The Trash Thread in the Trash Can (Use 4545 to Merge Posts)

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 01 Jan 2010 04:14

I say that we give RSingh a couple of more dispatches before making up our minds. RSingh, you better make the next two more interesting and believable. Besides I want to know how the 1000 year Islamic rule over the disunited Vedic population pencils out in one of the future dispatches.

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 01 Jan 2010 06:09

Hello All,

Speaking as a Canadian, born and living here almost my entire life, I would like to second VijayKumarSinha’s motion for a separate thread on ‘India-Canada News and Discussion’. However, I have my own rationale for this request. (NOTE: If you are either in agreement or indifferent, please ignore the rest of this long post, because you’ll consider it OT. If you disagree or oppose this motion, please read this post carefully. Thanks.)

1. The population of Canada is approaching 34 Million people, over 1 Million of whom descend from sub continental bloodlines. Given that Canada is an original G7 country with *enormous resources* and various pockets of highly-developed engineering and technological expertise, this represents a huge potential for bilateral relations to grow for the benefit of both Canada and India. I could go on and on, but my point is that proportionally, India has more popular exposure in Canadian society than it does south of the 49th parallel, and that therefore, inroads to improved relations between Canada and India may be more easily traversed than between India and the US. Moreover, since there is tremendous economic, academic and media integration between Canada and the United States, improving relations between Canada and India will spur improving relations between India and the United States – it’s a certainty.

2. While there is certainly much similarity between American and Canadian foreign policy decisions, there are notable differences and these often have very deep implications. Some salient examples which come readily to mind include; the US Embargo of Cuba, which Canada does not observe at all; the US opposition to the International Criminal Court, which Canada fully supports; and Canadian participation in UN Peacekeeping missions, which America eschews (unlike India). The Canadian position during multilateral treaty negotiations has also been markedly different from the American position, time and time again (notably for this audience, the ‘Convention on Cluster Munitions’, which Canada has signed and will likely ratify soon). All of this argues for a separate thread on ‘India-Canada News and Discussion’ distinct from the ‘India-US’ thread.

3. It is true that to outsiders, the cultural differences between the United States and Canada may be somewhat indistinguishable – and this is a shame – because there are many differences. Admittedly, it drives me nuts that many of my own countrymen don’t understand these differences themselves, and they are often overlooked here in Canada (while abroad, they are not even seen). As someone who has travelled and worked in the United States extensively, and who has known many Americans with whom I have discussed the cultural differences between Canada and the United States, allow me a quick explanation. IN BROAD STROKES (not intending to gloss-over any ugliness, which is certainly there in both Canada and the US), our early histories differed greatly, in that;

A. Where negotiations and treaties with indigenous peoples were more the norm in Canada (which were at the time British/French territories), in the US there were ‘The Indian Wars’ (i.e. feathers not dots) and the reservation system;
B. While the Americans rebelled against Britain (with “the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air”), Canada remained, to a lesser and lesser degree, a Dominion of Britain until the Canadian Constitution was patriated only in 1982. (Indeed, the Queen of England is still depicted on our currency and many of our postage stamps.) Among other things, this meant that;
C. Canadian soldiers were commanded by British officers in both WWI and WWII (and I’m sure I don’t have to explain to Indians the implications of that – for more info, Google ‘Dieppe Raid’). Which is offered here not to pass-over…
D. A hundred years of the American ‘Wild West’ (which is depicted in numerous Hollywood ‘Western’ films), while during the same period, north of the border, we had red-coated ‘Mounties’ of the ‘Royal Canadian Mounted Police’, who often patrolled *unarmed* across a northern land of “laws, order and good governance”. I guess this is why…
E. Many American slaves of African origin escaped to (relative) freedom in Canada on what was referred to as “The Underground Railroad” (Google it). All of these things mattered greatly at the time, and I can clearly see how it left indelible marks that all amount to significant present-day cultural differences between Canada and the United States.
F. Today, some of the most salient implications can be seen in the way Canadians enjoy something that has been referred to as ‘Universal Health Care’ a single-payer system of nationalized medicine, which is frequently denounced in the United States as ‘Socialism’ (a term that is poorly understood by Americans, but which Indians seem to understand much better). Similarly and arguably much more importantly….
G. In Canada, most schools from junior kindergarten (age 5), all the way up to what we call the 12th grade “High School” senior year (age approximately 18), are mostly funded by government coffers, with a view to providing students in every school, everywhere in the whole country, roughly the same level of funding (there are exceptions for schools with special needs children and also for schools with greater numbers of students whose mother tongue is not one of our official languages – which are English and French). This is a major aspect of how Canadian society attempts to give all of our sons and daughters equal access to greater opportunities. This is radically different in the United States, where local school boards are largely funded by property taxes, which means that wealthy neighbourhoods have very good schools, whereas in poor neighbourhoods, you’ve got poorly funded schools and the makings of a permanent underclass (which is not something we seem to have in Canada, at least not to the same degree as down south).
H. Moreover, in Canada, as in the United States, we do have a system of what is called ‘Public Housing’, where qualified poor people are offered lodging at greatly reduced rental rates, sometimes entirely for free. The salient difference in how this is done in Canada compared to the US; is that such housing projects are much, much smaller in Canada because we tend to spread them out, rather than cluster them all together, as they do in the US. This means, that in any given Canadian public school, you are likely to find a complete cross-section of students from households of various socio-economic levels, and by-and-large, the kids get along. It cannot be said in Canada, that the popular school kids are always the richer ones, and growing-up as we do over here, one cannot help but make friends across social divides. (As a Torontonian, and an alumna of our public school system, I can honestly say that I have been greatly enriched my whole life, by having friends of nearly every stripe, colour, ethnicity, religion, philosophical viewpoint, political leaning, sexual orientation and socio-economic status that you can possibly imagine. From what I understand – forgive me if you think I’m wrong – this would not have been possible in the United States, let alone anywhere else in the whole world. It's also a very big part of the reason why I LOVE CANADA as much as I do! )

These points A-through-H explain some of the cultural differences between Canada and the United States, which are superficially recognized by North Americans as a ‘Hockey Nation’, and the land of (American) Football and Baseball, respectively (Geesh!). Please note I am leaving aside the popular issues of gun control, comparative litigiousness, and how Americans see the purpose of their government as ‘to provide for the common defense’, while Canadians have much broader expectations of their governments (and we spell better too, as in ‘defence’ with a ‘c’).

4. There is indeed, very close cooperation between the Canadian and American security establishments, and arguably, this is one of the main things that makes Canada a client state of the United States – which doesn’t quite sit well with a Canadian Nationalist like myself. I am sure that I am not alone, as a Canadian, in my desire to see Canada more jealously guard our own interests and protect Canadian citizens to the utmost, than has been the case in the past (and that’s all I care to say about this point here and now

). Going forward, inasmuch as Canada faces a threat of terrorism (and we certainly do), and insofar as India faces the same threat (no doubt), and in consideration of the fact that America is (by it’s own admission), heavily dependent on the TSP, which is quite clearly not on the right side of the security issue – Canada can only benefit from closer security cooperation with India, especially in light of American assurances that Pakistan is “an ally in the fight against terrorism”. With American officialdom saying things like that about Pakistan; it should be obvious to clear-thinking Canadians (and Americans, for that matter), that some input from Indians would help to give us some of the perspective we certainly need and aren’t getting from official circles of Americans and Brits (especially with our brave Canadian troops on the ground in Afghanistan, right smack-dab in the middle of it, deployed as they are around Kandahar).

5. Consider also, that at present; roughly 80% of Canadian exports are destined for the United States. I have always said that this is putting too many of our grade-A Canadian eggs in one American basket – which is to say nothing against the average American – it’s just that American businesses are not always the best of trading partners (as the number of trade and commercial disputes across the Canada-US border clearly indicates, as does the periodic call for ‘Buy American’ protectionism), and it would be better for Canada to trade more far and wide. Given the abundance of Canadian supply, and the depth of Indian demand – it would benefit both Canada and India if there were much greater trade between them.

TO BE CLEAR, I like Americans very much, and I don’t mean to cause any offense to any American. Moreover, my love for my own “home and native land” (as the Canadian anthem says), does not preclude any affection or admiration that I certainly do have for both the United States and India and both of her proud peoples. I just think that it is better for everyone if we can all manage our own affairs better, more forthrightly, cooperatively, and respectfully, and that doing so will benefit everyone who is right-minded on the issues pertinent to relations between our great nations.

AND SO, having a separate BRF thread on ‘India-Canada News and Discussion’ is greatly desirable, and will serve both Canadian and Indian interests.

Lastly, let me say; HAPPY NEW YEAR and peace and prosperity for all!!!

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 05 Jan 2010 08:43

ajay pratap wrote:reading this thread one feels it is dhishum-dhishum thread

Indeed it is. Jagan used to open his pop corn bag and have fun with the Noooklear thread, it is pay back time now, for me to open my pop corn bag!

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 05 Jan 2010 14:51

ldev,

I had decided to stay away and lurk since BRF. notwithstanding the infirmities that you very correctly discovered, is a fine forum which is informative and educative.

There are all sorts who posts. Moderators cannot quite be blamed. Moderation is a mugs game and each Mod does have his own agenda. They are as human as you and me.

The slip does show.

But forgive and forget is my agenda!

Live and let live!

I understand your agony and it is for people like you that N3 and I stood up for. Too bad we were in the minority. I am sure there would be good reasons. I will not be a Daniel come to Judgement! I don't know who own this forum, but if it is Bharat Verma, who is an Armoured Corps Officer, I assure you that he would not be a party to what you feel that it is Hindu forum. If it is a Hindu heavy forum, then the posters and some folks who control the posts could be. But I am sure Varma knows nothing of it!

Let bygones be bygones.

The New Moon rises.

I am sure it will be for the good!

Don't carry bitterness in your heart even if you are justified.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 05 Jan 2010 14:57

RayC,

Thank you for that great post and for standing up for us.

I would like to know you better. Will send you an email on that mail id you had posted in the last thread in the next day or two.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 05 Jan 2010 15:02

ldev wrote:RayC,

Thank you for that great post and for standing up for us.

I would like to know you better. Will send you an email on that mail id you had posted in the last thread in the next day or two.

Skim through the junk that is posted and let your blood get charged and then go to the areas of your interest!

I am sure my posts would be termed as OT and deleted!

Read a book Wild Swans by Jung Chang and you will realise what all went during the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution and having read that I have no remorse!

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 08 Jan 2010 22:21

Folks,
Have we considered the possibilty that 26/11 was a multitheatre play?

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 08 Jan 2010 22:25

what do you mean by multithreatre?

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 08 Jan 2010 23:23

[deleted per request]

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 Jan 2010 02:20

Jarita wrote: As is case with any of the terrorist group many of these groups are controlled not only by the states that sponsor terrorism but by the nations that sponsor the states that sponsor terrorism too. So though all evidence eventually leads to North Western frontier of India, to learn about who instigates these groups, their actions, the mode of acting and the previous track record that should guide us in doing what we as third neutral sovereign country should do.

This is the key to the Mumbai attack. Too many nations(NATO) have assets inside Pakistan which are used for global events to change international laws, trade and commerce. Design the future as you want.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 09 Jan 2010 02:23

^^^^ This is from an article emailed to me. I don't personally know the writer, but he/she has a lot of detail and names etc

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 Jan 2010 02:26

Jarita wrote:^^^^ This is from an article emailed to me. I don't personally know the writer, but he/she has a lot of detail and names etc

Which is this third neutral country the email is talking about.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 09 Jan 2010 02:41

India

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jan 2010 02:44

Jarita, What exactly you are suggesting? If you want to summarize and post OK. Or else we dont want by parts.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 09 Jan 2010 02:52

Deleted

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 09 Jan 2010 06:19

One camp was for the Karkare side of the equation. The other camp was for specific targets at the Taj. Both opposing camps.

and Karkare wsa the same person who arrested Col. Purohit for the Samjhauta attacks. So Is author insinuating that RSS/BJP/Hindus are also involved in Bombay attacks?

Author needs to take a Daura-e-Aam at Darul-islam to become full fledged terrorist instead of leaking such asinine stories to the gullible indian public.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 09 Jan 2010 06:35

Nope. The author is clearly indicating an external geopolitical player in the elimination of Karkare.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 09 Jan 2010 07:24

deleted

sum · Post by **sum** » 09 Jan 2010 09:51

The doublethink began at home, and it has found willing takers at home. I personally have heard two Indian Muslims, well educated acquaintances of mine, explain their view that what happened on 26/11 was exactly as Zaid Hamid describes it. Hindu terrorists were being exposed by Karkare, so the Indian State in order to protect Hindu terrorists organized the 26/11 attacks... blaming them on Muslims and Pakistan.

Err, even former IG of Maharashtra, Mushriff has written a big book on this topic with the same idea.

So, there is no lack of takers of this theory ( seems to be very very widespread among the IM community though)

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 09 Jan 2010 10:30

^^^ There cannot be any doubt that the terrorists themselves were from Pakistan

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 09 Jan 2010 18:55

^^^ hey i did not say that.
Why is there no possibility that other groups may want to get rid of Karkare? He was a senior intelligence person. The very concept of Hindu terror is a fabricated concept.
As someone mentioned, D company is a candidate

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 10 Jan 2010 00:40

GJ

Did you report the post to the moderators??

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 10 Jan 2010 01:05

Oh dear! I forgot the preferred script
Yes! Pakistan is the perpetrator and originator of all externally driven shit that happens in India.

Fine? Sounds good?
Sorry, that I tried to introduce some other analysts ideas. Gotta stick to the script

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 10 Jan 2010 01:08

^
Got to stick to available "sources". Post the link and let the mods decide.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 10 Jan 2010 01:13

I'm sorry, Archan, but why exactly has my post been deleted? And for what transgression have I received the threat of a "warning"?

Certainly not for the reasons you have supplied in editing my post, because I have done none of the things you allege.

Please point out where in the post you have deleted, I stated that

1) Karkare was killed by anybody but Pakistani ISI-trained terrorists.

2) The "party I do not like" are "traitors".

What I have pointed out is how the baseless "Hindu Terrorism" propaganda purveyed by the Congress government during its persecution of Sadhvi Pragya and Colonel Purohit, rebounded *against* Indian interests after the 26/11 attacks.

The Congress government's creation and packaging of this propaganda angle (that Hemant Karkare as boss of the ATS was "close to a break on the Malegaon Hindu Terrorism case") constituted a propaganda self-goal beyond belief.

When Karkare got killed on 26/11, the Pakistanis did not have to think of a foundation for their propaganda of denial, because the Congress government of India and its subservient media orifices had already furnished one for them. The story had already written itself.

Karkare himself had had deep misgivings about the baselessness of the Pragya/Purohit case, and about the ridiculous public statements such as "Indian Army explosives were used by Purohit to blow up Samjhauta Express" that the Congress government was pressuring him to make.

Yet after his death, the pro-Congress media had reversed the truth, painting him as a great hero and tireless crusader against "Hindu terrorism".

That angle was adopted wholesale by Zaid Hamid, Shirin Mazari and others to portray the 26/11 attacks as stage-managed by the Indian State to silence a tireless crusader against "Hindu terrorism". It was adopted by Islamist apologists like Webster Tarpley in the West, circulated widely on the web and Youtube, and finally (most disturbingly) swallowed by at least a few Indian Muslims who are educated enough to know better.

This is the simple truth. The Congress government scored an own-goal by colluding in the creation of baseless anti-Hindu propaganda, which formed the basis for the Pakistanis' anti-India propaganda following the 26/11 attacks.

Also: the fact that Pakistan's propaganda was founded on the Congress' own anti-Hindu propaganda, has given the Pakistani version of 26/11 events more credence and believability among sections of the Indian citizenry.

(And yes, I do consider a daily barrage of public pronouncements and press conferences distorting the facts of a sub-judice case against alleged activists Sadhvi Pragya Thakur and Colonel Srikant Purohit, and publicizing their alleged activities with the term "Hindu terrorism", to be "anti-Hindu propaganda").

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 10 Jan 2010 02:50

Jarita, Facts can be twisted and selectively applied to prove almost anything as done in case of Apollo landings below.
http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicapollo.html

In fact your ideas are not too far from the following conspiracy which would be as difficult to disapprove as yours:

Shortly after the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami took place, the Al-Osboa' newsweekly in Egypt alleged that the tsunami could have been caused by an Indian nuclear experiment in which Israeli and American nuclear experts participated. Al-Osboa' further alleged that India, in its heated nuclear race with Pakistan, has acquired lately sophisticated nuclear know-how from the United States and Israel, both of which "showed readiness to cooperate with India in experiments to exterminate humankind," beginning with the heavily populated Muslim regions of southeast Asia, where the bulk of casualties took place. This claim was reported by other newspapers, some commenting on its possibility and others dismissing it

Usually there is not a big harm if multiple theories, some of which are half-baked are propounded.
In this case, however, propounding of half baked theories can have a very serious consequence since India is not only neighbor of the biggest terrorist country ever in the world, but also India is living in a world full of enemies within and without. Unless there is laser like focus on the main aspect of the attack, such attacks would be precursor to even bigger attacks and enemies within and without will continue with such useless propoganda. Hot air balloons are meant for different thread.

Jarita wrote:Oh dear! I forgot the preferred script
Yes! Pakistan is the perpetrator and originator of all externally driven shit that happens in India.

Fine? Sounds good?
Sorry, that I tried to introduce some other analysts ideas. Gotta stick to the script

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 Jan 2010 03:11

Karna_A wrote:
Usually there is not a big harm if multiple theories, some of which are half-baked are propounded.
In this case, however, propounding of half baked theories can have a very serious consequence since India is not only neighbor of the biggest terrorist country ever in the world, but also India is living in a world full of enemies within and without. Unless there is laser like focus on the main aspect of the attack, such attacks would be precursor to even bigger attacks and enemies within and without will continue with such useless propoganda. Hot air balloons are meant for different thread.

Something big is going on about creating all these stores for the Pak audience. The country is already reeling under lot of paranoid CTs for several decades. Now they are more into it with SeS and things.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 Jan 2010 04:58

Rudradev wrote:
Certainly not for the reasons you have supplied in editing my post, because I have done none of the things you allege.

What I have pointed out is how the baseless "Hindu Terrorism" propaganda purveyed by the Congress government during its persecution of Sadhvi Pragya and Colonel Purohit, rebounded *against* Indian interests after the 26/11 attacks.

Can you send me email with that post. I could not save it

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 21 Jan 2010 17:50

bahdada wrote:Agreed, I can't imagine the amount of putrid body odor in that room based on that gene pool.

Exhibit X. I am sure this is the reflection of underlying hatred I was referring earlier.

How many of the esteemed posters share this type of hatred with Telanganas and yet want to remain "United" and have no qualms to lay claims on Telangana resources?

anuj · Post by **anuj** » 21 Jan 2010 18:36

Do not tear away there masks cause that would break there freaking hearts.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 21 Jan 2010 19:33

anuj wrote:Do not tear away there masks cause that would break there freaking hearts.

Anuj,

This is as nonsensical as the post that it refers to.

{Edited}

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 21 Jan 2010 22:43

bahdada wrote:
anuj wrote:Here is a photo of telangana extremists from JAC

Caption : Members of the all-party Telangana Joint Action Committee during a meeting to discuss the future course of action in Hyderabad on Tuesday, Jan. 19, 2010. Photo: Nagara Gopal

Scary!!!
Agreed, I can't imagine the amount of putrid body odor in that room based on that gene pool.

bahdada should either withdraw that comment or withdraw from BRF.

hasmukh · Post by **hasmukh** » 25 Jan 2010 21:27

It's strange how "me best" classroom kind of debate is going on with members declaring that our civilization is strong hundreds of year old and no one can do anything to us while forgetting Hinduism has essentially been wiped out in Pakistan, Afghanistan , South East Asia , Middle East ( House of Mecca had idols ) and is nearing extinction in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Kashmir, and North East India, Sita Ram Goel has written book on it with detail chronology of events. The Truth is Islam is taking over much of the planet from Londonistan to Eurabia to India. The very local example is in heart of Punjab, city of Amritsar which had practically no muslims left after partition but now there is whole big ghetto with loudspeakers of mosques blazing into our ears in early morning thus hugely irritating old generation which had witnessed partition and others who have never heard the arabic music.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 02 Feb 2010 09:31

shiv wrote:
putnanja wrote:Absence of dialogue is hurting India - Siddharth Varadarajan
..and it's a lovely sexy pain that India is feeling and we don't want it to stop hurting.

More seriously how is it hurting? Frankly it hurts to click on that link - so someone please explain it to me. The last article I read that stated that India is being hurt by absence of dialog explained that India was being hurt because India and Pakistan were joined at the hip.

..I am still trying to figure that one out and now this article is being thrown at me early in the morning when I am most vulnerable.

I wonder what the selection criteria for a journalist at the Chindu looks like:

** Deleted **
I am extremely ashamed of these scumbags. I almost threw up my dinner on reading the title - couldnt go any further.

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 02 Feb 2010 09:51

Prem Kumar wrote:I wonder what the selection criteria for a journalist at the Chindu looks like:

a) Must be TamBram - Pallavi Iyer, Siddharth Varadarajan, Naxal Ram

As a TamBram, I am extremely ashamed of these scumbags.

I suggest that you edit your post that unnecessarily generalizes and villify a sect. There are already a lot of nut cases who run around pouring scorn on this unfortunate group of people in TN. For every SVs there are a 100 other Patriotic Tambrams who feel otherwise. That you belong to this group does not allow you to find a non-existent link and show them in poor light.

It is also OT at best.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Feb 2010 21:31

Folks, my suggestion would be Namitha (Namitha Kapoor)!.. the stealthy Rambha, you know?

Just look at those lovely bulges on top of the two exhaust trailing down.. still non stealthy yet and quite capable of hiding it.

http://withfriendship.com/user/images/3 ... kapoor.jpg

/OT. admin please edit

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 04 Feb 2010 23:33

Why does it has to has a name of an actress? And what's this obsession with fat(I am sorry to hurt feelings but its true) actresses? Why not something that actually represents what it is. F-22 is called Raptor, not Ellen Moore, and F-16 is called Fighting Falcon, not Jennifer.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Feb 2010 23:50

Akshut, you are getting formal. Rambha is not know outside BR. These names are BRite minded, and for discussions here onleeee.

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 04 Feb 2010 23:54

Akshut wrote:Why does it has to has a name of an actress?

ok...Akshut...don't take it wrong..and if it hurts your privacy...I am offering you my sincere apologies....! But, if you are not that good with the names of actress........give a name of your choice (girl friend?

?). I will be second to vote that....!

Anyhow...as of now name of my choice would be KATRINA.

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 05 Feb 2010 00:12

Ohk!! Ithought you guys are discussing what it's official name should name should be like LCA's Tejas. Apology!! Ya ya Samitha or Katrina, anything's good.