Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 18 Jan 2010 10:09

Benazir's killers supposedly identified

The Special Investigation Group (SIG) of the Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) has collected the particulars of four most wanted terrorists involved in the assassination of former prime minister Benazir Bhutto.

Abdullah aka Saddam, a resident of Mohmand Agency

Ikramullah, a resident of South Waziristan.

Faiz Muhammad, a resident of Swabi.

And Ibadur Rehman aka Noman aka Usman, a resident of Attock. He was a close associate of late Baitullah Mehsud and a member of a terrorist cell formed by Nadir Khan of Akora Khattak.

This group joined Baitullah and allegedly killed Benazir Bhutto on December 27, 2007 in a suicide attack. A name ‘Farooq’, purportedly of Ibadur Rehman, also came on the record during interrogations of Hasnain Gul and Rafaqat, who were arrested in connection with a suicide attack on former president Pervez Musharraf on June 6, 2008.

Faiz, along with his accomplice Abdullah, is accused of having delivered suicide jackets and other explosives to Hasnain Gul and Rafaqat in Rawalpindi – both suspects imprisoned in the same case. They are also involved in rocket attack on Kamra airbase. According to data compiled by the SIG, the picture and address of only one terrorist is available so far, sources in SIG told Daily Times.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 18 Jan 2010 10:41

shiv wrote:
Muslims having been rulers in India for long centuries it is not in Muslim psyche to accept a subordinate position
Every intelligent Paki now knows that the way to get Indian langotis knotted up with rage is to say this.
...
I think it may be worth making a list of statements from Pakistan that are custom designed to get Indians angry and lifting their lungis to do a rage dance.

The problem with this statement is not that it gets Indian langoties in a twist, the problem is that it is patently & ridiculously false. This is statement is more likely to make Indians laugh & with mirth than of anything else.

arun · Post by **arun** » 18 Jan 2010 11:52

Complete transcript of the interview of our Foreign Secretary Ms. Nirupama Rao by Karan Thapar for the CNN/IBN programme, Devil's Advocate.

Plenty on the Islamic Republic of Pakistan

Covers issues like the support of jihadi Islamic terrorism targeting India by the Islamic Republic, potential use of the threat of disruption of US supply lines into Afghanistan by the Islamic Republic to coerce US support of its revisionist aims in Jammu & Kashmir, likelihood of resumption of the composite dialogue process between us and the Islamic Republic etc:

CNN – IBN

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 18 Jan 2010 11:55

People who know a bit of history know that this 1000 year thing is nothing but a figment of imagination. Good for propaganda for people like Zaid Hamid. The reality is that power centers in Delhi court were all courting the Marathas by 1750s.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 18 Jan 2010 12:01

surinder wrote:The problem with this statement is not that it gets Indian langoties in a twist,

It does get a certain group all riled up, a group that is usually well represented on BR.

In officialdom all it gets is a sneer.

This is what gets the Pakistani Kurta all askew.

The supercilious contempt from Indian officialdom to all their pontificating..

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 18 Jan 2010 12:09

shiv wrote: As long as industry can sell products in IndiaPakistan, terrorism is not a problem. Terrorism is a problem only for the tourism and aviation industries. I had made a post with some thoughts on IndiaPakistan yesterday - I will merely link it here
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 26#p807526

No doubt there are people who sell things in Pakistan and who would stand to lose from any barrier to that trade. However I don't believe that it's only the tourism and aviation industries that are effected. Safety of both equipment and manpower is important to all industries. Given the liberal oversupply of manpower in most fields I presume a couple of blasts are acceptable as long as only relatively untrained manpower is at stake. Highly trained manpower is still hard to come by however. Which is why I believe the Mumbai attacks was different. This time the targets were the moneyed lot. The lot from which the bulk of the earlier mentioned highly trained manpower is sourced. Which is why they elicited such a strong reaction from industry.

There is also a case to be made for the now steadily growing armaments industry. CII recently released a report on how obsolete the equipment used by the armed forces are. As privatization grows the industry will find it more profitable to trade in bombs than in cars and cobblestones.

Sorry about all the OT posts.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 18 Jan 2010 12:10

arun wrote:Complete transcript of the interview of our Foreign Secretary Ms. Nirupama Rao by Karan Thapar for the CNN/IBN programme, Devil's Advocate.

Plenty on the Islamic Republic of Pakistan

Covers issues like the support of jihadi Islamic terrorism targeting India by the Islamic Republic, potential use of the threat of disruption of US supply lines into Afghanistan by the Islamic Republic to coerce US support of its revisionist aims in Jammu & Kashmir, likelihood of resumption of the composite dialogue process between us and the Islamic Republic etc:

CNN – IBN

So basically Bakis are not getting any dialogue till terror is stopped. Great, WKKs can

.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 18 Jan 2010 12:13

arun wrote:

CNN – IBN

Karan Thapar: So, clearly Pakistan needs to do more before India is convinced that it is effectively responding to the terror India faces which emanates out of Pakistani soil.

Nirupama Rao: Karan, let me say Pakistan can do more.

Karan Thapar: And you are waiting for that before any talks resume.

Nirupama Rao: We wait and we hope Pakistan can do more.

Too meek a statment. Almost begging TSP. If I were a TSP general or an ISI honcho, and see/hear this pleading, I would derive sadistic pleasure on the pain being inflicted on India. Is there any reason to change track?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Jan 2010 13:00

csharma wrote:People who know a bit of history know that this 1000 year thing is nothing but a figment of imagination. Good for propaganda for people like Zaid Hamid.

The trouble is that such a figment of imagination has not been used merely for propaganda purposes. Simple propaganda can be countered or those who know history will not be taken in by such tactics. What we have to recognize is that these patently false sense of ownership and similar pernicious thoughts were used to engineer the mindset of people. Such distortions have been primarily used to justify their legal claims to have been the rightful successor to the British upon their exit from India. The sense of deprivation that the Pakistanis frequently express is a corollary to this supposed cheating by the British and the Hindus. The mohajirs were behind this mainly.

The main culprits of such myth-propagation were the sections of UP-Delhi-Bihari Mussalman who eventually migrated to West & East Pakistan. They appointed themselves as the legatees of the Mughal and Pre-Mughal empires. When these people moved to West & East Pakistan, they were uprooted from their lands and were essentially refugees. They were dreaming of milk and honey flowing in an exotic landscape, but were soon to find out that neither the Punjabis nor the Sindhis nor the Bengalis welcomed these Urdu-speaking and haughty people. The initial euphoria of being the Creators of an Islamic Country was soon ground to dust. The Punjabis accepted their Punjabi brethren from East Punjab because they were the same. The Sindhis never accepted the Urdu speaking people from the Ganga-Jamuna belt. The Biharis were even more alien to the Bengalis of East Pakistan for there was no common ground at all except being Muslims. Language, culture, local customs, food . . . everything was so different for these willing migrants.

Those who migrated to West Pakistan continued to be referred to as 'Hindustani' for a long time to come. That would come as a shock to most migrants who perceived themselves as either an Arab, Turk, Persian or Mongol descendant rather than a Hindustani. It was even an insult. However, they continued to proclaim themselves as the architects of Pakistan and the fact that the Governor General (Jinnah) and the Prime Minister(Liaquat Ali Khan) were from their migrant population gave them inflated egos. The frequent references to 'bulwark of Islam', 'ummah', and 'jihad' by both these leaders gave these people a sense of euphoria that they would, all by themselves, convert Pakistan into the Fortress of Islam. At the same time, the Punjabis resented the fact that Karachi, not Lahore, had been chosen as the centre of the Government. They also resented the fact that two migrants were holding all the power.

When Jinnah and later Liaquat Ali Khan died, and the capital was transferred from Karachi to the Punjab, the mohajirs began to feel desperate. They felt, and rightly so, that while the Sindhis, the Punjabis, the Pathans, the Balochis and the Bengalis had their own land at the end of the day, they were left with nothing. That was when they began to yearn for their Delhi, Lucknow, Agra and the like. They then began to dream the other way about; instead of moth-eaten and mutilated Pakistan, about India. Their latent desires were suitably camouflaged and expressed as 'thousand years', 'legal heirs', 'Redfort', 'Peacock Throne' etc. etc.

The mohajir mullahs led by the likes of Maududi and Usmani had by then hijacked the state and the dangerous designs of Ahl-e-Hadees merged perfectly with the grandiose dreams of the mohajirs and caught the imagination of everyone in Pakistan.

amit · Post by **amit** » 18 Jan 2010 13:10

CRamS wrote:

CNN – IBN

Karan Thapar: So, clearly Pakistan needs to do more before India is convinced that it is effectively responding to the terror India faces which emanates out of Pakistani soil.

Nirupama Rao: Karan, let me say Pakistan can do more.

Karan Thapar: And you are waiting for that before any talks resume.

Nirupama Rao: We wait and we hope Pakistan can do more.

Too meek a statment. Almost begging TSP. If I were a TSP general or an ISI honcho, and see/hear this pleading, I would derive sadistic pleasure on the pain being inflicted on India. Is there any reason to change track?

Someone mentioned a biploar disorder syndrome. Sorry to say but statements like the above seem to me a symptom of just such a disorder.

On the one hand we make fun of the ridiculous statements made by the Pakis - the recent 1,000 year tamasha from Zardari a ready example.

However, when our officials/leaders make balanced diplomatic statements, which carry an undertone which anyone in their business can understand, we say: Hey they are too meek - no cojones yaar!

What would have constituted a "Manly" statement from the Foreign Sec?

Something like this perhaps:

If the @##@$@ Pakis don't stop their terror activities well catch them by the $#@$# and squeeze them so hard that even their goats will cry?

I would request folks to be realistic and read between the lines. As one poster correctly wrote, the Foreign Sec's message, not just to the Pakis but also its 3.5 friends including the Man of Peace Obama, is that no talks still terror stops and the US problem in Afghanistan be damned.

Isn't that enough?

amit · Post by **amit** » 18 Jan 2010 13:22

For folks who haven't read the CNN-IBN interview with the Foreign Sec, here's a excerpt:

Karan Thapar: Foreign Secretary, let us start with Pakistan. Two fidayeen attacks in Kashmir within 24 hours; rocket attacks at Attari and Poonch; frequent firing across the international border; and all of this within the space of a week. How do you view these developments?

Nirupama Rao: With great concern, Karan. Terrorism and the whole phenomenon of cross-border terrorism, as it affects us today has not diminished in any manner. All the events you have seen over the last few days basically point to the basic and undeniable fact that the infrastructure of terrorism which operates out of Pakistan and territory under Pakistan control has not been dismantled and it continues to be directed against the Indian people. It affects ordinary people. Terrorism affects people like you and me.

Karan Thapar: The recent terrorist attack at Lal Chowk in Srinagar was clearly masterminded by handlers in Pakistan. Do you have any idea who they are? Are they the Harkat-ul-Mujahideen as the press suggests? Or could they be the Lashkar-e-Tayyiba who are responsible for 26/11 in Mumbai?

Nirupama Rao: All I would like to say, Karan, is that whichever group they may belong to they are essentially part of the same species. These are terrorism-spewing, violence-generating people who have an agenda, an agenda of violence and mayhem, to pursue.

Karan Thapar: And these are clearly, therefore, people operating out of Pakistan.

Nirupama Rao: Obviously.

Karan Thapar: Do you believe that they have some form of assistance or support from the Pakistani establishment or state?

Nirupama Rao: Let me put it this way. I think the experience over the last two decades would make it very clear to us that this has been an instrument of state policy which has been pursued by agencies within Pakistan.

To me that Ms Rao's responses come across as professional and no-nonsense. She seems to be very clear in her thinking of what to do with Pakistan. I don't see any meekness. Her responses certainly seem better than her predecessor.

negi · Post by **negi** » 18 Jan 2010 13:35

Amit mian you are over reacting the point is all said and done if people cant call a spade a spade then what sort of expectations can be had from them ?

for instance

Karan Thapar: Do you believe that they have some form of assistance or support from the Pakistani establishment or state?

Nirupama Rao: Let me put it this way. I think the experience over the last two decades would make it very clear to us that this has been an instrument of state policy which has been pursued by agencies within Pakistan.

'I think' ,'let me put it this way' , 'agencies' ,seriously is this a joke ?

Well why not name the ISI and TSPA instead of beating around the bush ? Don't we have enough evidence to even state the fact and if we don't after all these years then boy I rest my case.

Btw who does GOI fear when it comes to calling TSP's bluff ? And all this while we have allegations of Indian involvement in terrorist acts in TSP being aired,printed umpteen times by the TSP media at behest of GOP hell Geelani and Mallik do this all day long.

amit · Post by **amit** » 18 Jan 2010 13:39

negi wrote:Amit mian you are over reacting the point is all said and done if people cant call a spade a spade then what sort of expectations can be had from them ?

I seem know all the sensitive points to press to start a debate.

Negi ji maybe I'm not seeing it the correct way. Why don't you do me a favour and just as a thought experiment, why don't you re-craft the statements you quoted from the Foreign Sec to reflect what you and and others would consider to be a just and hard statement as opposed to a "meek" one?

Added later:

Just a further point. Doesn't these two replies from the Foreign Sec fulfil your condition of naming names?

Nirupama Rao: All I would like to say, Karan, is that whichever group they may belong to they are essentially part of the same species. These are terrorism-spewing, violence-generating people who have an agenda, an agenda of violence and mayhem, to pursue.

Nirupama Rao: Let me put it this way. I think the experience over the last two decades would make it very clear to us that this has been an instrument of state policy which has been pursued by agencies within Pakistan.

I'd suggest you ignore the I think stuff. Indians of the Ms Rao's generation have grown up with a tendency towards verbosity as far as the English language is concerned. You'll find it in almost any GoI release.

Also, how much value addition would there have been by naming ISI and TSPA when she says Terrorism is an instrument of state policy?

JMT

sreeji · Post by **sreeji** » 18 Jan 2010 13:58

Is it possible that we have quietly eliminated Dawood ibrahim and other assorted anti India terrorists in pakistan taking advantage of the mayhem there? The pakistanis cannot show this as proof of Indian involvement in pakistan and can only rant and rave about having evidences which they will reveal at appropriate time.

negi · Post by **negi** » 18 Jan 2010 13:59

It is not about HARD or a SOFT statement its about stating the TRUTH from what I gather from the interview Indian diplomacy has been stuck in a time warp for their response to pointed questions regarding GOP's involvement in terror has as usual been ambiguous and bordering on PCness , if GOI itself cannot assert itself in these matters how can we expect Unkil or anyone else to believe our side of the story ?

If foreign secretary of India uses phrases like "Let me put it this way. I think the experience over the last two decades would make it very clear to us that this has been an instrument of state policy which has been pursued by agencies within Pakistan." when asked a simple question i.e. "Do you believe that they have some form of assistance or support from the Pakistani establishment or state?"

So Indian establishment in these 20 years still 'thinks' that certain 'agencies' within TSP aid terrorist activities against India good going .Come to think of it why should the rest of the world or even USA corner TSP over 26/11 or any such terrorist attack when the victim itself is not sure about the culprit ?

animesharma · Post by **animesharma** » 18 Jan 2010 14:03

Taliban militants attack Afghan capital

The attack seems to be using same tactics as of mumbai attack. AS per latest news,taliban claimed 20 sucide bomber have attacked kabul.
reuter has termed it a commando style op.
One managed to reach presidential palace, the other attacks are on business and commerce centers.

negi · Post by **negi** » 18 Jan 2010 14:04

Amit main I am no wordsmith and I believe your word on GOI's competence when it comes to word play , oh yeah S.E.S comes to my mind .

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Jan 2010 14:18

When Pak was created,the first thing that its founder and rulers did was to "circumcise" their heritage of millenia of belonging to the Indian subcontinent.Anything Indian was "Hindu" and to be despised.Pak did try searching for its roots,like the Frenchies hunting the Scarlet Pimpernel (with aplogies to Baronness Orczy),"they seek it here,they seek it there,the Pakis seek it everywhere,is it in hell or with the Taliban,that demmed elusive Pakistan?" Was their new state actually part of Arabia or S-E ASia ,or the Islamic world of the Middle East? Pak sought it here,there and everywhere but never looked beneath its feet in search of its roots.It ignored its immense heritage that was non-Islamic and its hideous offspring the Taliban even blew up Afghan's Bamiyan Buddhas! It has now come to the brink of collapse where almost every institution has had a hand in runing or rather ruining the country and has failed its people miserably.Kept alive by the drip of US aid and Chinese nuclear steroids,Pak still has enough of life in it to cause great damage to the region and far beyond.It has spread the culture of hatred and the suicide bomber across the oceans,taking deep root in the UK in particular,whose capital the CIA refers to as "Londonistan"!

Until the Pak nation in its entirety realise that its true roots lie in the ancient heritage of the Indian subcontinent and all that that entails,which requires it to be a true and faithful "brother" to India,remving the hatred in its heart,it is time to batten the hatches,monitor the maritime boundary,elecrtify the fences,sow the land mines and isolate the country as far as possible from the pestilential disease that is Paki terrorism.Call it by any initial,LET,HUM,ISI or whatever,as the bard said,"a Paki terrorist by any name is stil a Paki terrorist".There is little concrete evidence emanating from the Paki elite that controls the country that there is a serious rethink about its animosity and hatred of India and its pursuance of terror remains the fundamental of its state policy.I'm afraid that all the PR work and efforts by the TOI and Paki media will not be enough to convince ordinary Indians who suffer from Paki terror that a change of heart has happened in that land.Fundamentally,the uniformed tribes of Pak have to change their anti-Indian attitude and first stop sponsoring and sympathising with cross-border terrorism.From Zardari's clarion cry for a 1000 year war with us over Kashmir,it appears that nothing will change.One must also remind him how short-lived another far more powerful and victorious 1000 year Reich lasted.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Jan 2010 14:24

Both Zulfikar A Bhutto and Benazir talked about 1000 year wars. They did not live to see how the movie ends. Now it is Zardari's turn...

When Nawaz Sharif visited Washington during Kargil, he told Clinton that India was ruled by "Hindu terrorists (i.e. BJP)."

amit · Post by **amit** » 18 Jan 2010 14:26

negi wrote:Amit main I am no wordsmith and I believe your word on GOI's competence when it comes to word play , oh yeah S.E.S comes to my mind .

Negi ji SES was a fiasco, I think that point has been proven quite comprehensively. Having said that, however, I don't think it serves any purpose of bringing it out like a Rabbit from a Hat every time a discussion on India's foreign policy takes place. That also suggest a kind of time wrap.

The point of discord, as I see it, is that Indian Foreign Ministry Mandarins have Diplomatise language too much ingrained in themselves for true blue jingos. And that makes the latter howl in disapproval.

Which is fine as the jingo constituency, both within and outside BRF, serve as a vital pressure group which should keep the GoI from enacting fiascos like SES, the Lahore Bus Jatra, Agra and the Gujral doctrine - to name just a few. (I guess this is more a hope on my part than conviction).

However, for analysis purposes I think what happens on the ground is more important than the language used to state India's position.

OT here but India's stand on CTBT is case in point on what happens on the ground being more important than the language (or verbosity) used to state India's position. The language used by Indian pointsmen made many believe that Obama would arm twist the Sardar into signing on the dotted line. But it really didn't happen did it?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 18 Jan 2010 14:33

amit wrote:
However, for analysis purposes I think what happens on the ground is more important than the language used to state India's position.

OT here but India's stand on CTBT is case in point on what happens on the ground being more important than the language (or verbosity) used to state India's position.

Amit ji the problem is not the language alone, the point is that we jingo want so many more of our country men (including the powers in GoI) to be so much more jingo like that a far more stronger language which is also completely consistent with the "stand" we want GoI to have.

We look always look at language with the fond hope that it is the precursor to what is going to be the next stand.

I hope you get it this time (the reason we diss and cuss the GoI language) -- note I dont expect you to agree, just understand where we are coming from.

amit · Post by **amit** » 18 Jan 2010 14:43

Sanku,

At the risk of repeating myself let me restate what I've been trying to say for your behalf.

I think what happens on the ground is more important than the language. The gist of what I understand the Foreign Sec as conveying in the interview is that there will be no talks with Pakistan (despite US nudging - please note this is important) till India is satisfied that the terror infra has been dismantled. Of course Pakistan will disintegrate before the terror infra is dismantled. So IMHO I think the Foreign Sec's words are directed as much to US of A as it is to Pakistan.

I understand, however, that this may not be etched in stone and tomorrow there could be a volte face on the part of GoI. But then that's part of tomorrow's discussion. What I'm concerned with here is what is the key takeaway from the Foreign Sec's interview today.

Anyway my last post on this topic.

Cheers!

arun · Post by **arun** » 18 Jan 2010 15:10

Masaru wrote:Elite US troops ready to combat Pakistani nuclear hijacks

{Snipped} ...........................

Christina Lamb gets Shireen Mazari’s Goat:

Deliberate lies & distortions

Meanwhile the spokesperson of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Foreign Office, Abdul Basit, also articulates his takleef with Christina Lamb’s article in the Sunday Times:

Pakistan rejects Sunday Times’s assertions on nuke hijacks

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 18 Jan 2010 15:16

amit wrote:Sanku,

At the risk of repeating myself let me restate what I've been trying to say for your behalf.

I think what happens on the ground is more important than the language. The gist of what I understand the Foreign Sec as conveying in the interview is that there will be no talks with Pakistan (despite US nudging - please note this is important) till India is satisfied that the terror infra has been dismantled. Of course Pakistan will disintegrate before the terror infra is dismantled. So IMHO I think the Foreign Sec's words are directed as much to US of A as it is to Pakistan.

I understand, however, that this may not be etched in stone and tomorrow there could be a volte face on the part of GoI. But then that's part of tomorrow's discussion. What I'm concerned with here is what is the key takeaway from the Foreign Sec's interview today.

Anyway my last post on this topic.

Cheers!

No you do not understand, a wishy washy tepid murmur of "no talks" feels like some one who is holding out in a torture cell from giving information.

Both the public "no talks" stand as well the the private "lets fix the TSP problem" stand does not match what we jingos are looking for.

You really need to understand that.

arun · Post by **arun** » 18 Jan 2010 15:17

US Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, Richard Holbrooke dashes fond hopes in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan that the US would mediate between India and the Islamic Republic:

“We are not intermediating between Islamabad and New Delhi.”

Reuters

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan was touting US agreement of mediation as a foreign policy success a scant three days ago

.

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Minister for Kashmir Affairs and Gilgit-Baltistan, Mian Manzoor Ahmed Wattoo:

US agrees to mediate between Pakistan, India over Kashmir issue

GILGIT, Jan 15 (APP): Federal Minister for Kashmir Affairs and Gilgit-Baltistan, Mian Manzoor Ahmed Wattoo on Friday said, It is the success of foreign policies of Pakistan People’s Party that the United States for the first time has agreed to mediate between Pakistan and India over Kashmir issue. This, he said while addressing a press conference here. …………………

Associated Press of Pakistan

amit · Post by **amit** » 18 Jan 2010 15:42

^^^^^

Arun,

Thanks for posting the above. I think this should be read with our Foreign Sec's interview about no talks with Pakistan till...

negi · Post by **negi** » 18 Jan 2010 15:47

amit wrote: However, for analysis purposes I think what happens on the ground is more important than the language used to state India's position.

This one takes the cake what preemptive actions has GOI taken in past 20 years of TSP sponsored terror ? name 'ONE" Amit mian . Leave alone preemptive action what has GOI done to ensure that with every Kargil or 26/11 type misadventure there would be a cost which TSP will have to endure so that the latter desists or thinks twice before embarking upon a similar misadventure ? Now if GOI wishes to trample the GOP under tonnes of dossier or raising dust by mobilizing troops under some op 'Parakram' then its a different matter.

So we all are here eager to know as to where and what is this earth shattering stuff happening on GROUND ?

OT here but India's stand on CTBT is case in point on what happens on the ground being more important than the language (or verbosity) used to state India's position. The language used by Indian pointsmen made many believe that Obama would arm twist the Sardar into signing on the dotted line. But it really didn't happen did it?

Oh come on CTBT is a walk in a park US has not ratified it and no one is holding the gun against our head to sign it , none of the governments in the past have made any commitment to sign it .So MMS only deserves credit for maintaining status quo and I guess they are doing it in area of Indian diplomacy and TSP sponsored terror too .

amit · Post by **amit** » 18 Jan 2010 16:07

Peace Negi ji. Yes you're right Nirupama Rao showed that Indian MEA, GoI, politicos et al are full of wimps.

We'll have to wait till such time true blood Indian Mahdi (aka, jingo) comes to power. Then... if nothing else the language will be wah, wah! That should be enough to satisfy any blue blooded jingo. After all any pre-emptive action taken by even a jingo government will not be done after issuing a Press release or after sending a demarche to resident jingos on BRF! We would only get to see the after effects. Perhaps the Paki cities and countryside would be burning with internecine violence engineered by Jingo-led India =?

But it's nice to see that you give credit to MMS for maintaining status quo on CTBT. I wonder what else he could have done, if we discount the possibility of India signing. And it's refreshing to hear from you that no one was/is holding a gun to our head on CTBT. If you look into the archives around Sept-Oct timeframe you'd see a very different tune was played on BRF.

negi · Post by **negi** » 18 Jan 2010 16:17

Amit mian you dodge the question and resort to Jingo bashing eh nice ploy Chanakian to say the least.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 18 Jan 2010 16:22

Amit ji --

A severely distorted picture of what Negi (and me) is saying, clearly you have nothing to say in response to Negi's wish for a stronger GoI actions and words, thus you take the path of trying to laugh your way out of it.

I would have been tempted to say the loss is yours, but the reality is that many of us Indians are so satisfied with the minuscule steps (dare I say crumbs) of the world that we cant see that the entire roti is ours.

We are used to "adjust maadi" and are always worried about loosing even the soiled loin cloth that we are busy lampooning others who think more is due.

amit · Post by **amit** » 18 Jan 2010 16:26

negi wrote:Amit mian you dodge the question and resort to Jingo bashing eh nice ploy Chanakian to say the least.

Sigh Negi,

I'm not dodging anything. I've repeated myself ad infinitum. My point, the quality of language doesn't mater. What does is what happens on the ground and the gist of what the Foreign Sec seems to be saying - as per my understanding - is that no talks with Pak despite US pressure (see Arun's post to understand what I'm saying).

To me that's more important than any fire and brimstone rhetoric.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. If not let's agree to disagree. Let's not trade friendly fire.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jan 2010 16:31

Philip wrote: Until the Pak nation in its entirety realise that its true roots lie in the ancient heritage of the Indian subcontinent and all that that entails,which requires it to be a true and faithful "brother" to India,remving the hatred in its heart,it is time to batten the hatches,monitor the maritime boundary,elecrtify the fences,sow the land mines and isolate the country as far as possible from the pestilential disease that is Paki terrorism.

Now here is a statement that should get Paki langotis in a twist, crushing to powder the piece of brick concealed therein.

negi · Post by **negi** » 18 Jan 2010 16:42

amit wrote: My point, the quality of language doesn't mater. What does is what happens on the ground

Fair enough hence my question was what has CHANGED or HAPPENED on the ground ? My point is if GOI aint capable of doing nothing at least make the stand clear at least people would know right intentions exist and an attempt was made.

and the gist of what the Foreign Sec seems to be saying - as per my understanding - is that no talks with Pak despite US pressure (see Arun's post to understand what I'm saying).

I thought talks/whatever already took place at S.e.S.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jan 2010 16:46

anjan wrote:
There is also a case to be made for the now steadily growing armaments industry. CII recently released a report on how obsolete the equipment used by the armed forces are. As privatization grows the industry will find it more profitable to trade in bombs than in cars and cobblestones.

Pakistan's worst nightmare is an India that can handle Pakistan in its stride without breaking step. All rhetoric comes to a chilling halt when India starts talking with that kind of power behind it. Every time a hint of that is made - such as the recent overblown statement by Gen Kapoor Pakistan starts hinting at nuclear weapon usage.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 18 Jan 2010 16:58

http://blog.dawn.com/2010/01/18/piyo-pe ... rom-terror

Guess who is the latest RAPE paklurk Journo in BENIS ?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 18 Jan 2010 17:11

Lilo wrote:http://blog.dawn.com/2010/01/18/piyo-pe ... rom-terror
Guess who is the latest RAPE paklurk Journo in BENIS ?

“’Pee’ se Pepsi, ‘Pee’ se Pakistan,”

Says it all.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 18 Jan 2010 17:19

Detained Americans complain of torture in Pakistan

Two of them are of Pakistani ancestry, one of Egyptian, one of Yemeni and one of Eritrean.

“We are being tortured, we are being tortured,”

“None of the five men said anything of the sort in the court. As far as I know, one of these men had a stomach problem,”

(T)hey had only wanted to give fellow Muslims in Afghanistan financial and medical aid.

amit · Post by **amit** » 18 Jan 2010 17:26

Re: http://blog.dawn.com/2010/01/18/piyo-pe ... rom-terror

What happens when the Mullahs learn that Pepsi is run by an Indian and that too a lady?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 18 Jan 2010 18:12

arun wrote:Christina Lamb gets Shireen Mazari’s Goat

Associating Shrilleen with "goat" is not fair to the goat. "Marbles" is a better term. Shrilleen loses her marbles everytime she opens her mouth.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 18 Jan 2010 18:40

Philip wrote:When Pak was created,the first thing that its founder and rulers did was to "circumcise" their heritage of millenia of belonging to the Indian subcontinent.Anything Indian was "Hindu" and to be despised.Pak did try searching for its roots,like the Frenchies hunting the Scarlet Pimpernel (with aplogies to Baronness Orczy),"they seek it here,they seek it there,the Pakis seek it everywhere,is it in hell or with the Taliban,that demmed elusive Pakistan?" Was their new state actually part of Arabia or S-E ASia ,or the Islamic world of the Middle East? Pak sought it here,there and everywhere but never looked beneath its feet in search of its roots.It ignored its immense heritage that was non-Islamic and its hideous offspring the Taliban even blew up Afghan's Bamiyan Buddhas! It has now come to the brink of collapse where almost every institution has had a hand in runing or rather ruining the country and has failed its people miserably.Kept alive by the drip of US aid and Chinese nuclear steroids,Pak still has enough of life in it to cause great damage to the region and far beyond.It has spread the culture of hatred and the suicide bomber across the oceans,taking deep root in the UK in particular,whose capital the CIA refers to as "Londonistan"!

Until the Pak nation in its entirety realise that its true roots lie in the ancient heritage of the Indian subcontinent and all that that entails,which requires it to be a true and faithful "brother" to India,remving the hatred in its heart,it is time to batten the hatches,monitor the maritime boundary,elecrtify the fences,sow the land mines and isolate the country as far as possible from the pestilential disease that is Paki terrorism.Call it by any initial,LET,HUM,ISI or whatever,as the bard said,"a Paki terrorist by any name is stil a Paki terrorist".There is little concrete evidence emanating from the Paki elite that controls the country that there is a serious rethink about its animosity and hatred of India and its pursuance of terror remains the fundamental of its state policy.I'm afraid that all the PR work and efforts by the TOI and Paki media will not be enough to convince ordinary Indians who suffer from Paki terror that a change of heart has happened in that land.Fundamentally,the uniformed tribes of Pak have to change their anti-Indian attitude and first stop sponsoring and sympathising with cross-border terrorism.From Zardari's clarion cry for a 1000 year war with us over Kashmir,it appears that nothing will change.One must also remind him how short-lived another far more powerful and victorious 1000 year Reich lasted.

excellent Phillip, could not agree more.