Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

RamaP · Post by **RamaP** » 06 Jan 2010 12:05

There is indeed a striking resemblance between TSPA/ISI and the Nazi Germany/SS. Nazi Germany was full of anti-semite hatred and a bizarre aryan supremacist mindset. In TSPA, even the most liberal "intellectuals" are full of Anti-India hatred which becomes evident in a few moments after initiating a conversation with them. For e.g Just watch any India-Pak debate in any of the JNU chaap English media.

Even the Imperial Japan was similarly blood thirsty during world war 2. It ultimately took two atomic explosions on the Japanese mainland to change this mentality.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 06 Jan 2010 12:25

This is an interesting read. Written by a TFTA army regiment commander who has retired recently. His last engagement was in the home town of Baitullah Mehsood. Presumably, he did some fighting with this Mehsood.

But what is striking is his fairly unconflicted admiration for Mehsood and the Taliban. You can almost hear this man say that the Talibunnies are not bad after all. Only the Dec. 4 Pindi mosque attack that nailed (no pun) his Peshawar army boss' only son has given takleef to this Paki.

Fighting the Pakistan enemy
Atta Rasul Malik
http://thefrontierpost.com.pk/News.aspx?ncat=ar&nid=879

Few months back I have said good bye to uniform. But my men, my Regiment is still there in Makeen, home town of Baitullah Mehsood, a village in South Waziristan. Baitullah Mehsood, who was accidentally killed by America in drone attack on August 5, 2009, was beyond doubt a “man” of our adversaries. However, as far as I remember by and large he was a good enemy. He was brave, man of words and excellent in negotiations. Quite often he was hung in between lust of money and power on one side and love of Pakistan the opposite.

However, his grading as chieftain of Mehsood tribe is low. He motivated young boys even from his own tribe to explode (suicide bombing) to deter his enemies. To me such a crime committed by chieftain of a tribe is unforgivable because clan leader, like President of the country is fatherly figure. This was one aspect where Baitullah did not have argument once confronted in private.

I am soldier and appreciate soldierly qualities. Taliban are brave and excellent fighters. I always told my fellow officers and soldiers to fight them like warriors, an old tradition of fighting and same taught by our Prophet (PBUH). Kill those who fight you, no “collateral damage” even if the cost is high. Kill them but don’t humiliate them. Taliban may not deserve life but deserve respect. No collective punishment, this is wrong in 21st century. Let the bunch of great warriors, Mahsood tribe know, their chieftains don’t represent them well and Pak army is not carried by sheer revenge.

In fact these were the instructions/teaching of my veteran unit officer who happens to be the Corps Commander of western front, Lt Gen Masood Aslam. Taliban, Pakistani Taliban or in fact Pakistan Dushman Taliban, have caused great loss to international peace in general and people and state of Pakistan in particular. They have inflicted huge losses to Pak Army both in men and material even they attacked GHQ. But attack on GHQ, to my mind was not a big issue. Our enemies selected important target and performed well, though their performance could not be compared with Pakistan Army’s extraordinary act of bravery while attacking at Taliban HQ at Peochar, Swat. At few occasions, I was extremely sad i.e. during burial of Shaheed General Javed Sultan while seeing the face of his old father, Feb 7, 2008, Peshawar suicide bombing 29th October, 2009, and now at Lakki Marwat bombing Jan 1, 2010, where hundreds of poor innocent people lost their lives.

But one incident has really moved me and forced me to think differently, killing of young boys in mosque at Parade Lane on Dec 4, 2009. That day, I remember, I told my mother; Mom General Masood, my unit officer’s only son has been killed while offering Friday prayer in mosque. My mother wept and wept bitterly. She knew this was a terrible loss for any father at this age. However, my grief, my line of thought was different. The way young ones were killed in mosque was more tragic than the killing itself. Clung to mosque floor with their eyes wide open unable to even cry for help were sprayed with bullets.

Oh custodian of Islam what have you done? Among them was Hashim Masood, the only son of Gen Masood. I believe if Baitullah Masood was alive even he would have not tolerated this limitless brutality of his men. Many fathers have lost their only son during this war of terror. So many families totally ruined. Each tale is worthy of mourning but Gen Masood case is different. He has been fighting Taliban like a gentleman, giving them a clean fight, continuously warning to troops no collateral damage, no collective punishment. So my grief and question is why Taliban have foul played and continue to play foul even today? What should Pakistan Army do? Who is guilty of abetment to Taliban will be analyzed and responded later. Issue at the moment is how to deal with front man i.e. Taliban? Can some one help teach Taliban, ethics of war or suggest ways how to build patience of Pak Army not to respond in same coin?

sum · Post by **sum** » 06 Jan 2010 12:45

They have inflicted huge losses to Pak Army both in men and material even they attacked GHQ. But attack on GHQ, to my mind was not a big issue. Our enemies selected important target and performed well,

Wah, and the PA is supposed to be at "war" with the Taliban?

Only thing missing is for the fine TSPA commander to pen a poem in memory of the Taliban.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 06 Jan 2010 12:56

jrjrao wrote:This is an interesting read. Written by a TFTA army regiment commander who has retired recently. His last engagement was in the home town of Baitullah Mehsood. Presumably, he did some fighting with this Mehsood.

But what is striking is his fairly unconflicted admiration for Mehsood and the Taliban. You can almost hear this man say that the Talibunnies are not bad after all. Only the Dec. 4 Pindi mosque attack that nailed (no pun) his Peshawar army boss' only son has given takleef to this Paki.

Fighting the Pakistan enemy
Atta Rasul Malik
http://thefrontierpost.com.pk/News.aspx?ncat=ar&nid=879

JRJ,

Its actually very simple - he admires everything and anything of traditional Pashtun warfare embodied in the Taliban, and loathes everything that is modern, like suicide bombing. He wants a nice, old-fashioned frontier war that runs according to the code of Pakhtunwali, not the total war of modern jihad.

Too bad Malik - the world is changing, you'd better get used to it.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Jan 2010 13:10

jrjrao wrote:Fighting the Pakistan enemy
Atta Rasul Malik
http://thefrontierpost.com.pk/News.aspx?ncat=ar&nid=879
. . . Oh custodian of Islam what have you done?

Whom is he addressing ? Is it KSA or Pakistan itself ?

Can some one help teach Taliban, ethics of war or suggest ways how to build patience of Pak Army not to respond in same coin?

Haven't the Taliban been taught by Colonel Imam and the like of the Pakistani Army ? Haven't they learnt their doctrines, tactics etc. from the PA ? Didn't PA rejoice when Lt. Saurabh Kalia was savaged and Maj. Viswanathan's body was booby-trapped ? PA even refused to accept the bodies of regular Pakistani soldiers in 1965 & 1998. The bodies of 9 slain terrorists are still lying in a Mumbai morgue because Pakistan disowns its citizens. For them, the task of attacking the kufr is all that matters, not dignity and when the AQAM is paying back in their own coin (being more pious than the PA, they are paying back even better), they are whining. Achh thoo.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 06 Jan 2010 13:16

Suicide bomber targets Pakistani Army in Kashmir

A suicide bomber killed three security personnel as he attempted to get inside an Army barracks in the Tararrkhal region in Pakistan-held Kashmir.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 06 Jan 2010 13:20

Good diagnosis, Johann.

Also, I wondering that this man deserves some tiny bit of credit because at least he is blaming that Pindi mosque bum on the Taliban. This is in contrast to those ridiculous RAPE boys and girls in Isloo, who IIRC, when their college canteen got bombed recently, and their fellow students were dead but still not cold, ran out on the streets to burn down Amrikaa.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 06 Jan 2010 13:21

Pak always dream about Panipat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atUD_4RAe5g

Fighting the Pakistan enemy
Atta Rasul Malik
http://thefrontierpost.com.pk/News.aspx?ncat=ar&nid=879

JRJ,

Its actually very simple - he admires everything and anything of traditional Pashtun warfare embodied in the Taliban, and loathes everything that is modern, like suicide bombing. He wants a nice, old-fashioned frontier war that runs according to the code of Pakhtunwali, not the total war of modern jihad.

Too bad Malik - the world is changing, you'd better get used to it.
jrjrao wrote:This is an interesting read. Written by a TFTA army regiment commander who has retired recently. His last engagement was in the home town of Baitullah Mehsood. Presumably, he did some fighting with this Mehsood.

But what is striking is his fairly unconflicted admiration for Mehsood and the Taliban. You can almost hear this man say that the Talibunnies are not bad after all. Only the Dec. 4 Pindi mosque attack that nailed (no pun) his Peshawar army boss' only son has given takleef to this Paki.

Fighting the Pakistan enemy
Atta Rasul Malik
http://thefrontierpost.com.pk/News.aspx?ncat=ar&nid=879

arun · Post by **arun** » 06 Jan 2010 14:06

More of the usual.

Pakistani’ origin individuals shamelessly using Indian’s to hide behind the South Asian label and make up for the general lack of appeal of the terms Pakistan and Islam have with the non-Islamic swaths of the world.

For a group of people who wanted nothing whatsoever to do with India, Pakistani origin individuals certainly have no takleef in use of the Indian cachet as a prop to make up their shortcomings

:

Muslim-Hindu punk rockers hit a nerve or two

Russell Contreras, Associated Press
Tuesday, January 5, 2010

Artwork from the Punjab state of India decorates the Ray family home. A Johann Sebastian Bach statue sits on a piano. But in the basement - cluttered with wires, old concert flyers and drawings - 25-year-old Arjun Ray is fighting distortion from his electric guitar.

For this son of Indian immigrants, trained in classical violin and raised on traditional Punjab music, getting his three Pakistani American bandmates in sync is the goal on this cold New England evening. Their band, the Kominas, is trying to record a punk rock version of the classic Bollywood song, "Choli Ke Peeche" ("Behind the Blouse"). ………………………

The Kominas, who sing mostly in English, now are trying to break the image they are just a "Muslim punk band," especially since one of their founders, Ray, is Hindu. On their next album, Ray said the band will have songs in Hindi..................................

SF Gate

arun · Post by **arun** » 06 Jan 2010 14:10

So much for the self proclaimed and much ballyhooed sense of hospitality towards guests that is supposed to be present in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Even momin guests from ummah lands with the appellation Islamic in their country titles are not beyond being subjected to downright inhospitable acts in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Kidnapped diplomats still untraced

Wednesday, January 06, 2010
By Javed Aziz Khan

PESHAWAR: Kidnapping of the Afghan and the Iranian diplomat from the city is still shrouded in mystery as the government has failed to recover them despite a passage of over one-and-a-half years.

Afghanistan’s ambassador-designate to Pakistan, Abdul Khaliq Farahi, and Iranian Consulate’s third secretary, Heshmatollah Attarzadeh, have been missing for the past 16 and 14 months, respectively. The high-profile kidnappings stunned the people, as in the past foreigners felt safe in the historic city of Peshawar. …………………………

A senior police official admitted that there was no progress in the two cases. “There is no significant progress in the two cases of kidnapping. One thing is clear that they are beyond the reach of the police,” the official requesting anonymity, told The News. ……………………….

The News

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Jan 2010 14:31

Defence body takes note of attempts to disturb 'strategic balance' in South Asia

the cabinet’s Defence Committee on Tuesday underscored that Pakistan would never allow its security to be jeopardised.

The meeting was held in the wake of recent statements by the Indian army chief . . the committee said Pakistan’s defence forces and its strategic and conventional capabilities would continue to be strengthened.

Pakistan needs to justify its arms build-up especially when its economic situation is dire and it is begging for funds from all conceivable donors. The Indian General's statement comes as an excuse for it. The hysteria we are seeing from Tareq Majid, Kayani, Zafar Hilaly, Maleeha Lodhi, Mushahid 'Mandela' Hussain et al is all to justify its upcoming increased military spending. Besides, it helps to get new arms from PRC especially when the Indian Chief has linked PRC & TSP. The hysteria also helps to smother world-opinion when it eventually gets Han-class SSNs from PRC. It also helps to reinforce in Western minds that the Pakistani behaviour is a natural fall-out of its deep-seated fear of a rapidly growing Indian military. The Pakistani calculation could be that such a Western perception could lead to receiving some more arms transfers from them and also help bring some pressure on India to halt its purchase spree.

Rishi · Post by **Rishi** » 06 Jan 2010 15:00

Just a minor neujflash

B. Raman guru is now on twitter:

http://twitter.com/RamanThinkTank

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 06 Jan 2010 15:03

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100106/ap_ ... s_pakistan

MUZAFFARABAD, Pakistan – A suicide bomber struck an army facility in the Pakistan-controlled portion of Kashmir on Wednesday, killing at least three soldiers and wounding 11 others in the latest violence to strike the country.

Time for payback.

sum · Post by **sum** » 06 Jan 2010 15:37

pgbhat wrote:Suicide bomber targets Pakistani Army in Kashmir
A suicide bomber killed three security personnel as he attempted to get inside an Army barracks in the Tararrkhal region in Pakistan-held Kashmir.

Why are the vermin attacking their handlers in PoK? Dont they depend on the goodwill of the TSPA to even operate in PoK?

KaranR · Post by **KaranR** » 06 Jan 2010 15:38

SSridhar wrote:Pak cabinet decides to strengthen its defence to maintain 'strategic balance'

So, one can expect China to sell a couple of Han-class SSNs. There have been frequent high level PN officer visits to China lately. Of course, the intended purpose was to take charge of the Chines-built frigate. Recent expressions of India's concerns on the Chinese arms deals with Pakistan come to mind.

Why don’t the Americans just hand over the money directly to the Chinese? After all Pakis are bank corrupt. Any money spent on equal equation to India in the arms race, comes from USA as gratitude for fighting this phony war against the invisibleTaliban.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Jan 2010 15:45

Zardari's Kashmir antics - Nirupama Subramanian

He said Pakistan would carry the late Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto’s pledge of the “thousand-year war” for the “liberation” of Kashmir, describing it however as more as an “ideological war.”{So, at the highest level of Pakistan, it is now accepted that it is not irredentism but Islam that is at the core of the issue. It is not the so-called denial of rights to self-determination. It is not plebiscite. It is not UN resolutions. It is not water or the buffer that must separate India and Pakistan.}

He even offered the catchy slogan of “Kashmir Khappay,” a modification of his now famous “Pakistan Khappay” (we want Pakistan)

His friendly attitude towards India combined with his initial statements on the Kashmir issue offended the traditionalists in the Pakistani civil-military establishment, and are widely seen as a reason for the crisis in which he now finds himself.{Those who are the votaries of 'Aman ki Asha' should ponder over this} Mr. Zardari’s speech in PoK was clearly meant to appease influential sections of the Pakistani establishment who have been annoyed with him.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 06 Jan 2010 16:34

US asks Pakistan to hunt down and extradite Illiyas Kashmiri

ISLAMABAD: Suspecting the hand of Harkat-ul-Jihad al-Islami commander Ilyas Kashmiri in coordinating the suicide strike on the top secret CIA base in eastern Afghanistan, US authorities have asked Pakistan to hunt down and extradite the dreaded terrorist.

A media report here said that an investigation had revealed that the attack was planned in Pakistan's restive North Waziristan tribal region and the bomber is believed to have been sent by Kashmiri, the fugitive chief of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir chapter of HuJI.

Rishi · Post by **Rishi** » 06 Jan 2010 17:19

It was decided that there would be no operation in North Waziristan due to foreign pressure.

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s political and military leadership on Wednesday decided not to adopt an apologetic posture towards India after being threatened by Indian army chief General Deepak Kapoor.

The decision was taken by the Federal Cabinet’s Defence Committee in Islamabad.

The committee decided to bring Pakistan’s diplomatic and military policies in line with India’s aggressive stance towards the country.

It was also updated on the latest security situation in North and South Waziristan by top military officials.

It was decided that there would be no operation in North Waziristan due to foreign pressure.

Eh? Does this mean that there is no NWA op due to Gen Deepak Kapoor's statement? Or no NWA Ops due to Amirkhan ungli?

sum · Post by **sum** » 06 Jan 2010 17:29

Eh? Does this mean that there is no NWA op due to Gen Deepak Kapoor's statement? Or no NWA Ops due to Amirkhan ungli?

Isn't Amrika ungli geared towards N.Waziristan operations? Why should Amir-khan be quoted as a reason for no action?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 06 Jan 2010 18:02

In the porki newspaper called "The Noose" please note the new reference to J&K. Is it a faux pas, what with duspercenti calling for a thousand year jeeehaad!

Blasts, gunshots in Indian Kashmir's summer capital: police

SRINAGAR: Some militants on Wednesday hurled grenades and opened fire in Srinagar, the summer capital of Indian-administered Kashmir, police and witnesses said.

"The attack has sparked panic in the busy market area," he said, adding that one or two militants were reported have entered a hotel.

Militants, India Kashmir, Indian-administered Kashmir....What's next, International border (instead of LOC) between the two Kashmirs?

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 06 Jan 2010 18:27

Suspected drone attack kills 13 in N Waziristan

Two suspected U.S. drone missile strikes have killed at least 13 people in volatile North Waziristan near the Afghan border, Geo News reported Wednesday.

Another strike occurred as locals were retrieving bodies from the rubble of the house, killing five people. The identities of those killed in the attacks were unknown.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 06 Jan 2010 18:30

It was decided that there would be no operation in North Waziristan due to foreign pressure.

Translation: Due to aggressive posturing and pressure from India there will be no NW operation. Amrikhan please to rein in the SDREs if you want your money's worth of dog & pony show in Waziristan.

In short, expect another S-e-S.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Jan 2010 18:39

Rishi wrote:It was decided that there would be no operation in North Waziristan due to foreign pressure.
It was decided that there would be no operation in North Waziristan due to foreign pressure.
Eh? Does this mean that there is no NWA op due to Gen Deepak Kapoor's statement? Or no NWA Ops due to Amirkhan ungli?

sum wrote:Isn't Amrika ungli geared towards N.Waziristan operations? Why should Amir-khan be quoted as a reason for no action?

Dilbu wrote:Translation: Due to aggressive posturing and pressure from India there will be no NW operation. Amrikhan please to rein in the SDREs if you want your money's worth of dog & pony show in Waziristan.

IMHO, it means that NWA hosts AQAM elements who are in Pakistan's supreme strategic interests, especially after the recent SWA operation. They cannot be disturbed now. The US should not expect us to launch SWA-type operations there. The US must understand Pakistan's genuine security concerns, which are primarily with its eastern giant which is currently trying to upset the strategic balance. Pakistan will have to use every resource at its disposal. That is what it means.

sum · Post by **sum** » 06 Jan 2010 18:48

Translation: Due to aggressive posturing and pressure from India there will be no NW operation. Amrikhan please to rein in the SDREs if you want your money's worth of dog & pony show in Waziristan.

In short, expect another S-e-S.

One can almost smell the impending next SeS...lots of signals are anyways emerging. "Aman ki Asha", NSA saying more troop reduction is possible, small trial balloons being floated in media about J&K, Sageer Ahmed report etc etc.

Rishi · Post by **Rishi** » 06 Jan 2010 18:53

Basically using India (and her belligerence) as a convenient excuse to not go into NWA.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Jan 2010 19:01

Dawood Ibrahim is a credible threat to US interests: CRS Report

"Dawood Ibrahim's D-Company, a 5,000-member criminal syndicate operating mostly in Pakistan, India, and the United Arab Emirates, provides an example of the criminal-terrorism fusion model," the Congressional Research Service said in its latest report.

"Reportedly with assistance from the Pakistan government's intelligence branch, the ISI, D-Company launched a series of bombing attacks on March 12, 1993, killing 257 people," the report said.

"During this time period, some say D-Company began to finance the LeT's activities, use its companies to lure recruits to LeT training camps, and give LeT operatives use of its smuggling routes and contacts," the CRS said.

"The US governments contend that D-Company has found common cause with the Al Qaeda and shares its smuggling routes with that terrorist group," the report said.

"Lending his criminal expertise and networks to such terrorist groups, he is capable of smuggling terrorists across national borders, trafficking in weapons and drugs, controlling extortion and protection rackets, and laundering ill-gotten proceeds, including through the abuse of traditional value transfer methods, like hawala," said the report.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 06 Jan 2010 19:02

Basically using India (and her belligerence) as a convenient excuse to not go into NWA.

Which begs the question why did India decide to give out such a statement at this juncture knowing really well that pukes will make this claim. It certainly shakes the amirkhani applecart in fak-ap. Gurus please explain.

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 06 Jan 2010 19:39

Timing is most important , a simpe logic is make the TSP back out of NW and have unkil run the show in NW

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 06 Jan 2010 20:19

Dilbu wrote:
Basically using India (and her belligerence) as a convenient excuse to not go into NWA.
Which begs the question why did India decide to give out such a statement at this juncture knowing really well that pukes will make this claim. It certainly shakes the amirkhani applecart in fak-ap. Gurus please explain.

Possiblity:
1. Massa launches 'Chaman ki Asha', hoping that Indian troop reductions in Kashmir and sweet nothings in Indian and Paki newspapers will soothe the paki jernails to moving more troops into FATA.
2. Overwhelming negative response of mango junta tells nai dilli that political capital is going down the drain, more so after the SES disaster taken up at massa's instance.
3. To mitigate this, COAS says a few things.
4. The pakis have been wanting an excuse for the last 3-4 years to stop the operation in FATA. 26/11, embassy bombings were an attempt at provoking inida. The pakis fear a double whammy, if the pak fauj stays in FATA for long:
(i) The mango pak fauji will revolt at killing pious fellow biradhers.
(ii) The pashtoons, armed to the teeth now, might unite and do a Bangladesh / Pahstoonistan on the pakjabis.

But never mind, another round of painful GUBO followed by money being dispensed to the Jernails later, the pakis will be back in waziristan. (By then Haqqani would have relocated to pindi from Karachi

)

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 06 Jan 2010 20:24

India is equally as culpable as the west in allowing pakistan to become a nuclear power.

What stopped India from taking out Khushab, Kahuta and Karachi with the Israelis when that deal on no mutual attack on each other's installations was not there? Don't tell me massa would have taken out Inida - massa was worried about only its cold war fight, it let the N weapons problem grow as a sideshow. India could have taken that sideshow out of the picture altogether.

Even today, the pakistanis are more than doubling their N weapons production capability. They are graduating from Uranium gun design warheads to Plutonium implosion warheads - IN PLAIN SIGHT. What are we doing today?

Words are indeed cheap, and we indians find it convenient to point fingers at others for what they did not do, when will we identify what we did not do hain ji?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 06 Jan 2010 20:44

That TSP is bang-e-rupt is no secret. By now,am sure they would have imported USD printing tech too from the North Koreans alongside No dong missile parts.

Unkil leaving Af-Pak (and that day ain't far off, IMHO, given the khanate's dire economic situation - remember Hillary telling the porkis "Americans are asking why we're spending money bailing out Pakistan when that money could better be spent bailing out California..."?) will also mean unkil pulling the USD plug on TSP.

PRC could try to prop up TSP albatross for as long as the People's lepubric of cheena isn't revealed to be the Ponzi republic of cheena only.

For me, 'follow the money' is the mantra, the key, to understanding even TSP. As long as the money keeps flowing in, TSP will continue to exist.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 Jan 2010 20:53

Rishi wrote:Just a minor neujflash

B. Raman guru is now on twitter:

http://twitter.com/RamanThinkTank

A link on Raman garu's twitter....

good job
by B Raman on Jan 03, 2010 04:17 PM Permalink | Hide replies

finally delhi police has become a lil smart..
report them as escaped and eliminate them in an encounter. good going!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 06 Jan 2010 21:00

The greatest thing to come out of "Jehad battleground - Pakistan", is the loss of the sheen of the pak fauj. A casual look at what the Jehadis see today:

1. The jehadis are more pious than the whiskey swilling pakjabi pak faujis
2. The jehadis can kill and main the pak fauj just as they did the kufaar.
3. The pak fauj has a penchant for surrender if the officer core feels the heat, as amply demonstrated by numerous incidents over the years in operations with the jehadis and talibs.
4. The pak fauj is in bed with massa.
5. The jehadis themselves are frustrated at a severely declined success rate of killing the kufaar, so their itching need to turn inwards to take out the munafiqs (who are to be blamed for their failures - how will allah allow them to succeed, if they themselves have impurities within hain ji?)
6. Even though the politicians are corrupt (and Zardari is seen as being both morally and financially corrupt

), the pak fauj can't do a coup, because massa has the pak fauj by the ball$.

How long will the martial pak fauj continue to be the masters of the jehadis when the pak fauj is itself mortal hain ji?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Jan 2010 21:23

Gagan wrote: What stopped India from taking out Khushab, Kahuta and Karachi

True hermaphroditism with male external genitalia?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 06 Jan 2010 21:27

You brought the term 'cajons' into our lingo didn't you saar?

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 06 Jan 2010 21:33

Regarding the link to the Long War Journal posting on TSP, I believe one of the comments there needs to be highlighted. I'm talking about the note made by "Omar", presumably from TSP...

Another terrible bombing, this time in Lakki Marwat. It seems the suicidal maniac was headed for a peace committee meeting but could not get there due to heavy security, so he hit the wall of a playground and went to meet the 72 virgins short of his final target. Sadly, there was a volleyball game going on in the playground and there were a lot of spectators. TV is saying 70 or more are dead and the death toll could rise.

Since this particular tragedy has struck poor pathans in a small town, its not going to register for too long on the minds of the Pakistani elite, who will no doubt be back to discussing blackwater safehouses within two days max. But while some vague sense of outrage and disorientation still exists, I am going to throw out some random thoughts and make some predictions...the purpose is to invite all of you to make some predictions of your own. Predictions are what distinguish science from fantasy. Social change is too complex to be modeled like the physical sciences (at least at this point) but still, unless we can make a prediction, our models are worthless...so here goes.

1. I think the neo-wahabi paradigm which lies at the heart of the jihadi operation in Pakistan (the network obviously extends into Afghanistan and other places and crucial sources lie in Saudi Arabia, but the largest physical node is in Pakistan) is not compatible with "normal" existence in the globalized world and its going to be slowly and painfully pushed further and further away from the mainstream. This process of separating it from its "mainstream" supporters like the high command of the Pak army is going to accelerate. Friends who believe the army is irreversibly pro-jihadi are not correct. The army WAS pro-jihadi and is still terribly confused about whether they can save "good jihadis" for future use against India , but they will be pushed to give them up by circumstances. The army and the jihadis will stand against each other one day. GHQ may not know it, but one day it will even fight against old friends like Masood Azhar and Hafiz Saeed. Maybe not in weeks or months, but certainly in years.

2. Recurrent waves of anti-Americanism and "paknationalism" will confuse the process. Old Nationalists will struggle with their 60 years worth of anti-indian training with the need to make an accomodation not just with the Indian state but with our own Indian heritage.Old leftists will struggle to align their anti-imperialist models and their issues with capitalism with the need to cooperate with the imperial war machine.Swarms of ex-foreign secretaries and retired generals will display their utter confusion on TV for many months to come. But the fact is, the jihadi paradigm is retrogressive, indiscriminately violent, and unable to deliver relief from ANY of the multiple real grievances and conflicts that various classes and groups have against others all over the world. All this sound and fury will blow over and most of these people will end up compromising deeply held beliefs to deal with this menace. Being human, they will do so without necessarily admitting it even to themselves, but in whatever messy form, they will do it.

3. Many respected commentators will take a while to overcome their own habits of automatic self-censorship. Lesser known commentators will push the envelope first and better known ones will step forward more aggressively only after they realize that A, B or C can actually be said without the heavens falling. Some friends will be surprised at how dramatically the tone will shift from hunting for Jews and Hindus under every bed to openly identifying the jihadis AND their fellow travellers as a terrorist menace that will have to be dealt with before we can come back to the arguments about imperialism and "the metropolitan XYZ"...in other words, before we can become just another "normal country", stuggling with all the issues raised by the existence of 7 billion unequally placed humans on one planet...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jan 2010 22:14

Gagan, Taking out Khasab(btw came operational after the 1998 tests), Kahtua etc dont matter as there is noting ther useful except a make believe Xerox Khan's centrifuge program. They get their supplies from PRC. Plain and simple. On the contrary the Pakis would have attacked BARC. So its tradeoff. Attack a shell and destroy nothing and in retalition lose defintie capability? You tell what would you do?
There should be some circumpsection in rhona/dhona.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 06 Jan 2010 23:07

>>I am happy somebody else is also seeing the linkages between Nazi Germany and Pakistan

SSridhar, that comment in longwarjournal was made by a former senior BR member.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 06 Jan 2010 23:51

Am surprised that we have not seen a coup with the Pakistani Army itself - One side pro something(dunno what it is) vs. pro Taliban
Or has that happened and we don't know

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 07 Jan 2010 00:06

ramana wrote:Gagan, Taking out Khasab(btw came operational after the 1998 tests), Kahtua etc dont matter as there is noting ther useful except a make believe Xerox Khan's centrifuge program. They get their supplies from PRC. Plain and simple. On the contrary the Pakis would have attacked BARC. So its tradeoff. Attack a shell and destroy nothing and in retalition lose defintie capability? You tell what would you do?
There should be some circumpsection in rhona/dhona.

In IAF History thread there was some discussion on it, it seems that PAF could have attacked, but it would have been at great risk. On other hand, attacking targets in Pakistan is easier for IAF and it should have been done. The failure to curtail pakistani nuclear program ultimately led to withdrawal of op parakram.