Intelligence & National Security Discussion

[Rahul M]

ahem, gentlemen we are veering far off the topic of this thread. please keep to the bounds.
thx.

[Kati]

The telegraph article on MK-PC rift:
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1100122/j ... 014872.jsp

[ASPuar]

^^^
From the above article.

Those from India’s intelligence community who were present at the meeting knew only too well that the barb was directed at the national security adviser.

Narayanan has been a life-long intelligence officer, but one schooled in the old ways, precisely the old ways that Chidambaram wants to eliminate, impressed by his recent exposure to the New York Police Department’s preparedness and briefings by US agencies such as America’s Counter-Terrorism Center.

Sometimes I think our reporters dont understand anything of what they write. How is it ironical that Narayanan left after a "barb directed at him". Seems like simple cause and effect to me.

Additionally, it seems a bit simplistic to me to imagine that PC visited one American facillity, and one NYPD local police center, and has become so enamoured that he wants to change all Indian intel agencies into them.

It also did not help Narayanan during his turf wars with Chidambaram in recent months that it was well known that RAW had reached its lowest point ever through acts of commission rather than omission.

What does this mean?

[ramana]

Please take the Jyoti Basu and PRC visa posts to the Other forum.

[ASPuar]

Please take the Jyoti Basu and PRC visa posts to the Other forum.

Actually, they are largely useless OT banter and argument. Could you delete all my posts on the matter please? Apologies.

[sum]

M K Narayanan: A titan of the intelligence community

M K Narayanan (also known as MK or Mike) and I were contemporaries in college, but we had not known each other as students. I met him for the first time in July, 1967, when I joined the Intelligence Bureau as a joint assistant director. MK, six years senior to me in the Indian Police Service, had joined the IB some years earlier and was working as an assistant director in a division dealing with communism. Though very young in the intelligence profession, he had already made a name as a brilliant analyst and was held in great respect by his seniors and other colleagues.

He used to share a room with another officer in the South Block. All the young officers of the IB religiously used to gather in his room every day for a shared lunch. It used to be an uproarious gathering discussing men, matters and memories in a humourous manner.

MK had always been known for his keen -- and often debunking -- sense of humour and he used to keep everybody laughing. His humour endeared him to many, but caused misunderstandings with others who could not appreciate the humour in his remarks.

R N Kao was a joint director then and occupied a room two rooms after MK's. He used to regularly go home for lunch, but often, before going home, he would peep into MK's lunch club as we used to call it, greet all of us and leave.
MK used to talk to Kao as freely and as humourously as he used to talk to me and other juniors without the least sign of nervousness. If I am asked to name three qualities of MK, which I valued most, I would mention his sense of personal dignity, his high standards of personal integrity and his human relationships.

MK had the privilege of serving under or with titans of the intelligence profession such as B N Mallick, Kao, M M L Hooja, A K Dave, K Sankaran Nair and G C Saxena. I had seen him in the company of all these officers except Mallick. He used to show great respect to them and treated them with deference, but I had never seen him exhibit servility or submissiveness to any of them. Even though he was years junior to them, he would talk to them on equal terms and would not hesitate to give his views right or wrong -- firmly, but politely.

In the IB, he had held a large variety of responsibilities before becoming its chief -- as an expert on national and international communism and Dravidian politics, counter-intelligence, counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism. His role in dealing with the tribal insurgency in Tripura was highly commended. His contribution to counter-terrorism in J&K and Punjab [ Images ] was very significant. One knows a senior professional by the number of juniors he trained and made them shine.

Outstanding IB officers such as A S Dulat (J&K) and Ajit Doval (counter-terrorism) greatly benefitted from their training under MK. You name any outstanding officer of the IB, you would find that MK was his mentor at some stage or the other. You will also find that excellent inter-personal relationships was a strong quality of all proteges of MK. He made them imbibe the importance of good team work for success in the intelligence profession.

There have been a number of articles on MK's contribution as the NSA. Nobody can talk knowledgeably and authoritatively on this except Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh [ Images ]. The NSA reports directly to the PM, who uses him as a sounding-board for new ideas and initiatives. The relationship between a prime minister and his NSA is often more informal than formal. It has to be that way. Nobody can claim to know the kind of close informal relationship that prevailed and continues to prevail between Dr Singh and MK.

Even without much direct access to reliable information, one could have a good sense of MK's style of functioning as the NSA. Some examples of MK's initiatives:

When he realised that there were serious reservations over the Indo-US nuclear co-operation agreement in sections of the community of retired nuclear scientists, he arranged an interaction for them with the prime minister so that they could share their concerns. He did not just dismiss their concerns, but felt it necessary that the prime minister should be aware of them before he went ahead with the agreement.

He managed to establish a folksy relationship with his counterparts in the George Bush [ Images ] administration which smoothened the negotiations. Both MK and Bush shared a penchant for such folksy relationships. I was told that when Bush visited India [ Images ] in April 2006, he put his hand around the shoulders of MK and whispered into his ears: "I want this agreement".

Raman-garu seems to be a big MKN fan.

[svinayak]

When he realised that there were serious reservations over the Indo-US nuclear co-operation agreement in sections of the community of retired nuclear scientists, he arranged an interaction for them with the prime minister so that they could share their concerns. He did not just dismiss their concerns, but felt it necessary that the prime minister should be aware of them before he went ahead with the agreement.

Is this not interesting that the Govt forma a policy without the interactions of nuclear scientists.

[ramana]

Sum, Its a counter to the hatchet job being done on MKN. BTW, MK Dhar also praises MKN for computerising the IB.
In retrospect MKN was doing something in Mumabi which didnt work out.

The Refiff article comments are pathetic and show partisanship.

[milindc]

When he realised that there were serious reservations over the Indo-US nuclear co-operation agreement in sections of the community of retired nuclear scientists, he arranged an interaction for them with the prime minister so that they could share their concerns. He did not just dismiss their concerns, but felt it necessary that the prime minister should be aware of them before he went ahead with the agreement.

Is this not interesting that the Govt forma a policy without the interactions of nuclear scientists.

The keyword missing is 'retired'.

[svinayak]

The keyword missing is 'retired'.

Does it matter. It also means that serving officials cannot disagree on many matters and retired officials have to take up the issue. Does it make sense.

[ASPuar]

Sum, Its a counter to the hatchet job being done on MKN. BTW, MK Dhar also praises MKN for computerising the IB.
In retrospect MKN was doing something in Mumabi which didnt work out.

The Refiff article comments are pathetic and show partisanship.

In the final calculus, MKN is neither a titan, nor a failure.
Computerisation, IIRC was the order of the day across govt depts when MKN was in charge in IB. Anyway, lets see what PC does, and where things go for R&AW, IB, etc. IMO, R&AW has nothing to do with the home minister, so I doubt that itll get subsumed by him.

[Craig Alpert]

Self Delted!
My apologies... Already posted on the previous page.

[Virupaksha]

When next in Delhi, if you were to experience a quick visit to the Embassy of the PRC in Delhi, and inspection of the notice in BIG RED LETTERS , that should satisfy this request for evidence .

ASPuar or anyone in Delhi,

can you please post those letters. A photograph will be great if not possible, the wordings will be great too.

[Sridhar]

Sum, Its a counter to the hatchet job being done on MKN. BTW, MK Dhar also praises MKN for computerising the IB.
In retrospect MKN was doing something in Mumabi which didnt work out.

The Refiff article comments are pathetic and show partisanship.

In the final calculus, MKN is neither a titan, nor a failure.
Computerisation, IIRC was the order of the day across govt depts when MKN was in charge in IB. Anyway, lets see what PC does, and where things go for R&AW, IB, etc. IMO, R&AW has nothing to do with the home minister, so I doubt that itll get subsumed by him.

We are talking about the mid 1980s. There was much talk of computerization across Government departments, thanks to it being a pet project of RG. But there was no implementation anywhere, except where specific officials took interest. Further, there was much bureaucratic and labor opposition to computerization at the time. Added to that were the significant hurdles to importing equipment. Hence, the computerization of the IB and the initiation of a network amongst state police headquarters was not a trivial accomplishment for its time.

[putnanja]

Posting in full as it contains quite a few jems and cherry picking was difficult ...


July meet that set PM’s mind - K.P. NAYAR

Washington, Jan. 22: The decision to appoint Shiv Shankar Menon as national security adviser was taken in principle by the Prime Minister in the last week of July 2009, notwithstanding ill-informed speculation about other contenders right until yesterday’s announcement of M.K. Narayanan’s successor.

Manmohan Singh’s resolve to bring Menon into his office (PMO) was firmed up following a meeting that took place on a day the Prime Minister was down but not out as the result of overwhelming political and bureaucratic opposition to his Sharm-el-Sheikh initiative with Pakistan on July 16.

Menon, only a few days away from retirement as foreign secretary, was not only down but also out.

He had taken the blame for the Sharm-el-Sheikh fiasco where Singh and Pakistan’s Prime Minister Syed Yousaf Raza Gilani had agreed to delink action on terrorism from the Indo-Pakistan dialogue and allegedly conceded ground to Pakistan on its complaints about an Indian subversive role in Balochistan.

Consequently, work on a new office space for Menon was ordered to be stopped and a decision to bring him into the PMO as a special envoy was put on hold.

Singh, who tends to lapse into moods at the slightest of setbacks, was upset that he was not getting the political backing from the Congress he had hoped for after Sharm-el-Sheikh.

For all that, Singh was absolutely convinced that he had done the right thing at his meeting with Gilani and realised that he would now have to bide his time to resume the initiative with Pakistan.

It was against this backdrop that a crucial meeting was called to take stock of the fallout from Sharm-el-Sheikh.

At this meeting, the normally unflappable Menon let fly his frustrations and disappointments during the two years and 10 months that he had been foreign secretary, according to a cabinet minister and a senior bureaucrat who attended that meeting.

Menon’s primary target at that meeting was Narayanan, who was opposed to the Sharm-el-Sheikh initiative, notwithstanding the very cordial relationship the two men have shared for many years.

The foreign secretary put in words what ministers and senior civil servants who attend regular meetings of the cabinet committee on security already knew: Narayanan had come in the way of every strategic initiative during the five years plus that he had been in the PMO.

Narayanan vigorously opposed the nuclear deal with the US when it was offered by the Americans in July 2005.

In fact, Narayanan changed his mind on the nuclear deal three times during its tortuous course, oscillating between support and opposition, one source privy to those flip-flops had told this reporter at various stages during those changes in his opinion.

As a life-long intelligence official, he could not countenance the idea that India would delink action against terrorism from the so-called composite dialogue process with Pakistan or concede an inch on Islamabad’s allegations of Delhi’s role in Balochistan.

Menon asked Narayanan what option he had on Pakistan, other than keeping the channels of communication open and resuming the dialogue. He accused Narayanan of dragging his feet on the border dispute with China, a subject which the national security adviser was directly in charge of.

A China expert whose childhood was spent in a school in Tibet, Menon implied that Narayanan’s fear of shadows from his days in the Intelligence Bureau was contributing to unfounded suspicions about China and taking Sino-Indian relations downhill.

It was clear from the outgoing foreign secretary’s litany of complaints that Indian foreign policy could not continue the way it was plodding along.

Menon painted a picture of stagnation in dealings with the neighbourhood and the Prime Minister realised that the foreign secretary was talking precisely about the problems that had stymied his initiatives, making it impossible to create a legacy based on his foreign policy vision.

This was the moment Singh made up his mind that Menon had to be brought in at an opportune moment as national security adviser.

On March 16 last year, as part of a pre-election series called “Value Judgement” on the UPA’s record in office, this newspaper had predicted that “if Singh returns to office, he may just be waiting to see the back of Narayanan”.

It was clear at that time that Narayanan would not have a full second term as national security adviser, but no decision had then been taken on who his replacement would be.

However, home minister P. Chidambaram on his own or his efforts in cumulation with the course of events at the end-July meeting on Sharm-el-Sheikh would not have been enough to send Narayanan into exile in Calcutta.

According to one cabinet minister who interacted with Congress president Sonia Gandhi almost daily during the critical legislative approval phase of the Indo-US nuclear deal, she is of the view, in retrospect, that the political deal with the Samajwadi Party to facilitate the nuclear deal was a bad choice.

It was Narayanan, with his intelligence skills, who twisted the arms of Mulayam Singh Yadav and Amar Singh into supporting the UPA in Parliament at that time.

According to another member of the ministry, Sonia told him that she disagreed also with the PMO’s decision to vote against Iran at the International Atomic Energy Agency in September 2005 for the sake of the nuclear deal.

Narayanan helped deliver a dead Velupillai Prabhakaran as revenge became a substitute for India’s Sri Lanka policy in the final months of Colombo’s military campaign against the Tamil Tigers last year.

But as clamour grows across the world to investigate Sri Lanka’s human rights abuses and alleged war crimes, there is lurking concern in 10 Janpath, Sonia’s residence, that questionable aspects of India’s recent role in Sri Lanka may come out at some stage and that Narayanan’s presence in the PMO could then prove to be an embarrassment.

Narayanan could hopefully survive any such exposure in Calcutta but not at the heart of Indian foreign and security policies.

[ramana]

Again Cardinal Wolsey.

I think in retrospect MKN looks like he was realist with a bunch of idealists. Also if he hadnt delivered Mulayam Votes there would have been a major setback and loss of face.

The more the knives are out the better he is looking.

[ramana]

Inder malhotra in Tribune, 1/22/10

Revamping security set-up
More important than personnel change
by Inder Malhotra

EVER since the New Delhi grapevine started forecasting National Security Adviser M.K. Narayanan’s departure from the Prime Minister’s Office to Raj Bhavan in Kolkata, it has been clear that the change is a prelude to a revamping of the entire national security architecture in this country, such as it is. The institution of NSA has existed in the United States since the end of World War II and in Russia also for a long time. Here, however, it is very new and in an evolutionary stage.

To be sure Mr Narayanan was very briefly the NSA and chief executive of the first ever National Security Council in V.P. Singh’s time. But the whole exercise was no more than a flash in the pan. Both the NSC and the NSA disappeared with the fall of V.P. Singh’s government. Mr Narayanan went back to his earlier post of Director of Intelligence Bureau from which V.P. Singh had shifted him, and served for several years.

It was only in 1999 when Atal Behari Vajpayee was Prime Minister that the first functioning NSC was formed and the first functioning NSA was appointed. However, Atalji assigned the onerous task to his already overburdened Principal Secretary, Mr Brajesh Mishra, which was totally contrary to the recommendations of the task force on the subject. (Interestingly, Mr Mishra is now opposed to the institution of NSA because he thinks it is incompatible with parliamentary democracy.)

In 2004 when the Congress-led United Progressive Alliance came to power, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh appointed J.N. Dixit, a former foreign secretary, as his NSA. Simultaneously, Mr Narayanan joined the PMO as an adviser on internal security. Coordination of all intelligence agencies and ministries involved in making national security policy remained with the NSA.

After Dixit’s sudden death in January 2005, Mr Narayanan became the NSA and took over the overseeing of both external and internal security. Being a veteran of the intelligence establishment and a long serving DIB, he also started micromanaging intelligence agencies that aroused criticism. Too much executive responsibility, the critics argued, detracted from the NSA’s job of coordinating the making of national security policies and monitoring their implementation. But this had no impact. Mr Narayanan, like Mr Mishra, acquired a very high profile that was — in some ways though not entirely — comparable to the roles played in the US by Henry Kissinger and Zbigniew Brzezinski. To say this, however, is not to overlook the good work Mr Narayanan has done and services he has rendered. Even his critics acknowledge his constructive role in negotiating the Indo-US civilian nuclear deal. It is also remarkable that after 26/11 the Prime Minister refused to accept his resignation while others were allowed, if not actually told, to leave. Some attributed this to the confidence that the Congress President was perceived to repose in him.

If a date has to be fixed for the waning of Mr Narayanan’s star, it has to be the day when the hands-on P. C. Chidambaram took charge of the Union Home Ministry in the wake of the horrendous Pakistani terrorist attack on Mumbai. Wanting to establish a firm grip on internal security, he started holding a daily meeting at which not only the heads of the I.B. and the external intelligence agency better known by its acronym RAW but also the NSA had to be present. The word went round that at times tension at these meetings was palpable.

Apparently, things began to move faster after the parliamentary elections in May last when the Manmohan Singh government Mark II was formed. The Prime Minister asked Mr Narayanan to stay on as NSA but only for a limited period, not for the government’s five-year term. The watershed, some observes believe, was reached when Mr Chidambaram, in his lecture on the centenary of the IB, outlined a comprehensive scheme to revamp and reinvigorate the Home Ministry. He wanted it to deal with every aspect of internal security and shed other responsibilities, ranging from national disaster management to the welfare of freedom fighters, to other ministries and departments. The general reaction then was that the idea behind the Home Minister’s scheme was sound but the same could not be said about all its details. However, Mr B. Raman, a former deputy chief of RAW and now one of the finest security analysts, wrote that Mr Chidambaram’s reorganisation plan, if accepted, would make him “Internal Security Czar”.

It is in this context that there has been widespread and intense speculation about a turf war between the Home Minister and the NSA in which the former has prevailed. Mr Chidambaram has pointed out, however, that he has never even mentioned the NSA. All he wants, he adds, is that every agency having to do anything with the problem of terrorism must report to the National Counter-Terrorism Centre under the Home Ministry. This arrangement would leave the NSA with a large number of other functions. In any case, as he underscores, Mr Chidambaram’s lecture has yet to be converted into a precise proposal to be presented to the Cabinet for approval.

Be that as it may, the main point that is being overlooked is that whoever may be the Home Minister and whoever the NSA the entire national security architecture in this country needs to be restructured and revamped to cope with the great and growing challenges to Indian security, internal and external. It also needs to be recognised that at present internal security has assumed greater importance than ever before. The United States had made sweeping reforms in its security apparatus after 9/11. It had set up a new department of home security without making it excessively powerful, and taken other measures. Yet, the latest incident at Detroit where the US homeland became vulnerable to airborne terrorism shows the even the wholesale American reforms haven’t been enough. Our system, sadly, is chaotic by comparison and needs to be streamlined speedily.

What the government proposes to do is not yet known. But there is a clear and urgent need to appoint a Director of National Intelligence who would relieve the NSA of the responsibility to coordinate the operations of intelligence agencies and report to the Prime Minister through the NSA and to the Home Minister directly. Equally patent is the need to ensure that everyone concerned shares fully all intelligence inputs. The doctrine of sharing them on the basis of “need to know” simply will not do.

One also has to look at the major enablers of terrorism in India vs US before adopting methods developed elsewhere. In my view terrorism in India is primarly enabled and facilitated by external actors: state and non state, Western and Eastern, North and South. So RAW is key player in developing a response. Once inside its the IB that has the prime focus and State Polices due to the Constitutional requirments.

[sum]

Sum, Its a counter to the hatchet job being done on MKN. BTW, MK Dhar also praises MKN for computerising the IB.
In retrospect MKN was doing something in Mumabi which didnt work out.

The Refiff article comments are pathetic and show partisanship.

Ramana garu,
Could you list a few points about MKN which suddenly made you a admirer of MKN from the bitter critic you were of him earlier?

[sum]

Singh, who tends to lapse into moods at the slightest of setbacks, was upset that he was not getting the political backing from the Congress he had hoped for after Sharm-el-Sheikh.

For all that, Singh was absolutely convinced that he had done the right thing at his meeting with Gilani and realised that he would now have to bide his time to resume the initiative with Pakistan.

It was against this backdrop that a crucial meeting was called to take stock of the fallout from Sharm-el-Sheikh.

At this meeting, the normally unflappable Menon let fly his frustrations and disappointments during the two years and 10 months that he had been foreign secretary, according to a cabinet minister and a senior bureaucrat who attended that meeting.

Menon’s primary target at that meeting was Narayanan, who was opposed to the Sharm-el-Sheikh initiative, notwithstanding the very cordial relationship the two men have shared for many years.

What is with MMS and lovemaking with Pak?

Scary that the only hawk, MKN is now out and MMS will now be free to pursue some outrageous new "peace deal" with Pak with no one to check him. ( there is anyways unusally chatter in articles about a bold new effort w.r.t Pak from MMS).

Scary times ahead.

[abhishek_sharma]

It also appears that Menon agrees with the PM's vision.

[sum]

It also appears that Menon agrees with the PM's vision.

The article clearly states that SS was brought in due to his vision agreeing with MMS. Thats why i mentioned scary times ahead since there will be no holding MMS back if he engages in back door deals with Pak after learning his lessons from SeS where public dealing with Pak got lot of flak.

[abhishek_sharma]

From David Sanger's book "The Inheritance"

McConnell had arrived at the National Security Agency just before the Clinton years, as the Internet and e-mail were catching on and were about to revolutionize the world of high-tech eavesdropping. Breaking into computer systems was nothing new for the agency: For years, in country after country, American spies had learned how to insert Trojan programs that collected data without detection. They had learned how to insert devious programs into the VAX computers that the Soviets were buying up through front companies around the world--programs that led to slight miscalculations that were undetectable for all intents and purposes but just big enough to result in fatal errors in missile designs or weaponry.

[Avinash R]

How Indian agencies lured Khaja into a trap

[Paul]

This is why an effective counterweight to MMS is the need of the hour. MKN could not fill the role.

PC and MMS will have a showdown in a year's time or less.....(C) PC's vision and ambitions are diametrically opposite to MMS's vision.

[ramana]

sum,
Think for yourself. Print the last few articles on him and you will see for yourself.

[ASPuar]

X-posted to media watch.

[Rahul M]

ASpuar sahab, please post in media watch thread in GDF and delete the above post.
thx.

[kit]

shiv Post subject: Re: Chinese cyberwarfare and indian response
Posted: 23 Jan 2010 01:52 am

BRF Oldie



Joined: 01 Jan 1970 12:00 am
Posts: 6158
Location: mons veneris There appears to be a computer security caste system in India. The IT companies have robust security and the "itvity" crowd are generally aware. But everything else is not just potentially infected with malware - it is actually infected. All you need to do in India is to insert (just insert and remove, do nothing else) a pen drive into any public computer or college computer and then look at the contents of the pen drive in a Linux machine and you will find that some Windows files have been inserted on to the pen drive and those files cannot be seen or cannot be deleted under Windows.

What really surprised me was to find that my own medical college which has zero security related information but has savvy enthusiasts has robust security for its computers whereas every engineering college computer in Bangalore is clearly infected with malware.

For a nation that thinks that it is god's gift to IT, our average awareness of security is mind bogglingly meager. It's not that engineering college computers are leaking security information. They only add to the infections of privately owned laptops and desktops. And every day there is a minister's son or a babu's daughter who is using Papa's laptop for games and college work - who then infects the same. That babu/minister sends his chaprasi to the neighboring building to get some files on his pen drive and spread the malware around. Some of this malware is not identified by anti-virus software.

The people I meet in Bangalore think that anti virus software is a magic mantra that one only needs to carry around. They will say "No problem - i have anti virus software" - like the man who wore a condom on his thumb (as demonstrated to him) every time he went to a whore. The word "firewall" is usually unrecognised. Firewall? Why? In India we have brick walls. They don't burn.

My only concern is whether government and security depts are any more savvy than the mango Bangalorean. Nothing that I see gives me any confidence that they are. "INTEL inside, idiot outside" seems to be the rule.

Most Indians I meet think that Microsoft Windows is like Mercedes Benz. You buy a Merc - you buy a product whose robustness, refinement and reliability are taken for granted. Windows itself is a huge security hole. Using Windows is like sharing needles with a crowd of drug addicts.

I have in my possession copies of expensive software that were bought by a young friend in Shanghai at a dollar per CD. Indians are grateful to the Chinese for making expensive software such as Adobe Premiere or AUTOCAD available for public use. I note that engineering colleges in India encourage the use of programs such as AUTOCAD, but nobody actually buys the software. It is always shared. And with the Chinese being the fountain of software piracy, it is highly likely that tens of millions of computers are already infected.

Thank you for letting me have my rant. I have been having this rant for a decade now and it is not at all clear to me that Indians have learned anything. We are basically a nation of naive and trusting simpletons. Computer security is not for us.

Interesting observation Shiv Easy to guess why !

[satya]

Leave things before they leave you , MKNjee forgot so he was reminded of him being mortal . Internal Security Czar is need of the hour , its been decided and will happen like it or not argue yes but no way will it be stopped. Spooks are mortals for they tasted the power they never had before now they can't live without it well they have to .MKN was the last spook to be made NSA never again will tht be allowed ; politicos on both sides agree.
MMS has no issues with PC , he's on boat for PC & MMS ride the same trust horse where it matters. Spooks never speak against each other , as for MKN's achievement of computerizing IB , is this the best that could be said of a man who was the MAN for such a long time , it tells a lot of things tht never happened .His best talent was managerial as for junior's tell tales of being told gud work where i heard tht last yea in call centers of team leaders telling their ''executives'' good work its not leadership is it ? maybe am wrong but then he was never meant to provide one .In end farewell , enjoy ur retirement nothing more to be said .

As for Mishrajee , give that man some credit , he created infrastructure that was finally used and result no terror attacks .Mishrajee knew NSA's job profile will evolve with time so fine tuning in progress. SSM is one of the finest man who could think out of box so he is here again like it or not who cares he got the job.So where's BJP's next day rxn hmm mute only one statement for media for they too on board.

Need to understand , states are becoming increasingly relevant in present & future geo-political scenario so we do need a single authority on internal security to ensure economic growth can be used for strategic purposes in geo-political arena, please read Nitin Desai's article in BS about trade one of areas where India has an edge to play out both sides , tells a lot .

MMS vision is of using India's core strength ie trading , no one can beat Indians in trading he understands that so does the First Family and yes PC too & yes Kamandal too so that leaves out rag tag regionals oh they will fall in line they know else new methods can be used again n again , hon'able Krishi Mantri sees the future & he ain't liking it so what's best he can do well become kisano ka maseeha too late but then why stop let him be and he ain't alone . Is it that simple hmm yes but then what's there to argue so ignore it simple

Enough of my rant no more .

[ASPuar]

^^^

Punctuation is our friend!

Sorry, couldnt resist. You know, if the Internal Security Advisor becomes a reality, he will become a "czar", and weild a lot of power. As such, he should be kept under close check, to ensure that he isnt fiddling with political election results etc.

NSA being a foreign service fellow, well ok, but R&AW should not report to him any longer, and should go directly to the PM. If middleman is needed, appoint a cabinet-rank DNI on a rotational basis from R&AW and DIA, the two externally oriented intel services (IB will presumably report to ISA). But an NSA should not be controlling the R&AW. There is enough rivalry between IFS and R&AW, that there is a danger that a foreign service NSA without a sufficiently broad worldview, will undermine RAW.

[Stan_Savljevic]

Waiting for the NSA ---- PR Chari
http://ipcs.org/article/india/waiting-f ... -3048.html

[Philip]

How did Mrs.G. handle security matters without an NSA? She had an excellent FM,DM and head of RAW.Her considerable skills at diplomacy from the days at her father's side,proved invaluable.She also consulted her three service chiefs regularly.Dr.Singh has been all his life a loyal no.2 man,not a leader or strategic thinker,hence the need for the equivalent of a White House "Chief of Staff" and the over bureaucratisation of the PMO making it a mini-copy of the cabinet duplcating the responsibility that could easily be done by the various ministries.If you examine how great leaders in the past handled matters,Churchill for example,had direct personal daily contact with his intel heads,not through filters like an NSA an understood the picture clearly.

There are two sides to the NSA coin,foreign affairs and security.Taking decisions after examining the input from both sides is the art of a PM.Joint intel from the various sources/agencies delivered in a coherent and clear manner to the ultimate decision maker,the PM is what is required.There are just too many bodies involved and too much of filtration before intel reaches the PM.He should have direct communciation both ways with the intel heads (RAW/IB) and his service chiefs if he really wants to get to grips with critical issues and take decisions when neccessary without delays.The excess of babau fat has to be cut out of the system.Most of the news articles on the NSA's booting out remark about his "tactical" handling of events and the poor input from strategic think tanks like the NSAB,etc.But even MKN's "tactical" handling proved a dismal failure ,26/11 the most obvious,as he was apparently used more for political purposes than pure national security affairs.

In the ultimate analysis,the inability of the PM of the day to understand the criticality of national security as the primary foundation of the Indian state is why the departed NSA performed so controversially and poorly.Apart from underestimating the hatred and relentless terror planned at the higest level in Pak,the joint Sino-Pak destabilisation conspiracy against India,and China's global ambitions detrimental to India,Dr.Singh outsourced key decision making on vital international affairs and security matters to the US,understandable as he has been for the better part of his life a servile US lackey.The new incumbent is also another pro-US figure,quite in tune with his immediate master's direction.If PC is now the new internal security czar,where does this leave AKA and India's strategic and defence policy,anybody's guess?

[ASPuar]

How did Mrs.G. handle security matters without an NSA? She had an excellent FM,DM and head of RAW.Her considerable skills at diplomacy from the days at her father's side,proved invaluable.She also consulted her three service chiefs regularly.

You've forgotten, that she also had a brilliant Army Chief, whom she relied upon implicitly. She gave him a policy brief, and let him organize things in the manner which he saw professionally fit. While PC Lall may have complained that Sam headed things as a de facto CDS, he also acknowledges, that he headed things well.

Swaran Singh, Indira Gandhis foreign minister during 1971 was a reliable man, and faithfully implemented her policies. Babu Jagjivan Ram was also ok, especially since he didnt interfere unnecessarily in military matters, and ensured that his ministry fulfilled its prime brief of supporting the armed forces. RN Kao was a good and competent man, and his relationship with Manekshaw was excellent. The Intel and Armed forces worked hand in hand throughout.

[somnath]

How did Mrs.G. handle security matters without an NSA? She had an excellent FM,DM and head of RAW.Her considerable skills at diplomacy from the days at her father's side,proved invaluable.She also consulted her three service chiefs regularly.

IG did have RN Kao as her de facto NSa, though his official designation wasnt that..Excellent DM? Babu Jagjivan Ram (last of the illiterates in the cabinet)?!! Even FM? While Swaran Singh was a competent minister, he by no means decided policy..IG pretty much governed with her "5 Kashmiri Pandit" kitchen cabinet (the 2 Dhars, 2 KAuls and Kao)..

This whole to-and-fro about MKN's departure is quite unseemly..Very few of the commentariat is focussing on the real issues, and instead doing muck raking..

For purely coordination reasons, there is a requirement for an intel Czar..Unfortunately the Home Minister is trying to become that, and it will, should it succeed only constrict the remit..Intel is not just counter terror, or internal security..Covert ops in Afghanistan, Balochistan, our near abroad, even strategic intel on new areas like scientific espionage etc are not exactly linked to domestic security...

the PM should actually create a cabinet minister level position, and PC can take the job(!), who will be the coordinator of intelligence, the so-called intel czar..With the sheer complexity of intel and multiplicity of agencies, the PM needs one digested view of the information..At the same time, he should not lose his direct line with the RAW and IB chiefs either..The NSA should be a policy wonk, giving inputs to the PM on the intersection of foreign policy and intel and defence..SS Menon is clearly not a policy wonk by past track record, but perhaps that can be mitigated by getting DNSAs with the right background..

Above all, the NSCS needs to be adequately staffed by the right type of people - I am amazed how someone like Bharat Karnad is at least not being utilised there, or C Raja Mohan..

[putnanja]

This article is in response to the earlier article in Telegraph by KP Nayar that I had posted earlier, which talked about Narayanan walking out at the fag end of PC's speech.

The Home Ministry's denial and KPN's rejoinder are in the article below.

Home ministry denies walkout

[abhishek_sharma]

NSA Menon to shift focus on neighbours?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 493000.cms

The change of guard in PMO, with former foreign secretary Shiv Shankar Menon taking over as National Security Adviser is likely to lead to greater focus on India's borders -- an arc of interest encompassing Af-Pak, Sri Lanka, Nepal, China and Myanmar.

...
Sources confirmed that a renewed engagement with neighbours was on the cards. And while pushing peace with Pakistan remained a fraught project -- as the row over IPL excluding Pakistani cricketers showed -- there would no lack in India's effort to mend ties as long as Islamabad clearly understood the need to convincingly crack down on terrorism.

Singh feels the need to frame a response to the surge in China's clout. His discussions with foreign leaders like Russia's Dmitri Medvedev and Vladimir Putin besides others, have convinced him of the need to fashion a sound approach to the newly assertive neighbour. Menon has a less alarmist view on China, and dismisses the "string of pearls" theory of military encirclement of India as a "pretty ineffective murder weapon".

An engagement with China without straining ties is pretty much what the PM believes is necessary. The bellicose Chinese response to Dalai Lama's visit to Tawang last year did surprise India and caliberating relations in a manner that takes into account China's super-power aspirations as well as internal anxieties over Tibet and Xinjiang will need skill, patience and firmness.

...
The mood on Pakistan post the Sharm el-Sheikh fiasco is cautious. But the PM has tried to push for peace in the past once telling a TV interviewer in May last year that he and former Pakistan president Gen Pervez Musharraf had been close to a "non-territorial" solution on Kashmir.

A foreign service professional with an eye for historical processes, Menon is more in sync with the PM's view that some out-of-the-box thinking was needed to break time-defying logjams. Though Sharm el-Sheikh joint statement has now been abandoned, the ill-fated document reflected PM's desire to move beyond the "obvious". The Baluchistan reference was explained as reflective of India's confidence that it had "nothing to hide".

It is not that Menon isn't pragmatic on Pakistan. "If you owe the bank enough, you end up owning it" is the pithy manner in which he likes to sum up Pakistan's ability to leverage the US. The PM himself has insisted that unequivocal steps against terror by Pakistan are a must.

Menon's role in the India-US nuclear deal makes it obvious that he will not be confined to neighbourhood issues alone. The PM is quite conscious of India's role in world affairs but it is also felt that it can't be bypassed on any number of issues ranging from climate change to economic recovery. Setting India's backyard in order can't be put off much longer.

[RayC]

ONE POST TOO MANY

Hype has an innate tendency to deflect attention from the most critical aspects of any given situation. Very recently, the post of the National Security Advisor has come in for some attention. This was a function of a number of things: the departure of the present incumbent, M.K. Narayanan, for a gubernatorial position in West Bengal, his falling out with the home minister, P. Chidambaram, which might have caused his exit, and finally the appointment of Shiv Shankar Menon to the post. The point that was missed in all this is a fundamental one: should there be a post called the National Security Advisor? The answer, however startling this may sound, is no, since the post bypasses the existing system and, with no rationale, conflates security and strategy.

The origins of the NSA lie in the internal squabble within the administration of the United States of America. Henry Kissinger won for himself the real leverages of power as the NSA and became the person who monitored the internal security of the US and also coordinated external intelligence-gathering and operations. Mr Kissinger thus made himself the mastermind of US policy during the Nixon years. This idea was imported into India during the prime ministership of Atal Bihari Vajpayee by his powerful and crafty principal secretary, Brajesh Mishra. Not satisfied with his critical and ubiquitous role in the prime minister’s office, Mr Mishra also wanted to run India’s foreign policy. So he got himself appointed as NSA.

The post of a NSA has embedded in it an ambiguity. This concerns the second letter in the acronym. Does it stand for security or strategy? If it does stand for security, as it is made to in its present incarnation, then it has no place in the prime minister’s office. It should be directly under the home minister and its relationship with the existing security agencies should be clearly defined. The question why there should be a post over and above the existing agencies should also be addressed and clearly answered. In fact, there is no clarity on these issues and the NSA is caught between the prime minister’s office and the home ministry. If, on the other hand, the S stands for strategy regarding foreign policy, then it makes redundant the post of the foreign secretary and the foreign minister. It is the responsibility of the foreign minister and the foreign secretary, in consultation with the prime minister of course, to lay down the principles of foreign policy and to ensure its implementation. What need then of the NSA?...........
Think it Over. What US does is good for Us!

Think it over!

Apparently what US does is the best.

We have frozen out brains?

Forgive me, I am being deliberately obtuse. Are we any less than others to decide what is best for us?

[ramana]

http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... sa/383406/

Aditi Phadnis: No templates for the NSA
Aditi Phadnis / New Delhi January 23, 2010, 0:40 IST

His predecessors have defined the job, there is no fixed format.


Another Republic Day. Another National Security Advisor (NSA), Shiv Shankar Menon. What’s this one going to do?

First, what he’s going to do that people are afraid of: Act as a super foreign secretary, micro-manage foreign policy, run the foreign office…

The fears are not unfounded. The temptation of doing what you’ve been trained to do for 40 years is great. The job has been defined by the people who’ve occupied the post, so there’s no template.

You had the Brajesh Mishra model: He was the one-stop advisor to the prime minister (PM) on everything that included security, strategic dialogues with a dozen countries and the nuclear doctrine; but virtually at war with the rest of PM Atal Bihari Vajpayee’s council of ministers. There were at least two attempts to oust him, one when Jaswant Singh acted as the emissary of LK Advani and George Fernandes.

Then there was JN Dixit who had a relatively truncated brief and was determined to leave India’s — and his own — imprimatur on the world. At the height of the Maoist blockade of Kathmandu, which saw Nepal’s capital being cut off from the supply of essential commodities, he convened a meeting of the three service chiefs in the PMO to discuss the feasibility of airdropping supplies, a throwback to the 1987 breadbombing in Jaffna. The Nepalese were both aghast and terrified at the move which some saw as a first in the imminent takeover of Nepal by India a la Sikkim. Ridiculous, but there it is.

And then there was MK Narayanan, much more in the Mishra mould but different, because the nature of the Manmohan Singh PMO was different. First hamstrung by the left parties, then by his own, Singh’s ability to find administrative solutions to political problems has been limited. An ineffective home minister left a breach that the NSA filled.

So what out-of-the-box thinking is Menon going to bring to the office of the NSA?

Hard to say. But here’s a wish list.

Please fix the neighbourhood. There has to be a much more rapid consolidation of the gains in relations with Bangladesh. Since much of the problem is home ministry-centric, it is the NSA who needs to keep his eye on the ball in relation to the rest of the field.

Myanmar is going to have elections in spring or late summer, the first since 1990 when Aung San Suu Kyi won a landslide victory and was imprisoned. The Foreign Office has lots of ideas about India’s dealings with Myanmar. But, with China watching closely, sudden jerks can cause pain. The US, thousands of miles away, can afford to be prescriptive about democracy everywhere, including in Myanmar — but India is right here.

In Nepal, everything could go to hell very quickly — in May 2010, in fact, the deadline for the new Constitution. Politically, India has to decide what it wants from the Maoists — because they’re not going to go away.

A presidential election is due in Sri Lanka on January 26. President Mahinda Rajapaksa has had India’s help from time to time, but has made his political career out of winning over the Tamils militarily. His rival, Sarath Fonseka, even more so. While there is political principle involved here (rights of minorities, etc), maybe it is time India-Sri Lanka relations grew out of the Tamil question. More so as elections in Tamil Nadu in 2011 will see a changed, possibly different dispensation in the state.


Afghanistan poses the toughest challenge. US Defence Secretary Robert Gates has set the red lines for India: You’re doing a fabulous job (and spending a lot of money) on development and training but, please, just do that. No military help needed, thank you. But India knows the unparalleled relations it has with the Afghan people. This is Pakistan’s greatest envy. The West treats Afghanistan as a pimple in the world’s armpit. But it is a proud and valiant nation.

An Indian eyewitness, who was in the Afghan foreign ministry when a rocket-and-suicide bomb-combo went off recently (Foreign Minister Rangin Spanta was in the building and spent 90 minutes in the basement), had this to say about the counter-terrorism operation: “Afghan security forces were professional, there was no panic anywhere. There was hardly any international force, the whole operation was led and implemented by Afghans. Despite such a coordinated attack (suicide bombers, men with guns, rocket attacks), they were not able to enter any building nearby (Afghan central bank, different ministries, Serena Hotel) and were finished in two hours.”

A far cry from Mumbai.

And maybe, the new NSA can find it in his heart to be sympathetic to Pakistan’s multiple crises, rather than being judgmental?

Follow this space for more punditry and more gratuitous advice to Shiv Shankar Menon!

[RayC]

Ramana,

Your answer lies in the post just before the one you made.

Think it over!

Too many cooks spoil the broth.

[Avinash R]

It is unlikely that Jyoti Basu (or any other Indian Communist) would have given away our secrets to China.

PDF file - 12.5 MB

http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/ESAU/esau-15.pdf

Worth a read, make your own inferences after reading this.