Telangana Monitor

[a_kumar]

At a fundamental level, there was NO activity to highlight or fight for better governance and development, until KCR one day realized he cannot overtake CBN and become CM of AP.

a_kumar garu,

I stumbled up this news report of Oct 2008 pre-election (hope its reliable enough for us to consider fair):

Admins, I am posting in full as the tidbits are spread everwhere:

TDP takes u-turn, supports separate Telangana

Hyderabad, Oct 9 2008 (IANS) Taking a u-turn, the main opposition Telugu Desam Party (TDP) in Andhra Pradesh Thursday supported the demand for separate statehood to the Telangana region, paving the way for an electoral alliance with Telangana Rashtra Samiti (TRS). The TDP politburo, which met here in the morning, unanimously passed a resolution supporting separate statehood for Telangana. Party president N. Chandrababu Naidu announced the decision at a news conference.

The TDP has all along been a strong advocate of a united Andhra Pradesh and vociferously opposed the demand for bifurcation of the state. It fought 2004 elections on the plank of united Andhra Pradesh.

......

K. Chandrasekhara Rao, who quit TDP in 2000 to float the TRS, revived the Telangana movement.

Would you still hold that view that "until KCR one day realized he cannot overtake CBN and become CM of AP"?

Satya garu,

I am not referring to political moves in 2004 (INC) and 2009 (TDP). I am referring to absence of activism from intellectuals/commentators/media until KCR's political move in 2001, 2004 and 2009. Yes, I still see relevance of my comment, which points to absence of efforts to improve governance/development. The political circus in past decade doesn't count.

It is increasingly becoming a case of missing forest for the trees. Here one incident (names changed ..) that best parallels the situation..

Eons ago when we were in chaddis, my best friend used to go to library every weekend to meet girls. He used to strategize on what books interest them, which corner to hang around, what section has "thought-provoking books" etc etc.. hoping somebody will approach him. Weeks passed and nothing happened. Now he gets genuinely interested in the book he has been holding for show. One fine week when my friend was completely engrossed in the book, his plan works, a good looking girl comes, sits next to him and says "I see you are a regular here.. nice to see you around". And my friend goes "Hm...yes ....hmmmmm ... uh .. ... no.. ahem.. ahem" until the girl remembers she had to leave and bails out.

His response in the evening, "I didn't know what to do..... I didn't think about when some girl talks to me"

If he had thought that through and figured out how to strike and carry on a conversation, then he didnt even need to go the library and spent weeks there. He could have struck up a conversation anywhere, including in the library!

[Satya_anveshi]

I am referring to absence of activism from intellectuals/commentators/media until KCR's political move in 2001, 2004 and 2009. Yes, I still see relevance of my comment, which points to absence of efforts to improve governance/development

a_kumar garu,

While I agree with your healthy comments that during the period between 1969-72 (last visible political movement on Telangana) and 2001 (let's say 30 years), there wasn't much activism from intellectuals/commentators and media. However, at the same time, those intellectuals can also be accused of not giving the genuine chance to leadership of united AP to realize the dream they had. So, it is a dicey situation.

Further, the lethargy, inefficiency and ineffectiveness of our political and even intellectual class is second to none and Telanganas do get their due share here.

My own opinion, which I have mentioned, is that Telangana leaders are going to have an uphill task governing the newly carved out state but there is no alternative to the first hand experience. Good thing is that we are now in our second phase of development as a nation, and they will HAVE to be on their toes to accelerate or even sustain the growth.

I hope TRS, TINC (Telangana INC), TTDP (Telangana TDP) parties make "growth" as the election platform. I really wish that a) people become more vocal as to what they demand from their politicians and measure them on their performance b) politicians to must focus on growth and showcase to garner the best political mileage (and leave our the caste/creed type of groupthink)

I wish the same for non-telangana (andhra pradesh) too.

I also see this current struggle (by most parties) as healthy fight . Just hope to see they focus on getting more resources from center for their go forward strategies (well develop them with growth, prosperity, standard of living in mind) rather than whining on non-negotiable things and/or resigning for status quo.

[Satya_anveshi]

---self deleted

[a_kumar]

I am referring to absence of activism from intellectuals/commentators/media until KCR's political move in 2001, 2004 and 2009. Yes, I still see relevance of my comment, which points to absence of efforts to improve governance/development

a_kumar garu,

While I agree with your healthy comments that during the period between 1969-72 (last visible political movement on Telangana) and 2001 (let's say 30 years), there wasn't much activism from intellectuals/commentators and media. However, at the same time, those intellectuals can also be accused of not giving the genuine chance to leadership of united AP to realize the dream they had. So, it is a dicey situation.

We seem to be circling around the point, but not quite getting there. Let me get to it and ask a question,

Forget what happened politically, before 2001 or after 2001. Okay for 30 years until 2001, there wasn't much activity. But how about since 2001? What activity was there by intellectuals/commentators and media?

Further, the lethargy, inefficiency and ineffectiveness of our political and even intellectual class is second to none and Telanganas do get their due share here.

....

I hope TRS, TINC (Telangana INC), TTDP (Telangana TDP) parties make "growth" as the election platform. I really wish that a) people become more vocal as to what they demand from their politicians and measure them on their performance b) politicians to must focus on growth and showcase to garner the best political mileage (and leave our the caste/creed type of groupthink)

I guess the consensus is that in the end, we leave it to the politicians and hope for best! Like they say "Thoorpuki thirigi dannam pettu" (Turn to east and pray)!

Its what we all (not just T-vadis) did until now in united AP and its what we will do in future wherever we are.

[a_kumar]

If Telangana were to become a reality, I hope central govt makes R.P Meena as in charge (DGP?) of Telangana Police. He may be now IGP of Rayalaseema. He has special love for Maoist and will be an effective counter for the threat. I still remember, as a school going student, how he inspired me and several others (for IAS/IPS) when he came to our district on his first appointment.

Yeah.. Meena really shook things up wherever he went and got posted in Naxal areas as punitive measure. He clamped down heavily on goodaism and invested in crack teams. Still remember our knuckles being checked whenever we wore tracksuits.. (they were watching boxing clubs closely).

Ofcourse, CPI, TDP and even TRS may not like it as he as uncanny ability to be on the wrong side of "politics."

You left INC, but in any case you just answered your question!

[Satya_anveshi]

What activity was there by intellectuals/commentators and media?

a_kumar garu,

Rather than talk in riddles or perhaps testing me, go ahead and elaborate your thoughts on this. I believe politicians are the major drivers for any initiative that impact population of significance but I also believe that it is too important a task to leave everything on their shoulders.

So, go ahead and elaborate your ideas/thoughts on what you hoped to see.

[Satya_anveshi]

You left INC, but in any case you just answered your question!

I left INC because I didn't notice any such *public* collusion but will be interesting to hear your take.

CPI - Obvious
TDP - Peratala Ravi's case
TRS - obvious(?)

Note: I stumbled upon a Chindu newsreport that says he is now Addl-DGP.

Added later:

I got your point. The same TDP's P Ravi's case also exposed his (Meena's) relations with YSR (INC) at that time.

[a_kumar]

What activity was there by intellectuals/commentators and media?

a_kumar garu,

Rather than talk in riddles or perhaps testing me, go ahead and elaborate your thoughts on this. I believe politicians are the major drivers for any initiative that impact population of significance but I also believe that it is too important a task to leave everything on their shoulders.

So, go ahead and elaborate your ideas/thoughts on what you hoped to see.

Didn't mean to come off in riddle or testing.. apologies. Thanks for clarifying your stand that I highlighted. That is where we disagree.

QUOTE "I believe politicians are the major drivers for any initiative that impact population of significance "

What I am saying is this
- I fundamentally suspect any initiative by the politicians with few exceptions.
- There are some who provide collateral development and I can support them.
- KRS isn't one and I have little regard for his motivations.
- Infact, I would go as far as saying that he created this sentiment where it was minimal around 2000.
- aka. He needed career growth

T-vadis need to make up their mind on the end-game.
(1) If its Telangana *state* then this movement may achieve it.
(2) If its development/governance, then this movement is moot, because there is no accountability

If your endgame is (1) , then I have nothing further to add. And lets never bring development or governance into this discussion.

However, if its (2), then read on.
QUOTE I also believe that it is too important a task to leave everything on their shoulders.
- The above task was thoroughly underserved and that is the gist of series of my posts.
- If KCR was responding to a campaign for development, it could have been different (though I suspect it).
- I see JP as an activist more than politician and he was the only sane voice in all this.
- It is Telangana's misfortune that folks like him did not set the agenda.
- I blame all the "current K-vadis" for allowing a vacuum that KCR could exploit and set the agenda.
- Even after 2001 (when media found their new calling), no activist worth any salt spent a minute on this.

[Yagnasri]

This situation is going no where. We are going to see more agitations after 5th jan meeting also. Worst thing our politicians are doing is to bring non politicians into the issue. When we have MLA's MP's from both side we can discuss and agitate on the issue why bring all and sundry into the picture. This issue ultimately to be solved by politicians only.

Let us be very frank who are these STUDENTS in OU and other places. From their looks all these people must be 35plus. What courses these people are doing ??? You find none of the these people are doing anything worth while in the OU. It is the same case in costal area or Rayalaseema also. What is the accountability these people have.

I ask the people here Can you name one good boy or girl from your families or relatives who is doing something in any univercity other than may be JNTU, Agri Medical We find no one. So let us not call these useless fellows as students and make them big heros.

[shaardula]

a_kumar,
precisely. i am able to get my folks to read out loud telugu papers for me. that is precisely what i found suspicious. the entire thing, on both sides, seems disproportionately top down.

[anuj]

@a_kumar
I appreciate you pointing out the short comings within the telangana stock for "supposedly" not standing up and fighting for there right and needs. Though i feel you are biased. Your riddling away to put the blame on one side and you have chosen to write zilch about the other side.

The nizams built a military-feudal system, focused only on revenue, little or no education or development. Soon, the economic and cultural gap between the two regions grew enormous. The only meeting ground for the two was telugu. But even that had variations. Taking language as the basis, nobody thought it would be amiss. And hence an uneasy alliance between two unequals was forged. The SRC back then had even expressed fear that the pugnacious, learned, tutored and lavish stock of seemandhra would overwhelm the people of telangana and exploit them if they were merged together.

Noticing the extreme disparity between the two, this is what followed after that. Read it in it's entirety.

Fifty three years of integration of the two regions has seen the emergence of Telangana as a colony of the resourceful Andhra people. Every promise given to Telangana people to safeguard their interests, whether it was in terms of allocation of resources or water or jobs in government and public sector, has been violated with impunity.

Although Telangana accounts for 40 per cent of the land area and people, its share of the revenues and other resources like water, power, development of education, infrastructure and so on is far less. Importantly, far from forging unity based on language, there is a tremendous disconnect between them as the coastal Andhra people look down upon the people of Telangana as inferior, mock the language they speak, deride their customs and traditions, scoff at their history and heap scorn at their political struggles. Then they claim to be the reason for all the development and growth in the region, especially Hyderabad, which is now on the national and global maps as a metropolis of the future.

The grievances of Telangana and the anger of its people at their systematic deprivation and exploitation are so real that every political party, with the exception of CPI(M), supported the creation of Telangana state. Whether it was the Congress in 2004 or the Telugu Desam Party in 2009, they believed they could retain their presence in Telangana only by forging an alliance with Telangana Rashtra Samiti which was a clear acknowledgement of the rationale for a separate existence. Yet when it came to the crux, after supporting creation of Telangana state an all party meeting held by the Congress government, they had no qualms in opposing the Dec 7 announcement of Union Home Minister P Chidamabaram to initiate the process of bifurcation.

Parties like TDP, Praja Rajyam Party of Chiranjeevi and a powerful section of Congress went back on their commitment to Telangana and led an agitation for a unified state. “That is the typical Andhra mentality... unprincipled and two-timing,” said an activist on condition of anonymity. “They treat Telangana people and their votes as expendable... no wonder that the people got so angry,” he said. The opposition parties who supported Telangana got as many as 57 seats to the Assembly in the May 2009 elections out of 119 in the region.

Telangana revived the sagging political fortunes of TDP while propping up PRP, CPI and BJP.

...

The hold of the capitalist class over political power has expanded dramatically in recent years and breaking up of AP will equally dramatically cut into their profits and political power. Fifty three years of integration and consequent exploitation by this class, led by the Kamma caste has sharpened the disparities. Now these same forces are saying development will suffer if the state is bifurcated. “Kamma capital has grabbed and monopolises the economic space and politically, Kammas have dramatically expanded their power. These complexities are either not understood or are swept under the carpet by national leadership,” he said.

He believes all out efforts are being made to nullify the students struggle and negate people’s assertions by this combine of upper caste, politically and economically powerful interests. Gita Ramaswamy, activist-writer-publisher-researcher, believes the present movement led by students belonging to the oppressed and backward castes has achieved almost a miracle when a leader of a political party like K Chandrasekhar Rao of Telangana Praja Samiti had to bend to their power by resuming his hunger strike that he wanted to give up in the first week of December. Also, the present movement is perhaps the first in recent history of Andhra Pradesh not to have been influenced by the Maoists. “The more aware people become, the more democratic they are, the less they will take up arms,” said Gita. So will Telangana become a reality? “The movement has reached a critical mass... it has become a decisive force. Telangana is bound to happen because it is not what they give but what we take,” she said.

[anuj]

So finally, they talk. I think they(like everyone) had a doubt whether the state would form. But now since it is certain, they have come out. External forces? Make what you want of this...

Telangana Christian Communities Urge For Talks Over The New State Formation

Christian community of the Telangana region in Andhra Pradesh demanded central government to discuss with it on the issue of Telangana state formation.

Christian leaders belonging to both Catholic and Protestant Churches expressed their worries over the recent attacks on Churches, pastors and Christian officials and asked for a discussion with them over the Telangana issue. Leaders of the Global Alliance Christian Leaders said that they were being sidelined during the discussions. They made it clear that they were not against the new state formation but however, wanted an assurance about their rights and role in the new state.

G. David Shant Raj, chairman of the Global Alliance Christian Leaders, said that Union Home Minister P. Chidambaram should also call the Christian leaders for the talk that is scheduled for January 5. In his statement he said, "We want to share our views. We want to know what will be the share of Christians in the power, what will be done for their safety and security?"

Shant Raj blamed the BJP and its student wing ABVP for the recent attacks on the Christian community and said, "There have been at least 32 incidents of attacks on churches, pastors and Christians during the last one month." The Christian leaders fear that that the communal forces will get a strong foothold in the new state.

Christians form about two percent of the total population in the Telangana region, which comprises 10 districts, including Hyderabad.

Original article was written here - Indo-Asian News Service

[Satya_anveshi]

If your endgame is (1) , then I have nothing further to add. And lets never bring development or governance into this discussion.

a_kumar garu,

I hope you see your folly here.

a) you are measuring the Telangana with a yardstick with which if measured, no other region/state will withstand the same test.
b) just because there was no intellectual backup/media highlight (before 2001) and KCR doing for political aspirations, the movement or grievances are suspect; If there wasn’t any ground feeling, there wouldn’t be KCR
c)Any such activism before a due time can also be accused that no due chance was given to the united leadership ( I mentioned this earlier).

Let's invert your stand and ask this:

Which intellectual group / media or even politician before 2001 from non-Telangana showed any activism to correct the disparity, bring everything within the unified agenda, and address the grievances on the ground uniformly?

The answer would be none.

- Even after 2001 (when media found their new calling), no activist worth any salt spent a minute on this.

Now, I don't recall from before 2001, but after 2001, Prof Jayashankar from KU Warangal has been providing the horsepower for this movement. It may be minimal but is not certainly zero. It would be unfair to him for all his hard work to say this.

[Satya_anveshi]

the link referred by anuj in his earlier post for better access:

Good to see that the economics angle is being highlighted for what it is.

Hyderabad, economics are at the heart of Telangana

Will the New Year fulfil the cherished hope of the people of Telangana for a state of their own? Or will 2010 go down in history of the Telangana people as yet another tombstone marking the snuffed out aspirations of Telangana for an existence based on dignity, keeping intact its unique identity?

[sanjaychoudhry]

We want to know what will be the share of Christians in the power,

Very strange question to ask of the government in a secular democracy.

[Satya_anveshi]

a_kumar,
precisely. i am able to get my folks to read out loud telugu papers for me. that is precisely what i found suspicious. the entire thing, on both sides, seems disproportionately top down.

I am glad that it is atleast top-down and a move forward. Like investors who dont mind smell of profits in the morning or coming from wherever, I don't mind a good deed being done by anyone.

Fortunately, all current major political parties in AP will remain the major political parties of Telangana if it were to happen. So, the battelfield is not unknown, players are not unknown but the energy/initiative and the scope will be new.

[anuj]

We want to know what will be the share of Christians in the power,

Very strange question to ask of the government in a secular democracy.

All cards are not out yet. A religious angle to this equation will attract human rights activist from all corners of planet earth. Some of those activists are influenced by major religious nuts. A small flock can bring the whole heard behind it. It might be one of the final cards they use. If something like that does happen, it means someone is out risk mitigating.

Wonder what talks they want to talk about? I think someone is pushing them to ask for reservations.

[Satya_anveshi]

I have also heard (not sure if it is true) that MIM(?) and Jamait-e-islami al Hind has given its support for Telangana.

Muslims constitute a signficant majority in the old city of Hyd, a geographical entity with more than 600 years of historical relevance. Hence they have 1 or 2 seats.

Christians need to be told that they will be entitled to their rights just as enshrined in Indian constitution.

[anuj]

Muslims constitute a signficant majority in the old city of Hyd, a geographical entity with more than 600 years of historical relevance. Hence they have 1 or 2 seats.

Muslims form around 12% of telangana population. A large portion(40%) resides in hyd. They think they will have a better chance to represent islam in the new state. The islamic leaders of telangana have refused to put there weight on either side till the state forms. They are planning to gun strongly for reservations. If NDA doesn't get telangana, expect ridiculous reservations quotas.

Christians need to be told that they will be entitled to their rights just as enshrined in Indian constitution.

You kidding me? These are the smart one's unlike the one's mentioned above. Tough nut to crack. The don't make noise. They prefer a silent takeover. Why do you think they have attached themselves to education and health care? It all forms a part of there expansion program. Some of them are out there in foreign media circuits representing india, BBC is a good example. As CT as it sounds still you need to know your enemy. Consensus is the key. And they have the tools for building consensus as they prefer. We've already surrendered the three imp channels and most of us don't even know about it. Education, health care and media. We need to take that back.

[Satya_anveshi]

They are planning to gun strongly for reservations. If NDA doesn't get telangana, expect ridiculous reservations quotas.

I may say it could even be vice-versa. Without a major election platform (reservations), BJP will find it tough to make any inroads in Telangana.

We should not forget that YSR was talking about this even during the previous elections.

My comment is that the reservations are a matter dealing with Constitution and should withstand the scrutiny of Indian courts. Any more comments on that will not be helpful.

Same thing goes for comments on christians. Any more comments will see all kinds of shadow boxing and unproductive discussion. To me that problem is as real as the potential problem of Maoist.

[ShyamSP]

This situation is going no where. We are going to see more agitations after 5th jan meeting also.

Here is calendar

01/03 students agitation
01/04 SeemaAndhra Bandh
01/05 Black Day Bandh

Since Seemandhra called for two day bandh, T-vadis will have to match them, they may call bandh on 01/06 and 01/07.

RTS buses and trains are holding on to their life with fear....

Let us be very frank who are these STUDENTS in OU and other places. From their looks all these people must be 35plus.

One can be in the campus hostels till 45 years with hostel food and room. Due to local and non-local quotas, 70-80% students are from Telengana areas in Hostels. Most students get out within time frame, but vocal majority and especially student and political party protagonists stay for ever.

Some true examples.

- One 32 year old stundet, married with 1 kid. He came to hostels for weekdays. He didn't go to college but did some odd jobs in Hyderbad including working as a student goonda for a political party. Good source of income if you work for political party interests *

- One old guy was not student but stayed there in his relative room and ate in the hostel mess. The actual student was a day-scholar.

- PDSU hostelers owned the hostels and ran up the mess bills sometimes double than what real cost would have been. ABVP and RSU would get a few months to own. Another Good source of income if you calculate for student reps.

....
* There is rumor that KCR got 30 crores for fasting. OU student leaders got a couple of crores for doing what they did.

[a_kumar]

Jan 1, 2010 (Rediff) : Telangana Muslims back separate statehood; but MIM keeps quiet

Though Muslims in Hyderabad's old city, the bastions of the MIM are largely silent and aloof from the one month long agitation for Telangana state, the minority community members were participating in large numbers in protests and processions in other nine Telangana districts.

As the well established organisations like Jamat-e-Islami have declared their full support to Telangana on the grounds that smaller states will be helpful in providing good governance, several other Muslim groups like Muslim Forum for Telangana and Telangana Muslim Front have also come up to spearhead the movement.

The issue of Muslim participation in Telangana movement has always been sensitive and crucial as they constitute nearly 20 per cent of the four crore population of the region and were mostly concentrated in Hyderabad and other urban centers like Nizamabad, Kamareddy, Warangal, Karimnagar, Adilabad and Nalgonda.

.....

The MIM, which has one seat in Lok Sabha and seven in the state assembly, is among the eight recognised political parties of the state invited for the January 5 talks by the Central government. "We will not come out with our stand in the very first meeting as it will be a prolonged process," said the MIM president and Member of Parliament Asaduddin Owaisi [ Images ].

Even as nearly 90 legislators of different political parties in Telangana region announced their resignations to mount pressure on the Central government to form the state, MIM has kept silent and the party has made no such announcement.

MIM has traditionally been opposed to the division of Andhra Pradesh and formation of Telangana state on the ground that separate Telangana state will be more fertile ground for the Bharatiya Janata Party [ Images ] and other 'communal forces' and the people from Andhra and Rayalseema regions were 'more secular' than those of Telangana.

"If Telangana is formed, politically it will be beneficial for my party as it can win 15 to 20 seats in a 119 member assembly. But we are not looking at the issue from the angle of political benefit. We feel that it will not be in the interest of Muslim minority. BJP can never think of coming to power in an integrated Andhra Pradesh but they will have a chance in separate Telangana," Owaisi had said a few months ago.

"We are neither for Telangana state nor for a united Andhra Pradesh. We are just saying that when they sit for discussion to decide the fate of the state, MIM should have chair at the table and Muslims as a stakeholders should be heard," he had said.

But with the mounting pressure on the Central government from pro-Telangana forces and inclination in the Centre to positively consider the demand, the MIM is a bit worried about the future.

Jamat-e-Islami Hind's Amir chief of Andhra Pradesh Malik Moatasim Khan declaring Jamat's support to Telangana movement dismissed the fear of communal forces becoming communally strong and said that the communal forces were present all over the country and Jamat along with other forces will fight against them.

"The issue now is not that of creating political consensus on formation of Telangana. But now the time has come to think of the development of the Telangana state," he said, adding that the Central government does not have any option but to form Telangna state.

Movement for Peace and Justice, another active organisation, has come out in its support and said Telangana state should be formed on the basis of justice.

[anuj]

@Everyone
Regarding the muslim strategy, please refer this post.

Regarding christian strategy... they have avoided talking about it. I think they are mystified about there place in the new state. The two times they talked about was 1) During christmas, requesting TRS to call of the bandh 2) Today, requesting chidambaram to invite the xtian community in the 5th jan talks.

The 12% muslims don't say anything. How can the 2% christians begin working out the tactic by approaching chidambaram? It says that they are planning. To work out tactics, first you need to work out the strategies. I think the people who are working out the strategies are out there somewhere. These one's only follow commands and request. And my guess is that they are building the stage for reservations.

[Satya_anveshi]

I see the next steps as the following:

- After Jan 5th, Union Govt will reiterate its stand and also announce all party agreement (or at least agreement by major parties)
- Announces when the state assemby will pass the bill
- All resigned Telangana MLA/MPs(?) will take back their resignations or their letters rejected
- Timeframe for the shift (ASAP - second half of 2010) of Andhra capital out of Hyd; Ofcourse, Hyd will be the capital of Telangana; Folks in Vijayawada/Vishakhapatnam/Rajahmundry will also rejoice as their city will be the state capital;
- A special committee may be announced to look into the allocation of various resources(?)
- TDP, INC, TRS claim victory for Telangana
- Ofcourse Telangana will see festivities for a few days

[ShyamSP]

I see the next steps as the following:

- After Jan 5th, Union Govt will reiterate its stand and also announce all party agreement (or at least agreement by major parties)
- Announces when the state assemby will pass the bill
- All resigned Telangana MLA/MPs(?) will take back their resignations or their letters rejected
- Timeframe for the shift (ASAP - second half of 2010) of Andhra capital out of Hyd; Ofcourse, Hyd will be the capital of Telangana; Folks in Vijayawada/Vishakhapatnam/Rajahmundry will also rejoice as their city will be the state capital;
- A special committee may be announced to look into the allocation of various resources(?)
- TDP, INC, TRS claim victory for Telangana
- Ofcourse Telangana will see festivities for a few days

If they do that it is end of T as it is not likely to be passed in the assembly. I mentioned in existing model T is less likely to be formed unless they find new ways.

Jan 5th is another discussion day only. You have reps from three regions so it is fussy discussion day with no result.

UA People are asking if the government is rolling back the language-based SRC. That complicates from legal point of view if government has to answer.

[anuj]

UA People are asking if the government is rolling back the language-based SRC. That complicates from legal point of view if government has to answer.

Again that's dhimmified propaganda. There are already 3-5 hindi states. Why aren't they clubbed together? Why was jharkhand allowed? Why was chattisgarh allowed? Why did they go forward? Why didn't they go backwards and merge UP and bihar together? Did govt. answer to anything during then?

[ShyamSP]

UA People are asking if the government is rolling back the language-based SRC. That complicates from legal point of view if government has to answer.

Again that's dhimmified propaganda. There are already 3-5 hindi states. Why aren't they clubbed together? Why was jharkhand allowed? Why was chattisgarh allowed? Why did they go forward? Why didn't they go backwards and merge UP and bihar together? Did govt. answer to anything during then?

Hindi states are not relevant for language-based SRC. They have different states in mind.

Jharkhand, Chattisgarh were formed when respective previous assemblies passed resolution. Please understand model of how Jharkhand and Chattisgarh were formed is not right for Telengana. That model is not likely for Telengana as it is defeated in assembly even without formally presenting.

Until the other side agrees, GOI can't do much.

[a_kumar]

The nizams built a military-feudal system, focused only on revenue, little or no education or development. Soon, the economic and cultural gap between the two regions grew enormous.

Firstly I think your comment is with respect to non-Hyd-Telangana and Central-coastal-districts. I can't help but get annoyed that inspite of being called on so many times, this rhetoric keeps thrown on this forum. This will probably slide by most people who have come from rich fertile deltas (3-4 districts), but won't fly be me. Can we at least not repeat this again? Please?

Two questions. Obviously I have my answers , but curious if yours are different.

(1) What do you say is the economic and cultural gap right now between "All-Telangana" and "All-Coastal"? Is it enormous like you say it was in 47 or 55 or 75? If not, why not?

(2) Why is it that there are few to no telaganites settled in the "rich" Andhra areas or that there are few Telanganites going to schools/universities in the Andhra areas? If the development and education institutes are so heavy in that region as its made out to be, I would expect lot more presence of Telanganites in Coastal/Rayalaseema for pure career growth.

[ramana]

I had earlier said Savarkar had comented on the idea of linguitic states during his Andaman Jail period. He did so in his Letter #4 on 9/3/1915

While I am reading the books you sent I see that in the Telagu provinces the new
life that is struggling to find expression all over India, has been sweeping over our
bretheren there. The Andhra Sabha ‘आंीसभा’ is a great and grand movement but the
question of getting that province separated from the Tamil one is not enobling. But what
pained me most and what was but a natural corollary from the desire of petty
provincialisms was that the national shouts were ‘आंी माताक जय’! in this little thing
and straw we see the direction of an ominus wind to come. This is one of the unhealthy
reactions of the grand Swadeshi movement and must be corrected before it is too late.

The Swadeshi connected in Bengal with the little partition question brought in this
reaction. Every province wants to be separated, and shouts and invokes long life to
itself! But how can the province live unless the Nation lives? They all-Maharashtra,
Bengal, Madras- are great and will live long but through Her-India! So let us not say
‘आंी माताक ’ but ‘भारतमाताक जय’ of whom ‘आंी’ is only a limb, and let us sing not ‘वंग
आभार’but ‘ हं द आभार’! All provinces and petty languages instead of asking to be
separated, should try to get amalgamated and remove the barriers that yet remain and
destroy the confusion of tongues and not to hug it. Smaller nationalities! Is not Belgium
a sufficient warning? The greatest good that the British Government has done without
meaning it, is to melt and mould the disintegrating factions of our Motherland and
hammer us into a one people. Now instead of trying to remove whatever stands in the
way of its consummation, we are on the one hand hugging to the fetters that were the
necessary price of this boon and trying to turn the very boon into a curse, on the other.

[a_kumar]

@a_kumar
I appreciate you pointing out the short comings within the telangana stock for "supposedly" not standing up and fighting for there right and needs. Though i feel you are biased. Your riddling away to put the blame on one side and you have chosen to write zilch about the other side.

First, on the leaving other side scott free.. in one of my posts, I have said that there will always to some level of exploitation. I know because coming from *SARCASM ON* "so called rich " *SARCASM OFF* north-coastal Andhra area, I have seen it first hand. Whatever development there was, was collateral development because of politicians of the region. I never thought I would say this about the regional politicians, but from what I am hearing about Telangana's grievances, maybe that region is blessed to have these guys. And Telangana must be cursed that not one in 40% of the elected representatives did something!!!!!

As for my bias. I am biased towards development, period. To me that means, working on getting industries and making Hyd city of the world. A Chinchu or Shangai (google is your friend) of India that will contribute to a good chunk of India's exports. Everyday we spend on this is a week taken away from meeting that objective. My argument will fall on deaf ears, but there you have it.. my motivation.

To me Telangana/UnitedAP is not really the point. The point is where are we in the big picture, not in AP, not in South and not even in India. The big picture is the whole manufacturing has moved to China. All the Silicon devices are coming out of China/Taiwan combine now and pretty soon they will be the only big player in that field. China/Taiwan have pretty established a good base for next silicon revolution (solar and green). If you study what Malaysia/Korea and others did in the last silicon revolution, you will realize how critical "right now" is for the next 20-30 years of the country.

Yes, you will say that nothing will change with respect to Hyd. But do you hear the violent rhetoric of TRS? Not just in AP, but whole lot of states. Now, if their investments end up being writeoffs (as some of them will be the way the agitation has transformed), how will Hyd be the same.

I understand the primal fear of T-vadis. Where I come from (north coastal), whole lot of agricultural lands were bought over by rich investors from Hyd (not sure what their ancestral origin is, but for all my relatives cared, they were from Hyd). Btw, these farmers were barely getting by accumulating huge debts and the lands sometimes are as small as 0.25 acres after being split through generations. But it was their small possession and their whole world that they guarded with zeal. While there was an urge to make money by selling off, there was also fear that their folks would be marginalized looking at how "Hyd folks" were buying up 1000's of acres. Also, most of the future development areas got bought over by the "rich investors from Hyd" connected to local and hyd politicians and none of the locals own these lands anymore. Eventually, some where sold and others were retained. Construction was a lot more lopsided and Kamma/Reddy combine have dominated the building industry.So I understand that fear and envy.

But what I honestly feel is T-vadis need to get out of their well and travel to rest of the state (not just Krishna/Godavari/Guntur) and realize that their state is nothing unique and being closer to Hyd they are a lot better off. And this will not change no matter what state we are in. I wonder if anybody ever traveled east of Vijayawada? To me that is the problem. The only "couple" of Telangana folks I met were in my student years in university hostels.. that is it. I guess they probably didn't think it was worth it when the metropolis Hyd was next to them and bulk of the universities were anyway in Telangana (more than 50%)

I have highlighted my view of why KCR is driving it (Make me CM, Make me CM, Give me Hyd lands etc). Btw.. you shouldn't say anything about KCR, I can wink.. wink..!!! As for T-vadis on street, it likely this primal fear laced with envy of somebody else getting rich and we getting marginalized that is driving movement. Lack of development/lack of governance are at best a good stick to beat others, nothing more.

this is what followed after that. Read it in it's entirety.

I appreciate the pointer. One nasty habit I picked up in BRF long time ago was to NOT go by reporter's rhetoric, but go to the source of their info. For example, if the article is based on an GoI press release, then go directly to that press release to find out what was said etc.

And sir, that whole article was rhetoric as far as grievances go. No numbers that stand a good test, little facts. Ofcourse, you wouldn't be critical of this rhetoric as it suits your views and probably I would be because it doesn't suit mine!

[vijayk]

the link referred by anuj in his earlier post for better access:

Good to see that the economics angle is being highlighted for what it is.

Hyderabad, economics are at the heart of Telangana

Will the New Year fulfil the cherished hope of the people of Telangana for a state of their own? Or will 2010 go down in history of the Telangana people as yet another tombstone marking the snuffed out aspirations of Telangana for an existence based on dignity, keeping intact its unique identity?

owever, Professor S Simhadri of Osmania University believes the combine or convergence of caste, class and political interests of the powerful coastal Andhra lobbies will make all efforts to obstruct Telangana. Individuals and groups with interests in real estate, infrastructure, power plants, irrigation projects have seamlessly merged into politics with the result that they are loath to give up a burgeoning city of Hyderabad or the massive strength of 42 MPs from AP in the Lok Sabha with the resultant profits, contracts and massive commissions.
The hold of the capitalist class over political power has expanded dramatically in recent years and breaking up of AP will equally dramatically cut into their profits and political power. Fifty three years of integration and consequent exploitation by this class, led by the Kamma caste has sharpened the disparities. Now these same forces are saying development will suffer if the state is bifurcated.


He believes all out efforts are being made to nullify the students struggle and negate people’s assertions by this combine of upper caste, politically and economically powerful interests.

If Telangana can destroy this lobby, good for every one in AP. Some how, I doubt it. They funded INC in the last elections.

That is why Hyderabad as UT is not a good idea at all. This lobby will be feeding Sonia Congress and looting AP.

[a_kumar]

If your endgame is (1) , then I have nothing further to add. And lets never bring development or governance into this discussion.

a_kumar garu,

I hope you see your folly here.

a) you are measuring the Telangana with a yardstick with which if measured, no other region/state will withstand the same test.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Also, you seem to be counting activism only in terms of statehood agitations, but even that is not accurate.

There are several things said about Potti sreeramulu on this forum. But he did not do it for power or money or CM ship. After 30 days of fasting, one crosses a point of no return and nothing short of great miracle will save he person. And it will progressively worsen. He fasted for 58 days and KCR couldn't stand two days without IV and Mutton biryani. (I am not saying that is how issues should be dealt with!) That maybe decades ago, but how many times were new states created?

More recently, all the activists (most of whom we like to dislike) fought for "rights of minorities", or "rights for tribals" or "compensation for dam displacements" or "Bhopal rights" etc. There are ample examples all around at how activists have fought for their cause (whether we agree with it or not is a different matter).

b) just because there was no intellectual backup/media highlight (before 2001) and KCR doing for political aspirations, the movement or grievances are suspect; If there wasn’t any ground feeling, there wouldn’t be KCR

Its called creating a market in management. That is why I called in "top-down". Like I narrated in previous post, there will always be ground feelings, just as in other areas. Even that was at a low by end of last century (2000) until KCR tried to ignite it.

c)Any such activism before a due time can also be accused that no due chance was given to the united leadership ( I mentioned this earlier).

Satya garu,

I wish to state this one more time and pray that it gets traction in our discussions.

Activism for governance/development *is not equal* to activism for statehood.

So how would activism for development/governance be interpreted as gunning for "united leadership"? If the activism was for statehood, then what you say would apply.

Let's invert your stand and ask this:

Which intellectual group / media or even politician before 2001 from non-Telangana showed any activism to correct the disparity, bring everything within the unified agenda, and address the grievances on the ground uniformly?

The answer would be none.

- Even after 2001 (when media found their new calling), no activist worth any salt spent a minute on this.

Now, I don't recall from before 2001, but after 2001, Prof Jayashankar from KU Warangal has been providing the horsepower for this movement. It may be minimal but is not certainly zero. It would be unfair to him for all his hard work to say this.

Again, this is activism for statehood! In all this time it wasn't for governance/development. Did he carry a media campaign on how useless the elected representatives were in bringing development/governance to be people between 2001-2004 term for example?. Nope.

Hope you see the distinction I am trying to make. The greatest trick KCR pulled on all T-vadis is to convince them
Activism for governance/development *is equal*to activism for statehood (aka. his CM ship).

[Muppalla]

a_kumar garu,

That was a fantastic post and a change from rhetoric. It is the perspective from a not politically connected like Coastal-AP or Rayalaseema but a voice from Northern-AP where there is similar backwardness.

[a_kumar]

Muppala garu, small nitpik . It is still coastal AP (just north coastal).

btw.. apparently our politicians want a Kalingarashtra that includes the three north coastal districts and a district in Orissa!!

[ShyamSP]

Muppala garu, small nitpik . It is still coastal AP (just north coastal).

btw.. apparently our politicians want a Kalingarashtra that includes the three north coastal districts and a district in Orissa!!

Those demands will come into to play if T-vadis escalate further. Rayalaseema people stand is that they are for United AP, otherwise they want Rayalaseema state (that include areas that create Takleef for KA and TN folks). Plus, they threw $500+ billion for capitol city and extra money for development.

GOI agrees to T demand and to other regions' demands, they go bankrupt.

[Muppalla]

Muppala garu, small nitpik . It is still coastal AP (just north coastal).

btw.. apparently our politicians want a Kalingarashtra that includes the three north coastal districts and a district in Orissa!!

I agree with your sentiment and North-Coast is a new term in existence for a decade now. That is the land of Gurajada Apparao who is one of the great modern writer and not the maoist type drivel.

My problem with T-Vadis only want to roll back until Nizam era when they have the oppurtunity to roll back to Kakateeya times. With their sheer numbers they can easy lead the whole state.

There is saying that you may be able to conquer world but setting right your own home is far more difficult. That is what is going on with Telugus at this time.

[Satya_anveshi]

Activism for governance/development *is not equal* to activism for statehood.

a_kumar garu,

The above seem to be your major argument.

Actually not. I don't agree with it. You cannot separate activism for governance/development with that of activism for statehood and eventually in case of an outside power impinging on basic fundamental rights the nationhood. Fortunately we are not dealing with an outside power.

It is the culmination of that activism. There is where we fundamentally disagree.

You seem to be making several assumptions here:

[*]That KCR is NOT doing this for governance/development
[*]That when Telangana happens, KCR is assured that he will be CM
[*]you are also ignoring the peculiarities of the Telangana struggle and background which provide that necessary right to seek statehood or establish statehood if the merger does not work out.
[*]Further, you are putting all the blame on the Telangana's doors

Regarding your other points:

More recently, all the activists (most of whom we like to dislike) fought for "rights of minorities", or "rights for tribals" or "compensation for dam displacements" or "Bhopal rights" etc. There are ample examples all around at how activists have fought for their cause (whether we agree with it or not is a different matter).

What type of activism did we see for Uttaranchal, Chattisgad, and Jharkhand? Who did fasting and how many died? Further, did the above activism have the same historical background as that of Telangana. Aren't you comparing apples to oranges here?

Its called creating a market in management.

Absolutely not. He did not create it. If I have to use management speak, he leveraged undercurrents that existed in Telangana. It is for the same reason all political parties marched to form alliances with KCR.

That is why I called in "top-down".

I don't see it as necessarily bad. It is not for nothing the region is seen as 'backward." The only other manifestation of 'bottom-up" movement took the form of Maoism. Obviously that is not in our interest.

Did he carry a media campaign on how useless the elected representatives were in bringing development/governance to be people between 2001-2004 term for example?. Nope.

Is that the only way of resolving or achieving good governance/development? He may have thought of leading from front and wished to bring that permanent transformation by making statehood as a platform.

Heck, my intention is not to justify KCR at all. My "good' feeling about him came out early in the thread. My arguments for Telangana go beyond KCR; limiting it with him is trivializing the major issue impacting the region for the decades/centuries to come.

[Muppalla]

Satya_anveshi garu,

For clarity purposes, I request you to put few points why you think Telangana needs a saperate state? Major Injustices and needs.

[RamaY]

I have also heard (not sure if it is true) that MIM(?) and Jamait-e-islami al Hind has given its support for Telangana.

Muslims constitute a signficant majority in the old city of Hyd, a geographical entity with more than 600 years of historical relevance. Hence they have 1 or 2 seats.

Christians need to be told that they will be entitled to their rights just as enshrined in Indian constitution.

Secularism, my dear secularism

[RamaY]

If Telangana can destroy this lobby, good for every one in AP. Some how, I doubt it. They funded INC in the last elections.

That is why Hyderabad as UT is not a good idea at all. This lobby will be feeding Sonia Congress and looting AP.

VijayK garu,

What makes you believe that a separate state or UT will weaken the super-rich? Do you think VH/Kaka/DS etc will not send money bags to INC once Telangana state is formed?