Telangana Monitor

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ShyamSP
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by ShyamSP »

anuj wrote:
ShyamSP wrote:Telenagana if they had approached peacefully
It has been peaceful for most of it's existence. The ruling govt. even made promises with telangana that i'll be given statehood before the term ends but was always deceived so to speak. This is just a reaction. The cause was already there.
From the election point of view, it is clear that the parties (TDP and TRS) went with Telegana were lost. So there is no mandate from that angle.

Also, it doesn't matter how long it has been, the other party is presented with the choice now and they are speaking.
Current preference for majority people is "No Telengana"
ShyamSP wrote:Now they brought to situation the other side outright rejects it 100%.
It's a known fact. That is one of the reasons why referendums are not being accepted. They are sure to loose out on a decision based on consensus. So if centre is deceiving and the state asks for referendums then the only way they see is by force. I hope you understand what im saying here and wish you don't loose your marbles this time.
GOI will not go the route of referendum for the reasons that has nothing to do with AP.

Limiting scope to AP and assuming they go by referendum in AP, it is another can of worms. What happens if each district asks for separate state in the referendum or some cities want UT or some areas want to get out of India.

GOI simply can't take one sided decision no matter how not agreeable it is for Telengana vadis. If Telengana vadis want to play referendum politics, other side has option and can play similar politics
ShyamSP wrote:GOI can't do nothing until modalities are agreed by bot sides.
Absolutely dhimmified propaganda. You need to start reading those agreements between the two regions for once. Telangana has a legit right to ask for statehood by citing those flouted agreements that were made when it acceded with andhra. Formation of new states do not require assembly resolutions and that has been proven in the case of the formation of gujarat. KCR has even threatened to sue those people who propagate that false propaganda.
[/quote]

Those agreements were before Jai Telengana/Jai Andhra. During that time Telengana had option to quit but they were the proponents of United AP to suppress Jai Andhra.

They cannot ignore that event and go events/agreements before that. It is like ignoring Simla agreement to go agreements before that for Indo-Pak issues.

If Telengana vadis go to courts on those agreements, it is good thing because they can stay in courts for 20-30 years. If they cannot show factual neglect (remember courts won't agree to logic that "Claim Hyderabad for Telengana but ignore it for statistics), it is permanently sealing Telengana fate.


Given circumstances, GOI can't take decisions without people on both sides want to separate. I know constitution gives power to Parliament to create states. They could have done adhocly at the beginning, they can't take one-sided decisions after 50 years passed. They cannot give Telengana and leave other side in lurch.

If Telengana vadis stick to maximalist position, Telengana won't happen. They need to understand the other side and work with their demands too.
Last edited by ShyamSP on 01 Jan 2010 03:11, edited 2 times in total.
Satya_anveshi
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Satya_anveshi »

Muppalla wrote:Regarding Swaminathan Ayier article This was my reply

In summary Jharkhand or Chattisgargh did not emerge as any industrial dynamos as he is spinning but they are just as they are like in the past.
Anuj, Thanks for point to that article from Swami.

Muppala garu,

Pardon me if I really did not follow your logic.

You are saying those areas (3 new states in the article) grew because they had better places ("lakshmi" so to say).

Folks in Telangana are asking them to leave alone and rest of AP can take all the other "riches." It is quite clear that rest of AP is much better off than Telangana.

This should be in the interest of rest of AP and Telangana will chalk out its own course. Now, what is the "takleeeeeef" here using the same jargon that has been used for Telanganas?

Did I follow your logic properly?

Boy, the more we learn about this the more it gets interesting. I have no idea why people are unable to overcome the power of intertia.
Muppalla
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Muppalla »

Satya_anveshi garu,

You totally got me wrong there. In simple words, I am saying that among the smaller states Jharkhand is a failed state inspite of being rich in minerals. I just gave the info related to seperatism of Jharkhand.

Regarding Uttharanchal/Chattisgargh also same, its economy/progress did not change any significantly. They are same as before. In case of Chattisgargh, Maosit menace had increased a lot and may be if it is united with MP it would have got all the help from a bigger state in terms of police etc.

My message is very simple - Smaller states progress well economically is just a spin even taking the data from smaller states that are formed. First the results are not that great and second there is no good data of those three regions before split. My gripe is the writers who are supporting smaller states based on economic progress is all spin. TWIW
Satya_anveshi
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Satya_anveshi »

It helps to recollect this post of mine. Counter arguments generally are falling into these broad categories. But the more learned people debate this further, the new knowledge we are ganing.
Satya_anveshi wrote:I think so far I have gathered the following four/five arguments against the separation which are completely different from those of the issues relating to Telangana

- Share in prosperity of Hyd Of course there will be some impact in the immediate, short term, and long term. I believe this is the most important element argued by the united AP folks. They are the major beneficiaries of the growth which they believe will stop with Telangana formation.

- Maoist Telangana has been a known field for Maoist but currently there are hardly any elements in Telangana. Contrarily, they are more concentrated in coastal andhra districts of vijayanagaram/Srikakulum and even Prakasam etc.
Even otherwise, this is a center/state matter which has no bearing on Telangana

- Impact of minority influence Actually, for Telangana there will only be a shift from one minority community to the other. This issue needs to be carefully managed but should not be allowed to hold the whole state formation hostage to it.

- Ego issues? I think a lot of people actually believe that how can Telanganas will rule themselves. It has always been the good old coastal andhra/rayalaseema babu bestowing goods.

and lastly

Status quo..Status quo..Status quo.. Why change when all is hunky dory (for whom)?? Why disturb lest we screw-up even further (can be go lower than we are?)? Is this change motivated/engineered by external forces? If so, lets not play into their hands. But the problem is no one knows why would an external force engineer this they can't even be sure of the benefits.

Whereas the Telangans have a much more moral, legit grievances that affect their livelihood.
Satya_anveshi
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Satya_anveshi »

I will be away from the forum; need to lend a hand to my SHQ for the New Year party preparation...else you guys can imagine how my 2010 is going to be. :(( Will be back later. Andariki maa tarapuna nutanavarsha subhakankshamulu...may Lord Venkateshwara give sadbuddhi to our politicians in doing good for the people of our state(s).
Last edited by Satya_anveshi on 01 Jan 2010 03:00, edited 1 time in total.
RamaY
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Re: States News and Discussions

Post by RamaY »

The other thread is locked. So posting here.

Often the case for small state is made on the basis of:

Real/Perceived exploitation of local resources by strong political groups (like in Telangana case): This scenario assumes that local political leaders will be forced to develop their political constituencies. This assumption may not turn real, given the modern economic systems where the wealthy invest their money based on ROE instead of their affiliation to a specific region. If this assumption was right, all Andhra and Rayalaseema politicians and wealthy should have put their money near their birth place instead of Hyderabad. There are many political/industrial bigwigs from Andhra who have more than 50% their wealth invested outside AP, in Bangalore, Chennai, Mumbai, Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong etc.

Claims over natural resources such as River Systems, Minerals, and Forests: This scenario assumes that the local population “owns” the natural resource instead of treating it as national wealth. While it is required to allocate major percentage of mine-leases and forest-leases to locals, rest of the nation cannot be deprived of these natural resources. This adds unnecessary economic overheads in harvesting and harnessing these natural resources for the betterment of national growth.
More over, not all industries require their mineral inputs in close proximity. I do not know if there are any iron ore deposits near Vishakhapatnam. So creation of new states may not automatically bring additional industries and employment opportunities.
There is another dimension to it. Imagine a small state with large mineral deposits invites large national/multinational industries. Most of large multi-nationals have annual revenues higher than the state-GDPs. The state leadership might get hijacked/dominated by these industrial groups. The state progress/vision will be determined by a single or small group of industrialists because each of them can influence tens of thousands of families and their echo-systems. The side effect of this could end the democratic systems as we know.
Gerard
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Gerard »

moderation note

Thread cleanup.

Please keep the discussion civil. Avoid personal attacks, name calling and use of abusive terms like 'paki'. This is the second time I have had to ask this and the second time for the day I've had to lock the thread for cleanup.

Thank you for your cooperation
Muppalla
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Muppalla »

Gerard,
I guess you accidentally removed my post which has no such relation. That's ok.
RameshVarma
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by RameshVarma »

With respect to post where Anuj talks about 108 ways the telanaganites were screwed over by Andhraites.

i) Water Issue....

Telanagana has more catchment area but the amount of water it receives is less than Andhra. (But the point conveniently ignored is the amount of Water being wasted into Bay of Bengal, from both Godavari and Krishna). So the point of ANdhra stealing all the water, if I may say is nothing but moot.

http://jabilli.wordpress.com/ (Here in this blog the author tries to disprove some of the claims made by the Telanaganites, with data were ever possible)

Regarding the amount of cultivable land, one has to take into consideration the irrigation cost too when the projects are to be implemented. The irrigation cost per acre for Lift irrigation scheme that are proposed for T region will be too high.

And another reason for low cultivable land can be attributed to the crops that are being grown in T region. The people in Telanagana has shifted to Paddy cultivation, which is water intensive crop, from 1981 onwards (because of gov. policies) instead of dry crops like cereals. Which resulted in the reduction of underground water tables. ( http://planningcommission.nic.in/report ... ttrnAP.pdf )
Yet nobody even questions the cultivation of Paddy in the region.

ii )Regarding Educational institutes and Employment opportunities

I am appalled by logic shown in those points, they have simply picked up the data the fits them and ignored the rest.
Here when showing number of educational institutes they have conveniently ignored Hyderabad region but when it comes to revenue and
sales tax generation Hyderabad is included. [never ever they talk about NIT, IIIT, ISB or acclaimed research institutes like CCMB, NIN.]

When presenting the Number of IAS/ IPS from each region (or number of employers in the region).

A better statistics would have been number of candidates who appeared for the exams ,the number that were selected from each region for Interview[after written exam] and number of candidates from each region that were selected after the interview.

As IAS/IPS (or any post for that matter) post have to be filled up on Merit rather than ..........

The telanganites also conveniently ignore the number of jobs generated by the business of Andhra people in Telangana region.

Which brings us to next category of claims made by T.

iii )Garbing all the business of Telangana region

If one reads up the claims made in Anujs post (if they are true). Then it can be affirmatively said that Seemandhra people made a huge contribution in the development of Hyderabad.(So if partition occurs then revenues of Hyderabad has to be shard between Seemandhra and Telangana )

Now coming to Andhraites possessing 65% of the business in Hyderabad. I am unable to understand the logic behind Telanganites anger on this issue. In fact its good sign that andhraites are establishing industries in Telangana, which will directly and indirectly result in the development and generation of Employment for Telangana region.

Now if the logic of T.'s is to be followed than all the foreign companies investing in India should be kicked out.

and I feel some of the other points are not even worth mentioning.
Last edited by RameshVarma on 01 Jan 2010 09:03, edited 2 times in total.
Muppalla
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Muppalla »

Instead of emotions if someone from Telangana gives a logical refutation to the points here http://jabilli.wordpress.com/ would be good. I think a lot of it is right.

The whole takleef about some areas of Krishna and Godavari districts having three crops an year as some conspiracy against Telangana is pure drivel and jealosy (not blaming anyone on this forum and just the writers). Diviseema (Krishna) and Konaseema (Godavari) are almost like islands inside the rivers. They used to die of floods and cyclones. They would love if someone stops these rivers from getting that much of water if possible :) Konaseema is better off as compared to Diviseema becasue they are not that close to sea. In Diviseema areas it is exactly at the place where Krishna river meets the sea. Did anyone know villages like Bhavadevarapalli? In 1977 everyone were wipedout and I was a very small kid and my we went to see if our relatives are alive. On the way, I have for the first time seen (my mom was closing my eyes) what is human death and the stinking corpses were everywhere.

Both the seemas are extremely beautiful. It is okay to be jealous of beauty :)

Yes they are rich in terms of agricultural output even though the infrastructure is poor. You can't help that as that is just nature. Using that as a point for discrimination is just ridiculous. Be happy and thank God that somewhere in India there are prosperous areas otherwise our country would be a big Somalia.

Regarding Godavari river, it is such a mighty river and try stopping it at the heights of Telangana. It would be nice and no one downstream will even object. A lot of water still goes into sea. There is a huge misconception that the water resources management projects(not Nagarjunasagar) here is for stealing water. Most of the infrastucture was to save the crops and humans from drowning every year.

----------------------------
One more thing that comes to mind here that I guess there was a rule passed that you cannot convert water-fed agricultural land for real estate and industries after 1980s. This also resulted in a lot of Krishna and Godavari districts not getting industries. Most of the industries are in barren areas around Vizag or Hyderabad.

Whether per plan or not, I don't know most of industrialization is happening in barren lands (unfortunately it was all Hyderabad) and the water-fed areas are left for food production. Whoever was at the right location at the right time made money and discrimination is only in the minds and I am not convinced that something was done deliberately.

The planners thought that bad-phase was over in 1969 and they never thought that 2009 will come. Otherwise they would have done few more Hyderabads as a backup in other areas of AP.

Phylosophically AP is again going thru sade-sati and a lot of acquired prosperty will be lost in this in-house battle. Keeping this in the back of my mind I will still go to friend's house to hangout for the new year.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Umrao Das »

It is a disgrace to bring up Jalianwallhbag into T agitation

More should be shot if found destroying Public property be in in AP or Karnataka maharashtra or N (anywhere in India).

Anuj needs re education.

By his standard Gandhiji is the biggest Criminal of the World for he was jailed many times.

Sure education will help.
milindc
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by milindc »

Satya_anveshi wrote:
Muppalla wrote:Regarding Swaminathan Ayier article This was my reply

In summary Jharkhand or Chattisgargh did not emerge as any industrial dynamos as he is spinning but they are just as they are like in the past.
Anuj, Thanks for point to that article from Swami.

Muppala garu,

Pardon me if I really did not follow your logic.

You are saying those areas (3 new states in the article) grew because they had better places ("lakshmi" so to say).

Folks in Telangana are asking them to leave alone and rest of AP can take all the other "riches." It is quite clear that rest of AP is much better off than Telangana.

This should be in the interest of rest of AP and Telangana will chalk out its own course. Now, what is the "takleeeeeef" here using the same jargon that has been used for Telanganas?

Did I follow your logic properly?

Boy, the more we learn about this the more it gets interesting. I have no idea why people are unable to overcome the power of intertia.
I think by the same logic leave Hyderabad alone. Let Greater Hyderabad be a state or UT. The Telangana districts can take their own course.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by anuj »

ShyamSP wrote:From the election point of view, it is clear that the parties (TDP and TRS) went with Telegana were lost. So there is no mandate from that angle.
What do you mean by lost? Telangana was the bait. A false assurance. Every party assured they'll be part of the movement but no one thought the centre would actually agree to it due to the imbalanced power grid in the state. So now when the centre HAS given it's nod, those parties who made those false promises are running in circles, no idea what to do, forced to make a choice. Those parties from non-telangana have backed out and shown there true colours. weeded out. There future in telangana will probably be non-existent from here on.
ShyamSP wrote:Current preference for majority people is "No Telengana"
This is one of the points made by telangana for separation. There is no chance for it to win. It is outdone by democracy by 2-1. While telangana wants out, jai andhra movement tries to pacify there voices as if it is the voice of the majority. But in reality, telangana has been kept in chains all the while. If it tries to break the shackles, democracy subdues it.
ShyamSP wrote:it is another can of worms.
I know. Why do you think rayalaseema has joined hands with andhra to gang up on telangana?
ShyamSP wrote:GOI simply can't take one sided decision no matter how not agreeable it is for Telengana vadis.
Firstly, It has been done before - the maharashtra > gujarat case.

Telangana was never a part of AP. It was forced to accede with andhra in a shot gun marriage. It already chose to walk out of the marriage decades ago and still does. Only the centre is left to sign the papers. Though they want to do this without angering the AP congress. The only case left for andhra to fight for is the share in hyd. Everything else is irrelevant and not necessary. Waste of time. You keep forgetting who holds the baton.
ShyamSP wrote:They cannot ignore that event and go events/agreements before that.
You are right. This is the new age. TV's and camera's. 370 died in 1969. During this age and time, any sort of suppression will only make the telangana movement even stronger. And actually, that is how i imagine the separation will be. Andhra will do it's own undoing. If they don't know when to let go yet, they will never know.
ShyamSP wrote:If Telengana vadis go to courts ...
You have no idea what's going on. The centre just played you. They took you in. They made you there subordinates. They became your masters. What are you going to do?

If you had been a part of the BJP, they'd have no authority over you. But your not. Your part of them and you live under there rules. Your little games stand no chance against there great games.
Last edited by anuj on 01 Jan 2010 14:10, edited 2 times in total.
anuj
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by anuj »

@everyone
Yet another time im saying this. The user "anuj" is not the subject of discussion. What "anuj" thinks about the mahatma is irrelevant to this thread. "anuj" is not taking any recommendations for being re-educated. Your infatuation with the user "anuj" is appreciated, fascinating and very bizarre. "anuj" requests everyone to stop calling him and telangana's as "inferior", it has no meaning and only used by tall, fair and handsome hypocrites to describe something but nor they or anyone else has any clue what it means. It will also be appreciated if opinions like telangana people should be shot in public are not used. The british have long gone. Keep it civil. Keep it non-desi.

Rgds,
anuj
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by TKiran »

Satya_anveshi wrote:
vijayk wrote:Satya! Let me come come up with an analogy based on your logic!
No that is a pathetic attempt to misinterpret my argument. I am saying I have no knowledge as of now as to what the girl did.

It is one thing if she got raped while living her own life (provocative or not) but it is entirely different if she was lying naked in a major unstable area and shouting/challenging anyone if anyone has guts to rape her. In a society like India, there may be many who may accept her challenge and satisfy her.

You need to review your analogy.
This has been the best logic of Telangana Vaadi's so far. :rotfl:

In fact I remember in one of the films, Vijayashanthi challenges Mohanbabu to rape her in front of everyone, and Chiranjeevi comes and saves her. The characters are all mixed up though.
anuj
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by anuj »

TKiran wrote:This has been the best logic of Telangana Vaadi's so far. :rotfl:
Do you have something to argue about or are these squabbles all you got?
You want to provoke people, this is not the place or the forum. You have nothing to offer. Get lost.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by TKiran »

anuj wrote:
TKiran wrote:This has been the best logic of Telangana Vaadi's so far. :rotfl:
Do you have something to argue about or are these squabbles all you got?
You want to provoke people, this is not the place or the forum. You have nothing to offer. Get lost.
Yes, I have something to argue, it is about the style of argument of Telanganavaadi's and the Analogy given by Vijayk was excellent, but the counter argument was too funny. That was the point.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by RameshVarma »

....OT alert...

Here is somethning interesting that happened in the Hyderabad Old City.Some Telangana Supporters were made to taste their own medicine

BJP telanagana supporters in the old city were trying to forcefully enforce bandh in old city of Hyderabad. They were forcing Shop Keepers to shut down their business, which resulted in stand-off between Telanagana Supporters and shop keepers. Unfortunately for protesters the shopkeepers were in mood to listen and protesters had to flee the area.Its one of those cases where police had to come to rescue of the Protestors (As they say in Hyderabad "Eay Bhaaga Bhaaga kara Mara" ) :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXPPWP1Vjs0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8CWczWI2a
anuj
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by anuj »

This is another Swaminathan aiyar article published today in ET. Drumrolls...

India to overtake China in 2020

8 prophecies in the article mentioned in snippets
1) China ages, Young india takes over. GDP growth to 10% by 2020, while China's growth will dip to 7-8%.

2) India will become the largest English-speaking nation in the world, overtaking the US. Rupert Murdoch's heirs will sell his collapsing media empire to Indian buyers. The New York Times will become a subsidiary of an Indian publishing giant.

3) Gained entry into the nuclear club, By 2020, Indian companies will be major exporters of nuclear equipment to the world. So, India will be in a position to impose nuclear sanctions on others.

4) India to substitute gas for coal in power generation, hugely reducing carbon emissions and making Jairam Ramesh look saintly.

5) India will discover enormous deposits of shale gas in its vast shale formations in Gangetic plain, Assam, Rajasthan and Gujarat. India will become a major gas producer and exporter. Iran's mullahs will be overthrown, there rapid economic growth will create shortage of gas. So, the Iran-India pipeline will be recast, but in reverse form: India will now export gas to Iran.

6) More and more regions of India will demand separate statehood. By 2020, India will have 50 states instead of the current 28. The new states will not exactly be small. With 50 states and a population of almost 1.5 billion, India will average 30 million people per state, far higher than the current US average of 6 million per state.

7) China will threaten to divert the waters of the Brahmaputra from Tibet to water-scarce northern China. India will threaten to bomb any such project. The issue will go to the Security Council.

8.) Islamic fundamentalists will take over in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The US will withdraw from the region, leaving India to bear the brunt of consequences. Terrorism will rise in India, but the economy will still keep growing. How so? Well, 3000 people die every year falling off Mumbai's suburban trains, and that does not stop Mumbai's growth. Terrorism will bruise India, but not halt its growth.
Yagnasri
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Yagnasri »

Some how my posts here are vanished. Anuj says that that Telangana was never a party of andra. We wish to know what he means by never ?? Was there any kingdom called Telangana before and it is not part of another kingdom called andhra ???

Telangana people were kept as slaves Come on with 119 MLAs in 294 assembly how they can be kept as slaves. Now they have some 13 ministers Let those ministers tell what they have done for the state and their areas since last elections ??? For example since 2001 Home minister is from Telangana Can he/she tell what she has done to improve law and order situation in the state.

First you are not doing your job now but you want a new company to destroy ???
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Rahul Mehta »

Re :recent violence in AP

In India, egalitarian articulate learned and intelligent people, most of whom have 4 digit IQ, opposed referendum procedures.

Only 2 bit rustics like myself whose IQ is about 102-107 demanded, supported referendum procedures. We rustics believed that if people are not allowed to express their wills, chances are high that this suppression will make them follow some violent person like KCR , Naxals etc. But as always, people with 4 digit IQ prevailed over us people with IQ= 107, and referendum procedures were never allowed

If we had referendum procedures, Telanganites would gone for referendum and not rioting.

But we dont have referendum procedures.

So enjoy the 24*7 light and sound show in Hyderabad.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by anuj »

The devil inside... all.

Demand for bifurcation of TN absurd: Chidambaram
Chennai, Jan 1 (PTI) Union Home Minister P Chidambaram today dismissed as "meaningless and absurd" demand for bifurcation of Tamil Nadu, saying the idea should be nipped in the bud.

"It is a meaningless and absurd idea. It should be nipped in the bud," he said, reacting to PMK leader S Ramadoss' remarks about splitting Tamil Nadu into two states.

Chidambaram was talking to reporters after meeting Chief Minister M Karunanidhi here.

Ramadoss had recently said bifurcation of Tamil Nadu would be "good" on administrative grounds, apparently buoyed by the Centre's nod for the creation of Telangana.

Karunanidhi had, however, dismissed the idea, saying there was "no place for such concepts." AIADMK leader Jayalalithaa too had opposed the bifurcation idea.

The chief minister had also attributed the present turmoil in neighbouring Andhra Pradesh over the Telangana issue to "a delayed decision and hasty announcement" by the Centre.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by a_kumar »

anuj wrote: Telangana was never a part of AP.
AP was never part of Republic of India before 1947, any guesses why?
Satya_anveshi wrote:I am not condoning vandalism. However, Is this the first time we are seeing such type of vandalism? Is it that uncommon in India?

For far meaner issues haven't we see massive bloodbath in vijaywada? Whatever happened when Peratala ravi got killed? What happened in Bangalore when Raj kumar died? What happened during Belgaum dispute between KS/MS? What happened in Chennai during the LTTE showdown?

While it is regrettable to say the least why isolate this incident.
In a different context, on a different day, on a different topic, all of us would in one voice express frustration at such acts and drop chiches like "how things are same in India" and "We are like this only" etc. Infact, I am sure some of us from both sides said that out loud on few of above occasions..

As we are seeing now, things are not the same when we (yes, even the uber-jingos of BRF) end up in one of the sides. Everything becomes fair game and "Ends justify the means". That is just sad and I guess "we will be like this only".

General question for residents : I am a little removed from local press and going by the exchange on this forum it looks a little asymmetric. I am wondering, given the way things are with mob mentality, I would assume there should be similar response (violence and threats of violence) from United AP folks as well. Whats going on?
anuj wrote:KCR has somehow emerged as the HERO for delivering the statehood of telangana. The new state under his party will be a nightmare. Though it is probably what will happen. They are mere local politicians and the only purpose of there existence is the formation of telangana. They have no understanding of economics. There only contribution to the region can be a few roads and bridges - infrastructure stuff. He is obviously not like the charismatic narendra modi. Not even a lallu who at least has some understanding of commerce.
Do I see a convergence here? You have so succinctly summarized why this is the wrong cure.

I am not against separation per se. But what I am worried about is that people are fighting street wars just so that more greedy mouths of politicos/bureaucrats can be fed. This whole movement provides little to no tangible improvement to common man, because, the malaise is still untreated.

Forget 20-30 year earlier. In this new age of media presence,
-What if T-vadis spent a fraction of this rage on these 40% of the MLAs and ministers that belong to Telangana?
-What if T-vadis went on hunger strike to make these 40% of MLAs respond with concrete proposals?
-what if T-vadis started a media campaign to show that MLAs have not delivered and publish progress reports?

Are they all impossible? If atleast some steps were taken and there was no improvement (meaning Telangana MLAs' tried all they could, but their hands were tied down), then T-vadis would have my support as well as support of several others.

Do you know why none of that happens? Because I haven't seen any activists on ground until month ago, besides radical elements. The only T-Vadis there are now, are pawns of KCR and these very 40% MLAs. Its insane how "top-down" it is and how T-vadis dancing to the tune of KCR looks like. The new realization in T-vadis and supposed conversion of neutral telanganites into T-vadis in last month is a classic case of X using Y.
anuj wrote: My only hope is that the region gets indirectly controlled(or advised) by one of the two major parties under the UPA or the NDA banner.
Are you saying you are helpless to make the the future Govt. deliver development or provide better governance? Are you just praying and hoping for some outside power center to protect your interests. Beats me why they would want to do that if the Tiger of Telangana won't?

T-vadis need to make up their mind on the end-game.

-If its Telangana then this movement may achieve it.
-If its development/governance, then this movement is moot, because there is no accountability.

Who will fight for development/governance tomorrow? Common man/Intellectuals didn't have time until last month and they won't have time once Telangana is created either. And here is a secret that you already know...... there will be no KCR fasting for any development in Telanagana!!
ShyamSP wrote:Telenagana if they had approached peacefully and without hate would have been achieved. Now they brought to situation the other side outright rejects it 100%. Attacks on people and properties hardened non-Telenganas against splitting the state. Rayalaseema people were intially asking for Seperate Rayalaseema, they no longer go by that stand but go by United AP stand.
I guess T-vadis are saying the same thing. If the statehood was given without any fuss, then they would be all nice to Seema/Costa folks. Faced with protests by Seema/Costa folks, I guess even those who were neutral have turned staunchly supportive of the cause.
Venkarl
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Venkarl »

Brothers..all this fight may be tip of an ice berg...if nothing happens on Jan 5th...there will not only be an another wave of public property destruction but this time it would for sure intensify Telanganite Vs Andhraite and bring bad blood to a higher and violent levels...with a pinch of misguidance from political parties with vested interests may orchestrate the extremists(from both sides) to do few things like kidnap..arson..murder etc...which is not good for a common man staying in Hyderabad or border towns between Telangana and Seemandhra districts even in a Unified A.P....So as time goes by..if we observe any kind of trend like this....I would prefer bifurcation of the state with out elevating the current situation to next episode of destruction....according to me..unification or bifurcation of the state should certainly not end in bad blood like hutu and tutsi....and let the development be upto elected representatives from bifurcated regions....

while those are my honest opinions...I do not understand one thing...

how a separate telangana will wet the heart lands of telangana leaving out the few lower regions in Karim Nagar, Mahboob Nagar etc??

As the rivers will have to flow upstream atleast to the height of 500 meters...anybody with sane thoughts please enlighten me...[added later]...will lift irrigation help even at 500 to 600 meters height....found a case study but thats again in costa where the height is between 150m to 300 meters...can this be implemented in telangana too??? if implemented at what cost per acre? ....and how long will it take to finish?? any knowledgeable ones plzz address this question..... any civil servants??? :D

http://www.liftirrigation.org/html/case_study.html

[/added later]

just a rough idea of how it looks
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8983/29374161.png

One more thing that bugs me is

Andhra wants first use of K-G basin gas
AS Reliance Industries gets ready to market gas from its D6 block in the Krishna-Godavari basin, the Andhra Pradesh government has begun asserting its rights of first use. Andhra Pradesh Chief Minister YSR Reddy has written to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, saying that gas from the K-G basin should be first given to the state for meeting its requirements in power generation, CNG, domestic gas and other industrial purposes
So if bifurcation happens, in accordance to above condition, the Seemandhra folks might block pipeline to Hyd in future to provide natural gas to its new cities..like Vizag, Tirupati, Kurnool, Cudappah, Nellore, Guntur..etc while Kakinada and Vijayawada are already on the list to get...in case a strong CM emerges from Seemandhra region??

or will Center's will prevails?
Last edited by Venkarl on 01 Jan 2010 22:45, edited 2 times in total.
anuj
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by anuj »

@a_kumar
Very good post.
-If its Telangana then this movement may achieve it.
-If its development/governance, then this movement is moot, because there is no accountability.
These two sentences have rightly put it. Part of the blame should clearly go to telangana's politicians. I have already said there only purpose is to achieve telangana.

But you have to start with something. A place. A time. Telangana's politicians are incompetent, no doubt. Taking this incompetency as an advantage and discriminating the region is no doubt either. As you can see, i have even wished for an outside power to lead telangana. The people of telangana are fighting for one thing at a time. The first thing in the list is a separate statehood.

You need to wonder why people have ignored everything else and stick-ed to that one demand - telangana. It's not psy-ops. It's a combination of a lot of things. Legit grievances.

There are more things to do after the separation. Again i hope, one of two parties take control because under KCR, ain't expecting much to happen.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by ramana »

Almost a month into the crisis, we should summarize the various factors in play at this time.

To me it looks like its an inside INC problem.

From scuttlebutt, if Telangana forms the largest beneficiary would be CBN.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Venkarl »

I am pasting a discussion I came across on another forum which might be food for our thoughts(my opinion onlee)
Excellent post I must say...son of a gun might have some administration experience....

LINK



1.) There are 10 districts in Telangana, 9 in Andhra and 4 in Rayalaseema. Out of these 7 districts in Telangana, 3 in Andhra and 1 in Rayalaseema are considered severely backward districts which means 70% of districts in Telangana are backward while in Andhra it is 35% and in Rayalaseema it is 25%. Apart from these there are some areas in all parts of the state which are also backward.
________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________
Ans:
List of districts in Telangana – Adilabad, Karimnagar, Nizamabad, Warangal,Khammam, Medak, Rangareddy,Nalgonda, Mahabubnagar, Hyderabad. Out of these, Karimnagar, Nizamabad, Medak, Khammam, Hyderabad, Rangareddy cannot be categorized as backward districts.
List of districts in Rayalaseema – Kurnool, Kadapa, Ananthapur, Chittoor. Of these Ananthapur, Kadapa and some parts of Chittoor are backward, with Ananthapur being the worst-hit district of whole AP.
List of districts in Coastal Andhra – Nellore, Prakasam, Guntur, Krishna, West Godavari, East Godavari, Visakhapatnam, Vijayanagaram, Srikakulam. Of these, Srikakulam, Vijayanagaram, Visakhapatnam (other than Vizag City), Prakasam, Western parts of Krishna, Guntur (Palnadu area), Godavari (Manyam area) districts are considered backward (compared to the non-backward areas of Telangana).
Clearly, the above statement is more of a prejudiced opinion than a fact.
2)
45% of the state income comes from Telangana region. When it comes to utilization of funds, the share of Telangana is only 28%.
________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________
Ans:
As was pointed out by some members here, the income from hyderabad and rangareddy districts forms a major share of this income. This income
mostly comes from the sectors of Real Estate, Manufacturing, Infrastructure and IT industries. Not to instigate any regional feelings here, but it is worth noting that many of these companies (excluding IT sector to some extent) are owned by non-Telanganites.
3)
Normally canals are dug to supply water to the crops from rivers for cultivation. The amount of land cultivated through canals in just Guntur district is more than the land cultivated with canals in entire Telangana region.
________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________
Ans:
Not true. Guntur district irrigated area is 6,78,197 acres (http://irrigation.cgg.gov.in/dp/GunturD ... rofile.jsp). Karimnagar district irrigated area is 6,47,402 acres (http://irrigation.cgg.gov.in/dp/Karimna ... rofile.jsp. Note that 1 Hectare = 2.471 acres).
4)
Nagarjuna sagar dam is built in Nalgonda district which is in Telangana but majority of the water from the dam is used for Krishna and Guntur district. The original dam was supposed to be build much ahead of its present location but the location was changed so that it falls in the
Telangana region. Due to the construction of the dam several hectares of Lime stone mines vanished as part of the dam back waters. Everyone know that lime stone is used for producing cement. Even the natural resources were not allowed to remain.
________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________
Ans:
A bit of a history here – Nagarjuna Sagarproject was originally conceived by the British, around 1903, with Siddeswaram and Pulichintala as possible balancing reservoir sites. Unfortunately, these proposals did not materialize. Floods in Krishna river used to devastate Krishna district, while Guntur and Nalgonda were drought prone. As part of the first five-year plan, Nehru Govt. appointed Khosla committee to examine and report on the optimum and most beneficial utilization of Krishna River waters. The recommendations of the Committee, which were later endorsed by the Planning Commission in December, 1952, are to construct Nandikonda Dam across Krishna River with full reservoir level at +590.00 feet with canals taking off on either side. Water allocated to the Project is 281 TMC. The foundation stone of the Dam was laid by the late Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, the first Prime Minister of India on 10.12.1955. (It is worth noting here that Andhra Pradesh state was formed in 1956, after the dam foundation was laid. It is outrageous to spread the idea that there’s a conspiracy by the Andhrites in shifting the location of the site, when the state itself was not in existence.)
Another piece of interesting information on the background of Nagarjuna Sagar – http://en.wikipedia....a#Achievements.
“Raja spent fifty two lakhs of rupees (in 1950s) as a matching grant for the project construction”. What is the investment of Telangana in this project, while reaping the benefits of the project and yet promoting the idea that injustice was done ?
Regarding Limestone quarries, there are enough limestone reserves to support a host of cement industries.For more info – http://en.wikipedia....iahpet#Economy.
Statements that non-telangana regions conspired against Telangana people are false theories spread by people with vested interests.
5)
Fluorinated water problem is only in Nalgonda district which has not been resolved since decades.
________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________
Ans:
This is not a problem specific to Nalgonda district and the statement that no efforts have been made to resolve this issue is not true. This problem existed in many other districts as well (Adilabad, Anantpur, Chittoor, Guntur, Hyderabad, Karimnagar, Khammam, Krishna, Kurnool, Mahabubnagar, Medak, Nalgonda, Nellore, Prakasam, Ranga Reddy, Visakhapatnam, Vizianagaram, Warangal, West Godavari). For more info – http://cgwb.gov.in/g...iles/st_ap.htm.
The state has initiated (RWS) schemes to resolve this problem. While the majority of drinking water works for Ananthapur district was sponsored by the Satyasai Organization http://www.srisathya.../Anantapur.htm), the state has sponsored the schemes in Telangana districts. Anyone could see the injustice being done to Rayalaseema here, in favor of Telangana. Yet, the hate speeches organized by Telangana theorists twist this “fact”.
Another piece of info that I know firsthand here – The RWS scheme was first proposed in Nizamabad district by the then Chief Engineer Mr U.Kutumba Rao (incidentally, he’s from the Andhra Region’s Krishna district) and he made sure that the funds were released by the then TDP govt (thanks to Late Sri Karanam Ramachandra Rao, Minister of TDP Govt). No Telangana Politician thought about this for decades together and yet they somehow attribute this problem to Telangana discrimination !!!
Reg. the Nalgonda district, efforts to supply krishna water to the affected districts is almost nearing completion (thanks to the proposal by TDP Govt and Implementation by the Congress Govt.)
DECEMBER 24, 2009 10:39 PM
6)
Two major rivers Krishna and Tungabhadra enter the state of AP in the district of Mahaboobnagar (the biggest district in Telangana) but the district always remains the worst draught hit areas along with Anantapur because there is no project and process with which the water can be utilized. The plans for utilization has been pending for decades.
________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________
Ans:
To put things in perspective, we need to look at the background of the drought conditions. Agriculture in this district has been primarily done by borewells since long back and indiscriminate increase of this usage, over decades, led to depletion of ground water levels. The contours and the percentage of arable land in this district doesn’t help either (Anantapur fares much worse in that the forest cover is only 5%, whereas Mahabubnagar has a forest cover of 16%). The eastern part is upland/hilly and the majority of the soil is Red Chalka type. This district is mostly a catchment area for the rivers, which means this is not really plain land. Govts over the years have tried to implement various measures such as watershed projects (through Desert Development Programmes, Drought Prone Region Development Programmes etc), Small check dams and drip irrigation schemes. The efforts of the Govts led to an increase in ground water level and rejuvenation of around 31000 borewells.
This is not to say that the Govts have done enough. Much more needs to be done here, which has not been done so far.
Currently, Nettempadu Lift Irrigation Project, Kalwakurthy Lift Irrigation Project and Rajiv Lift Irrigation Projects are being implemented and upon their completion, this district will hopefully be no more categorized as drought-prone.
7)
In Telangana regions, only few areas cultivate one crop a year and very rarely two crops a year while most of the land doesn’t even cultivate
single crop. In both the Godavari districts, Krishna and Guntur district, two crops a year is common and there are times where even 3 crops a year are cultivated. The only reason is WATER.
________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________
Ans:
Not all regions of Godavari/Krishna/Guntur cultivated three crops a year. And this is not the reality anymore, particularly for Krishna river basin. The water for second crop itself is not guaranteed anymore (Pulichintala is the solution for this).
8)
33% of the population in Mahaboobnagar district have left the district for livelihood to different parts of the state due to draught and majority of them are working as daily labour. No other district has so many people who fled the home place due to lack of livelihood and working as daily labour.
________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________
Ans:
This is not a problem unique to Mahabubnagar. Srikakulam and Vizianagaram districts have the same problem. The problem in Mahabubnagar district is conveniently projected as a Telangana issue.
9)
Dairy development corporation of AP purchases milk from farmers across the state for distribution. For the same milk, in Andhra, the government pay Rs. 24 to the farmers and in Telangana they pay Rs. 22 per litre. Partiality is shown even in milk
________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________
Ans:
Milk procurement price is dependent on various quality parameters, one of them being the fat content. For eg., Mahabubnagar district in the 90s produced milk with low fat content (reasons ranged from feeding practices and quality cattle, to diluting milk with water). The then Govt installed Technical Assistance Services to implement bank credits for procuring quality cattle, cattle insurance, cattle vaccinations, Milk testing centers etc. This led to increase in Milk production, Fat content (from 6% to 7.3%) and an increase of profits for Milk producers (in Wanaparthy segment alone, there was an increase of 40laks in profit, in 3 years). The point to be noted here is that there’s no discrimination done here, as projected by the statement above.
In fact, the AP dairy federation’s Milk Procurement Price ranges from Rs.25.50 to Rs. 28.00/Ltr for Buffalo milk and Rs. 11.91 to Rs. 12.53/Ltr for Cow milk.
10)
In between 2005-2008 government sold lands worth Rs. 20000 crores in and around Hyderabad which was utilized to build projects in Rayalaseema and Andhra.
________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________
Ans:
Properties were sold not just in Hyderabad. This happened in Vijayawada and Vizag as well to some extent. The figure of 20000 crores itself is highly debatable. Added to that, the Govt has spent (and has been spending) on the following Telangana projects -
1. Alisagar Lift Irrigation Project
2. J. Chokka Rao Project (Phase I and II)
3. Gutpa Lift Irrigation Project
4. Alimineti Madhava Reddy Project
5. Sriram Sagar Project (Phase I and II) and the flood canal
6. Bhima Lift Irrigation project
7. Sripada Rao Lift Irrigation project
8. Dummugudem project
9. Kalwakurthi Lift Irrigation Project
10. Nettempadu Lift Irrigation Project
11. Lendi Project
12. Suddavagu, Peddavagu, Palemvagu, Gollavagu, Ralivagu, Mathadivagu, Modikuntavagu and Gundlavagu projects
13. Komuram Bheem Project
14. Koilsagar Lift Irrigation Scheme
15. Kinnerasani Project
16. Ichampally Project (Govt has been trying to resolve longstanding interstate issues and is trying to get national project status for this. It is worth noting that no Telangana leader/intellectual has tried to get these issues
resolved or lobbied for the national status and yet non-telangana regions are somehow blamed for non-implementation of this project.)
It should also be noted that many of these projects are lift-based. This is due to the topography of the Telangana region (Deccan Plateau). The power ‘consumption’ for operating/maintaining these projects are enormous. For eg. the Nettempadu, Kalwakurty and Devadula projects require 1200MW of power. On the other hand, the Pulichintala project will add 120MW and Polavaram project will add 960 MW of power ‘production’.
11)
Not even a single project was completed in Telangana in the last 5 years while several projects were completed in Andhra and Rayalaseema.
________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________
Ans:
Another baseless statement. The following projects in Telangana regions have become operational in the last 5 years -
1. Devadula Lift Irrigation Project (Phase I) (benefits 60,000 acres) became operational in March, 2008.
2. Alisagar Lift Irrigation Project (benefits 54,000 acres) became operational in November, 2007.
3. A. Madhava Reddy Project(Phase I) (benefits 50,000 acres) became operational in September, 2006.
Compared to this, the following projects became operational in Andhra/Rayalaseema region -
1. Pushkara Lift Irrigation in East Godavari district (mostly to the non-irrigated North and Westerm parts of the district). This project benefits 80,000 acres.
2. Tadipudi Lift Irrigation scheme, mostly for providing drinking water to the water-starved upland mandals of West Godavari district, is partially Operational.
3. Brahmamsagar Project (benefits 50,000 acres) in Cuddapah district
4. Pedderu Reservoir (benefits 13,000 acres) in Visakhapatnam district
5. Jhanjhavati Project (benefits 9000 acres) in Vizianagaram district
Further details can be obtained at http://ppms.cgg.gov.in/Reports.do (login as guest/guest).
12)
3 TMC of water from Gandipet is sufficient to supply drinking water to our city. Every year 1700 TMC of water is wasted and is flown into Bay of Bengal from river Godavari. Starting from Nizambad to Bay of Bengal there is no project allowed to build on Godavari. If it is built leaders in Godavari districts fear that the fertile lands in the area may fall short of water. If the Godavari water is utilized properly, there will be no scarcity for food grains in our state.
________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________
Ans:
The statement is contradicting itself. Godavari districts are not using the 1700 tmc water, as the statement says. What would they gain, by blocking projects that utilize this water ? 1700 tmc is equivalent to more than 4 Nagarjunasagar reservoirs ! And 1200 tmc is way above the requirements of telangana region, which means there will still be water left to sea. Why would Godavari districts block when they have no use of this water ?
Also, “no project allowed” implies blaming non-telangana region. Who ‘allows’ the projects ?? If the allegation is that there is politicial interference, then the Telangana MLAs are more in number, compared to Godavari districts. Why didn’t anyone resort to such ‘Aamarana Deeksha’ for getting projects built ? Telangana leaders/intellectuals conveniently cover up the fact that longstanding interstate issues existed between Maharashtra, (the now) Chattisgarh and AP for Ichampally Project. Why haven’t any of these leaders/intellectuals helped the Govt in these issues, if they’re so interested ? They also do not mention that the Sripada Sagar dam is one of the larger capacity dams built on Godavari river for the benefit of Telanagana region, after AP was formed.
Godavari dists are mostly irrigated based on the projects/canals built by the british (other than the new dowleswaram barrage). They couldn’t even get new projects implemented for benefitting the backward western parts (the manyam areas) and they’re being blamed for blocking Telangana projects.

Note to ADMIN: Please do the needful if pasting in full from another forum is not allowed.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by skaranam »

ramana wrote:Almost a month into the crisis, we should summarize the various factors in play at this time.

To me it looks like its an inside INC problem.

From scuttlebutt, if Telangana forms the largest beneficiary would be CBN.
I can see the INC issue, however benefit for CBN escapes me. Could you please explain?

Is there a way to quantify the effect of Maoist issue on Telangana development?
One way could be Rs X Crores were spent on Police rather than development in Telangana.
X number of Public Infrastructure (or Rs Y Crores) were destroyed by Maoists, thus impeding the development in Telangana
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Satya_anveshi »

a_kumar wrote:In a different context, on a different day, on a different topic, all of us would in one voice express frustration at such acts and drop chiches like "how things are same in India" and "We are like this only" etc. Infact, I am sure some of us from both sides said that out loud on few of above occasions..

As we are seeing now, things are not the same when we (yes, even the uber-jingos of BRF) end up in one of the sides. Everything becomes fair game and "Ends justify the means". That is just sad and I guess "we will be like this only".
wow, a_kumar ji..maan gaye. Guess the lure of Gandhigiri (no disrespect meant to the father of nation) is so intense that one would never want to miss giving a lecture on this. You cut paste my post that starts with "I am not condoning voilence" and my commentary on modus operandi in Indian dharna/protests with examples from everywhere and yet I am bombarded with these lectures.

General question for residents : I am a little removed from local press and going by the exchange on this forum it looks a little asymmetric. I am wondering, given the way things are with mob mentality, I would assume there should be similar response (violence and threats of violence) from United AP folks as well. Whats going on?
I am too out of touch with almost everything that is happening but as things were happening and as a late joiner to the thread, I started to look at this in dispassionate way. If I may say, I am getting those little bits of news from BR itself rather than actively following.

Here's my "theory" (not ground situation) on your question: Not a telegana soul lives in Andhra region inspite of being more "prosperous" that other regions so there is no exposed underbelly within Andhra for retaliation. As to voilence in Hyd, my simple explanation/theory is that it may be the prospect of net loss (financial, political, physical) that may be stopping them (and not the gain or even shame/shame..i mean same/same).
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by vasu_ray »

Irrigating high lands,

one could build 'canyon' dams on Godavari anbd Krishna upstream and pump the water for the remaining height, then drip irrigation is the way to go

Power sources,

regarding 'rights for first use' of K-G basin gas either there is a constitutional basis or an agitation is needed and Reliance can easily buy off any players

From Telangana perspective, the 26% state cut of Ramagundam power may not be available to Andhra, and in the long run based on this

"4) India to substitute gas for coal in power generation, hugely reducing carbon emissions and making Jairam Ramesh look saintly."

Singareni collieries coal mines last for 30 years or so with current production rate, not sure how long will K-G basin will last making both regions depend on National grid

Calculating Maoist impact,

Maoist problem involves innumerable bandhs they instigate in the local PSUs and consequent CISF deployments

The lost opportunities due to low investor confidence

the irrigable lands that aren't cultivated by planting red flags and impounded by the state as well

the never improving education standards as the faculty will never want to live in these remote places
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Satya_anveshi »

ramana wrote:Almost a month into the crisis, we should summarize the various factors in play at this time.
To me it looks like its an inside INC problem.
From scuttlebutt, if Telangana forms the largest beneficiary would be CBN.
This is what I leant from this thread (as I was out of touch and never thought I will debate about any given topic at this length):

1) TRS - their raisins are the Telangana
2) TDP - in the last election took a stand for separate Telangana (?) - Call me dumb but I am surprised to learn this so late. That should also tell some of the posters how much I am "glued" with the movement and passionate about to even justify violence.
3) INC - ran on unified AP plank
4) PRP - ran on unified AP plank but are the newest, smallest, and weakest party.

Now, if INC comes around (for whatever reasons) and says let's go with Telangana, then "technically" we have all agreeing parties. Without going in CTs, one reason INC thought it should go with Telangana is to prevent its loss in the coming elections should TDP and TRS take advantage of the ground swelling of opinion for Telangana. The other reasons could be to call the bluff of TDP (assuming my 2 is correct).

Of course there is this last reason of doing the right thing for the region and effectively for India to take the next level of development.

TDP gains in Telangana are not set in stone, actually not even in rest of Andhra. If TDP is shown to be vacillating in Telangana then its gains will be reduced in Telangana at the same time, if it continues to highlight that even TDP went for Telangana then there will be some backlash against it (gains will be reduced). All that said and done, elections in India and especially in AP are won on caste/creed basis that game of which INC can play it well (better than most).

So, I don't quite agree that TDP will be major gainer in all this. INC has potential to play it deftly and win over everywhere.
Satya_anveshi
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Satya_anveshi »

Muppala garu,

I will go thru the jabili link you posted (thanks).
a_kumar
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by a_kumar »

@Anuj. Thanks, but note that I am getting at something else.
anuj wrote:
-If its Telangana then this movement may achieve it.
-If its development/governance, then this movement is moot, because there is no accountability.
These two sentences have rightly put it. Part of the blame should clearly go to telangana's politicians. I have already said there only purpose is to achieve telangana.
Ofcourse pick any issue in our lives, at the root are politicians.. thats easy.

What I am pointing to is a little difficult to digest. I am looking at common man/commentators/intellectuals/activists etc who needs to shoulder most of the blame (that should include Satya, yourself, Sujai etc first, followed by folks like me). At a fundamental level, there was NO activity to highlight or fight for better governance and development, until KCR one day realized he cannot overtake CBN and become CM of AP.

I don't see anybody owning up to it.. Again, I am pasting from above.. For those who want to shut down the capital for so many days and threaten violence and keep out of work to agitate, are these below steps so difficult?
I am not against separation per se. But what I am worried about is that people are fighting street wars just so that more greedy mouths of politicos/bureaucrats can be fed. This whole movement provides little to no tangible improvement to common man, because, the malaise is still untreated.

Forget 20-30 year earlier. In this new age of media presence,
-What if T-vadis spent a fraction of this rage on these 40% of the MLAs and ministers that belong to Telangana?
-What if T-vadis went on hunger strike to make these 40% of MLAs respond with concrete proposals?
-what if T-vadis started a media campaign to show that MLAs have not delivered and publish progress reports?
I think we all know the answer, there is no activist or leader to shoulder this responsibility. That leaves KCR and ilk to hijack/exploit whichever way they want. As long as that holds, all this is "mostly" timepass.
anuj wrote: But you have to start with something. A place. A time. Telangana's politicians are incompetent, no doubt. Taking this incompetency as an advantage and discriminating the region is no doubt either.
If we keep harping on politicians, then I don't any reason for improvement. You mention 3 districts, I will mention 3 more in other parts of AP which are exploited. There will always be a certain level of exploitation whether it be in AP or any new state.

anuj wrote: You need to wonder why people have ignored everything else and stick-ed to that one demand - telangana. It's not psy-ops. It's a combination of a lot of things. Legit grievances.
IMO, because they haven't figured out their end-game and let KCR's rhetoric take the initiative. Even posters on this forum don't hesitate to bandy around opinions as facts and conveniently drop some statistics. When nobody is willing to call on KCR, all that is left is his rhetoric morphing into fact. Add to that things got so completely out of control and polarized that "KCR's goal of CM ship" has morphed into "T-vadis goal of statehood", leaving development and governance out. And Legit grievances against whom? Shouldn't it be against the representatives. Where is the outrage?
anuj wrote:There are more things to do after the separation. Again i hope, one of two parties take control because under KCR, ain't expecting much to happen.
Well, too much bloodshed for the faint hope when other workable options are available.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by a_kumar »

anuj wrote: As you can see, i have even wished for an outside power to lead telangana. The people of telangana are fighting for one thing at a time. The first thing in the list is a separate statehood.
You are ok with even an outside power, but insist that cannot be from AP. Aren't we getting lost in this whole mess?

In any case, since you say one thing at a time, do you have a list of all the things T-vadis are fighting for? I am not talking rhetoric on TV, I am talking about concrete manifesto or some paper announcement/agenda? That was a genuine question and I hope for Telangana's sake somebody has that!!

Recommended : JP Narayan's interview (in Telugu)
vasu_ray
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by vasu_ray »

oh btw, forgot to add the health-care costs of the coal belt are statistically higher due to coal dust and contaminated water while they supply power to other areas and Honorable Andhra minister Dasari eats away the employee pension as well

Kakinada in Andhra region can become the next soot city if they import coal from Australia and fire the local and VTPS thermal plants thus improving the power sources in the region, it would be a disaster though for environmental reasons

Better we obtain Australian Uranium
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Satya_anveshi »

a_kumar wrote:At a fundamental level, there was NO activity to highlight or fight for better governance and development, until KCR one day realized he cannot overtake CBN and become CM of AP.
a_kumar garu,

I stumbled up this news report of Oct 2008 pre-election (hope its reliable enough for us to consider fair):

Admins, I am posting in full as the tidbits are spread everwhere:

TDP takes u-turn, supports separate Telangana
Hyderabad, Oct 9 2008 (IANS) Taking a u-turn, the main opposition Telugu Desam Party (TDP) in Andhra Pradesh Thursday supported the demand for separate statehood to the Telangana region, paving the way for an electoral alliance with Telangana Rashtra Samiti (TRS).The TDP politburo, which met here in the morning, unanimously passed a resolution supporting separate statehood for Telangana. Party president N. Chandrababu Naidu announced the decision at a news conference.

The TDP has all along been a strong advocate of a united Andhra Pradesh and vociferously opposed the demand for bifurcation of the state. It fought 2004 elections on the plank of united Andhra Pradesh.

Naidu said the party would convey its decision to Pranab Mukherjee committee, formed by the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government to look into the demand for separate Telangana. The party had earlier opposed the demand before the committee.

He said the party would do everything “legally possible” to achieve the separate Telangana and if voted to power it would support a resolution in the state assembly.

The TDP is committed for the welfare of Telugu people and it also respects the sentiments and self-respect of people of Telangana,” he said.

Naidu denied that his party changed the stand in view of the coming elections and pointed out that the process of reconsidering the stand began after 2004 elections.

We have taken a decision after looking into all aspects and a thorough debate,” he said and hoped that party leaders from coastal Andhra and Rayalseema regions would appreciate the party’s stand.

Under pressure from its own leaders from Telangana, the TDP had formed a core committee earlier this year to look into the issue. The core committee submitted its report to Naidu last week.

Some top leaders including former minister T. Devender Goud quit the TDP recently to protest the delay in taking a favourable stand on Telangana. Goud floated a new party Nava Telangana Praja Party to fight for separate Telangana.

The change of stand by the TDP is likely to have dramatic impact on the state’s political scene in the run up to the next year’s elections. The TDP became the first major political party in the state to take a clear stand in support of Telangana.

The ruling Congress is yet to take a clear stand despite strong demand from its Telangana leaders. The party’s state unit has left a final decision to party president Sonia Gandhi.

Naidu came down heavily on the Congress for “betraying” the people of Telangana since 1969. “Congress has always betrayed Telangana,” he alleged.

The TDP’s u-turn has now paved way for for its alliance with the TRS and a possible grand alliance. Both the TDP and TRS are in talks with the Communist Party of India (CPI) and Communist Party of India-Marxist (CPI-M) for a grand alliance against the ruling Congress party.

The TRS and the two communist parties had fought 2004 elections in alliance with Congress. The elections ended nearly a decade long rule of Chandrababu Naidu.

The TRS, which had joined Congress-led coalitions both in the state and at the centre, later pulled out and accused the Congress of going back on its promise to deliver separate Telangana.

The demand for separate Telangana is nearly six decades old. The region comprising 10 districts including Hyderabad was part of erstwhile Hyderabad state. The region was merged with Andhra in 1956 to form Andhra Pradesh for Telugu-speaking people. The people of Telangana were opposed to this merger but they were assured that their interests would be protected.

Telangana witnessed a violent movement for separate state in 1969. More than 300 people were killed in police firing.

K. Chandrasekhara Rao, who quit TDP in 2000 to float the TRS, revived the Telangana movement.
Would you still hold that view that "until KCR one day realized he cannot overtake CBN and become CM of AP"?
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Satya_anveshi »

Telangana: TDP, Congress bid to corner credit

This is a report from Oct 29, 2009 (two days ago) from TOIlet:
HYDERABAD: Though all the pro-Telangana parties have joined JAC, the TDP and Congress appear to be in a race to outdo each other and want to get maximum credit when T-state becomes a reality.
The TDP also demanded that the MPs from the region should submit their resignations to the Lok Sabha speaker to put pressure on Congress high command to take steps in the direction of carving a separate state.
So, the frigging issue is about who is going to take the credit for Telangana. Not some random whines on who gets to keep Hyd :shock: , perceived or real injustices. All that passed ages ago. Talk about living in the past.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Satya_anveshi »

posters may recall my proposal for TDP here.

The problem was that TDP had already played its card on Telangana (which I didn't realize at that time) and went for the shortterm gain with long term loss (for the perspective of proponents of united AP). He screwed those folks right then.

But the other element of the strategy is playing out ( I will not be surprised if Naidu is helping it play): BJP is seeking further divisions (that is their best talent anyway), Mayawati is calling for other divisions and thereby hoping to complicate matters for INC or even prevent it.

Clearly, Naidu wants to have it and eat it too. That is the problem with his stand/"tactic" ( I don't want to call it a strategy).
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Satya_anveshi »

I would like to request moderators to please rename the title of this thread to "Telangana Monitor." The scope of this thread has mostly been Telangana and is the current issue facing all of us. As we look back, this thread will also provide content on the BR's contribution. People looking for Telangana topic on BR will easily find it too.

I might as well take up the task to document and summarize the discussion for all of us in the form of BR article. (no promise as of now but will try my best)

"Redrawing State Boundaries" reflects more general and the discussion and content does not justify. I hope my request is reasonable.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by ShyamSP »

anuj wrote:The devil inside... all.

Demand for bifurcation of TN absurd: Chidambaram
Chennai, Jan 1 (PTI) Union Home Minister P Chidambaram today dismissed as "meaningless and absurd" demand for bifurcation of Tamil Nadu, saying the idea should be nipped in the bud.
:rotfl:

We demand Northern Tamilnadu as separate state Mr chi chi Chidambaram.

"Rivers of blood would flow if Souther Tamilnadu people say "United Tamilnadu". Attack Southern Tamilnadu people in Chennai. Madurai log bhagoo " said Tamil-KCR :twisted:
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