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The electric ones are still in prototype phase; nothing commony used yet. Besides, they aren't much less noisy. Most of the noise is from prop turbulence, and not the engine itself, I have been told.
The "micros"/"ultralights" are powered hanggliders. In general, a hangglider is much more conspicous and cannot be hidden easily. A powered one especially. However, I can see the danger of one being used to attack a nuclear powerplant or some such infrastructure target at night.
brihaspati wrote:There are electric (battery pack) versions of micro/ultralights, which would be much less noisy than petrol based ones. Still don't see how it would be greatly effective within India. Low flying ones between hills could be better hidden from radar. But simple weight-shift ones (the cheapest/lightest) without power - are practically useless for the supposed purpose. There is some Chinese electric powered version. Not remember off the cuff - but it was definitely mentioned in a meet last year. Micro's are quite easy to learn to fly. If at all such a contraption is being planned - it is most likely to be a weight-shift version with sufficient power, preferably the electric ones. Standard micros can easily carry two or one+payload. Pilots are however more likely to be trained/practised in a foreign country. In AFPAK they could be vulnerable to "scanning" while training. Preferably one which does not require licenses and certifications to fly solo for the class and category planned to be used. USA would come to mind. Canada, NZ, France, UK, Germany all possible within range.
Added later : remembered that there is a sea-plane version too. Against "ports"!! It gets more and more absurd!
It is on record that CIA and FBI had have been misguiding India that terrorist groups like the Lashkar-e-Tayyiaba (LeT) and the Harkat-ul-Jihad-e-Islami (HUJI), which operate against India in occupied Jammu and Kashmir state, are able to travel, raise funds, communicate, train and plan operations with seemingly little interference. The US Intelligence is pressuring India to believe that there exist links between David Coleman Headley and retired Pakistani military officers and Government officials who have given free hand to these groups in Pakistan. One fails to understand the double game being played by western powers as they are well aware of the fact that Kashmir is the root cause of tense relation between India and Pakistan. US is continuously giving warning signals to New Delhi that next terrorist strike will take place from Pakistani soil and target would be India's nuclear or IT installations or it would involve hostage taking of schoolchildren as the Chechen terrorists did in Beslan. In the past, whenever Indian or Pakistani governments made any attempt to hold talks to settle Kashmir issue, some invisible hands sabotaged the peace process. In all these years we have never tried to find out black sheep in our own files, who acts on behalf of US, Britain and Israel as their agents. Occupied Jammu and Kashmir puppet Chief Minister Omar Abdullah's is trying his level best to bring economic development in the state so that Kashmiris may give up their right of self-determination. In the same regard, a loan of Rs 2500 crore has been secured for infrastructure development from Asian Development Bank (ADB). The conspiracy of dividing Andhra Pradesh and establishment of Telagana as separate state is in fact also linked with occupied Jammu and Kashmir state. As per the plan, it was expected that once Telegana acquires the status of separate state, other states would also follow the same path. India is hopeful that after seeing on ground development of Rupees 2500 crore, Kashmiris may give up their struggle for independence in favour of separate state under the Indian union
In fact, if we collaborate, we can make better 3D cartoons and animations using software like 3D studio max, Maya etc. I am sure some jingo is good at one of these programs. I have used 3dStudio Max once to make some cartoons for a publication and I was impressed by how good they came out.
Gagan/Anujan, shall we call an LMU e-mail meet on this issue? if any other jingo wants to join the list, contact one of us.
The trick would be to smuggle arms and a microlight into India. Having done that the best bet would be to recce for a field outside a city from where one could take off with a payload of jihadi + weapon + grenades. A couple (or a single) Pakistani fired up to do the work of Allah could be a launched at the time of a cricket match or other crowd pulling event to mow down a few score people while he yells that Allah taala will recognize his martyrdom before he is neutralised.
It is feasible. It would be just that - a terror causing event. India might need a few more like that to tip the balance and start punishing Pakistan militarily, diplomatically and economically as policy.
Pakistanis find it easy to talk of cultural and sport exchanges. The IPL auction makes an interesting point about exactly how far Indian governmental power goes. if the GoI cancels visas to Pakis - we have a whole lot of Indians up in arms blaming the GoI. But if the Pakis botch the goodwill they get by repeating Mumbai like attacks the Indian public might actually open its eyes. When we rant about GoI not punishing Pakistan, the government cannot do much unless the Indian public are angry and not talking in two voices. Recall that the Indian public has spoken in two voices even after 1999 and 2001. There was a hardening of public opinion only after 26/11 - but that hardening has not been enough to stop this Aman ki Asha travesty.
MurthyB,
just tried to fit in with my own experience of flying micros. Seems too risky and unreliable as a method of lobbing kilos of explosives. But not entirely impossible. Paragliders however could only be effective on isolated installations in hill-valleys or army camps. Even there, most likely to be caught in ground based firing - they are just too slow. Cannot seem to find any practical use of these light powered/unpowered flights for terrorism in the sense being projected. Even the sea-based versions - what utility? If boats cannot bring them in - a sea-based ultra will also not be able to come in. In urban setting - the winch can be used. But then that itself needs to be setup! The paragliders can be nice way of covering valleys along low hills - and a very fast and effective means of covering large distances over rough terrain. Had tried it with two others in a range in the Himalayas. The weather changes too fast and fogs/clouds come in too quickly. But if luck favours even 20-30 kms can be done with stops in a day. Just cannot tally the unreliability of it all - for military ops.
The Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) has decided to appeal to the ICC regarding the exclusion of all 11 Pakistani players from the IPL after the auction in Mumbai this week.
If they fail in ICC, they should take it to ICJ, their usual fetish.
Can micros be strapped with plastic explosives and controlled through some rudimentary (optional remote controlled) guidance system ... Improvised Airborne Explosive Device (IaED) ? Potential targets would be high profile buildings, IT Companies, Reliance Petro-chemical complex, Stadiums, Railway stations etc.
krithivas wrote:Can micros be strapped with plastic explosives and controlled through some rudimentary (optional remote controlled) guidance system ... Improvised Airborne Explosive Device (IaED) ? Potential targets would be high profile buildings, IT Companies, Reliance Petro-chemical complex, Stadiums, Railway stations etc.
Sir: Apropos your editorial ‘Politics at IPL’ (Daily Times, January 21, 2010), while one can understand the hurt felt by the Pakistani players and Pakistanis at large, I tend to believe that this is an instance of ‘non-state actors’ acting without the guidance of the Indian state. If Pakistanis and the Pakistan state can wash its hands of 26/11, why hold the Indian state responsible for the decision of a few rich individuals? After all, what is good for the goose should be good for the gander as well!
I am in broad agreement with you. As I said, PGs are too slow that they can be easily shot down, esp. if snipers are present during a daytime event such as a cricket match or a VIP parade etc. Powered micros and PGs could still be used for nighttime ops against infrastructure targets I think; for example, a dam. 5-6 powered HGs with 250lbs of explosives each (equivalent to an extra person) taking off in dead of night and doing a coordinated attack against a dam or nuclear plant might do serious damage if place doesn't have 24/7 security with forces trained to shoot down such things. Of-course, that also makes it possible to fly a cessna or crop duster type plane for even more speed and damage potential. So far terrorists don't seem to have been interested in infrastructure attacks anywhere, and are still fixated with causing civilian casualties.
US has no desire to control Pakistan’s nuclear weapons: Gates
ISLAMABAD, Jan 22 (APP): The United States does not covet a single inch of Pakistani soil; We seek no military bases here; and We have no desire to control Pakistan’s nuclear weapons, Secretary Defence of United States Robert Gates said in definite terms. Addressing the participants of National Defence Course at National Defence University, here on Friday, Gates said the US is prepared to invest whatever time and energy it takes to forge and sustain a genuine, lasting partnership with Pakistan.“I know that rebuilding relationships with this generation of Pakistani officers - who have had little or no interactions with the American military - cannot be done in just a few months. Rather, it will be the work of years - requiring openness, transparency, and, above all, continuous engagement on both sides.”
He said the fact is that the militaries of both US and Pakistan have a lot to learn from each other on many issues: whether operationally in the field; or learning about the complexities of respective histories, cultures, and traditions; or with regard to institutional matters like staff college curriculums, promotion and personnel policies, or procurement. “We are already making headway in these areas. To meet the urgent need to support your military as it expanded operations, the United States created the billion-dollar Pakistan Counterinsurgency Fund to rapidly provide material and training assistance to your troops on the front lines;The cooperation between Pakistani troops and international forces in Afghanistan operating along the border has improved in the last year and has had a real operational impact;
In the last twelve months, we have expanded our joint training exercises; and We have doubled funding to bring Pakistani officers to U.S. military training centers and schools to support your efforts to strengthen your officer corps.
“In all of this, a guiding principle is to
In a move apparently aimed at projecting Pakistan Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani as having conveyed a tough message to the U.S. and India, he has been reported to have told the visiting Defence Secretary, Robert Gates, that his government cannot guarantee there will be no repeat of the Mumbai 2008 attacks on Indian soil.
The purported remark did not find any mention in the official press release issued by the Prime Minister’s Office on Thursday after his meeting with Mr. Gates, and was selectively leaked to Dawn, the only news organisation that reported it.
....India must accommodate Pakistan on a wide range of issues, including the settlement of Kashmir, if it were to achieve the international prestige it aspires.....
Can't speak for India, of course, but this "international prestige" will come if Indian achievements - economic, scientific, in sports, arts, etc. - merit it; and otherwise not. And in any case, a self-confident people aren't really worried about "international prestige" but having actual real tangible goods. If all the jackals in the world howl to the moon in praise of India, what good will it do for India?
Iran has launched an anti Saudi movement in yemen. The shia militants there were targetting a takeover of yemen and who knows saudi arabia in the future? Given the speed with which Saudi Arabia has responded militarily in yemen, and also taking into account the fact that OBL's family is safe and sound in Iran, there is a possibility that OBL and Iran have joined hands to usrup the Al Saud family.
This was always on the Al Qaida and OBL's personal agenda. Perhaps attacking the west was a sideshow to gain popularity so that the real agenda of sweeping to power in Riyadh could be taken up.
Also the Gazwa-e-hind seems to be coming true if this is correct. The khilafa has risen from the Hindu-Kush and after conquering the land of the Hindu-kush has now turned westwards to attak the protectors of the two holy shrines.
If we have to shoot the paki dead, then it's fine. But, he should not land on the ground alive. If he does so, then he has to be severely injured such that he becomes a vegetable. Best bet is to shoot the chute at a good height, so that he succumbs to multiple fracture.
Yeah what if he lands in one of the thousand Hanumangarhs scattered across North Indi- our dehati cousins might smear them in pig blood and set them alight-the GOI must not let that happen as it will cross Pakistan's red lines. Of course it will also be barbaric, but I can anticipate it.
Shocking that in this day and age that the Government of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan continues to have on its statute books barbarous laws that permit collective punishment and further actually enforces such collective punishment.
Here is a news item of a case of collective punishment inflicted by the Government of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan on the minority Pashtun / Pathan including a teenage student who I would estimate on the basis of class attended to be around 15 years old.
Most interestingly the dominant Punjabis of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan are immune from the legally sanctioned depredations of this law. Talk about discriminating against minorities!
55 tribesmen held in VC’s kidnapping case
Saturday, January 23, 2010
By By our correspondent
DARRA ADAMKHEL: Under the collective responsibility clause of the Frontier Crimes Regulation (FCR), the political administration has arrested 55 tribesmen so far in connection with the kidnapping of Dr Lutfullah Kakakhel, Vice-Chancellor of the Kohat University of Science and Technology (KUST), sources said on Thursday.
…………… The arrests were made following the Supreme Court’s order for the recovery of the kidnapped VC. The process of arrests has been continuing since December 2009 and some of the arrested persons were identified as Muhammad Umar, a student of 9th Class, Haji Abdullah, Nadir Khan and two sons of Dadu. ……………………
A Delhi court sentenced a Pakistani national to six years rigorous imprisonment on Friday for opening fire at the police and army personnel in an encounter during search operation in Jammu and Kashmir in 2004.
Zafar-ul-Haq, in his early 30s, was also imposed with a fine of Rs 3,000 by Additional Sessions Judge Brijesh Sethi after being held guilty of attempt to murder under the Ranbir Penal Code in vogue in Jammu and Kashmir and other offences under the Arms Act.
During the arguments on the quantum of sentence, amicus curiae Dinesh Sharma sought a lenient view against the convict on the ground that no injury was caused to any army or police personnel during the firing.
He also said the convict had an aged mother to look after as his father died during the trial.
The defence counsel has put forth the arguments correctly on behalf of the client, though he is an abominable Pakistani. However, the question is if that influenced the judge or not ? I don't know what was the maximum punishment possible in such a case.
the glider strategy may be to sneak in a night before and plant timer devices - whether ipl or rep day. this could also include a soosai attempt by hiding somewhere up a tree / inside a dust bin... they should have guards every 25m night and day in these locations both inside and outside the premises and have some motion sensors / cameras looking skywards... etc etc.
V_Raman, this has been said on BRF that that pomp and show should be done away with. Instead we should send one guy in shorts with a dismissive attitude to just go there with a danda and get it over with.
The United States does not covet a single inch of Pakistani soil; We seek no military bases here; and We have no desire to control Pakistan’s nuclear weapons, Secretary Defence of United States Robert Gates said in definite terms.
When you hear things like this from a Amriki honco, you can simply remove the "no" from all the sentences he uttered.
Isn't it strange that Mr.Gates made his "one more 26/11 and India will bomb you" speech and within one day there is this warning by Indian intelligence regarding possible plane hijacking threat? Has the GOI, with possible CIA inputs,preempted a possible "spectacular" strike by TSP establishment. The statement of Mr. Gates almost sounded like a green signal for India to act militarily in the event of another attack.
When Gilani tried to absolve his administration by saying that he is not in a position to guarantee the prevention of another 26/11 attack, the MEA replied by saying that in case of any further 26/11 type attacks,Pakistan would be held responsible and that there would be consequences.
I feel that the recent statements by GOI and USA point indicate that something is up.
Isn't it strange that Mr.Gates made his "one more 26/11 and India will bomb you" speech and within one day there is this warning by Indian intelligence regarding possible plane hijacking threat? Has the GOI, with possible CIA inputs,preempted a possible "spectacular" strike by TSP establishment. The statement of Mr. Gates almost sounded like a green signal for India to act militarily in the event of another attack.
Absolutely no doubt. Even the UK ambassador here chipped in with his 2 paise about Pak and responsibility for terror.
Most likely, western agencies ( MI6 or Amriki) detected a plan, informed India, got Gates to warn Pak and India also ensured that it let Pak know about having knowledge on the plot by publicly issuing statements.
If Geelani says that Pak cannot guarabtee more terror attacks against India )laucned from Paki territory),then he is admitting that he-the Paki govt. of the day has lost control of the country.His other absurdity that "good bi-lateral relations will stop terrorism" is hilarious in the extreme.Clearly the man is either mad as a hatter,or a barefaced liar of the worst order.I prefer the latter explanation.It then indicates that what he is trying to say between his lying teeth,that if we don't hand over Kashmir to them,they will continue their terror attacks.
This leaves India with only two options.Plan for a military confrontation with Pak,where we attack and take out the terror bases and their leadership,or close the door firmly in Pak's face diplomatically.The latter option would be better as a first step before we undertake the second if neccessary.Suspension of all diplomatic ties with Pak indefinitely will also show the globe that India has had enough of the pestilential terror state.No govt. (other than China) will misunderstand our action if taken.Even the British PM has said on record that almost all terror attacks come from Pak.India can easily conduct excellent bi-lateral relations with the other SAARC members keeping Pak ostracised.We also leverage this internationally,charging the pariah state of Pak as terror HQ of the world and demanding that other nations follow India's example.Those nations who maintain their strong ties with Pak will suffer the loss of better ties with India.What must be clearly understood by Pak's frineds is that hthe state of relations between India and Pak is because of Pak's terror campaign and not the issue of Kashmir.
Part of the second option should be orchestrating the break-up of Pak through assistance to the Baluchis,Sindhis and other disaffected members of the state.A massive concerted effort to also sustain the govt. in Afghanistan,through stronger defence and economic ties should also be done simultaneously.Afghanistan is vital to India's strategic security planning and we must maintain and further improve our efforts at rebuilding and supporting that country. The message to Paki friends liek the US must be loud and clear.Sell Pak arms and eqpt. which will be used against India and suffer India.
I think there may be a connection between anticipated Chennai attack, LeT getting paratrooper capabilities, low flying option to avoid radars and a costal city which is a rich target. I beleive Chennai in the attacks threat seems credible.
Can't speak for India, of course, but this "international prestige" will come if Indian achievements - economic, scientific, in sports, arts, etc. - merit it; and otherwise not. And in any case, a self-confident people aren't really worried about "international prestige" but having actual real tangible goods. If all the jackals in the world howl to the moon in praise of India, what good will it do for India?
Well said. Matter of fact, prestige comes from self-confidence. And if India does all the things you said, and its people are happy, thats enough prestige. Washington or London need not confer prestige (I recall the prestige you enjoyed at IIT Chennai for for your achievements, not because I conferred it on you ). But note the bugger Cohen has nothing to say and TSP's use of terror as an instrument of state policy against India, and he is worshipped in India. Also, note his readng of MMS, something that I have been saying; if its up to him alone, he is prepared to make major concessions on Kashmir: joint soverignty for a start and eventual surrender.
Muppalla wrote:I think there may be a connection between anticipated Chennai attack, LeT getting paratrooper capabilities, low flying option to avoid radars and a costal city which is a rich target. I beleive Chennai in the attacks threat seems credible.
More than Chennai per se, it might be Kalpakkam or even Kudankulam down south. There have been a lot of suspicious activities around these two places lately, especially off Kudankulam. The powered gliders may take off from ships or even fishing vessels and easily cover 12 or so nautical miles to target the facilities. They cannot be detected by coastal radars of the IN/CG which in any case are not available in most places in peninsular India. Besides, the LTTE had for long used the TN coast and know how to infiltrate. We know that the ISI-LTTE work together.
The primary goal of the flying PIG would to penetrate multiple layers of defensive firewalls without triggering an alarm. I do not expect the flying PIG to use weapons while flying. Most security setups are designed to prevent attackers from the ground. A flying PIG can bypass all those checks and get very close to the high value target. From what was written earlier, the electric powered once are not that noisy. And even if they are noisy, the PIGs might start with a diversionary attack along the ground route, while the main attacking force ingresses by flying in from a different area, while the security ring focuses on the diversionary attack.
A French judge probing a Pakistan bomb attack that killed 11 French engineers has asked Britain and Switzerland to provide whatever information they have on allegations of embezzlement by President Asif Ali Zardari.
Judge Marc Trevidic made the request to help him advance his probe into claims the 11 were killed in May 2002 by Pakistani agents taking revenge after a new French government cancelled illegal commissions on an arms deal.
Displaying an alarming denial about the nature and urgency of the threat, an Army spokesman said there would be no offensive in the tribal region of North Waziristan — where the Afghan Taliban are based — for at least six months and perhaps as long as 12 months. Given the speed and virulence with which the extremists have spread their hatred and violence in the past year, that’s too long to wait.
To its credit, Pakistan’s Army has mounted big offensives against Pakistani Taliban factions in the Swat Valley and South Waziristan and paid a steep price: losing 2,000 soldiers in battle. It may need some time to solidify these gains and prepare a new assault. But that is almost certainly not the real reason behind the delay.
Pakistan’s Army and spy service helped create the Afghan Taliban, and even now they see the group as a proxy force to limit India’s influence in Afghanistan once the Americans leave. That is truly playing with fire.
Pakistan cannot afford to give the Afghan Taliban a pass, and Washington must make sure that Islamabad faces up to that reality. Mr. Gates tried to nudge Pakistan when he spoke publicly about how Islamabad cannot “ignore one part of this cancer and pretend it won’t have some impact closer to home.” We hope he was firmer in private
Washington must also do more to help lessen tensions between Pakistan and India.
What about someone goes on top of a multistoried building, say in Dwarka in Delhi, and then
using a glider lands into one corner of IGI airport runway. Or, gets on top of TATA center
in Kolkata, and similarly glides to Fort William. Say in early morning or evening. is it too difficult if some one goes thru regimented training?
Guys: I am still mystified at the #of dot balls in TSP of late.There seems to be some method, someone is in control of the batsman. Something is definetly cooking. I can't believe that TSP bowlers are so accurate in stopping the sixers that were routine just a few weeks ago.
^^^Maybe shrilleen is right after all...'twas the goddarn khans pulling the strings all along..... they've heldoff for until after Sri Gates' visit perhaps.....teabreak over, back to business I reckon...
X Posted. The testimony of the UK’s Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, David Miliband, to the US Senates Foreign Relations Committee.
Highlights the infestation of Islamic terrorists within the Islamic Republic of Pakistan who are targeting Afghanistan:
The Afghan Taliban leadership is based primarily in Pakistan. Senior commanders there, under the leadership of Mullah Omar, provide strategic direction to insurgents over the border, if not operational command, directed at retaking territory and power in Afghanistan.
The fighters within Afghanistan draw on external funding, support and shelter. Militants move freely across the border with Pakistan. The insurgencies in the South and East of Afghanistan are directed partly from across the border in Quetta, Peshawar, and Waziristan.
). But note the bugger Cohen has nothing to say and TSP's use of terror as an instrument of state policy against India, and he is worshipped in India. Also, note his readng of MMS, something that I have been saying; if its up to him alone, he is prepared to make major concessions on Kashmir: joint soverignty for a start and eventual surrender.