Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

[Nihat]

Almighty rant by Mr. Chaudhary in Daily Times Ed. . He makes an awful lot of points but I still fail to understand the ultimate assertion he is trying to make.

http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?pa ... 2010_pg3_5

Also , someone care to expalin what he means when he says "SM Krishna is Indias most Deliberate Foreign Minister till date"

[sinha]

That he speaks in slow and unhurried motion and is not likely to put foot in the mouth and shoot like his glorious Baki counterparts....

[chetak]

That he speaks in slow and unhurried motion and is not likely to put foot in the mouth and shoot like his glorious Baki counterparts....

So did Jaswant Singh.

The pakis particularly hated his rich baritone voice!!!

[chetak]

Almighty rant by Mr. Chaudhary in Daily Times Ed. . He makes an awful lot of points but I still fail to understand the ultimate assertion he is trying to make.

http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?pa ... 2010_pg3_5

He is calling the IPL a " non state actor " with all prejudice.

[Anujan]

US nuclear duplicity ---- Asif Ezdi

As the reputed US journal Arms Control Today wrote in its issue of July/August 2009, “Indian military planners foolishly believe they can engage in and win a limited conventional conflict without triggering a nuclear exchange, even though the Pakistani army’s strategy relies on nuclear weapons to offset India’s overwhelming conventional superiority.” It is this thinking that lies behind India’s offensive military doctrines like “Cold Start,” and statements such as those made by Kapoor.

That "SDREs are Foolish" article was written by Daryl Kimball. This Daryl Kimball character is a well know NPA. He frequently has verbal D about "Peace in south asia"

[Philip]

Indian civilisation is so ancient and so strong that no matter how many invaders conquered parts of the country,they eventually succumbed to India,were assimilated and merged themselves with India.Whatever was of value in their culture and traditions,India absorbed into its own vast heritage and grew richer.We are a "cosmic" nation.I can give you one cosmic incident which describes India best.Some years ago there was a massive comet strike on Jupiter.For a long time scientists and astronomers watched the effect that had been made on Jupiter's surface.Eventually Jupiter was back to its normal look and no traces of the comet strike was evident.WE must also thank our geography,where on the north we have the world's most massive mountain range,the Himalayas,protecting us from the Chinese,with the seas on two sides.It was the Europeans who arrived from the sea and entered through our undefended coastline.The traditional route of invaders was from the west through what is now Pak.

Given the current chaos in Pak,where no institution can handle the chaos in the country,which has also been mauled by asinine US foreign policies,our best bet is to adopt a policy similar to which the Israelis are adopting with the Palestinians.Build a "wall",a fence all along the border,which will as far as possible keep out the ungodly species,coupled with a strong military machine capable of inflicting catastrophic ruination to Pak if it resorts to war again and also build a "diplomatic wall" by suspending relations with Pak indefinitely until it becomes civilised or simply breaks up.Let the entities in pestilential Pak sort themselves out or sort each other out! There is no point in indulging in meaningless diplomatic exercises are all sound and fury signifying nothing.Remember Pranab's glee at the sound diplomatic thrashing that we gave Pak after 26/11! Does it fool anyone anymore? A plague on all their houses.

[shiv]

As regards CramS' observation of the obsequiousness towards a Muslim actor, Indians have an irritating trait of trying to ingratiate themselves on those of higher social stature. I would see nothing political or religious in it.

Really? Well blow me down. Einstein could not have done better. Then how is obsequiousness towards Salman Khan a victory for Pakistan or the Mughal empire? And what connection does an Indian trait of obsequiousness so well documented by you and CRamS become relevant to this thread?

This is the sort of laughably pathetic waffling one gets when you try to use a band aid to cover a rotting corpse. Here is CRamS's statement that you have converted into a self goal by saying that he was talking about ordinary common or garden obsequiousness of Indians.

And this SalmanJi was sitting there soaking up all that the slaves threw at him, and making a fool of the SDREs. But for the fact that Salman Khan is a naam kae vaastae Indian, it was Moghul TFTA Lordhsip over Hindu SDREs at its vintage best. No wonder Bollywood runs in the jugular vein of TSPians, especially Pakijabis.

[somnath]

^^^ The Indo-Pak thread is now one for examining (read bashing) the (lack of) patriotism of Indian muslims!

I am a bit amazed at the examples being trotted out. Salman Khan (fourth rate actor, but thats secondary) running over the pavement dweller. the nastiest incident of this sort was perpetrated by Adm Nanda's grandson in Delhi (the infamous BMW case) - last I checked nothing much has happened to him?

Anecdotes of muslim celebration of Pakistani cricket victories - used to be Shiv Sena's pet peeve once upon a time - in the last 7-8 years even they have stopped talking about it..

If there is a fifth column amongst the Indian muslims, it has to be very very small...Else there would be no way how/why the country would have been saved from multiple civil wars...One has to only see what a (reasonably) small group of disaffected tribals has managed to do in AP/Orissa/Bihar/Jharkhand..Why arent our cities (and most of them have a very large muslim populace) at least mini clones of Karachi or Peshawar?

Trying to extend quasi (actually pseudo) sociological analyses on muslim rule in India and muslim psyche etc is a poor substitute for hard-nosed strategic decision making..Both (punjabi-type) sentimentalism as well as simplistic "they are genetically prgrammed like this" are counterproductive to wise strategy..

Pakistan is actually becoming quite irrelevant to our grand strategic calculus. It will retain its nuisance value for the whole world - and more so for us as we are in its immediate neighbourhood. But the sort of challenges we are confronting today has Pak at a very long distance to the periphery, soemtimes not even that..

the challenge for us therefore is how to manage, and help ourselves let the world manage Pak...

[csharma]

AL Jazeera discussion on Gates visit.

Inside Story - Is America arming the subcontinent?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XalcyfR1VxQ

Al Jazeera tends to give prominence to Pakistani views, IMHO. Too much equal equal. One of the questions by the anchor was: Why is US funding and arming both Indian and Pakistan? The American guest said US is not funding India and India is becoming wealthy and is a rising power.

[KaranR]

Economic shocks in store for Pakistan
interviews of some top official of Finance Ministry who usually attend all the meeting with US officials.

In the wake of these developments, Pakistan’s establishment has started working on Plan-B to save the country from economic jerks which are being expected. Now the officials are tight lipped about the vigorous work being done on war footing to finalize the Plan B to ensure minimum impact of the horrendous economic shocks.

Plan “B”, ask China, Saudi Arabia for money or even worse dig tunnels near Punjab and start a war with India.
I think plan “A” was IPL money.

[shiv]

Eons ago,...( seen with eyeball mk.1). ...All these incidents are personally witnessed and so, very tough to erase/forget.

The meaning of eons ago is important. I live close to the area you mention and I have some idea of what happens in that area in this day and age and want to ask you which year would be "eons ago". Memories of Lahore in 1940 would naturally differ from the reality of Lahore 2010, so the date is important.

[shiv]

Trying to extend quasi (actually pseudo) sociological analyses on muslim rule in India and muslim psyche etc is a poor substitute for hard-nosed strategic decision making.

Well said - but hard nosed strategic decision making is a tough thing to do if you have convinced yourself that your ancestors were ruled for 1000 years and that you need to keep expressing that grievance along with your fears, anger and/or anguish at every possible opportunity.

[Neela]

Hmm... interesting that no one is calling CramS's bluff on Bollywood!

Isn't screening of Bollywood films one of Pak's perennial quandaries? ( read Yindoo culture)

[Sanku]

This is what escapes those who insist on seeing the SDRE-Islam clash as a head-on, zero-sum collision. It has never been. We don't play by the same rules, we're not even playing for the same results.

So, no predictable conflict, struggle or fight - things followers of the Abrahamnic religions understand so well. Just accommodation and absorption.

Great posts folks, and I agree a lot, accept that to remind that in Indian memes there may be a 100 forgiveness of Sishupal but then there comes 101, there may be a "sandhi-vachan" of "paanch gram" but then follows Mahabharata.

Lord Rama may pray to the ocean for 5 days but then, he needs the Bramha-astra.

Ravan may be offered a choice of surrender -- but then Lanka burns.

etc.. etc..

The reason why Indic forces have sustained themselves so long (apart from the fact that are built on a smart understanding of natural systems) is that they balance the NICE with the RUTHLESS, a epitome of good cop, bad cop game.

And whenever we forget the balance and move in one direction -- comes disaster -- so let us remember the ability to completely destroy your enemy with "occasional" display of that talent is the half the game.

--------------------------------

Pakistan is actually becoming quite irrelevant to our grand strategic calculus. It will retain its nuisance value for the whole world - and more so for us as we are in its immediate neighbourhood. But the sort of challenges we are confronting today has Pak at a very long distance to the periphery, soemtimes not even that..

To come to another of things I agree and disagree with at the same time is the above line of thinking.

Is Islamic Republic of Pakistan all the things that Somnath says -- yes to a great extent.

Are our challenges greater than Pakistan etc... -- certainly.

Is Pakistan the geo-political entity currently infesting the western landmass of eternal India "irrelevant to our grand strategic calculus" -- NO

That part of the world due to its geography, current stake holders, future possibilities, past impacts on our psyches (not washed away yet) nothing less than continuing to be absolutely critical.

Pakistan will decide the future of India, it always has and it will again -- we will be foolish to forget that -- and mistake the State of Pakistan -- as region and impact of the western part of Indian subcontinent.

[amit]

Hmm... interesting that no one is calling CramS's bluff on Bollywood!

Isn't screening of Bollywood films one of Pak's perennial quandaries? ( read Yindoo culture)

Bollywood is potentially the biggest destabilisation tool in India's hand as far as the pious in Bakiland is concerned. That's why whenever they are unhappy (like the IPL thing) they call for stopping of screening of Bollywood movies. Added to the mix has been the silly Ekta Kapoor type of Bahu-Saas soaps carried by Indian TV.

I've read articles of how the sari has made a come back in fashionable circles in Paki land because of the influence of these two. Mehindi is also quite a rage I hear.

A Salman Khan playing Veer or a Katrina Kaif playing the typical pious Hindu bahu and being watched by their followers in Pakistan has a more destabilising (from the fundamentalist point of view) potential than some fire and brimstone speech by Shiv Sena or VHP.

But sometimes such obvious logic is missed by otherwise highly intelligent people.

[Philip]

We must always remember that it is in the interests of the PRC to have India and Pak at loggerheads always.This diversion of India's strength and resources to deal with its mercenary Pak allows China to forge ahead around the globe.Therefore,India should re-examine its diplomatic strategy with pak and concentrate upon dealing with China's perfidy which is more dangerous.If there is any nuclear exchange with pak,whom does it benefit most...China?!

Therefore,we should consign Pak to "coventry".Cut off all relations with it as long as it sponsors terrorism against India and enforce such a policy by a massive military modernisation and presence on the border to prevent yet another Paki adventure a-la-Musha-rat.Let us demonise it in every foreign fora-not too difficult a task as all Islamist terror seems to emanate from it.Let it rant and rave.When it finds that India is simply not listening it will either turn itself upon itself,with its factions devouring each other,or perhaps hopefully,though most unlikely (one can always hope though!), turn a new leaf.Let us not waste time upon the garbage dump and bloody wasteland on our western border.It is only politicos chained to the past like MMS and the pre-partition claque hungering for their past memories of pre-partition Punjab and Sindh,that in the evening of their years want to compromise and accomodate Pak,hoping to be rmebered by history as "peacemakers" by handing over to it across the table what Pak could never obtain on the battlefield!

[harbans]

Great posts folks, and I agree a lot, accept that to remind that in Indian memes there may be a 100 forgiveness of Sishupal but then there comes 101, there may be a "sandhi-vachan" of "paanch gram" but then follows Mahabharata.

On Rudraji's post specially this reference..

The SDRE's response to the challenges posed by cultures with a different game plan... kill, subjugate, force submission, convert, ghazwa etc... was to effect measured retaliations in force to the extent possible, establishing a sufficient position of strength, and once that position was established, using it to negotiate an accommodation. Did Shivaji or Ranjit Singhji turn into Timurlanes on victory and wipe out all Muslims within their conquered territories?

And the subject of hate and forgiveness a good read:

grasping forgiveness

Will also show why the WKK is wrong and why Kushner's and India's intrinsic approach have been most rational. India has refused to play the victim card and that rejection comes across to Paki's as high moral handedness and causes even more takleef.

[Karmasura]

Archanji, I hope you don't mind, but I have copy pasted your poem into one of my poetry blogs, hyperlinking the post in which you had cross posted your poem.

The link to my blog is here http://newbiepoetry.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... peace.html. Feel free to say if you don't like it.

(edited later:) Can I also spread it on twitter? Could be a nice counter propaganda.

[shiv]

It is because our core philosophy was never "my village against their village, my family against other families in my village, me and my brother against others in my family, me against my brother". It was about establishing the broadest possible grounds for arriving at an maintaining a status quo of accommodative networks.

The SDRE's response to the challenges posed by cultures with a different game plan... kill, subjugate, force submission, convert, ghazwa etc... was to effect measured retaliations in force to the extent possible, establishing a sufficient position of strength, and once that position was established, using it to negotiate an accommodation. Did Shivaji or Ranjit Singhji turn into Timurlanes on victory and wipe out all Muslims within their conquered territories? On the other hand, didn't the Waliullahs and Maudoodis develop a mortal fear for subcontinental Islam's very identity, notwithstanding the fact that Muslims weren't threatened with genocide? Something about what the SDREs were doing... accommodation... scared the salwars off them. It went over their heads and around their flanks and they feared, perhaps, extinction by evolution.

In effect that drive to calibrated response and negotiation from strength directed at an endpoint of accommodation is what animates SDRE Indian foreign policy even today. Pakistan cannot stand against it. Look what is happening to them.

I am no mathematician, but there is a strange mathematical irony in the quest for accommodation between 1 and any number more than 1. The point at which accommodation is reached is always more than 1

This "accommodation" theory bears out well in game theory.

I say 1
You say 33 crore

Two options:

1) You and I fight. You might win or I might get hurt anyway and suffer some loss.
2) You and I decide to accommodate. I have my 1, you have your 33 crore

Game this out and check how the Nash equilibrium works out.

The strategy is not a losing strategy.

[SSridhar]

Anybody who triggers a report on any post, must write in plain English, not in the BENIS lingua. Such reports will be summarily deleted without any action being taken.

[archan]

Anybody who triggers a report on any post, must write in plain English, not in the BENIS lingua. Such reports will be summarily deleted without any action being taken.

Looks like I missed out on some fun. You deleted it too quickly.
Karmasura, you can use it anywhere you like as long as it is for the good. Thanks. I was thinking of using (at least parts of) it in comments section of Aman ki Asha type articles. Should be fun. Feel free to give a .

[somnath]

Well said - but hard nosed strategic decision making is a tough thing to do if you have convinced yourself that your ancestors were ruled for 1000 years and that you need to keep expressing that grievance along with your fears, anger and/or anguish at every possible opportunity.

I dont think that barring a microscopic minority, too many Hindus bother themselves with the "1000 year rule" syndrome..If they did, there was a great chance of a "proper" civil war targeting muslims in 1947, didnt happen..Could have happened in 1965, didnt happen..1971 - despite Indira Gandhi's foolish "avenged 1000 years of etc etc" didnt happen..

Our lack of a strategic culture is not a religious variable, it is the result of a "new nationhood" that we achieved in 1947...Our absence from power rivalries for more than 2 centuries and a new concept of nation state have meant that our strategic calculus also has had to take time to develop..Having said that, looking at the larger picture, we didnt do too badly, crtainly against Pakistan we have done wonderfully well..

The world has come to recognise that Pakistan is the source of possibly a chronic problem to the world...A country of 140 million with nukes cannot be gotten rid of..So like all chronic diseases, at least immediately we can only look to "manage" it..But it does not signal the end of our lives, figuratively speaking..India takes the greater heat from the Paki blast, but yet it does not take away from the greatr responsibilities on us as an emerging power, where Pakistan is not even a variable...

If I were the PM (or his NSA!), I would in fact have a period of complete silence on the topic of Pakistan - no words exchanged, no "talks", no accusations, no nothing..Not dissimlar to our approach to (say) Burkina Faso..It is a fact that we have very very limited political or economic levers to "influence" PAk behaviour. At the same time, we really dont need PAkistan for anything other than their role in our homeland security..So draw up the drawbridges....Start with restoring a semblence of efficiency to our police forces..Build "insurance" through a policy of securing Afghanistan..

BAsically, soem of what we are doing today, but without even the words, the "talks" about talks..Just silence...

[Kanson]

If we take the defeat of Sindi Hindu King by 8th century, where Sind is part of Unified India and till Mughal rule in 18th century, it is 1000 yrs. Or, if one can take the rule of Princely states by Nizams and Nawabs in the sub-continent till the partition, it comes around 1000 yrs.

[Chandragupta]

Wrt SRK, what else can you expect from these nachne walahs? These guys will dance in anybody's marriage or birthday for a few crores. Expecting any bit of nationalism from bollywood is weed grade dreaming. Even our 'Big B' was talking like a closet Paki with "meri beti ke shadi ka joda Pakistani se aaya tha". My foot. Before bringing religion in this, don't forget it was our good old Feroz Khan who slapped the Bakis in their own land.

[Fidel Guevara]

Chidambaram slams IPL for not picking Pak players

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 499429.cms

Terming non-inclusion of Pakistani players in IPL as a "disservice to cricket", home minister P Chidambaram on Monday said there was no "hint or nudge" from the government to do so.

Describing some of them as "among the best Twenty20" cricket players, he said "these players were coming as individuals, it was not a Pakistan team."

"...I think it is disservice to cricket that some of these players were not picked. I don't know why the IPL teams acted in the manner they acted. But certainly to suggest that there was a hint or nudge from the government is completely untrue," the minister told Times Now.
Chidambaram also said personally, as a cricket lover, he was disappointed over non-inclusion of Pakistani players.

Noting that the government had issued 17 visas to these players, he said "in fact, I am disappointed that the IPL teams, IPL organisers did not pick any Pakistani player."

Now why would a very smart man such as Chidambaram say something like this, when it's obviously causing so much heartburn with the Pakis and so much mirth amongst Indians?

Methinks it's a Chanakyan ploy to blow hot & blow cold - the good cop (the government) smiling benevolently while the bad cop (IPL owners) stab Paki aspirations in the musharraf.

[negi]

I think its high time Home minister realizes what his priorities are last year what happened to his love for the game when he moved IPL out of India ? Disservice to cricket wow big words not a long time ago when people were questioning him about GOI's response to 26/11 he threw his hands up in the air and asked 'What should we have done' I guess IPL franchise can also answer along the same lines .

And lastly he as a home minister does not have any say in proceedings of a private league they can choose to do what ever they want , why is he out in public ? Jeez I guess we have found our answer to Zaid Hamid.

[joshvajohn]

I think India should have included Pakistan players into the groups. It is sad that we loose our 'Indianness' which includes a generous hospitality inspite of Pakistan govt's support of terror in India. But the players are like relationship builders. I think it is time that we keep away too much of politics from games to many extent.

[milindc]

I think India should have included Pakistan players into the groups. It is sad that we loose our 'Indianness' which includes a generous hospitality inspite of Pakistan govt's support of terror in India. But the players are like relationship builders. I think it is time that we keep away too much of politics from games to many extent.

Yes, as soon as the Paki players stop insulting Hindus.

[shiv]

Well cricket is a religion in India no? Different people. Different religion.

[Gagan]

Pakjabis have so much convoluted thinking that even when they are getting screwed, they imagine they are screwing someone, otherwsie what could be reason of providing Lahore University students to visiting KSA sheikhs.

Err,
Any links for that bit of info?

[Gagan]

The only riposte to the 1000 year rule should be:

You have got a country for 60 odd years, you can't even rule that, you guys should stop deluding yourself about 1000 year rules etc.

It is possible to make this very colorful in Hindi / Urdu, even more in Punjabi.

[James B]

Pak will be held responsible if 26/11 recurs: India

Home Minister P Chidambaram expressed unhappiness over the way Pakistan has dealt with the evidence provided to it in connection with Mumbai terror attack and said India continues to be "vulnerable" as the "level of threat is pretty high".

He rejected Pakistan's effort to make distinction between state and non-state actors. "I don't think Pakistan can get away with this charade of making a distinction between state and non-state...if it emanates from Pakistan soil," he said.

"I never believe in this distinction between state and non-state actor as far as Pakistan is concerned and information that we have recently makes it quite clear that this so called distinction does not exist. Therefore, if there is another attack, emanating from Pakistan soil, I think whole world will hold Pakistan responsible," he told Times Now.

[RamaY]

I think India should have included Pakistan players into the groups. It is sad that we loose our 'Indianness' which includes a generous hospitality inspite of Pakistan govt's support of terror in India. But the players are like relationship builders. I think it is time that we keep away too much of politics from games to many extent.

I have even a better Idea.

Pakis can have four franchises - one each for Sindh, Punjab, Baluchistan, and Pakthunkwa. These franchises will be auctioned the same way KKK or BBB clans and our beloved WKK Bollywood wallahs can buy them. For security reasons, all the games will be played in within (current) Indian borders until Pakistan's internal unrest is solved.

This is how India can lead the family of 8 brothers

Problem solved!

[sum]

I think India should have included Pakistan players into the groups. It is sad that we loose our 'Indianness' which includes a generous hospitality inspite of Pakistan govt's support of terror in India. But the players are like relationship builders. I think it is time that we keep away too much of politics from games to many extent.

Was this a tongue in cheek comment or serious comment?

Just curious onlee..

[CRamS]

AL Jazeera discussion on Gates visit.

Inside Story - Is America arming the subcontinent?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XalcyfR1VxQ

Al Jazeera tends to give prominence to Pakistani views, IMHO. Too much equal equal. One of the questions by the anchor was: Why is US funding and arming both Indian and Pakistan? The American guest said US is not funding India and India is becoming wealthy and is a rising power.

Refreshingly, the best part of the interview was Sawhney declaring unequivocally that India is no superpower; refreshing bit of realism for a change. Towards the end they had Ahmed Quereshi; what strikes me about him is his accent. He has a clean American accent. Was he born in US? And in his used car salesman glib talk, he managed to make a few simple falsehoods about India's role in Afganisthan assume a life of their own. But the host couldn't summon himself to ask Quereshi as to why TSP is hated in Afganisthan.

I am waiting to see the skillful equal equal that US/UK will come up with after the London summit . TSP prostestations are so furious; any percieved 'victory' for India in Afganisthan will make the IPL insult look like a bear hug.

[sum]

Therefore, if there is another attack, emanating from Pakistan soil, I think whole world will hold Pakistan responsible," he told Times Now.

Interesting that the response to the next attack will also be "World will hold Pak responsible" and nothing more than that

Why is SRK's heart bleeding so much for TSP Cricket players?

BTW, didn't someone (I think Shobha De) comment on a rather vague/subdued/wishy-washy response of SRK against TSP after 26/11 attack?

What else do you expect from a guy who starts singing "Chak De India aur Pakistan" in a function where some Paki hockey players were also present and who keeps going on and on about how Pak is such a lovely place in every interview, from MTV to Zoom.

The meaning of eons ago is important. I live close to the area you mention and I have some idea of what happens in that area in this day and age and want to ask you which year would be "eons ago". Memories of Lahore in 1940 would naturally differ from the reality of Lahore 2010, so the date is important.

Shiv avare,
Eons = 98-99 timeframe.

Since its anyways OT here, wont elaborate more or continue on this topic. Back to Paki viewing and commenting

[surinder]

So did Jaswant Singh.

The pakis particularly hated his rich baritone voice!!!

Is that true? Any more details?

[archan]

If you find that your post has made it to the trash thread, you should 'get the point', hopefully.

[Masaru]

Meanwhile more whining

Chidambaram slams IPL for not picking Pak players

"...I think it is disservice to cricket that some of these players were not picked. I don't know why the IPL teams acted in the manner they acted. But certainly to suggest that there was a hint or nudge from the government is completely untrue," the minister told Times Now.

Chidambaram said "well, you see, if no player from a country is picked, obviously the country does feel insulted. But whether the reaction is proportionate or not it is not for me to comment.

Better to name this whole enterprise Paki Premier League and hold it in Pindi and Lawhore from next year to assuage the hurt feelings.

[surinder]

Social dynamics cannot be judged from movie industry.
For example most of Telugu actresses like Tamanna(from Mumbai) and Shriya Saran(From Dehradoon) are outsiders.
Does not mean that Telugus have any less liking for their own.
Hindi film industry was ruled a lot by Punjabi guys(Kapoors, Khannas, Chopras) and Tamil actresses(Rekha, Hema Malini) for most of its history.

Actually, prior to the Rekha/hema time, the males were mostly Punjabi (Kapoors, Anand, Sehgal, Pran, Khanna, Sagar), but females were mostly Musalims (Waheeda, Nargis, Meena Kumari, Shamsha begum, Noorjahan).

When, why & how the situation got reversed would be an interesting study.