Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 18 Jan 2010 06:41

Acharya,
Maybe it is cricket

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jan 2010 07:04

anjan wrote:I'd imagine industry has the most to lose with terrorism.

As long as industry can sell products in IndiaPakistan, terrorism is not a problem. Terrorism is a problem only for the tourism and aviation industries. I had made a post with some thoughts on IndiaPakistan yesterday - I will merely link it here

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 26#p807526

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 18 Jan 2010 07:23

^^^It is pure fallacy to think of the Pak population as a monolith - there are multiple constituencies, whether we like it or not. And not all the multiple constituencies are in tune with the Zia-Taliban mould, whether we like it for our analytical and ideological ease or not..

The example of Nazi Germanyquoted here is not moot - the Nazis were not looking to change the German elite's way of life. The example that is germane is that of Bangladesh, where the West Pakistanis were trying to change the Bengali (Muslim and Hindu) way of life..

In Pakistan's case, a Taliban takeover chance is remote (yet), but possibilities of "Col-coup" attempts degenerating into mini-civil war type scenarios is not unlikely..In fact right here in BRF, there are people dreaming of a breakup of Pakistan..Will there be a breakup of the state without population dislocation? And where would the urban (and rural) punjabi bourgeosie go if pushed up the brick wall? It will be Western Punjab, with all the attendant issues of "Punjabi sentimentalism", not dissimilar to X-border Bengali and Tamil sentimentalism in some ways, but way stronger in its physical manifestations!

"Shoot the buggers" is not sensible strategy, and no fence in the world can keep out hundreds of thousands of people escaping death..

Is the solution creation of a "buffer zone" within Pakistan? What sort of capabilities would we require to quickly set up one?

Are there certain sorts of refugees that we would be happy to absorb? We need thorough mapping of the Pakistani demographics to create matrices on which asylum can be offered on a scientific basis - else the situation of Bangladeshi migration-turned-settlement in NE post-1971 will happen again..

Finally, are we even engagiung with the great powers to talk about this scenario? This will not be a "neat" situation, the ramifications would be borne by India, and in our interests we would need the rest of the world to cooperate, including the element of funding..

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jan 2010 07:32

The percentage of India manufactured products being sold in Pakistan is a state secret - or perhaps it is an industrial secret. I keep reading about how India is becoming a local outsourcing hub for products ranging from automobile parts to cellphones. Where are these products going? As indicated in the post I have linked above a definite percentage of these products are being repackaged as "Suzuki" or "Nokia" and are being sold in Pakistan. Despite Pakistan's "failure" as we have predicted - Pakistanis now own 90 million cellphones. At 15 million pieces per year and $ 20 profit per phone that is $ 300 million in phone instruments alone. The Suzuki Swift - a car release in India 3-4 years ago is available in Pakistan as well albeit at a higher price.

Check videos of Pakistan city streets on YouTube. Pakistan is getting glitzy malls just like many places in India. The aid money pouring in to Pakistan is getting recycled as Pakis use that money to support mutilnational companies. If Pakistan fails, a lot of companies will lose a huge chunk of business. So Pakistan will not be allowed to fail. Not just by the west, but by Indian industry which is also making money directly or indirectly.

When people talk of "global village" this is what they mean - i.e the rich (multinationals) will keep up business as usual unaffected by silly sentiment like terrorism. How many of you contributed 10 percent or more of one year's income to aid India after 26/11? Nobody. But some businesses will lose more than 10% of their income if business with Pakistan stops. So your sentiment about terrorism is plain stupidity to the man who is losing his money. He does not give a damn. Money talks louder that timepass internet.

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 18 Jan 2010 07:56

The best way is to transfer all refugees to "higher than and wider than" friend at Xinjiang using the pre-built Karakoram highway.
The kanjoos, Makhi choos friend of TSP offered way less money to TSP than India offered Bangladesh!
This shows what Chicom really thinks of TSP. A million TSP citizen in Xinjiang shouldn't bother this great friend one bit and I am sure the refugees will be more than grateful for the freedom and liberty in the home of their best friend!!

asprinzl wrote:No goodwill will come from this. Indians have a choice. They can become extremely cynical yet save their nation or try to look good to the Norweigians and Swedes and allow the million and more ppl into India and repeat similar process and end up being minority Hindus in about two hundred years living as dhimis under Shariah in a land swarming with members of the religion of peace.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 18 Jan 2010 08:02

somnath wrote:Finally, are we even engagiung with the great powers to talk about this scenario?

This is a good point because the Americans would be able to share their post-WW2 de-Nazification techniques and benchmarks. This one will be complicated by the additional religious facet in the mix. There are very few reasons for optimism considering that India has not been able to modernise education for the majority of its Muslim citizens in the years since 1947.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 18 Jan 2010 08:09

shiv wrote:
Check videos of Pakistan city streets on YouTube. Pakistan is getting glitzy malls just like many places in India. The aid money pouring in to Pakistan is getting recycled as Pakis use that money to support mutilnational companies. If Pakistan fails, a lot of companies will lose a huge chunk of business. So Pakistan will not be allowed to fail. Not just by the west, but by Indian industry which is also making money directly or indirectly.

Is there some cognitive dissonance going on in this forum or what? On the one hand, we are worried about TSP going down the tubes, and millions gate crashing into India, and here you are pointing to glitzy malls popping up in TSP.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 18 Jan 2010 08:13

Terror infrastructure in Pak still intact: Rao

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 18 Jan 2010 08:22

Karna_A wrote:The best way is to transfer all refugees to "higher than and wider than" friend at Xinjiang using the pre-built Karakoram highway.
The kanjoos, Makhi choos friend of TSP offered way less money to TSP than India offered Bangladesh!
This shows what Chicom really thinks of TSP. A million TSP citizen in Xinjiang shouldn't bother this great friend one bit and I am sure the refugees will be more than grateful for the freedom and liberty in the home of their best friend!!

asprinzl wrote:No goodwill will come from this. Indians have a choice. They can become extremely cynical yet save their nation or try to look good to the Norweigians and Swedes and allow the million and more ppl into India and repeat similar process and end up being minority Hindus in about two hundred years living as dhimis under Shariah in a land swarming with members of the religion of peace.

China has some empty cities. They can populate them with Pakistanis

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Jan 2010 08:28

Aman ki Asha and the Vice Chancellor of the Quaid-e-Azam University

“Using their expertise in science and technology, Indians are minting money despite the fact that they have nothing worthy to export,” he said.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 18 Jan 2010 08:29

[China has some empty cities. They can populate them with Pakistanis[

Not onlee that ,China is also best in defending Islam among 3.5 Auliyas of Pakistan. But seriously , as i tried to mention on TOI, Pakistani should look Westward toward the lands of their Arab, Persian , Afghan and other sundries paternal ancestors who came with Qasim , his birathers and afterward.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 18 Jan 2010 08:32

SSridhar wrote:Aman ki Asha and the Vice Chancellor of the Quaid-e-Azam University
[quote]“Using their expertise in science and technology, Indians are minting money despite the fact that they have nothing worthy to export,” he said.

[/quote]

Those godda** banias are cheating whole duniya and printing money out of thin air.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 18 Jan 2010 08:34

shiv wrote:The percentage of India manufactured products being sold in Pakistan is a state secret - or perhaps it is an industrial secret. I keep reading about how India is becoming a local outsourcing hub for products ranging from automobile parts to cellphones. Where are these products going? As indicated in the post I have linked above a definite percentage of these products are being repackaged as "Suzuki" or "Nokia" and are being sold in Pakistan.

The total volume of Indo-Pak trade is about 1 billion a year - it is said by various estimates, including a recent FICCI report, that the volume can be 3-4 billion if the "unofficial" numbers are counted..3-4 billion is a reasonable number, but still a speck in India's total trade volume of over 300 billion every year..the economic interests are not intertwined enough to be a deciding factor.

However the Pakistani elite lives life, and aspires pretty much congruently with the Indian middle class..Therefore the chances of an immediate Taliban take-over are remote..But chances of civil war, out of conflicting class interests of the urban middle class, radicalised rural Punjabi peasantry and external influences (especially Pashtoon) are not that inconceivable..Suhasini HAidar's recent article pointing towards Zia's "islamicised" officers ascending generalships now is also pertinent...

We have tried this "lets trade, and keep politics for later" stance in the past - hasnt worked, and probably wont either..

But is there a way we can make a start by trying to attract the "brightest and the best" of the Pakistanis to India? The Pak elite today deploys most of its wealth in the US and UK, both human as well as pecuniary..India will only be richer by attracting some of them, and we will have created a template for an unforeseeable situation..

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 18 Jan 2010 08:36

^^^ This is the elite that created Pakistan and will always be a thorn on our sides. Let us keep them away pls.
Much of their wealth comes from Land which they will no longer own once they are on our borders

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 18 Jan 2010 08:38

pgbhat wrote:
Those godda** banias are cheating whole duniya and printing money out of thin air.

Well given the tenor of the whole article - largely poasitive about the Indian post-indpendence experience, the statement seems to be a case of misrepresentation..What he probably wanted to say was that despite not having any worthy "natural resources" (read oil, or any other strategic minerals) to export, India does well by leveraging S&T..

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 18 Jan 2010 08:40

^^^ Something is clearly afoot.
It will be a cold day in hell when these guys get scholarships to our univs.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 18 Jan 2010 08:42

somnath-ji I understood that.

Point he was trying make was to put aam abduls to productive use than just turning them to be soosai bombers.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jan 2010 08:45

CRamS wrote: Is there some cognitive dissonance going on in this forum or what? On the one hand, we are worried about TSP going down the tubes, and millions gate crashing into India, and here you are pointing to glitzy malls popping up in TSP.

I think it is easy for an Indian to sit in Bangalore or Hyderabad and feel the security and comfort without needing to feel Naxal heat or the poverty of a farmer committing suicide. It is virtually certain that Pakistanis are able to sit comfortably in parts of Pakistan without feeling Taliban heat.

When Pakistan creates the heat of terrorism in an Indian city, we sit up and take note of that because it singes our own ass. Pakistani ass has mostly not been singed until 2009 and even that is generated in Pakistan. Where it is generated is of less consequence than the fact that as long as 90% of the wealthy people in a country are untouched by strife and protected by private security, the world economy will keep on spinning.

India cannot touch the wealthy in Pakistan because they are insulated from India. But Pakistan too does not directly touch the wealthy in India. In such circumstances the definition of "extremism" gets corrupted to "Those who want to upset the life of the wealthy". Oh of course - India can upset the wealthy of Pakistan by waging war, but that has the blowback of upsetting the wealthy in India as well.

The mistake that the Mughals made was plunder. The British won because they kept the wealthy rich and called it "trade". The US is careful not to upset the wealthy (RAPE) of Pakistan, but hits whoever it likes aside from that group. In other words society within a country is divided - with the wealthy being bought off by economic incentives or pressure, while the poor are hit as needed to suppress any rebels. Ideology of any sort has no role here. India too will not be able to buck this trend. The wealthy of India will have to be in a position to control the wealthy of Pakistan by economic pressures while it kills the Kasabs or allows them to commit suicide - as long as they do it harmlessly like Indian farmers (and unlike Naxals). Making the poor of India wealthy is a side task that India must do for its own good. Pakistan is keeping its own poor in poverty and using them as cannon fodder.

When we talk "secularism" I believe we don't realise how powerful secularism is when combined with the corporate greed. It is not for nothing that secularism defeated some of the most rabidly expansionist religions in the West.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 18 Jan 2010 08:47

What Aman ki Asha?

This kite flying, under the name of Aman ki Asha. I am a Delhi-Agra wala who still has very fond memories of the place where I grew up, went to the famous educational institutions, and I loved to walk in Jamia Masjid and monuments of Muslim history’s glory.

Dear fellow kuffars, this paki diplomat tells us that history is not divided into time periods, but into community periods.

Although I worked for Pakistan Movement in the students’ leadership days, when Pakistan came into existence, I had no intention of leaving my ancestral place but I had no alternative but to become homeless when our houses were looted.

Typical Pakistani confusion. When you take action be prepared to face the consequences.

Even then many Indians want Pakistan to accept Indian hegemony and accept a position of a subordinate. This is just not possible. If history teaches any lesson it is that Muslims having been rulers in India for long centuries it is not in Muslim psyche to accept a subordinate position.

Distorted history cannot teach any lesson

. Pakistan is not a representative of Muslims, au contraire it has massacred them in Bangladesh, Baluchistan, Baltistan, Pashtunistan....

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jan 2010 08:52

“Using their expertise in science and technology, Indians are minting money despite the fact that they have nothing worthy to export

This may be OT here - but India really does generate much cutting edge technology for export. We are manufacturers of existing tech, and exporters of manpower services - from laborers and doctors/nurses, to call center people, to software coders. And agri produce and minerals of course. There is hardly anything India exports which cannot be done by almost any other country.

In that sense the Paki is spot on and is rubbing it in where he knows it will hurt most. But we need to change our education system and attitudes for that to change.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 18 Jan 2010 08:53

Why does the Aman Ka Tamasha remind one of "Prithviraj Chauhan" & Ghori?

This nonsense makes one so angry. These murderers and rapists are now looking for reconciliation.
Why don't Sonia and co invite remaining LTTE members into their home?

wish someone had the funds to create counter ads - 3 wars, Saurabh Kalia, bomb blasts, Insurgencies in Punjab and J&K, Ethnic cleansing of minorities, Talibanization etc.
One cringes at how Aman ka Tamasha is trying to show us as the same pple

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 18 Jan 2010 08:58

Even then many Indians want Pakistan to accept Indian hegemony and accept a position of a subordinate. This is just not possible. If history teaches any lesson it is that Muslims having been rulers in India for long centuries it is not in Muslim psyche to accept a subordinate position.

Where is this so called Muslim Psyche when Pakistan begs , do GUBO , carry Lota on world tour and live on the Khairat of others, especially Kuffar.
The fact of the matter is people living in current Pakistan have always been ruled by other as they are weak ajalaf converts under the threat of knife. Pakistani, mainly Pakjabis are very peak people , couple of blows and they will surrender enmass like they did on Dec 16th ,1971.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jan 2010 09:02

Muslims having been rulers in India for long centuries it is not in Muslim psyche to accept a subordinate position

Every intelligent Paki now knows that the way to get Indian langotis knotted up with rage is to say this. This is the button that gets 20% takleef from Indians in general and 80% takleef on BRF. If I was Paki I would say this more often than BURUR and make it the first line of a Pakistani authored Quran, which as we know is the real Quran.

Pakis are living under US subjugation it is only the impotent chagrin of Indians that make us angry and take note of Paki barking and bark back. Every time India shows sanity and unity of purpose, some Paki says this and makes Indians' go into a tizzy. Some of these statements need to b put on the ignore list of Indians so India can show by actions the truth or otherwise of such statements.

I think it may be worth making a list of statements from Pakistan that are custom designed to get Indians angry and lifting their lungis to do a rage dance.

negi · Post by **negi** » 18 Jan 2010 09:09

^ How does that argument even hold water Shiv ji ? In a democracy where does the question of subordination arise ?
Indeed such logic can emanate from pak sar zameen onlee.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 18 Jan 2010 09:10

Jarita wrote:Why does the Aman Ka Tamasha remind one of "Prithviraj Chauhan" & Ghori?

Off-topic but that is distorted history.

Meanwhile the occupying Punjabi Muslims are being targeted in Baluchistan

Malik Iftikhar Awan, an owner of dairy farm, had gone to Ghausabad area to visit his farm. Two unknown motorcyclists who were armed with sophisticated weapons opened fire on him and successfully escaped from the scene.

According reports reaching from Khuzdar, unidentified attackers killed a person in Khuzdar. Name of deceased has been identified as Mohammad Iqbal and he was stated to be resident of Sialkot. It may be mentioned that situation had become tense in Khzudar town the other day after killing of two Baloch political workers including a student. BSO (Azad) had blamed FC for firing but spokesman of FC had rejected the claim.

In yet another similar incident, unknown armed men shot dead a person in Mastung town, some 50 kilometres away from Quetta. Police said incident of attack on a person identified as Muhammad Ismail was occurred at Adalat Road. Muhammad Ismail is stated to be a (Punjabi) settler.

shiv wrote:Every intelligent Paki

Oxymoron

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 18 Jan 2010 09:13

shiv wrote:There is hardly anything India exports which cannot be done by almost any other country.

I wouldn't be so categorical about that. The Fortune 500's of this world are not stupid and are here for a reason.

Having worked with design engineering teams from around the world, when we get on conference calls the level of expertise from India is almost Western Standard.

This can not be said of almost any other country I've dealt with, including China and Pakistan. I had a conference call with a PHD from Pakistan no less, where even the terminology comprehension was so poor we had to reschedule the call with a different team just last month. When asked to provide structural base isolators, we had a 30 minute lecture form him on every thing he does to isolate electrical systems! When some one finally mentioned that it was high density rubberized system, he went on about how all kinds of rubber pads are manufactured in Pakistan and it should not be a problem.

The real problem with India is work ethic. Need to end the tea walla and get everyone to the office at 8 in the morning. Our GDP will sprout wings.

Also the endless festival disappearances. We are still waiting to sign a contract for 4 weeks because the India chappie is still gone to mai-bap.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 18 Jan 2010 09:13

shiv wrote:
“Using their expertise in science and technology, Indians are minting money despite the fact that they have nothing worthy to export
This may be OT here - but India really does generate much cutting edge technology for export. We are manufacturers of existing tech, and exporters of manpower services - from laborers and doctors/nurses, to call center people, to software coders. And agri produce and minerals of course. There is hardly anything India exports which cannot be done by almost any other country.

Absolutely wrong..First up, trade is conducted on principles of "comaprative advantage", and dear old Ricardo's axiom has stood the tests of time largely - India does stuff that others cannot do as well for the marginal level of input cost..OT, but India in a range of areas today does a lot of cutting edge stuff - small autos, wind power, the emerging areas of battery-operated autos..For those who derisively quote the Indian software companies as cyber coolies, the global delivery models pioneered by the Indians have snce been copied by the likes of IBM, Accenture, Cap GEmini, CSC - the big daddies, just to survive!

Back to the point though, the Paki elite will soon be faced with a fiercer manifestation of the stark choice it is confronting - the class divide between the radical punjabi peasantry and "extra loyal" pakhtoon with the urban elites of Lahore and Islamabad..And they will look for "safe havens"..Flight to quality if you will - the trtaditional havens have been US and UK, but when it comes to physical relocation, India will be a "better" choice for most of them..It is a lever that we can use, it is a useful one..We should at least be thinking it through..

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jan 2010 09:14

somnath wrote: But is there a way we can make a start by trying to attract the "brightest and the best" of the Pakistanis to India?

India has not figured a way of attracting the brightest of the best Indians to India. Those Indians who so help do so out of blind love for India, not because India offers them anything more than historic roots.

At most India can attract Paki musicians and actors. But there is one area of imbalance. Pakistan I think has many more people accomplished in the humanities than India. India produces mainly nerds and techies. Pakistan's PR success in the world can be credited to an accomplished bunch of people who are into the humanities, working for Pakistan from within the West. All we do is lament that foreign sociologists are working on us, but we don't seem to produce any as long as the employment is in coding.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 18 Jan 2010 09:16

The Quranic Concept of War

General S. K Malik; Endorsed by Zia
http://wolfpangloss.files.wordpress.com ... of-war.pdf

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 18 Jan 2010 09:17

Theo_Fidel wrote:The real problem with India is work ethic. Need to end the tea walla and get everyone to the office at 8 in the morning. Our GDP will sprout wings

OT, but really in my experience Indians work harder than most others..Ask an Australian to work after 6 pm on a weekday (or 4 on fridays!) ...Or an American to work over the weekend..Indians do it as part for the course!!But OT here..

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jan 2010 09:17

negi wrote:^ How does that argument even hold water Shiv ji ? In a democracy where does the question of subordination arise ?
Indeed such logic can emanate from pak sar zameen onlee.

The only "argument" as far as I can see is the question of whether the statement that "Muslims ruled Hindus for 1000 years and will not be subjugated" does or does not cause takleef to us.

if the answer is yes, then the Pakis have a handle on making us react at their pleasure

If the answer is no, the statement will stop carrying any weight.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jan 2010 09:20

somnath wrote:
Absolutely wrong..

How much of Indian export earning comes from "cutting edge" technology that India has created? OT

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 18 Jan 2010 09:28

shiv wrote:
somnath wrote: But is there a way we can make a start by trying to attract the "brightest and the best" of the Pakistanis to India?

India has not figured a way of attracting the brightest of the best Indians to India. Those Indians who so help do so out of blind love for India, not because India offers them anything more than historic roots.

At most India can attract Paki musicians and actors. But there is one area of imbalance. Pakistan I think has many more people accomplished in the humanities than India. India produces mainly nerds and techies. Pakistan's PR success in the world can be credited to an accomplished bunch of people who are into the humanities, working for Pakistan from within the West. All we do is lament that foreign sociologists are working on us, but we don't seem to produce any as long as the employment is in coding.

Going a little OT here, but very wrong again..ACross streams, academics (note the recent applications from NRIs for the new IIT in Gujarat or the SAU in Delhi, or regular applications to the IITs/IIMs), professionals in a range of subjects ranging from IT to Finance are com,ing back to India as it offers greater opprotunities..

Pakistan has better "humanities" record? Last I chekced, the no. of economists of repute one can name from Pak is a total of 1 - MAhbub ul Haq..On the other hand, econmics departments are swamped literally by Indians..Ditto with most other liberal arts departments..

Pak does not have good PR in the western world at all - it has created a strategic "vested interest" due to its polciies (of alignment with the US) and lately of gepgraphy...

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 18 Jan 2010 09:30

I would like to restate few things as I understand them:

1. For a sizable population of pakis to seek refuge in kufr Bharat, the talibanization should reach the very heart of pakjabi and Sindh region. This should be one of the lakshmana rekhas for Indian strategists. There can be two possible strategies at this point; (a) repeat of 1971 and creation of Sindhudesh and (b) occupation of pakijab. I am not sure what would we do with the pakijab population at that point. Assuming pakijabi feudals leave the sinking ship, India can ask the pakthuntva to accept all pious in return for the lands across river Sindhu.

B. At no point in this refugee scenario PRC would take part as it would be detrimental to it's own internal security a.k.a Uigher issue.

C. To galvanize Indian interests we would need strong opposition in India, so that the ruling coalition will not get hijacked by WKK brigade. Earlier I hoped that BJP could play that role, but people like Jaswanth Singh scare the hell out of me.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 18 Jan 2010 09:31

shiv wrote:
negi wrote:^ How does that argument even hold water Shiv ji ? In a democracy where does the question of subordination arise ?
Indeed such logic can emanate from pak sar zameen onlee.
The only "argument" as far as I can see is the question of whether the statement that "Muslims ruled Hindus for 1000 years and will not be subjugated" does or does not cause takleef to us.

if the answer is yes, then the Pakis have a handle on making us react at their pleasure

If the answer is no, the statement will stop carrying any weight.

That is like asking the Jews to forget the Holocaust - no one would have the cojones to ask that.
As heard in a synagogue "Forgive, move ahead but do not forget".
Likewise, we need to be wary as hell.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 18 Jan 2010 09:36

shiv wrote:
somnath wrote:
Absolutely wrong..
How much of Indian export earning comes from "cutting edge" technology that India has created? OT

OT, but to clarify the point..Heres the data (not latest, but near enough) on India's commodity export basket:

http://www.rbi.org.in/scripts/Publicati ... x?id=11716

You see the largest contributors? Petroleum and petro products - why? Because Indian refiners like Reliance set up scale refineries that refine oil at a fraction of the cost of western refiners (and no, labour is not the key factor there, its about project management skills)..Chemicals - ditto as above (at least some of it) - Indian chemical plants make a range of chemicals cheaper than anyone else..Engineering - India this year surpassed China in auto exports..Why? Because India is teaching the world how to make small cars!! The list is long...

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Jan 2010 09:38

A lot of OT discussions are going on here, even while accepting they are OT. Please take these elsewhere.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jan 2010 09:49

somnath wrote: Pak does not have good PR in the western world at all - it has created a strategic "vested interest" due to its polciies (of alignment with the US) and lately of gepgraphy...

That is all that matters for the ruling Pakistanis.

I don't want to go OT but I am trying to point out that there is a economic angle to IndiaPakistan links where India's earnings are related to exports via multinational companies. These multinationals have a vested interest in Pakistan.

If you look at the US as a fountain of technological goodies that everyone wants, then you can see how the US is able to open up or choke off tech to various natios to control economies an even the outcome of wars. A lot of Indian talent is tied up with US (and other multinational) companies, so that talented Indians are not necessarily represnting Indian interests directly. The Indian designed core of an INTEL chip earns money for INTEL and the US, not India. Only some individual Indians benefit, not India the nation.

China too has managed to develop the export power to feed/starve other nations as per its national will. India has no managed to do that to anyone - leave alone Pakistan. Our ability to handle Pakistan is hampered by our inability to control the flow of export or the most desirable technological items to various countries of the world. And we don't have Pakistan's geography.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 18 Jan 2010 09:51

vera_k wrote:Terror infrastructure in Pak still intact: Rao

My take on this blowing hot like this, and in the next breath morons ki tamasha: Basically Inddia is agreeing to make love to TSP, but only discreetly and quietly. None of this grand media blitzes. I don't know how else to explain India's bipolar disorder.

.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 18 Jan 2010 09:59

^^^Shiv,

I get your point, but you are contradicting yourself by saying that there is vested "MNC economic" interest in the IndoPak equation and then also saying that India does not have those economic levers..As I pointed out before, even the level of unofficial trade with Pakistan add up to a very small % of India's trade basket - is really a rounding off error..

And exports do not account for leverage, unless it is a strategic resource like oil...Imports do..china leverages its "import" relationships, topping up with aid, with countries in (say) Africa..As a matter of fact, India does it too, more unobtrusively..The US, China or anyone, has no trade levers over any country - all countries under US trade sanctions have survived, some have flourished as well (example: India!)...

for India (or anyone) to "influence", it has to influence "elite" opinion...Same with Pakistan, India has to build up models of "leverage" with them..