Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 15 Jan 2010 10:49

^^^ The Indo-Pak "peace NGO" sector is heavily bankrolled by the states (Indian, Pak, US and European)..These massive jamborees, conferences require money, and none of the sponsors (even IPCS, and certainly not Indo-Pak aman manch and the likes) have endowments that can conduct such lavish affairs..

But these are also subterfuge of signalling progress on "talks" without actually having to do anything concrete..

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Jan 2010 11:00

negi wrote:Pakistan's elite always look over their shoulders to compare themselves with India so while India has HINDI as its national language they yearn for URDU (for its Mughal origins) idiots that they are don't realize that Urdu is not even spoken by 10% of TSP population infact it is Punjabi ,pashto and sindhi which are main link languages. Fwiw Urdu originated somewhere around present day Lucknow and was nurtured by the nawabs and I guess a vast majority of the local populace stayed back in India.

In any case I believe that at the time of independence Urdu had become both the language of elements of the army as well as the court language in India. So there is no way "Pakistan" could have selected Punjabi, Sindhi or Bengali as a "national language".

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Jan 2010 11:18

To be able to put up just a facade of 'ratcheting up groundwork for eventual talks' thus keeping the enemy sufficiently tempted, while pursuing the Indian agenda of 'no talks' so long as Pakistan does not take visible, sincere and measurable steps against terror directed at India, requires enormous skill and steely determination to stay the course. Indian political leaders have time and again displayed deficiencies in these two areas. While bureaucracy, once given directions, will implement the policy to the last detail, the political leaders have invariably succumbed to pressure and have conceded more than even demanded by the enemy. I would therefore assume that sooner than later we can see India performing a somersault, claiming that the prolonged 'no talks' have begun to yield only diminishing returns.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Jan 2010 11:36

Selected NUGGETS of TFT

Sad story of Bank of Punjab

Reported in Jang (25 Nov 2009) Sheikh Afzal who was caught abroad for defrauding the Bank of Punjab of Rs 9 billion, pleaded guilty at the Supreme Court and said his elder brother Seth Yaqub put him up to it and took Rs 40 crores from the loot and was now safely abroad. Others who took money were: Dr Babar Awan of PPP Rs 50 lakh as fee and Rs 3.5 crore for getting the case quashed. President of the bank Hamesh Khan handed out Rs 50 crore as gifts; bank officer Haroon Aziz took Rs 5 crore and a house in Defence; ex-attorney general Malik Qayyum took Rs 2 crore; Sarfraz Merchant took Rs 2.80 crore; Waseem Sajjad took Rs 50 lakh as fee but his son Ali Waseem took Rs 75 lakh to get the case quashed; and Sharifuddin Pirzada took Rs 1.5 crore as fee and took Rs 1 crore to get the case quashed. (the Jaadugar from Jeddah who is a Syed and who advised all Prime Ministers and all dictators on how to mutilate the Constitution)

Minister’s breakable fast

According to daily Pakistan (3 Dec 2009) Sheikh Afzal of Haris Steel case stated that he gave over Rs 3 crore to Minister of Parliamentary Affairs Mr Babar Awan in Dubai in a posh hotel during the month of Ramzan. {AoA} When Afzal invited Awan to eat he excused himself saying he was fasting, but he was found later eating in the restaurant. Upon inquiry he said he had vomited which had broken his fast after which he was free to eat.

Qadianis did it!

Reported in Jang (25 Nov 2009) PPP leader Babar Awan said he was implicated wrongly in the scandal of Haris Steel handouts and the Qadianis were behind this campaign against him because he had devoted himself to the movement for the defence of Khatm-e-Nabuwwat (Finality of the Prophethood). According to Jinnah (27 Nov 2009) the international organisation that propagates Khatm-e-Nabuwwat took offence and told Mr Awan not to blame the Qadianis for his corruption.

Nawaz Sharif years {sic} for cricket

Reported in Nawa-e-Waqt (28 Nov 2009) PMLN leader Nawaz Sharif visited Lahore Gymkhana Cricket Club at Bagh-e-Jinnah and stated that he wanted to play a cricket match to bring back old days when he used to score big for the club. Chairman club Javed Zaman chided him by saying that whenever Nawaz Sharif was about to lose someone from the Punjab secretariat would appear with a file to sign and disrupt the game. Sharif retorted that while Javed rarely scored a 50, he often scored a hundred.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Jan 2010 11:43

From SUCH GUP (Rangudu had already posted one)

On the sidelines

Mush and our Min of Foreign Affairs found themselves at the same meet in Abu Dhabi a few days ago. They spent a considerable amount of time avoiding each other. On the sidelines, Mush had interesting exchanges with a few people. He confirmed that he is constantly in touch with “the boys” and he also told one inquisitive foreigner that “all the boys” were on board “all” of his initiatives, including the infamous negotiations leading to the NRO and the occasion when the riot act was read out to the chief adjudicator.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Jan 2010 12:03

seems to me TSP is run on the likes of a very large scale criminal, mafia and terrorist org.
informers, fall buys, capo's , street captains, thieves, gun runners, cops on the take....

is it even a real country or just a armed camp as Ramana sometimes says?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 15 Jan 2010 12:06

There is a YYY conspiracy against Afia

Aafia Siddiqui demands no Jewish jurors at attempted murder trial

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 988777.ece

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Jan 2010 12:52

From an article on Ancestry in TFT

It is common in our parts to mention or to ask about the pedigree of a person you have met for the first time. While the names will generally offer you a window into their claimed spiritual ancestry or religious leanings, their villages will tell you their mores and their more recent genealogy.

In my childhood I was told by my cousins that we were Mogul {Mongol}-Sheikh{Arab}, which to me implied that we were a mixed and motley crew. However, there was no mention of any Indian blood in the equation. Perhaps it was understood and didn’t need to be stated. . . culturally and ethnically our forbears remained intrinsically Indian. {That's the confusion and a matter of unending shame for Pakistanis}

Be that as it may, I was pretty sure that I was of a Mongol mix by the way my eyes slanted above my high cheekbones and the nose broadened at the bridge, but I was never convinced of the shaky Sheikh take, which even if true, always seemed a bit dodgy to me.

I got a reconfirmation of sorts of my Mongol ancestry at the birth of my first grandson. My son is married to a freckled red head Texan of Scottish descent, and the doctor delivering the baby who had never met my son asked if there was a Mongol in the family. My daughter in law said that the baby’s father was from Pakistan, but wanted to know why the question was asked. The doctor said that the baby had a Mongolian birth mark.

But our clan’s surname was Siddiqui, which meant that either we were distant relatives of the first Caliph of Islam or one of our ancestors was his devotee and had adopted the name. It could also have been a poor foot soldier of the clan that came to India with Mohammad Bin Qasim or some other such Arab, married a local woman and started the Siddiq line.

However, what is more probable is that when some of the population of India converted to Islam, they were looking for a replacement of the caste system which had overwhelmed their previous lives. They must have felt adrift without their erstwhile well-defined moorings. Like the Hindus, the novo Muslims of India had to be of some caste or the other.

The working and trade titles of butcher, baker and candle stick maker were no longer good enough for them. Not all of them could then become Nawabs (nabobs) or Khans. They had to feel at par with the Hindus and especially the Brahmins. Having or forging a link to past religious elites of Arabia or powerful rulers of the neighbouring area helped them do exactly that.

The immigrant population in Sind has mostly Arabic surnames like Syed, Siddiqui, Zaidi, Naqvi, Mehdi, Abbasi, Hussaini, Jaffery and many more. There are still a few names that are based on two words, some starting or ending with Mohammad, as is the norm with the unpretentious. {It was the UP-Delhiwallah Hidustani Mussalman who anointed themselves as inheritors of the Mughal legacy and considered themselves as the Custodian of Islam who had such pretensions. They were the mohajir refugees who considered themselves as more Pakistani than the natives of the Sind, the Punjab, Balochistan and Pakhtunkhwa}

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Jan 2010 12:58

http://www.thefrontierpost.com/News.asp ... ed&nid=305
And Pakistan is not what it was in 1971. It is now a nuclear power

Yes yes yes auntiji (or are you uncle-ji?). Yes. But India too is not what it was in 1971. India has now acquired some paagapanti. Now how would Pakistan like to be attacked by a nation of paagals with nukes? Why worry? You Pakis are not paagal no? Now pray to all your gods that India's pagalpanti takes a back seat.

animesharma · Post by **animesharma** » 15 Jan 2010 13:12

Prem wrote:Paki Musharraf keep smoking .
http://www.thefrontierpost.com/News.asp ... ar&nid=927
The likely intents from two fronts war
Patient . Raja Muhammad haan

The current trend to create rivalry between IA vs IAF/IN is new to me. Indian army is still and will be the biggest force in subcontinent.
I doubt their idea as a well thought strategy rather is intended to be for consumption of paki public. It gives immense pleasure to their psyche think enemy (no matter how strong it is) is divided hence the mighty marshal law still stand valid!

Beside by a combination of marshal law and this logic.. PN would have committed suicide by now (They did show similar symptoms a few years ago, by miss(ed)firing themself.)

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Jan 2010 13:17

This is a fantastic article by Khaled Ahmed completely exposing the Pakistani perfidy and agenda. I am posting this in full for posterity's sake ! Courtesey TFT.

Pakistan stands at some kind of a crossroads with its relationship with the United States. With the whole population and almost all the political parties poisoned with anti-Americanism, Pakistan has never looked more like an Arab state, hard in Islam and hard in its animus against the West in general and Americans in particular. The alliance with America is troubled and faces a breakdown as Pakistan becomes more and more isolationist in the region and the world.

The immediate cause for concern is the ‘strategic clash’ between the two on the policy of fighting terrorism. The US targets Al Qaeda and its allies, the Taliban. Pakistan doesn’t target Al Qaeda and divides the Taliban linked to Al Qaeda into two categorises: the ‘good’ Taliban and ‘bad’ Taliban. It targets the ‘bad’ Taliban because they kill inside Pakistan through terrorist bombings; it doesn’t target the ‘good’ Taliban who attack the Americans in Afghanistan. It regards the alliance as heavily bent in its favour and wishes to distance itself from the Taliban, located on its territory, who attack the Americans in Afghanistan.

A Pak strategy premised on American defeat:

Pakistan’s approach is inward-looking. It focuses on the military operations it is carrying out against the ‘bad’ Taliban and doesn’t want to drag the ‘good’ Taliban into this conflict. The ‘good’ Taliban headed by Mullah Umar are allowed to gain safe havens inside Pakistan. Some local ‘good’ Taliban are allowed to strike across the Durand Line. In North Waziristan there are ‘good’ Taliban who are a mixture of Afghan and Pakistani Taliban. The Haqqani father-and-son team runs North Waziristan as their own little state complete with taxation and judicial institutions. The Haqqani network has outreach in Khost, the stronghold of Al Qaeda, and operates against the NATO-US forces in Paktia, Paktika, Ghazni, Wardak and Kabul; it helps the other Taliban in Kunar, Nangarhar, Helmand and Kandahar provinces.

The American press quotes unnamed US officials saying Pakistan’s ISI is linked with the Haqqanis who are embedded inside the Al Qaeda shura, with son Haqqani carrying US$5 million American money on his head. Pakistan is apparently happy with the Haqqani network and its local ally Hafiz Gul Bahadur because they don’t mess with Pakistani forces fighting the Tehreek-e Taliban Pakistan (TTP). The TTP turned ‘bad’ only in 2009; before that Pakistan was in the coalition against terrorism without any real commitment to fight the Taliban and Al Qaeda, the latter belonging to Pakistan’s large baggage of denial. The policy as it stands now is one-sided and ignores the American side of the bargain.

Unclear policy on drones:

This sends a signal to the Americans: leave Afghanistan and let Pakistan handle the situation. Pakistan’s policy on drones confirms this message. The difficulty here is that Pakistan gets its $1.5 billion a year and more only because the Americans have the policy of coming out and facing up to Al Qaeda in the region. Not getting Pakistan to cooperate, the Americans use the drones mostly on North Waziristan, targeting the Haqqanis and their allies and more often than not killing Arab Al Qaeda terrorists. Pakistan’s demand is that the drones should be handed over to it because it wants to use them more judiciously against the terrorists on its territory. This means that the Americans should not use the drones, or at least should give up the ones flying over North Waziristan and occasionally further afield.

The Americans use the drones because Pakistan will not fight the ‘good’ Taliban, not even trespassers like the Haqqanis who have virtually annexed North Waziristan’s centre, Miranshah. The Pakistanis say they will tackle the Haqqanis later after they have finished dealing with the TTP, but no one even in US-hating Pakistan believes that that would be possible: because the TTP is a part of the Al Qaeda-led jihad against the Americans. The Pakistan army is spread thin because it has not mobilised enough and insists on keeping the bulk of its troops on the eastern border with India because of increased threat of an Indian strike after the 2008 Mumbai attacks. This argument spills over into another position that Pakistan has taken on the coming ‘surge’ of American troops in Afghanistan.

Policy of keeping US-NATO weak:

Pakistan says if President Obama sends 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan, the US-NATO forces will become more effective against the Taliban, leading to the latter’s strategic retreat into Pakistan. There will also be more refugees adding to Pakistan’s one million registered and over two million unregistered Afghan refugees. This will affect Pakistan’s own war against the TTP by exposing more and more cities to terrorism and resultant economic slowdown. From the Pakistani point of view the Americans are being asked to remain in a position of disadvantage with more casualties in the war against Al Qaeda so that Pakistan can win against the TTP without disturbing its forward position on the Indian border. This is an untenable proposal. It means only this: leave Afghanistan and leave it to Pakistan.

The Americans express themselves in the newspapers in Washington more freely while keeping their mouths shut in front of the Pakistani officials. They think there will be no spill-over of the Taliban after the surge because in the past on many occasions, like the face-off in Helmand, this did not happen. Some officials have spoken more ominously about Pakistan’s real reasons for not fighting the Taliban, saying the Pakistan army was divided ‘and General Kayani is concerned the move [to go after the Haqqanis] will cause the nationalist elements of the army and the ISI to side with the pro-Islamists and spark a civil war within the military’. The presence of ex-army officers like Ilyas Kashmiri – denied officially but confirmed by elements within the army – in North Waziristan as a part of Al Qaeda’s latest military programme seems to confirm this.

India, not Taliban, the real enemy:

Pakistan seems to be determined to keep India on the east in focus while trying to defeat the ‘bad’ Taliban in South Waziristan. It has an almost hundred percent anti-American public opinion on its side. Since this position is irreducible it wants the Americans to leave Afghanistan, after which it will have the Islamists in the army spearheading yet another foray into Afghanistan, this time not looking for strategic depth but for a moratorium on terrorism inside Pakistan from Al Qaeda and its Taliban allies. Getting India out of Afghanistan will be achieved by this strategy, relying on Al Qaeda to create its new state of Khorasan, as announced by Abdullah Said Al Libi, an Al Qaeda commander now dead. The Al Qaeda Khorasan will be carved out of some areas of Iran, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan and Tajikistan. Pakistan will hope that, if the Americans are driven out, Pakistan would be spared.

The problem is that Al Qaeda can’t bail out Pakistan economically. (In fact after Khorasan is achieved, Pakistan will be squeezed for the new state’s economic bailout.) Pakistan is getting by, relying on the American compulsion to keep Pakistan inside its tent {that is the qabila part} even if it is pissing in instead of out. Most Pakistani officials think that the Americans will take a lot of snubbing from Pakistan in the process because 70 percent of the NATO-US supplies still go through Pakistan which the Americans can’t afford to disrupt. In 2009, after the drones hit South Waziristan, Pakistan cut off the supply caravans! But this alliance, based on mistrust, cannot go on. The Americans might have a ‘Plan B’ but Pakistan doesn’t, as it responds to its India-driven nationalist stimuli and its embedded Islamists.

arun · Post by **arun** » 15 Jan 2010 13:35

Hmm ……….. “Joh Lahore me bewada, woh Colorado mein be bewada”

The wine guzzling, aircraft toilet occupying while shaving shoeless, sockless and shirtless antics of Pakistani citizen Muhammad Abu Tahir:

Unruly passenger charged in AirTran incident

For more details check out the criminal complaint here:

Criminal Complaint

Malayappan · Post by **Malayappan** » 15 Jan 2010 14:07

SSridhar wrote:This is a fantastic article by Khaled Ahmed completely exposing the Pakistani perfidy and agenda. I am posting this in full for posterity's sake ! Courtesey TFT.

Brilliant stuff!
A humble request to the US citizens on this board - will it be an idea to let your Senator / Congressman have it on email with source attributed? It probably may not be news to those who know, but will at least serve as a pressure point, however feeble.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Jan 2010 14:59

Beware of the Ides of March, warns Najam Sethi. TFT Editorial.

Second, the DG-ISI is scheduled to retire in February. Given the war-like situation prevailing in the country on both its eastern and western fronts, the military establishment believes it has rightful expectation to seek the current DG’s extension in service for purposes of policy continuity and coherence. But there are two problems here. As in the case of the judges seeking extensions or transfers, what is being demanded is unprecedented; it is also debatable whether the government should give succour to the very individuals or institutions who are suspected of having connived in undermining its writ and weakening it.

Will appeasement help or non-compliance hurt Mr Zardari? The Ides of March are not too far away.

vishal · Post by **vishal** » 15 Jan 2010 16:37

PayPal doesn't operate in 6 countries. Guess one of them.

Extract: As of now, PayPal operates in 189 countries, that is like only six countries where Paypal does NOT operate:

Cuba
Pakistan
Iran
North Korea, and
Afghanistan
Syria

So lets see, Cuba has an embargo on trade with the US – has been for past 40+ years, so that is okay.

Iran, North Korea and Syria are “Axis of Evil” countries. So that’s understandable.

Afghanistan – is where the US is fighting it main battle $200+ Billion lost – okay so that is also understandable,

Pakistan – Ah! Pakistan. US’s Non-Nato Ally. Why the heck is Pakistan left out? I mean for crying out loud, even Somalia and Yemen have access to Paypal? Bloody Yemen! Bloody Somalia! Bloody Rwanda!

You know what? That makes me – Bloody Angry!

Why the discrimination – I have no idea. Reminds me of the song by the Pet Shop Boys, “What Have I Ddone to Deserve This?”

Big time kick to H&D, right in the balls!

Read the comments below the post too

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Jan 2010 16:50

dont forget Nigeria. if paypal can work in nigeria they should be able to survive in pandora.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 15 Jan 2010 16:51

shiv wrote: So a blind hate or blind love of Pakistan may both be wrong polices on their own but both may be policies to follow depending in what element within Pakistan must be reassured and what element within Pakistan needs to be threatened.

Actually this is a sensible policy - but then we need two policies wrt TSP. One overt and one covert.

The overt one should, as you say, try to separate the innocents from the animals, if only to keep the innocents either neutral or in favor of India and hence with lowered guard. All this Aman tamasha can serve such purposes.

The overt one should recognise that the innocents are such a microscopic minority, they dont matter statistically and hence formulate action plan to permanently solve the TSP problem for ourselves and for humanity which is complete destruction of fanatic barbarian terrorist state of Pakistan.

vishal · Post by **vishal** » 15 Jan 2010 17:01

Stupid article by WKK type

Extract: Finally, the question most often asked, 'Why talk at all?' may well find its answer in George Mallory's response to the question, 'Why climb Everest?' 'Because it's there,' the mountaineer replied. Why talk to Pakistan? Because it will always be there. And we still can.

Madam, surely you don't suggest we should step into a pile of cowdung just beause it happens to be right there in the middle of the road. The logic of this lady astounds me!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Jan 2010 17:45

Hakeemullah Mehsud might have been injured in the second bird attack today

A latest drone strike on a suspected militant hideout in South Waziristan has injured the Chief of Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan Hakeemullah Mehsud on Friday, according to a DawnNews report.

The fresh airstrike comes a day after Mehsud fled a similar strike in the restive tribal belt.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Jan 2010 17:54

Mapping the Establishment
Ayesha Siddiqa bares who really rules Pakistan and how.

The establishment is not a static entity. It has evolved over the years with newer members joining in and becoming more significant than others. However, a distinction must be made between the core, peripheral and associate members. It is the core members that moderate and control the dynamics of the establishment while the peripheral ones provide support to the system without determining the direction of the working of the establishment. The associate members are taken on board when the need arises.

The core members include senior members of the military and civil bureaucracies, select politicians, media houses and some key economic players. While the military and civil bureaucracies are easier to identify because they have a formal organisational shape and well-defined institutional interests, other actors such as politicians and the media are not so easily captured.

There are some politicians whose primary job it is to watch out for the interests of the establishment and tip the balance within their respective parties in favour of the establishment in case there is any threat to its interests. Each party has such members.

Part of the media is a core member but it is also divided between the other two categories. For instance, the ownership of media groups had always been part of the core group of the establishment. The editorial teams, on the other hand, did not follow a single path i.e. not all had links to the establishment. There were always some editorial groups with peripheral members while others remained independent.

Along with the media as an institution, key intellectuals, academics and opinion-makers have also become part of the peripheral group.

People are often confused by the various debates in the media that gives an impression of independence. Views can differ and internal battles within the establishment can also surface through the media but this does not mean a qualitative difference of opinion.

It must also be noted that there are some other state institutions, including the judiciary, that are taken on board on a need-be basis. Historically, the judiciary was brought on board to endorse the legitimacy of the system and so the group has associate membership of the establishment. The militant groups on the whole also belong to the category of associate members which means that these can be abandoned or their significance reduced once they are not needed any more. However, a distinction has to be made between the militant groups and those among their leadership who have become part of the peripheral group just like the religious parties.

Even the topmost member of the military has been pushed out once he abandoned the principles. {The first example was Iskander Mirza who was thrown out by Ayub as soon as he was appointed as the Chief Martial Law Administrator in circa 1958}The most recent example is Pervez Musharraf who became irrelevant for the establishment once he deviated from certain key principles and embarked upon policy change. The establishment is not a monolith, but it comes together as soon as its interests are threatened. Understanding this dinosaur is necessary before its power is contested.

The powerful 'establishment' was first created by Ghulam Mohammed, Chaudhry Mohammed Ali, Iskander Mirza and Ayub Khan in the 50s. The first three were bureaucrats (though Iskander Mirza had a brief stint in the British Indian Army) turned Presidents/Prime Ministers of Pakistan and the last was an Army man turned dictator. They first eliminated Liaquat Ali Khan following which they had a complete and unchecked run of the country.

Bhima · Post by **Bhima** » 15 Jan 2010 18:54

Apologies if already posted.

US charges three men over 2008 Mumbai attacks

A Pakistani militant leader a former Pakistani army officer and a man from Chicago have been charged in the US over the deadly 2008 Mumbai attacks.

arun · Post by **arun** » 15 Jan 2010 19:10

Ut sementem feceris, its metes.

Interior Minister of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan says that there were 232 demonstrations of the IEDMubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan over the last 8 years:

232 suicide attacks took place during eight years: Senate told

ISLAMABAD, Jan 15 (APP): The Interior Minister A. Rehman Malik Friday told Senate that as many as 232 incidents of suicide attacks took place from 2002 to 2009 causing death of 2,576 civilians and Law Enforcement Agencies (LEAs) personnel and injuring 6,876 others. Replying to a question of Saleem Saifullah Khan, he said that most number of incidents i.e 91 took place during last year claiming the lives of 197 LEAs personnel and 671 of civilians, while 338 LEAs’ personnel and 2,183 civilians were injured in these attacks.

Giving the break up the Minister said that 63 suicide attacks occurred in year 2008 killing 149 LEAs’ personnel and 619 civilians while injuring 581 LEAs personnel and 1,315 civilian. …………………………..

APP

animesharma · Post by **animesharma** » 15 Jan 2010 20:06

Extract: Finally, the question most often asked, 'Why talk at all?' may well find its answer in George Mallory's response to the question, 'Why climb Everest?' 'Because it's there,' the mountaineer replied. Why talk to Pakistan? Because it will always be there. And we still can.

Thats the logic of the day. Mt. everest is a symbol of greatness. Climbing it denotes human supremacy over Nature.
unlike Puki, which is a symbol of insult to religion and the concept of "common sense", climbing it is the only option.

Beside talk about what? Madam, your government is no different than a split personality psycho, which is not aware of what it did yesterday.It is in ICU, fighting a war between two different ideologies. Its not good to negotiate with a dying entity, whats the point.
No matter how and how much you try to convince the doctor, he wont prescribe your medicine of your choice.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Jan 2010 20:13

Singha wrote:seems to me TSP is run on the likes of a very large scale criminal, mafia and terrorist org.

Here's how it's run

SSridhar wrote:Mapping the Establishment

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 15 Jan 2010 20:30

Akmal’s antics
Indian filmy cliches galore.

But more pertinently, it’s been the story of the Akmals in the shape of Munna Bhai and Circuit. Lage raho, Munna Bhai.

Bole toh, the team management did the rare smart thing on this tour

the story that bhai log had made a breakthrough

Luckily the two keepers gave jadoo ki jhappi to each other

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Jan 2010 20:45

KLNMurthy wrote: what levers of control do you think India has for achieving this influence?

Which constituency in Pakistan might support India?

I really don't know. I suspect the MEA and Intel agencies have some idea.

Despite its name "Islamic Republic of Pakistan" - the idea of Pakistan is less Islamic and more anti-Hindu. I say anti-Hindu and not anti India deliberately and I think history clearly bears this out. think it is important to recognise and acknowledge this.

That Pakistani establishment in particular needs to be rabidly anti-Hindu to survive and they have tried to make the entire country anti-Hindu. But just like in India where any Hindu-Muslim strife is often overridden by concerns of health and survival against common problems, the mango Abdul Pakistani may be anti-Hindu in the back of his mind from indoctrination, but with an absence of any Hindus nearby to hate and the very real presence of other reasons for being miserable hatred of the Hindu probably takes a back seat among sections of Pakistanis and it is these sections that need to be handled and possibly wooed with kid gloves.

On this forum we pride ourselves in the knowledge of Islamic tips and tricks. One frequently mentioned tactic is taqiyya. A Muslim can conceal his religion under threat or for some other purpose. But has anyone looked at Indian secularism as a form of Hindu taqiyya? A secular group of Indians addressing a group of receptive Pakistanis is one way of putting a few Pakistanis in Indian pockets. Chankian thinking, and a clearing of minds from rigid dogma is essential for this.

It needs to be noted that in their enthusiasm to create a nation of Hindu haters, the Paki establishment used Islam. They offered the same devout Muslims for sacrifices in a US cause in Afghanistan, in exchange for the US turning a blind eye to the use of Islamic fighters against India. Unfortunately for Pakis, pure Talibaniac Islam is not specifically anti Hindu like the Paki establishment. It is explicitly anti-semitic and anti-Christian. Now suddenly the Paki army/establishment finds that is holding a hot potato which they can't handle. The US is applying GUBO. And Pakis are gradually beginning taqqiya themselves - to the extent of one guy actually saying that the name "islamic" should be removed from the name Pakistan. The need for secularism/taqiyya is becoming urgent and a group of Pakis is now begging India to throw scraps at Pakis.

There might possibly be the seeds of some opportunity here that we need to grab. Taqiyya is the name of the game, and secularism is its name. Pakistan's problem may be that one man's taqqiya is another bushy bearded man's munafiq(oon) or whatever..

Just some random thoughts.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 15 Jan 2010 21:10

Guys, I am getting bored and not getting my money's worth

. With so many maiden overs, TSP is either on the verge or already has beaten Anshuman Gaekwad's dubious record of playing dot ball after dot ball unable to score a run

.

What is cooking behind the scenes? Indian govt is slowly resuming love making with TSP, so called 'war on terror' shifts to Yemen, and at the same time too many maiden overs in TSP.

TSP has definetly weathered out 26/11 and is actually reaping the rewards, but is it slowly wiggling out of the mess it is in? I saw uber nationlist John McCaine talking to his Greata on Pentagon's Fox news channel the other night, and he seemed to indicate the same, namely, TSP's worst is over

, which means India's nightmare resumes.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Jan 2010 21:28

SSridhar the first serious mapping of the Paki establishment was done by Emma Duncan of the Economist in her book "Breaking the Curfew". She does a vertical and horizontal dissection of the Pak society and pwoer centers. In her book she refers to a US mapping of circle of influence done during Ayub Khan's time and a similar one iin Zia's time and the curious fact that none of the old network was visible in the latter diagram. The roles were similar but the actors playing the roles were very very different. We should try one for current times.

Many RAPE still agonize at her book.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 15 Jan 2010 21:34

4 US missiles kill 5 people in NWA
Friday, January 15, 2010

WANA: Four back-to-back missiles fired by suspected US drone killed three people in North Waziristan tribal region near Afghanistan border, Geo reported Friday.

The unmanned US plane targeted Zarniri area, which is near the spot where U.S. missiles are believed to have narrowly missed the Taliban chief Hakimullah Mehsud the day before.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 15 Jan 2010 21:43

India for cordial ties with Pak, China: Army chief

January 15, 2010 15:36 IST

After his doctrine of two-front war with Pakistan and China drew flak from across the border, Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor on Friday said India [ Images ] wanted to foster 'cordial and peaceful relations' with both the nations.

"India has always believed in maintaining peaceful and cordial relations with its neighbouring countries," Kapoor told his troops, senior officers and foreign dignitaries in New Delhi [ Images ] on the occasion of 62nd Army Day.

"With China, we want to continue peace. We want cordial relations and peace with Pakistan too," he said after reviewing a smartly turned out Army Day Parade.

On the insurgency in Jammu and Kashmir [ Images ] and Northeastern states, the army chief said the current situation was very much under control.

"The insurgency situation in Jammu and Kashmir is in full control of the security forces. The peaceful situation in the border state is due to the continuous efforts of the security forces. In the North East too we have ensured peace. We will continue this good work," he said.

Referring to the changes in the geo-political and security situation, Kapoor said this was an era of bilateral and multi-lateral cooperation and added that India had pursued it by holding highly enriching joint training exercises with several countries.

"Such joint exercises provides an opportunity to enhance mutual understanding," he said.

He listed out Armed Forces Tribunal for dispensing justice to personnel, Married Accommodation Project in forward and high altitude areas, hike in allowances and better facilities, as some of the welfare measures launched recently.

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/jan/ ... -chief.htm

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Jan 2010 22:10

SSridhar, I am starting an archive file on my HD called TSP_2010 where I plan to store useful articles like Khalid Ahmed and Ayessah Siddiqa articles. Suggest others start doing that too.

archan · Post by **archan** » 15 Jan 2010 22:11

SSridhar wrote:From an article on Ancestry in TFT

The author is ignorant. A simple google search would tell you what a Mongolian Birthmark is. From here

At least one Mongolian spot is present on over 90% of Native Americans and people of African descent, over 80% of Asians, over 70% of Hispanics,and just under 10% of fair-skinned infants (Clinical Pediatric Dermatology, 1993). Despite the name, Mongolian spots have no known anthropologic significance, except for being more common in darker-skinned infants. Mongolian spots are nothing more than dense collections of melanocytes, the skin cells which contain melanin, the normal pigment of the skin. When the melanocytes are close to the surface, they look deep brown. The deeper they are in the skin, the more bluish they look. Either way, they are not related to bruises or any other medical condition.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Jan 2010 22:25

His ignorance doesnt stop him from peddling some TFTA ancestry for himself and his Headley type grandson!

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 15 Jan 2010 22:30

Airavat wrote:Chhamb after the 1971 war

Sure it was part of the delineation of the LOC but see the context. 1971 was a victory where Indira Gandhi, described as the leader who best understood the Pakistani mentality by many BR members, held 90,000 POWs and yet bartered Indian territory. And worse, Indian citizens of Chhamb were reduced to the status of refugees in Jammu!

Why on earth did she cede territory?

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 15 Jan 2010 22:33

I think many are underestimating India's resilience and strength.India has served an ultimatum.TSPA's benefactors have passed on the message across clearly to their munna.

The Anglo-Saxons realise that jehadi ideology has reached a critical mass.The jehadis will not restrict themselves to India.Indias patience has also run out.Also any further attacks will consolidate India and lead to an upsurge.The West will have much to lose when that happens.

The Anglo-Saxons are working overtime to unwind *both* India and Pakistan.All this aman tamasha is to lull India and distract India from its rightful place and trajectory.They hope against hope that WKKs can thwart India's destiny.Though it is apparent to the most muddled cold war warrior,that it is a forlorn hope.

We should welcome all this tamasha if it throws the paki elites into confusion.India will reap the peace dividends.Pak is basket case.Nothing is going to revive Pak.Only two choices-slide into irrelevance/paralysis/relentless decline or complete destruction.Without Jehadi ideology,Pak loses its reason to exist.Supporting it means accelerating self-destruction.

It is either harakiri or a Gavaskar type 36 not out(in 60 overs) in 1975 World Cup.Either way,it is fine for us.We may not have Shahid Afridi type boom -boom attacks but that is only a loss of entertainment,not a loss.

Indian influence will grow.That is a given.India will fill in the vaccum in the most natural way.Time and Geography are on our side.TSPA mardangi has been thoroughly exposed.They can continue with the khost type suicide attacks.That will mean loss of family jewels.TSP is royally sc****d.

Pakistan has lost completely in 2009.They are international 'outcastes'.The world recogonises it as epicentre of terror.Pakis lost Swat and North Waziristan.An emasculated TSPA is the laughing stock of Pakis.The world sees the diffrence between India and Pak inspite of Psy-ops by usual suspects.

Credit due to the MMS Govt for its masterly 'inaction'.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 15 Jan 2010 22:34

negi wrote:Pakistan's elite always look over their shoulders to compare themselves with India so while India has HINDI as its national language they yearn for URDU (for its Mughal origins) idiots that they are don't realize that Urdu is not even spoken by 10% of TSP population infact it is Punjabi ,pashto and sindhi which are main link languages. Fwiw Urdu originated somewhere around present day Lucknow and was nurtured by the nawabs and I guess a vast majority of the local populace stayed back in India.

Not to mention that what they call Urdu is merely a stylistic variant of hindi. It is Hindi all the way. Call about fooling themselves.

But this monstrosity is not enough, they promptly got themselves a national anthem in Persian, a language understood by maybe 20 people in TSP. This is like my native country Sweden getting a national anthem in Spanish.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 15 Jan 2010 22:41

Did munna-ji submit the SRR article on GoI's bind in deal with TSP?

munna · Post by **munna** » 15 Jan 2010 22:59

^^Nearly there, will finish it off this weekend! Plus another one coming up.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 15 Jan 2010 23:05

Carl Levin tells Pakis: "Shutup with whining about Dronacharya"

ASHINGTON: Shut up and put up, is the curt message the United States is sending Pakistan after Islamabad’s incessant whine about drone attacks on its territory. Washington says the complaints are hypocritical considering Pakistani leaders support the strikes in private and the hits are clearly damaging terrorists with minimum civilian casualties.

In a public rebuke to the Pakistani leadership on Thursday, a leading US lawmaker [Carl Levin] , supported by the Obama administration, told reporters after a visit to the region that he was ''very unhappy'' with the vocal criticism of the drone strikes from top officials in Islamabad when in private they "not only understand and acquiesce but in many cases support the drone attacks."

Washington, US Senate Armed Services Committee chairman Carl Levin, told reporters in a conference call, would prefer "a silence on their part rather than a public attack on us that creates real problems for us in terms of the Pakistani public and helps create some real animosity" against the United States.

"I just think it's wrong for them, I've told them that to their face," said Levin, who met in Pakistan with Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and Pakistan's army chief of staff Ashfaq Kayani.

Gilani, Kayani, and interior minister Rehman Malik are seen as part of the hard-line clique that has adopted the tactic of whipping up public hysteria against US and India with phony, malicious charges, including feigned outrage about drone strikes and charges of interference in Baluchistan, to win the support of the fundamentalist constituency and rally a demoralized army.

The tactic has led even Pakistani civil society activists like Asma Jehangir to contend that their government is engineering a hostile atmosphere even as the people desire peace. India’s foreign secretary Nirupama Rao too alluded to it at a conference in New Delhi on Thursday when she accused Pakistan of using “terrorist ideologies to promote unscrupulous political or institutional agendas."

From the link (among other items):
Link

Meanwhile:
Taliban confirms Hakimullah Mehsud injured
and another hit is being reported:
Three militants 'killed' in Pakistan drone strike

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 15 Jan 2010 23:09

Apparently, they don't allow Western Union either! However, I am not 100% sure about it. A colleague from the land of the pure was complaining about it the other day that it has been recently revoked abnormally

vishal wrote:PayPal doesn't operate in 6 countries. Guess one of them.

Extract: As of now, PayPal operates in 189 countries, that is like only six countries where Paypal does NOT operate:

Cuba
Pakistan
Iran
North Korea, and
Afghanistan
Syria

So lets see, Cuba has an embargo on trade with the US – has been for past 40+ years, so that is okay.

Iran, North Korea and Syria are “Axis of Evil” countries. So that’s understandable.

Afghanistan – is where the US is fighting it main battle $200+ Billion lost – okay so that is also understandable,

Pakistan – Ah! Pakistan. US’s Non-Nato Ally. Why the heck is Pakistan left out? I mean for crying out loud, even Somalia and Yemen have access to Paypal? Bloody Yemen! Bloody Somalia! Bloody Rwanda!

You know what? That makes me – Bloody Angry!

Why the discrimination – I have no idea. Reminds me of the song by the Pet Shop Boys, “What Have I Ddone to Deserve This?”

Big time kick to H&D, right in the balls!
Read the comments below the post too