Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

[amdavadi]

Pakis should have known what was going to happen.When IPL decided to hold auction at trident hotel.

[Karna_A]

Tell me one good thing that India could have gained by allowing Pakis into IPL.
Goodwill of ordinary and elite Pakis? Is it important ?

I am neither for allowing Pakis in the IPL, nor for WKK. I only wished exclusion of Pakis from IPL was handled in a better way.

You are right in the pre 26/11 world. However, 26/11 crossed a major line of decency and the tamasha of the Headley/Courts since then has only soldified the resolve.
The worst that could have happened has already happened.
TSP is slowly going to be marginalized by everyone including it's 3.5 friends, and its passport has become a Red flag as no one wants fasadis in their land. Even in early 1990s, at Bahrain, my Arab landlord said he despised Pakis and preferred Hindu Indians to Paki Muslims.

[Prem]

http://www.opednews.com/articles/-Vicer ... 8-396.html

The US special envoy for Pakistan and Afghanistan, Richard Holbrooke, met in Lahore last Friday with a number of Pakistani parliamentarians as US drone missiles were attacking targets in North Waziristan killing at least 11 people. It was the ninth drone attack so far this year to be carried out by the US drones.Holbrooke was furious when parliamentarians demanded that the drone attacks should be stopped as they were causing massive civilian casualties and creating bad image for the United States.Not surprisingly he is called "American Viceroy of Pakistan" by many media outlets in Pakistan. His furious response to the criticism of US policy was that Pakistanis are ungrateful people.Holbrooke said the US was making sincere efforts for the wellbeing of the underprivileged people of Pakistan which are not being admitted by the Pakistanis. He was alluding to the 7.5 billion dollars US pledged to Pakistan in the next five years.

As I was finalizing this article another drone attack was reported. On Sunday, U.S. drone fired on a house in South Waziristan, killing 20 people. This was the 11th such attack ( i.e 1.5 appearance a day by the Reaper of Kandhar) since a deadly suicide attack on Dec 30 against a remote CIA base in Afghanistan's Khost province that killed seven of the agency's employees. Pakistani intelligence sources were quoted as saying that five Uzbek militants were among those killed in the latest drone strike. However, as usual, no body was produced to confirm the authenticity of the claim.

[Rupesh]

X-Posted from the Purkha forum

,

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[Rahul Shukla]

India underestimates Pak defence capability: Attique (Pak Observer)

Rawalpindi—Former Prime Minister of AJK and President of ruling All Jammu and Kashmir Muslim Conference, Sardar Attique Ahmed Khan said here on Monday that the recent statement by Indian Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor was ridiculous as the Indian General under-estimated the defence capability of Pakistan.

In an exclusive interview with Pakistan Observer, he said Pakistan armed forces had proved their mettle in 1965 war. As for 1971 war, he said it could not be termed as a war in real sense. It was a conspiracy against Pakistan.

He said, India is faced with grave internal crisis and Ka-poor’s statement is to divert the attention of Indian people through such tall talks.

The former AJK Prime Minister said through issuing threatening statement by General Kapoor, India was testing the political muscles of our leadership. The people of Pakistan have demonstrated their will and skill in such like situation. The people of Pakistan have proved this in the past and are ready to defend their motherland. They have and will always stand like a rock behind their armed forces, which are fully capable of repelling any aggression. “Let there be no doubt in anybody’s mind” he warned.

Sardar Attique Ahmed said Indian General Kapoor has realised the hollowness of his threat to Pakistan by stating that Pakistan armed forces have overwhelming night vision fighting capability and in better fighting position than India. He said he was glad that China has ignored Kapoor’s warmongering statement with the contempt it deserved.

I would like to extend my sincerest thanks to the authors of this article for eliminating all doubts in my mind regarding 1971 Indo-Pak war. I knew the whole episode was just a minor skirmish blown out of proportion by the YYY. Pakistan, showing its superior moral standing, itself allowed Bangladesh to be created while keeping yindoo army at bay who wanted to prevent this historic milestone from occuring.

I would also like to thank the superior English speaking editors of the newspaper for correctly spelling out the name of the Indian Army Chief as "Ka-poor" rightly pointing out his SDRE roots vs. the TFTA martials. In what world could the Indian Army ever defeat the mighty Pakistani forces? That surely has never happened and will never happen. AOA!

[MurthyB]

Pakis are the most ungrateful b***** around. Those who think that India allowing them to play in the IPL earns goodwill haven't seen the general Lahori logic pakis use for these situations. Generally, if a Paki is allowed to do something, it is because they are so good that the kaffirs are dying to be blessed with their superior presence. If they are denied, then it's because the kuffar's tendency for abject discrimination and hatred for the faithfools. The same attitude is observed when Indian Muslim film stars are mentioned. Of-course, that's because muslims are superior in every way and those SDREs worship them. If they are not successful, then it's discrimination. If a paki singer makes it in India, that's because India has no talent at all, it's all muslim-paki talent, and even trash from pakistan will make it in india. If a paki singer fails, then it's discrimination, jealousy etc etc. If India touts the Taj Mahal, then it's because India has no other history or edifice worthy of name other than muslim ones. If some muslim thing is found to be in abject condition in India, well that proves the need for pakistan. There's absolutely no goodwill or reason anywhere.

This IPL thing sounds like capitalist democracy is starting to show signs of working in India. Pakis are just becoming bad for business, more than anything else

[pran]

I would like to extend my sincerest thanks to the authors of this article for eliminating all doubts in my mind regarding 1971 Indo-Pak war. I knew the whole episode was just a minor skirmish blown out of proportion by the YYY. Pakistan, showing its superior moral standing, itself allowed Bangladesh to be created while keeping yindoo army at bay who wanted to prevent this historic milestone from occuring.

And 90000 Pakis sacrificed their precious H&D to make that happen. Yo Pakis now that you know SDRE's are night blind and your panda express showed their ignorance, you should be proud. Now go and serve your master and keep an eye on your national bird.

[shiv]

Do I see a hint of fear on BRF of more terrorism because Paki players were not selected?

I am afraid that the way the Pakis are humiliated now will make India more vulnerable to Paki sponsored terrorist attacks before or during IPL. I do believe that the anti-India terror valve is in the hands of Paki establishment. That the last one year was relatively peaceful may not have much to do with Chidambaram & Co's work, but more to do with Pakistan's own reasons (hope they are afraid that India would retaliate). Until we have sufficient confidence in our internal security apparatus, we should desist from humiliating them this badly. As much as I hate seeing Indian spectators applauding Paki cricketers, I think we should have prevented them from participating in IPL in a more straight-forward way.

Ah thanks for this gem. So Pakistanis sponsor terror in India because India is humiliating them and that avoidance of such humiliation will stop the terror. Now we need a list of things that humiliate Pakistanis.

[Anantha]

Several Paki players today have said do not mix politics and sport. Actually what is left unsaid is Paki Terrorist activities will continue on one side, while the cricketers can make money on the other side.
On 26/11, we have not seen till date a single paki cricketer accepting what paki Govt/ non state actors/actresses did was wrong and that their country was heading in the wrong direction. In fact a couple of weeks ago Mohd Yusuf was trying to convert Daniel Vettori while in NZ.
The Paki players deserved this insult.
Anyone still wishing we should be soft on Paki cricketers needs to get their heads examined.
What will the Pakis do? Plot more terrorist attack? That has not reduced anyway. We need to protect ourselves regardless.
One of the finest days we have had in years!!

[negi]

He forgot to mention how TSPA in 1971 inflicted severe economic damages to Indian economy by cleverly slipping in their 90,000 odd troops under the operation code name "Rice Eater" tm.



tm: Dilbu

[shiv]

I am convinced that some BIG gun influenced this decision not to field paki players. Any guesses who this person might be?.

Col Prohit.

[munna]

I am convinced that some BIG gun influenced this decision not to field paki players. Any guesses who this person might be?.

Col Prohit.

Shivji this is the second time this year that you have caused me to spill coffee on my lap!!

[shiv]

Solution is quite simple, mark passport with flight details. Cross check those with boarding pass.

For Pakis - brand their passport and flight details on their peach complexioned asses and promise to pat them down before they enter. That should give them a high as well

[Vivek_A]

Extra serving of jalebi this week...

A two-front threat emerging for Pakistan
By: Shireeen M Mazari | Published: January 20, 2010

ISLAMABAD – A nightmare security scenario for Pakistan seems to be emerging - that of a two-front military conflict. Pakistan is already facing an internal militancy aided and abetted from Afghanistan and is threatened with all manner of likely US boots actually coming into Pakistan. Already, the drone attacks on Pakistani soil have increased. For all these reasons, Pakistan has moved a large chunk of its forces away from its Eastern border with India and along the LoC, and moved them to the Western front along the international border with Afghanistan as well as into FATA.
Now India has upped the military ante against Pakistan after meetings between Indian officials and America’s Holbrooke and Gates. Hence we are seeing the unprovoked Indian military firing at Pakistani forces across the international border, the working boundary and across the LoC, which has resulted in death and injury for Pakistani soldiers. What can possibly be the Indian intent at this time to undertake such military adventurism? Had it been given some go-ahead by the Americans.
This new military provocation comes when there seems to have been a decision made by the British and Americans to give India a major military role in Afghanistan. The two allies are all set to spring this nasty decision onto Pakistan at the international conference on Afghanistan in London at the end of this month when it will be proposed that India train the Afghan National Army - something it is already doing at a small level covertly and on that pretext already has its operatives in Afghanistan. It is these operatives who are conducting the aid and assistance to militants within Pakistan.
In view of these developments, what are the immediate options for Pakistan which will protect its interests as well as signal an effective message to both the US and India?

[pgbhat]

[url=http://www.thenews.com.pkdaily_detail.asp?id=219754J]JI slams ignoring Pak cricketers in IPL auction[/url]

AMEER Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) Syed Munawar Hasan has said that ignoring Pakistani cricketers in the Indian Premier League (IPL) auction despite an official invitation to them is an insult to the entire Pakistani nation.

Besides, he said it was also a slap on the face of those striving for confidence building between the two countries through artificial means.

He said this had fully established India’s treachery and duplicity and proved beyond doubt that India could never be sincere towards Pakistan. He said in view of the New Delhi’s attitude, there was no justification for going for test matches or ODIs with India. There should be a complete ban on Pakistan-India matches and the Pakistani players should also give priority to national honour over money.

[shiv]

The GoI has the luxury of making an unofficial spokesman say things that its official spokesperson cannot say - to keep itself in the position of "We are saying also but we are not saying anything"
This is with reference to what Nirupama Rao said and what KS says (below)

Why they choose to do it in this way is open to speculation - I have some views on that like others have theirs.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2010/20100119/edit.htm#4

Here is a government which moves the UN to set up a panel to enquire into the assassination, as it believed that the country’s own enquiries earlier conducted were not credible. And when the panel arrives in Pakistan it is unable to order its Army and intelligence officers to depose before it. This happens in respect of the terrorist assassination of the tallest leader of the ruling party and the wife of the present President.

<snip>

Pakistanis highlight that their Army is fighting the terrorist Pakistani Taliban. Why then are the Pakistan Army and the intelligence network fighting shy of deposing before the UN panel? If the Pakistan Government cannot discipline the Army to depose in a case of assassination of the ruling party’s leader what credibility does that government has in fighting terrorism?

<snip>

While Pakistan is maintaining that the Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) was banned in 2002, the FBI of the US has filed its indictments against David Headley and Tahawwur Rana that they were financed by the LeT to carry out the reconnaissance which ended in the 26/11 attack in Mumbai.

<snip>

These issues relate to the basic credibility of the Pakistani claim that they are fighting terrorism,

[chetak]

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -depth-910

Defining ‘strategic depth’
By Kamran Shafi
Tuesday, 19 Jan, 2010


Will our army pack its bags and escape into Afghanistan to disengage itself from the fighting, if India goes to war with Pakistan? –Photo by AP

And how does it help us? We are engaged in the Great Game in Afghanistan, we are told, because ‘strategic depth’ is vital for Pakistan due to the fact that our country is very narrow at its middle and could well be cut into half by an Indian attack in force.

Strategic depth, we are further informed, will give respite to our armed forces which could withdraw into Afghanistan to then regroup and mount counter-attacks on Indian forces in Pakistan. I ask you!

I ask you for several reasons. Let us presume that the Indians are foolish enough to get distracted from educating their people, some of whom go to some of the best centres of learning in the world. Let us assume that they are idiotic enough to opt for war instead of industrialising themselves and meeting their economic growth targets which are among the highest in the world.

Let us imagine that they are cretinous enough to go to war with a nuclear-armed Pakistan and effectively put an immediate and complete end to their multi-million dollar tourism industry. Let us suppose that they lose all sense, all reason, and actually attack Pakistan and cut our country into half.

Will our army pack its bags and escape into Afghanistan? How will it disengage itself from the fighting? What route will it use, through which mountain passes? Will the Peshawar Corps gun its tanks and troop carriers and trucks and towed artillery and head into the Khyber Pass, and on to Jalalabad? Will the Karachi and Quetta Corps do likewise through the Bolan and Khojak passes?

And what happens to the Lahore and Sialkot and Multan and Gujranwala and Bahawalpur and other garrisons? What about the air force? Far more than anything else, what about the by now 180 million people of the country? What ‘strategic depth’ do our Rommels and Guderians talk about, please? What poppycock is this?

More importantly, how can Afghanistan be our ‘strategic depth’ when most Afghans hate our guts, not only the northerners, but even those who call themselves Pakhtuns?

Case in point: the absolute and repeated refusal of even the Taliban government when it was misruling Afghanistan, to accept the Durand Line as the international border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, despite the fact that it was a surrogate of Pakistan — propped into power; paid for; and helped militarily, diplomatically and politically by the Pakistani government and its ‘agencies’.

Indeed, it even refused the Commando’s interior minister, the loudmouth Gen Moinuddin Haider when he went to Kabul to ask for the extradition of Pakistani criminals being sheltered by the Taliban. We must remember that the Commando, as chief executive of the country, was pressing the Foreign Office till just a few days before 9/11 to use every effort to have the Taliban regime’ recognised by more countries!

This poppycock of ‘strategic depth’ can only be explained by our great military thinkers and strategists and geniuses: it is not for mortals like yours truly to make sense of any of it. Particularly because this nonsense can only happen after the Americans depart from Afghanistan. And what, pray, is the guarantee that they will leave when they say they will?

Why this subject at this time, you might well ask. Well I have just been reading David Sanger’s The Inheritance in which he meticulously lays out the reasons why he believes the Pakistani “dual policy” towards the Taliban exists.

On page 247 he states that when Michael McConnell, the then chief of US National Intelligence went to Pakistan in late May 2008 (three months after the elections that trounced Musharraf and his King’s Party, mark) he heard Pakistani officers make the case for the Pakistani need for having a friendly government in Kabul after the Americans departed.

When he got back to Washington McConnell “ordered up a full assessment” of the situation. ‘It did not take long … Musharraf’s record of duplicity was well known. While Kayani was a favourite of the White House, he had also been overheard — presumably on telephone intercepts — referring to one of the most brutal of the Taliban leaders, Maulvi Jalaluddin Haqqani, as a “strategic asset”. Interesting, for Kayani’s former boss, Musharraf is quoted thus in Der Spiegel:

Spiegel: “Let us talk about the role of the ISI. A short time ago, US newspapers reported that ISI has systematically supported Taliban groups. Is that true?”

Musharraf: “Intelligence always has access to other networks — this is what Americans did with KGB, this is what ISI also does. You should understand that the army is on board to fight the Taliban and Al Qaeda. I have always been against the Taliban. Don’t try to lecture us about how we should handle this tactically. I will give you an example: Siraj Haqqani ...”

Spiegel: “... a powerful Taliban commander who is allegedly secretly allied with the ISI.”

Musharraf: “He is the man who has influence over Baitullah Mehsud, a dangerous terrorist, the fiercest commander in South Waziristan and the murderer of Benazir Bhutto as we know today. Mehsud kidnapped our ambassador in Kabul and our intelligence used Haqqani’s influence to get him released. Now, that does not mean that Haqqani is supported by us. The intelligence service is using certain enemies against other enemies. And it is better to tackle them one by one than making them all enemies.”

Well, there they go again!

But back to ‘strategic depth’. Will the likes of Sirajuddin Haqqani, son of Jalaluddin Haqqani, help Pakistan gain this ‘depth’ in Afghanistan? Are we that gone that we need these backward yahoos to save our army?

PS By the way what about our nuclear weapons? Are they not enough to stop the Indians in their tracks? What poppycock is this ‘strategic depth’?!

[email protected]

[Singha]

Will our army pack its bags and escape into Afghanistan to disengage itself from the fighting, if India goes to war with Pakistan?

[vijayk]

Okay confirming once and for all. It is not GoIs fault. There were NO VISA issues as per bakis themselves.
This is all work of yindu banias and extremists.
IPL surrenders on Line of Control

He also said there were no visa issues with any of the 11 players. “We were given permission to travel to India from our foreign office and the ministry. All 11 Pakistani players in the IPL auction list had their papers ready and the sports minister in India was very kind to expedite things to ensure they were not troubled. I really don't know what went wrong, but it hurts.”

And Pakistan reacted angrily. PTI quoted Afridi as saying from Brisbane the way he saw it, “IPL and India have made fun of us and our country. We are the Twenty20 World Champions and the attitude of the franchisees was disappointing. I feel bad for the Indian people …”

All-rounder Abdul Razzaq indicated he saw the snub as a joint strategy between the IPL and the government to insult Pakistani players, while Pakistan Cricket Board chief Ijaz Butt told HT he was “shocked”.

“It’s not only shocking, but very disappointing as well. We were hoping that things would be all right and they had also confirmed that most of our players would be considered.”

I hope we can convince the whole world to put sanctions, boycott their players, businesses, artists. This creepy ba$tard nation needs to be crushed by international isolation until those buggers stop spreading terrorism and murders all over the globe and India in particular.

[SSridhar]

The land that gave Chanakya should also practise the art of conversion; IPL provides India the access to highly-visible Pakistanis, and their conversion to an Indian point of view, can only further Indian agenda.

Denying them access denies India the access to create a "Pakistani NGO".

Krithivas, after studying Pakistan for close to two decades now, I am convinced that there is no possibility of 'converting' any Pakistani to an 'Indian PoV'. In fact, nobody can make the Pakistanis see the reality when it comes to India. Irrationality and unreasonableness overwhelm them because of complete indoctrination against India that permeates every nook and corner of Pakistan. For a Pakistani to exhibit normal human characteristics vis-a-vis India, this indoctrination must be first stopped, the system should be cleansed of hatred and fabricated history and then the Pakistanis must be made aware of the truth. All these will take several generations to achieve if an earnest attempt is made immediately.

[niran]

I am neither for allowing Pakis in the IPL, nor for WKK. I only wished exclusion of Pakis from IPL was handled in a better way.

What better way do you propose Sire?
such as every one bowing with folded hands and praising Packese for their
TFTA Cricket skills which SDRE players can not cope with, hence, to spare
Indian ijjat please do not signup, and here are Dollahs for the kind consideration.

[Muppalla]

Another Jinnah-as-secular-person article from the writer of original national anthem of Pakistan.

Prof. Jagan Nath Azad: Creator of Pakistan First National Anthem

Days before his death last year, Azad recalled, in an interview, the circumstances under which he was asked by Jinnah to write Pakistan’s national anthem: “In August 1947, when mayhem had struck the whole subcontinent, I was in Lahore working in a literary newspaper.

All my relatives had left for India and for me to think of leaving Lahore was painful. My Muslim friends requested me to stay. On August 9, 1947, there was a message from Jinnah Sahib through one of my friends at Radio Pakistan Lahore. He told me ‘Quaid-e-Azam wants you to write a national anthem for Pakistan.’”

Why him? “The answer to this question,” Azad said in the interview, “has to be understood by recalling the inaugural speech of Jinnah Sahib as Pakistan’s governor general. He said: “You will find that in the course of time, Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the state.”

I asked my friends why Jinnah Sahib wanted me to write the anthem. They confided in me that “the Quaid wanted the anthem to be written by an Urdu-knowing Hindu.” Through this, I believe Jinnah Sahib wanted to sow the roots of secularism in a Pakistan.”

[a_bharat]

Ah thanks for this gem. So Pakistanis sponsor terror in India because India is humiliating them and that avoidance of such humiliation will stop the terror. Now we need a list of things that humiliate Pakistanis.

You are free to read whatever you want from what I said. The right humiliation for Pakistan would have been to make Paki cricketers ineligible for auction. GoI didn't do its job right. Well, what could you expect from a Govt that did S-e-S only a few months after 26/11?

[arnab]

You are free to read whatever you want from what I said. The right humiliation for Pakistan would have been to make Paki cricketers ineligible for auction. GoI didn't do its job right. Well, what could you expect from a Govt that did S-e-S only a few months after 26/11?

Hmm - you think? Assuming GOI is indeed behind this IPL tamasha, and if GOI were to ban paki players outright from IPL3 (as suggested by you), wouldn't the TSP govt have also 'disallowed' the paki cricketers from playing in the IPL in India due to the 'security situation' (like they did in IPL 2)? So where would the humiliation be in all this? In this case pakis come licking their lips thinking that it is business as usual - only to be given a swift kick in the posterior.

[Rahul M]

Where is the fine line between being wise and appeasement? Dealing with terrorist supporters is not wise but the later. Finally someone has taken an action in best interests and its being second guessed.

Keeping them out of IPL is the right thing to do. Making them ineligible for auction is not appeasement, S-e-S was. Did we have to put them on auction and then not bid for them?

who is this we ? even a superb player like brad haddin and the ICC world no 1 all rounder like shakib al hasan was not picked.
you are making it sound as if the IPL franchise owners did a HUGE injustice to the paki players. there are caps on how many foreign players can be in the squad and played in a match.
for whatever reasons the team owners didn't pick the paki players. get over it. even far better players have not been picked. I don't see why only the paki players have to do all this
and Indians with obscure sense of righteousness have to lend voice to that.

pakis have an unbelievable spoilt kid mentality.

[a_bharat]

you are making it sound as if the IPL franchise owners did a HUGE injustice to the paki players.

you make it sound as if I am upset at shunning the Pakis. I only said it could have been done better.

and Indians with obscure sense of righteousness have to lend voice to that. .

well, don't put me in that category.

[abhishek_sharma]

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2010_pg3_1

US Defence Secretary Robert Gates is expected to visit Pakistan later this week along with a high-powered delegation. Before visiting Pakistan, Mr Gates will visit India and talk on issues of bilateral interest, particularly with reference to the security situation in the region. Meanwhile, US Special Envoy for Pakistan and Afghanistan Richard Holbrooke will also travel to Delhi to explain US regional strategy to Indian officials. This raised questions whether the US can play the role of a mediator between India and Pakistan during this high-profile visit. However, both Holbrooke and India’s Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao have rule out any such possibility, in line with Delhi’s long-standing policy against third party mediation. It may be remembered that even while the Obama administration was deliberating on the portfolio of Mr Holbrooke as a special envoy to the region, Delhi expressed strong reservations against its inclusion, which were accepted by Washington

Washington’s relations with Islamabad are troubled at best. Developments in the decades following the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan have led to mutual suspicion and mistrust. While Pakistan accuses the US of abandoning its ‘most allied ally’ once its immediate objectives were attained, the US is deeply suspicious of Pakistan’s dual policy of ‘good Taliban’ and ‘bad Taliban’. Despite diplomatic papering over, the two countries seem to be following different agendas in the region. Various issues including non-proliferation continue to dog mutual relations. This has led Washington to follow a carrot and stick policy with Pakistan.

On the other hand, the US attitude toward India is very different. It perceives India to be an emerging power and is strongly biased towards developing a strong strategic relationship with it. The US has pledged special concessions to India for transfer of nuclear technology, ostensibly for peaceful purposes, but this has raised legitimate concerns in various quarters about the space this allows for enhanced weapons production. Pakistan is particularly wary of this situation since this could mean a strategic imbalance in the region. Pakistan thus fears finding itself in a nutcracker situation, in which it is sandwiched by an intransigent neighbour to the east, and a perceived pro-India Afghan regime to the west. It is this perception that has led Pakistan to oppose India’s participation in any regional peace initiative, the fresh example of which is the forthcoming London Summit on Afghanistan.

To conclude, the US attitude is not very helpful. It is embarking on a strategic partnership with India, which can ironically give rise to greater regional instability as it feeds into Pakistan’s insecurities. US patronage gives India the feeling that it is winning vis-à-vis Pakistan on Kashmir and other regional issues. The very visible US tilt towards India is creating suspicions in Pakistan that this may eventually translate into Indian hegemony in the South Asia region in the near future.

[Suppiah]

By surrendering to TSP the only kind of terror that we can really hope to avoid is the terror directly organised, financed and executed by TSP civilian regime of the party that signed the deal. The ones organised by its Army and ISI will continue, with or without surrender because the real goal of these barbaric animals is hoisting the green flag in red fort. Let us remember that clearly. And we are not even talking about groups that Army/ISI dont or no longer control.

You cant lick the rears of these animals and hope they will be nice to us. We have to find hot rods to insert...

Congrats to the IPL for ignoring barbaric terrorists. Amazing something controlled by Bollywood can have so much patriotic instinct..

[shiv]

You are free to read whatever you want from what I said. The right humiliation for Pakistan would have been to make Paki cricketers ineligible for auction. GoI didn't do its job right. Well, what could you expect from a Govt that did S-e-S only a few months after 26/11?

OK thanks -I will read what I like here. Sharm el Sheikh was a sellout to Pakistan and not selecting Pakistani players for IPL was also a sellout. But may I point out that you are not the only one on here who has a clear idea of what the government's powers are?

[pgbhat]

you make it sound as if I am upset at shunning the Pakis. I only said it could have been done better.

I guess you are unhappy *thinking* that GoI pulled off this stunt behind Pakis back.
IF that happened, most people in BRF or for that matter in India would not see any issue. Pakis don't deserve dignified treatment. We need to treat them with disdain. They have a overwhelming sense of entitlement which needs to be flushed out.

[milindc]

you are making it sound as if the IPL franchise owners did a HUGE injustice to the paki players.

you make it sound as if I am upset at shunning the Pakis. I only said it could have been done better.

The only thing better would have been requesting for the base price to be in 'Toilet Paper' (aka Paki rupees) instead of USD. The bitches signed up for it and got slapped right....
It would have been funny watching Preity Zinta bid for Shahid Afridi with her hand on nose, and saying 20 rolls of toilet paper.
I'm sure the Paki beggars would have been ok with that bid (i.e. 20 rolls of toilet paper).

[Suppiah]

They have a overwhelming sense of entitlement which needs to be flushed out.

As the German ambassador said, pay us or we will blow ourselves up...do this, or we will blow you up...dont do this or we become a failed state...

One day someone has to say 'please be our guests and go ahead'

[a_bharat]

Assuming GOI is indeed behind this IPL tamasha, and if GOI were to ban paki players outright from IPL3 (as suggested by you), wouldn't the TSP govt have also 'disallowed' the paki cricketers from playing in the IPL in India due to the 'security situation' (like they did in IPL 2)? So where would the humiliation be in all this? In this case pakis come licking their lips thinking that it is business as usual - only to be given a swift kick in the posterior.

If that thinking was there, great. But, I think GoI, BCCI just bumbled and the situation was saved at the last minute by some right thinking people.

[RayC]

Dire Straits for Pakistan

While the war on terror rages in Pakistan’s tribal regions, with attacks claiming more and more civilian lives and US drone strikes complicating matters further, the country faces a multitude of other problems, including a catastrophic energy crisis in the midst of a severe winter, a dire financial crunch, and a weakened government whose president is facing an insurmountable credibility conundrum.

Recent developments in the country’s ongoing corruption crisis are now adding to the public’s quickly growing disillusionment with the government led by President Asif Ali Zardari, who is proving to be little, if any, improvement over his much-maligned predecessor, Pervez Musharraf.

In a 17 December decision, the Pakistani Supreme Court reversed a controversial corruption amnesty law put in place under the regime of former military president Musharraf, clearing the way for massive corruption and criminal cases against top politicians, bureaucrats and generals.

Today, around 8,500 corruption and other criminal cases against high-profile figures, including Zardari, are awaiting hearing.

More at:
Dire Straits

[sanjaykumar]

As the German ambassador said, pay us or we will blow ourselves up...do this, or we will blow you up...dont do this or we become a failed state...

One day someone has to say 'please be our guests and go ahead'


Clint Eastwood said it best:


Go ahead...make my day.

[arnab]

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2010_pg3_1

Editorial: A regional conflict in the making?

Worryingly, other reports speak of a secret visit to Kabul by the chief of India’s Directorate General of Military Intelligence (DGMI), Lt. General RK Loomba, for discussions with Afghan, US and Nato officials regarding training Afghan national army units. If true, the report points in the direction of the growing role of India and its intelligence services in Kabul, and the leaning of the US and Nato towards relying on this help, possibly with an eye to the future withdrawal of US and Nato forces starting in 2011, when the vacuum of training and aid to the nascent Afghan army could arguably be filled by India. Needless to say, this development is a slap in the face of Pakistan’s insistence to the US and Nato that Pakistan’s core national interests in Afghanistan be taken into consideration, which at the very least include a friendly government in Kabul. It also needs no emphasis that such reports are likely to act as the proverbial red rag to our military establishment, could spark off a proxy conflict between Pakistan and India on Afghan soil, and even a wider conflict between the two South Asian neighbours, thereby reversing the momentum towards peace that seemed so promising at one time.

[Altair]

Reading some posts here, I feel there are some closet WKK's here. They just dont know that yet!

[CRamS]

Congrats to the IPL for ignoring barbaric terrorists. Amazing something controlled by Bollywood can have so much patriotic instinct..

My friend, lets not go overboard. I doubt it was due to any patriotic reason. It was probably business driven, perhahs they were under pressure from some quarters (more likely). If Bollywood were truly patriotic, I would expect more movies on the horrors of Paki terrorism, the rooting out of Pandists from Kashmir valley, more movies expalining why Kashmir is important to India, Paki perfidy in Kashmir, the role of ungreatful Kashmiri Muslim traitors, the bravery of the Indian soldiers who laid down their lives to uphold the idea of India etc. Why doesn't Bollywood make such movies? Are they afraid that Dawood and ISI will put a bullet through their head? And guess what Bollywood put out recetly? Pompous, self-righteous nonsense, totally irrelevant to India or at best of peripheral interest but definetly of interest to TSPians, about percieved Muslim grievances in USA post 9/11; I am refering to crap like My name is Khan or Quarbaan etc.

[amit]

I responded to your intellectually dishonest attempt to sweep Sharm-el-Shaikh under the carpet by asserting that remembering when the national interest has been "sold out", in full public view, constitutes a "time warp".

Rudradev,

The thread has traveled quite a bit since your post. I thought I would not respond and let sleeping dogs lie. However, on second thoughts I feel I should exercise my right to reply.

Afterall in two posts in a row you’ve made crude personal attacks on me, calling me first a shill (perhaps in the payroll of the Maino-Manmohan cabal?) and then saying I’m intellectually dishonest.

It’s a bit rich that you quote what you call “Congress Web Warrior Manual Directive” of resorting to ad-hominen attacks when facts don’t add up to your convenience. Pot calling the kettle black? Or is this the frustration of an ex-Congress Web Warrior?

While I really don’t care what you think, it would be good if you look at yourself in the mirror more often. I’ll explain why later.

First the fact (for a change):

My views on SES?

It’s there in the quote which you used:

SES was a fiasco, I think that point has been proven quite comprehensively. Having said that, however, I don't think it serves any purpose of bringing it out like a Rabbit from a Hat every time a discussion on India's foreign policy takes place. That also suggest a kind of time wrap.

Yes I do think SES was a major foreign policy blunder on the part of the PM and the then Foreign Secretary. However, to be frank I’m not too sure about the Maino-Manmohan cabal’s hand in all this. I’m sure you’re more well-informed.

You ignored my comment on what I thought about SES and then took the later part of my statement and launched into a diatribe without pausing to look at the context.

The whole discussion started when a poster (I’m not using the names of the posters as it serves no purpose, you can go and have a look if you are curious) said this about Nirupama Rao’s inteview:

Too meek a statment. Almost begging TSP.

To this I responded that we have a curious situation whereby we make fun of intemperate and bombastic statements made by Paki leaders and officials. Yet when our officials use sophisticated diplomatise to convey a strong message we think they are making meek statements.

Another poster (who would be surprised to know that I have immense respect for what he posts) joined in the discussion on whether Nirupama Rao’s statements were adequate or too meek.

While the discussion dingdonged this poster brought in SES (quite out of context I thought).

It was at this point I made that comment which you quoted because we were discussion a rather straightforward issue: Did the new Foreign Sec give a good, strong interview about Pakistan or not.

SES is part of a larger Indian Foreign Policy failure, however I fail to see how that should be used to judge the interview to CNN-IBN.

Now the really interesting part is, this is what you have to say about the interview:

As to Nirupama Rao, I did not address that part of your query because I have immense respect for her, deriving from years of following her statements as a senior IFS officer (not affiliated to any political party as far as I know). She said what she had to say despite of Karan Thapar's leading questions, designed to extract the maximum degree of masala. I think she made her point clearly enough. I have nothing to add to that.

We all know what your POV is on SES. I see that despite that you think the Foreign Sec gave a good interview and “made her point clearly enough”.

I do not notice anything in your statement, which resembles: “Too meek a statment. Almost begging TSP”.

So can I take it that despite the SES fiasco, Nirupama Rao gave a good interview to CNN-IBN and made her points clearly?

If that is what you think, now can you tell me how different that is from what I’ve been trying to say?

I’m sorry to say but I think you jumped the gun and launched into an ad-hominen attack without even trying to understand what was being discussed.

This is not the first time that you’ve used adjectives like intellectually dishonest against fellow BRFites who have a different POV other than yours. It is for the Admins to decide if that’s proper or not.

However, the way I see it I think you need to look into the mirror more often, if nothing else the image you see might make you more circumspect and less judgmental of others.

Please See:

Again you’re wrong. I did not ask Archan to delete the particular post you quote. In fact I would have been very unhappy if that happened (unless your posts were similarly deleted).

I asked him to delete my angry rejoined to your stupid shill comment. And you know why? That’s because this is the TSP thread and lot of Paklurks come here.

I’m sure they are having a hearty laugh see how we are getting our chaddis in a twist over something as straightforward as what to make of the Foreign Sec’s interview to CNN-IBN.

Cheers!

[Virupaksha]

arnab,

You missed some juicy bits in that. That article was clearly shot to zardari from kiyani

That establishment seems to have conveyed its message in no uncertain terms to President Asif Ali Zardari and the PPP-led government that any softness towards India at a time when it is as far away as can be envisaged from playing ball with our peace overtures in the aftermath of Mumbai, would be frowned upon in GHQ and may lead to a breach with the civilian democratic government.

President Zardari and the PPP-led government have only two possible choices. Either they submit to the will of the powerful military establishment on Afghanistan, India and even the internal conflict in Balochistan in order to survive in office and live to fight another day, or they stick to their guns regarding civilian supremacy over the military,

The warning bells for coup have been given.