LCA news and discussion

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VijayKumarSinha
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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby VijayKumarSinha » 02 Jan 2010 01:45

Kartik wrote:because most other reports on the Tejas Mk2 do not indicate that a wing re-design will be carried out, because its a lot of work.

So you are saying that an article on a well known website that quotes the chairman of HAL ad verbatim in stating that Tejas Mk-2 will have larger wings is not sufficient proof?
So, who exactly , to whom and where has to state that wing sizes are going to be different to constitute as a sufficient proof for you?

I know that you know a hundred times more than me and I am here to learn from you, but really, can you show me these 'other reports' which actually state that Tejas Mk2 will not have wing redesign ?

Kartik wrote:yes, I was just drawing a comparison with the NG for some perspective - that its likely that we won't see a wing surface area increase. its a lot more work and would require more effort than what the timelines would allow, IMO.

I know what you meant by it originally, but what I meant to say was you know as well as I do that DRDO/HAL works in mysterious ways, besides what I am trying to say is if your perpetually unhappy customer “suggests” to you that they want bigger wings than you give them bigger wings.
Kartik wrote:I'll wait to see your original source before commenting on how authentic the article may be. half of what DDM writes is nothing more than un-educated guesses.

I know, but seriously, what is the point in finding that source now when quotes from HAL Chairman are not enough for you.

May be I should baccha nap ADA’s chief designer to say it and then present you with some bullu prints of mk-2 :mrgreen:

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 02 Jan 2010 03:04

Rahul M wrote:
Sid wrote:^^ Rahul, lets not jump the gun on every LCA critic. As humble LCA followers I think we should let DRDO/HAL prove its worth. Let their work speak for them.

BR has defended LCA's snail pace development for over a decade to see >10 prototypes fly in 10 years. At that time I used to go in nickkers, now it will be my kids turn to wear nickkers in few years time :D.

please compare with any other similar project worldwide and then tell me if the term snail pace is justified or not. the gripen for instance first flew in 1988 and achieved IOC in 1997, after 9 years.

Tejas first flew in 2001 and has completed all aerodynamic IOC requirements by 2009 itself (8 years) and is on the verge of achieving IOC in 2010 (9 years). this when saab has the history of more than 50 years of state-of-the-art fighter development behind it and also access to every resources and expertise in the western world. people should understand that these projects are not the engineering equivalent of making instant coffee. this is not a WW2 propeller driven fighter that goes from design board to frontline service in under 2 years. modern jet fighter development is time consuming business where one single misstep/accident can put you back by a couple of years (as happened with the CLAW sanctions). the projects can't hurry up suddenly just because forum warriors like us want it done according to our unrealistic expectations.


A point everyone should consider, before complaining about the time used. Things take time. Even developing a car takes 2-3 years.
I think people demand too much. How can you expect the gueys at HAL to produce worlds best fighter, on a shoe sting budget, and no prior history of developing Fighters (The people from Marut, were all gone, as there were no continuation of the programme).
Get real, and set realistic sucess paramaters. PersonallyI am happy if the LCA can make a use of itself at 50% highter cost, compared to any import.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Kartik » 02 Jan 2010 03:33

Rishirishi wrote:A point everyone should consider, before complaining about the time used. Things take time. Even developing a car takes 2-3 years.


they take much longer than 2-3 years Rishi..for instance, Ford is working since 2 years on the cars that will come out in 2015.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Sid » 02 Jan 2010 03:51

Rahul M wrote:
Sid wrote:^^ Rahul, lets not jump the gun on every LCA critic. As humble LCA followers I think we should let DRDO/HAL prove its worth. Let their work speak for them.

BR has defended LCA's snail pace development for over a decade to see >10 prototypes fly in 10 years. At that time I used to go in nickkers, now it will be my kids turn to wear nickkers in few years time :D.

please compare with any other similar project worldwide and then tell me if the term snail pace is justified or not. the gripen for instance first flew in 1988 and achieved IOC in 1997, after 9 years.

Tejas first flew in 2001 and has completed all aerodynamic IOC requirements by 2009 itself (8 years) and is on the verge of achieving IOC in 2010 (9 years). this when saab has the history of more than 50 years of state-of-the-art fighter development behind it and also access to every resources and expertise in the western world. people should understand that these projects are not the engineering equivalent of making instant coffee. this is not a WW2 propeller driven fighter that goes from design board to frontline service in under 2 years. modern jet fighter development is time consuming business where one single misstep/accident can put you back by a couple of years (as happened with the CLAW sanctions). the projects can't hurry up suddenly just because forum warriors like us want it done according to our unrealistic expectations.


my remarks were sarcastic (i.e. The nikker comment). Point was to let DRDO/HAL prove them self through their deeds. Once LCA will complete IOC this year all such comments will cease to exist just like "LCA can never fly"/"LCA cannot pull G's" etc etc.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby shiv » 02 Jan 2010 17:25

er Sid - your criticism of the LCA is well taken, but it is possible to have groups of Indians each of whom are generally good but make some mistakes - all adding up to a less than optimal result or longer time frame.

Sorry to nitpick:

"nikker"

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Gaur » 02 Jan 2010 18:03

^^
Shiv ji, I think he meant nikker as in shorts not the "knickers" you are referring to. :wink:

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby shiv » 02 Jan 2010 18:39

Gaur wrote:^^
Shiv ji, I think he meant nikker as in shorts not the "knickers" you are referring to. :wink:



It is the same thing sir. Same thing. It was always "knicker", never "nikker", or even "nicker". Only pointing out that making errors is possible for anyone - and it gets particularly hurtful when errors are committed in the LCA program or Agni launches. How we deal with errors done by Indians is important. Do we deal with sympathy? Do we deal harshly? Is there denial? All these issues play a role at every level in Indian society.

Dealing with things harshly often encourages denial. Empathy and understanding sometimes work better. Depends on the situation though - be we tend to judge our own more harshly than we judge others.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby karan_mc » 02 Jan 2010 19:54

Not Abandoned N-Tejas yet

they has been confirmation that Navy is interested in getting N-Tejas with high powered engines which Air force wants for Tejas MK-II rather then the Currently powered engines of GE.


I never read any thing about New engines for N-LCA ,can any one shed some light into this ?

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Rahul M » 02 Jan 2010 19:54

karan_mc wrote:Not Abandoned N-Tejas yet

they has been confirmation that Navy is interested in getting N-Tejas with high powered engines which Air force wants for Tejas MK-II rather then the Currently powered engines of GE.


I never read any thing about New engines for N-LCA ,can any one shed some light into this ?

same thing as IAF wants.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Amit J » 04 Jan 2010 03:07

Does anyone know if the LSP-3 has flown yet, this is the first LCA which will feature the MMRadar. Also can anyone revert with details on the achieved Flight envelope of the LCA (preferably with Links), as well as the MTOW/ weapons load. I eagerly await the IOC for the Mk1 and the first flight of the Naval Tejas prototype as well as hope that in Mar/May'10 the new engine will be finalised and it doesnt get marred and delayed by scams, issues, changing requirement.

Good Luck and God Speed - Team Tejas

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Nirmal » 04 Jan 2010 03:44

Just read in Deccan Herald of today's issue that LCA Trainer has been successfully tested (2 seater version) and N-LCA will take to air in 2011-next year. The trainer is lot similar to N-LCA being 2 seater. will try and locate the article and post the link.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby putnanja » 04 Jan 2010 03:52

Technology to aid missile-satellite link

...
Asked about the progress in the naval version of the light combat aircraft, Saraswat said the first flight of naval LCA was expected in 2011.

Along with imported MiG 29 K, the naval LCA is expected to be the mainstay aircraft on board the Indian Aircraft Carrier, under construction in Cochin shipyard. But though the IAC is likely to join the navy by 2014-15, it’s not certain if the DRDO would be able to deliver the naval LCA in time.

Saraswat claimed that the recent successful flight of the LCA trainer version in Bangalore is an important step towards realising the naval LCA as the naval version will also have two pilots unlike the single pilot version for the air force.

The naval LCA, being assembled at the moment, will have ski-jump facility so that it will be launched from the decks of the carrier. On the ballistic missile defence system, he said the next test was likely in September.

...

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby b_patel » 05 Jan 2010 06:29

Eurojet Bolsters Engine Offer for Indian LCA
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4441913&c=ASI&s=AIR
EADS is doing whatever it takes to win this engine order it seems.
Wonder if the offer of the single crystal turbine blade is enough to overcome the EJ2000's price Tag?

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby RKumar » 08 Jan 2010 22:37

Any update from chaiwala/panwala.... no update on official website since 12 Dec

will be bonus with LCH update ... hope I am not getting tooooo greedy :twisted:

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby aditp » 09 Jan 2010 13:05

being discussed in mil aviation thread. please continue there.
thanks.
Last edited by Rahul M on 09 Jan 2010 14:27, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: OT.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby sanjaychoudhry » 15 Jan 2010 07:45

Naval version of Tejas under water as decisions stay pending
http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report_na ... ng_1334928

The Nehruvian socialist incompetencies built into the administratve system are becoming a threat to national security. Nothing ever works on time and there are endless delays amdist a culture of irresponsibility.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby sum » 15 Jan 2010 08:33

sanjaychoudhry wrote:Naval version of Tejas under water as decisions stay pending
http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report_na ... ng_1334928

The Nehruvian socialist incompetencies built into the administratve system are becoming a threat to national security. Nothing ever works on time and there are endless delays amdist a culture of irresponsibility.

Really grim reading indeed.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Vivek K » 15 Jan 2010 09:11

Chalta hai prevails all over - Tanks do not have night vision eqpt (could buy more Arjuns), MRCA purchase is hanging for almost a decade now, Engine for LCA not yet decided yet .....

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Kartik » 15 Jan 2010 12:07

Honestly, the bureaucracy is really getting to become an impediment in every single sector in India..its getting so tiring to read about the really shocking incompetency that is built into Govt. decision-making. :(

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby vina » 18 Jan 2010 13:26

O ye Kaffirs in Bangalore, especially those in Outer Ring Road. Look and Dekho the Jehaaz-e-Kufr, al YellCeeYea do testing.

I saw it pull a pretty sharp knife edge turn and then came back again for a "dirty" pass with undercarriage down . And I heard multiple passes after that from my cabin ( "Cabin Boys" rule after all :mrgreen: :mrgreen: )

Pretty sharp. I dont recall seeing it pull such a sharp low radius turn earlier. Seems like the FBW has been upgraded/ cleared for higher 'g' loadings now , by the look of it.

But when are they flying the one with the radar installed (was that PV3 or something?).

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Anantz » 18 Jan 2010 14:23

Yup it was doing multiple low level and tight passes over the HAL airfield... That too with quite a loud bang! Surely must have pulled some pretty high 'G's as the radius was quite short and at quite a good speed. Reminded me of Aero India... Hope we hear something big soon! :twisted:

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby sum » 18 Jan 2010 14:25

vina wrote:O ye Kaffirs in Bangalore, especially those in Outer Ring Road. Look and Dekho the Jehaaz-e-Kufr, al YellCeeYea do testing.

I saw it pull a pretty sharp knife edge turn and then came back again for a "dirty" pass with undercarriage down . And I heard multiple passes after that from my cabin ( "Cabin Boys" rule after all :mrgreen: :mrgreen: )

Pretty sharp. I dont recall seeing it pull such a sharp low radius turn earlier. Seems like the FBW has been upgraded/ cleared for higher 'g' loadings now , by the look of it.

But when are they flying the one with the radar installed (was that PV3 or something?).

Had a nice view of the same. Were there two flying or just a single one ( lots of noise from multiple directions) ?

Had a hard time explaining that it was a Desi plane to my IT-vity friends who were convinced that a Indian plane couldnt be flying so sharply and with so much noise ( though had to endure some nasty jokes when i mentioned the GE engine) :roll: :roll:

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby RKumar » 18 Jan 2010 14:58

vina wrote:O ye Kaffirs in Bangalore, especially those in Outer Ring Road. Look and Dekho the Jehaaz-e-Kufr, al YellCeeYea do testing.

I saw it pull a pretty sharp knife edge turn and then came back again for a "dirty" pass with undercarriage down . And I heard multiple passes after that from my cabin ( "Cabin Boys" rule after all :mrgreen: :mrgreen: )

Pretty sharp. I dont recall seeing it pull such a sharp low radius turn earlier. Seems like the FBW has been upgraded/ cleared for higher 'g' loadings now , by the look of it.

But when are they flying the one with the radar installed (was that PV3 or something?).


i like it ...I like it ... I like it :twisted:

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby narayana » 18 Jan 2010 17:09

Vina ji,any news on current AoA of LCA,i think most of the flight envelope should be opened by now

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby rohitvats » 18 Jan 2010 22:05

^^^ Saw the jahaj-e-kufr (patent and copyright-Vina Garu) today afternoon.....amazing stuff.....single aircraft.....as for the tight turns and stuff....Vina garu..saw the plane pull the same stunts during the HAL Day...actually had bolted tha day from office to the road next to HAL Airport to have a dheko....... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

the best part is that the way west-east runway is alinged, the jagaj-e-kufr actually passes right over head on the landing run...awesome sight and the sound is music to these ears... :P

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby KrishG » 18 Jan 2010 22:46

rohitvats wrote:^^^ Saw the jahaj-e-kufr (patent and copyright-Vina Garu) today afternoon.....amazing stuff.....single aircraft.....as for the tight turns and stuff....Vina garu..saw the plane pull the same stunts during the HAL Day...actually had bolted tha day from office to the road next to HAL Airport to have a dheko....... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

the best part is that the way west-east runway is alinged, the jagaj-e-kufr actually passes right over head on the landing run...awesome sight and the sound is music to these ears... :P


How lucky! :evil: :evil: :evil:

Why isn't there a HAL Airport in South Bangalore ?? :(( :(( :((

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Dmurphy » 21 Jan 2010 23:00

Ajai Shukla's flash news: LCA to be displayed for the first time during Republic Day parade!

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby suraj p » 22 Jan 2010 00:04

Bingo!!!!!!!!!

Let us show the Smaug our Elephant!

Correct me if I am wrong - Usually isn't it the tradition that any new piece of military is displayed either after induction or almost close to induction into armed forces. Tejas is not yet inducted into Armed Forces.
BUT who cares... I feel proud and every one will cheer when sweet baby rolls out.. yeaaaaaaaaiiiiiii


But wait... will that be a model made of cardboard or flying Tejas.

I will never excuse Babus and politicos if they roll out that stupid cardboard trolleys representing states AND repeat the story like they did for Arjun.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Kartik » 22 Jan 2010 01:49

may just be the wooden mockup that they've displayed at AI-07 and AI-09. from a distance, will fool most into thinking that its the Tejas, but to the keen eye the differences can be spotted from a distance. the actual stance is different. either the nose gear is a little too long or because there is too much wood in the mid-region its got a pronounced MiG-23 like stance where the rear is closer to the ground than in actual Tejas.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby shiv » 22 Jan 2010 07:17

rohitvats wrote:^^^ Saw the jahaj-e-kufr (patent and copyright-Vina Garu) today afternoon.....amazing stuff.....single aircraft.....as for the tight turns and stuff....Vina garu..saw the plane pull the same stunts during the HAL Day...actually had bolted tha day from office to the road next to HAL Airport to have a dheko....... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

the best part is that the way west-east runway is alinged, the jagaj-e-kufr actually passes right over head on the landing run...awesome sight and the sound is music to these ears... :P


HAL and the IAF are against me. :cry: . Nothing flies when I get on the golf course. In fact aircraft are diverted away to other airfields when they know I am there.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby asprinzl » 22 Jan 2010 08:29

Doc,
I think you got it completely wrong. HAL and DRDO are pro-you. They don't want to distract you when you are out golfing. So very nice of them.
Avram

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby krishnan » 22 Jan 2010 10:29

I think they are confident enough to do a fly past. We might well see 3 of them.

Mean while LCA completes another 13 test flights. :)

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby sum » 22 Jan 2010 11:00

LCA out in full glory right now.

All jingoes( in vicinity of HAL), heads heavenwards please

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby pralay » 22 Jan 2010 11:01

http://www.ada.gov.in/Others/MoreCurrentNews/morecurrentnews.html

LCA-Tejas has completed 1280 Test Flights successfully. (21-Jan-10).

* LCA has completed 1280 Test Flights successfully
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-129,PV3-191,LSP1-54,LSP2-125,PV5-1).
* 191st flight of Tejas PV3 occurred on 20th Jan 10.


just 13 flights in 40 days :( :x

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby symontk » 22 Jan 2010 11:04

Did something close to cobra acrobatics, went up fast and then dropped down with tail and then turned back

Saw over the Intel campus

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby krishnan » 22 Jan 2010 11:05

I think PV 1,2,3 will take part in the fly past

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Venu » 22 Jan 2010 12:24

symontk wrote:Did something close to cobra acrobatics, went up fast and then dropped down with tail and then turned back

Saw over the Intel campus


Looks like our fledgling is stretching its wings. Can some take a snap of it and post it here. We don't mind even if it's not so clear.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Amit J » 22 Jan 2010 13:32

sum wrote:LCA out in full glory right now.

All jingoes( in vicinity of HAL), heads heavenwards please


Last week in bangalore was riding a bike on the Outer Ring Road and saw a brand new Tejas coming in to land at the HAL Airport, infact it flew right overhead, it was amazing as the fighter was flying real low while passing overhead and it looked like a new fighter with brand new paint job and all. Last Jan saw the MKI doing manoveres overhead @ Aero India while riding the bike as well

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Singha » 22 Jan 2010 13:33

delta winged planes do have an ability to raise the nose and fly really slow just above stall speed. recall the famous pokhran firepower demo in late 80s wherein two Mirage2000 flew like this, with a westland wapiti in between? oldies will recall that morning....I nearly soiled my shorts at the sight of 4 Jags coming in hard and scoring a direct first pass hit with rockets on a model enemy camp. there were also Mig27s and Mig21s dropping bombs, rockets, durandals.....due to massive smoke clouds the piece-de-resistance which was a napalm attack got cancelled.

PM Rajiv was there.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby nachiket » 22 Jan 2010 13:49

symontk wrote:Did something close to cobra acrobatics, went up fast and then dropped down with tail and then turned back



Sounds more like a tail slide!! Can it actually do it? :shock:


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