resolved.

However, there still exist some major impediments to stress-free India-US commerce in civil nuclear area. Surprisingly, all the major players in the drama —the US and Indian governments, the US industry and the Indian industry—seem to have missed these elements, all of which relate to US government lapses in making appropriate changes to domestic laws.

The Henry J Hyde United States-India Peaceful Atomic Energy Cooperation Act of 2006, popularly known as the Hyde Act, was passed into law in mid-December 2006, more than three years ago. In spite of this three-year gap, the US government has not yet amended its regulations governing export and import of nuclear equipment and material, codified by 10 CFR 110. The regulations in this part prescribe licensing, enforcement, and rulemaking procedures and criteria, under the Atomic Energy Act for the export of nuclear equipment and material, and the regulations in this part apply to all persons in the US.

As a result, notwithstanding the Hyde Act and the US-India 123 agreement, civil nuclear cooperation between the US and India remains at the same state of exception and denials that has characterised India-US civil nuclear relations since 1978, when the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 was amended.

The particular sections of 10 CFR 110 that inhibit India-US civil nuclear trade and that need to be amended in light of the Hyde Act are Sec 110.29, 110.42 and 110.46.

Section 110.29 lists the restricted destinations, countries that are not parties to the NPT or are listed for reasons recommended by the executive branch. India is still listed as a restricted destination. As a consequence, any application for a licence to export any nuclear material or equipment to any restricted country, including India, will have to be promptly referred to the executive branch for review to provide, amongst other things, its judgment as to whether the proposed export would be inimical to common defence and security, along with supporting rationale and information. This was certainly not the intention of either the Hyde Act or the two governments when they negotiated the nuclear agreement.

Section 110.42 lists the export licensing criteria. Amongst other items, 110.42 (6) states that, “With respect to exports of such material or facilities to non-nuclear weapon states, IAEA safeguards will be maintained with respect to all peaceful activities in, under the jurisdiction of, or carried out under the control of such state at the time of export.[/b] This criterion will not be applied if the Commission has been notified by the President in writing that failure to approve an export because this criterion has not been met would be seriously prejudicial to the achievement of United States nonproliferation objectives or otherwise jeopardise the common defence and security, in which case the provisions of section 128 of the Atomic Energy Act regarding Congressional review will apply.” The intention of the Hyde Act was to remove the requirement of full-scope safeguards.

In the absence of an amendment to 110.42(6), the requirement still stands.

Section 110.46 deals with conduct resulting in termination of nuclear exports. According to 110.46(a) (1), “Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no licence will be issued to export nuclear equipment or material, other than byproduct material, to any non-nuclear weapon state that is found by the President to have, after March 10, 1978, detonated a nuclear explosive device.” The Hyde Act had exempted India from this requirement. However, 10 CFR 100 still retains this condition, which would require a Presidential waiver before any civil nuclear trade can take place.

These are the three major amendments that will have to be notified by the US government before there can be any normal civil nuclear trade with India, notwithstanding any nuclear liability law or 10 CFR 810 resolution.

—The author is visiting fellow, IDSA and National Maritime Foundation
That US Govt should suitably amend 10CFR -- was it one of the conditions of the 123? !
Umrao Das
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Umrao Das »

One fire BARC is nothing there were many in US USSR PRC UK French Labs.
So our record is steller. The logic is same as fussion fission debate. Everything about BARC is beyond doubt or question, only those who played with chemicals will know what is the true yield of the chemicals.

I would not worry too much because of DDM.
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by ShauryaT »

NRao wrote: On CTBT, pure BS. MMS knows that it is going no where.
I guess, what you are saying is MMS knows Obama is not serious and/or it will not go through the US senate?
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by ldev »

Umrao Das wrote:Very impressive analysis by ldev as usual
......

..... Wow fantatsic future Indeed for India's premier organization.
Once again thanks to ldev ji for his foresight and soothing uvacha.

(note those who did not sign could have said everything is honky dori... yes its pathang season in Hyderabad dori quite popular :mrgreen: )
With your fulsome praise I knew I could count on you. With your support I do know that India is in safe hands. :D
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by shravan »

BARC fire was not accidental, says director
Mumbai, Dec 30 (PTI) The fire at the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre was not a mere accident and could be "some one's" way of checking the preparedness of the nuclear centre in the backdrop of intelligence reports of a possible terror attack, said former Director of the centre A N Prasad.

"It could be that someone is testing us (BARC) to know our preparedness and response to such incidents. We have been told by intelligence that BARC is one of targets for terror attacks," Prasad told PTI from Bangalore today.

Two persons were killed in the fire yesterday at the high-security premises.

From media reports one could conjuncture that someone is trying to ascertain how vulnerable the centre is, he said adding, the security system of the centre should not be disclosed.
Sanatanan
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Sanatanan »

Video of CANDU ACR 1000 Onpower Refuelling process (6.49 Mins).

India's 220 MWe and 540 MWe PHWRs must be routinely doing this too.

I have not seen this link posted in BRF before. My apologies if it has already been posted.

Locked